You've obviously don't know how procurement works. Each box in a batch going to the schools WILL be identical hardware-wise.
"and short of an MS Windows box running Norton Ghost, what would you use to image them that would actually work?"
Warning warning Will Robinson - n00b detector at 100%!!!
Unlike people stuck with Windows, you don't need any fancy utilities - try "man dd" for more info. You can even image a Windows drive with it.
"By making the consumer do the install, it is pretty much saying that we only want to sell linux-laptops to people and companies familier with linux or familier enough to know they aren't installing windows."
They should do the same for Windows for ALL computers. If you can't install it, you can't use it. At least this way we'd have a fighting chance that users would have a modicum of knowledge.
"Why, in the subject line, are you assigning "Standard installers" the value of "Bullshit!" (using the assignment operator ==)? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the equality test (=)?"
I won't throw rocks, seeing as you posted this really late at night, and probably need a bit of sleep:-)
The equality test is "==", not "=".
"=" is the assignment operator.
Don't need to assign the term "Standard Installers" the value of "Bullshit", it already has that value, and the phrase (Standard Installers == Bullshit) evaluates to 1 or true.
Its funny how so many people in this thread don't get that these are 22,000 desktops with linux pre-installed, and that you don't want the students to install random programs on them, and certainly not outside their home directories.
With the fast pace of linux development and the equally fast advances in distros (example - suse 10.0, 7 gigs of programs, suse 10.1, 10 gigs of programs) and the competition for different ways and means (try out ubuntu's install, then try out their way of adding programs - it blows anything else out of the water), we're way ahead of the Windows world, which seems to be stuck in a '90s time warp: InstallShield + reboot.
Competition isn't just good - its fantastic; And if you think this is good, wait until a couple of years from now...
"But when someone is new to linux, they just double click a file they downloaded wheather its a bz2, gz, sh, etc. and expect it to work, and when it doesn't, they get mad at me."
- that one sentence explains a lot of te malware and virus proliferation out there under Windows, doesn't it? Anna_Korinova_Nude.jpeg[insert a bunch of spaces here].exe shouldn't just install itself when some n00b clicks on it...
Keep the context in mind - these are desktops being deployed in schools with everythig pre-installed. You don't want people just installing whatever they want.
Kind of redundant under linux when it coumes with 10 gigs of apps pre-installed.
Or you can try the installer with ubuntu - select what you want and watch it download and self-install FAST (if you have a fast connection) since it uses bittorrent to download.
Don't even have to touch a cd or dvd. Just click, wait a minute, and its there on the menu. No rebooting.
Besides, these machines come with linux and the apps pre-installed, so who gives a crap about installers in such cases.
I call bullshit on all this fud from people decrying the "need" for standard installers.
1. Try an installer from any of the major distros. They're ALL easier than Windows.
2. You only install the installer once, then you image the drive and copy the image to the other N computers in the sale.
3. The end user will NOT be the one installing any of these.
So everyone, who gives a shit about a common installer? Let the installers proliferate, and we'll continue to have competition for the BEST installer, which will change from year to year, rather than those lame ones we see with the bitch from Redmond that can barely install an OS, never mind 10 gigs of software in one shot (that 10 gigs figure is what I got from installing the latest opensuse distro, fwiw).
The preponderance of the evidence is a tricky thing. Ask any judge. Besides, with a motion to stay the case for 60 days, its not a jury trial. And if you're a witness, you don't need a defense beyond "I don't know" and the ability to move your jaws and say "I object on the grounds of relevancy" to any question that you don't think is pertinent, if you don't have representation.
Give it a try some time. It pisses lawyers off when you're not initmidated. And you have the right to object to every question, since you're acting as your own counsul (though I'd save it for the good stuff).
Well, since I usually do know what I'm doing in a courtroom, I guess that takes care of that issue. There's no "lose" for a witness who is not themselves the defendant or the plaintiff.
A a newspaper editor friend of mine had one, and she used to answer the door with it just hanging around her neck (it was a very mellow snake, but it was still a dumb thing to do).
Or you make sure to mention that you got it cheap (tell them you're paying half what you're really paying) because the former tenant committed suicide and it was a week before they found the body - took forever to get the smell out.
Or just stand there and SCRATCH. Keep it up, like you have body lice. After a few minutes, they'll be scratching too.
When the landlord complains, tell him that you're open to "incentives" or "compensation" for your time and cooperation.
The RIAA is going to have a problem with this. Not just an image problem - a legal problem.
The survivors just have to say "I don't know for sure. You'll have to ask him. Anything else is just speculation, and I'm not under oath to speculate."
That's why I say its a radical idea to RTFA for so many of the newer posters:-)
Its like all they want to do is try for a quick score to karma whore. Those of us who have been at the karma cap like forever don't relly give a crap. Me, I just want to get more freaks... I've been sitting at something like 80 people foeing me for ages. Maybe if I start posting "Every time X happens, Dick Cheney splits a live baby with his buddy Osama" or "Israel pre-emptively kills another 5-year-old lebanese 'terr'rist'" or something...
One good example of that is the "elevator" algorithm that linux uses to write to disks. Instead of moving the head from place to place in the order writes were supposed to be written, it "sweeps" back and forth across the surface of the disk. A lot less wear and tear on the drives, and it also allows you to continue to use a bad drive way after it won't work under a certain other OS.
This won't be the first time software beats hardware.
The original Stacker product was a combination of a hardware card and software. Think of the hardware card as an accelerator for doing the comression/decompression.
The hardware was faster on the oldest machines, but on anything above a 286/12 (I had a 286/20 at the time), or almost any 386, it ran faster without the hardware card. And on every 486, the card was useless.
So, while you may want to "consider the source" of this news, this is only one factor to weigh. As time goes on, I'm sure we'll see more studies, benchmarks, etc.
Remember, there are 3 things that are inevitable in a programmers' life - death, taxes, and benchmarks.
"When I have trouble finding a job without a last-minute "agreement" that claims they own everything I think of, even outside of work, and it kills my ability to work on my business or to better myself due to ownership issues, there is a problem"
This is an indicator that the company doesn't have a real product.
I changed employers this month, and my new one has a real product, and its in use. Their NDA is much more reasonable - they own the stuff I write that's related to their business. This is fair to everyone, and is much more enforceable than a blanket "we pwn your @ss". In other words, if I come up with a new way of dividing up the work flow on a cluster of machines (since that's part of what I'm working on) they own it.
This is reasonable because this is what I'm being paid to do. A restrictive interpretation of "they own everything you do whenever" would mean I wouldn't even be able to update my existing clients web sites with new features without their permission, even to fix a scripting bug.
If, on the other hand, I come up with enhancements to my c2java program, that's something I can freely share. It has nothing to do with what I'm workng on, existed long before I joined them, and its the subject of a future gpl release, same as pydb and remotemail were,... yadda yadda yadda...
Even then, I'd still do the courtesy of discussing it with them ahead of time, to avoid any possible misunderstandings. If they're treating my right, why wouldn't I do the same?
A smart business lays down reasonable restrictions that protect all parties' natural rights. This generates loyalty and pride (neither of which you can buy) and is defensible both morally and in court. A dumb business creates an "us against them" mentality.
Which do you think is more likely to succeed in the long term?
I did ask for one change... I noticed that the NDA forbids me from disclosing details to 3rd parties... so I asked that it be changed to "without written permission." This is because, having seen some of the product, I forsee that there may come a time when they'll want to do a licensing deal with non-competing industries, and they may want me to talk to those same.
As for the rental agreements, that's just fscked up. Add an "all these clauses apply to both parties, mutatis mutandi". When they ask "what does that mean, say "it means that all the clauses of this lease apply to both of us. I'm not the only one who has to respect them - you do to0"
Then unilaterally REDUCE your rent. When they bitch, point to the "mutatis mutandi" and say "ALL the clauses" includes the unilateral fixing of the rent. Then change it to a negative amount, and tell them you expect their check on the first of each month.
"How about a retractable USB cable to connect to the computer instead of bluetooth?"
Ever use "retractable" cables? Didn't think so... they're a real pain in the ass. Another dumb idea.
"And how many geeks will seriously have a legitimate reason to invest in a new and "high-res" phone."
If you had bothered to actually read the article, you'd have known that one of the problems is that NO camera phone can focus properly at such a short distance, so fsck the hi-res. This is EXTREMELY lo-res. That makes 2 dumb ideas...
"But I'll be using the phone on the road as my mouse because It would bean any mouspad major @ss and one less thing to carry."
You'll need to carry your phone charger. That's as much wire as a mouse. Also, again, if you had read the article, you'd have known that its damn inconvenient to use - you can't just rest it on a mouse pad (yes, you need a mouse pad or similar surface) - you have to hold it in the air slightly above the surface, to let some light in. So you'll end up with RSI injuries quicker.
You scored a trifecta of dumb ideas, which could have been avoided if you had simply read the article.
"Again, if you are good enough, do something that got featured on Slashdot before writing bashing comments. Otherwise Slashdot would become better without you and your comments."
And if you would bother to actually RTFA (read the fucked-up article), you would have avoided dumb idea #4 - you wouldn't have been writing such a lame-ass comment, giving me an excuse to write even MORE "bashing comments". So why not do your share to "improve slashdot" and foe me. Maybe if enough people do, something bad will happen. (yeah, sure, what-evah).
Or - and here's a really radical idea - you could just read the articles before posting.
The bank doesn't have ALL the data for purchases made by cheque - just the payee and the amount. They can't even say it was for purchases you made - perhaps you were paying someone else's bill as a favour.
Also, as of January 2004, the bank can't be notified as to the individual items purchased - just the customer account, retail account, time, date, and the amount billed.
The retailer is allowed to keep records of exactly what was purchased, in case of customer complaint, warranty service, etc., and because you're their customer for the purposes of the transaction.
So while the credit card company will know you spent $100.00 at a restaurant, they won't know what you ordered. And your bank will only know that you paid a bill of $X.YY to Credit card company Z.
Which is why you won't mind spilling some salad oil.
Now I could understand you being upset if I had suggested something sacreligious, like spilling beer...
Of course, the best would be a spot of crazy glue. One time, as a practical joke, some people at Dorval's Dept of Transport office put some crazy glue under another woman's desk right before she got in. She sat down, and her shoes got "welded" to the floor. 5 minutes later, a couple of RCMP guys (who were in on the prank) came in with a phonied-up arrest warrant for her. That's when she discovered she couldn't stand up...
"Nothing (no one) will stop Amazon from sharing (selling) its data with other companies."
Actually, they better not try this with their Canadian partnerss, or they'll find the backlash to be vicious. Including expensive audits and damages paid to anyone whose info has been collected.
YOu're simply not allowed to collect and hold information that has nothing to do with the actual transactions with your customers. And you're not allowed to collect information, beyond name, address, and telephone number, for anyone who isn't a customer. "Data mining" and collecting for irrelevant stuff such as sexual orientation has been illegal up here since January of 2004.
Even information that was collected with yur consent can't be "re-used" for any other purpose.
Also, they have to supply anyone who asks with a copy of their file. Could be expensive and embarrassing for Amazon.
As for prior art, here in Canada HRDC (a gov't agency) did this - a HUGE database with all sorts of information - and was forced to drop it when 29,000 Quebecers sent in requests for their files in one week as a protest. Compliance costs $$$$.
If Amazon wants to lose their contract with Canada Post, let them go ahead with this.
Not only that, but you have to hold it above your mouse pad, not in actual contact.
"Light is needed. My temporary solution is to hold the phone about.6cm above the pad, letting light in the side. My camera picks up enough to see at this distance."
Slashdot Mirror
"the end goal of GNU is to have a Free Unix-like operating system"
You mean like the BSDs?
[insert mandatory joke about reinventing the wheel, but this time with an ew feature heretofor unthought of - SQUARE SIDES!]
You've obviously don't know how procurement works. Each box in a batch going to the schools WILL be identical hardware-wise.
"and short of an MS Windows box running Norton Ghost, what would you use to image them that would actually work?"
Warning warning Will Robinson - n00b detector at 100%!!! Unlike people stuck with Windows, you don't need any fancy utilities - try "man dd" for more info. You can even image a Windows drive with it.
"By making the consumer do the install, it is pretty much saying that we only want to sell linux-laptops to people and companies familier with linux or familier enough to know they aren't installing windows."
They should do the same for Windows for ALL computers. If you can't install it, you can't use it. At least this way we'd have a fighting chance that users would have a modicum of knowledge.
"Why, in the subject line, are you assigning "Standard installers" the value of "Bullshit!" (using the assignment operator ==)? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the equality test (=)?"
I won't throw rocks, seeing as you posted this really late at night, and probably need a bit of sleep :-)
The equality test is "==", not "=".
"=" is the assignment operator.
Don't need to assign the term "Standard Installers" the value of "Bullshit", it already has that value, and the phrase (Standard Installers == Bullshit) evaluates to 1 or true.
Its funny how so many people in this thread don't get that these are 22,000 desktops with linux pre-installed, and that you don't want the students to install random programs on them, and certainly not outside their home directories.
With the fast pace of linux development and the equally fast advances in distros (example - suse 10.0, 7 gigs of programs, suse 10.1, 10 gigs of programs) and the competition for different ways and means (try out ubuntu's install, then try out their way of adding programs - it blows anything else out of the water), we're way ahead of the Windows world, which seems to be stuck in a '90s time warp: InstallShield + reboot.
Competition isn't just good - its fantastic; And if you think this is good, wait until a couple of years from now ...
"But when someone is new to linux, they just double click a file they downloaded wheather its a bz2, gz, sh, etc. and expect it to work, and when it doesn't, they get mad at me."
- that one sentence explains a lot of te malware and virus proliferation out there under Windows, doesn't it? Anna_Korinova_Nude.jpeg[insert a bunch of spaces here].exe shouldn't just install itself when some n00b clicks on it ...
Keep the context in mind - these are desktops being deployed in schools with everythig pre-installed. You don't want people just installing whatever they want.
Kind of redundant under linux when it coumes with 10 gigs of apps pre-installed.
Or you can try the installer with ubuntu - select what you want and watch it download and self-install FAST (if you have a fast connection) since it uses bittorrent to download.
Don't even have to touch a cd or dvd. Just click, wait a minute, and its there on the menu. No rebooting.
Besides, these machines come with linux and the apps pre-installed, so who gives a crap about installers in such cases.
I call bullshit on all this fud from people decrying the "need" for standard installers.
1. Try an installer from any of the major distros. They're ALL easier than Windows.
2. You only install the installer once, then you image the drive and copy the image to the other N computers in the sale.
3. The end user will NOT be the one installing any of these.
So everyone, who gives a shit about a common installer? Let the installers proliferate, and we'll continue to have competition for the BEST installer, which will change from year to year, rather than those lame ones we see with the bitch from Redmond that can barely install an OS, never mind 10 gigs of software in one shot (that 10 gigs figure is what I got from installing the latest opensuse distro, fwiw).
Who knows what's in the estate? Heck, if his "estate" owes more than its assets, its always better to just renounce it.
Again, its not their concern. The ONLY one who has a legal concern, and who may be in a position to take a decision, is the executor of the will.
The preponderance of the evidence is a tricky thing. Ask any judge. Besides, with a motion to stay the case for 60 days, its not a jury trial. And if you're a witness, you don't need a defense beyond "I don't know" and the ability to move your jaws and say "I object on the grounds of relevancy" to any question that you don't think is pertinent, if you don't have representation.
Give it a try some time. It pisses lawyers off when you're not initmidated. And you have the right to object to every question, since you're acting as your own counsul (though I'd save it for the good stuff).
Well, since I usually do know what I'm doing in a courtroom, I guess that takes care of that issue. There's no "lose" for a witness who is not themselves the defendant or the plaintiff.
Defense doesn't cost you anything if you're willing to forego a lawyer. Its pretty simple to say "I don't know - you'd have to ask So-and-so."
That's when you buy a boa constrictor.
A a newspaper editor friend of mine had one, and she used to answer the door with it just hanging around her neck (it was a very mellow snake, but it was still a dumb thing to do).
Or you make sure to mention that you got it cheap (tell them you're paying half what you're really paying) because the former tenant committed suicide and it was a week before they found the body - took forever to get the smell out.
Or just stand there and SCRATCH. Keep it up, like you have body lice. After a few minutes, they'll be scratching too.
When the landlord complains, tell him that you're open to "incentives" or "compensation" for your time and cooperation.
Ohn his tombstone - "Over my dead body!!!"
The RIAA is going to have a problem with this. Not just an image problem - a legal problem.
The survivors just have to say "I don't know for sure. You'll have to ask him. Anything else is just speculation, and I'm not under oath to speculate."
That "increase in the rent" is an awful clause. Makes you want to start a commune or co-op.
"I wonder if anyone still uses Stacker?"
Why bother ... you can get a a terrabyte of storage for less than the cost of a 40 meg hard drave back in those days.
That's why I say its a radical idea to RTFA for so many of the newer posters :-)
Its like all they want to do is try for a quick score to karma whore. Those of us who have been at the karma cap like forever don't relly give a crap. Me, I just want to get more freaks ... I've been sitting at something like 80 people foeing me for ages. Maybe if I start posting "Every time X happens, Dick Cheney splits a live baby with his buddy Osama" or "Israel pre-emptively kills another 5-year-old lebanese 'terr'rist'" or something ...
One good example of that is the "elevator" algorithm that linux uses to write to disks. Instead of moving the head from place to place in the order writes were supposed to be written, it "sweeps" back and forth across the surface of the disk. A lot less wear and tear on the drives, and it also allows you to continue to use a bad drive way after it won't work under a certain other OS.
This won't be the first time software beats hardware.
The original Stacker product was a combination of a hardware card and software. Think of the hardware card as an accelerator for doing the comression/decompression.
The hardware was faster on the oldest machines, but on anything above a 286/12 (I had a 286/20 at the time), or almost any 386, it ran faster without the hardware card. And on every 486, the card was useless.
So, while you may want to "consider the source" of this news, this is only one factor to weigh. As time goes on, I'm sure we'll see more studies, benchmarks, etc.
Remember, there are 3 things that are inevitable in a programmers' life - death, taxes, and benchmarks.
"When I have trouble finding a job without a last-minute "agreement" that claims they own everything I think of, even outside of work, and it kills my ability to work on my business or to better myself due to ownership issues, there is a problem"
This is an indicator that the company doesn't have a real product.
I changed employers this month, and my new one has a real product, and its in use. Their NDA is much more reasonable - they own the stuff I write that's related to their business. This is fair to everyone, and is much more enforceable than a blanket "we pwn your @ss". In other words, if I come up with a new way of dividing up the work flow on a cluster of machines (since that's part of what I'm working on) they own it.
This is reasonable because this is what I'm being paid to do. A restrictive interpretation of "they own everything you do whenever" would mean I wouldn't even be able to update my existing clients web sites with new features without their permission, even to fix a scripting bug.
If, on the other hand, I come up with enhancements to my c2java program, that's something I can freely share. It has nothing to do with what I'm workng on, existed long before I joined them, and its the subject of a future gpl release, same as pydb and remotemail were, ... yadda yadda yadda ...
Even then, I'd still do the courtesy of discussing it with them ahead of time, to avoid any possible misunderstandings. If they're treating my right, why wouldn't I do the same?
A smart business lays down reasonable restrictions that protect all parties' natural rights. This generates loyalty and pride (neither of which you can buy) and is defensible both morally and in court. A dumb business creates an "us against them" mentality.
Which do you think is more likely to succeed in the long term?
I did ask for one change ... I noticed that the NDA forbids me from disclosing details to 3rd parties ... so I asked that it be changed to "without written permission." This is because, having seen some of the product, I forsee that there may come a time when they'll want to do a licensing deal with non-competing industries, and they may want me to talk to those same.
As for the rental agreements, that's just fscked up. Add an "all these clauses apply to both parties, mutatis mutandi". When they ask "what does that mean, say "it means that all the clauses of this lease apply to both of us. I'm not the only one who has to respect them - you do to0"
Then unilaterally REDUCE your rent. When they bitch, point to the "mutatis mutandi" and say "ALL the clauses" includes the unilateral fixing of the rent. Then change it to a negative amount, and tell them you expect their check on the first of each month.
A dumb idea is still a dumb idea.
Ever use "retractable" cables? Didn't think so ... they're a real pain in the ass. Another dumb idea.
If you had bothered to actually read the article, you'd have known that one of the problems is that NO camera phone can focus properly at such a short distance, so fsck the hi-res. This is EXTREMELY lo-res. That makes 2 dumb ideas ...
You'll need to carry your phone charger. That's as much wire as a mouse. Also, again, if you had read the article, you'd have known that its damn inconvenient to use - you can't just rest it on a mouse pad (yes, you need a mouse pad or similar surface) - you have to hold it in the air slightly above the surface, to let some light in. So you'll end up with RSI injuries quicker.
You scored a trifecta of dumb ideas, which could have been avoided if you had simply read the article.
"Again, if you are good enough, do something that got featured on Slashdot before writing bashing comments. Otherwise Slashdot would become better without you and your comments."
And if you would bother to actually RTFA (read the fucked-up article), you would have avoided dumb idea #4 - you wouldn't have been writing such a lame-ass comment, giving me an excuse to write even MORE "bashing comments". So why not do your share to "improve slashdot" and foe me. Maybe if enough people do, something bad will happen. (yeah, sure, what-evah).
Or - and here's a really radical idea - you could just read the articles before posting.
The bank doesn't have ALL the data for purchases made by cheque - just the payee and the amount. They can't even say it was for purchases you made - perhaps you were paying someone else's bill as a favour.
Also, as of January 2004, the bank can't be notified as to the individual items purchased - just the customer account, retail account, time, date, and the amount billed.
The retailer is allowed to keep records of exactly what was purchased, in case of customer complaint, warranty service, etc., and because you're their customer for the purposes of the transaction.
So while the credit card company will know you spent $100.00 at a restaurant, they won't know what you ordered. And your bank will only know that you paid a bill of $X.YY to Credit card company Z.
Which is why you won't mind spilling some salad oil.
Now I could understand you being upset if I had suggested something sacreligious, like spilling beer ...
Of course, the best would be a spot of crazy glue. One time, as a practical joke, some people at Dorval's Dept of Transport office put some crazy glue under another woman's desk right before she got in. She sat down, and her shoes got "welded" to the floor. 5 minutes later, a couple of RCMP guys (who were in on the prank) came in with a phonied-up arrest warrant for her. That's when she discovered she couldn't stand up ...
That's what the article said ... and using an LED would just further drain the batter ... so then you're stuck with a dead phone ane no mouse.
"Nothing (no one) will stop Amazon from sharing (selling) its data with other companies."
Actually, they better not try this with their Canadian partnerss, or they'll find the backlash to be vicious. Including expensive audits and damages paid to anyone whose info has been collected.
YOu're simply not allowed to collect and hold information that has nothing to do with the actual transactions with your customers. And you're not allowed to collect information, beyond name, address, and telephone number, for anyone who isn't a customer. "Data mining" and collecting for irrelevant stuff such as sexual orientation has been illegal up here since January of 2004.
Even information that was collected with yur consent can't be "re-used" for any other purpose.
Also, they have to supply anyone who asks with a copy of their file. Could be expensive and embarrassing for Amazon.
As for prior art, here in Canada HRDC (a gov't agency) did this - a HUGE database with all sorts of information - and was forced to drop it when 29,000 Quebecers sent in requests for their files in one week as a protest. Compliance costs $$$$.
If Amazon wants to lose their contract with Canada Post, let them go ahead with this.
"Light is needed. My temporary solution is to hold the phone about .6cm above the pad, letting light in the side. My camera picks up enough to see at this distance."