No, it's just everyone thinks, any place other than his home town, that everyone known about, is something like Manhattan. Littleton, for example, is really an enormous discontinuous splotch of suburban sprawl inside a larger and more discontinuous splotch of the same that is Denver Metro Area.
This is exactly what I mean by "extreme Nationalists" -- people who believe that everyone who does not belong to the "master race", owes something to their country.
And yet you are engaging in free speech too. Although I must say, instead of convincing me, you are making me smile.
My speech would have more effect if I would have to ignore, or find ways to go around bans. As it's evident now, it has only slightly more effect than timecube despite all the worthless "freedom".
Actually, I do. You are quite a rude person to tell people they don't know anything all the time.
I know those things because I have seen them personally because I was there, to see dissolution of USSR, its transition to "freedom", and could compare the result with the oldest, most "free" society on Earth, where I have spent the rest of my life. It's a safe assumption that everyone telling me that what I have seen is wrong, was not there, and merely repeats whatever he heard from his friendly propaganda workers.
I feel that you must be very poor at relating to people, and that is why you think other people are manipulated by propaganda: because you have trouble understanding other people. Stop being rude and try to understand what people think. Wake up, and people will listen to you, and then you will appreciate free speech.
If you did not notice, the discussion is about facts, so your armchair psychology is completely irrelevant.
Those who can get no one to listen to their ideas don't appreciate free speech.
That category includes everyone except top executives of large companies, political leaders, and some people involved in performance arts. "Free speech" does absolutely nothing positive for anyone except rich and famous.
This is clearly why you don't appreciate it.
Indeed, I do not appreciate free speech that amplifies voices of political and business elite, and drowns everyone else among idiotic kooks.
Clearly that's how it's worked in every country that has lost their right to free speech. No, actually it hasn't.
Actually you know absolutely nothing about it, and the only political speech that introduced any significant political change, was illegal at the time, in this or other form.
You're tapping here into the idea of otherness [wikipedia.org] here, and it works beyond just race; in fact, race is an inelegant way of exploiting otherness. In modern politics we divide people not just on race, but on ideology, income, region, profession, and many other traits all at once. We've gotten far beyond mere race-baiting.
It's a known unfixable exploit of common vulnerability of human mind that for the foreseeable future can be only counteracted by being kept out of public discourse. What means, restriction on some known-deceptive, known-exploitative speech is a necessity for the social progress at least until the point when society will become sufficiently educated to resist this on its own. QED.
Freedom of speech is actually the biggest political problem in Russia today.
Saying so multiple times does not make it any less false. And even if it was not false, you would have no way to know, so your opinion on this subject is worthless.
Some might say that Putin rigged the election, but in practice that doesn't matter because most people actually seem to support Putin. When he becomes unpopular, he will leave.
Good luck. CIA is already working full steam 24h a day trying to make him less popular than universally hated Libertarian stronghold Yabloko or almost universally hated Nationalists. If they can't, a bunch of shitheaded journalists won't accomplish it, either.
But without freedom of speech,
Without freedom of speech one can pay attention to those who speak, because they place their comfort and position in society on the line. When speech is cheap, no one listens (and no one should listen).
you cannot know whether there is a reason for a president to be voted out.
In a society with free speech, there can be only one reason -- he did not buy enough propaganda in the media. Nothing else matters.
Perhaps the Germans would have opposed Hitler had they known how bad the concentration camps actually were.
Ignorance of Germans at the time of WWII was entirely willful, and fueled by the extent of propaganda, not by inaccessibility of information. It did not take any significant effort to determine the direction of Nazi efforts, and it was not fundamentally important to know all the details to find it appaling.
Or maybe they would have approved it. But the German people didn't have the choice to approve or disapprove it, because they lacked information. That is what freedom of speech gives you collectively, choice. Sometimes your fellow-citizens suck though, that is a problem that will never go away, no matter what kind of government you have.
Propaganda of racism ALWAYS wins. It only loses when the government and media stop promoting it.
As for the right to food and shelter......go get your own job and work like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for your lazy ass to stay home and play games.
Again, this reveals that you know absolutely nothing about society. No one is poor and oppressed by choice.
No, I care about free speech because I've spent a lot of time thinking about these things.
While being bombarded with propaganda, and having no access to anything but your "free" society, and reports of your "free press".
Look at the problems that rise in places like Russia where you can get killed for the wrong speech.
Actually you can not, unless you exercise it in front of a mob boss or anti-government militant. What would be the case in US as well. However your "free press" is free to tell you that Russia is special, because it serves politicians that benefir from vilifying Russia.
You should consider that maybe you've read too much Noam Chomsky (or someone else) and have been affected by his propaganda.
No, I have spent too much time in both USSR (when it existed), post-USSR Russia/Belarus and US, so I was able to evaluate the impact of political, economical and social differences between all of them. And one of conclusions is that freedom of speech is a distraction at best, and delievery mechanism for deception of the public at worst.
Of course if you are unable to convince people to agree with you, then your speech won't have much power.
This is always the case in any environment when all speech is equal, but some is paid for.
But that is a personal failing, not a failure of speech itself.
There is nothing personal, or specific to any particular speech, about the system that deliberately drown all voices in the sea of idiocy, and requires resources of multinational corporation to produce, and sufficiently often distribute, anything that has a potential to affect the opinion of large number of people.
In your case, stop sounding so bitter and myopic and you'll have an easier time convincing people.
And do what, pretend that propaganda is truth, just because people like you are American patriots, who believe in their country's dominant ideology?
It appears you would consider any society that doesn't provide these to be a dictatorship?
No, I consider any society that does not provide those while being capable of, to be a shithole. The whole "freedom" thing is a distraction in those cases.
And you are right, I don't want society to guarantee those things for me.
What you do or don't want, means nothing, because more likely than not, you already have what others are deprived of. It's still immoral to deny it to others.
Other people might disagree though, and they can use reason and words to convince me of the rightness of their view.
And this is why no one sane wants direct democracy -- because it's impossible to convince absolute majority of people of anything other than some horrible racism.
I care about freedom of speech because I know that being able to criticize a government is a prerequisite for being able to change it.
You care about freedom of speech because you are told to, and you were constantly bombarded with a message of its importance by propaganda in self-serving media. If you applied any effort to this, you would easily recognize that being able to criticize the government without being able to convince it to accept your criticism is absolutely worthless, and being able to distribute your speech to large number of people is pointless when media can just shout you down using their own "freedom" to lie with impunity.
In reality, it's much easier to distribute any kind of important message in presence of censorship -- because then you are in a position to oppose the government to begin with, and you are not competing with every kook and every worthless attempt of entertainment. Any action has more impact when it requires courage.
Uh, you really believe dictatorship is a country the US wants to be destroyed?
Yes.
If a country doesn't have freedom of speech, it's not freedom. Seriously, there really are dictatorships in the world.
The only reason, you care about freedom of speech so much, is because press needs it to distribute advertisements and propaganda.
There is value in silencing clear, proven, deliberate lies, and there is nothing wrong in requiring some nontrivial effort for distribution of messages that most of society disapproves. Absolute freedom of speech was an idea, created when speech was nearly impossible to distribute without assistance of church and government, so no one expected it to eventually become worse than censorship. Now it is almost never used for any purpose other than deception of the public.
In any case, there are plenty of things far more important than "speech" -- healthy food, shelter, medicine, safety, education, justice. None of those things are guaranteed in your stupid society, even though it has more than enough resources to provide them to everyone. But instead of those most basic essentials you -- morons of the highest caliber that ever existed on Earth -- care about "speech".
The only good IDEs in the world are vi and emacs with GNU make. Qt works great with them. The rest are mostly useful as crutches for people who can't document their interfaces, but can tolerate working in one editor window, surrounded by thousand little barnacle-windows with useless lists and references.
The only definition of "dictatorship" is "a country that US government wants to be destroyed". If you think, you know another one, please recite it and ask yourself, if it gives any criteria for actually distinguishing between "dictatorship" and "culture that is in any way different from dominant American one". If that is not sufficient, ask yourself, if US a century and a half ago would be "dictatorship" or not.
I have to point out that: 1. No one in US has any way to determine if that satellite is or is not on intended orbit, unless orbit deteriorates (and then no one would care). 2. The source is mentioned as unnamed "US officials", what can just as well mean "CIA propaganda writers" (well, they are US officials... formally).
Look everyone, another American patriot who believes that everyone in the world loves his eagles, apple pie, and his idiots in the government. Other countries have their own idiots.
No, you need applications that support your content creation.
All Linux applications run in all Linux desktop environments, so this is a non-issue. Ignorant loudmouths such as yourself should shut up, and leave the discussions to people who actually use Linux.
Go fuck yourself. VMWare is a great solution for running Windows, because Windows is a shit OS that does not belong on hardware. No one should have to run another OS and build a fake environment just to be able to run Linux.
I'd call that pretty impressive -- automated terrain following in a helicopter isn't exactly an easy task.
Balancing standing on two wheels with high center of mass is a very difficult task for a human, however Segway does it easily with very primitive microcontroller.
Slashdot Mirror
No, it's just everyone thinks, any place other than his home town, that everyone known about, is something like Manhattan. Littleton, for example, is really an enormous discontinuous splotch of suburban sprawl inside a larger and more discontinuous splotch of the same that is Denver Metro Area.
I dare you to produce a list of things around you, cool or otherwise, that do not contain something made in China.
This is exactly what I mean by "extreme Nationalists" -- people who believe that everyone who does not belong to the "master race", owes something to their country.
This is how propaganda works -- make everyone believe that everyone else agrees with something, and you have a herd of sheep ready to be controlled.
And yet you are engaging in free speech too. Although I must say, instead of convincing me, you are making me smile.
My speech would have more effect if I would have to ignore, or find ways to go around bans. As it's evident now, it has only slightly more effect than timecube despite all the worthless "freedom".
Actually, I do. You are quite a rude person to tell people they don't know anything all the time.
I know those things because I have seen them personally because I was there, to see dissolution of USSR, its transition to "freedom", and could compare the result with the oldest, most "free" society on Earth, where I have spent the rest of my life. It's a safe assumption that everyone telling me that what I have seen is wrong, was not there, and merely repeats whatever he heard from his friendly propaganda workers.
I feel that you must be very poor at relating to people, and that is why you think other people are manipulated by propaganda: because you have trouble understanding other people. Stop being rude and try to understand what people think. Wake up, and people will listen to you, and then you will appreciate free speech.
If you did not notice, the discussion is about facts, so your armchair psychology is completely irrelevant.
Those who can get no one to listen to their ideas don't appreciate free speech.
That category includes everyone except top executives of large companies, political leaders, and some people involved in performance arts. "Free speech" does absolutely nothing positive for anyone except rich and famous.
This is clearly why you don't appreciate it.
Indeed, I do not appreciate free speech that amplifies voices of political and business elite, and drowns everyone else among idiotic kooks.
Clearly that's how it's worked in every country that has lost their right to free speech. No, actually it hasn't.
Actually you know absolutely nothing about it, and the only political speech that introduced any significant political change, was illegal at the time, in this or other form.
You're tapping here into the idea of otherness [wikipedia.org] here, and it works beyond just race; in fact, race is an inelegant way of exploiting otherness. In modern politics we divide people not just on race, but on ideology, income, region, profession, and many other traits all at once. We've gotten far beyond mere race-baiting.
It's a known unfixable exploit of common vulnerability of human mind that for the foreseeable future can be only counteracted by being kept out of public discourse. What means, restriction on some known-deceptive, known-exploitative speech is a necessity for the social progress at least until the point when society will become sufficiently educated to resist this on its own. QED.
Freedom of speech is actually the biggest political problem in Russia today.
Saying so multiple times does not make it any less false. And even if it was not false, you would have no way to know, so your opinion on this subject is worthless.
Some might say that Putin rigged the election, but in practice that doesn't matter because most people actually seem to support Putin. When he becomes unpopular, he will leave.
Good luck. CIA is already working full steam 24h a day trying to make him less popular than universally hated Libertarian stronghold Yabloko or almost universally hated Nationalists. If they can't, a bunch of shitheaded journalists won't accomplish it, either.
But without freedom of speech,
Without freedom of speech one can pay attention to those who speak, because they place their comfort and position in society on the line. When speech is cheap, no one listens (and no one should listen).
you cannot know whether there is a reason for a president to be voted out.
In a society with free speech, there can be only one reason -- he did not buy enough propaganda in the media. Nothing else matters.
Perhaps the Germans would have opposed Hitler had they known how bad the concentration camps actually were.
Ignorance of Germans at the time of WWII was entirely willful, and fueled by the extent of propaganda, not by inaccessibility of information. It did not take any significant effort to determine the direction of Nazi efforts, and it was not fundamentally important to know all the details to find it appaling.
Or maybe they would have approved it. But the German people didn't have the choice to approve or disapprove it, because they lacked information. That is what freedom of speech gives you collectively, choice. Sometimes your fellow-citizens suck though, that is a problem that will never go away, no matter what kind of government you have.
Propaganda of racism ALWAYS wins. It only loses when the government and media stop promoting it.
As for the right to food and shelter......go get your own job and work like everyone else. I'm not going to pay for your lazy ass to stay home and play games.
Again, this reveals that you know absolutely nothing about society. No one is poor and oppressed by choice.
No, I care about free speech because I've spent a lot of time thinking about these things.
While being bombarded with propaganda, and having no access to anything but your "free" society, and reports of your "free press".
Look at the problems that rise in places like Russia where you can get killed for the wrong speech.
Actually you can not, unless you exercise it in front of a mob boss or anti-government militant. What would be the case in US as well. However your "free press" is free to tell you that Russia is special, because it serves politicians that benefir from vilifying Russia.
You should consider that maybe you've read too much Noam Chomsky (or someone else) and have been affected by his propaganda.
No, I have spent too much time in both USSR (when it existed), post-USSR Russia/Belarus and US, so I was able to evaluate the impact of political, economical and social differences between all of them. And one of conclusions is that freedom of speech is a distraction at best, and delievery mechanism for deception of the public at worst.
Of course if you are unable to convince people to agree with you, then your speech won't have much power.
This is always the case in any environment when all speech is equal, but some is paid for.
But that is a personal failing, not a failure of speech itself.
There is nothing personal, or specific to any particular speech, about the system that deliberately drown all voices in the sea of idiocy, and requires resources of multinational corporation to produce, and sufficiently often distribute, anything that has a potential to affect the opinion of large number of people.
In your case, stop sounding so bitter and myopic and you'll have an easier time convincing people.
And do what, pretend that propaganda is truth, just because people like you are American patriots, who believe in their country's dominant ideology?
It appears you would consider any society that doesn't provide these to be a dictatorship?
No, I consider any society that does not provide those while being capable of, to be a shithole. The whole "freedom" thing is a distraction in those cases.
And you are right, I don't want society to guarantee those things for me.
What you do or don't want, means nothing, because more likely than not, you already have what others are deprived of. It's still immoral to deny it to others.
Other people might disagree though, and they can use reason and words to convince me of the rightness of their view.
And this is why no one sane wants direct democracy -- because it's impossible to convince absolute majority of people of anything other than some horrible racism.
I care about freedom of speech because I know that being able to criticize a government is a prerequisite for being able to change it.
You care about freedom of speech because you are told to, and you were constantly bombarded with a message of its importance by propaganda in self-serving media. If you applied any effort to this, you would easily recognize that being able to criticize the government without being able to convince it to accept your criticism is absolutely worthless, and being able to distribute your speech to large number of people is pointless when media can just shout you down using their own "freedom" to lie with impunity.
In reality, it's much easier to distribute any kind of important message in presence of censorship -- because then you are in a position to oppose the government to begin with, and you are not competing with every kook and every worthless attempt of entertainment. Any action has more impact when it requires courage.
Uh, you really believe dictatorship is a country the US wants to be destroyed?
Yes.
If a country doesn't have freedom of speech, it's not freedom. Seriously, there really are dictatorships in the world.
The only reason, you care about freedom of speech so much, is because press needs it to distribute advertisements and propaganda.
There is value in silencing clear, proven, deliberate lies, and there is nothing wrong in requiring some nontrivial effort for distribution of messages that most of society disapproves. Absolute freedom of speech was an idea, created when speech was nearly impossible to distribute without assistance of church and government, so no one expected it to eventually become worse than censorship. Now it is almost never used for any purpose other than deception of the public.
In any case, there are plenty of things far more important than "speech" -- healthy food, shelter, medicine, safety, education, justice. None of those things are guaranteed in your stupid society, even though it has more than enough resources to provide them to everyone. But instead of those most basic essentials you -- morons of the highest caliber that ever existed on Earth -- care about "speech".
The only good IDEs in the world are vi and emacs with GNU make. Qt works great with them. The rest are mostly useful as crutches for people who can't document their interfaces, but can tolerate working in one editor window, surrounded by thousand little barnacle-windows with useless lists and references.
dictatorships
The only definition of "dictatorship" is "a country that US government wants to be destroyed". If you think, you know another one, please recite it and ask yourself, if it gives any criteria for actually distinguishing between "dictatorship" and "culture that is in any way different from dominant American one". If that is not sufficient, ask yourself, if US a century and a half ago would be "dictatorship" or not.
I have to point out that:
1. No one in US has any way to determine if that satellite is or is not on intended orbit, unless orbit deteriorates (and then no one would care).
2. The source is mentioned as unnamed "US officials", what can just as well mean "CIA propaganda writers" (well, they are US officials... formally).
Sanity and progress in technology is the next door, here we have American patriotism! USA! USA! USA!
Pretty much indefinitely.
Look everyone, another American patriot who believes that everyone in the world loves his eagles, apple pie, and his idiots in the government. Other countries have their own idiots.
No one, ever, sells nukes, and you are stupid if you think that this is possible.
China. All that sweet potential slave labor, and it will be nice to steal their US bonds back.
No, you need applications that support your content creation.
All Linux applications run in all Linux desktop environments, so this is a non-issue.
Ignorant loudmouths such as yourself should shut up, and leave the discussions to people who actually use Linux.
Calling us Nazis dilutes the descriptive power of the word.
You are not extreme Nationalists?
If race condition is "subtle" to you, all programming is beyond your undersranding, and you should stay away from it.
Ever.
VMWare is pretty nice :)
Go fuck yourself. VMWare is a great solution for running Windows, because Windows is a shit OS that does not belong on hardware. No one should have to run another OS and build a fake environment just to be able to run Linux.
Turning the other cheek
Hey, look everyone, a Christian who happens to be a complete fuckheaded warmonger! Who would have thought of such thing?
I'd call that pretty impressive -- automated terrain following in a helicopter isn't exactly an easy task.
Balancing standing on two wheels with high center of mass is a very difficult task for a human, however Segway does it easily with very primitive microcontroller.