Is that guaranteed.... like say early cable modem providers "guaranteed"?
I'm sure if all of their customers actually used 10GB they wouldn't think it's so cheap. Say they use 200GB disks [309$ CDN locally...] they would have to have 19 customers for 2 months to pay it off.
Doesn't sound like much, but what if they need say 10 drives to accomodate their customers? Chances are that's at least two computers [I dunno how that translates into U/2U] which means more money, etc... I found a 1U co-locate for 150$/mo. Assuming two 2U spots costs say 500$ you need at least 50 customers each month to turn bank (they will also consume 3 200GB disks...). Presumably you will want to give them say 10GB traffic too. Well that's another 5$ per user or 250$...
So right now you're upto ~750$ per month. But you're only making 500$ a month... so you cheap on the disks cuz they won't fill it up. And you cheap on the bandwidth budget cuz they won't fill it up....
Then when they do you accidentally exercise the "I'm bigger than you clause" where you say "unlimited meant reasonably unlimited and reasonably means you are owned.";-)
To address your first paragraph.... Why do you assume there is no limit? Maybe circuit building is a O(n^10) process?
To address your second paragraph.... "time per solution" meant the time it takes to make the actual device. If it takes 2^100 years to design an AES cracker I don't care.
Overall... I never said QC is impossible. I just hate how people spin [forgive the pun] things to no logical ends.... OMG they can factor the number 15. That means the technology works. Doesn't mean it will scale. Factoring 15 and a 1000-bit composite are not the same order of magnitude.
Similarly AES is not a trivial algorithm. Designing a QC for AES may prove to be intractable. Which means all the QC hype in the world won't break AES.
Who knows. Keep an open mind and don't make stupid conclusions like "crypto is dead" or "your mother is a whore".
I mean companies like Motorolla and AMD are not entirely US based anyways? AMD has a fab in Germany. Does that count as "outsourcing? They make the parts in Malaysia [for basically ever...] is that "outsourcing"?
Who says a company must solely have business in US?
The way I look at Govt. is that it's supposed to maintain the status quo. That means kids goto school, sick goto doctors and people drive on highways [without holes the size of beachballs], etc, etc, etc.
So I'd say the govt should promote job growth [e.g. lowering taxes or giving grants or simply being ameniable to business] while not compromising the status quo.
Who the fuck says Americans are fucking entitled to the jobs in the first place? You're telling me a person from India, China, Korean [fuck even Canada] is not entitled to work in the software industry?
Who the fuck built your buildings, roads and railways anyways? Sure as heck were uppity white-collars from England. It was the chinese, the irish and the vast other amounts of immigrants you looked down upon as a whole. I know, I watched Rudy!
"OK.. sorry for summarising.. but quantum computers can crack conventional encryption in a single cycle. They make it trivial to factor things down to prime numbers, no matter how large. And since this is the basis of most current cryptography, they will obsolete our current cryptography."
This is bullshit. First off, you have to assume that
a) non-trivial Quantum computers can be constructed at all [who says there are not limits?]
b) The time per solution is not greater than a brute force attack.
I mean sure a single cycle AES cracker would be cool. But if the machine took 2^100 years to build who gives a shit?
This type of hype always pisses me off.
To boot as I understand it, QC only "attacks" in sqrt time by meet-in-the-middle approaches. So AES-256 would provide all the security ya need.
The real way to get code in that is bad is to get it in the front door. I can't just goto BK and start adding code to the kernel [without breaking BK]. Otherwise every troll and their wife sister would just delete random files to bother the team.
So provided you can put "user = root" in the kernel via the front door with nobody noticing that's how you hack the kernel.
No seriously. Treatment like that does deserve mention. Maybe someone should make a site [if it doesn't exist already] where people can express positive stories like that?
All too often [specially with small no-name shops in Ottawa] you can get screwed by stores not fulfilling their own Warranties [OEM Express for one]. It's nice to hear that from time to time a company will own up to a problem and fix it for the customer [note I didn't say consumer!]
I don't think you understand how it works. You don't just "put code in the kernel". You submit a patch [in the case of GNUPG they just ignore you...] and in theory they review the patch before applying it to the CVS.
So no "commie ruskie spy" can just drop in code into the linux kernel....
Um... this is/. outright weird arguments are permitted here. Usenet [at least the groups I talk in] are for serious discussion only so things like idiot yuppies wouldn't come up.
I would simply because cheaper more effective coat material exists. Which may mean nothing to you, but when you live in a country that knows that -40C is you want a warm coat...If you really want to live like a deer then take the fat insulation and wear that instead;-)
As for my whole point. It's not so much as the act as the people. E.g. "it's ok to wear fake fur because it's not real" but they don't realize that it still symbolizes skinning animals to wear their fur. I hate people who can't see past their nose to realize help stupid they are.
In short I hate people devoid of critical thinking.
Um, first off I'm all for burning the bible [and all other religious books] for a different reason.
As for books which include symbolism for rape, murder, etc... they should be too. And to some extent they are frowned upon. Don't believe me? Get a Snuff magazine and read it on the bus to work... see how many odd looks you get.
Note that discussing and symbolism are different things. A book about why you should kill all Jews is [in my mind] worse than a book in which a Jew happens to die. Not that I'm saying violence is good in any fashion [specially for the purposes of profit].
That's hardly the same thing. You can take a picture of wildlife with only mildly disturbing it. You don't have to slaughter the Lion to get it to pose [and if you did then ya I'd have a problem with it].
So again, I say, mighty fine trolling. You're taking a well constructed argument and pulling it out of context with irrelevant hyperbole.
Now I'm not some PETA zealot. I eat meat but that's because that's the way things are. I don't go around killing other animals just for social status... if it's cold out I wear my parka [military issue I got at a surplus store 6 years ago] which is warmer than fur anyways...
Po' dumb as shit niggers and white trash getting the shit kicked out of them by over zealous police. Sure people may think "oh this is generally uncut and all true" until they realize a cop shift is 8-12 hours [depending on locale] and a Cops episode is all of what? 30 mins?
It's funny they never show you people the cops stop and then don't arrest... hmmm...
People want to see suffering and police chases and things that go boom. But mostly it's seeing "darky" on TV getting arrested. Hence the "strange black man" defense that pretty much drives all idiot yuppy crimes.
ECC-109 was not brute forced. They used a cycle finding algorithm to find a collision [blah blah read site].
The real "contribution" of this attack is that these cycle finding attacks are not just theoretical.
Against RC5/DES brute force was used and shown to be effective for small key lengths. Against ECC a new attack was used [and a newer attack will be required to really continue]. Similarly for RSA they wanted to show factoring was possible [e.g. QS, GNFS, etc...]
There is a point where continuing to work is pointless. E.g. RC5-72 is useless. people have learned and use 128-bit symmetric keys now as a "lower boundary". So even if they do break RC5-72 [which is likely to take a shitload of time] we'd already be ahead of the curve.
In the case of ECC-109 [over GF(p)], 163-bit [over GF(2)]] ECC curves are still "recommended" by NIST document.
A 163-bit key provides roughly 80-bits of security which is enough to not be insecure against most modest attacks but I doubt many cryptographers would recommend it with a straight face [personally I draw the line at 256-bit curves].
Point is showing all these theoretical attacks working is important cuz not one attack fits all.
Yeah, cuz it's ok to watch people blowing up if it's a movie... it's make belief...
You're prolly the same type of person who thinks wearing "faux fur" is ok because it's not real fur and therefor not really symbolic of skinning an animal and wearing it's fur...
Slashdot Mirror
I really don't want to know how they get the caramel in the caramilk bar though.... that would ruin the awe and mystery...
Tom
This also known as the "shitter theorem" and occasionally "quiznos toasted does taste better theorem". ;-)
Tom
So you're saying the average local co-los are the size of google? Hmmm....
"I get 10GB (email+web hosting) for $10/month."
;-)
Is that guaranteed.... like say early cable modem providers "guaranteed"?
I'm sure if all of their customers actually used 10GB they wouldn't think it's so cheap. Say they use 200GB disks [309$ CDN locally...] they would have to have 19 customers for 2 months to pay it off.
Doesn't sound like much, but what if they need say 10 drives to accomodate their customers? Chances are that's at least two computers [I dunno how that translates into U/2U] which means more money, etc... I found a 1U co-locate for 150$/mo. Assuming two 2U spots costs say 500$ you need at least 50 customers each month to turn bank (they will also consume 3 200GB disks...). Presumably you will want to give them say 10GB traffic too. Well that's another 5$ per user or 250$...
So right now you're upto ~750$ per month. But you're only making 500$ a month... so you cheap on the disks cuz they won't fill it up. And you cheap on the bandwidth budget cuz they won't fill it up....
Then when they do you accidentally exercise the "I'm bigger than you clause" where you say "unlimited meant reasonably unlimited and reasonably means you are owned."
Tom
Oh this stupid superiority is showing again. Oh po little yankees... can't strangle the world for all the jobs, resources, talent, etc...
Cuz yeah, you invented the web and slang too!
Smart.
To address your first paragraph.... Why do you assume there is no limit? Maybe circuit building is a O(n^10) process?
To address your second paragraph.... "time per solution" meant the time it takes to make the actual device. If it takes 2^100 years to design an AES cracker I don't care.
Overall... I never said QC is impossible. I just hate how people spin [forgive the pun] things to no logical ends.... OMG they can factor the number 15. That means the technology works. Doesn't mean it will scale. Factoring 15 and a 1000-bit composite are not the same order of magnitude.
Similarly AES is not a trivial algorithm. Designing a QC for AES may prove to be intractable. Which means all the QC hype in the world won't break AES.
Who knows. Keep an open mind and don't make stupid conclusions like "crypto is dead" or "your mother is a whore".
Tom
I mean companies like Motorolla and AMD are not entirely US based anyways? AMD has a fab in Germany. Does that count as "outsourcing? They make the parts in Malaysia [for basically ever...] is that "outsourcing"?
Who says a company must solely have business in US?
Fuck you americans You suck.
The way I look at Govt. is that it's supposed to maintain the status quo. That means kids goto school, sick goto doctors and people drive on highways [without holes the size of beachballs], etc, etc, etc.
So I'd say the govt should promote job growth [e.g. lowering taxes or giving grants or simply being ameniable to business] while not compromising the status quo.
Tom
Who the fuck says Americans are fucking entitled to the jobs in the first place? You're telling me a person from India, China, Korean [fuck even Canada] is not entitled to work in the software industry?
Who the fuck built your buildings, roads and railways anyways? Sure as heck were uppity white-collars from England. It was the chinese, the irish and the vast other amounts of immigrants you looked down upon as a whole. I know, I watched Rudy!
Tom
"OK.. sorry for summarising.. but quantum computers can crack conventional encryption in a single cycle. They make it trivial to factor things down to prime numbers, no matter how large. And since this is the basis of most current cryptography, they will obsolete our current cryptography."
This is bullshit. First off, you have to assume that
a) non-trivial Quantum computers can be constructed at all [who says there are not limits?]
b) The time per solution is not greater than a brute force attack.
I mean sure a single cycle AES cracker would be cool. But if the machine took 2^100 years to build who gives a shit?
This type of hype always pisses me off.
To boot as I understand it, QC only "attacks" in sqrt time by meet-in-the-middle approaches. So AES-256 would provide all the security ya need.
Tom
Um, and that was detected....
The real way to get code in that is bad is to get it in the front door. I can't just goto BK and start adding code to the kernel [without breaking BK]. Otherwise every troll and their wife sister would just delete random files to bother the team.
So provided you can put "user = root" in the kernel via the front door with nobody noticing that's how you hack the kernel.
Tom
Clap, clap, clap.
No seriously. Treatment like that does deserve mention. Maybe someone should make a site [if it doesn't exist already] where people can express positive stories like that?
All too often [specially with small no-name shops in Ottawa] you can get screwed by stores not fulfilling their own Warranties [OEM Express for one]. It's nice to hear that from time to time a company will own up to a problem and fix it for the customer [note I didn't say consumer!]
Tom
I don't think you understand how it works. You don't just "put code in the kernel". You submit a patch [in the case of GNUPG they just ignore you...] and in theory they review the patch before applying it to the CVS.
So no "commie ruskie spy" can just drop in code into the linux kernel....
Tom
Nazi! There you're right....
/. outright weird arguments are permitted here. Usenet [at least the groups I talk in] are for serious discussion only so things like idiot yuppies wouldn't come up.
Um... this is
Tom
I would simply because cheaper more effective coat material exists. Which may mean nothing to you, but when you live in a country that knows that -40C is you want a warm coat...If you really want to live like a deer then take the fat insulation and wear that instead ;-)
As for my whole point. It's not so much as the act as the people. E.g. "it's ok to wear fake fur because it's not real" but they don't realize that it still symbolizes skinning animals to wear their fur. I hate people who can't see past their nose to realize help stupid they are.
In short I hate people devoid of critical thinking.
Um, first off I'm all for burning the bible [and all other religious books] for a different reason.
As for books which include symbolism for rape, murder, etc... they should be too. And to some extent they are frowned upon. Don't believe me? Get a Snuff magazine and read it on the bus to work... see how many odd looks you get.
Note that discussing and symbolism are different things. A book about why you should kill all Jews is [in my mind] worse than a book in which a Jew happens to die. Not that I'm saying violence is good in any fashion [specially for the purposes of profit].
Tom
That's hardly the same thing. You can take a picture of wildlife with only mildly disturbing it. You don't have to slaughter the Lion to get it to pose [and if you did then ya I'd have a problem with it].
So again, I say, mighty fine trolling. You're taking a well constructed argument and pulling it out of context with irrelevant hyperbole.
Now I'm not some PETA zealot. I eat meat but that's because that's the way things are. I don't go around killing other animals just for social status... if it's cold out I wear my parka [military issue I got at a surplus store 6 years ago] which is warmer than fur anyways...
Tom
The "logic" was that people tolerate evil things as long as you dress it up.
Violence on TV? It's ok if it's real or in Iraq.
Abuse of animals and others? It's ok if it's "simulated" or the victim was ugly [hence the reason why americans don't typically eat Cats...].
etc, etc, etc.
No no no.
Cops is funny for one reason.
Po' dumb as shit niggers and white trash getting the shit kicked out of them by over zealous police. Sure people may think "oh this is generally uncut and all true" until they realize a cop shift is 8-12 hours [depending on locale] and a Cops episode is all of what? 30 mins?
It's funny they never show you people the cops stop and then don't arrest... hmmm...
People want to see suffering and police chases and things that go boom. But mostly it's seeing "darky" on TV getting arrested. Hence the "strange black man" defense that pretty much drives all idiot yuppy crimes.
Tom
"Faux fur is a celebration of the beauty of animals"
That's is some mighty fine trolling. What better way to celebrate the beauty of animals by simulating WEARING THEIR SKIN!
That's right up there with honouring the Jews by wearing S.S. uniforms...
Overall I gotta admit you do a wonderful job at trolling. Grade A' troll indeed!
Um to some extent. But recall that the attacks on ECC, symmetric ciphers like DES and RC5 and RSA are all unique.
Against ECC was the pollard-rho cycle finding algorithm. DES/RC5 was brute force and RSA has been a combo of QS and GNFS.
Tom
ECC-109 was not brute forced. They used a cycle finding algorithm to find a collision [blah blah read site].
The real "contribution" of this attack is that these cycle finding attacks are not just theoretical.
Against RC5/DES brute force was used and shown to be effective for small key lengths. Against ECC a new attack was used [and a newer attack will be required to really continue]. Similarly for RSA they wanted to show factoring was possible [e.g. QS, GNFS, etc...]
There is a point where continuing to work is pointless. E.g. RC5-72 is useless. people have learned and use 128-bit symmetric keys now as a "lower boundary". So even if they do break RC5-72 [which is likely to take a shitload of time] we'd already be ahead of the curve.
In the case of ECC-109 [over GF(p)], 163-bit [over GF(2)]] ECC curves are still "recommended" by NIST document.
A 163-bit key provides roughly 80-bits of security which is enough to not be insecure against most modest attacks but I doubt many cryptographers would recommend it with a straight face [personally I draw the line at 256-bit curves].
Point is showing all these theoretical attacks working is important cuz not one attack fits all.
Like the RC5 challenges [and DES before it] just to say "yes, yes you can do this".
;-)
So when someone says "64-bits of security ought to be enough" you can say "no, no it isn't."
Though yeah, if they do more challenges it's just getting futile.
Tom
Yeah, cuz it's ok to watch people blowing up if it's a movie ... it's make belief...
You're prolly the same type of person who thinks wearing "faux fur" is ok because it's not real fur and therefor not really symbolic of skinning an animal and wearing it's fur...
Tom
dear god post a bitorrent link!!!