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Britain Has Passed the 'Most Extreme Surveillance Law Ever Passed in a Democracy' (zdnet.com)

Zack Whittaker, reporting for ZDNet: The UK has just passed a massive expansion in surveillance powers, which critics have called "terrifying" and "dangerous." The new law, dubbed the "snoopers' charter," was introduced by then-home secretary Theresa May in 2012, and took two attempts to get passed into law following breakdowns in the previous coalition government. Four years and a general election later -- May is now prime minister -- the bill was finalized and passed on Wednesday by both parliamentary houses. Civil liberties groups have long criticized the bill, with some arguing that the law will let the UK government "document everything we do online." It's no wonder, because it basically does. The law will force internet providers to record every internet customer's top-level web history in real-time for up to a year, which can be accessed by numerous government departments; force companies to decrypt data on demand -- though the government has never been that clear on exactly how it forces foreign firms to do that that; and even disclose any new security features in products before they launch. Not only that, the law also gives the intelligence agencies the power to hack into computers and devices of citizens (known as equipment interference), although some protected professions -- such as journalists and medical staff -- are layered with marginally better protections. In other words, it's the "most extreme surveillance law ever passed in a democracy," according to Jim Killock, director of the Open Rights Group.

359 comments

  1. Truly despicable by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Truly despicable! I understand WHY they're doing it, but it's still wrong.

    The only good thing is, at least they're letting you know ahead of time they're violating your privacy. (not that that is much of a prize).

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 0, Troll

      I don't pretend to like privacy violations any more than you do, but they do it b'cos they have to! Unlimited Muslim immigration to UK over the decades to a point where it even takes in Muslims that countries like Jordan or Lebanon won't accept has made the Ummah Kalifate so unsafe that they either have to spy on everybody, or risk a few more 7/7's and risk not just the UKIP, but the BNP coming to power.

      If they simply let everyone who wanted to leave and go join ISIS do it, and just block them from returning, they'd be so much better off

    2. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Each generation must learn for themselves who actually holds power (not you), and how it actually works (they get what they want, and only give you what you want to the extent that they must in order to get what they want).

    3. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Wow, I had no idea. Frankly, neither did anyone else actually paying attention. Does twisting logic to such an extreme extent to fuel this type of conspiracy theorizing make your brain hurt?

    4. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      So.....in order to keep others from making your country into a totalitarian state ruled by fear, you make your country a totalitarian state ruled by fear. Just wanted to make sure I understood you correctly.

      Of course, the irony seems to be lost on you that most of the immigrants are coming from places that were under British protection of not outright British control at one time or another in the last 100 years. Karma can be a real bitch, huh?

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    5. Re:Truly despicable by frovingslosh · · Score: 4, Funny

      British amateurs think that a government needs the law on their side to spy on its citizens.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    6. Re:Truly despicable by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anyone in the UK should take steps to protect themselves. One of the most effective techniques is to use a VPN service. They are cheap, a basic but good one like Mullvad one can be had for under a fiver. The VPN service encrypts and routes traffic out of the country, preventing your ISP from logging your web history, emails, app use and the like.

      Beyond that, avoid services based in the UK as they are vulnerable. Use services from other countries.

      While GCHQ can most likely decrypt or bypass these protections, it requires considerable effort and thus prevents bulk data collection and storage.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Truly despicable by houghi · · Score: 2

      If people don't like it, they could go to a higher court, like Strassbourg. Oh, wait ...

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    8. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your answer to YOUR fear is that everyone's rights should be violated? Don't even pretend that this is about 'them' or 'they', this is about you. There can be no excuse or 'understanding' for such a wide abuse of power, end of story. Thanks for playing but seriously you can leave now, take whatever way out you feel is best.

      The answer to your fear is not to allow it to consume you, it is to get out and speak up for your rights, vote, protest, march, do whatever you have to peacefully to bring about the proper change in the world. And yes, that may mean you even have to learn to protect yourself when necessary.

      Government is the entirely WRONG answer to 'who can help us ensure our freedom'.

    9. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, the way the world is going at the moment, makes me think that Latin/South America, in spite of all its woes, is the only sane region on Earth. We are actually moving toward more open societies, with more democracy. In fact, a civil war has just ended in one the nations down here. Where else you are seeing things like these?

      Back in the day, not even in my wildest dreams I would embrace the notion that Latin America would be the last bastion of freedom. Strange century, strange world.

    10. Re:Truly despicable by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So there isn't a problem of mass bombings and violence? And is this violence coming from a select group of people? And are we importing more people who have no respect for free speech (blasphemy laws) and no tolerance for any opinion that counters their book?

      Now, if you then make the inane comparison of Christian fundamentalists who go tsk, tsk and who fight with the ballot box (as opposed to the cartridge box) then you are the one twisting logic.

      The simplest solution is to say clearly that freedom of expression trumps blasphemy laws. People can say whatever they want about a religion - even if i's considered blasphemous by adherents of that religion.

      And violence, and threat of violence are not acceptable with prison or deportation (if non-citizen) as punishments.

      You don't want a draconian surveillance state? Good. Now stand up for freedom of speech and thought and stop trying so hard to not offend.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    11. Re: Truly despicable by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      It hasn't been unlimited.

    12. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Once the real British regain control of their borders and kick out the terrorists and others who daily engage in an active assault on British laws and culture, then they can afford to ease up on domestic spying.

      This is what delusion looks like on the internet.

    13. Re:Truly despicable by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      So basic human rights like simple privacy should be ended because of possible terrorists?

      Fuck you, if you are so afraid of life, please go die now.

    14. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Once the real British regain control of their borders and kick out the terrorists and others who daily engage in an active assault on British laws and culture, then they can afford to ease up on domestic spying.

      Sure, sure. Because it happens all the time in this world. Have you heard of Cincinnatus? Well, they don't make them anymore, son.

    15. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once the real British regain control of their borders and kick out the terrorists

      Perhaps you are "The One True Scotsman"?

      (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)

    16. Re: Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing we have you racists, waving your confederate flags and complaining about the first amendment, to warn us!

      Its almost like you hate America.

    17. Re:Truly despicable by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      "Let's fight fascism in the US and UK with more fascism....what could go wrong?"

    18. Re:Truly despicable by grahamsz · · Score: 2

      I would suggest making sure it's a VPN with a certificate you can verify through an independent channel. It'd be easy for GHCQ to intercept a PPTP vpn channel and implement a MITM attack. OpenVPN would be a lot more effort.

    19. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't they just kill the terrorists and let everyone keep their privacy. It's not like they don't know who they are.

    20. Re:Truly despicable by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1

      I don't pretend to like privacy violations any more than you do, but they do it b'cos they have to! Unlimited Muslim immigration to UK

      The UK does not have "unlimited Muslim immigration."
      Where the heck did you get that from? They have immigration laws just like pretty much every other country.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    21. Re:Truly despicable by bigbang137 · · Score: 1

      There are lots of gotchas when using a VPN, e.g. DNS leak. But yes, it's still better than using none.

    22. Re:Truly despicable by 91degrees · · Score: 5, Informative

      So there isn't a problem of mass bombings and violence?

      No. there isn't.

      And is this violence coming from a select group of people?

      I believe people with strong anti-muslim views tend to be disproportionately represented.

      The simplest solution is to say clearly that freedom of expression trumps blasphemy laws. People can say whatever they want about a religion - even if i's considered blasphemous by adherents of that religion.

      Yes. Fortunately blasphemy laws were abolished 8 years ago.

      And violence, and threat of violence are not acceptable with prison or deportation (if non-citizen) as punishments.

      I believe this is the case.

    23. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not just "a select group of people", it's also the far right nutjobs like this. Personally I condemn all extremists, rather than a large group that contains extremists that another group of equally ugly extremists don't like due to their own disgusting twisted worldview.

    24. Re:Truly despicable by AC-x · · Score: 2

      So there isn't a problem of mass bombings and violence? And is this violence coming from a select group of people?

      When was the last time there was a mass bombing or mass violence in the UK?

    25. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also have to keep an eye on the far right murdering nutjobs.

    26. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only good thing is, at least they're letting you know ahead of time they're violating your privacy

      Yep. At least they are more honest than the US government who do the exact same thing but try to hide it from you.

    27. Re:Truly despicable by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You know, the way the world is going at the moment, makes me think that Latin/South America, in spite of all its woes, is the only sane region on Earth. We are actually moving toward more open societies, with more democracy. In fact, a civil war has just ended in one the nations down here. Where else you are seeing things like these?

      Back in the day, not even in my wildest dreams I would embrace the notion that Latin America would be the last bastion of freedom. Strange century, strange world.

      Think again. Right now, Brazil, the largest country in Latin America is being literally plundered by local criminals sponsored by the US and they are competing against each other to see who destroys the country first and delivers anything of value to US corporations. Democracy in Brazil was always a fantasy, now this fantasy has been torn and we are moving towards yet another dictatorship. Better you seek democracy elsewhere.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    28. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really should take a longer look in the mirror.

      Your racism and ignorance are really fucking ugly.

    29. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, even if you ask nicely, you apparently can't help but be a blatantly obvious racist. No need to call you one, it just kinda comes through like the odour of soiled underwear.

    30. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When was the last time there was a mass bombing or mass violence in the UK?

      Irish or Islamic?

    31. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you shouldn't ask people to die, because it shows that you really don't give a shit about basic human rights.

    32. Re:Truly despicable by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As the UK goes, so goes America.

      We have our Islamophobia and immigration fears as a punching bag to take out our frustration at essentially being an out-of-work rust belt in favour of a service economy.

      As with Brexit, we will set the house on fire so we won't be bored.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    33. Re: Truly despicable by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      If it was unlimited then why do people need to hide in lorries? Surely they just need to turn up at Dover and claim their free council house.

    34. Re: Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is what retards actually believe.

    35. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What does what the previous British monarchy of hundreds of years ago during the age of colonization and exploration have to do with letting in some of the worst and most uncivilized and hostile people on the planet?

      I will just leave these links here. Feel free to peruse at your leisure.

      Nor will you or any other leftist hypocritical clown

      Not too many liberals happen to attend small, rural, Baptist affiliated universities such as the one I attended (weekly chapel attendance was all but mandatory even). Of course, you just demonstrated a common tactic that many on the right are starting to employ: decry anyone who has an education-particularly in science or history- or doesn't toe the increasingly radicalized party line as a "leftist", as if that is supposed to be some kind of insult. I figure if the alt-right hates me and the alt-left hates me then I must be doing something right. The truth is I am something of a centrist in that I am pro limited government (which includes the government leaving abortion and gay marriage alone as it has no right controlling those things, if you or your religion don't like it the government isn't forcing you to have one yourself) and reasonable checks on firearm ownership such as mandatory safety, legal, and competency training (and I own multiple firearms, some of which are illegal to own in certain states).

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    36. Re:Truly despicable by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      I can also understand why they're doing it. It's the response of the plutocrats to the threat as formulated by Nick Hanauer. It's about avoiding the backlash of runaway inequality.

      And if it's not entirely their response, it will soon be.

    37. Re:Truly despicable by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 0

      Oh... Did I hurt your delicate world of fantasy, monkey? Go back to Facebook, this place for the adults ;-)

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    38. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. As if crime & politics don't have reflections on each other.

      Now you're bashing both Brazil and the US. I hope the NSA takes note of your activity, asshole.

      The Trumpies are even stupider than imagined.

    39. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      PPTP is just wrong for more reasons. Never use it.

    40. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      As the UK goes, so goes America.

      That's what scares me. If Brexit had happened 2-3 years ago and Article 50 triggered, I feel like the presidential election would have gone a lot differently. People in the US saw Britain "stick it to the establish" and thought "let's go get us some of that", but haven't had the chance to see the likely fallout of when Britain (not the UK, as if Article 50 is ever triggered Scotland will most likely hold, and accept, another referendum on independence) does pull out of the EU. However, the EU is holding more and more firm on a hard Brexit (when the pro-Brexit crowd campaigned on a soft exit negotiating from a position of strength, which was an impossible promise) it is looking less and less likely that Article 50 ever even will be triggered, in which case nothing happens. Worst case is Britain leaves the EU, enters a recession, and is forced to accept EU terms (including free movement of people) in order to maintain trade with EU member states. Had Americans had time to see any of these outcomes I sincerely doubt we would have had the type of protest election we had this year.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    41. Re:Truly despicable by MightyDrunken · · Score: 1

      So.....in order to keep others from making your country into a totalitarian state ruled by fear, you make your country a totalitarian state ruled by fear.

      If you can't beat them, join them! Thanks May and team.

    42. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      So they do the only other thing available to them - surveil everyone! Not ideal, but sure beats just letting the next Bataclan attack happen in the UK

      The irony is that mass surveillance will actually make detecting and stopping attacks much harder as people intent on doing harm will have to act independently, instead of conspiracies involving 5, 10, 20 people (more opportunity to uncover the plot). So while the severity of attacks might go down (hard for 1 guy to perpetrate high casualty attacks without captive targets (see the Pulse shootings or the truck rampage in France as exceptions), you will probably see a higher frequency overall in the number of attacks. It just might be 2 or 3 killed instead of 20-30.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    43. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      then they can spy on me as well. I don't mind, since I'm not trying to overthrow any government.

      Neither are about 99.9999% of the Muslims in Britain.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    44. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would kill them but apparently Hillary Clinton needs to use them from time to time for spreading some terror of her own... like she did in Libya. Unless of course this is another one of those lies that Facebook helped proliferate to get Donald Trump behind the wheel.

      Captcha: unrest.

    45. Re:Truly despicable by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      Personally I appreciate the 'heads up' when my nether regions are about to be invaded.

      Anyone for some sausage with their tea?

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    46. Re: Truly despicable by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      According to the last census 67.44% of Bradford residents are white. Are they Muslims as well?

    47. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean that thing she was cleared of?

      Even Fox News can't pin anything on her, even while flinging lots of shit.

      http://www.foxnews.com/politic...

    48. Re:Truly despicable by khallow · · Score: 1

      Once the real British regain control of their borders and kick out the terrorists and others who daily engage in an active assault on British laws and culture, then they can afford to ease up on domestic spying.

      They could afford to now, let us note. They won't ease up because fighting terrorism isn't the point of domestic spying. Pursuit of power is.

    49. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islam isn't a race, you dire twit.

    50. Re:Truly despicable by fnj · · Score: 1

      They can also just corrupt and subvert the operators of the VPN. Or the VPN you choose may be a covert operation from the git-go. The only thoughts that are truly guaranteed to remain secret are those which are never communicated outside of one's own brain (how confident are you that you never talk in your sleep?).

    51. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Truly despicable! I understand WHY they're doing it, but it's still wrong.

      Are you suggesting that "because they can" is somehow an acceptable reason?

    52. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's next? Dentistry?

    53. Re: Truly despicable by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      You, sir, are an idiot. I too am not afraid of the authorities spying on me. What I am afraid of is the security services spying on politicians and using the information to blackmail them.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    54. Re:Truly despicable by fnj · · Score: 0

      Neither are about 99.9999% of the Muslims in Britain.

      Only 1 in one million UK Muslims are involved in subversion, eh? You really believe that only 3 of the 2,706,066 Muslims in the UK (2011) are involved? Go meddle your delusion somewhere else.

    55. Re:Truly despicable by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's the BS excuse they used for Brexit. Muslims enter other parts of the EU and because the UK is part of the EU there is unchecked migration between member countries. Hence "unlimited Muslim migration". It's all fear mongering and if people took two seconds to actually think about things they would see it for crap argument that it is.

      But the problem is that people have stopped thinking and that is why we have all of these articles now talking about how we need to stop fake news. We are past peak civilization and now every Onion story needs to come with a warning stating that it's a Fake News story.

    56. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Why don't they just kill the terrorists and let everyone keep their privacy. It's not like they don't know who they are.

      B'cos that would be Islamophobic

    57. Re: Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was it Donald Trump?

    58. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      The British people need to grow a set and first, kill the tyrants in the government running the place into the ground and stomping on your very humanity, and then drive out or kill the Muslims.

      C'mon, Brits! Raid the military/police armories, grab some bleeding weapons, and start taking Britain back for Brits! Hang the bloody bastards on Whitehall, in 10 Downing, and Parliament! Drag those gestapo fucks out of GCHQ, the Met, MI5/6, and hang them from lamp posts as a warning to the next bastards who think they want to abuse the British people. I promise there will be many, many Americans who will support and aid you.

      Clearly the contradiction of advocating for a genocide while calling those you don't like as Nazis is lost on you.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    59. Re:Truly despicable by LQ · · Score: 1

      then they can spy on me as well. I don't mind, since I'm not trying to overthrow any government.

      Neither are about 99.9999% of the Muslims in Britain.

      Probably more like 99.99% We are many, they are few but how do you catch those bad apples?

    60. Re: Truly despicable by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      Is it anything like Dearborn, MI in the US?

    61. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Probably more like 99.99% We are many, they are few but how do you catch those bad apples?

      Police work. Talk to people. Adopt policies that encourage assimilation and understanding instead of radicalization and separation (on both sides). Teach people to believe they are British first and Muslim second. Show people that when they attack Britain they are only attacking themselves. Even then it's impossible to catch all of them, but that's the trade off you have to make if you want to live in a free state. You're still more likely to die by getting hit by a plane while walking down your street than getting killed by a terrorist, whether they are a Muslim terrorist, an Irish extremist, or a psychotic Pastafarian trying to strangle you with a wet noodle.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    62. Re: Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy shit.
      Trumpies are still getting trolled by fake news, even after the election!

      Try verifying. Anything.

      PS if you paste the link to the National Review article, I'll paste the disclaimer that says it's a better version of the onion and call you even more ignorant

    63. Re:Truly despicable by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      LOL. As if crime & politics don't have reflections on each other.

      Now you're bashing both Brazil and the US. I hope the NSA takes note of your activity, asshole.

      The Trumpies are even stupider than imagined.

      Funny you say that... He's exactly the brazilian version of a Trump voter: Stupid, (very) far right-wing and who considers as mortal enemy everyone who does not think exacty like him.

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    64. Re:Truly despicable by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      People are going to be disappointed when the realize that unless they build a wall along the Irish and Scottish borders, they aren't going to stop immigration or relatively free movement.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    65. Re:Truly despicable by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      I don't know. That doesn't sound very fun. Harassing people because of their ethnicity or religion and inciting violence is much more fun and satisfying on a primitive level. One could almost say it satisfies the lizard part of the brain.

      Here I was worried about a top-down invasion from Thuban when it looks like what the lizard people are actually doing is turning humans into lizards!

    66. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 0

      What does either of the above 2 events - both of which happened >50 years ago - have to do w/ immigration to the UK? The creation of Israel did not displace the Arabs, except for those who left on their own to become refugees in other Arab countries, not UK. The creation of India and Pakistan caused a carnage during the movement of Hindus from the Pakistans to India, but did nothing to cause major migration to the UK. So how are those 2 events relevant at all here?

    67. Re:Truly despicable by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      Yes. Fortunately blasphemy laws were abolished 8 years ago.

      Bull$h!t.

      Islam still considers blasphemy laws to be punishable by death.
      Islam still kills people for leaving their religion.

      All 4 main schools of jurisprudence agrees on those points. Adherents to the religion agree to it.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    68. Re: Truly despicable by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Some, yes.

    69. Re: Truly despicable by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      My apologies. I should clarify. According to Wikipedia, Dearborn is 89% white. They also have a summary of the hullabaloo. Long story short some Christian assholes were being Christian assholes as Christians are wont to be and harassing people at an Arab festival. The thing escalated and before you know it, Christian assholes weren't just harassing Muslims and Arabs but Catholics too!

      (According to most Christians in Michigan, Catholics are devil worshipers and idolators who should be killed. They're just too cowardly to actually kill any so instead they like to use harassment.)

      And yes, somehow this ballooned into a fake news article about Dearborn, MI having Sharia law. I assume "Londonistan" is about the same horse shit.

    70. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Brexit is certainly controversial, but I think a lot of what you're suggesting there is unrealistic. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing presumably depends on which side of the debate you come down on.

      There is little evidence of appetite for another independence referendum in Scotland, and little evidence that if one were held then it would give a different result to last time. I know polling data is not exactly held in high regard right now, but on any recent polls from the main sources, it hasn't even been close.

      It's also highly unlikely that the government won't trigger Article 50, probably as close as it can to Theresa May's stated target of March next year given the limitations caused by legal challenge. That legal mess will sort itself out, and sooner or later things will get to a vote in Parliament, at which point a fairly large majority of MPs would be risking their positions by not supporting moves to leave against the wishes of their constituents. We might see three line whips in the Commons and even the invocation of the Parliament Acts to overcome objections in the Lords, and that might delay things up to a point, but the May administration basically loses all credibility if it can't push this one through now.

      Hard or soft Brexit is the big real question today, and this is complicated by the fact that we know neither how reasonable the EU will be in any future negotiations nor why those who voted to leave actually did so (or anything that those who voted to remain accepted but reluctantly, for that matter). The current EU leadership seem to be going out of their way to be unconstructive so far, but that may change with time and/or the results of major elections in other EU member states next year. And a lot of leave voters might prefer a harder Brexit anyway, since as you point out there's no realistic prospect of remaining a member of the single market but also achieving some of the major goals of leaving such as control of immigration or the ability to make deals with other trading partners independently.

      So all in all, I doubt the US result would have been heavily influenced against Trump even if the UK had been doing all this a bit earlier. I suspect the greatest fear in the minds of many establishment figures, in the US and particularly in the EU, is that these anti-establishment movements will win and then not fail horribly, thus demonstrating that the establishment and maintaining status quo isn't actually as essential as they would like the public to think. So far in the UK there's a lot of doom-saying and some real and significant problems caused by the uncertainty alone, but there's also relatively little sign of the sky falling now or being likely to fall catastrophically even when Brexit actually happens. Only time will tell whether the leavers were right.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    71. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly the contradiction of advocating for a genocide while calling those you don't like as Nazis is lost on you.

      Genocide? Bullshit! Allow the Muslims the choice to leave peacefully (you know they won't). Those who refuse will then be forced to leave or be killed if they resist with violence. Defending oneself and one's nation from an invading force hellbent on destroying you is the farthest thing from "racism" there is.

      But tell yourselves whatever allows you milquetoast pansies to sleep at night, right? If you can't stand up for yourselves you deserve all the totalitarian horrors the human mind can dream up, and good riddance to bad rubbish! The world could do with far fewer cowards.

      Strat

    72. Re:Truly despicable by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      The Trumpies are even stupider than imagined.

      I mean you might be right, but given that you believe in perpetual motion machines, you're in no position to be calling people stupid!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    73. Re:Truly despicable by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      You don't want a draconian surveillance state? Good. Now stand up for freedom of speech and thought and stop trying so hard to not offend.

      There isn't free speech in the UK.

    74. Re:Truly despicable by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      true :-(

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    75. Re: Truly despicable by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      That's a legitimate and significant concern, certainly. While there is scope for such deliberate abuse and I agree we should always be cautious there, I suspect the greater risk in the real world is of damage caused either through negligence or not being sufficiently private and secure against third parties.

      Government authorities are ultimately real people, and I don't doubt that most working in the police and security services are sincerely trying to do the right thing. However, they're also only human, and making a mistake with adverse consequences for the victim is all too conceivable here.

      Also, one of the worst parts of this law is going to create possibly the most comprehensive blackmail database in the history of the world, and it's going to be held by non-government organisations whose priority is their commercial interests. We're going to be one capable hacker away from millions of people having their privacy and security compromised.

      And of course, there is the perennial risk of scope creep. Once you've got a database of who's visited which sites, with the implicit assumption that an IP address and visiting a site is evidence of a specific individual being interested in whatever that site is for, it's not exactly a big jump to things like mass prosecutions over alleged copyright infringement by big media groups, or insurance and other financial services companies coming to some understanding with the government over profiling their customers.

      Unfortunately, there is so little public awareness of what's going on here -- it's barely been reported in the press, with all the Brexit and Trump news filling the front pages lately -- that something very bad will probably have to happen to lots of people before we collectively wake up. And in the meantime, very bad things will probably be happening very quietly to a few people, and what is going to protect them?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    76. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Not just that, Muslims believe that their blasphemy laws apply to everyone, not just themselves. For instance, it's considered blasphemous to draw Mohammed. Now, that may apply to them, but for those of us who are not Muslim, it doesn't apply. But that's not what they believe, which is why they issue death threats to anybody who dares draw Mohammed

    77. Re:Truly despicable by clonehappy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The "alt-right" is a figure of the imagination of the "alt-left". There are nothing but radicals on both sides, let's call them for what they are.

      There have always been radical leftists as well as right-wing radicals, I'm just not sure where we skewed into the alternate dimension where radical leftism is so capable of browbeating the mainstream centrists into submission. I see the SJW-left as being as dangerous and unhinged as the violent religious right. Say that, however, and you're a "Nazi". When I tell folks it's not cool to flippantly call people Nazis, I get called a Nazi.

      The projection is so strong on the left, that it just continually alienates centrists and pushes them FARTHER to the right! Then we end up with what we have today, you're either a "leftist" or a "Nazi". Both are insulting to me, because I am neither, and I surely don't want to be called either one. Heated discussions ensue, and people walk away even more polarized than they started out. I think it's high time to walk away from all of it, and let the pieces fall where they may. Enjoy life while you still can and don't worry about "leftists and Nazis".

    78. Re:Truly despicable by Fragnet · · Score: 0

      The absence of attacks isn't evidence of the absence of plots, it could also be evidence of the effectiveness of UK security services in preventing attacks, which of course includes all of the machinery associated with detection of said plots.

      With respect to civil liberties, I would say that in this country you don't have to carry an ID card around with you, unlike every other country in Europe.

    79. Re:Truly despicable by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Informative

      What does either of the above 2 events - both of which happened >50 years ago - have to do w/ immigration to the UK? The creation of Israel did not displace the Arabs, except for those who left on their own to become refugees in other Arab countries, not UK. The creation of India and Pakistan caused a carnage during the movement of Hindus from the Pakistans to India, but did nothing to cause major migration to the UK. So how are those 2 events relevant at all here?

      The British, through the Balfour Declaration/the carving up of the Middle East along with the French following WWI and the partition of India essentially laid the groundwork for the present conditions in those countries, leading to fairly significant exoduses. Due to lingering linguistic and cultural familiarity, the logical place for most of these immigrants/refugees is England. Nothing we do today happens in a vacuum.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    80. Re: Truly despicable by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      It's not complete bullshit as there are kids running off to join ISIS but as usual with the far end of either side of the political spectrum it's blown completely out of proportion. The uncontrolled immigration lie is particularly insidious. The amount of people that actually get into this country is tiny compared to those that want to come.

    81. Re:Truly despicable by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      I thought I left you in kindergarten before leaving... Would you please go back there and let the adults talk?

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    82. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey fuckwit, not in Brittan, which is what's being discussed.

      What the fuck is wrong with you?

    83. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, the irony seems to be lost on you that most of the immigrants are coming from places that were under British protection of not outright British control at one time or another in the last 100 years. Karma can be a real bitch, huh?

      You let us know when those Syrians, Algerians, and Afghans start bringing the tools and resources to improve British society. If we're talking about karma, it's supposed to be equal.

    84. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      How is it a crap argument? Say there are many of those Syrian refugees (to pull an example out of a Muslim skullcap) currently in Germany who want to go to England. They have passes that allow them to move freely within the EU. So using that, what is there to stop them from going from Calais to Dover (not counting Brexit, which in any case is yet to kick in).

      Also, since the 70s, there had been a steady stream of immigrants from mainly Pakistan and Bangladesh to the UK. Those people lived w/o assimilating, just like North African Muslims in France, Netherlands and other parts of Northern Europe, and today, it's their kids who are behind much of the Jihadist activity there. So that's what I was referring to - it's not just the open borders post Maastricht, but rather, decades of immigration from countries of people who never had any intentions of becoming Brits.

    85. Re: Truly despicable by Faluzeer · · Score: 2

      Bradford is not 100% Muslim, nor is it even close to that. I actually live in Bradford, I do not need to read up on the subject to know that you are wrong on your points about unlimited immigration and Bradford's population. It should also be noted that Bradford is a city, and not a town.

    86. Re:Truly despicable by Tharkkun · · Score: 1

      Truly despicable! I understand WHY they're doing it, but it's still wrong.

      The only good thing is, at least they're letting you know ahead of time they're violating your privacy. (not that that is much of a prize).

      They've been doing this for years. This just makes it legal.

    87. Re:Truly despicable by Tharkkun · · Score: 1

      So there isn't a problem of mass bombings and violence? And is this violence coming from a select group of people?

      When was the last time there was a mass bombing or mass violence in the UK?

      Well they all but banned any kind of firearm so that eliminates the mass violence. There was a bombing a few years ago.

    88. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I understand WHY they're doing it,

      I don't. They didn't do it to fight the Nazis, they didn't need it for the IRA.

      They need it now because "of teh childhruns".

    89. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's to legitimise what GCHQ has just been given a slap on the wrist for doing illegally. Only the difference now is that they get anyone defined as an "Internet service provider" (any Internet-connected service with over 1000 users) to store the data themselves until requested by everyone from the intelligence services, to the police, to local councils, or bored civil servants. Because it's not as if companies like TalkTalk have had any problems with personal data being stolen. We'll gloss over the fact the government hasn't actually defined what data they want stored (it's okay it's "just metadata"), and they have a luxurious budget of £120 million to compensate companies for storage costs (down from a projected £2 billion)

      Our alleged official opposition party were so outraged and appalled by the legislation, that they voted for it. In order to stop it. You couldn't make it up.

    90. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      GP's statement is territory neutral: Muslims anywhere and all over the world believe that any violations of Islamic blasphemy laws by anyone, anywhere should be subject to their punishments. Like those violent demonstrations that happened in the UK during the time of those Danish cartoons at Jylands Posten

    91. Re:Truly despicable by unixisc · · Score: 1

      As far as the division b/w the Brits & the French, I partly agree w/ you, but they still have had 70+ years to undo that if they wanted things differently. Indeed, they did experiment w/ concepts like the 'United Arab Republics' of formerly British Egypt and formerly French Syria in the 60s, and there's nothing even today preventing people from spilling into each other's countries. Where I agree is that those borders shouldn't have been the basis of preserving the Iraq of today the way it was, instead of partitioning it along ethnic lines.

      Also, partition of India was a one time event as far as refugees went, and all the displaced refugees settled in one of the 2 countries. All Hindus fleeing Pakistan fled to India, and in the 90s, all Kashmiri Hindus fleeing Kashmir resettled in India. Not too many of those moved to Western countries. They saw themselves as Indians, so relocated within the country, adapting the state to which they moved. Only ones who moved to the West were those who wanted to become Brits or Americans or whatever, not to create new Indian enclaves.

      So regardless of what European countries did in the 19th and first half of the 20th centuries, none of them owe people from their former colonies citizenship of their countries. The most they should accept are those who want to 'convert to' becoming British, or French, or Italian or whatever

    92. Re:Truly despicable by 91degrees · · Score: 2

      And any attempt to impose those law in the UK would result in those trying to impose the laws being arrested.

      You realise that the UK isn't a Sharia country right? and whatever the tabloids tell you, isn't going to be one any time soon.

    93. Re:Truly despicable by Computershack · · Score: 2

      When was the last time there was a mass bombing or mass violence in the UK?

      The American funded IRA ran a 20 odd year bombing campaign in mainland Britain that only ended in the late 1990s. Then there were the 7/7 bombings in London on 7th July 2005 by Islamic Terrorists who blew up buses and tube trains..

      --
      I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    94. Re:Truly despicable by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      It sickens me that Britain passed the most extreme surveillance law ever.

      America is supposed to be number 1 at everything. C'mon congress, get on the ball! Don't let America be out done by Britain.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    95. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably nothing, except achieving the UKs goals. Why have a government at all, if it's just going to enforce a viewpoint?

    96. Re:Truly despicable by helsinki92 · · Score: 2

      The carving up of those countries the way they were was intentional. The British were able to ensure that revolution never took place because the populace were too busy fighting each other based on their ethnic lines.

    97. Re:Truly despicable by coastwalker · · Score: 2

      It is rather amusing to reflect that it is low IQ people who have swallowed the propaganda in the cheap newspapers about Islamic terrorists who are likely to be the first to be fucked by the widespread use of internet surveillance data by random state agencies and private companies. The dragnet will catch anyone: mouthing off with hate speech, using live streaming video services (twitch) without a BBC license, Living with a partner whilst claiming benefits pretending to be single, transferring a vehicle to a family member without renewing the road tax, caught speeding from cell phone gps data, looking at banned pictures, tax fraud, higher insurance costs, difficulty in borrowing money, refusal to provide health care by health providers.

      These morons have no idea what opening up all internet data to random fine collecting agencies is going to do. Serves them right really.

      --
      Facts are history now plebs have politics for religion on social media.
    98. Re:Truly despicable by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      If by "talk", you mean wax lyrical about how perpetual motion machines exist because they don't understand physics, then sure.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    99. Re:Truly despicable by lgw · · Score: 1

      Police work. Talk to people. Adopt policies that encourage assimilation and understanding instead of radicalization and separation (on both sides). Teach people to believe they are British first and Muslim second. Show people that when they attack Britain they are only attacking themselves. Even then it's impossible to catch all of them, but that's the trade off you have to make if you want to live in a free state. You're still more likely to die by getting hit by a plane while walking down your street than getting killed by a terrorist, whether they are a Muslim terrorist, an Irish extremist, or a psychotic Pastafarian trying to strangle you with a wet noodle.

      What's this intelligent and coherent post doing on Slashdot? Did you post on the wrong forum by mistake?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    100. Re:Truly despicable by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 2

      Once again, the truth escapes the conspiracy nutcases.
      We aren't talking about the Sharia law that does NOT exist in Britain,, so why are you playing strawman?

    101. Re: Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it didn't come out of nowhere - it came out of either the author's, or her publisher's, desire to sell books.

      Seriously, you think the existence of a word is evidence of the existence of the thing the word denotes, I have a unicorn to sell you.

    102. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      , decades of immigration from countries of people who never had any intentions of becoming Brits.

      Mate, you're a racist and you don't even know it.

      If someone moved to the UK in the 1970s and has been living here ever since, and has raised a family, they're British, regardless of whether they dress differently from you, or speak a different language from you, or eat different food from you.

    103. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Catholic or Protestant? African or European? Laden or unladen?

      Cream in your coffee? Not lately...

    104. Re:Truly despicable by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

      I don't mind, since I'm not trying to overthrow any government.

      I do mind, and not just because I totally want to overthrow the government (as have a lot of other people over history, rightfully—and succeeded).

      I might or might not be a Muslim. Though the chances are I'm not.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    105. Re:Truly despicable by AC-x · · Score: 1

      The absence of attacks

      So the answer to "So there isn't a problem of mass bombings and violence?" is "no there isn't" then?

    106. Re:Truly despicable by AC-x · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So that would make the last "mass bombings and violence" over 10 years ago, so it would seem the answer to that question is that mass bombings and violence aren't a problem in the UK, and so these security laws are not only morally wrong but completely unnecessary too.

    107. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't help that in every online community against "social justice" there are either actual wackjob nazis or sophisticated disinformation campaigns designed to smear the community with the nazi association. I've joined and left several facebook groups against cultural marxism, destruction of classical architecture and so on: Joined because I support their goals and then left because of the actual/sockpuppet nazis.

      It's like, can't a man be against the racism and bigotry of International Socialism and Marxism, while at the same time be against the racism and bigotry of National Socialism and Fascism?

    108. Re:Truly despicable by mollymoo · · Score: 1

      EEA freedom of movement only applies to EEA nationals. Countries don't grant citizenship to asylum seekers, at least not until they've been there for quite some time. So, no, all the recently arrived Syrian refugees granted asylum in Germany are not allowed into the UK - unless they get a visa or citizenship of a EEA country.

      --
      Chernobyl 'not a wildlife haven' - BBC News
    109. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even worst, no wall is going to stop immigration
      After brexit Britain is starving for business deals with other countries, Modi told May that if Britain mess with Indians right to enter UK there there was to be trouble, Ms May conceded
      Same way that she conceded on the construction of Hincley Nuclear power plant with the Chinese
      The current position is You want our money, you accept our conditions, who is the empire now...
      Britain is now weaker without the support of the EU and the rest of the world knows it, many have waited very long time for a chance of payback, may you live through interesting times

    110. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, is it even worth pointing out the number of British-born citizens heading in the other direction to fight for ISIS etc? Probably a waste of time.

    111. Re:Truly despicable by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Go bother anybody else, kid...

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    112. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not at all. He is not compelling, coercing, or otherwise forcing death upon them. He's telling them that if they are that afraid, then they should probably stop living. He doesn't specify but phrases like those typically imply suicide. It's completely their choice, which choosing when to die IS one of the basic human rights tenants.

    113. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think they're doing it to catch pedophiles, drug/people smugglers, ISIS, and any other wrong-doers. The problem is that computers are often "infected" with software that makes them do things that the owners of said computers aren't even aware of. So the reason that everyone's upset about this, is simply because it's so one-sided. There are a large number of things in place to catch said wrong-doers, but I don't know of anything that's in place to validate the fact that the computer owner operated the computer to do whatever was illegal.

      If one were so inclined, they could befriend an enemy, bring them gifts, hang out at their house, use their internet, hide a small device in their house that can be used to steadily download and share child porn... Just one example of these efforts to "get those darn ole bad guys" as being completely useless, and only opening more doors for those with devious minds like me.

    114. Re:Truly despicable by infolation · · Score: 1

      TOR and tails

    115. Re: Truly despicable by BlytheBowman · · Score: 0

      We need to stop being afraid of middle east terrorists, and start fighting back- WITH NUKES. They want to massacre a newspaper house full of employees because of a Mohammed cartoon? Fine, then we want to turn a good part of the middle east into one vast sheet of glass. I don't care how "racist" (it is not) or how "unpolitically correct" (whatever) this sounds, a bully is a bully no matter what they try to hide behind. Good thing we were this politicaly correct with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan 75 years ago as we are with the radicals and even not so radicals of the Mi.E, else we would be living in a far worse world than we ate now.

    116. Re: Truly despicable by BlytheBowman · · Score: 0

      . Good thing we were this politicaly correct with Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan 75 years ago as we are with the >>>>>> I ment WERN'T! Arghhh!!!

    117. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, a real "basket" of despicable! That the people of the UK want to protect themselves from extremist islamic terrorism? How terrible!

      Seriously, this law is perfectly suited to protecting the people of the UK, and once we are free from the yoke of control and liberal suicide that the EU immigration nutjobs had tried to impose on us we will be positioned to be one of the safest and securest nations on earth, the envy of the world. This law doesn't violate anyone's "privacy", unless of course what you are saying is that your desire for child pornography or to discuss how to attack UK citizens to impose your insane ideology are somehow an important part of your "privacy". Every honest hard working UK citizen has nothing to worry about here, it is just those people who want to do us harm who should be worried. We are out to get the terrorists and the pedophiles, and there's nothing "despicable" about that.

    118. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the "alt-left" is a figure of the imagination of the "alt-right"!

      Or maybe even a "figment" of the imagination.

    119. Re:Truly despicable by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      I appreciate your thoughtful response and agree in part.

      I do think nationalism and Islamophobia is a world-wide phenomenon.

      We're all seeing problems with Globalism in that economies become diluted over time.

      First, a comment regarding London:

      The international hub is a serious competitor in a larger Europe. Nothing short of Brexit can stop that and the EU is thankful for the market gift as London's influence wanes post-Brexit.

      Next up, America:

      We forget that we exited the Great Depression via World War II.

      We forget that many of the advances made during and after that war were directly influenced by the "brain drain" of countries like Germany.

      Hell, the final solution, the A-bomb, was due to the immigrants from Germany.

      Shortly thereafter, rocketry came from there, as well.

      --

      Your thoughts about comparisons making a difference inter-country, the leavers should have looked to America to predict the outcome of Brexit.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    120. Re:Truly despicable by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So.....in order to keep others from making your country into a totalitarian state ruled by fear, you make your country a totalitarian state ruled by fear.

      If you can't beat them, join them! Thanks May and team.

      I wrote a paper on this bill. Note that it contains limited exceptions for journalists, medical records, etc... but full exceptions for politicians. Well Done, UK!

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    121. Re:Truly despicable by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      The British, through [...] the partition of India essentially laid the groundwork for the present conditions in those countries, leading to fairly significant exoduses.

      No, you self-flagellating piece of excrement. India was divided up purely due to the Muslim portion being violent. Not even Mahatma Ghandi was able to broker peace with the Muslim faction - see this wikipedia article.

      When a peaceful coexistence with a minority is impossible, and a piece of the country is broken off and given to the minority, why is it that decades later the minority still has more violent elements than the parent country?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    122. Re:Truly despicable by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Sure thing! I'll find someone with a brain who doesn't believe in fantasy physics go talk to :)

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    123. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but Australia passed similar mandatory data retention laws providing access to just about any government department that wants the data, about a year ago.

    124. Re:Truly despicable by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Immigrants from Pakistan and Bangladesh is what you Brits absolutely deserve. It was your colony after all.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    125. Re:Truly despicable by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Next you'll be telling us that France hasn't been in a state of emergency for the last year.

    126. Re: Truly despicable by Cederic · · Score: 1

      The daft thing is that if they stopped for a few years in another EU country then yes, they could just get on a train and come to live in the UK.

      Unlimited is a lie in that only 300 million people can come and live here, rather than everyone from the Middle East and Africa too.

    127. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think here we have to invoke the phrase "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" - really, I don't think they were that smart, the theory you're suggesting is just popular myth. If you look at many of the borders they're simply just straight lines, or follow a physical feature like a coastline or river, rather than following historic regional boundaries.

      That's evidence of laziness, rather than malice, if there was intentional malice you'd expect borders that are cut specifically to position populations in the manner you suggest taking advantage of roads, cities, and additional natural features, but we don't see that, we just see someone taking the quickest, most easy option - drawing a straight line with a ruler right down the middle. Compare that to the borders of places like South America, Europe, and Asia where borders were formed with a lot more planning over much longer periods.

    128. Re:Truly despicable by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty relaxed about relatively free movement. It's people immigrating to live in the UK that's causing so many problems.

      We don't have the housing, the infrastructure or the natural resources to support them. The country is too crowded anyway. Lower population would be better.

    129. Re:Truly despicable by Cederic · · Score: 1

      There's this awkward thing getting in the way. We call it justice, and we've been promoting it since 1215.

      Apologies for being civilised.

    130. Re:Truly despicable by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's not immigrants buying houses that is the problem, it's decades of not building enough. Even without any immigration demand would outstrip supply. It's politically difficult to solve because of NIMBYs and people who don't want house prices to fall.

      It would also help if we managed immigration better, like they do in Germany, with geographic distribution.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    131. Re:Truly despicable by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2

      The issue is not: "is there Sharia law in Britain".

      The issue is: are there a growing amount of people willing to use force to implement Sharia Law in Britain. And if so, and if you want to prevent it - what steps do you take?

      I would prefer Liberals start to debate and denounce people who promote blasphemy laws. Too many Muslims act and think like the left-wing's impression of Right-Wing Conservatives but in this case you don't hear a peep.

      If Right-Wing Conservatives argued that the punishments stated in Leviticus should be implemented you would be all up in arms. And I would be there with you.

      But Muslims are promoting the same punishments - and are carrying them out - and the Progressive Left says .... nothing.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    132. Re:Truly despicable by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 1

      Still insisting on that? Really? Are you a cocaine user? Geez!

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    133. Re:Truly despicable by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Still insisting on that? Really?

      Yep. If the EM drive worksm then it goes over unity. If you are prepared to listen, I'll explain why. You seem to not be prepared to listen, and rather invent increasingly bizarre reasons why I'm wrong.

      So, yeah.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    134. Re:Truly despicable by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      The attempt that is being made is in the silencing of opposition due to fear of speaking out.

      Did your newspapers publish the danish cartoons? I don't know. I know that the NYTimes and US papers punked out. Did your papers publish the Charlie cartoons in the aftermath of the killings? I know the US papers punked out.

      Everytime you don't defend freedom of speech, freedom of thought, in the face of adversity you weaken your claim that you are a supporter of free speech.

      What did Hillary Clinton do in the aftermath of Benghazi? She blamed the attacks on spontaneous outrage due to a pathetic movie on the prophet muhammad. Did your papers defend free speech or go tisk, tisk, "such bigotry in the movie." If they did not defend free speech. If you did not defend free speech then your remarks above are worthless.

      When it comes to actual laws being passed you will have backed down again and again. Now is the time to say freedom of speech trumps blasphemy laws. Now is the time to do something.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    135. Re:Truly despicable by rainmouse · · Score: 1

      true :-(

      As well as the obvoius losses, it's arguable there are advantages there to be had with nearly free speech.
      For example if someone slanders you in a newspaper, the story is legally presumed to be false unless proven otherwise; So if you took them to court and they failed to prove the truth of it, they are liable for damages. It's in some ways an extension of innocent until proven guilty.

      I must stress I'm not implying this is better or worse, just expanding a little on the details.

    136. Re:Truly despicable by Spectra72 · · Score: 1

      How many Trump voters do you think could tell you what Brexit was? How many Clinton voters for that matter?

      To think that US voters are influenced by European politics is ignoring what most of the people on Slashdot would characterize as a fault in Americans. Namely, we don't pay attention or care about anyone else.

      So which is it?

    137. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, Indian food practically rescued British cuisine, single-handed! The Brits now love a good curry, dal, vindaloo, masala or briyani, and they are the better for it.

    138. Re:Truly despicable by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      I hate to point this out but I believe there have been something like a dozen attempts since 7/7. I hate to say it but the only reason the UK hasn't been hit again is due to mass surveillance. . Otherwise I totally agree with you.. :)

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    139. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Watch out for DNS leaks !

    140. Re:Truly despicable by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      So your unhappy that Brexit might drain some energy out of the Kleptocracy that drives London? London has become a vast parasitic tick sucking the economic lifeblood out of the rest of the country and making this place a distorted extreme of rich and poor. Banking makes over 50 - 60 billion profit a year - but most of that money is drained out of real companies and the real economy first, a lot of the rest comes from money laundering for foreign tax dodgers and other forms international of dodgy dealing..

      London has been the biggest beneficiary of the EU while the rest of the country has slowly been going down hill economically. That is why most of London voted to stay in but most of the rest of the country voted to leave.. The major thing that really connects it to Trump is that the rest of the UK has been London's rust belt for far too long.

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    141. Re:Truly despicable by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      I'm unhappy that "you're" not more careful.

      Other than that, you said what I said ... except for the bias.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    142. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They can just copy what Australia did and amp it up.

    143. Re: Truly despicable by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      That's not strictly true. They need to claim asylum in France and have it be accepted. Chances are it won't be because they will have travelled through multiple safe countries without claiming there. I don't understand why they think the UK will treat them any better than France though. Maybe the Daily Mail website is widely read in developing nations.

    144. Re:Truly despicable by Fragnet · · Score: 1

      It's like defence spending. People always complain about the cost but never think about the cost if you hadn't spent the money and were defenceless.

    145. Re:Truly despicable by dunkelfalke · · Score: 2

      Bugger me sideways, Brits had an actual cuisine?

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    146. Re:Truly despicable by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Once again, OBJECTION YOUR HONOR! STATEMENT OF FACTS NOT IN EVIDENCE
      Since the proof is not offered, there is no Sharia law in Britain.
      Nice effort to deflect though
      Do try a slice of Humble Pie

    147. Re:Truly despicable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I truly doubt most voters in the US considered Brexit when deciding for whom to cast their vote. There was no need to think that critically about it; most people were probably just sick of the corruption in politics and Trump's message of "drain the swamp" resonated loudly with them. That, in conjunction with the other candidate being painted as the most corrupt candidate to ever run for office, and with Trump not being a career politician, was all that was needed.

    148. Re:Truly despicable by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Is there a fixed definition for "politician?" Could one run for minor office, becoming some manner of "politician" in the process, and be permanently exempt? Temporarily exempt? ...Inquiring minds and all that.

    149. Re:Truly despicable by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Well they all but banned any kind of firearm so that eliminates the mass violence.

      So did France and Australia.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Banning guns has never worked, as there will always be some way for people to get them and use them to hurt others.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  2. Hey, at least it's not the US by captaindomon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nice to have the focus off the United States every once in a while. USA! USA!

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:Hey, at least it's not the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice to have the focus off the United States every once in a while. USA! USA!

      LoL! But to those not seeing your sarcasm, I would say:

      "Oh, don't worry. We'll get the focus back soon enough, by doing much, much worse over here. Probably within the first 100 days."

    2. Re:Hey, at least it's not the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The focus will be back on the US as soon as someone realises You already do all those things with "secret laws" you just haven't been told about yet.

    3. Re:Hey, at least it's not the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because we've been doing this for so long it's not even news.

      Of course, so has the UK, so who knows why this is news at all?

    4. Re:Hey, at least it's not the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From your statement I am guessing you failed your civics classes. The USA is NOT a democracy. It is a Constitutional republic. It has over time moved closer to being a pure democracy, however it is not yet there. The President is not directly elected, as he/she would be in a true democracy, he/she is elected by the electoral college. True democracies fail following a pattern, and since the 17th amendment passed the USA has begun to follow that same pattern.

    5. Re:Hey, at least it's not the US by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      Just wait until January 20th.

    6. Re:Hey, at least it's not the US by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      British: "Let's screw up everything with a Brexit"
      Americans Nov 8th: "hahah, watch this."
      British Nov 17th: "We're going to screw our population in the worst way possible" ...

      Ball's in America's court.

  3. Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    muslims. We wouldn't have it without you.

    1. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If it weren't muslims, there would be some group that governments would position as requiring these powers to fight.

    2. Re:Thank you... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Like who? What were they doing in the 90's, after the Cold War, but before 9/11?

    3. Re:Thank you... by stealth_finger · · Score: 4, Informative

      If not muslims, the Irish, if not the Irish the Russians, if not Russians the Bogeymen.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    4. Re:Thank you... by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Like who? What were they doing in the 90's, after the Cold War, but before 9/11?"

      Figuring out what these new Internets and The Google really do.

    5. Re:Thank you... by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Most likely the Irish...

    6. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like who? What were they doing in the 90's, after the Cold War, but before 9/11?

      The NSA and the Clipper chip, respectively.

    7. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If not muslims, the Irish, if not the Irish the Russians, if not Russians the Bogeymen.

      Damn Irish! They fought one enemy - the English.

      The Russians just played normal - proxy wars, spying, an occasional standoff. No big deal of the average civilian.

      The Psycho Muslims who are trying to destroy the West for what ever reason - our support of Israel, secular ideas, the fact that our standard of living is so much better than all Islamic Theocracies, we have troops in their Holy Land, our military actions in their countries or whatever their excuse is - they have taken their aggression to the average person.

      It's understandable. Sherman during the Civil War burned Atlanta to the ground for that very reason. He wanted the average Joe to feel the pains of the war and knock their desire for it out of them.

    8. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like who? What were they doing in the 90's, after the Cold War, but before 9/11?

      Whoever they can use to make the population fearful and allow them to do whatever they want... that is who.

    9. Re:Thank you... by clickclickdrone · · Score: 1

      muslims. We wouldn't have it without you.

      Not really. The only thing special was they managed to be "terrorist of the day" when the tech ability became possible. If the IRA (suitably funded by the US, thanks for that) were still at it, they'd have used them as an excuse.

      --
      I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
    10. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like who? What were they doing in the 90's, after the Cold War, but before 9/11?

      Terrorism/religious-political intolerance started long before the Cold War ended. Just because the Cold War had the limelight, doesn't mean it was the only game in town. Learn some fucking history, and stop being part of the problem by ignoring it. Here are some examples to google, assuming you know how:

      Munich Olympics
      Baader-Meinhof
      IRA
      Red Brigades

      There are lots more. Go, learn, be part of the solution.

    11. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's always paedophiles. After all, "think of the children" justifies just about anything.

    12. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure you actually mean racists and fearmongers.

    13. Re:Thank you... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      All of them were Cold War era groups - I specifically asked about the 90s, after the Cold War ended, but before 9/11, when we had the so called 'Peace Dividend'

    14. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because you think IRA is a Cold War era group doesn't mean that they weren't active in the 90s.

      There were plenty of bombings in the 90's
      All they way up to 2001.

      Al-Qaeda were a Cold War era group too, but back then they were getting US support to cause trouble in Soviet.

    15. Re:Thank you... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Al-Qaeda were a Cold War era group too, but back then they were getting US support to cause trouble in Soviet.

      No, they weren't - this is another canard that's used to defame the US. In the 80s, the main Jihadist group that the US supported was Gulbudin Heqmatyar's Hizb-i Islami, which was one of those Afghan militias backed by Pakistan. The Taliban was something that the Bhutto regime started supporting, since Bhutto hated Gen Zia, who was the US ally. But by then, the Soviets had started their withdrawal from Afghanistan, so from that point on, it was just the Afghan civil war. And the US wasn't involved in the Afghan civil war. As for Osama, he was a freelance Jihadist operating in Afghanistan, but certainly not w/ US support.

    16. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've always been at war with Eurasia.

    17. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, thank you for stealing the show, muslims.
      -- A pedophile

    18. Re:Thank you... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dear Pedophile

      Islam allows us to marry girls as young as 9, following the example of Allah's Rasool - Muhammad (SAW). I don't care what you did, you can't hold a candle to us. We have millions of people in Saudi Arabia, Iran and Afghanistan who have married little girls: it's rare that you'll find teenage girls who have not become tilth to our men

      - A Muslim

  4. Public space with a twist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We should always consider everything we do online, whether internet, mail, or even on our "smart"phones, as being done in a public space, anyway. There is no such thing as privacy online. There is no such thing as anonymity online. Internet is public space with a twist - unlike normal public space, where things done outside of security cameras tend to be forgotten quickly, everything online gets recorded somewhere, forever.

    1. Re:Public space with a twist by Calydor · · Score: 1

      If the internet really is to be considered as a public space, censorship laws should be expanded to prevent outsourcing censorship to private companies which somehow makes it completely AOK.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    2. Re:Public space with a twist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is not whether the internet should be *considered* as a public space - it already is. The question is, what are the consequences?

      What you describe is exactly the trouble we're running into today, isn't it? Private companies which basically operate like public places (on the internet, due to the fact that "winner takes all", Google is the only "place to search things", Facebook is the only "place to meet people", ergo unavoidable places, ergo public places) should not have the political power to implement censorship by themselves.

      Because censorship, in the sense of "restrictions to free speech" should be enforced by public powers, such as government. As much as Americans may hate the idea of govermnent, it is the only entity that represents "the people". Corporations only represent the interest of their owners. We should always remember that...

  5. Re: Fuck them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, fuck them royal pussies

  6. Fear. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All those refugees coming into Europe coupled with the fear of terrorism and you get this.

    At least the Brits are open about it. Here in the States, our government just went out and did it - and are still doing it. Who needs a law written by a legislature that represents the people!

    THAT is one legitimate reason to criticize the Obama administration.. The fact that a Harvard educated Constitutional law professor allowed that to happen when he was in charge of the Executive branch make me want Harvard to rescind his JD.

    1. Re:Fear. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh bullshit.

      Guess how many illegal immigrants were deported under Obama?

      More than any GOP president ever did.

      http://fusion.net/story/252637...

      2.5 million.

      So ye old AC threat of waiting to take away someone else's JD makes you look just plain ignorant.

  7. Remind them that one day, their opposition can win by Lord+Kano · · Score: 5, Insightful

    During the Bush administration, I used to remind people of the dangers of giving too much power to the executive branch by reminding them that one day, another "Clinton" will have control.

    During the Obama administration, I reminded people that one day, another "Bush" will have control.

    Eventually, I'll remind people that another "Obama" or "Trump" will have control.

    Never give anyone, even your allies, the kind of power you would fear in the hands of your enemies.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  8. Uh oh.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    VPNs illegal next?

    1. Re:Uh oh.... by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Funny

      --- This comment was deleted by the UK government ---

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Uh oh.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why bother making VPNs illegal? VPNs are pointless misdirection at best. I'm using a VPN right now, but I'm fully aware of the ability of the hosting provider to spy on everything I do, and I also might have malware that I'm not aware of. The "privacy" of a virtual private network doesn't make the endpoints private at all.

    3. Re:Uh oh.... by geckoFeet · · Score: 1

      Replying to kill my accidental moderation as "overrated" (meant to hit "funny")

  9. Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Queen is our last hope. One can only hope she blocks it otherwise VPN all the way :(.

    1. Re:Well by unixisc · · Score: 1

      Maybe abolish the Magna Carta, and go back to what England was before King John? Except that nobody there now is anything remotely close to King Richard I

    2. Re:Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This tendency of British totalitarianism can be traced at least to the secret police of the Oliver Cromwell and the intelligence instruments of Queen Elisabeth the First. Under an internal threat the British reaction is the same still.

  10. Just the culmination of a long trend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The UK has been moving towards fairly pervasive authoritarianism for a long time. Only God(TM) knows why they are such pricks.

  11. Congratulations Britain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And people thought the UK could never be #1 at anything. Well they proved you wrong, didn't they?

  12. At least we know it's happening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it's awful, dreadful, nasty etc etc.

    But we're under no illusion that's it's going on. We may not like being in a prison cell, but at least we know we're in a prison cell, and not deluded that we're actually free.

    1. Re:At least we know it's happening by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which just means you've let yourselves become beaten down and given up hope just like they want you to.

      That's why we'll fight this crap off and you won't. But don't worry, we'll stop by soon after to help you out.

    2. Re: At least we know it's happening by BlytheBowman · · Score: 1

      And once we "liberate" Britain, we have room on our flag for a new 51st star :)

  13. That depends on your definition of ... by davidwr · · Score: 2

    ... democracy.

    Some people would say that laws like this mean you've forfeited the right to call yourself a democracy.

    Others define democracy to mean only how you elect your leaders (although all but the purists typically include republics in the definition), not whether you have freedom of speech, etc. With that definition, there have probably been other "democracies" with far more draconian laws.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  14. Re: Fuck them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Us peasants can only grab royal pussies. Fucking is reserved for other royalty.

  15. The EU is the only government that actively looks by Avarist · · Score: 1

    after your privacy and defends it. But hey, at least they took back control!

    --
    In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
  16. dystopia en route! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're an Internet user in the UK, then your government is now an enemy combatant in the 'cyberspace domain' (legitimate according to NATO, alongside air, sea, and land) and has more or less declared open war on you.

    Freaky.

  17. That's where we're heading... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democratic Fascism. We're going to have folks actually vote for politicians who enact fascist laws - and get reelected!

    And any one of them - especially here in the States - that mentions anything about Civil Liberties or rights or whatever will be labeled as "soft on terrorism" and defeat is his.

    1. Re:That's where we're heading... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There was a survey about this particular one a little while ago. 97% of people were against it, if they knew about it or after they had the contents explained to them, but only around 10% even knew it was being proposed. I hope that the opposition parties make a lot of noise about it at the next election.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:That's where we're heading... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

      Perhaps the most depressing thing is that this isn't even mentioned on major news outlets like the BBC today.

      The second most depressing thing is that Labour wanted it as well and basically allowed the Tories to wave it through as soon as they were no longer hampered by being in coalition. If you look at the Parliamentary speeches, a lot of MPs seem to genuinely believe this is a good and necessary law.

      Most of the public don't want it, once they know about it and understand what it is. Most of the smaller political parties don't support it either. Legal challenges about violating the right to a private life and so on are inevitable. But the reality is, both big parties love this authoritarian measure, so it's going to be an uphill struggle -- and probably a Sisyphean one -- to rein it in.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    3. Re:That's where we're heading... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      If you look at the Parliamentary speeches, a lot of MPs seem to genuinely believe this is a good and necessary law.

      Actually, they read it and realised that politicians are exempt from unwarranted domestic spying.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  18. Security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bloody excellent. We'll be even more secure than the Israelis. Thank you Prime Minister for looking out for us, and securing our future.

  19. UK government - fascists in diguise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The UK government has always wanted to be a fascist government, they're just being sneaky and going about it the long way. Slowly chip away at rights and increase mass surveillance until BAM political dissidence is silenced, people go missing, everything you say and do is captured and logged in case they need a reason to dispose of you in the future.

    P.S. All hail Overlord May. May her glorious regime last eintausend jahre.

    1. Re: UK government - fascists in diguise by BlytheBowman · · Score: 1

      Britain Uber Alles

    2. Re:UK government - fascists in diguise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The UK government has always wanted to be a fascist government, they're just being sneaky and going about it the long way. Slowly chip away at rights and increase mass surveillance until BAM political dissidence is silenced, people go missing, everything you say and do is captured and logged in case they need a reason to dispose of you in the future.

      P.S. All hail Overlord May. May her glorious regime last eintausend jahre.

      i believe she prefers the term Obergruppenführer, it sounds scarier.

  20. 1984 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The time has come

    1. Re:1984 by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Max Headroom got it right on the spot already in the 80's.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:1984 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In which an undocumented resident (Blank Reg) broadcasts a pirate channel (Big Time Television) with impunity, he is only ever in trouble with the law when he is framed for unrelated crimes, and afterwards he goes right back to pirate broadcasting with impunity. Not exactly a realistic example.

  21. Land of the Clockwork Orange. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey isn't the UK were most of the Dystopian movies, and TV are made?

  22. AND YET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    Basic dental care eludes all of Britania!

  23. One reason to support Brexit by MikeRT · · Score: 0

    Stronger border security makes it easier to push the anti-terrorism measures out of the civil society and to its borders. The EU is living in a fantasy world about how easy it is for terrorists to land in Europe and move at will under the various agreements and treaties. Restoring British sovereignty over the movement of people and border security will help civil libertarians build a case for reducing the internal measures to purging bad actors and their sympathizers/enablers while moving most of the security apparatus to proactively keeping the threat out of the society itself. No electorate is going to accept a regime that simultaneously allows bad actors to move in easily AND that doesn't provide some sort of sweeping measure to protect society from them. So pick one. Either you restrict access to your country or you spy on it and carry out regular anti-terrorism raids.

    1. Re:One reason to support Brexit by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Sounds more like this will just generate more "homegrown" terrorists....

    2. Re:One reason to support Brexit by Avarist · · Score: 1

      Or you know, you don't go about invading other countries killing innocent people and inspire hatred of you around the world so no one feels the need to terrorize you. Or do you still think they hate you because you're so free? PS: Guess what the objective of terrorists is? To terrorize you. That's right, you just made them win by being terrorized into passing draconion Orwellian laws.

      --
      In Capitalist US, the commerce controls the Government.
    3. Re:One reason to support Brexit by Orgasmatron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Given the set {Diversity, Security, Liberty}, you can pick at most 2. Britain chose Diversity, and as surely as the sun rises in the east, Security evaporated. To restore Security, they are throwing out Liberty.

      If Brexit was the harbinger of a rising tide, I expect that the country will complete the cycle by using Security to drive out Diversity so that they can restore Liberty.

      It helps to remember that the history of Britain for the last 1000 years or so has been the rise of Liberty. The people will have to decide if we are seeing the end and reversal of that trend, or just an 80 year detour.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    4. Re:One reason to support Brexit by turp182 · · Score: 1

      I would argue that your conjecture could be simplified to: Pick one, Security or Liberty.

      Security is gasoline, it doesn't mix well with Liberty's waters. Another analogy, Security and Liberty are on either ends of a slider/spectrum (think volume control).

      Regarding Diversity, one can spy on a neighbor of the same or other

      Spot on commentary. It's terrifying how terrorists can force our leaders to enact such changes (fear). As well, out of more fear, many of the populace support such change.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    5. Re:One reason to support Brexit by turp182 · · Score: 1

      Finishing my thought, replying to myself.

      Regarding Diversity, one can spy on a neighbor of the same or other colored skin. It only takes efforts to promote distrust.

      Your sig was a fortune teller...

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    6. Re:One reason to support Brexit by RandomSurfer314 · · Score: 1

      I also think that the UK should hurry up with the Brexit, and so do the officials from all EU countries except the UK. The UK's totalitarian disregard for basic civil rights is completely incompatible with the EU constitution. For the rest of you demented post: Please piss off sooner than later!

    7. Re:One reason to support Brexit by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Well, the UK is trying to pick both options, restricting access and spying on everyone.

    8. Re:One reason to support Brexit by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe the UK is trying a new approach to stop terrorism. Take away freedoms one at a time until the terrorists no longer hate them! /s

    9. Re:One reason to support Brexit by GNious · · Score: 1

      The UK is still subject to the ECHR, and this sounds an awful lot like it would conflict with at least Art. 8.

    10. Re:One reason to support Brexit by Orgasmatron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      America is, for the most part, a very safe place to live. If you can avoid visiting a few specific zip codes, your chances of dying violently are very, very low. My understanding is that England is pretty much the same, except that they use post codes instead of zip codes.

      In those parts of those countries, there is pretty much no need or desire to spy on or restrict anyone. The few exceptions seem mostly to be people that don't want their government to push diversity on them by force.

      Without diversity, you get security for free. With diversity, the best you can do is to sell your Liberty for a veneer of security.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    11. Re:One reason to support Brexit by Goragoth · · Score: 1

      BS. Lack of security is a fairytale the media has dreamed up to drive ratings. Really, the chance of getting killed or harmed in a terrorist attack is basically zero. People are scared because they see 1-in-a-million events on TV all the time, since that is an easy sell for the news networks, so you are left with a bunch of idiots with a poor understanding of statistics fearing for their life. Western countries are safer now than they have been at any point in history and there is zero reason to trash liberty for more security.

  24. UK is a Democracy as much as the US by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
    Britain a Democracy? I don't think so.

    In the immortal words of Inigo Montoya "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

    There needs to be a rule that every time someone going on about our governments being Democracies just needs to slapped like the retarded child that they are.

    1. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does Democracy have to do with surveillance?

    2. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does Democracy have to do with surveillance?

      From the summary: In other words, it's the "most extreme surveillance law ever passed in a democracy,"

    3. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      As a Brit I've long suspected that in the UK at least, the ritual of elections is kept up just for appearances sake, and that its actually just an illusion of Democracy solely designed to keep the people placated.
      It appears that was also the intended purpose of the Brexit referendum, until it totally backfired on the then-government plans.
      I'd be VERY surprised if the beureaucrats in Whitehall aren't now taking the view that they learnt their lesson well and will no longer be trusting the people to make any more "dangerous" decisions.

    4. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Well it didn't help that the leave side was promising the world and people were buying it. Especially all the money that was to go to the NHS and the farmers. The day after the election it was "What money?"

      At least the UK can run a proper election. Not hearing about it for years ahead of time, not changing the rules on who can vote, not hearing about chads or electronic voter machine fraud.

    5. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      Got yourself a public school education did you?

    6. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Private actually, but why would you think that?

    7. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by Howitzer86 · · Score: 2

      People like to argue "We're not a Democracy!" on this side of the pond too. They are wrong.

      Democracy isn't a strict term with a single definition, but rather a master set of associated governing styles, of which includes representative governments like the US and the UK. Representatives don't listen to and act on behalf of their voters as a courtesy, it's their job. They have to bend to the public will in order to keep their job. While this isn't always true - thanks to gerrymandering and other such schemes to defraud the public will - we should continue to hold ourselves to that democratic ideal, and not proudly thumb our noses at the concept all together.

    8. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Britain has always been a managed democracy on a leash, if enough of those bureaucrats in Whitehall would not have wanted Brexit it would never happened
      It wasn't the trusting of the people that backfired, it was their own internal disagreement and the fact that the propaganda machine of the for leave bureaucrats worked so well

    9. Re:UK is a Democracy as much as the US by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      If anything, Britain is actually much more of a democracy than US, because of how much power the elected Parliament has, and how subordinate the other branches of government are to it. Yes, I know, there's a bunch of unwritten stuff that's "constitution-like" by convention and customs...but, well, the thing about conventions is that wiping your ass with them is less symbolic than doing it with a written constitution.

  25. Won't Be Long by 0xG · · Score: 1

    Before Australia follows suit.

    --
    A pox on web designers who feel that window.innerWidth == screen.availWidth
  26. Re:The EU is the only government that actively loo by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They did take back control. The small print said that they took back control on behalf of the Westminster Parliament, which had been consistently acting against their interests for decades, but that's not the point. I still don't understand the people who decided that voting to give Parliament more power was a protest vote against the establishment.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  27. Government Charm School by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How to pwn friends and influence people.
    I never metadata I didn’t like... so I save it all!

  28. They're keeping it secret by Coisiche · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The news suppression must be in force.

    No mention of it on the BBC website, but that's frequently the case if the government want something suppressed, the BBC is not the impartial news service that some people outside the UK think it is.

    What's more annoying is that it has no mention of this on the bills before parliament site which shows the last action as Lords bouncing back to Commons.

    But even if it's not actually law yet, it's going to be soon. There are just formalities left.

    1. Re:They're keeping it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. Biased Broadcasting Corporation. Still, better than most. The world service is quite good, but this seems to be conspicuously absent.

    2. Re:They're keeping it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to see some more information about the reporting. The only source is currently ZDNet.

      The bills before parliament site may be out of date and will be updated tomorrow (Friday morning) or, this is a false alarm.

      Any concrete information from anyone who was at parliament today?

    3. Re:They're keeping it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed the BBC have suppressed it so well that a web search on snoopers charter site:*bbc.co.uk returns only 332 results. A chilling lack of coverage of the topic.

    4. Re:They're keeping it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35689432

    5. Re:They're keeping it secret by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      Yes, but all preamble about the bill from proposal, speculation about effect and news on progress but nothing about it actually being passed.

    6. Re:They're keeping it secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is going to cause a lot of problems abroad too, which is another reason to keep it quiet whilst Brexit unfolds.
      Based in Western Europe, all our IT is hosted and managed through the UK HQ, google thinks we're in British territory at the server's physical location.
      So with our European data retention laws in effect, the UK ISP isn't allowed to collect our web histories at all.
      Whether the UK is in the EU or not means nothing, we have local law and American ITAR security regulations to adhere to.
      So we'll have to do something drastic to re-route our traffic, which will be an expensive option as we have to pay different operators etc.
      This is not going to go down well ...

    7. Re:They're keeping it secret by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      Has it actually been passed?

      I saw this story on Slashdot yesterday (Thursday) and it's now Friday morning (10am in England) and there is nothing on the BBC and no update to the parliament.uk page regarding the bill.

      Is there a chance this hasn't actually been passed which is why it's not being reported? The BBC has no recent (within last week) news on this.

      OK, so searching with Google News I can now see a few UK papers picking this up today: The Independent, Digital Trends, Out-Law, and Press Gazetta but they are not what you'd consider main-stream.

      Fuck the main-stream media.

      Fuck the UK government.

  29. Forcing companies to decrypt data. by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    force companies to decrypt data on demand -- though the government has never been that clear on exactly how it forces foreign firms to do that that;

    The idea is there's a legal framework in this country. We can use the law against any business operating in this country. If it is entirely in a foreign country, we have to use whatever framework they have in place there.

    I just want to be clear - I don't in any defend this law, or even the actual law that was passed (blogs tend to hype it up a little). This comment is just an observation on a specific point in the summary.

  30. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by bazorg · · Score: 1

    In this case, the Conservative party can have a reasonable expectation to remain in power for a long time, especially if leaving the EU causes Scotland to abandon the union. Scotland represents some 10% of the population and regularly vote everyone-but-Theresa-May's-party.

    For those interested in evil genius accomplishments and Bond-style villains, it's a good time to point out that with the chaos and paralysis that followed the recent referendum, Theresa May eventually got the law she had wanted for a long time. Merit where merit is due.

  31. Theresa May, Prime Minister by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Theresa May"? That's a funny way to spell "Harriet Jones."

    1. Re:Theresa May, Prime Minister by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But don't you think she looks tired?

  32. Re: Fuck them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aren't all brits royal pissies?

    Literally fuck a royal wrinky pussy feels disgusting. Definitely let a royal dumb bozo do it.

  33. HAHA by BlytheBowman · · Score: 1

    Yes, that's what you get when you let your own gov't padlock the rigid mitts over your hands. The only people I feel sorry for here are the children whose parents delivered them into this nightmare.

  34. News Flash... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Britian is not a democracy. Its like many nations, a pseudo-democracy. Its all in the perception of the citizen.

  35. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Coisiche · · Score: 1

    The Conservative government, during this term, will pass boundary changes which are not blatant gerrymandering but do look like ensuring a multiple term Conservative government regardless of anything else that happens. The graph in the article nicely illustrates how irrelevant the Scotland, Wales and NI vote actually is despite what some (invariably Conservative supporting) people in England think.

  36. 1984 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the first to compare it to 1984?

  37. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by CODiNE · · Score: 3

    The problem with that argument (and I agree with your point), is that both sides believe people are waking up from the lies of the other. They both see history as being on their side, and their position as the inevitable conclusion. Why fear the future? "We've won!"

    If you're a nice approachable person, many people will assume you'd agree with them on politics, simply because you seem sane and decent. They absolutely cannot understand how anyone could agree with the other side unless they're stupid or evil.

    While your point makes a lot of sense to a rational actor, in politics very few are.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  38. VPN service? by Trachman · · Score: 0

    Many VPN service firms have been founded by taxpayer money, and merely are the different arm of operations.

  39. No change then. by JustNiz · · Score: 2

    This is just formalizing and bringing out into the open what has already actually been happening in secret for years.

    My only concern is given what happens in secret is often beyond the law, if the law itself is beyond the edge of decency, how bad can/will the secret stuff become?

    1. Re:No change then. by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

      "how bad can/will the secret stuff become?"

      Umm, kindof by definition you admit you don't know how bad it was/is. So it seems like a pointless question to me. What you really mean is, how much of the bad will I have the misfortune of learning during my lifetime. Yeah, that is a scary question.

    2. Re:No change then. by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Thank goodness that Captain Pedantic and his faithful sidekick, Anal Boy are here to save us all from the dangers of possible misinterpretations.

  40. The sad part to me was: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Neither side cared when theirs was in power, and would quickly forget that their rivals, if not enemies, had that power during the last president. I brought the same thing up in regards to Trump soon having those powers, and they are still too busy railing about the person (and resultant staff) rather than the encroaching scope of the office of the president and that mitigating that encroachment of scope would solve many of the issues they are currently worried about under a Trump (or any other) Presidency.

    I have concluded this whole country is mentally ill on a scale that I never could have fathomed possible, but upon reflection on other nations around the world, as well as the historical example of Germany, I wonder if perhaps that is the human condition when power is ceded to a sufficiently large and bureacratic government to whom the people cannot easily dismantle when it has breached its mandates and social contract.

  41. We all know its coming, don't we? by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seriously, we all know it's coming.

    Eastern Europe, Erdogan, Putin, Le Pen, Frauke Petry, Donald Trump ... these are special effects, smoke & mirrors.
    The real action happens when laws like this get passed or Tim Cook and his Silicon Valley Bros push for everything-as-a-service / 'ecosystem' and proprietary payment systems instead of cash.

    You can read it in Aldous Huxleys work, and in William Gibsons and Neal Stephensons.

    We are moving into an all-out full-blown cyperpunk society where anyone halfway free from 'the system' is a potential suspect or locked out of essential basics , only able to acquire them by semi-legal / grey-market means. A world where *everything* has a price-tag and you can't move without Big Brother watching you.

    Tamper-free FOSS IT systems are becoming more and more exotic a concept while the brainwashed masses think Fakebook or Twotter is some sort of innovation over other services we've had for decades.

    Basically we're smack in the middle of a cyberpunk society already.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

      no mod points, +1 anyway

    2. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by null+etc. · · Score: 1

      Fakebook or Twotter

      It's Farcebook and Twitster, get it right.

    3. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuckbook and Twatter are much better sites.

    4. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool, I love cyberpunk. Unfortunately we aren't in the middle of it yet because it's fucking hyperbole.

    5. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm ok with this, if they don't mind getting scragged by my gyro-gimballed Ares Predator with smart-gun link....

      shadowrun. look it up ;)

    6. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why can't I use a disk doubler to store 380GB of encrypted data in my brain, with an unlock key that gets sent by fax machine?

    7. Re:We all know its coming, don't we? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      electronic old men, and their flexibility

      a new age

  42. End to end encrypted messaging... by John+Allsup · · Score: 1

    The basic trick you can use (something which took me at most a couple of hours on a lazy afternoon to knock out off the top of my head -- easy or any CS student) is to have a MySQL table somewhere, with a simple schema of { int insertTime, char[32] key, string value }. The keys are produced by hashing a string of some sort, and the values are produced by encrypting using some password used by a related hashing method. Essentially you take a string 'HexVision' and salt it in two different ways. All table rows with this key are considered part of the conversation. Anybody with correct means to produce encryption key and row key can see the conversation. Encryption and decryption is done in javascript in the browser, as is producing the hashes (aes.js and sha.js). All the server does is store and retrieve rows, and is a few lines of PHP. You then get e.g. the last n messages, (get rows with matching key, sort by time, return last n), or the messages after a given time. The time things are written is not encrypted in this simple approach.

    The thing is, you can write this into a single PHP file that you can stick on any LAMP stack anywhere (copy aes.js and sha.js inline). Then for the salting stuff, you use a separate html page (using sha.js and a few lines of js) to generate stuff to stick into the messaging page. Stuff like that.

    Then, you stick it in something like a wordpress blog, where accessing a certain page (e.g. myweb.com/blog?page=46&etc=45) at the right time gives you the messaging application, but otherwise not. Then stick this in a country other than the UK.

    Too easy. The government has basically declared its right to use a magic wand to summon unicorns.

    --
    John_Chalisque
  43. all vote matters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i still think having voting rights matters.with google apple you are their prosumers and have no rights but get Fuck**. those corporation will chanel any picture or information on your children to wathwver site just so they make money. I for sure prefer to keep my voting rights. therefore i think it is goverment should get them to respect wathever law is voted even if decrypting murderer phone is a security hasard to their businesses.

  44. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You paint it as if they don't realize the future implications. I don't believe that. Rather I think both side are control freaks. They want more control, and they are getting it.

  45. Someone watching you at all times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why every citizen in the UK doesn't protest or revolt against being treated like a potential terrorist I don't know. The people there have been pacified into compliance with anything. That's exactly the type of compliance that led to the rise of Nazi's and the holocaust. Seriously, you can't just let government do whatever the hell it wants especially when it starts treating you like the enemy. We don't have it much better in the US with cameras everywhere but at least our cameras don't speak back and tell you to pick up your trash. Almost no real freedom in any UK city with your mom looking over your shoulder every time you take a piss. Almost as bad as North Korea.

  46. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are you advocating that no one but you should have voting right as one day these other citizen might give those power to you enemies. seriously ???

  47. George would be proud by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    George Orwell would be proud of himself for his predictions.

    1. Re:George would be proud by JustNiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not really. Reality is much worse.

    2. Re:George would be proud by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not really. Reality is much worse.

      Have you actually read 1984? If you think present reality is worse than that, then I have a bridge to sell you.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:George would be proud by JustNiz · · Score: 2

      Yes. Several times, and yes I still think reality is worse.

    4. Re:George would be proud by matbury · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's doubleplusgood! :)))

      I think it's pure genius how they've managed to get "individuals" to broadcast their thoughtcrimes so that they can be swiftly and properly re-educated.

    5. Re:George would be proud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      for starters, their moniters were stuck on a wall; and didn't have gps.

    6. Re:George would be proud by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes. Several times, and yes I still think reality is worse.

      You think that a reality where you will be kidnapped and tortured for criticising the government is better than what we have now? You do realise that Twitter telling nutcases where to go is not the same as literally being tortured, right?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:George would be proud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      kidnapped and tortured

      This isn't so far from reality, it is it?

      http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/10/19/chicago-police-disappeared-over-7000-people-notorious-homan-square
      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/20/homan-square-chicago-police-lawsuit-kidnap-revelations

  48. Web crawlers for everyone! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If everyone runs a web crawler that visits all of the top level websites, then everyone would have the same history. Add this as a default feature of all browsers and suddenly we've turned the law into an ass.

  49. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by khallow · · Score: 2

    When they get repeatedly burned by Trumps and Obamas, maybe they'll figure it out. I'm not very hopeful, but at least it's an easy argument to make these days.

  50. I Understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The citizens are wayward, undisciplined, and childlike. They must be protected and kept controlled. For their own good of course. None of this is creepy, weird, patronizing, problematic, subject to abuse, or suffocating.

    No, the people must be protected. We must destroy their freedom in order to save their freedom.

    I understand completely.

    1. Re:I Understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

  51. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's not, and you don't believe that he is.

  52. Let's have fun with this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone in the UK, set up a Tor exit node. They want logs? We'll give them logs.

  53. 1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What is it with the British and their love of surveillance and the right to privacy meaning so little to them? There is a Fundamental difference from the US, where laws and the Government are supposed to be charged with protecting the rights of the individual, while in the U.K. the objective is to protect the people and the Government itself from the individual.

  54. Not that "Snooper's Charter" by Kjella · · Score: 1

    The "Investigatory Powers Bill" is not quite as bad as the "Communications Data Bill" that was shot down, this one passed by a huge majority:

    In March 2016, the House of Commons passed the second reading of the Investigatory Powers Bill on a 281 to 15 vote, moving the bill to the committee stage.

    Wasn't exactly surprising the House of Lords passed it too, almost as much a formality as the Queen's Royal Assent.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  55. Cyber-Communism: Sorry UK you are no longer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...a democracy.

    At the height of the industrial revolution, Marx pointed out that private ownership can be abused. The solution he proposed was to have the government nationalize all private property. Today, during our information technology revolution, we see governments argue that private data can be abused and they have proposed as a solution the reduction of the rights of the private owner. In the light of the analogy to Marx’s reasoning, we call this philosophy: cyber-communism.

    http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-3-319-12400-1_27

  56. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    I think that many of them don't realize the future implications.

    I can only use the US's political landscape as a point of reference but I think the point will be clear...
    We've been hearing about the GOP's "Demographic problem" for more than a decade. Basically, as America is getting younger and browner, there is dwindling power for those groups who have traditionally been the Republican party's base. People with left-of-center politics really did think that we wouldn't see another Republican president for a generation or more.

    Now that Trump won the presidency and Republicans control both houses of congress, I have heard grumblings on the right-of-center side who think that the Democrats are now over and done.

    They're both wrong.

    Giving more power to the government is a bad idea, no matter who is in control of it.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  57. Re:We've lost the war on terror thanks to you fool by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Those 'billion' enemies - assuming that they materialize - will be outside the US. People in Teheran or Lahore or Tunis burning US flags is par for the course - we should just advise our citizens not to go there. As long as we keep them out of our countries, we should be fine!

  58. At huge cost to the ISPs by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

    The law will force internet providers to record every internet customer's top-level web history in real-time for up to a year

    That is a lot of data the ISPs will have to store. I assume they're going to store logs from their DNS servers, for every little DNS request.

    --
    Eat the rich.
    1. Re:At huge cost to the ISPs by GNious · · Score: 1

      Can't be that difficult to write a javascript for a website, that randomly looks up domain names based on a dictionary.

    2. Re:At huge cost to the ISPs by PPH · · Score: 1

      top-level web history

      gopher FTW!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:At huge cost to the ISPs by Tharkkun · · Score: 1

      The law will force internet providers to record every internet customer's top-level web history in real-time for up to a year

      That is a lot of data the ISPs will have to store. I assume they're going to store logs from their DNS servers, for every little DNS request.

      Like many have said. The government already has access to all this information. This just makes it legal to do what they were already doing.

  59. Overload it. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Get a program that will load a thousand random websites every hour. When millions of subscribers will each load 24000 websites every day, the storage will quickly overflow, and if the ISPs feel the pain, they are better placed than John Q. Public to effect pressure on the government.

    1. Re:Overload it. by Tharkkun · · Score: 1

      Get a program that will load a thousand random websites every hour. When millions of subscribers will each load 24000 websites every day, the storage will quickly overflow, and if the ISPs feel the pain, they are better placed than John Q. Public to effect pressure on the government.

      You act like tech today is in the stone ages. Software has the means to dump useless, duplicate data when creating a repository based on digital signatures given to the content when archiving it. You can also take snapshots off diffs so if you are logging an entire website, the only new data required to backup are the changes. Unless a website completely renovates itself everyday the storage will be very little.

    2. Re:Overload it. by jxander · · Score: 1

      I like the concept -I really do- but I don't know how practical it is. Mostly depending on exactly what data is being stored.

      Simply put, text is tiny. The URL for this page is 126 characters in total, requiring 126 bytes of space to store. Using that as a baseline, storing 24,000 websites would consume about 3 MB of space.

      If a million customers did that, you'd need about 3 TB per day, which isn't nothing, but isn't going to crash any enterprise level storage solution.

      Of course, there's probably some overhead and extra space, plus that's just the URL for this page, others could be longer or shorter... but I don't think you're going to gain many orders of magnitude.

      --
      This signature is false.
    3. Re:Overload it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't duplicate data we're talking about here. He's just referring to the list of websites visited, not an entire copy of that website. When you are archiving access logs, there is no duplicate data. The timestamp is different and it is important to keep that order and frequency of access intact. So what he is saying is that if everyone just ran a bot that was loading random pages (or something like auto clicking the Stumbleupon button on the toolbar) then the storage mechanisms will be filled up with nothing but shit log data. Software can probably handle this too but I don't know if it exists currently.

    4. Re:Overload it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So then they cut off your service because "you traffic suggests that your machine is infected with malware."

    5. Re:Overload it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no need, just disable your ad and spyware blockers and any site you go to on the web will count as 100's of different connections made.

  60. Clickbait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ZDNet reporter has never heard of China

    1. Re:Clickbait by lastman71 · · Score: 1

      Depend of your definition of Democracy. Most of people in western world, don't consider China a democray. But here, we are heading to slippery slope... :)

  61. Congratulations! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Britain used to have the shittiest democracy, then Trump got elected and US held the #1 spot, but Britain has come back with a vengeance and is once again the most oppressive "democracy" in the world. Well done, chaps!

  62. First they took away their guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First the Brits and the Aussies took the guns away for citizens for their safety. Now they are taking away their rights. When your government tells you you don't need a gun, you need as gun.

    1. Re:First they took away their guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because They can't track you if, instead of paying for something online, you simply take it at gunpoint.

  63. Government worse than terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democracy in Britain is completely dead. Fascists like Theresa May are truly enemies of the people. I don't see any reason to treat the ruling junta - which has no democratic mandate, and rules only because of the undemocratic electoral system. I guess UK citizens have now to use non-uk hosted proxies, or tor to avoid being part of this totalitarian nightmare. The UK media has done a non-existen job of holding the nazi junta to account.

    1. Re:Government worse than terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rules only because of the undemocratic electoral system

      Welcome to the club.

  64. the time for game playing is past by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

    "Public to effect pressure on the government."

    You need a lot of people willing to literally go to *this* government's jails in a civil disobedience protest for this tactic to work as anything other than a weaponized surprise attack that if carried out at scale would cause even further unpleasantness to those arrested. I'm not all that optimistic that even if you had all those people willing to take that risk, that you would effect enough pressure on the government to change. By the point you got enough people that hard core about the issue, you might as well fight your battle with newspaper editorials and opinion essays. I think that would be more successful anyway.

  65. white male non-sodomite torture luvn jesus phreakz by rectalfeeding · · Score: 1

    "I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have."

    Let me try and rephrase that for you- "I'm a [insert color here] [insert gender here] [insert sexual orientation here] [insert any religious affiliation here] 'Merican. I love this country and the freedoms that a subset of my nation has had for a subset of its history."

    We should be terrified of where things might go. But it doesn't make where things have been better than they actually were. Of course, I'm going to take a wild guess that you filled in white male non-sodomite torture-loving jesus phreak above.

  66. obligatory orwell by fche · · Score: 1

    Congratulations, Airstrip One!

    1. Re:obligatory orwell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've always been at war with the middle east

  67. JEWS... why did Theresa May... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... visit the 'Jewish Board of Deputies' on the day before she became Prime Minister?

    Who are they "deputies" to? Why - the government! Because they RUN the government - whichever party is in power. Oy vey...

  68. What about VPN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Time to tunnel! Presumably the British subjects like to buy shit from the internet, so they will allow TLS out. TLS VPN here I come.

  69. It's been going on in the USA for a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hmm.. the NSA has computer clusters designed to glean through voice, emails, and data.

    What do you think funded IBM's Watson ?

  70. Re:white male non-sodomite torture luvn jesus phre by frovingslosh · · Score: 0

    Joke's on you fudge packer, I'm not a jesus freak.

    Remember, with faith all things are possible. Unlike the real world.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  71. Shhhh by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Let them think they can see anything of meaning.

    I mean: Oh snap, now everything I do online will be known without fail by the government! Oh woe is me! Better not do anything unwholesome!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  72. Mohammed Is Gonna Getcha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mohammed: Did you see Mohammed at the meeting today?
    Mohammed: No, but his brother Mohammed showed up.
    Mohammed: What did Mohammed talk about?
    Mohammed: Mohammed introduced us to Mohammed who is also a mason!
    Mohammed: A mason? No shit? How long has he been one?
    Mohammed: About five years. He was referred to the local lodge by Mohammed.
    Mohammed: Ah, yes, Mohammed. He has a shit ton of connections around town!
    Mohammed: Yes, and our brothers, police be upon them, Mohammed and Mohammed from Egypt came, too.
    Mohammed: I've been thinking of becoming a clown.
    Mohammed: A clown, Mohammed, why?
    Mohammed: So I can film myself being gay.
    Mohammed: Oh, you.
    Mohammed: So anyway, is Mohammed, Mohammed, and Mohammed coming to the next party?
    Mohammed: Indeed. Mohammed was so funny last time.
    Mohammed: Well it wouldn't be a party without Mohammed.
    Mohammed: Yes, my friend. POLICE BE UPON THEM!

  73. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  74. B***g about totalitarian gov? You have no excuse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Either you are with the majority who want security theatre and are willing to pay that cost by surrendering your liberty and freedom or you have no excuse to complain. The people telling you to leave when you complain about such things are wrong, but unlike in the past you now have a real choice to do just that. There is large and active migration movement called the Free State Project that's driving people to New Hampshire for the purpose of undoing these draconian laws. Those who want freedom and liberty are moving. The excuses why people don't move tend to be laughable. For example "a migration of 20,000 people can't achieve anything even in a small low population state like New Hampshire" or that "you can't achieve freedom without succession and the civil war settled that".

    The problem with this line of thinking is that it disregards the fact that an active minority can have a disproportionate impact on politics and the state and we're already seeing that with liberty-minded politicians being elected at all levels of state and local government in New Hampshire as a direct result of the Free State Project.

    The other problem with the later part is that the states lock up more people than the federal government so you really don't even need a secession movement to achieve a significantly less oppressive government. If you can fix the state you can work toward secession later. The other issue is that just because secession failed once does not mean it'll fail if tried again. The civil war was also settled violently, not legally, so we could try it again and the outcome could be different. The world is constantly changing and the conditions within change as well. While there is not an immediate foreseeable set of conditions that are looking like they are opening up an opportunity for a successful secessionist movement things can change very quickly. Wars are also fought by a minority of the population, and even if the majority did not want secession it could still technically be achieved provided a minority of persons of a certain age backed it, and were willing to fight. Violent secessionist movements generally aren't won by the majority, but by a minority. Now that is not to say that I think secession is the answer in any near-future scenario even if there is an active non-violent secessionist movement in New Hampshire already.

    The thing to remember about libertarians is they/we are fundamentally against the use of the violence to achieve political or social goals. For a violent libertarian secessionist movement to work you would have to make the argument that the federal government was using violence against a non-violent people because the only acceptable use of violence is in self defence. That said I can say this: There probably isn't a real libertarian in New Hampshire who would argue that the government isn't using violence against us already.

  75. Social control for the 21st century! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is nothing to do with terrorism and all about control!

    The internet allows the people to communicate, share, learn and oppose. Not something the government generally wants - this is about monitoring the population, detecting trends, silencing opposition and influencing thought.

  76. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well said.

  77. An overbearing woman by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An overbearing woman trying to mother a whole country?

    Color me shocked.

  78. Social control for the 21st century by CinnamonDonkey · · Score: 2

    This is nothing to do with terrorism and all about control! The internet allows the people to communicate, share, learn and oppose. Not something the government generally wants - this is about monitoring the population, detecting trends, silencing opposition and influencing thought.

  79. This bitch has to go ffs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An far reaching bill that the majority of citizens don't approve of, forced into law by an unelected, amoral, draconian lunatic... How long do we have to wait to unelect her?

  80. Colonoscopies will continue until morale improves. by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Colonoscopies will continue until morale improves. That is all.

  81. Contrary to myth by UpnAtom · · Score: 1

    The ECHR isn't part of the EU.

    Nonetheless, countries in the EU condemning totalitarian actions by the UK government is one of the main defences we have.

  82. Same the other way around by UpnAtom · · Score: 2

    Two years of Trump and even the thickest Brit would think twice about Brexit.

    Even though the vast majority of the country would refuse to pay the price for Hard Brexit, our unelected authoritarian Prime Minister (whose legislation this is) is determined to push for it anyway.

    I wish I had reason to share your optimism re: Article 50.

    1. Re:Same the other way around by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      Don't worry about it your still living in a state of delusion. The EU is a system that is inevitably heading towards its own destruction. It is the big ship yes but there are thirty captains and they are at constant war with each other and even when they do make a decision it can take up to ten years to steer. In short its a hopeless labyrinth of incompetent bureaucracy. It is slowly suffocating and crushing freedom and democracy throughout Europe, at the top it is driven by corruption and seething incompetence and it is intolerant of dissent.
      The US isn't always a very good democracy either for exactly the same reasons - too big. Not a country so much as a continent of country sized semi-independent states that are often in conflict with each other... and for the most part the US does it better than the EU..

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    2. Re:Same the other way around by UpnAtom · · Score: 1

      The EU is the one defending privacy whilst my own country just introduced the most invasive surveillance laws of any democracy. Oh, it's also made us 10% richer and we don't need visas to go to the best cities in the world.

    3. Re:Same the other way around by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      True. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. (assuming its analogue)

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  83. Same way we have done since the IRA by UpnAtom · · Score: 1

    Even if you include the 2005 bombings where the Govt knew of the bombers and seemingly had an agent who was its mastermind... .. UK terrorism has killed fewer people than peanuts. Peanuts of course target young children too.

    1. Re:Same way we have done since the IRA by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      So do biscuits. Biscuits also kill far more than terrorism in most countries including the UK. Unless you live in Iraq or Afghanistan. Terrorism is the flea that roars like a lion.

      With Islamic terrorism the best analogy is probably a hydra. How do you fight a hydra? 'Keep cutting the head(s) off.' seems to be the only strategy we have.., which is why we will still be fighting it in twenty or thirty years. Now with Trump encouraging proliferation in twenty or thirty years we might be seeing Islamic terrorists with atomic bombs. That is the time to get properly scared.. :D

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  84. What this will look like by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Expect every IM, website, and social media post to be readable with an ip and account details in real time by teams of in house SJW, NGO's and gov/mil staff.
    So all freedom of speech is gone from any UK isp account with a UK ip.
    Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... "gain access to large amounts of Internet users' personal data, without any individual suspicion or targeting."
    Once noticed, expect computer entry. The gov and mil will enter and alter your computer, network or any other device.
    Expect that device to report all movements if your in the media or in contact with the media.
    Whistleblowers reaching out to the traditional media won't get beyond the first call or meeting.
    What can the press and media do?
    Create a series of devices and fill them with fiction. Reports, searches, contacts. Use any UK isp for searches for amazing new stories with background help from informants and insiders. Sock puppet contacts with details of meetings. Walk, drive out for such meetings so gps and other tracking can collect. Select a good location to meet "someone" handing over vast amounts of data.
    Then do days of background research with as much jargon, mil, science and party political terms as possible.
    Flood the digital collection system with a lot of work related fiction everyday in plain text. Any real contact would be without an electronic devices, away from CCTV. Any phone been given to a friend to walk around with and handed back later. Buy a typewriter. Create your own secure shorthand for paper notes. Learn about one time pads. Once a story is ready, publish early, fully and often. Expect all networks and digital files to be searched. So have a lot of digital fiction ready :)
    The UK gov and mil hope that a lot of new SJW, gov staff and volunteers can cover an entire nation of networked users. Physical access to a site will be rare as such teams of contractors are so expensive and might be reported or seen. Buying any new computer or network device with a CC or online is a risk if working in the media. Expect upgrades as delivered. Use and buy any such devices for fictional creativity.
    VPN and onion routing are not much use for the media given the public court reporting about online tracking at a now low cost per case.

    Democracy and public interaction and the fear of been reported will be very chilling for democracy.
    The other real issue will be for the reader comments in the UK. Expect SJW reporting to gov and teams of gov staff looking over any and all comments.
    A good VPN well outside 5 eye nations or the EU might still allow freedom of speech until the comment is removed or comments get turned off.
    Credit card use on a VPN would also be an issue.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  85. Airstrip 1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Official Notice: Post-Brexit "UK" renamed as "Airstrip One".

  86. Is this actually true? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I cannot find any other sources for this, just zdnet.

  87. But it's the metadata that counts! by tomxor · · Score: 1

    --- This comment was deleted by the UK government ---

  88. 1984 by Mittengrabber · · Score: 1

    Was, I believe, a work of dystopian fiction, not a handbook. Now was is Eurasia or Eastasia we need all this protection against?

  89. There's a simple solution to this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Strict limits on the size and scope of government.

    Of course, that will never happen, because a strictly limited government can't be exploited for personal gain.

  90. extreme surveillance law ever passed in democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At last I checked, the Queen would disagree with that label for her Monarchy.
    Labels...the same disdane for when they refer to the United States as a Democracy.

    FYI: It is a Constitutional Republic!

    but I suppose that is better than a "anarcho-syndicalist commune"
    "Oh, king, eh, very nice. And 'ow'd you get that, eh?
            (he reaches his destination and stops, dropping the cart)
            By exploiting the workers! By 'angin' on to outdated imperialist dogma
            which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society.
            If there's ever going to be any progress,"
    "You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! "
    "Help!, Help!" "I'm being repressed" "You saw it didn't you?"

  91. Tracking cookies by bigbang137 · · Score: 1

    Is there a single thing to protect me from cross-site tracking cookies and evercookies? How do I prevent one site's cookies from being used by another site?

    1. Re:Tracking cookies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Block all cookies.

  92. Grammarly anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "forces foreign firms to do that that"

  93. Re:Remind them that one day, their opposition can by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure that it's actually true. I'm a liberal in US, but I dabble in some hobbies that have a very strong conservative bias among its adherents (guns), and so I talk to these guys a lot, and, more importantly, hear them talk between each other. And their picture has been decidedly doom & gloom for a while now, even when "their" politicians are in office - they do acknowledge the reality of the demographic change, for example, and understand that it'll shift votes not in their favor long term. They're definitely more optimistic now with Trump in office, but I wouldn't say that it changed their long-term outlook much. They still see it as inevitable slope downwards to "socialism", with the only thing they can really do is putting up an occasional roadblock, like they did this year.

  94. Related by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every ISP is New Zealand is already required to make their equipment "Government Compatible".

  95. A petition to oppose, educate and inform by flashquartermaster · · Score: 1

    I believe we need to disseminate the information necessary to make this unworkable https://www.change.org/p/reque...