And society often pays it, not just individuals. That's why we need strong support for education. You can't leave it up to "free market solves everything" magic.
Come to think of it, the existence of free market fundamentalists is yet another stupidity tax we are all paying, and needs to be cured, with "evil socialist" education.
you are asking someone to suppress their sexuality, because of your morality. you ask a lot of other people you don't even know, for your the sake of your "morality". that observation alone, to ask so much, for the sake of your simplistic thinking, shows that you don't actually stand for morality. true morality doesn't do that
so i ask you to shut up, to learn to tolerate. you ask someone else to suppress their sexual identity
people often associate moral relativism with the left and moral absolutism with the right
you are talking to someone who is a moral absolutist, from the left. i don't just think i am right, i actively call social conservatives a vile evil influence in this world which must be actively denied. i'm not about respect, i am about ideological warfare, and destroying an enemy, an enemy that is very much creating suffering in this world because of their bad ideas. social conservatism is our downfall, and it must be fought
asocial behavior is normal in every one at some point: teenagers have to detach from the home social unit and strike out on themselves. within this inflection point, asocial tendencies can manifest. some periods, in some individuals, of much longer duration
but a pedophile's actions on a sexually and psychologically immature child goes WAY WAY WAY beyond just encouraging asocial behavior
well, i don't really know if homosexuality has any darwinian benefit, but, regardless, considering the population time bomb we are living in, homosexuality should be actively encouraged to reduce the population! (i kid, that makes no sense: you can't turn a homosexual heterosexual, and you can't turn a heterosexual homosexual)
well yeah. raising your nephew to reproductive age is in fact exactly also why worker ants are sterile: helping genes related to yours, not just directly yours. there are many strategies that darwinian evolution allows for in terms of passing on genes. but any behavior that results in less chance of getting your genes passed on, such as allowing a pedophile to screw up a sexually immature relative's psychology, will be actively pruned
a man could have a bride who was 13, no big deal. but this is also from the era when slavery was ok, women had no rights, etc: more brutal times. we now recognize that teenagers are physically mature, but psychologically immature. it is in the interest of a stronger society that we keep mature adults, perhaps predatory in their interests (use them and lose them) away from teenagers. let teenagers experiment sexually amongst themselves, before they are ready for the tougher "real world", where they can handle the tricks and manipulations with a stronger confidence and psychological toughness
of course, biologically, you have no reason to respect this. i myself have been physiologically turned on by jailbait. but just because my dick is hard doesn't mean i have to follow it: i don't want to do harm in this world. so i hope psychologically you see why you need to respect that teenagers are off limits. prey on college kids, no younger, please
yes. and there's also the side that says creationism is a respectable answer to evolution. and that phrenology is an acceptable answer to psychology. and that magnets on your wrists cures cancer. and the earth is flat. etc
just because you trot out pseudoscientific nonsense with a straight face does not mean your position deserves respect. it only means you have a laformed thought which needs more thinking. homosexuality is a biological, innate desire. try to understand that is true. i'm not going to convince you in a thread on slashdot, do your research to catch up with confirmed fact
your idea deserves no respect for the same reason jenny mccarthy deserves no respect: what you think is logically wrong and downright dangerous
Condoms don't help at all. The entire point of condoms is so you can have sex without getting pregnant, and you can get AIDS orally if I'm not mistaken. The answer isn't condoms but sexual self-control. Handing out condoms would deny the life-giving aspect of sexuality that God put in it since the beginning of sexuality itself, therefore being sinful. Those with AIDS are called to live lives of Chastity, as are homosexuals. We're not animals; we don't have to act on our desires all of the time.
you are WAAAAY out there in fingers stuck in ears land aren't you? just incredibly ignorant and blind
the only thing i can say to you that might change your blindness and ignorance is this:
if you preach a behavior, that no human society, in any time period, of all history, and all geography, has ever been able to adhere to, then maybe you need to change what you preach, no?
i can say nothing more to you and your foolishness. you are part of the force of evil i referred to. because in your ignorance and blindness, you preach things which are incompatible with basic human nature. in my mind, you are similar to the utopianists of the 19th century: preaching failed utopian ideals, that just don't work in society, and wind up creating dystopias. which is exactly what your ideology does in the world, in fact: create dystopia, suffering. out of a ham-fisted overly simplistic way of thinking about what is possible in the realm of human behavior that never worked, does not work now, and never will work. i can sense the naive idealist who intends well in your words. it is a shame you do not see how the real effect of the ignorantly simplistic way you think about human nature results in so much suffering. you are the prologue to a tragedy. so blind, so naive
free speech is just a tool. it is useful for getting a range of opinions out there. then society is allowed to pick the best opinions, and reject the older ones. in this way, a society with free speech, in a limited range, can evolve into a better society
you mistakenly posit majority speech as a static entity, when it is actually dynamic. it does, as you say, squash and suppress minority beliefs. but as i say, some of those minority beliefs grow over time. they are suppressed, but this just challenges them to present their superior argument more persuasively, and become majority beliefs. while other beliefs are minority beliefs that used to be majority beliefs, and are on their way to extinction. they are dying, and they should die, and there is no value in allowing them to continue to draw breath
you have to understand: rejecting homosexuality used to be a majority belief. it is now a minority belief. accepting homosexuality used to be minority belief. it is now a majority belief. its called memetic evolution: the triumph of superior beliefs over weaker ones, in terms of logic and reason. and this evolution is hurried along by the grease called free speech
you have to understand: there are good beliefs, and there are bad beliefs. and a society which just exists in stasis, with these beliefs never changing, is a weak and poor society
for example, i can tell you that your idea that beliefs should be respected at face value, just because they exist, without examining them and finding flaws in them, is a failed belief on your part
i believe in logic and reason, and that logic and reason will always prevail. free speech is the grease by which logic and reason are worked out, and spread among the general populace, and older, malformed, illogical beliefs die out
i have to question why you feel an attachment to old, malformed beliefs that result in unnecessary suffering, like rejecting homosexuality. and why you do not cheer when these logically wrong beliefs die, as they naturally should die
it's about what society condones. there was a discussion yesterday about duke nukem slapping a woman around in a videogame. society doesn't condone this. there are standards that society wants to promote, such as not hitting women, and accepting homosexuality. any mass marketed media that encourages the opposite behavior will be squashed. and society will always do this, whether you agree with them or not
you can still share your domestic violence video games or anti-homosexual apps in private, amongst your fellow troglodytes, but if you seek some sort of wider social acceptance, and it goes against societal norms, you are going to encounter resistance, right or wrong
if you are right, then you are at the vanguard of a brave and noble struggle to transform society itself. if you are wrong, such as with domestic violence in videgames or antihomosexual bigotry on the iphone, then you are part of the dying embers of a dead era and no one wants anything to do with you
at this point in the thread we are supposed to be screaming at each other and calling each other morons. enough with this civility and agreement bullshit;-)
what i have is righteous anger as a powerless person. until my words result in population bombs in the philippines, helps spreads AIDS in africa, encourages the sexual abuse of children by pedophilie priests, etc., then it is not possible for me to have hubris. hubris implies a fall from upon high. i am not on high. the catholic church power structure is
additionally, i am pointing out an arrogance and ignorance as performed by the catholic church's teachings. how is my pointing out their ignorance a form of ignorance itself? how is my pointing out their arrogance a form of arrogance itself?
i am strident, that's for sure. it's called righteous anger. anger at the catholic church doing evil in the world. do you not understand that this is what their teachings result in? do you deny that?
no, completely different, no contradiction or hypocrisy
i believe that pedophilia, like homosexuality, is a biological, natural, innate malformed sexual orientation. both are malformed in the darwinian sense, the sense that neither, biologically, results in offspring
however, socially, homosexuality is harmless because it occurs between consenting adults. therefore there is no social reason to have any attitude towards homosexuality except to shrug: it doesn't matter, no big deal
unfortunately, pedophiles are oriented towards children. children are not able to make informed consent. of course, children can be fooled into consenting, which many pedophiles think they are doing, but a child is in no position to make decisions about their sexuality, since their sexuality is not formed yet: there is no INFORMED consent possible. furthermore, the influence of the pedophile's advances on that child is harmful to that child's development of their own sexuality. what is appropriate and what is not. therefore the genetic future of the parent of that child is threatened. therefore there is an innate darwinian biological revulsion fear and hatred towards pedophilia: it threatens your genes by threatening the proper formation of the sexuality of your children, which is needed to pass on your genes
so pedophiles, unfortunately, have an innate sexual orientation which utterly and completely dooms their entire lives. in this respect i think of pedophilia like i think of cystic fibrosis or huntington's disease: you are genetically doomed to a life of suffering. either the pedophile can try, often unsuccessfully, to suppress their sexuality their entire lives, or they can engage in activity that is not only criminal, and trangressive towards the healthy psycholigcal development of an innocent child, but you could get killed by enraged parents. there is no way a pedophile can exercise their sexuality without being a criminal. castration doesn't even work: the desires stay in the mind
i really see no solution to pedophilia except banishment to northern greenland. it is a horrible curse. pedophiles just are innately incompatible with human society
as for incest: offspring are possible. biologically, it makes no sense, because the offspring are genetically inferior. socially, it equally makes no sense because now society has to provide medical care and has to deal with intellectually inferior offspring
yes, there are also asexuals. they aren't talked about much, but i've met a few. there are genuinely people in this world who have no sexual inclinations. sexuality does not figure into their thinking, their desires, or any other part of their lives. i agree with you on that
however, what i will deny you is the existence of regular heterosexuals accepting a life that denies them a sexuality. i'm certain that a few fools can delude themselves into thinking this is possible, but of course their innate sexuality never leaves them, and many years later, they are a priest who gets into an affair with parishioner
the real question is why the catholic church has to deny human sexuality? what is gained? nothing. but a lot is lost. the ascetic monk that you allude to, and that i allude to (did you read my whole comment?) are far and few between. and this lifestyle is a choice, not something that can be preached or imposed on a larger population of priests
we are all sexual objects. the idea is to understand and transcend that, and be more than that. not deny it. you are also nothing but a tube that makes poop. there's no point in denying it, its an accurate description. of course, you are way more than that as well. so don't deny it, accept it, and transcend it. the same should be your attitude towards your existence as a sexual object: denying it is fruitless. accepting it and also knowing you are much more, is the only healthy attitude
don't deny your baser more animal existence. just understand that accepting the simple facts does not bind you to that existence only and nothing more
i believe that pedophilia, like homosexuality, is a biological, natural, innate malformed sexual orientation. both are malformed in the darwinian sense, the sense that neither, biologically, results in offspring
however, socially, homosexuality is harmless because it occurs between consenting adults. therefore there is no social reason to have any attitude towards homosexuality except to shrug: it doesn't matter, no big deal
unfortunately, pedophiles are oriented towards children. children are not able to make informed consent. of course, children can be fooled into consenting, which many pedophiles think they are doing, but a child is in no position to make decisions about their sexuality, since their sexuality is not formed yet: there is no INFORMED consent possible. furthermore, the influence of the pedophile's advances on that child is harmful to that child's development of their own sexuality. what is appropriate and what is not. therefore the genetic future of the parent of that child is threatened. therefore there is an innate darwinian biological revulsion fear and hatred towards pedophilia: it threatens your genes by threatening the proper formation of the sexuality of your children, which is needed to pass on your genes
so pedophiles, unfortunately, have an innate sexual orientation which utterly and completely dooms their entire lives. in this respect i think of pedophilia like i think of cystic fibrosis or huntington's disease: you are genetically doomed to a life of suffering. either the pedophile can try, often unsuccessfully, to suppress their sexuality their entire lives, or they can engage in activity that is not only criminal, and trangressive towards the healthy psycholigcal development of an innocent child, but you could get killed by enraged parents. there is no way a pedophile can exercise their sexuality without being a criminal. castration doesn't even work: the desires stay in the mind
i really see no solution to pedophilia except banishment to northern greenland. it is a horrible curse. pedophiles just are innately incompatible with human society
what you wrote is the reason why pedophiles and homosexuals are attracted to the priesthood: they are in denial. they think they can be cured by the love of god. only a homosexual or a pedophile would willingly choose a life that dictates you cannot have sex with a woman or marry one. the catholic church has an ignorant malformed teaching that is ensuring its own downfall. jesus's whole philosophy was very tolerant. a church in his name that is intolerant is therefore not a christian church
the real source of the church's ignorance is this though: there is a sort of spiritual euphoria to be found in denying yourself food, sex, companionship, etc.: the life of a monk, a holy man. but this life is only for one in a million, and is a choice, not something that can be preached from the pulpit and enforced on the masses. the catholic church needs to understand that irrelevancy is the only thing that awaits it in the long term if it continues to embrace ignorance on the issue of human sexuality, just because a few of its holy men have found spiritual satisfaction in the life of the ascetic who denies himself worldly pleasures. this is not a philosophy that can be preached, or enforced. and this is what the church tries to do, and is only failing for doing that
freedom of speech often conflicts with other rights. my right to scream out my window at 4 am interferes with your right to sleep. my right to yell fire in a theater interferes with other people's right to live. my right to call you a murderer interfering with your right to be free of slander
in other words, freedom of speech has natural, logically and philosophically sound limitations in this world. namely, where it interferes with other people's basic rights
and no one has the right to deny you your essential, natural, biologically determined identity. even if you are so psychologically screwed up (by the same sort of bigotry, often from the parents) that you are ashamed or in denial about who you are. the bigot gives up the right to be a bigot when told he can not condemn a sexual orientation he or she doesn't even understand. but the homosexual is told to deny who they are when told he can no longer be a homosexual. in that clash of rights, freedom of speech loses
if you are a homosexual male, you can never be cured. you will have a voice in your head that always orients yourself to other males in a sexual way. you will have that your entire life. shame implies you know what you are, but don't like it. so you are right, shame doesn't always apply. denial might be more appropriate for some: they don't believe they are what they are, even though that is what they are
either way, its psychologically unhealthy, and damages the person. acceptance should exist in their social environment. because where does that shame and denial come from? the bigots in their social environment, often the parents. so this bigotry should be actively discouraged, because the bigot is losing nothing when told not to be a bigot, while the closeted homosexual is losing their psychological health when told to stop being homosexual
there are no two sides. unless by that you mean supporting someone's identity and denying them their identity
no religion can be respected that denies someone who they are. there is no choice here. if you are born with the orientation to view members of your own sex as sexual objects, then you are who you are, and as long as what happens is between consenting adults, there is no crime committed, legally or spiritually
i will respect no religious organization that is so caught up in mumbo jumbo that it thinks it has a right to tell people to deny themselves who they are. plus, the catholic church really needs to learn to shut up about delivering judgments on issues of human sexuality. seeing as the catholic church completely and utterly does nothing but screw that issue up: pedophile priests, helping spread AIDS in africa by telling people not to use condoms, continuing to population time bombs like in the philippines by denying people a right to family planning, etc. this contirbutes to human suffering. these are but a few of the examples of the teachings and policies of the catholic church directly contributing to human suffering in this world. this is what god wants? if jesus christ were alive today, compassionate man he was, he would be speaking out against the catholic church as an abomination of his beliefs
frankly, i admire the catholic's church on issues of social justice, but it when it comes to issues of human sexuality in this world, the catholic church is categorically a force for evil in this world. a bunch of old grumpy VIRGIN MEN (no women, no married priests): what the bleep do these people know about human sexuality and why should we listen to their ideas about it, considering they have no experience with it (or, they're not supposed to, in the case of the many hypocrites on the subject matter in the church)?
so you are right, bigotry is the wrong word
strident arrogant ignorance. or how about hubris
the catholic church really needs to shut up about any and all issues having to deal with human sexuality. it can't seem to do anything on that subject matter except cause evil in the world
would you support an apple app that said instead of getting vaccinations, just hold the iphone to your forehead for 5 minutes while the app is running?
of course you wouldn't because its not a replacement for vaccinations, in fact its worse
the same thing with a "cure" for homosexuality. there is no cure for homosexuality, nor does there need to be one. the point being, this app is a waste of time, and wastes the time of the closeted homosexual who is ashamed of his identity. he has to get over his shame and come out of the closet. no app will "cure" him, ever
so its not about free speech, the same way what jenny mccarthy does with vaccination is not free speech: its dangerous. in jenny mccarthy's case, it results in kids getting sick and dying because she convinced them not to get vaccinated. in this apple app's instance, it convinces closeted homosexuals who are depressed and distraught as it is, and keeps them buried in the closet, prolonging the period in which something psychologically awful might happen
the point is that homosexuality needs to be accepted, so homosexuals can come out of the closet, for the sake of their psychological well-being. its not about free speech when the free speech in issue is just ignorant intolerance that results in psychological damage, or worse (homophobic attacks, encouraged by the anti-homosexual hate speech of the ignorant)
furthermore, the only arrogance here is displayed by someone with zero understanding of the status of political freedoms in other countries delivering opinions about them
you need an education. moron. or learn to shut up about things you don't understand
Slashdot Mirror
And society often pays it, not just individuals. That's why we need strong support for education. You can't leave it up to "free market solves everything" magic.
Come to think of it, the existence of free market fundamentalists is yet another stupidity tax we are all paying, and needs to be cured, with "evil socialist" education.
and robot jude law gigolos!
you are asking someone to suppress their sexuality, because of your morality. you ask a lot of other people you don't even know, for your the sake of your "morality". that observation alone, to ask so much, for the sake of your simplistic thinking, shows that you don't actually stand for morality. true morality doesn't do that
so i ask you to shut up, to learn to tolerate. you ask someone else to suppress their sexual identity
you ask for more than i ask. therefore, you lose
people often associate moral relativism with the left and moral absolutism with the right
you are talking to someone who is a moral absolutist, from the left. i don't just think i am right, i actively call social conservatives a vile evil influence in this world which must be actively denied. i'm not about respect, i am about ideological warfare, and destroying an enemy, an enemy that is very much creating suffering in this world because of their bad ideas. social conservatism is our downfall, and it must be fought
asocial behavior is normal in every one at some point: teenagers have to detach from the home social unit and strike out on themselves. within this inflection point, asocial tendencies can manifest. some periods, in some individuals, of much longer duration
but a pedophile's actions on a sexually and psychologically immature child goes WAY WAY WAY beyond just encouraging asocial behavior
well, i don't really know if homosexuality has any darwinian benefit, but, regardless, considering the population time bomb we are living in, homosexuality should be actively encouraged to reduce the population! (i kid, that makes no sense: you can't turn a homosexual heterosexual, and you can't turn a heterosexual homosexual)
well yeah. raising your nephew to reproductive age is in fact exactly also why worker ants are sterile: helping genes related to yours, not just directly yours. there are many strategies that darwinian evolution allows for in terms of passing on genes. but any behavior that results in less chance of getting your genes passed on, such as allowing a pedophile to screw up a sexually immature relative's psychology, will be actively pruned
historically acceptable
a man could have a bride who was 13, no big deal. but this is also from the era when slavery was ok, women had no rights, etc: more brutal times. we now recognize that teenagers are physically mature, but psychologically immature. it is in the interest of a stronger society that we keep mature adults, perhaps predatory in their interests (use them and lose them) away from teenagers. let teenagers experiment sexually amongst themselves, before they are ready for the tougher "real world", where they can handle the tricks and manipulations with a stronger confidence and psychological toughness
of course, biologically, you have no reason to respect this. i myself have been physiologically turned on by jailbait. but just because my dick is hard doesn't mean i have to follow it: i don't want to do harm in this world. so i hope psychologically you see why you need to respect that teenagers are off limits. prey on college kids, no younger, please
yes. and there's also the side that says creationism is a respectable answer to evolution. and that phrenology is an acceptable answer to psychology. and that magnets on your wrists cures cancer. and the earth is flat. etc
just because you trot out pseudoscientific nonsense with a straight face does not mean your position deserves respect. it only means you have a laformed thought which needs more thinking. homosexuality is a biological, innate desire. try to understand that is true. i'm not going to convince you in a thread on slashdot, do your research to catch up with confirmed fact
your idea deserves no respect for the same reason jenny mccarthy deserves no respect: what you think is logically wrong and downright dangerous
wow, a true believer
you are WAAAAY out there in fingers stuck in ears land aren't you? just incredibly ignorant and blind
the only thing i can say to you that might change your blindness and ignorance is this:
if you preach a behavior, that no human society, in any time period, of all history, and all geography, has ever been able to adhere to, then maybe you need to change what you preach, no?
i can say nothing more to you and your foolishness. you are part of the force of evil i referred to. because in your ignorance and blindness, you preach things which are incompatible with basic human nature. in my mind, you are similar to the utopianists of the 19th century: preaching failed utopian ideals, that just don't work in society, and wind up creating dystopias. which is exactly what your ideology does in the world, in fact: create dystopia, suffering. out of a ham-fisted overly simplistic way of thinking about what is possible in the realm of human behavior that never worked, does not work now, and never will work. i can sense the naive idealist who intends well in your words. it is a shame you do not see how the real effect of the ignorantly simplistic way you think about human nature results in so much suffering. you are the prologue to a tragedy. so blind, so naive
free speech is just a tool. it is useful for getting a range of opinions out there. then society is allowed to pick the best opinions, and reject the older ones. in this way, a society with free speech, in a limited range, can evolve into a better society
you mistakenly posit majority speech as a static entity, when it is actually dynamic. it does, as you say, squash and suppress minority beliefs. but as i say, some of those minority beliefs grow over time. they are suppressed, but this just challenges them to present their superior argument more persuasively, and become majority beliefs. while other beliefs are minority beliefs that used to be majority beliefs, and are on their way to extinction. they are dying, and they should die, and there is no value in allowing them to continue to draw breath
you have to understand: rejecting homosexuality used to be a majority belief. it is now a minority belief. accepting homosexuality used to be minority belief. it is now a majority belief. its called memetic evolution: the triumph of superior beliefs over weaker ones, in terms of logic and reason. and this evolution is hurried along by the grease called free speech
you have to understand: there are good beliefs, and there are bad beliefs. and a society which just exists in stasis, with these beliefs never changing, is a weak and poor society
for example, i can tell you that your idea that beliefs should be respected at face value, just because they exist, without examining them and finding flaws in them, is a failed belief on your part
i believe in logic and reason, and that logic and reason will always prevail. free speech is the grease by which logic and reason are worked out, and spread among the general populace, and older, malformed, illogical beliefs die out
i have to question why you feel an attachment to old, malformed beliefs that result in unnecessary suffering, like rejecting homosexuality. and why you do not cheer when these logically wrong beliefs die, as they naturally should die
it's about what society condones. there was a discussion yesterday about duke nukem slapping a woman around in a videogame. society doesn't condone this. there are standards that society wants to promote, such as not hitting women, and accepting homosexuality. any mass marketed media that encourages the opposite behavior will be squashed. and society will always do this, whether you agree with them or not
you can still share your domestic violence video games or anti-homosexual apps in private, amongst your fellow troglodytes, but if you seek some sort of wider social acceptance, and it goes against societal norms, you are going to encounter resistance, right or wrong
if you are right, then you are at the vanguard of a brave and noble struggle to transform society itself. if you are wrong, such as with domestic violence in videgames or antihomosexual bigotry on the iphone, then you are part of the dying embers of a dead era and no one wants anything to do with you
no
at this point in the thread we are supposed to be screaming at each other and calling each other morons. enough with this civility and agreement bullshit ;-)
what i have is righteous anger as a powerless person. until my words result in population bombs in the philippines, helps spreads AIDS in africa, encourages the sexual abuse of children by pedophilie priests, etc., then it is not possible for me to have hubris. hubris implies a fall from upon high. i am not on high. the catholic church power structure is
additionally, i am pointing out an arrogance and ignorance as performed by the catholic church's teachings. how is my pointing out their ignorance a form of ignorance itself? how is my pointing out their arrogance a form of arrogance itself?
i am strident, that's for sure. it's called righteous anger. anger at the catholic church doing evil in the world. do you not understand that this is what their teachings result in? do you deny that?
no, completely different, no contradiction or hypocrisy
i believe that pedophilia, like homosexuality, is a biological, natural, innate malformed sexual orientation. both are malformed in the darwinian sense, the sense that neither, biologically, results in offspring
however, socially, homosexuality is harmless because it occurs between consenting adults. therefore there is no social reason to have any attitude towards homosexuality except to shrug: it doesn't matter, no big deal
unfortunately, pedophiles are oriented towards children. children are not able to make informed consent. of course, children can be fooled into consenting, which many pedophiles think they are doing, but a child is in no position to make decisions about their sexuality, since their sexuality is not formed yet: there is no INFORMED consent possible. furthermore, the influence of the pedophile's advances on that child is harmful to that child's development of their own sexuality. what is appropriate and what is not. therefore the genetic future of the parent of that child is threatened. therefore there is an innate darwinian biological revulsion fear and hatred towards pedophilia: it threatens your genes by threatening the proper formation of the sexuality of your children, which is needed to pass on your genes
so pedophiles, unfortunately, have an innate sexual orientation which utterly and completely dooms their entire lives. in this respect i think of pedophilia like i think of cystic fibrosis or huntington's disease: you are genetically doomed to a life of suffering. either the pedophile can try, often unsuccessfully, to suppress their sexuality their entire lives, or they can engage in activity that is not only criminal, and trangressive towards the healthy psycholigcal development of an innocent child, but you could get killed by enraged parents. there is no way a pedophile can exercise their sexuality without being a criminal. castration doesn't even work: the desires stay in the mind
i really see no solution to pedophilia except banishment to northern greenland. it is a horrible curse. pedophiles just are innately incompatible with human society
as for incest: offspring are possible. biologically, it makes no sense, because the offspring are genetically inferior. socially, it equally makes no sense because now society has to provide medical care and has to deal with intellectually inferior offspring
yes, there are also asexuals. they aren't talked about much, but i've met a few. there are genuinely people in this world who have no sexual inclinations. sexuality does not figure into their thinking, their desires, or any other part of their lives. i agree with you on that
however, what i will deny you is the existence of regular heterosexuals accepting a life that denies them a sexuality. i'm certain that a few fools can delude themselves into thinking this is possible, but of course their innate sexuality never leaves them, and many years later, they are a priest who gets into an affair with parishioner
the real question is why the catholic church has to deny human sexuality? what is gained? nothing. but a lot is lost. the ascetic monk that you allude to, and that i allude to (did you read my whole comment?) are far and few between. and this lifestyle is a choice, not something that can be preached or imposed on a larger population of priests
we are all sexual objects. the idea is to understand and transcend that, and be more than that. not deny it. you are also nothing but a tube that makes poop. there's no point in denying it, its an accurate description. of course, you are way more than that as well. so don't deny it, accept it, and transcend it. the same should be your attitude towards your existence as a sexual object: denying it is fruitless. accepting it and also knowing you are much more, is the only healthy attitude
don't deny your baser more animal existence. just understand that accepting the simple facts does not bind you to that existence only and nothing more
i believe that pedophilia, like homosexuality, is a biological, natural, innate malformed sexual orientation. both are malformed in the darwinian sense, the sense that neither, biologically, results in offspring
however, socially, homosexuality is harmless because it occurs between consenting adults. therefore there is no social reason to have any attitude towards homosexuality except to shrug: it doesn't matter, no big deal
unfortunately, pedophiles are oriented towards children. children are not able to make informed consent. of course, children can be fooled into consenting, which many pedophiles think they are doing, but a child is in no position to make decisions about their sexuality, since their sexuality is not formed yet: there is no INFORMED consent possible. furthermore, the influence of the pedophile's advances on that child is harmful to that child's development of their own sexuality. what is appropriate and what is not. therefore the genetic future of the parent of that child is threatened. therefore there is an innate darwinian biological revulsion fear and hatred towards pedophilia: it threatens your genes by threatening the proper formation of the sexuality of your children, which is needed to pass on your genes
so pedophiles, unfortunately, have an innate sexual orientation which utterly and completely dooms their entire lives. in this respect i think of pedophilia like i think of cystic fibrosis or huntington's disease: you are genetically doomed to a life of suffering. either the pedophile can try, often unsuccessfully, to suppress their sexuality their entire lives, or they can engage in activity that is not only criminal, and trangressive towards the healthy psycholigcal development of an innocent child, but you could get killed by enraged parents. there is no way a pedophile can exercise their sexuality without being a criminal. castration doesn't even work: the desires stay in the mind
i really see no solution to pedophilia except banishment to northern greenland. it is a horrible curse. pedophiles just are innately incompatible with human society
what you wrote is the reason why pedophiles and homosexuals are attracted to the priesthood: they are in denial. they think they can be cured by the love of god. only a homosexual or a pedophile would willingly choose a life that dictates you cannot have sex with a woman or marry one. the catholic church has an ignorant malformed teaching that is ensuring its own downfall. jesus's whole philosophy was very tolerant. a church in his name that is intolerant is therefore not a christian church
the real source of the church's ignorance is this though: there is a sort of spiritual euphoria to be found in denying yourself food, sex, companionship, etc.: the life of a monk, a holy man. but this life is only for one in a million, and is a choice, not something that can be preached from the pulpit and enforced on the masses. the catholic church needs to understand that irrelevancy is the only thing that awaits it in the long term if it continues to embrace ignorance on the issue of human sexuality, just because a few of its holy men have found spiritual satisfaction in the life of the ascetic who denies himself worldly pleasures. this is not a philosophy that can be preached, or enforced. and this is what the church tries to do, and is only failing for doing that
slashdot is a waste of time. i demand it be shut down!
(i keed, i keed)
freedom of speech often conflicts with other rights. my right to scream out my window at 4 am interferes with your right to sleep. my right to yell fire in a theater interferes with other people's right to live. my right to call you a murderer interfering with your right to be free of slander
in other words, freedom of speech has natural, logically and philosophically sound limitations in this world. namely, where it interferes with other people's basic rights
and no one has the right to deny you your essential, natural, biologically determined identity. even if you are so psychologically screwed up (by the same sort of bigotry, often from the parents) that you are ashamed or in denial about who you are. the bigot gives up the right to be a bigot when told he can not condemn a sexual orientation he or she doesn't even understand. but the homosexual is told to deny who they are when told he can no longer be a homosexual. in that clash of rights, freedom of speech loses
if you are a homosexual male, you can never be cured. you will have a voice in your head that always orients yourself to other males in a sexual way. you will have that your entire life. shame implies you know what you are, but don't like it. so you are right, shame doesn't always apply. denial might be more appropriate for some: they don't believe they are what they are, even though that is what they are
either way, its psychologically unhealthy, and damages the person. acceptance should exist in their social environment. because where does that shame and denial come from? the bigots in their social environment, often the parents. so this bigotry should be actively discouraged, because the bigot is losing nothing when told not to be a bigot, while the closeted homosexual is losing their psychological health when told to stop being homosexual
there are no two sides. unless by that you mean supporting someone's identity and denying them their identity
no religion can be respected that denies someone who they are. there is no choice here. if you are born with the orientation to view members of your own sex as sexual objects, then you are who you are, and as long as what happens is between consenting adults, there is no crime committed, legally or spiritually
i will respect no religious organization that is so caught up in mumbo jumbo that it thinks it has a right to tell people to deny themselves who they are. plus, the catholic church really needs to learn to shut up about delivering judgments on issues of human sexuality. seeing as the catholic church completely and utterly does nothing but screw that issue up: pedophile priests, helping spread AIDS in africa by telling people not to use condoms, continuing to population time bombs like in the philippines by denying people a right to family planning, etc. this contirbutes to human suffering. these are but a few of the examples of the teachings and policies of the catholic church directly contributing to human suffering in this world. this is what god wants? if jesus christ were alive today, compassionate man he was, he would be speaking out against the catholic church as an abomination of his beliefs
frankly, i admire the catholic's church on issues of social justice, but it when it comes to issues of human sexuality in this world, the catholic church is categorically a force for evil in this world. a bunch of old grumpy VIRGIN MEN (no women, no married priests): what the bleep do these people know about human sexuality and why should we listen to their ideas about it, considering they have no experience with it (or, they're not supposed to, in the case of the many hypocrites on the subject matter in the church)?
so you are right, bigotry is the wrong word
strident arrogant ignorance. or how about hubris
the catholic church really needs to shut up about any and all issues having to deal with human sexuality. it can't seem to do anything on that subject matter except cause evil in the world
would you support an apple app that said instead of getting vaccinations, just hold the iphone to your forehead for 5 minutes while the app is running?
of course you wouldn't because its not a replacement for vaccinations, in fact its worse
the same thing with a "cure" for homosexuality. there is no cure for homosexuality, nor does there need to be one. the point being, this app is a waste of time, and wastes the time of the closeted homosexual who is ashamed of his identity. he has to get over his shame and come out of the closet. no app will "cure" him, ever
so its not about free speech, the same way what jenny mccarthy does with vaccination is not free speech: its dangerous. in jenny mccarthy's case, it results in kids getting sick and dying because she convinced them not to get vaccinated. in this apple app's instance, it convinces closeted homosexuals who are depressed and distraught as it is, and keeps them buried in the closet, prolonging the period in which something psychologically awful might happen
the point is that homosexuality needs to be accepted, so homosexuals can come out of the closet, for the sake of their psychological well-being. its not about free speech when the free speech in issue is just ignorant intolerance that results in psychological damage, or worse (homophobic attacks, encouraged by the anti-homosexual hate speech of the ignorant)
i have problems because ignorance makes me angry?
furthermore, the only arrogance here is displayed by someone with zero understanding of the status of political freedoms in other countries delivering opinions about them
you need an education. moron. or learn to shut up about things you don't understand