I'm a student at UT-Arlington, the next largest school in the UT System. Last October our Student Congress passed a resolution I wrote asking them to basically make it easier for students to be able to request to no longer use their Social Security Numbers as their ID # - UTA currently has a system in place where you can request to use a randomly generated ID# instead of your SSN, but no one knows about it and they don't advertise it or make it easy.
The administration's response was "Come Summer 2005, when we have our new Student Information System, we won't use anyone's SSN" but that in the meantime, we're screwed because they weren't going to change anything.
A month ago I discovered the 'secure' portion of the Housing department's website had been indexed by Google, including the ID # (Social Security Number) of all 1200+ residents living in the on-campus dorms. This highlighted the need for the immediate cessation of collecting and storing SSN's, so I've introduced a follow-up resolution our Student Congress is looking to pass soon basically demanding each department document every way they use SSN's and the security measures in place to protect them, after which we want a committee of students and faculty to go through the documentation and approve or deny their use and storage of the SSN's.
Our school paper, The Shorthorn (www.theshorthorn.com) is supposed to do a story in tomorrow's (Friday's) issue concerning the leak at UT-Austin and the fact that administrators so far at UT-Arlington are ignoring the need to provide secyrity for SSN's NOW, and not just in 2005.
It should be interesting to see if the administration has finally 'seen the light' and will listen to us, this time.
We need to spend real money, and NOT just to fund Boeing/Lockheed-Martin. We need to build a real fleet of ships that do what we need them to do. Small passenger craft.
I posted this elsewhere when talking about the Columbia disaster, but it's worth repeating. CONTACT YOUR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES!!
www.congress.org has all the info, just enter your zip code. And please, don't email them - write them a letter, mail it and fax it. Every senator and representative has local offices - look at their website, find the fax number for their local office and you can even save yourself the expense of a long distance fax.
There's enough questioning being done about the shuttle program now that we truly have a chance to see some great changes made.
I would also urge you to contact the members of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee (link) as well as the Subcommittee on Science, Technology and Space (link).
The House has a similar committee, the Science Committee (link) and the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee (link).
Please, if you can take the time to post to Slashdot about this, you can take the time to contact your senators and representatives about this and truly make a difference. Urge them to push for a new fleet, urge them to supply the money NASA needs to do so. Just please take the time to get in touch with them.
There is perhaps an outside chance that Congress will fund a completely new fleet.
I, too, thought about this - we have so many new designs and experimental designs, engines, etc that NASA and others have developed - now seems to be the perfect time to fund the development of a new orbiter.
Not only did I think about this, but I decided to do something to make it happen. I used congress.org to find the info on my US senator and representatives and found out that one of them, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson, is on the Senate Subcommittee on Science, Space and Technology. I wrote her a letter expressing my feelings about the disaster but also my feelings that the astronauts would want to see NASA florish - and not flounder in 2 years of virtual exile from space as was the case after the Challenger disaster. I found her local office's fax number off of her website and her mailing address in DC (Fax and mail are MUCH better - email and web forms aren't taken too seriously yet by most congressional staff members) and sent her this letter...I'd urge all of you who would like to see a 'silver lining' in this to contact your senators and your representatives, as well. This accident is the perfect time for NASA to push for, and get, a new orbiter design.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
Re:Why is OSS dangerous in the eyes of Candian law
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Tracking Mafiaboy
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Ahh...that's good to hear.
I don't know how much weight the Canadian courts put on case law, but any time I hear of judgements that might concern OSS in the US I get a little edgy - there's very little precedent set for open source software here, and Microsoft is always lobbying to maintain their advantage.
Why is OSS dangerous in the eyes of Candian law?
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From the article - "The judge also prohibited him from possessing any software not commercially available"
What ramifications might this have for OSS in Canada? How often is this broad of a judgement made?
Seriously consider doing both...I'm a junior in the Computer Science and Engineering program at the University of Texas at Arlington (http://www-cse.uta.edu) and I love it. Not only am I getting a firm grounding in both CS and CE, they're also using the combination to teach such things as software engineering, engineering management and to give you a broad background in engineering. UTA CSE graduates are currently dominating the incredible technology environment that is growing in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex here in Texas.
My primary criteria was to find a school accredited both in the computer sciences (look for a 'CSAB' accredidation) and computer engineering (This one is from ABET) and a school that jus focused on CSE - I didn't want a program that was just a CS program that they tacked a few courses onto, I wanted a program that was designed from the ground up as a CSE program, not just a double major. And it's really been worth it - not only do I have a deep knowledge of programming, but I can peer deeper and actually comprehend what's going on at the chip-level and not only diagnosis problems easier because of it, but write highly optimized code.
Check it out, the website has a bunch of info, as well as the UTA website...look at http://www-ais2.uta.edu/cat/compsci.shtml for the actual pages of the undergrad catalog that detail the CSE program, it's requirements and it's goals. If you have any questions, email me!
Or better yet, try Computer Science and Engineering - I wish I had the link someone gave me a few years ago listing all the doubly accredited schools that had full-fledged CSE programs, but I know there's a handful of schools that do it. Try and find a school that does just CSE or that's their primary focus and it's not just some add-on degree plan for their CS or EE degree. Basically, CSE is a mix of CS, CE, EE and general engineering. It's VERY difficult, but you get the skills to do just about anything and everything in the computer world and learn a lot about engineering prinicples. I'm in the CSE program at UTA - I'm in the middle of my 2nd year and I've already had CSE classes, EE classes, IE classes, physics classes, insane amounts of math classes...pretty much the same grounding in engineering that AE's, ME's and EE's have to get. It's difficult, but here it the Metroplex not only do CSE's tend to get great jobs, the starting pay is good too since your engineering skills make you an asset because you can move further up the ladder into software engineering and technical team leadership.
I would love to be the person who has to try and explain to the lawyers, judge, etc why even after the Napster servers go down people are still using Napster. =)
When is AMD going to produce that promised Dual Setup anyway??
Everything I heard varies from this summer to this winter, but it sounds like it's at least going to be -sometime- in 2K. My question is - will they debut their multiprocessor solution using Athlons or their new "Thunderbirds"?
The real question is, will I be able to wait long enough to get a "Spitfire"...
The Spitfire is going to be their next "value" processor - of course no one knows much about AMD's next line, but the Athlon might be a better buy now...
I'm waiting for "Thunderbird" - their next processor series in the Athlon line...
After that we'll hack a permission system to allow people to decide if their words are for Slashdot only, or may be redistributed if this ever comes up again.
I'm hoping you're not just going to include the two extremes - "No, you can't use this for anything else" and "Yes, you can use this for anything". A middle option is needed such as "Contact me at:... to get permission to use this comment " - then make it the responsiblity of the user to be sure to keep that info updated.
Hey...yeah, by this same philosophy (The whole - hey, there's a copyright notice and you still own the stuff, but this is a public forum so anyone who wants to can reprint your comments!) couldn't someone decide to, say, print a newspaper using Slashdot headlines and stories? After all, each story is just the original posting that starts off the main thread of comments in this self-proclaimed "public forum".
Perhaps Andover would look at things differently if the situation was reversed like this...
Thanks for the calm response...sorry my original post wasn't as well...yesterday was a bad day. 4 exams in 2 days and no sleep can do that to a person.
And I realize my name and phone number are in my comments to the FTC that I posted the link to. I thought long and hard about removing them, but when I submit my final comment to the FTC I'm going to include my contact information and they post all the comments they consider onto the web as well, so it's going to be out there either way. Plus I never answer my phone - I let the answering machine get it and if I'm around and it's not someone whose voice I recognize I just push "Stop".
My research into telemarketing has been somewhat of a crash course (Although I'd like to consider myself fairly good at these things - once I'm -finally- out of school I hope to have a job with a foundation such as the one you work with, perhaps) and you'll have to forgive me, I'm having a hard time separating my feelings from the issue so I'm not exactly being a totally unbiased, rational person about it all.
I agree with you that laws designed for computers, DDoS attacks, etc should not be used to fight telemarketers and vice versa - both issues are already being confused enough (For instance, most people cry out to the FCC about telemarketing violations whenever the FTC actually has just as much or more jurisdiction over these such things. And I don't know if I'd want EITHER organization dealing with computers), mixing them together couldn't help anything.
I think the point I was trying to make in my post was that a lot of people are claiming that the telemarketers have the "right to free speech" meaning "They can say whatever they want!" and then these people are using this to claim that there is some first amendment protection against the regulation of the telemarketing industry. As you point out, this isn't true because the actions of the industry (including and especially the calls they make and how they conduct them) are regulated as actions, not as speech. You just put it in much more clear and well-thought out terms than I did! Like I said, yesterday was a rough day and overall I've had some problems (which I think are understandable, to an extent) separating myself from the issue. That's one of the reasons I'm letting my comments to the FTC "cool" before I go over them and finish them up and submit them (The deadline is a week from Thursday - April 27th, to be exact if anyone wants to tell the FTC anything about the Telemarketing Sales Rule...I'd figure a lot more people would've commented on such a central piece of regulation concerning telemarketing! In the first forum I'd say 90% of the participants were representing the telemarketing industry. Things aren't looking good.).
And thanks for the polite response. Hopefully I'll manage to find the time soon to put together a more cohesive and informative page on this issue soon.
The Constitution names the rights of individuals, not companies/corporate entities. The right to free speech is an individual right. A corporation cannot claim that they can sell a product as "100% Pure" whenever it contains impurities because they have "a right to free speech". That's why the FTC regulates what telemarketers can and can't do. IF these regulations are enforced or not is a totally different story though.
(3) "Will laws be written to combat such behavior? Can such laws be written?"
" No, no and no. "Congress shall make no law," the First Amendment tells us, to abridge the freedom of speech. That first amendment protects lots of things that are odious to many people - including, despite the best efforts of some wrong-headed Members of Congress, flag burning. "
Actually, yes, yes and yes. Congress passed the Telemarketing and Consumer Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act in 1994 which then led to the Federal Trade Commission's Telemarketing Sales Rule. See my comment at http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/03/26/22102 17&cid=261 or a document I've put together for the Federal Trade Commission concerning the Telemarketing Sales Rule at http://www.galahad.cx/FTCComment.html
It's frightening that someone who works for an institution with a name like "The Center for the Study of Technology and Society" doesn't realize that the First Amendment and all the legal precedents set by the Supreme Court deal with INDVIDUALS and that telemarketers are calling on the behalf of a corporation/company. The activities of a company CAN be and ARE regulated, including what they CAN and CANNOT SAY.
There are laws in place to greatly regulate telemarketing - the problem is there are some rather scary loopholes that are being abused and enforcement is patchy at best. Again, see the comment I posted earlier.
PS. Does anyone know how to contact Cliff (Or if you're reading this Cliff, email me!)? - I'd like to talk to him about some of this.
I've been thinking about putting together a page on telemarketing, I've been doing a lot of research and found out a lot of crap lately. I wish I had because there's no way I can post everything here!
A few really crappy things about the telemarketing industry:
1) They hire prisoners. I personally am not making any decision on the merit of this process, so let's not get into a big debate about that. The thing that I take exception to is that they don't really monitor these prisoners well and convicted rapists, etc are using these telemarketing companies to contact minors and attempt to establish a "relationship" of some form with them.
I must admit I have a personal interest in this - my girlfriend (I'm 18, she's 16) was recently conned by a telemarketer (I've since seen the transcript of the conversation - this dude was SLICK...I think even a genius geek like myself might've fallen for it) who managed to get her name from her...he then used the data the telemarketing company gave him to write her a letter. Turns out this fellah is a convicted felon in the Utah State Pen...and this wasn't exactly a "Hi, how ya doin`, my name's Bob" sort of letter. Her mom saw it and freaked and has since contacted the Utah State Prison people...they've been really helpful, but the company that hires these prisoners, Sandstar (Who happens to run http://www.familyfilms.com of all sites!) has basically said "We're terribly sorry" and then continued business as usual - and this kind of stuff happens OFTEN. ABC News in Utah said they were interested in the story, but they wanted to finish up one they were already working on involving the same thing happening to a girl from Utah with another company & prison!
2) This is the part that really pisses me off. Lots of people have posted about the "do not call lists" - this is a part of the Telemarketing Sales Rule (Which the FTC is currently reviewing - check http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/02/tsr.htm - they ARE accepting public comments via email but only until Thursday April 27th, 2000). The TSR means well but it's NOT WORKING. Try bringing up charges in a small claims court against a company for violating the TSR by calling you after you were asked to be placed on the do not call list. These companies disappear, change names, go under, merge, etc so often that by the time the case comes up, you have no hope of even getting the 500$. Plus they often use delaying tactics because by law after 24 months they can purge their records.
The telemarketing industry is VERY screwed up. I have already put together a 10 page analysis of this all and the Telemarketing Sales Rule and all the problems with it but that might be a bit excessive to post here.
OT: Anyone else noticed that is dying? I haven't seen that used much at all lately...it's just so much more versitile and less AOL-ish than:)
Anywayz, I've posted my comment at: http://www.galahad.cx/FTCComment.html and the original message her mother sent out asking people to be wary of this practice at: http://www.galahad.cx/OriginalMessage.txt Please read them and feel free to email me about some of the efforts I'm organizing to get the Telemarketing Sales Rule patched up so that this and many other practices will at least be regulated. Or even email the FTC as detailed at http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/02/tsr.htm with your comments sometime before April 27th - we can use all the help we can get. And the Telemarketing Sales Rule covers ALL aspects of telemarketing, so feel free to comment on anything and everything about it on your mind, just please don't flame them too much.
Oh, and galahad.cx is my little 486 Linux box on a cable modem, so it might be kinda slow to respond at times. Sorry!
As soon as I read this I rushed to post this great idea I had...then I realized maybe I should read the other posts, don't want to get -1 (Redundant)!
Anywayz - here's what's really interesting about this to me - not so much that Yahoo, etc could get in trouble for linking to 2600 if 2600 gets in trouble for linking to people who are linking to DeCSS...but the fact that if they got in trouble for that and a judge ruled a site responsible for the links on sites they link to theoretically EVERY site on the Internet (except one that has NO links) would be in violationg of some US law somewhere. I wish I could remember what it said, but wasn't there a story on/. not too long ago about how many clicks wide the 'net was at the time? I'm sure that somewhere on/. someone's posted a url that points to a page that has a link somewhere that points to something a judge/congressman/etc has decided should be illegal...
UTA has NOT banned Napster or mp3s and announced a few weeks ago they plan on NOT banning mp3s or Napster. I submitted the article to Slashdot but it was, of course, reject. Ahh well. Pretty cool, huh? And they've announced plans to increase our bandwidth...there's obviously ways to work WITH the traffic caused by Napster instead of just banning it - there's almost 20,000 students here and a lot of them are on the network, but somehow they're managing to get us pleanty of bandwidth for educational and slightly less educational activities.;)
I'd appreciate it if you don't insult me by saying things like "I am probably thankful I don't have to listen to YOUR music, Mr. Musician." unless you've actually listened to my music with an open mind. Thanks. Oh, and just to let you know, in adition to radio airplay I also recently received a 1000$ award for my music. So apparently not everyone feels the way you do.
Also, there is a MASSIVE difference between having talent and being a part of the commercial music industry. Your statement is like saying the only good software is the software a multimillion dollar company releases and promotes.
If people only want to listen to commercial music, why did almost 500,000 people download music from amp3.com in the past MONTH alone. I don't know the numbers for mp3.com, but they could quite easily be double that. It is obvious that there is a lot more to independent music than "awful racket".
Oh, and you said "So tell me again how the people who have content that people want to listen to are clamoring for MP3..." - if you had ever even visited any of the mp3 sites you probably would've seen the headline "AMP3.com Artist Chris Perez Nominated for Grammy". Chris Perez also won a 1995 Grammy, but then again, I'm sure no one wants to listen to his music.
"...against people publishing the DeCSS source code. His ruling specifically finds that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (which prohibits the publication of computer programs designed to circumvent copy protection)..."
Key words being "source code" and "computer programs". All the sites that have been hit with the injunction should put up...ahem...something that is not "source code" or a "computer program". It shouldn't be that hard to create a non-source code, non-computer program version of decss! Why hasn't someone done this yet? C'mon, the Linux/OpenSource/Tech culture is smarter than this! Do it!
As an independent musician, let me say this: SDMI sucks. I totally agree with you that SDMI is going overboard in attempting to protect the musician's interests.
Wait a second...I just thought of something...although it's being touted as a tool to protect the interests of musicians, how many musicians do you hear talking about how much they want to see more SDMI stuff? Indeed, more artists are supporting mp3 than SDMI, and mp3 *supposedly* harms musician's interests. You hear more from record labels about SDMI than anyone - they're just trying to protect THEIR interests. SDMI will allow them to further control how, where and when you listen to your music. They don't care if it makes people less interested in listening to the music from the artists people think are supporting SDMI, they'll just put out more and more bands to keep their profits up.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm a student at UT-Arlington, the next largest school in the UT System. Last October our Student Congress passed a resolution I wrote asking them to basically make it easier for students to be able to request to no longer use their Social Security Numbers as their ID # - UTA currently has a system in place where you can request to use a randomly generated ID# instead of your SSN, but no one knows about it and they don't advertise it or make it easy.
The administration's response was "Come Summer 2005, when we have our new Student Information System, we won't use anyone's SSN" but that in the meantime, we're screwed because they weren't going to change anything.
A month ago I discovered the 'secure' portion of the Housing department's website had been indexed by Google, including the ID # (Social Security Number) of all 1200+ residents living in the on-campus dorms. This highlighted the need for the immediate cessation of collecting and storing SSN's, so I've introduced a follow-up resolution our Student Congress is looking to pass soon basically demanding each department document every way they use SSN's and the security measures in place to protect them, after which we want a committee of students and faculty to go through the documentation and approve or deny their use and storage of the SSN's.
Our school paper, The Shorthorn (www.theshorthorn.com) is supposed to do a story in tomorrow's (Friday's) issue concerning the leak at UT-Austin and the fact that administrators so far at UT-Arlington are ignoring the need to provide secyrity for SSN's NOW, and not just in 2005.
It should be interesting to see if the administration has finally 'seen the light' and will listen to us, this time.
We need to spend real money, and NOT just to fund Boeing/Lockheed-Martin. We need to build a real fleet of ships that do what we need them to do. Small passenger craft.
I posted this elsewhere when talking about the Columbia disaster, but it's worth repeating. CONTACT YOUR SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES!!
www.congress.org has all the info, just enter your zip code. And please, don't email them - write them a letter, mail it and fax it. Every senator and representative has local offices - look at their website, find the fax number for their local office and you can even save yourself the expense of a long distance fax.
There's enough questioning being done about the shuttle program now that we truly have a chance to see some great changes made.
I would also urge you to contact the members of the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee (link) as well as the Subcommittee on Science, Technology and Space (link).
The House has a similar committee, the Science Committee (link) and the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee (link).
Please, if you can take the time to post to Slashdot about this, you can take the time to contact your senators and representatives about this and truly make a difference. Urge them to push for a new fleet, urge them to supply the money NASA needs to do so. Just please take the time to get in touch with them.
There is perhaps an outside chance that Congress will fund a completely new fleet.
I, too, thought about this - we have so many new designs and experimental designs, engines, etc that NASA and others have developed - now seems to be the perfect time to fund the development of a new orbiter.
Not only did I think about this, but I decided to do something to make it happen. I used congress.org to find the info on my US senator and representatives and found out that one of them, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson, is on the Senate Subcommittee on Science, Space and Technology. I wrote her a letter expressing my feelings about the disaster but also my feelings that the astronauts would want to see NASA florish - and not flounder in 2 years of virtual exile from space as was the case after the Challenger disaster. I found her local office's fax number off of her website and her mailing address in DC (Fax and mail are MUCH better - email and web forms aren't taken too seriously yet by most congressional staff members) and sent her this letter...I'd urge all of you who would like to see a 'silver lining' in this to contact your senators and your representatives, as well. This accident is the perfect time for NASA to push for, and get, a new orbiter design.
Anyway, just my thoughts...
Ahh...that's good to hear.
I don't know how much weight the Canadian courts put on case law, but any time I hear of judgements that might concern OSS in the US I get a little edgy - there's very little precedent set for open source software here, and Microsoft is always lobbying to maintain their advantage.
From the article - "The judge also prohibited him from possessing any software not commercially available"
What ramifications might this have for OSS in Canada? How often is this broad of a judgement made?
Seriously consider doing both...I'm a junior in the Computer Science and Engineering program at the University of Texas at Arlington (http://www-cse.uta.edu) and I love it. Not only am I getting a firm grounding in both CS and CE, they're also using the combination to teach such things as software engineering, engineering management and to give you a broad background in engineering. UTA CSE graduates are currently dominating the incredible technology environment that is growing in the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex here in Texas.
My primary criteria was to find a school accredited both in the computer sciences (look for a 'CSAB' accredidation) and computer engineering (This one is from ABET) and a school that jus focused on CSE - I didn't want a program that was just a CS program that they tacked a few courses onto, I wanted a program that was designed from the ground up as a CSE program, not just a double major. And it's really been worth it - not only do I have a deep knowledge of programming, but I can peer deeper and actually comprehend what's going on at the chip-level and not only diagnosis problems easier because of it, but write highly optimized code.
Check it out, the website has a bunch of info, as well as the UTA website...look at http://www-ais2.uta.edu/cat/compsci.shtml for the actual pages of the undergrad catalog that detail the CSE program, it's requirements and it's goals. If you have any questions, email me!
Or better yet, try Computer Science and Engineering - I wish I had the link someone gave me a few years ago listing all the doubly accredited schools that had full-fledged CSE programs, but I know there's a handful of schools that do it. Try and find a school that does just CSE or that's their primary focus and it's not just some add-on degree plan for their CS or EE degree. Basically, CSE is a mix of CS, CE, EE and general engineering. It's VERY difficult, but you get the skills to do just about anything and everything in the computer world and learn a lot about engineering prinicples. I'm in the CSE program at UTA - I'm in the middle of my 2nd year and I've already had CSE classes, EE classes, IE classes, physics classes, insane amounts of math classes...pretty much the same grounding in engineering that AE's, ME's and EE's have to get. It's difficult, but here it the Metroplex not only do CSE's tend to get great jobs, the starting pay is good too since your engineering skills make you an asset because you can move further up the ladder into software engineering and technical team leadership.
I would love to be the person who has to try and explain to the lawyers, judge, etc why even after the Napster servers go down people are still using Napster. =)
Love live OpenNap!
Don't forget that this disused lavatory is in a basement where the lights (and the stairs) have gone out.
Isn't that where everyone keeps their important documents?
When is AMD going to produce that promised Dual Setup anyway??
Everything I heard varies from this summer to this winter, but it sounds like it's at least going to be -sometime- in 2K. My question is - will they debut their multiprocessor solution using Athlons or their new "Thunderbirds"?
Anyone heard anything?
The real question is, will I be able to wait long enough to get a "Spitfire"...
The Spitfire is going to be their next "value" processor - of course no one knows much about AMD's next line, but the Athlon might be a better buy now...
I'm waiting for "Thunderbird" - their next processor series in the Athlon line...
After that we'll hack a permission system to allow people to decide if their words are for Slashdot only, or may be redistributed if this ever comes up again.
... to get permission to use this comment " - then make it the responsiblity of the user to be sure to keep that info updated.
I'm hoping you're not just going to include the two extremes - "No, you can't use this for anything else" and "Yes, you can use this for anything". A middle option is needed such as "Contact me at:
Hey...yeah, by this same philosophy (The whole - hey, there's a copyright notice and you still own the stuff, but this is a public forum so anyone who wants to can reprint your comments!) couldn't someone decide to, say, print a newspaper using Slashdot headlines and stories? After all, each story is just the original posting that starts off the main thread of comments in this self-proclaimed "public forum".
Perhaps Andover would look at things differently if the situation was reversed like this...
Oh, and if you're got a second, drop me an email (you have my address from that FTC comment I posted). Thanks.
Thanks for the calm response...sorry my original post wasn't as well...yesterday was a bad day. 4 exams in 2 days and no sleep can do that to a person.
And I realize my name and phone number are in my comments to the FTC that I posted the link to. I thought long and hard about removing them, but when I submit my final comment to the FTC I'm going to include my contact information and they post all the comments they consider onto the web as well, so it's going to be out there either way. Plus I never answer my phone - I let the answering machine get it and if I'm around and it's not someone whose voice I recognize I just push "Stop".
My research into telemarketing has been somewhat of a crash course (Although I'd like to consider myself fairly good at these things - once I'm -finally- out of school I hope to have a job with a foundation such as the one you work with, perhaps) and you'll have to forgive me, I'm having a hard time separating my feelings from the issue so I'm not exactly being a totally unbiased, rational person about it all.
I agree with you that laws designed for computers, DDoS attacks, etc should not be used to fight telemarketers and vice versa - both issues are already being confused enough (For instance, most people cry out to the FCC about telemarketing violations whenever the FTC actually has just as much or more jurisdiction over these such things. And I don't know if I'd want EITHER organization dealing with computers), mixing them together couldn't help anything.
I think the point I was trying to make in my post was that a lot of people are claiming that the telemarketers have the "right to free speech" meaning "They can say whatever they want!" and then these people are using this to claim that there is some first amendment protection against the regulation of the telemarketing industry. As you point out, this isn't true because the actions of the industry (including and especially the calls they make and how they conduct them) are regulated as actions, not as speech. You just put it in much more clear and well-thought out terms than I did! Like I said, yesterday was a rough day and overall I've had some problems (which I think are understandable, to an extent) separating myself from the issue. That's one of the reasons I'm letting my comments to the FTC "cool" before I go over them and finish them up and submit them (The deadline is a week from Thursday - April 27th, to be exact if anyone wants to tell the FTC anything about the Telemarketing Sales Rule...I'd figure a lot more people would've commented on such a central piece of regulation concerning telemarketing! In the first forum I'd say 90% of the participants were representing the telemarketing industry. Things aren't looking good.).
And thanks for the polite response. Hopefully I'll manage to find the time soon to put together a more cohesive and informative page on this issue soon.
The Constitution names the rights of individuals, not companies/corporate entities. The right to free speech is an individual right. A corporation cannot claim that they can sell a product as "100% Pure" whenever it contains impurities because they have "a right to free speech". That's why the FTC regulates what telemarketers can and can't do. IF these regulations are enforced or not is a totally different story though.
(3) "Will laws be written to combat such behavior? Can such laws be written?"
2 17&cid=261 or a document I've put together for the Federal Trade Commission concerning the Telemarketing Sales Rule at http://www.galahad.cx/FTCComment.html
" No, no and no. "Congress shall make no law," the First Amendment tells us, to abridge the freedom of speech. That first amendment protects lots of things that are odious to many people - including, despite the best efforts of some wrong-headed Members of Congress, flag burning. "
Actually, yes, yes and yes. Congress passed the Telemarketing and Consumer Fraud and Abuse Prevention Act in 1994 which then led to the Federal Trade Commission's Telemarketing Sales Rule. See my comment at http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=00/03/26/2210
It's frightening that someone who works for an institution with a name like "The Center for the Study of Technology and Society" doesn't realize that the First Amendment and all the legal precedents set by the Supreme Court deal with INDVIDUALS and that telemarketers are calling on the behalf of a corporation/company. The activities of a company CAN be and ARE regulated, including what they CAN and CANNOT SAY.
There are laws in place to greatly regulate telemarketing - the problem is there are some rather scary loopholes that are being abused and enforcement is patchy at best. Again, see the comment I posted earlier.
PS. Does anyone know how to contact Cliff (Or if you're reading this Cliff, email me!)? - I'd like to talk to him about some of this.
I've been thinking about putting together a page on telemarketing, I've been doing a lot of research and found out a lot of crap lately. I wish I had because there's no way I can post everything here!
:)
A few really crappy things about the telemarketing industry:
1) They hire prisoners. I personally am not making any decision on the merit of this process, so let's not get into a big debate about that. The thing that I take exception to is that they don't really monitor these prisoners well and convicted rapists, etc are using these telemarketing companies to contact minors and attempt to establish a "relationship" of some form with them.
I must admit I have a personal interest in this - my girlfriend (I'm 18, she's 16) was recently conned by a telemarketer (I've since seen the transcript of the conversation - this dude was SLICK...I think even a genius geek like myself might've fallen for it) who managed to get her name from her...he then used the data the telemarketing company gave him to write her a letter. Turns out this fellah is a convicted felon in the Utah State Pen...and this wasn't exactly a "Hi, how ya doin`, my name's Bob" sort of letter. Her mom saw it and freaked and has since contacted the Utah State Prison people...they've been really helpful, but the company that hires these prisoners, Sandstar (Who happens to run http://www.familyfilms.com of all sites!) has basically said "We're terribly sorry" and then continued business as usual - and this kind of stuff happens OFTEN. ABC News in Utah said they were interested in the story, but they wanted to finish up one they were already working on involving the same thing happening to a girl from Utah with another company & prison!
2) This is the part that really pisses me off. Lots of people have posted about the "do not call lists" - this is a part of the Telemarketing Sales Rule (Which the FTC is currently reviewing - check http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/02/tsr.htm - they ARE accepting public comments via email but only until Thursday April 27th, 2000). The TSR means well but it's NOT WORKING. Try bringing up charges in a small claims court against a company for violating the TSR by calling you after you were asked to be placed on the do not call list. These companies disappear, change names, go under, merge, etc so often that by the time the case comes up, you have no hope of even getting the 500$. Plus they often use delaying tactics because by law after 24 months they can purge their records.
The telemarketing industry is VERY screwed up. I have already put together a 10 page analysis of this all and the Telemarketing Sales Rule and all the problems with it but that might be a bit excessive to post here.
OT: Anyone else noticed that is dying? I haven't seen that used much at all lately...it's just so much more versitile and less AOL-ish than
Anywayz, I've posted my comment at:
http://www.galahad.cx/FTCComment.html
and the original message her mother sent out asking people to be wary of this practice at:
http://www.galahad.cx/OriginalMessage.txt
Please read them and feel free to email me about some of the efforts I'm organizing to get the Telemarketing Sales Rule patched up so that this and many other practices will at least be regulated. Or even email the FTC as detailed at http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/02/tsr.htm with your comments sometime before April 27th - we can use all the help we can get. And the Telemarketing Sales Rule covers ALL aspects of telemarketing, so feel free to comment on anything and everything about it on your mind, just please don't flame them too much.
Oh, and galahad.cx is my little 486 Linux box on a cable modem, so it might be kinda slow to respond at times. Sorry!
As soon as I read this I rushed to post this great idea I had...then I realized maybe I should read the other posts, don't want to get -1 (Redundant)!
/. not too long ago about how many clicks wide the 'net was at the time? I'm sure that somewhere on /. someone's posted a url that points to a page that has a link somewhere that points to something a judge/congressman/etc has decided should be illegal...
Anywayz - here's what's really interesting about this to me - not so much that Yahoo, etc could get in trouble for linking to 2600 if 2600 gets in trouble for linking to people who are linking to DeCSS...but the fact that if they got in trouble for that and a judge ruled a site responsible for the links on sites they link to theoretically EVERY site on the Internet (except one that has NO links) would be in violationg of some US law somewhere. I wish I could remember what it said, but wasn't there a story on
Ahh! So Sneakernet supports tunneling? Cool! ;)
UTA has NOT banned Napster or mp3s and announced a few weeks ago they plan on NOT banning mp3s or Napster. I submitted the article to Slashdot but it was, of course, reject. Ahh well. Pretty cool, huh? And they've announced plans to increase our bandwidth...there's obviously ways to work WITH the traffic caused by Napster instead of just banning it - there's almost 20,000 students here and a lot of them are on the network, but somehow they're managing to get us pleanty of bandwidth for educational and slightly less educational activities. ;)
I'd appreciate it if you don't insult me by saying things like "I am probably thankful I don't have to listen to YOUR music, Mr. Musician." unless you've actually listened to my music with an open mind. Thanks. Oh, and just to let you know, in adition to radio airplay I also recently received a 1000$ award for my music. So apparently not everyone feels the way you do.
Also, there is a MASSIVE difference between having talent and being a part of the commercial music industry. Your statement is like saying the only good software is the software a multimillion dollar company releases and promotes.
If people only want to listen to commercial music, why did almost 500,000 people download music from amp3.com in the past MONTH alone. I don't know the numbers for mp3.com, but they could quite easily be double that. It is obvious that there is a lot more to independent music than "awful racket".
Oh, and you said "So tell me again how the people who have content that people want to listen to are clamoring for MP3..." - if you had ever even visited any of the mp3 sites you probably would've seen the headline "AMP3.com Artist Chris Perez Nominated for Grammy". Chris Perez also won a 1995 Grammy, but then again, I'm sure no one wants to listen to his music.
"...against people publishing the DeCSS source code. His ruling specifically finds that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (which prohibits the publication of computer programs designed to circumvent copy protection)..."
Key words being "source code" and "computer programs". All the sites that have been hit with the injunction should put up...ahem...something that is not "source code" or a "computer program". It shouldn't be that hard to create a non-source code, non-computer program version of decss! Why hasn't someone done this yet? C'mon, the Linux/OpenSource/Tech culture is smarter than this! Do it!
As an independent musician, let me say this: SDMI sucks. I totally agree with you that SDMI is going overboard in attempting to protect the musician's interests.
Wait a second...I just thought of something...although it's being touted as a tool to protect the interests of musicians, how many musicians do you hear talking about how much they want to see more SDMI stuff? Indeed, more artists are supporting mp3 than SDMI, and mp3 *supposedly* harms musician's interests. You hear more from record labels about SDMI than anyone - they're just trying to protect THEIR interests. SDMI will allow them to further control how, where and when you listen to your music. They don't care if it makes people less interested in listening to the music from the artists people think are supporting SDMI, they'll just put out more and more bands to keep their profits up.
Heh, there's a lot more music sites than just mp3.com! Check www.amp3.com, www.musicbuilder.com, etc.
I do believe it's obvious that the RIAA is just afraid of the mp3 technology. Pretty stupid, huh?