I didn't just "look at it" - I wrote a system to allow me to code java apps w/o having to bother with the crap that is java, by using the c pre-processor (one of the things that Java needs badly to hide the fugliness of the class libraries).
And the jvm is SLOW. Do some real benchmarks. I can do between 10 and 50 times as many ops in straight c as I can do in java. That's why we rejected it *again* last year.
That's because Apple is the new AOL. For people who think that anything more complicated than turning a computer on and off is for "those command-line gurus". Just look at their ads. It's a far cry from the days when Apple was a premium brand.
... and every other language just happens to be dependent on? c. Aw. No c, no java. No c, no perl. No c, no python. No c, no php. No c, no Windows, linux, unix, bsd, osx.
You've already limited your target audience by using java. When's the last time you saw a java ("it's going to change the way we use the internet") applet. Java died on the web years ago, it's rarely used on the desktop for anything significant for most users, you could kill off openoffice tomorrow and do the world a favor (other odt-capable editors are much faster and less buggy because they're written in c).
If you wanted to work with the most PEOPLE possible, you'd avoid java. You can't use it without a license on smartphones (ask Oracle), whereas you can deploy flash apps (as one example of a crap language that actually lets you do something quick-and-dirty) on desktops, smartphones (except iOS crap), and game consoles.
Or you can write something in c and actually have something that people will use because it's a lot faster at runtime than java.
Java has never been a cross-platform implementation, and never will be if OraKILL has their say, which is okay - let them kill it completely and maybe something better will come along. The only advantage java had over c was a fairly complete set of (really crappy) graphic and (half decent) networking libraries that were relatively easy to use, and that advantage is disappearing.
Reminds me of the time the provincial gov't. tried to bill 7 years back usage for land that was expropriated. I advised the owner to tell the gov't to go screw themselves (his lawyer was too chicken-shit to say it). He took my advice, the gov't agreed to waive the 7 years and settled for half what the neighbors were paying for the future. A nice 5-figure saving.
First, this is NOT about income taxes, it's about a business permit at $300 a pop. So, does she operate a blogging platform within the city limits, or is she just accessing something like blogger - which is someone else's business? Most bloggers don't run their blogging software, and have no control over whether it lives or dies. Control is part and parcel of "operating a business".
Does she have control over the ad platform either? Can she pick and choose what ads are shown? Does she have a business relationship with any of the advertisers? No? Then guess who's operating the business... the blogging host, not her.
And you seem to forget that Java executables are completely platform independent, and the compiler itself (Sun's, at least) is written in Java.
The runtimes are ALL written in c, for EVERY platform. No c, no Java.
There is no such thing as a "Java executable" - Java classes need a runtime - written in c - to INTERPRET them. Unlike, c, java does not run directly on the underlying hardware - therefore, it isn't really supported by ANY platform. The original intent was for java to run on a "java chip". That never panned out. Why? Because it was too bloated, and too poor-performing, even in the original version, to run on a tiny custom chipset. FAIL from day one.
Java is not platform independent. Look at the current Oracle-Google lawsuit - the Java ME environment and runtime (which is what Oracle, formerly Sun, licensed to cell-phone vendors) has to be customized for each phone platform.
So, no c, no java. Get a real language, get some vitamin c/c++. Too much java is bad for the blood pressure.
FFS, this is NOT about INCOME TAX. Please, RTFA for once, or at least a few of the comments, before posting, mkay?
This is about a "business privilege license" the city wants to charge. Non-profits don't pay it. Neither do religious orgs. She can get herself ordained as a Universal Church minister, and tell the city to shove off. It costs nothing, will work, and that will be then end of it.
So send the bill back marked "OUT OF BUSINESS" - or give it a new forwarding address. Or do it under the auspices of a religious order - that last one works all the time. Or simply refuse to pay it based on the 1st Amendment. Sheesh, do I have to teach you people *everything?*
There are at least a dozen ways to beat this illegitimate crap - (semi)-legitimately.
And no, you can register a non-profit for $35 if you know what you're doing. She doesn't need non-profit status at either the fed or state level, so it's a lot easier.
Case in point - I registered a non-profit, put my van into its name, and one day got a parking ticket for a protest we were doing. Got to court, the ticket was dismissed because ticketing a non-profit was a no-no:-)
If you try it, it might work for you. But if you DON'T try it, you'll fail anyway, so... what's to lose?.
Except this isn't about income tax - it's about a permit to operate a business within the city limits. The "business" operates on the server. Unless the server is hosted in the city, they can go p*ss up a rope.
However, since she can prove she loses money, she should ask the city to exempt her from ALL municipal taxes, as she is obviously a non-profit.
After all, she no longer has to prove that she runs a "business". The city has already stipulated that. The only question is, is it for profit or a non-profit. Since revenues will never exceed expenses, hello muni tax rebate!
But as the parent poster pointed out, Philly can't tax assets that aren't located in it's jurisdiction. This isn't an "income" tax, it's a business license - and the "business" is hosted outside Philly's physical boundaries - all the transactions take place elsewhere. It's like you own a store in Alamo, Texas, and Philly wants to charge you a business license. There's no legal basis.
Also, there's a First Amendment issue. This will definitely have a chilling effect on free speech.
Bullshit. The last time I seriously looked at Java was 2 months ago, and it's still a slow, bloated piece of shit that needs to be put out of it's misery. The JIT is a half-assed workaround. Get over it, already - java is programming with training wheels. Learn c and assembler, and you'll chafe under the limitations of java.
Except that Google isn't running Java on the Android, so the whole question is a red herring.
It's the same as if someone were to use Word to create a.doc file, then run it through a doc2pdf converter. The final file has nothing to do with Word, and doesn't need a word processor to read it.
Even Oracle concedes this - their claims have nothing to do with Java, and everything to do with the design of virtual machines in general. Oracle claims it owns enforceable patents on ALL VM tech. The patents. btw, are bogus. There's plenty of prior art. Score another one for the USPTO.
So all she has to do is say that her server, where the "business" is actually located, is hosted outside the US and GTFO!
Re:I doubt this is Oracle's motive
on
The Case For Oracle
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
I wonder if Apple is secretly behind this?
Where have you been the last week? Of course Apple has a hand in it - Ellison and Jobs are buddy-buddy.
However, that's not the point. Destroying Java is a good thing. Google would certainly benefit, since Android isn't Java, so Ellison may have inadvertently stepped into the biggest pile of dogsh*t in tech history.
Look through the threads - until last week, anyone trash-talking java was mod-bombed. Now? Even long-time java users are admitting that java is bloated, slow, stupid, causes bad breath and carbuncles and can make you go blind....
Google didn't set out to destroy Java, but Ellison has pretty much trashed everything else he got from Sun (OpenSolaris is dead, Solaris is dying, Sparc is dying, MySQL is under a cloud, virtualbox licensing has changed for the worse) so why not also fatally wound java at the same time and be done with it. Then he can go an look for something else to destroy.
Re:What the hell is he talking about?
on
The Case For Oracle
·
· Score: 0, Troll
Android doesn't run Java.
I have to admit: as someone who eats, sleeps and breathes Java,
There's your problem - you're stuck with the modern equivalent of BASIC. It has caused +5 damage points.
Seriously, Java is a dead end and Oracle is doing us all a favor by making it politically correct to point out that:
It's a piece of shit, and ALWAYS has been;
It's performance sucks
It's implementations suck even more
It's frameworks just compound the problem
It's fugly-ugly
Swing doesn't
It's really an interpreted language masquerading as a "compiled" language
Java developers NEED training wheels because they can't do something as simple as manage memory
Obsolete! When's the last time you saw a Java applet? This was the technology that was supposed to change the web and make it interactive. It died! It was supposed to be on thin clients everywhere. It died there too. It's crap. Get over it and learn c - if you still can after the brain damage Java seems to inflict on "programmers".
... for what? For Android? Never happened. Dalvik is not a JVM. The code running n Dalvik is not Java. IF you want, you can take a compiled Java class and transcode it so that the result will run under dalvik, but it's certainly no longer Java - for one thing, the JVM can't run it.
Think of it as taking a Word doc and running it through a PDF converter - it's no longer a Word doc.
Re:It's not just theirs, it's also ours
on
The Case For Oracle
·
· Score: -1, Troll
Only one problem: People who started out with java may be more "learning-compromised" tolearning new languages than people who started out with basic a generation ago were.
Don't believe it? Watch the down-mods from the Javanistas who can't even admit that their language is a tartified basic - but then again, they also claim it runs as fast as compiled languages.
OraKILL has done us a big favor - until this lawsuit, anyone saying Java was a piece of shit was immediately mod-bombed; now, even long-time Java developers are saying that the language is a creaking, bloated, slow piece of shit and should be dumped.
Slashdot Mirror
Want to bet on that? I believe the server stats show more slashdotters use Windows or linux.
I certainly wouldn't use it if given the choice between OXS and linux.
And the jvm is SLOW. Do some real benchmarks. I can do between 10 and 50 times as many ops in straight c as I can do in java. That's why we rejected it *again* last year.
That's because Apple is the new AOL. For people who think that anything more complicated than turning a computer on and off is for "those command-line gurus". Just look at their ads. It's a far cry from the days when Apple was a premium brand.
You've already limited your target audience by using java. When's the last time you saw a java ("it's going to change the way we use the internet") applet. Java died on the web years ago, it's rarely used on the desktop for anything significant for most users, you could kill off openoffice tomorrow and do the world a favor (other odt-capable editors are much faster and less buggy because they're written in c).
If you wanted to work with the most PEOPLE possible, you'd avoid java. You can't use it without a license on smartphones (ask Oracle), whereas you can deploy flash apps (as one example of a crap language that actually lets you do something quick-and-dirty) on desktops, smartphones (except iOS crap), and game consoles.
Or you can write something in c and actually have something that people will use because it's a lot faster at runtime than java.
Java has never been a cross-platform implementation, and never will be if OraKILL has their say, which is okay - let them kill it completely and maybe something better will come along. The only advantage java had over c was a fairly complete set of (really crappy) graphic and (half decent) networking libraries that were relatively easy to use, and that advantage is disappearing.
So if you're straight, it runs one OS, and if you're gay, it runs the other.
Does this mean Apple is trying to patent device-based gaydar?
Reminds me of the time the provincial gov't. tried to bill 7 years back usage for land that was expropriated. I advised the owner to tell the gov't to go screw themselves (his lawyer was too chicken-shit to say it). He took my advice, the gov't agreed to waive the 7 years and settled for half what the neighbors were paying for the future. A nice 5-figure saving.
First, this is NOT about income taxes, it's about a business permit at $300 a pop. So, does she operate a blogging platform within the city limits, or is she just accessing something like blogger - which is someone else's business? Most bloggers don't run their blogging software, and have no control over whether it lives or dies. Control is part and parcel of "operating a business".
Does she have control over the ad platform either? Can she pick and choose what ads are shown? Does she have a business relationship with any of the advertisers? No? Then guess who's operating the business ... the blogging host, not her.
The runtimes are ALL written in c, for EVERY platform. No c, no Java.
There is no such thing as a "Java executable" - Java classes need a runtime - written in c - to INTERPRET them. Unlike, c, java does not run directly on the underlying hardware - therefore, it isn't really supported by ANY platform. The original intent was for java to run on a "java chip". That never panned out. Why? Because it was too bloated, and too poor-performing, even in the original version, to run on a tiny custom chipset. FAIL from day one.
Java is not platform independent. Look at the current Oracle-Google lawsuit - the Java ME environment and runtime (which is what Oracle, formerly Sun, licensed to cell-phone vendors) has to be customized for each phone platform.
So, no c, no java. Get a real language, get some vitamin c/c++. Too much java is bad for the blood pressure.
Buy aother server?
Theirs is hosed.
Maybe they should run nmap on it?
FFS, this is NOT about INCOME TAX. Please, RTFA for once, or at least a few of the comments, before posting, mkay?
This is about a "business privilege license" the city wants to charge. Non-profits don't pay it. Neither do religious orgs. She can get herself ordained as a Universal Church minister, and tell the city to shove off. It costs nothing, will work, and that will be then end of it.
Not always. I did the "register an exempt org" thing a couple of decades back - never had to worry about parking tickets after that.
No c? No Java.
So shove off with your foolishness - Java is a toy compared to c.
So send the bill back marked "OUT OF BUSINESS" - or give it a new forwarding address. Or do it under the auspices of a religious order - that last one works all the time. Or simply refuse to pay it based on the 1st Amendment. Sheesh, do I have to teach you people *everything?*
There are at least a dozen ways to beat this illegitimate crap - (semi)-legitimately.
And no, you can register a non-profit for $35 if you know what you're doing. She doesn't need non-profit status at either the fed or state level, so it's a lot easier.
Case in point - I registered a non-profit, put my van into its name, and one day got a parking ticket for a protest we were doing. Got to court, the ticket was dismissed because ticketing a non-profit was a no-no :-)
If you try it, it might work for you. But if you DON'T try it, you'll fail anyway, so ... what's to lose?.
Telling the city "gimme back my municipal taxes - and shove your $300 "blogging business fee" - priceless.
When you need to fight dumb stupidity with smart stupidity, there's always slashdot!
You have a point with btrfs. MySQL is already under a cloud, OpenOffice is still buggy bloatware, so we can take those two off the list.
Or maybe buy Novell and pull a KIN. Really give Balmer something to be jealous of, as well as giving Microsoft a small kick in the nads.
However, since she can prove she loses money, she should ask the city to exempt her from ALL municipal taxes, as she is obviously a non-profit.
After all, she no longer has to prove that she runs a "business". The city has already stipulated that. The only question is, is it for profit or a non-profit. Since revenues will never exceed expenses, hello muni tax rebate!
Also, there's a First Amendment issue. This will definitely have a chilling effect on free speech.
Bullshit. The last time I seriously looked at Java was 2 months ago, and it's still a slow, bloated piece of shit that needs to be put out of it's misery. The JIT is a half-assed workaround. Get over it, already - java is programming with training wheels. Learn c and assembler, and you'll chafe under the limitations of java.
It's the same as if someone were to use Word to create a .doc file, then run it through a doc2pdf converter. The final file has nothing to do with Word, and doesn't need a word processor to read it.
Even Oracle concedes this - their claims have nothing to do with Java, and everything to do with the design of virtual machines in general. Oracle claims it owns enforceable patents on ALL VM tech. The patents. btw, are bogus. There's plenty of prior art. Score another one for the USPTO.
So all she has to do is say that her server, where the "business" is actually located, is hosted outside the US and GTFO!
Where have you been the last week? Of course Apple has a hand in it - Ellison and Jobs are buddy-buddy.
However, that's not the point. Destroying Java is a good thing. Google would certainly benefit, since Android isn't Java, so Ellison may have inadvertently stepped into the biggest pile of dogsh*t in tech history.
Look through the threads - until last week, anyone trash-talking java was mod-bombed. Now? Even long-time java users are admitting that java is bloated, slow, stupid, causes bad breath and carbuncles and can make you go blind ....
Google didn't set out to destroy Java, but Ellison has pretty much trashed everything else he got from Sun (OpenSolaris is dead, Solaris is dying, Sparc is dying, MySQL is under a cloud, virtualbox licensing has changed for the worse) so why not also fatally wound java at the same time and be done with it. Then he can go an look for something else to destroy.
There's your problem - you're stuck with the modern equivalent of BASIC. It has caused +5 damage points.
Seriously, Java is a dead end and Oracle is doing us all a favor by making it politically correct to point out that:
Obsolete! When's the last time you saw a Java applet? This was the technology that was supposed to change the web and make it interactive. It died! It was supposed to be on thin clients everywhere. It died there too. It's crap. Get over it and learn c - if you still can after the brain damage Java seems to inflict on "programmers".
Think of it as taking a Word doc and running it through a PDF converter - it's no longer a Word doc.
Don't believe it? Watch the down-mods from the Javanistas who can't even admit that their language is a tartified basic - but then again, they also claim it runs as fast as compiled languages.
OraKILL has done us a big favor - until this lawsuit, anyone saying Java was a piece of shit was immediately mod-bombed; now, even long-time Java developers are saying that the language is a creaking, bloated, slow piece of shit and should be dumped.
Way to go, Ellison!