I'm more shocked that you seem to be incapable of seeing something as not black or white.
Yes, a family is not _identical_ to a dictatorship. Most dads don't have a toothbrush moustache or hold long shouting speeches. But basically, what the parents say is law (to reasonable limitations). That doesn't mean children have no room to grow or whatever other nonsense strawman you're building.
A 7 year old doesn't have a right to privacy. Of course, reasonable parents will grant privacy in some things, but access to an internet connected computer without the possibility of supervision is insane. This girls older brother is probably in his teens and is going through his rebellious phase and is feeling offended on behalf of his younger siblings. The girl's younger brother has netnanny installed on his computer? Good! Even better would be to only allow internet access under direct supervision, but a software solution might be ok in this case.
Yep. All those things are nice. But all those things come at a cost. So far, that cost has been relatively minimal, with low oil prices keeping the cost down on your transportation to and from your standalone house, the heating for its poorly insulated walls and lots of windows, the trucking miles to ship all the stuff you use and food you eat to the closest store... Now that is changing, and while you might like your cozy house, it's going to cost you more and more to maintain it. Maybe it won't be a problem for you, but for a lot of people that are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy already from their mortgage, these increases will force them to move to more sustainable places (like dense urban housing, where you can walk to work or to public transit, where you don't need to own a car at all, and where your building houses dozens of people, making it more efficient to heat).
Since 2005 it's been flat. And yet prices have skyrocketed in that time. In 2000, OPEC promised to adjust production to keep prices around $22-$28/barrel. Then in 2007 they said prices would stay around $50-$60/barrel until 2030. Well it's one year later and prices are at $100. All this time OPEC hasn't increased production, and they may even reduce production at their next meeting in the spring (no solid source for that one, just what I heard on the news). So they have every reason to increase production, and have had every reason to do so for years, but they've done nothing.
That to me is very suspicious. Either there is a massive conspiracy to hike up the cost of oil (incredibly unlikely) or they just can't keep up with the production, despite their claims. The latter is pretty much the only likely solution.
The thing is though, it's not even the viruses for me. I have been running XP and previous versions of Windows for years and years, and I haven't had a virus since Blaster. Most of the time I don't even bother running an antivirus program or a firewall and my system is still clean. If you have a little bit of common sense your chance of being infected is very low.
But I still get the same feeling that my computer is just a playground for different companies to run their buggy software on. Every little piece of hardware comes with a stupid tray icon to manage something useless. Every program wants to nag me about something, or install their own updater service and then bitch at me about letting it install some update or other. The start menu is full of entries corresponding to names of companies that I couldn't give a flying fig about. Windows update will randomly decide that it will restart the system that I've left running overnight to finish a compile. The whole system is just very inefficient and frustrating.
That kind of thing just doesn't happen on Linux. Everything is integrated into one updating service. Everything shares the same libraries as much as possible. "Start" menu entries are organized by function, not by who wrote the program. I realize no non-geek would give a crap about any of this, but I really don't like it when software does its own thing and presumes to know better.
Google also has personalized home pages where you can throw news boxes or RSS feeds or gadgets together on one page, in case you want to switch at some point. http://www.google.com/ig
You listed some of them. But also reusable software components on windows need to be purchased. You get all the KDE libraries for free once you have a Qt license. MFC and its ilk are not comparable, so then you have to go to.NET which brings its own set of restrictions. Just look at software development companies and see how much professional tools cost.
The difference is that they where complete at the time they hit.0.0 they may have had bugs but they had the features that they said that (2.0 or 2.6 o 5.0 pick one) was supposed to have.
Same with KDE 4.0. They said not all the features would make it into the.0 release.
kde 4 is loaded with features that are not there yet not buggy
Not there yet not buggy? That's the easiest software to write:)
You don't usually have a big release party for Development version but a release should be feature complete..
And feature complete means what exactly? Gnome 2.0 was lacking a lot of features compared to 1.4. PHP 5.0 was lacking support for just about all the extensions out there, same with Apache 2.0. For someone relying on those extensions, those products were also not feature complete.
Also can someone tell me what is with those cartoonish windows around every icon?
They are an artifact of broken icon support. They will be fixed as soon as possible
Sure, if you're a hobbyist that'll be enough. But no serious software development company uses Visual Studio Express. Then if you're building a big projects you need access to libraries, and you'll have to buy software components to accomplish certain tasks.
So yes, if you're wanting to write a little shareware utility, then Windows will be a cheaper target (not to mention that there is about zero point in writing that kind of stuff for Linux), but if you're at all serious about getting into the business, the development overhead is insignificant and about equal on the various platforms. If you're paying for Qt then you get cross platform compatibility and integration for free. If you really can't stand it, then use wxWidgets or C# or XUL or something. It will still run just fine in a KDE desktop.
Then again, I'm less likely to mind the "yeah, sorry, we haven't had the time to implemet $OPTION properly, but we'll have it in the next version" attitude than the "it was confusing some users, so we removed it" one.
That's the key right there. Features missing in KDE 4.0 aren't there because although the devs tried their best, they just didn't have time to add everything. Most of these features will be added back in due course.
Aside from the thousands you'll spend on Windows licenses, Visual Studio licenses, and pre-built closed source components and other developer tools. Don't fool yourself into thinking that developing for windows is cheap.
Shame on KDE for redefining the meaning of a point oh release.
This gets tiring quickly. Gnome 2.0, PHP 5.0, Apache 2.0, Linux Kernel 2.6.0, etc, etc
None of those releases were completely stable or polished, or had all features from the previous series. That's how.0 releases for large projects are, no matter if they are open source or proprietary (Vista, OS X 10.0).
That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better, but it's not like KDE 4.0 is an exception.
IIRC, 3.0 was a big improvement over 2.0 in functionality and elegance
You're looking back with rose coloured glasses. KDE 3.0 had a hideous default look and wasn't terribly stable. The only reason it was reasonably featureful was because not a lot of the core changed from KDE 2. But then it turned into a great series, just like KDE 4 will eventually.
And how would they advertise this? I can just see it, on the front page of their website "We deny a paying customer our product, so watch out all the rest of you!"
Bullshit. You don't build a business by turning away paying customers. Trolltech would never deny you a license, because 99% of the time they'd never know, then 0.99% of the time they might know but don't care because a sale's a sale, and they will continue to make money off that customer now that he/she started using the proprietary version. 0.01% left out for the inevitable exceptions.
Denying someone a license to set an example would never happen, because no-one would know of the example because you can't advertise it, and you lose out on an immediate sale, and you get bad publicity ("Those assholes at trolltech screwed our product because of a technicality").
Maybe the 15 min of random party footage that could have been lifted from youtube. Or the hour of crappy acting, characters that made you want to kill them yourself, unrealistic behaviour, and generic monsters lifted from a collection of video games. What a huge waste of time.
Over GTK? No, the exact opposite. GTK is a shell on top (Openoffice also has a Qt shell). And you think that doesn't contribute to bloat? It's worse, because now you've actually got two whole toolkits loaded in memory at any given time. So don't think you're really saving anything.
I can go to.gtkrc* and do it, it will reflect on every software using Gtk
Well when I'm running KDE, I change the colours and fonts, and those colours get applied to GTK apps if I tick the box..
I simply find stupid the idea of having two different installed toolkits on the same computer
Why? That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless you really can't spare the extra ~5mb of ram, what's the issue? You realize that Windows is probably running about 5 different toolkits at once right?
less importantly but still somewhat relevant, OpenOffice
You do realize that Openoffice uses its own toolkit called VCL, right? Which means, that your computer has two different toolkits installed! Egad! Quick, uninstall Openoffice! The only reason it integrates into Gnome is because there is a GTK compatibility layer, just like there is a Qt compatibility layer for KDE.
Not to mention Firefox uses XUL and XBL. GTK can be used to render some interface widgets, but that is minor in comparison.
While you are technically correct (Trolltech say you must start with the commercial version if you're gonna use it at all), realistically that's not the case. First of all, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. They just want you to buy your licenses early, but its not like they could do anything about it if you don't. Secondly, it's not like they're going to refuse to sell you a license when you want to buy one, because you now decided to make your program closed source. Thirdly, they won't ever find out.
So just start your project with the GPL version, and if it turns out you need the proprietary license down the line, go buy it. Qt is an amazing toolkit, and it's well worth the money.
Yeah I only quoted 10.1 because the OP said that was the best version of OS X. 10.0 had minimum reqs of 64MB, and I don't doubt it ran on that, but that's still twice of the claimed 32MB.
1. American automakers produce cars of all types, including ones that get super gas mileage.
Depends on your definition of super. Right now, nothing beats Toyota for gas mileage.
2. Toyota makes cars other than the Yaris, including pickups which get abysmal gas mileage.
Of course, (although once again not as abysmal as GM or Ford stuff). But the important thing here is the average. GM average fleet economy is around 29MPG, while Toyota is at 34.7. Can't argue with that.
3. The Japanese automakers do not have the only engineers that can produce good cars (my Japanese car has been to the shop for repairs equaling anything I've ever experienced with my past Ford cars).
4. Nor do the Japanese hold the exclusive rights to competent economists.
No, but they are far ahead when it comes to efficient manufacturing processes, and hybrid technologies.
5. My car is a high performance car, gets about ~20 mpg, and is made in Japan, not America.
So? This has no effect on anything. Performance cars will always exist, and they will always get crap mileage.
The file open/save dialog is one example of lacking integration. That might fly for something like Pidgin, but I could never deliver an app with a GTK file dialog to a customer on Windows.
Not that exact scenario, but obviously people do care about the general crappiness of Vista. PC makers are not reinstating XP for shits and giggles. They're doing it because a significant chunk of the population protested against Vista.
I'll save you some time and tell you that you can't change the panel yet. It's coming though. KDE 4.0.0 is going to be a bit rough, so don't let that taint your perception of the whole KDE 4 cycle.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm more shocked that you seem to be incapable of seeing something as not black or white.
Yes, a family is not _identical_ to a dictatorship. Most dads don't have a toothbrush moustache or hold long shouting speeches. But basically, what the parents say is law (to reasonable limitations). That doesn't mean children have no room to grow or whatever other nonsense strawman you're building.
A 7 year old doesn't have a right to privacy. Of course, reasonable parents will grant privacy in some things, but access to an internet connected computer without the possibility of supervision is insane. This girls older brother is probably in his teens and is going through his rebellious phase and is feeling offended on behalf of his younger siblings. The girl's younger brother has netnanny installed on his computer? Good! Even better would be to only allow internet access under direct supervision, but a software solution might be ok in this case.
Yep. All those things are nice. But all those things come at a cost. So far, that cost has been relatively minimal, with low oil prices keeping the cost down on your transportation to and from your standalone house, the heating for its poorly insulated walls and lots of windows, the trucking miles to ship all the stuff you use and food you eat to the closest store... Now that is changing, and while you might like your cozy house, it's going to cost you more and more to maintain it. Maybe it won't be a problem for you, but for a lot of people that are teetering on the edge of bankruptcy already from their mortgage, these increases will force them to move to more sustainable places (like dense urban housing, where you can walk to work or to public transit, where you don't need to own a car at all, and where your building houses dozens of people, making it more efficient to heat).
Well there's definitely something going on. Look at the OPEC oil production over the last few years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GlobalCrudeOilProduction2001-mid2007.png
Since 2005 it's been flat. And yet prices have skyrocketed in that time. In 2000, OPEC promised to adjust production to keep prices around $22-$28/barrel. Then in 2007 they said prices would stay around $50-$60/barrel until 2030. Well it's one year later and prices are at $100. All this time OPEC hasn't increased production, and they may even reduce production at their next meeting in the spring (no solid source for that one, just what I heard on the news). So they have every reason to increase production, and have had every reason to do so for years, but they've done nothing.
That to me is very suspicious. Either there is a massive conspiracy to hike up the cost of oil (incredibly unlikely) or they just can't keep up with the production, despite their claims. The latter is pretty much the only likely solution.
The thing is though, it's not even the viruses for me. I have been running XP and previous versions of Windows for years and years, and I haven't had a virus since Blaster. Most of the time I don't even bother running an antivirus program or a firewall and my system is still clean. If you have a little bit of common sense your chance of being infected is very low.
But I still get the same feeling that my computer is just a playground for different companies to run their buggy software on. Every little piece of hardware comes with a stupid tray icon to manage something useless. Every program wants to nag me about something, or install their own updater service and then bitch at me about letting it install some update or other. The start menu is full of entries corresponding to names of companies that I couldn't give a flying fig about. Windows update will randomly decide that it will restart the system that I've left running overnight to finish a compile. The whole system is just very inefficient and frustrating.
That kind of thing just doesn't happen on Linux. Everything is integrated into one updating service. Everything shares the same libraries as much as possible. "Start" menu entries are organized by function, not by who wrote the program. I realize no non-geek would give a crap about any of this, but I really don't like it when software does its own thing and presumes to know better.
Google also has personalized home pages where you can throw news boxes or RSS feeds or gadgets together on one page, in case you want to switch at some point. http://www.google.com/ig
You listed some of them. But also reusable software components on windows need to be purchased. You get all the KDE libraries for free once you have a Qt license. MFC and its ilk are not comparable, so then you have to go to .NET which brings its own set of restrictions. Just look at software development companies and see how much professional tools cost.
The difference is that they where complete at the time they hit .0.0 they may have had bugs but they had the features that they said that (2.0 or 2.6 o 5.0 pick one) was supposed to have.
.0 release.
:)
Same with KDE 4.0. They said not all the features would make it into the
kde 4 is loaded with features that are not there yet not buggy
Not there yet not buggy? That's the easiest software to write
You don't usually have a big release party for Development version but a release should be feature complete..
And feature complete means what exactly? Gnome 2.0 was lacking a lot of features compared to 1.4. PHP 5.0 was lacking support for just about all the extensions out there, same with Apache 2.0. For someone relying on those extensions, those products were also not feature complete.
Also can someone tell me what is with those cartoonish windows around every icon?
They are an artifact of broken icon support. They will be fixed as soon as possible
Sure, if you're a hobbyist that'll be enough. But no serious software development company uses Visual Studio Express. Then if you're building a big projects you need access to libraries, and you'll have to buy software components to accomplish certain tasks.
So yes, if you're wanting to write a little shareware utility, then Windows will be a cheaper target (not to mention that there is about zero point in writing that kind of stuff for Linux), but if you're at all serious about getting into the business, the development overhead is insignificant and about equal on the various platforms. If you're paying for Qt then you get cross platform compatibility and integration for free. If you really can't stand it, then use wxWidgets or C# or XUL or something. It will still run just fine in a KDE desktop.
Then again, I'm less likely to mind the "yeah, sorry, we haven't had the time to implemet $OPTION properly, but we'll have it in the next version" attitude than the "it was confusing some users, so we removed it" one.
That's the key right there. Features missing in KDE 4.0 aren't there because although the devs tried their best, they just didn't have time to add everything. Most of these features will be added back in due course.
Aside from the thousands you'll spend on Windows licenses, Visual Studio licenses, and pre-built closed source components and other developer tools. Don't fool yourself into thinking that developing for windows is cheap.
Shame on KDE for redefining the meaning of a point oh release.
.0 releases for large projects are, no matter if they are open source or proprietary (Vista, OS X 10.0).
This gets tiring quickly. Gnome 2.0, PHP 5.0, Apache 2.0, Linux Kernel 2.6.0, etc, etc
None of those releases were completely stable or polished, or had all features from the previous series. That's how
That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to do better, but it's not like KDE 4.0 is an exception.
IIRC, 3.0 was a big improvement over 2.0 in functionality and elegance
You're looking back with rose coloured glasses. KDE 3.0 had a hideous default look and wasn't terribly stable. The only reason it was reasonably featureful was because not a lot of the core changed from KDE 2. But then it turned into a great series, just like KDE 4 will eventually.
And how would they advertise this? I can just see it, on the front page of their website "We deny a paying customer our product, so watch out all the rest of you!"
Bullshit. You don't build a business by turning away paying customers. Trolltech would never deny you a license, because 99% of the time they'd never know, then 0.99% of the time they might know but don't care because a sale's a sale, and they will continue to make money off that customer now that he/she started using the proprietary version. 0.01% left out for the inevitable exceptions.
Denying someone a license to set an example would never happen, because no-one would know of the example because you can't advertise it, and you lose out on an immediate sale, and you get bad publicity ("Those assholes at trolltech screwed our product because of a technicality").
>> Um, they could simply refuse to sell you a license.
Yes I'm sure they would love to miss out on a few thousand dollars.
Which part exactly was "fucking incredible"?
Maybe the 15 min of random party footage that could have been lifted from youtube. Or the hour of crappy acting, characters that made you want to kill them yourself, unrealistic behaviour, and generic monsters lifted from a collection of video games.
What a huge waste of time.
All of them running over Gtk.
.gtkrc* and do it, it will reflect on every software using Gtk
Over GTK? No, the exact opposite. GTK is a shell on top (Openoffice also has a Qt shell). And you think that doesn't contribute to bloat? It's worse, because now you've actually got two whole toolkits loaded in memory at any given time. So don't think you're really saving anything.
I can go to
Well when I'm running KDE, I change the colours and fonts, and those colours get applied to GTK apps if I tick the box..
I simply find stupid the idea of having two different installed toolkits on the same computer
Why? That makes no sense whatsoever. Unless you really can't spare the extra ~5mb of ram, what's the issue? You realize that Windows is probably running about 5 different toolkits at once right?
less importantly but still somewhat relevant, OpenOffice
You do realize that Openoffice uses its own toolkit called VCL, right? Which means, that your computer has two different toolkits installed! Egad! Quick, uninstall Openoffice!
The only reason it integrates into Gnome is because there is a GTK compatibility layer, just like there is a Qt compatibility layer for KDE.
Not to mention Firefox uses XUL and XBL. GTK can be used to render some interface widgets, but that is minor in comparison.
While you are technically correct (Trolltech say you must start with the commercial version if you're gonna use it at all), realistically that's not the case.
First of all, they don't have a legal leg to stand on. They just want you to buy your licenses early, but its not like they could do anything about it if you don't.
Secondly, it's not like they're going to refuse to sell you a license when you want to buy one, because you now decided to make your program closed source.
Thirdly, they won't ever find out.
So just start your project with the GPL version, and if it turns out you need the proprietary license down the line, go buy it. Qt is an amazing toolkit, and it's well worth the money.
Well Java language bindings are officially supported: http://trolltech.com/products/qt/jambi
Also python is very well maintained: http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/pyqt/
And you can do a lot of scripting with QtScript.
Sure, do you have about 3 x 10^600 computers handy?
Yeah I only quoted 10.1 because the OP said that was the best version of OS X. 10.0 had minimum reqs of 64MB, and I don't doubt it ran on that, but that's still twice of the claimed 32MB.
1. American automakers produce cars of all types, including ones that get super gas mileage.
Depends on your definition of super. Right now, nothing beats Toyota for gas mileage.
2. Toyota makes cars other than the Yaris, including pickups which get abysmal gas mileage.
Of course, (although once again not as abysmal as GM or Ford stuff). But the important thing here is the average. GM average fleet economy is around 29MPG, while Toyota is at 34.7. Can't argue with that.
3. The Japanese automakers do not have the only engineers that can produce good cars (my Japanese car has been to the shop for repairs equaling anything I've ever experienced with my past Ford cars).
4. Nor do the Japanese hold the exclusive rights to competent economists.
No, but they are far ahead when it comes to efficient manufacturing processes, and hybrid technologies.
5. My car is a high performance car, gets about ~20 mpg, and is made in Japan, not America.
So? This has no effect on anything. Performance cars will always exist, and they will always get crap mileage.
The file open/save dialog is one example of lacking integration. That might fly for something like Pidgin, but I could never deliver an app with a GTK file dialog to a customer on Windows.
Not that exact scenario, but obviously people do care about the general crappiness of Vista. PC makers are not reinstating XP for shits and giggles. They're doing it because a significant chunk of the population protested against Vista.
I'll save you some time and tell you that you can't change the panel yet. It's coming though. KDE 4.0.0 is going to be a bit rough, so don't let that taint your perception of the whole KDE 4 cycle.