Well, an xmlhttprequest is certainly faster than a page load on the client in almost all cases. google suggest works that way. Try typing something here - the suggestions are done in real time via xmlhttprequest. This wouldn't work with having to load a page after each keystroke, and the returned data is much smaller than regenerating the whole page + the returned data:-)
Since you'd only be saving the instance data on log-out, one big server query per session isn't that big a deal.
As another person in their 40's I have to agree good CRT's still beat LCD's this is why I have a 21 inch Sun/Sony monitor on my desk at work.
... but not GREAT LCDs. You get what you pay for. Spend twice the money for the same size, and you'll see the difference. Don't mistake a cheapie $200 LCD with something with real quality (yes, $200 is a crap lcd. Spend $500, Your eyes will notice the difference).
Fortunately, it's not a problem if you were originally near-sighted. You'll find that as you get older, you can actually use much larger monitors at much higher resolutions fewer problems. Makes using multiple large hi-res monitors at their native resolution a dream.
That's also one reason to avoid laser corrective surgery if you're nearsighted. As you get older, the problem will at least partially fix itself, whereas if you "fix" it when you're younger, you're going to need those glasses even for reading later on.
Are there any affordable High DPI monitors? Back in the day you used to be able to find 17" 1600x1200 crts, which were wonderful.
Are you kidding. I dumped a 21" 1600x1200 crt on someone earlier this year because I sure as heck didn't want it.
Spend $500, get a quality 1920x1200 screen, and be done with it for the next 5 years. If you use it 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, that's 3 cents an hour over the next decade. At that price get two - one for each eye. Your eyes are worth it.
6. Not all LCDs are created equal. Panel quality makes a big difference. I went out and bought a pair of nice Samsung 260Ts (26"x1920x1080) and all of a sudden, everything is nice and crisp again.
7. Get them to stop looking at so much pr0n. Or at least give their eyes a break from the screen every so often.
What you are building are not web sites. It may be a nice and clean user experience but it has to be problematic for other stuff that are assumed about websites....
On top of my head, how does Google indexes your content? How does your users Bookmark a specific page of your site? You know, all the side stuff that works well with websites? (I'll leave Lynx out for now;-)
You're free to supply google with a site map, you're free to supply alternate browsers with reduced-functionality web pages, and since you're storing the session on the server, there's no reason why you can't have a logout or save button that saves all the local variables onto the server as well, ready for the next time the visit.
If you are really keen on such a great user experience, you'd better do all that with flash. That way, in addition of not having cookies, you have a real UI....
It's like trying to talk to a stone, but would you mind elaborating? How are you going to send a post request to the server from the client without submitting a form? Any solution I can think of involves a plugin like Flash. Obviously you can send whatever requests you want using XHR, but that's not going to load a new page. You still need a URL to redirect to, which is going to be a get request.
You're right - it IS like talking to a stone. first hit - xmlhttprequest supports post variables, complete with code. No flash involved, no plugins. And why would you want to load a new page when you can just update everything in the current page, including either updating the form, removing it entirely, or replacing the entire body with new content, including more dynamically-loaded javascript? You can in effect load a completely new page, from the user persepective - and that's what counts. You'll also do it quicker than a page load. You can even have it open up multiple new windows, if that floats your boat. All while keeping your current context, so you've saved all your state.
You can also choose to preserve the use of the back button, multiple windows, etc. You don't need cookies for any of that. Or you can mimic the back and refresh buttons in the app, this way catching any user mistakes before they do something stupid - like backing completely out of the app.
On every get, you update the session variable. Some sites already do this.
Do you have an example?
Ask me again in a couple of years when the NDA expires.
Look, cookies simply aren't necessary. They are a convenience to the programmer, and to a smaller extent, the end user. There is no technical reason why a site absolutely needs them, they have their own security problems, and current practice of dropping them on users' hard drives without first getting informed consent is contrary to the RFC, and has been since 2000. The EU is right - fix your sites to comply with both the RFC and end-users' expectations of privacy. What's so hard about that? Or are most web-monkeys just lazy fucks with no respect for end-user rights? From all the complaining from people who can't be arsed to even read the RFC. I suspect it's laziness. Too lazy to read the RFC. Too lazy to figure out how to comply with it. Too lazy to learn new ways to do things. Too lazy to rub a few brain cells together and figure out that complying with end user expectations of privacy might give them an advantage in the long run by earning people's trust.
Do what you want. It's certainly no skin off my nose, and in the grand scheme of things, I'm certainly better off if you continue to do what you're doing now. And when the EU enforces the policy, and other countries follow suit (because no politician wants to look like they don't care about privacy), you'll be behind the curve, and I won't be. That works for moi. Enjoy:-)
Hitting the backspace key doesn't do anything special in a web app. If you're losing everything because of that, your app is written wrong.
The same applies to the escape key, mouse movements, etc. It's trivial to capture them.
The EU proposal doesn't require constant clicking - just a one-time consent.
Also, cookies management get complicated when you deal with sub-domains, add-in content, etc.
Your claim that cookies are required simply isn't true, and your examples of why are somewhat contrived. Removing the use of the back button is one of the smarter things to do in avoiding confusion for people using web apps.
Using forms for navigation causes additional problems with bookmarking, linking, refreshes, redirecting, etc. Especially redirecting.
You don't need forms to use post variables.
Only with the options set a certain way, many PHP applications simply require cookies.
Not true - this is strictly a designer choice. There is no technical reason for any application to absolutely require cookies.
Maybe you can understand this: you can't copy and paste the URL and send it to your friend and have them be logged into your session if you're using a cookie to persist the session ID, but your session is vulnerable if you send your friend a link that includes the session ID in the querystring.
Only if I never logged out between those two times, and the site was not designed with this in mind - which is simple enough. On every get, you update the session variable. Some sites already do this. This also prevents people from using the back button, or opening it in a second window, or hijacking a session, which is a good idea in web apps. With a scheme like this, cookies would just represent more disk i/o overhead.
You take the million, fine... but what about next year? Do you get another million, or was this a one-shot deal, in which case a million is nowhere near enough to permanently remove a top-1000 site.
Plus, what's to stop them from making another site with a similar name, and making the bing link redirect to the new site? New site is now at the top of both, with an extra $1m in their pocket.
Surely, you don't need me to cite the number of famous programming failures that were the result of a developer using a comma instead of a period
If it's c++, it probably wouldn't compile, so it would get fixed, so yes, I need you to cite famous programming errors where that happened, because I don't buy it. Links or it didn't happen.
The scandal also played a part in the formulation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act which President Jimmy Carter signed into law on December 19, 1977, which made it illegal for American persons and entities to bribe foreign government officials, which, consequently, may be in violation of The Logan Act
What I find funny is the pay-per-click fraud on the site's page: "Please support our Pay-Per-Click Advertising advertiser: Get a Free Web Marketing Analysis!"
But paying people money to switch indexes is not a bribe.
I can see it now - someone will remake the Baby-Shaker app so you can just shake your iphone to "shake off" the ads:-)
Give it some cool sound effects (toilet flush?), have it automatically send an email to the advertiser saying "I just flushed your ad without even seeing it courtesy of iToilet.app", and add the advertiser to a "Who Just Got Flushed?" page, with counters, a leaderboard, etc.
Session ID in a POST is a silly solution. No back or refresh is ever going to work anymore with your website, popping up questions about "resubmitting data" and scaring users away.
I consider that a bonus. NO hitting the back button for YOU! Besides, you can always have the app run in a window without a back button. That's the preferred way. Looks more like an app, less like a browser. Or do you think your online game experience will be improved by accidently hitting "back" and losing everything?
Also, how do you persist a javascript XHR object from one page to the next? And please avoid all forms of hidden frames. Short of this, it really is all useless.
You don't need to, since you don't leave the page when you're doing XHR. Make the request, get the response, update the current page. It's your comment that's really useless (unless it, hopefully, motivates you to check out doing httpxmlrequests:-)
Cookies are a way of connecting HTTP queries to a "session", hence allowing developers to fix a shortcoming of HTTP: its stateless nature.
It's not a shortcoming. If HTTP allowed for the connection to remain open continuously so that you could identify which client made the request from the socket id, web servers would quickly run out of sockets, and you could also steal data by just hijacking someone's connection.
Look, cookies are not all that great. They're abused, they're a security risk, and they're simply not needed. Use a cookie if necessary, but not necessarily a cookie.
Now, back on-topc - the EU is just saying they want the existing rfc about cookies and privacy enforced. What is so bad about that?
A blue collar worker (plumber, electrician, etc) also often has to be certified, unionized, and regulated either by the governing professional body, or some level of government. Those blue collar jobs are certainly professions, and the people who practice them are therefore by definition professionals.
Skill is skill, and doesn't respect the colour of your collar, whether it's white, blue, green or pink.
Programming is the IT equivalent of brick laying, it's a trade, not a profession
Programming is... an art, AND a profession.
Look up the definition of profession. I don't think it means only what you think it means. Your statement was unprofessional:-p
Is it a trade? Sure. And a profession. And, for some of us, it's an art, and we like it like that, because good code can be beautiful in the eye of the beholder.
Nokia/Blackberry/Windows Mobile users doesn't feel the need to hack their system security so there is no Rick wallpaper on their screens.
Idunno 'bout that... seems to me that at least some Windows users *like* Rick - they're always opening up email and clicking on links that play his songs and videos...
okay, it's a cheap shot... but in Soviet Russia Rick rolls YOU!
and with a "multitasking model" that makes MS-DOS TSRs look like a good idea.
Hey, I wrote some of those TSRs, you ignorant clod!:-)
One would, at random intervals, scan the video buffer and change a random word to either shit or fuck. Simple, funny, pissed people off. Of course, back in those days we did other silly things, like changing the boot sector message on floppies to such nice messages as "CPU ERROR 5134 - DEFECTIVE CPU" People couldn't be bothered to change their boot order, so if you left a modded non-system disk in A> you'd get to see them reboot, reboot, reboot, panicking. Of course, the fix was to just pop the disk and hit ENTER to continue the boot process... then put the disk back in when they weren't looking for the "next time".
Slashdot Mirror
Well, an xmlhttprequest is certainly faster than a page load on the client in almost all cases. google suggest works that way. Try typing something here - the suggestions are done in real time via xmlhttprequest. This wouldn't work with having to load a page after each keystroke, and the returned data is much smaller than regenerating the whole page + the returned data :-)
Since you'd only be saving the instance data on log-out, one big server query per session isn't that big a deal.
Fortunately, it's not a problem if you were originally near-sighted. You'll find that as you get older, you can actually use much larger monitors at much higher resolutions fewer problems. Makes using multiple large hi-res monitors at their native resolution a dream.
That's also one reason to avoid laser corrective surgery if you're nearsighted. As you get older, the problem will at least partially fix itself, whereas if you "fix" it when you're younger, you're going to need those glasses even for reading later on.
Are you kidding. I dumped a 21" 1600x1200 crt on someone earlier this year because I sure as heck didn't want it.
Spend $500, get a quality 1920x1200 screen, and be done with it for the next 5 years. If you use it 7 hours a day, 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year, that's 3 cents an hour over the next decade. At that price get two - one for each eye. Your eyes are worth it.
3. Move the monitor closer to the user.
4. Glasses
5. CTRL++
6. Not all LCDs are created equal. Panel quality makes a big difference. I went out and bought a pair of nice Samsung 260Ts (26"x1920x1080) and all of a sudden, everything is nice and crisp again.
7. Get them to stop looking at so much pr0n. Or at least give their eyes a break from the screen every so often.
You're right - it IS like talking to a stone. first hit - xmlhttprequest supports post variables, complete with code. No flash involved, no plugins. And why would you want to load a new page when you can just update everything in the current page, including either updating the form, removing it entirely, or replacing the entire body with new content, including more dynamically-loaded javascript? You can in effect load a completely new page, from the user persepective - and that's what counts. You'll also do it quicker than a page load. You can even have it open up multiple new windows, if that floats your boat. All while keeping your current context, so you've saved all your state.
You can also choose to preserve the use of the back button, multiple windows, etc. You don't need cookies for any of that. Or you can mimic the back and refresh buttons in the app, this way catching any user mistakes before they do something stupid - like backing completely out of the app.
Ask me again in a couple of years when the NDA expires.
Look, cookies simply aren't necessary. They are a convenience to the programmer, and to a smaller extent, the end user. There is no technical reason why a site absolutely needs them, they have their own security problems, and current practice of dropping them on users' hard drives without first getting informed consent is contrary to the RFC, and has been since 2000. The EU is right - fix your sites to comply with both the RFC and end-users' expectations of privacy. What's so hard about that? Or are most web-monkeys just lazy fucks with no respect for end-user rights? From all the complaining from people who can't be arsed to even read the RFC. I suspect it's laziness. Too lazy to read the RFC. Too lazy to figure out how to comply with it. Too lazy to learn new ways to do things. Too lazy to rub a few brain cells together and figure out that complying with end user expectations of privacy might give them an advantage in the long run by earning people's trust.
Do what you want. It's certainly no skin off my nose, and in the grand scheme of things, I'm certainly better off if you continue to do what you're doing now. And when the EU enforces the policy, and other countries follow suit (because no politician wants to look like they don't care about privacy), you'll be behind the curve, and I won't be. That works for moi. Enjoy :-)
Hitting the backspace key doesn't do anything special in a web app. If you're losing everything because of that, your app is written wrong.
The same applies to the escape key, mouse movements, etc. It's trivial to capture them.
The EU proposal doesn't require constant clicking - just a one-time consent.
Also, cookies management get complicated when you deal with sub-domains, add-in content, etc.
Your claim that cookies are required simply isn't true, and your examples of why are somewhat contrived. Removing the use of the back button is one of the smarter things to do in avoiding confusion for people using web apps.
You don't need forms to use post variables.
Not true - this is strictly a designer choice. There is no technical reason for any application to absolutely require cookies.
Only if I never logged out between those two times, and the site was not designed with this in mind - which is simple enough. On every get, you update the session variable. Some sites already do this. This also prevents people from using the back button, or opening it in a second window, or hijacking a session, which is a good idea in web apps. With a scheme like this, cookies would just represent more disk i/o overhead.
robots.txt
You know, that "complicated technological solution" that Murdoch doesn't want to use.
Do you honestly believe that to be true? Just asking, because there's a rumour that the goat guy's "giver" is getting lonely.
You take the million, fine ... but what about next year? Do you get another million, or was this a one-shot deal, in which case a million is nowhere near enough to permanently remove a top-1000 site.
Plus, what's to stop them from making another site with a similar name, and making the bing link redirect to the new site? New site is now at the top of both, with an extra $1m in their pocket.
FTFA:
If it's c++, it probably wouldn't compile, so it would get fixed, so yes, I need you to cite famous programming errors where that happened, because I don't buy it. Links or it didn't happen.
Remember - famous. Not trivial "example code".
Ask Lockheed.
What I find funny is the pay-per-click fraud on the site's page: "Please support our Pay-Per-Click Advertising advertiser: Get a Free Web Marketing Analysis!"
But paying people money to switch indexes is not a bribe.
I can see it now - someone will remake the Baby-Shaker app so you can just shake your iphone to "shake off" the ads :-)
Give it some cool sound effects (toilet flush?), have it automatically send an email to the advertiser saying "I just flushed your ad without even seeing it courtesy of iToilet.app", and add the advertiser to a "Who Just Got Flushed?" page, with counters, a leaderboard, etc.
I can see it now: Cop to suspect: "Are those wire cutters in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?" :-)
I consider that a bonus. NO hitting the back button for YOU! Besides, you can always have the app run in a window without a back button. That's the preferred way. Looks more like an app, less like a browser. Or do you think your online game experience will be improved by accidently hitting "back" and losing everything?
You don't need to, since you don't leave the page when you're doing XHR. Make the request, get the response, update the current page. It's your comment that's really useless (unless it, hopefully, motivates you to check out doing httpxmlrequests :-)
It's not a shortcoming. If HTTP allowed for the connection to remain open continuously so that you could identify which client made the request from the socket id, web servers would quickly run out of sockets, and you could also steal data by just hijacking someone's connection.
Look, cookies are not all that great. They're abused, they're a security risk, and they're simply not needed. Use a cookie if necessary, but not necessarily a cookie.
Now, back on-topc - the EU is just saying they want the existing rfc about cookies and privacy enforced. What is so bad about that?
flash, pdfs ...
Heck, even Microsoft has prior art - system modal dialog boxes have been around for ages. UAC is just the latest example.
You don't - the person who got first post is here - the article is a dupe from 2 days ago.
I know ... even the editors don't read the fine articles ...
... like two days ago ...
A blue collar worker (plumber, electrician, etc) also often has to be certified, unionized, and regulated either by the governing professional body, or some level of government. Those blue collar jobs are certainly professions, and the people who practice them are therefore by definition professionals.
Skill is skill, and doesn't respect the colour of your collar, whether it's white, blue, green or pink.
Programming is ... an art, AND a profession.
Look up the definition of profession. I don't think it means only what you think it means. Your statement was unprofessional :-p
Is it a trade? Sure. And a profession. And, for some of us, it's an art, and we like it like that, because good code can be beautiful in the eye of the beholder.
If you're going to be an ellipsis nazi, 3 dots is fine at the end as well ...
But back on topic, FTFA:
If you're a woman, being "well rounded" will definitely help your career. "Well rounded guy? Cut down on the junk food.
Idunno 'bout that ... seems to me that at least some Windows users *like* Rick - they're always opening up email and clicking on links that play his songs and videos ...
okay, it's a cheap shot ... but in Soviet Russia Rick rolls YOU!
Whereas in Communist China, Wick wolls YIU!
Hey, I wrote some of those TSRs, you ignorant clod! :-)
One would, at random intervals, scan the video buffer and change a random word to either shit or fuck. Simple, funny, pissed people off. Of course, back in those days we did other silly things, like changing the boot sector message on floppies to such nice messages as "CPU ERROR 5134 - DEFECTIVE CPU" People couldn't be bothered to change their boot order, so if you left a modded non-system disk in A> you'd get to see them reboot, reboot, reboot, panicking. Of course, the fix was to just pop the disk and hit ENTER to continue the boot process ... then put the disk back in when they weren't looking for the "next time".