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Those Eureka Moments

Phoe6 writes "If you're one of those insufferable people who can finish the Saturday New York Times crossword puzzle, you probably have a gift for insight. The puzzles always have an underlying hint to solving them, but on Saturdays that clue is insanely obtuse. If you had all day, you could try a zillion different combinations and eventually figure it out. But with insight, you'd experience the usual clueless confusion, until--voilà--the fog clears and you get the clue, which suddenly seems obvious. The sudden flash of insight that precedes such "Aha!" moments is characteristic of many types of cognitive processes besides problem-solving, including memory retrieval, language comprehension, and various forms of creativity. Although different problem-solving strategies share many common attributes, insight-derived solutions appear to be unique in several ways. PLoS Biology explains the Neural Basis of Solving Problems with Insight. The Complete Research Article is here."

209 comments

  1. JUMBLE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I used to have trouble with the JUMBLE puzzles, but then I went to jumble.org and I got major EUREKA moments...

    1. Re:JUMBLE by brothertupelo · · Score: 1

      they mentioned that words appearing to the left were more easily solved. i guess that's why i always look slightly to the right of jumble words when i get them.

  2. Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

    Goddamn, there a lot of long words in that post, I didn't have my eureka moment for understanding what he was on about yet, but when I do, I'll post about it.

    --
    This is the sig that says NI (again)
    1. Re:Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      Eureka

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    2. Re:Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Hey, that used to be a password of mine!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
  3. Eureka is overrated by Plutor · · Score: 5, Informative

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'"
    -Isaac Asimov.

    1. Re:Eureka is overrated by arvindn · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I think you're confusing science and problem solving. I experienced this confusion first hand. In high school, I was really good at problem solving, particlarly math. I was addicted to the "Aha!" feeling. I even went to the IMO, and thought I had it made for a career in math.

      In college, I discovered that math was in reality very different from what I'd expected. The Aha! was simply not there. It was a different beast altogether. Everything went in several incremental steps rather than one flash of insight. It required vertical rather than lateral thinking. Fortunately math wasn't my major, and I eventually dropped out.

      Back to what you said, its perfectly true of science, but this article is about problem solving. Eureka doesn't herald new discoveries, but it sure makes the world go round, helping people find non-obvious solutions to tricky little everyday problems.

    2. Re:Eureka is overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's a sad story... too bad you couldn't get it together to stick with it long enough. subjects like number theory, and "college" algebra with groups and rings.... there are plenty of "aha" moments in higher level math, but it is a lot more difficult, that's for sure.

    3. Re:Eureka is overrated by indigeek · · Score: 5, Funny

      But would you run naked around the town shouting "Thats funny" ?

    4. Re:Eureka is overrated by fbform · · Score: 2, Funny


      The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' (I've found it!), but 'That's funny...'

      True story:

      A professor narrates the Archimedes-bathtub incident to a class of freshman engineers. Concludes with "Eureka! Eureka!" and after a pause, asks his class if anyone knows what it means.

      Guy in the back row yells out "I'm naked! I'm naked!".

      --
      Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
    5. Re:Eureka is overrated by BlueShad0w · · Score: 1

      You'd be surprised how many discoveries came with the words "No! Don't do th.. ah."

    6. Re:Eureka is overrated by Serious+Simon · · Score: 1
      'Eureka!' (I've found it!)

      Actually, Eureka means "OMG!!! That bathwater is HOT!!!"

    7. Re:Eureka is overrated by krgallagher · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "I was addicted to the "Aha!" feeling."

      From the original article: "Illustrating the strong emotional response elicited by such a sudden insight, Archimedes is said to have run home from the baths in euphoric glee..."

      I think this is one of the places our education system is missing a bet. I have never met a person who does not get that rush of joy from solving a problem. If our education process stressed problem solving instead of rote memorization, we would have a population addicted to learning.

      --

      Insert Generic Sig Here:

    8. Re:Eureka is overrated by Old+Wolf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      IMO: good on you, I went too :) (Mumbai, 1996)

      With college math, I had the same disenchantment as you. There are some courses that are more insight-y (eg. analysis) and less so (eg. partial differential equations). But this is not a reason to lose heart. You cannot apply insight if you have not first fully grokked the available tools. Part of training for IMO geometry problems is learning dozens of theorems and tidbits of information (eg. incircle, circumcircle, triangle equalities, sin & cos formulae, sin 2A, similar triangles, that one about the fractions of each edge multiplying to -1, and so on). Then to solve the problem you try things until you strike an 'aha' that resolves the problem into these simple units you have already learned.
      The thing with college math is that it is a whole new bunch of "simple units" to learn. Once you have done grind work to grok eigenvectors and orthogonal basis vectors, for example, then you can suddenly "aha-solve" a whole new class of problems (eg. unitary evolution in quantum physics) by slapping such a basis on them.

    9. Re:Eureka is overrated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funniest. Post. Ever.
      MOD PARENT UP :)))

  4. like Star Trek. by Hangin10 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This seems to be very much what Q was talking
    about in the very last episode "All Good Things...". When we learn something, we open ourselves up for more.

    Someday hopefully we will learn everything. :)

    1. Re:like Star Trek. by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      I really don't want to know how they get the caramel in the caramilk bar though.... that would ruin the awe and mystery...

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    2. Re:like Star Trek. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, for other people who do want to know...a little gingerbread man is paid to have his way with the caramik bar, which ends in an injection of creamy caramel

    3. Re:like Star Trek. by jafuser · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Someday hopefully we will learn everything.
      Honestly though, wouldn't that be boring?

      --
      Please consider making an automatic monthly recurring donation to the EFF
    4. Re:like Star Trek. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm... mold caramel on a cold waffle grid, then run the now very solid caramel waffle through the chocolate streams? Or, perhaps vice-versa.

      Very cold waffle grid (so they get the Cadbury's or Lindt's script molded on each "square"), chocolate is added and pressed in. Chocolate is still kept cold, then warm enough caramel is dropped into each cell, where it is warm enough to level itself out in the cells before it gets too cold to flow, then the layer of chocolate is streamed over it to "seal" the caramel in?

      The process has got to be related to how chocolate liquers and truffles are made...

      Now, who would guess that most jelly candies start out in impressions pressed into trays filled with corn starch?

  5. Insight, no.... Programming Yes by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 0

    I wrote a program that solves crossword puzzels because I was sick of losing to my younger brother. It helped but Saterdays have the obscure answers that weren't in my dictionary. Stupid New York.

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
    1. Re:Insight, no.... Programming Yes by mary_will_grow · · Score: 4, Funny

      So 'saterdays' are tough? I can't imagine why you'd have a problem with crossword puzzles. :-D

      --
      Why stick up for big business?
    2. Re:Insight, no.... Programming Yes by awol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I found cryptic crosswords (a corollary to the NYT Saturday Xword) an excellent life lesson. Until I started doing them, I had always found that working away at a problem would eventually lead to a solution, Eureka moment or not. However with cryptics, particularly as I was learning them (or a new compiler) I found that some clues just I could not grok and learning to give up was a wonderful lesson.

      I firmly believe that insight is one of the more wonderful gifts that one can have and something that makes human beings extremely powerful. for example apocryphal or not, the falling apple that lead to gravity or the tram travelling away from the clock on the station building for time dilation are two examples of moments that depend on extraordinary insight.

      I think that insight represents our ability to see abstract patterns in things and recognise those patterns in many forms. One of my favourite examples is the proof that a complex number (rcis[theta])^n can be expressed as r^ncisn[theta] in cis notation the proof is complex and nasty but just the simple insight that it can be expressed as (re^i[theta])^n makes the proof trivial. Recognise the pattern and proceed with the discovery.

      --
      "The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
    3. Re:Insight, no.... Programming Yes by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well saterdays was the only way he could get a 9 letter word to interect with "JELLOES", a 7 letter dessert advertised by Bill Cosby in the 1980's.

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    4. Re:Insight, no.... Programming Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean "puzzels".
      Cuz, like, y'know, thatz how it soundz win I say it.

    5. Re:Insight, no.... Programming Yes by WebGangsta · · Score: 2, Informative
      You could always work your way up the NYTimes Crossword Puzzle chain. The Monday puzzle is supposed to be the easiest of the week, and the Saturday's is the most difficult. I think the Sunday one falls slightly below the Saturday one in overall difficulty, but it makes up for toughness in size (memory fails on specifics right now).

      While I know some of the folks who create the NYTimes Crosswords (and other published puzzles) and have spoken with Will Shortz on occasion, I do know that there are plenty of crossword fans that abhore the NYTimes puzzles of late. They would prefer puzzles that don't have the 'cutsie/theme' clues and simply rely on good old-fashioned "words on a grid" that don't require knowledge of jokes/puns/pop culture in order to guess the answer.

      Those of you who are really into puzzles and games may want to join the National Puzzlers League. While they do know the answer to the ubiquitious "what words end in -ngy other than HUNGRY and ANGRY?" question, they also pride themselves on being among the first to play many of the latest/newest board games as well.

    6. Re:Insight, no.... Programming Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this same thing which kind of got John Nash in trouble, he started "seeing" too many patterns in the numbers he was working with?

      What about all those knobs who think that there is a "code" in the Bible (funny, how most of these ultimately depend on the layout of the printing of the text...)?

      Humans have a distinct itch to try and find meaning in just about everything, and draw connections between two very separate and unrelated incidents. "Step on a crack/break your mother's back".

      It certainly does manifest itself in various problems (phantom limbs [brain is trying to fill in the missing sensory input from the disconnected limb], Obsessive-Compulsive disorder, etc).

  6. getting the clues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    aren't there lots of clues in solving a crossword puzzle? :)

  7. Taking a break by justinmc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find the best thing to do is walk away from the problem for a while - could be for a cup of coffee or you could sleep on it etc. Either you look at the problem again and you just see the answer, or you are brushing your teeth and you suddenly have the answer in your head! Don't ask me why.. IANABS (I Am Not A Brain Scientist!!)

    1. Re:Taking a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I find the best thing to do is spend a few minutes on Slashdot whenever I'm stuck with something. It reminds me that there are people out there even stupider than myself, and that gives me hope to press on.

    2. Re:Taking a break by tomstdenis · · Score: 0, Funny

      This also known as the "shitter theorem" and occasionally "quiznos toasted does taste better theorem". ;-)

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    3. Re:Taking a break by Tooky · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With code I always find that if I try to show a colleague a problem, I almost always solve it, often while I'm showing them and before they've even had chance to think about it. I guess this works in the same way as taking a break, because it allows you to think about it in a different way. When you demonstrate the bug to someone else, your concious mind isn't focusing on the problem and that moment of insight seems to happen.

    4. Re:Taking a break by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1

      My problem is that I usually try to show a colleague what I thought was a finished solution, only to discover a fundimental problem. Think Sisyphis.

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    5. Re:Taking a break by broller · · Score: 3, Funny

      Have you ever tried to do this step without the help of another person? I often wonder if the walking through the explaination is what helps, and if just pretending someone is there would work just as well.

      If it doesn't work, then the people who come over to see why you are talking to yourself may be able to help. :)

    6. Re:Taking a break by mdfst13 · · Score: 1

      My theory is similar. I think that taking the time to reframe the basics of the problem (which you need to do to explain it to someone else) is what does it. All of a sudden, you are reexamining the beginning, when previously you had been concentrating on the end of your thinking.

      There is an AI (Artificial Intelligence) issue that is similar. There are some kinds of algorithms that search for the correct answer by picking a point, checking it, and then jumping to a different point. They can get stuck at sub peaks where they are at the highest local point (any close point is worse than the one where they are), but the highest *overall* point is somewhere totally different. Sometimes, they need to jump far away (essentially restarting from the beginning) to see if they end up at the same place.

      I also think that explaining things to someone else causes you to reexamine your assumptions. This can be good if you made an assumption early (before you really understood the problem) that doesn't hold up over time. Without having to explain it, you might never reexamine that assumption and recognize that it is incorrect.

    7. Re:Taking a break by Fortress · · Score: 1

      I have the same experience all the time. I think of it as dropping a request in the chute, then moving on to something else while my subconscious chugs away in the background. Eventually the answer drops into your conscious mind without warning.

      This technique is also useful if you are trying to recall something that you already know. If you have that annoying tip-of-the-tongue thing happening, switch problems and wait for your subconscious to retreive it.

      Oh the joy of parallel processing.

    8. Re:Taking a break by Tooky · · Score: 1

      Have you ever tried to do this step without the help of another person?

      No I haven't, but I'm pretty sure that unless I'm actually having to explain to someone else I'll take mental shortcuts, which would mean that I don't get the insight.

      Although that does remind of someone I used to work with, who suggested that every programmer should work with a lifesize cardboard cut-out of the technical consultant behind them.

    9. Re: Taking a break by gidds · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I find I can do it my email. Lots of times, I'll be half-way through writing an email explaining some problem, and then find I have to rewrite parts as I come to understand them better. Often I don't need to send the email at all, as by the time I've finished it, I've solved the problem!

      Of course, it does help to have someone to send email to. Right now I'm working on a piece of software with one other author; we tend to code separately, but do most of our design by email -- this not only forces us to get things clear in our heads, but the input from someone else can remind you of factors you'd forgotten, or lead you to simpler and/or more elegant solutions.

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    10. Re:Taking a break by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I seem to remember reading about a programmer who had a little toy duck sitting on his monitor, and whenever he got stuck, he would explain the code to the duck, and he would suddenly "get it"...

      If I only I had a duck, then I wouldn't have to endure my house-mate jeering at me when he finds a stupid mistake in 2 minutes when I've been stuck for hours...

      I wonder if it would work with a sock-puppet...

    11. Re: Taking a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally do this, too.

    12. Re: Taking a break by Tooky · · Score: 1

      I'm actually in a similar situation right now, and found that expaining myself through email really useful. Unfortunately the guy I'm working with never seems to reply to my emails, he always calls to answer my questions, and explain things he's done. Its actually pretty frustrating, because my notes of a phone call can never cover everything that's been said.

    13. Re:Taking a break by elecuanime · · Score: 1

      According to the article, the right hemisphere is activated during problem solving. The implication is that if I close my right eye (the left eye transmits to the right hemisphere) my problems will be solved faster. Are any of you trying this out right now?

    14. Re:Taking a break by EphemeralPhart · · Score: 1

      Dude, that's "more stupid", not stupider, sjeesh

    15. Re:Taking a break by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      For those that don't understand what I meant....

      The "shitter theorem" is attributed to when you get up, walk to the washroom and take a nice long break to think about the world.

      The "quiznos theorem" is when you get up, goto quiznos and while eating perhaps the bestest sub ever you figure something out.

      I've personally used the latter on several occasions.

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    16. Re: Taking a break by gidds · · Score: 1

      That's an easy one to solve: make him slow down or wait while you take notes. Don't let him get ahead of you. Either you'll end up with good discussion and good notes, or he'll get fed up and switch to emails!

      --

      Ceterum censeo subscriptionem esse delendam.

    17. Re:Taking a break by wombatmobile · · Score: 1

      While you are taking a break from conscious awareness of the problem, processing continues in localized regions of neurons. This is possible when you have already parsed the problem into distinct components, for example, when the crossword clue is:

      Long serving English Monarch, 19th century

      _ _ C _ _ R _ A

      you mentally establish two threads. The first thread searches your database of English monarchs, isolating values that conform with "long serving 19th Century". Each one of these results (a noun) is then passed to the second thread that checks for conformance with the spelling mask.

      The "Eureka moment" is simply when you find a match in the second thread using an output from the first thread. The result is brought into consciousness.

      Is it weird that all that preliminary processing can go on in background? No! Just take the first thread in isolation - the database search for English monarch names. Even when you "consciously" search your database for names of English monarchs, only part of your processing is apparent to you (conscious) and that is the end bit - the result. The actual database traversal takes place sub-consciously.

    18. Re:Taking a break by spagthorpe · · Score: 1

      I remember reading somewhere about some guy that kept a rubber duck in his desk drawer. When he would get stuck on a problem, he would pull out the duck and try to explain the problem he was having. Usually going through it helped solve the problem.

      I've thought about it, but my co-workers already think I'm borderline insane.

      --

      WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
      (Smash amp, burn guitar, take home the groupies)

    19. Re:Taking a break by strike2867 · · Score: 1

      Please stop talking to me. Your problems are stupid.

      --

      Vote for new mod!!! Score:-2,Imbecile
    20. Re:Taking a break by jhoffoss · · Score: 1

      run for the border! get the duck! You have nothing to worry about, unless the duck starts explaining the solution to you.

      --
      Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
    21. Re:Taking a break by ectoraige · · Score: 1

      That's how I tend to debug code too.
      I think it happens if you have a problem halfway through a piece of code, but you only 'back-think' a few steps. When you start to explain it to a colleague, your brain is forced to go back to step one. There's been a number of times I've gone over to a colleague and just said, "Hi, uh, oh, never mind, thanks", and then walked away again.

      --
      Vs lbh pna ernq guvf, ybt bss abj. Tb bhgfvqr. Syl n xvgr.
    22. Re:Taking a break by Pyrrus · · Score: 1

      absolutely. First take a break and don't focus on it,
      the answer might come to you. I think this has to do with
      your brain operating differently. When you are focusing on
      a problem your brain mostly emits beta-waves, when you are
      "relaxed" your brain emits alpha-waves. I don't know the
      exact significance, but this probably explains why I sometimes
      come up with the answer when not focusing on the problem
      (getting a drink, talking to someone, sleeping, etc).

      The other thing I do is clean up and comment my code before
      I get help from someone else, usually in the process, I stumble
      on the answer while trying to make the code presentable.
      Often I will do this with no intention of actually asking for
      help.

      If that fails, I either show it to someone else, or in cases
      where I can't (ie, projects that we aren't allowed to collaborate
      on), I just have to repeat the first two steps, and/or bang
      my head into a wall.

      I'm not so sure if that last one actually helps though

    23. Re:Taking a break by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      its 'sheesh' and its 'stupider', Sheesh!

    24. Re:Taking a break by sharkdba · · Score: 1

      ...a programmer who had a little toy duck sitting on his monitor...

      I have a giant M&M sitting on my desk. Whenever I try to explain a problem to him (her???), he gives me this "look", as if saying: "if you think that you can solve your problem by talking to an M&M, then you have bigger problems than the problem you're trying to solve". Works every time. Knowledge that I have bigger problems makes the one I'm working on seem easy.

      --
      The purpose of life is to find the purpose of life.
    25. Re:Taking a break by ACPosterChild · · Score: 1

      I took a class on Real-Time development, and the guy giving the class said that they have an intelligent teddy bear sitting on a desk at his company. Before you are allowed to interrupt somebody else to figure out a problem, you have to explain the problem to the teddy bear. If the teddy bear doesn't help you find a solution, THEN you can bug somebody else.

  8. For nerds, this is not news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    When coding and gaming frenzy kicks in, we all know that personal hygeine suffers. The "You Reek!" moments happen at times like these.

    1. Re:For nerds, this is not news. by Raven42rac · · Score: 1

      Or should that read "You reek, ugh!"?

      --
      I hate sigs.
    2. Re:For nerds, this is not news. by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1

      Well, until the wife decides to start vacuuming the dessicated cheese puffs off the floor around you. At which is "Oreck-a".

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    3. Re:For nerds, this is not news. by Ztras · · Score: 1

      And I was going with the Canadian inventor's colleague, "You reek, eh?"

  9. Superior attitude by Andreas(R) · · Score: 1, Insightful

    you probably have a gift for insight. ... if you had all day, you could try a zillion different combinations and eventually figure it out. But with insight, you'd experience the usual clueless confusion, until--voilà--the fog clears and you get the clue, which suddenly seems obvious.

    I'm sick of people thinking that they are so fscking "special". I don't necessarily accept the idea that someone has a very special way to solve very complex problems - the principles of the way we think is universal for all people.

    1. Re:Superior attitude by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      And all our brains are wired in exactly the same pattern of neurons so we all experience thinking in exactly the same way. We are Borg, you will be assimilated.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    2. Re:Superior attitude by troon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I disagree. Look at how some people find picking up new languages (I'm not talking computer languages, although the same principles probably apply) really easy, and other people of similar apparent intelligence seem to have a complete inability do this.

      It must be down to differences in thinking. During my bike ride across France, I found that after only a couple of days of "immersion", I was thinking and dreaming in French, despite having a relatively limited knowledge of the language. I'm not claiming to be elitist (should that be 31337157 round these parts?), but I'm sure that some people clearly have a particular gifting for languages.

      --
      Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
    3. Re:Superior attitude by FlippyBoy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, thought processes are quite different among people. Growing up in different cultures, and speaking different languages can bring about very distinct ways of thinking about things. Even among similar people, family environments shape the way we process information. Even within one family, if one child is raised on puzzles and interactive games with strategies, s/he will most likely grow up with a vastly different thought proces than one brought up on television. There's still so much about the brain we don't understand, it's impossible to say we all think alike.

    4. Re:Superior attitude by notbob · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You sir are a lost one...

      Is public education really working that well?

      Our brains are not wired alike... different reasoning / thought patterns. Go see some 2nd graders solve the same math problem... they won't all be the same if they have some level of intelligence. The clueless at your level may solve it the way they were handed only.

    5. Re:Superior attitude by Viceice · · Score: 1

      You are right. Anybody can go and solve complex problems. But to solve complex problems consistently and accurately are a different matter entirely.

      --
      Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
    6. Re:Superior attitude by PitaBred · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are some people for whom problem solving never enters the equation. Example: Ice machine stops working, and the manager started worrying about having to schedule a repair. I take 15 minutes and find out that it's just jammed and clear it. It NEVER crossed her mind to take the cover off and see what was going on to make it stop working. People do think differently.

    7. Re:Superior attitude by jedi-monkey · · Score: 1

      You're right...the same process of one neuron firing a biochemical spark to another neuron is something that all individuals have the biological capability (and necessity?) to do.

      However, not all people have the quantity of neurons firing that those who easily find "Eureka!"'s do. In this case, it's all about quantity of neurons firing, and not the quality of the person

    8. Re:Superior attitude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      umm, bad example, she clearly wasn't thinking! :)

    9. Re:Superior attitude by sharkdba · · Score: 1

      but I'm sure that some people clearly have a particular gifting for languages.

      Certainly. I'm not sure where psychology currently stands on this issue, but my theory is: "think like a child, and you will learn". Note that children learn a lot of things faster and more effectively than adults, not only languages. Take chess f.ex. Usually children excel here much faster than an adults. I was always thinking why. There might be some anatomical differences for sure, but I don't think that explains everything. One thing I noticed kids absorb information more "directly" without trying to go through what they already know. This applies specially to learning languages, where they don't try to translate every new word into one they already know, but simply assimilate the word as it is. In chess they don't overanalyze a given situation, but rely a lot of intuition.

      I don't see a reason why adults cannot use the same principles when learning new things.

      --
      The purpose of life is to find the purpose of life.
    10. Re:Superior attitude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Learning chess and playing it well are two different things...

  10. strong emotional response by sczimme · · Score: 4, Funny


    Illustrating the strong emotional response elicited by such a sudden insight, Archimedes is said to have run home from the baths in euphoric glee--without his clothes.

    But really, haven't we all done this at one time or another?

    --
    I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
  11. Saturday puzzle by MeanMF · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The puzzles always have an underlying hint to solving them, but on Saturdays that clue is insanely obtuse.

    Saturday NYT puzzles frequently don't have themes.. That usually makes them harder.

    1. Re:Saturday puzzle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI-- the Monday through Saturday NYT puzzles progress through the week-- they get harder, and the Monday through Thursday puzzles always have a 'theme', i.e., an internal hint that is sometimes helpful, and... sometimes not. The Friday and Saturday puzzles are the hardest and they are ususally unthemed. Once in a while, Shortz publishes a tough themed puzzle on a Friday or Saturday, but it's rare.

  12. I think this is it... by Lasuuco+Tulkas · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the article: In the first experiment, thirteen people were given three words (pine, crab, sauce) and asked to think of one word that would form a compound word or phrase for each of the words (can you figure it out?). Fish? Pine-fish, Crabfish, fish sauce?

    1. Re:I think this is it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      "White" also works, I think.

      White pine.

      White crab.

      White sauce.

    2. Re:I think this is it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      white pine, white crab, white sauce

      (mmm... tasty racist food products.... [best homer voice])

    3. Re:I think this is it... by jimsum · · Score: 1

      I had the opposite of a Eureka moment when I saw that three word puzzle; I groaned when I found yet another author who thinks it is cute to pose a supposedly simple question and not give the answer.

      Thank goodness Slashdot is here to give me the answers. Although, I'll have to check back later since I am not convinced that either "fish" or "white" is the correct answer. I don't think many people have heard of Pine-fish or white crabs.

      --
      -- Pot is safer than Beer
    4. Re:I think this is it... by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1
      It's a trap! Trapper Pine, Crab Trap, Sauce Trap (the thing you use to pour the grease off the top.)

      Oh wait, this is slashdot, not Fark...

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    5. Re:I think this is it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -like?!?! Pine-like, Crab-like, Fish-like

  13. EEG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find it interesting that researchers are using the EEG to measure emotional response at an unconcious level. This is flawed in my opinion since an EEG can only measure electrical activity in the outside of the cerebral cortex (new cortex) while most emotional activity, and in particular memory management has been linked to the old cortex (and the hippocampus directly for memory storage). For those who don't know, the old cortex is covered by the cerebral cortex like a shell. The old cortex is basically a group of components that form the limbic system (includes structures like the hippocampus, the amygdala, basal ganglia, etc.) that connects to the diminutive midbrain through the thalamus and hypothalamus. For this reason the EEG which measures only surface electrical activity of the cerebral cortex can't determine the activity in the old cortex. One of the reasons that lie detectors tests work so well is that the cerebral cortex can override lesser functions (concious decisions, not unconcious ones) and the old cortex (with the thalamus in particular) controls the parasympathetic and sympathetic branches of the autonomic nervous system. If there is an emotional stimuli, this system responds unless overridden, and one of the effects is opening or closing of sweat glands. Doing so changes skin electrical resistance for the galvonic skin response part of the polygraph. Wouldn't this be a better test?

    1. Re:EEG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      By combining the EEG technique with functional MRI they can image the entire brain. Functional MRI (fMRI) will allow you to see the entire brain at once, but at a much lower spatial-temporal resolution compared to EEG. Using both techniques is a decent solution to the problem, but since neither technique is completely understood (including some of the issues you pointed out) it still leaves us with only a partial understanding...

    2. Re:EEG? by sv0f · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. She knows of which she speaks.

    3. Re:EEG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      If there question was "what cortical areas are activated during such episodes" would ERPs be sufficient? From my reading of third party summaries it appears that they are interested in the the phenomenological experience of problem solving. -- Could be wrong as I have not read the original and am not terribly interested (as is the case for most imaging studies).

    4. Re:EEG? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not use MEG, that should have millimetre sized resolution.

      And yes, mod parents up.

    5. Re:EEG? by Boofy · · Score: 2, Informative

      MEG, like EEG, does have fairly fine temporal resolution, and using many electrodes and fancy signal processing, you can often get good spatial resolution as well (mm resolution). MEG does have better spatial resolution than EEG because the skull/scalp actually distorts/spreads the E fields. However, MEG also has the same problems as EEG -- the signals are mainly derived from cortical areas. Because you are measuring magentic fields, you must measure orthogonal to the direction of current -- therefore MEG only measures current that is parallel to the skull surface. The human brain is heavily folded (each fold being a sulcus), and much of the important areas lay within these sulci. Also, I believe MEG is a fairly expensive technique, and doesn't have the dual-use of functional MRI, so they are more difficult to find.

  14. Excellent book with examples by Don'tTreadOnMe · · Score: 5, Informative
    "Aha! Insight"

    Sorry for the Amazon link, but it was easy to find there. Strangely, going through this book, especially if you don't resort to the hintws and answers in the back, helps develop just the sort of insight mentioned.

    As always, your mileage may vary.

    1. Re:Excellent book with examples by Old+Wolf · · Score: 1

      This is such a kickass book. I can't endorse it highly enough. I believe there are actually 2 of them (a blue one and a green one, or something).

    2. Re:Excellent book with examples by sharkdba · · Score: 1

      Just out of curiosity, why are you sorry about the amazon link? I find their book database to be excellent, and since they started their new/used sales you can get really good prices. The book you mentioned f.ex. is out of print, but available as used through 3rd party sellers.

      --
      The purpose of life is to find the purpose of life.
    3. Re:Excellent book with examples by Don'tTreadOnMe · · Score: 1

      Good point - What I should have said was, "Sorry for the commercial link." I like to put out non-commercial links when possible, but yesterday I was being lazy. Work was encroaching on my social life, which it seems to be doing more and more, lately.

    4. Re:Excellent book with examples by Chacham · · Score: 1

      Actually, that is not the same. The insight he mentions is more that how an amazingly simple thing can explain something aparently complex (hence the contradiction of simple/complex, and therefore humor).

      Anyway, even though Martin Gardber is a pompous fool, that book is very good when we get past his condescendence.

  15. Difficult study by Illserve · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is an interesting idea, and I'd been keen to believe it. But there are some severe methodological issues, first that subjects are pressing a button to indicate that they've solved the problem based on their phenomological experience. As far as I can tell from reading this bit, they could be picking up any of a variety of mental processes that have nothing to do with the insight experience. Most obviously, it could merely be the intent to push the button.

    Hopefully the real experiment is more bulletproof than this fluff piece suggests.

    1. Re:Difficult study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, I haven't read the original and your argument has some merit. But, Dennett, Noe & O'Regan, and others have argued that consciousness is required for making decisions. If this button press is construed as coming from a specific decision then under those theories the person was conscious of that decision. The problems are often in interpretation.

      For example, I ask you to press a button when you see a red light. I time it and then claim that this is the time it takes to become aware of a red light. Without some alternative you were likely pressing a button when "something" happened. Therefore, I have not mad you make a "decision" about red lights and cannot claim that I have timed consciousness.

    2. Re:Difficult study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The study itself seems to have the subjects press one of three buttons - an 'A-Ha' button, a 'no-aha' button, and an 'I don't know' button. So that is controlled for (partially since they are three different buttons presumably requiring three different motor commands). What is definitely not controlled for in the complete paper is the evaluation of self that the subjects are doing -- the subjects are evaluating whether or not they had an 'A-Ha' moment. This evaluation will result in two different responses (the I don't know button wasn't used very much). It could be this evaluation and response that is leading to the difference in fMRI/EEG recordings...

      Overall, the cognitive neuroscience field in humans (which is where most of the fMRI/EEG/MEG/TMS stuff comes out of) is horribly controlled. Often experiments seem to be designed for the biggest splash and less for good science. The journals further this by pushing bad science because it has an interesting headline -- PLoS is a new journal, and wants to get into the public eye in order to establish itself. So they publish cool sounding, yet severely flawed experiments...

      Nature and Science went through a phase a couple years ago when fMRI was just new and 'we could finally see within the human brain'. It led to a huge amount of bad science being pushed through those two journals because it was the new, exciting, sexy research. Now that the honeymoon is over you see much less (and much better) fMRI work in those journals.

    3. Re:Difficult study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      That "methodolical issue" is a known problem with speeded responses (i.e. getting people to respond as fast as they can). But, in this case, with intervals of a few seconds, it really is a weak argument. The response can be influenced by factors outside of awareness. But, you would have a hard case to make that a slow and considered response isn't primarily driven by what you have made decisions on within consciousness. Also, your critique is rather vacuous without proposing an alternative.

      No, I am not one of the authors and have nothing to do with this reasearch except that I am a Cognitive Psychologist.

    4. Re:Difficult study by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would only need a statistical bias towards the subjects being correct to be able to draw meaningful conclusions, though. Obviously it's not ideal, but then what is?

    5. Re:Difficult study by big.ears · · Score: 1

      One of the authors is something like my academic half-brother. He's no slouch, and brain imaging is so common nowadays that I doubt they would fail to control for button presses. But don't be fooled into thinking they found out anything novel. Problem solving and insight research has been going on seriously for at least 50 years--one famous insight problem from the 50s (I think, it may have been earlier) is the Luchin's water jugs problem, which you may remember from the Die Hard movie with Samuel L. Jackson. People have long known that there is a fundamental difference between "insight" and normal problems, and all this did was show that you can see the difference when you look at the brain. I seriously doubt there is any respectable or half-way knowledgeable scientist who would have predicted otherwise.

    6. Re:Difficult study by Alsee · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hopefully the real experiment is more bulletproof than this fluff piece suggests.

      Perhaps the news reporting in the first link qualifies as a "fluff peice", however you could have simply followed the second link - the Complete Research Article. - to see that it was quality science and that your critisism were misplaced.

      severe methodological issues... they could be picking up any of a variety of mental processes that have nothing to do with the insight experience. Most obviously, it could merely be the intent to push the button.

      That is fully controlled for. I'll cover what they did in some detail for those not familiar with scientific methods.

      In studies like this you don't analyze the measurements themselves, you use proper controls and analyze differences between measurements. You set things up so that the only difference will be the difference you are looking for.

      If a subject does not report finding a solution within 30 seconds that trial is disarded completely. This means we only look at cases of people who have solved the problem. People who solve the problem always indicated that in an identical manner - with a button press. The fact that the problem was solved is a constant, it was always solved. The intent to press the button is a constant, there was always an intent to press teh button. Physically pressing the button is a constant, the button was always pressed. As an added bonus, it is not merely a button press", it is a double button press. One button in each hand. That avoids any left/right differences in activity.

      Those are all constants. Since we are only analyzing differences those constants entirely vanish.

      We only look at the brain data for roughly the two seconds before that button press. This time period covers the mental process of solving the problem and always pressing the button.

      Two seconds after that button press there is always the question "Answer?" and the subject always speaks the answer they found. Two seconds after that "Insight?" flashed up. Here the the subject may or may not indicate an insight experience, but this is long after the time period we are studying. Any action here has (or should have) no effect at all on the data we already recorded.

      If the subject reports a subjective "insight" experience then you take the recorded data and average it into one bucket. Cases indicated as non-insight are averaged in another bucket.

      You then subtract one average from the other average. If we haven't screwed up anywhere then the only difference we see should be differences in brain activity while the problem was being solved. We should only see increases or decreases in various brain activity related to insight/non-insight solution processes.

      The biggest problem is the fuzzy nature of people subjectivly reporting insight experiences. Different people subjectively interperting it differently can introduce random "noise" into our results. Despite any such niose, a clear and stable difference was seen. Even if different people interperted their experiences differently, there was still some sort of consistant and measurable difference.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    7. Re:Difficult study by Illserve · · Score: 1

      Thank you for this informative reply. It's very concise and useful. The study seems very well controlled.

      Sorry I didn't read the article, but I've got alot to do in a given day :)

  16. Re:Hm by cluckshot · · Score: 1

    Being someone who finds crossword puzzles hoplessly boring and one who ignores them religiously, I found the story pretty good. This actually is a important step in understanding the computational network of the brain and thus design structures for computers.

    Projects like the DARPA Grand Challenge and others of great importance to us all rely on the dream that we will come up with "Artificial Intelligence" some day. The failures in such projects arise from their failure to reverse engineer the already well proved natural process.

    Driving a vehicle for example is a proved process with known inputs and known outputs. It is reliable and we even know the failures in the process. The problem requires the understanding that all that needs to be done is to reverse engineer the natural processes involved. The study of the brain is part of this reverse engineering process. So for those Yawining out there, I hope the light just went on!

    --
    Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
  17. An interesting point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    would be whether the cognitive and neural events that lead to insight are as sudden as the subjective experience.

    1. Re:An interesting point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Somebody should study what happens in your brain just before a "D'OH!" moment.

      Probably not much is going on...

  18. On the other hand, Edison used by MisanthropicProgram · · Score: 1

    trial and error. He meticulously recorded his findings for all the different filaments used in his experimental lightbulbs until he got to tungston.
    All of his projects seemed to be directed that way.

    1. Re:On the other hand, Edison used by ThosLives · · Score: 1
      Er, sorry to burst your bubble: The first light bulb used a cotton thread (i.e., carbon), not tungsten.

      You are correct, though, in that he used trial and error.

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    2. Re:On the other hand, Edison used by Noco · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, Edison had a large lab with a large staff working on "his" various inventions. It's unfortunate that people don't give these associates their due in the creation of the light bulb, motion picture camera, etc.

      "Genius is 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration" - Edison

      It seems Edison knew that it took both hard work and the occasional Eureka moment in the invention process.

    3. Re:On the other hand, Edison used by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      If Mr. Edison had worked smarter, he wouldn't have sweat so much--Tesla. Edison had a wonderful career managing engineers rather than directly inventing things. However, the investors then just like today wanted a story so he was played up as the inventor of all the products his company patented. He was a business genious like Jobs or Gates rather than the technical brains (like Woz).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    4. Re:On the other hand, Edison used by Black+Acid · · Score: 1

      As another reply pointed out, Edison used cotton. As far as I know, the myth of tungsten originated from from a Schoolhouse Rock segment. It is wrong.

    5. Re:On the other hand, Edison used by Neward+Rylet · · Score: 1

      I think it's unfair to pigeon-hole him like that. He certainly had a large staff, he was a fairly shrewed businessman, and didn't always use the scientific method. It seems to me anytime Edison is brought up at ./ he is instatly derided for his accomplishments and how he achieved them. To say he simply managed engineers or that he was a simpleton for not always approaching things scientifically just isn't true. I agree that Edison is too often deified by some but he certainly greatly affected the entire world with all he did in a positive way, if that is not admerable I don't know what is.

  19. "you reek of" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    good one, but you should have said "you reek of" moments

  20. Author Site by bcolflesh · · Score: 2, Informative

    More interesting info on Mark Jung-Beeman's website.

  21. Re:an American with insight ? by MacFury · · Score: 0, Funny
    isnt that a oxymoron ?

    Damn...even if I had mod points I can't decide....funny or insightful...

  22. Potential vs. actual ability by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would say that the potential for insight is the same in all humans but the ability we have for insight depends on how much we practice using it. It's like a muscle -- use it and it builds; stop using it and it deteriorates.

    --
    N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
  23. it's not "that's funny" either by millahtime · · Score: 2, Funny

    I believe I get "No Shit" moments instead of that's funny.

    1. Re:it's not "that's funny" either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh oh .., take a laxative, and see a doctor.

    2. Re:it's not "that's funny" either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eureka!

  24. Re:Saturday puzzle, or "Shortz is shit" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    What you say is true. It is also true that the current editor of the NYTimes puzzle, Will Shortz, has made the Times puzzle a Eureka-free zone: his puzzles are rote, grinding, stultefying bores.

    His predecessors at the Times wrote charming, witty and fun puzzles, filled with exactly what this article is about: eureka moments, moments of insight because of the double entendres or humorous literary references, etc.

    And, Will Shortz is equally horrible on NPR. He just doesn't understand "fun": anagrams are not interesting unless there is a coincidence on the meaning side as well, and not an obvious one, but a witty one.

  25. Quantum Consciousness by johnthorensen · · Score: 1

    I wonder how this combines with the idea of a "Quantum Consciousness", as posted on /. a few years back. Hameroff's work is pretty interesting , and I've got to say pretty enticing. You can check it out HERE.

    -JT

    1. Re:Quantum Consciousness by EvilTwinSkippy · · Score: 1
      I would argue that Quantumn Mechanics better reflects the mind than the other way around. The only reason Quantumn is so disturbing is that it forces us to consider two possibilities at the same time. Our entire lives are lived making choice, that we think are logical, but once you get past the excuses and a rationalization, they turn out to be arbitrary. Or worse, someone else's arbitrary choice.

      Our brain is perfectly equipped for dealing with more than one possibility at a time. It's a massive parallel computer, and it's regularly juggling mutually exclusive tasks so we don't even notice.

      However, the concious mind can only deal with one possibilty at a time. We have elaborate computing techniques for reducing possibilities, predjudice, logic, and language. Language is perhaps the biggest driver of single possibility thinking. When we say something, it is generally to the exclusion of something else. Once we say something, we can't take it back. This massive shared delusion we call "Literature", while it allows us to share ideas, it reinforces the notion that things can only happen one way at a time.

      And generally the most literate people are the ones least likely to engage in parallel thinking. (Grumbles the frustrated science fiction writer wannabee who has a story stuck in his head, but he can't tell it all at once.)

      --
      "Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
      --Dr.W.Edwards Deming
    2. Re:Quantum Consciousness by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      However, the concious mind can only deal with one possibilty at a time.

      Not so.

      The concious mind is well-equipped to deal with multiple outcomes from unmeasured states. Ever watch someone make fun of an "uneducated" person not wanting to jinx a piece of mail?

      And generally the most literate people are the ones least likely to engage in parallel thinking. (Grumbles the frustrated science fiction writer wannabee who has a story stuck in his head, but he can't tell it all at once.)

      Make some arbitrary choices, pick a place to start, and get a draft out. Once that's done, look at where you can change your miserable manuscript to get it to the best possible version of your story.

    3. Re:Quantum Consciousness by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      I really wanted to mod you up, but I just had to reply instead.

      However, the concious mind can only deal with one possibilty at a time.

      I would say that one of the concious mind's essential functions is to narrow things down to one possibility at a time. It is the decision maker that collapses the possibilities thrown up by the rest of the brain into one fixed state. There's no reason to believe it, but the parallel to the original posters mention of quantum conciousness is a nice one.

      Our entire lives are lived making choice, that we think are logical, but once you get past the excuses and a rationalization, they turn out to be arbitrary. Or worse, someone else's arbitrary choice.

      There are two levels (at least) that this can be addressed on - the neurological and the cultural.

      For the first apporach, It's been shown that the human brain makes many decisions before concious awareness of that choice but that afterwards a person will rationalise that decision. The correct use of the concious mind is to train the brain as a whole to make the decisions that benefit it. To draw a metaphor from elsewhere in this thread, the brain as a whole is like that solution finding algorithm that finds a local best-case solution and is trapped because all near points are worse, even though a better solution exists in a remoter area of the solution space. The concious mind exists to observe and provide strategy where the unconcious system uses tactics.

      For the cultural approach, many of our decisions are made for us because we use behaviour learned from our predecessors or trainers. Unfortunately this behaviour was what worked for them to achieve aims that they chose. Unless we have identical aims then we are not acting for ourselves, but for others.

      When we say something, it is generally to the exclusion of something else.

      This is what is so frustrating to me. It's hard to say something without collapsing the possibilities. An abstract solution is to use language to describe the problem space rather than the solution. This puts things at one remove on the either/or scale. Of course, you're then collapsing the possible problem states to just one, but then you can repeat this process until you reach the required level of multiplicity.

      Am I making sense? My biggest problem is that I've developed a hybrid visual-language in my own head space (I think we all do to different degrees) and translating things into pure words takes time and is less intuitive.

      Anyone out there want to help me develop a new language with some built in multi-threading?

      And generally the most literate people are the ones least likely to engage in parallel thinking. (Grumbles the frustrated science fiction writer wannabee who has a story stuck in his head, but he can't tell it all at once.)

      So jumble it all together and tell them all at once. Worked for Catch-22. ;)

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
  26. What is a non-insightful answer? by imkonen · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Well, besides the obvious jokes about Modding...

    Subjects pressed a button to indicate whether they had solved the problem using insight, which they had been told leads to an Aha! experience characterized by suddenness and obviousness.

    So really, how would one solve a word problem without insight? Did any of the participants solve it by writing a dictionary searching algorithm into their PDA? Did they open a dictionary and start checking answers systematically? ("Bart, Cart, Dart, Eart... Nope, can't see any problem with that!")

    In my own experience it just seems like it's the obscurity of the answer that makes it seem insightful or not. If I had read the three words and instantly known the answer I don't think I would have felt the Aha! moment that I felt after staring at it for a minute. So am I less insightful if I solve it faster?

    1. Re:What is a non-insightful answer? by Carthag · · Score: 1

      I usually solve crosswords with a combination of insight and 'dictionary approach'. The first many words are solved through insight, but almost without a doubt, there will be a handful of words where I have to go through each letter of the alphabet and see if it fits with the given hint. These are normally the letters that don't cross any other word.

    2. Re:What is a non-insightful answer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The difference between an "insightful" or "non-insightful" answer is related to how you solved the problem. From what I understand in the article, problems like solving a math a simple equation would not give you a "Eureka" moment. You would solve that using incremental steps, using a pre-defined pattern that you already know:

      1- Replace the known variables
      2- Perform some calculations following the operator precedence
      3- Isolate the variable
      4- Perform some more calculations, if any left.
      (yeah, yeah, yeah, 5- Profit!)

      That would not give you any Eureka moment because you have followed a known pattern. For word problems, same applies. If you already know the answer to the question (consiously or not), a simple memory fetch won't be an "insightful moment". Or if you always solve the same word problems, in the long run your brain will always use the same algorithm to try to find the solution. So less Eureka moments.

      I think that these happen when your brain makes some brand new associations between concepts after a long, hard, thinking session. And when the new associations satisfy all the parameters of the problem, the brain raises a flag (so to speak) and you have your answer.

      On top of that, you will probably remember the solution longer then any other simple fact, as if saying "If it was worth all this work, might as well keep that answer".

      Disclaimer: IANA Brain Scientist.

    3. Re:What is a non-insightful answer? by imkonen · · Score: 1
      Well that's sort of what I was getting at. It's not that I can't imagine a problem that can be solved systematically and therefore without "insight"...like an algebra problem. It's that I can't see how to solve the example word-play problem without insight...or external help from say a dictionary or a computer. I mean sure, there was some systematic effort to it: I looked at one of the three clue words, came up with a word that made a pair, and then checked it with the other two words. I think it took me four or five guesses before I came up with "apple". Sure there was some systematic plodding in doing the cross checking, but actually coming up with the pair word was somewhat random (or at least I can't explain the order I came up with them). As far as I can describe, "It just popped in there." And had "apple" been my first attempt, I don't think I would have felt like I had an insight: I just would have felt like it was an easy question.

      Well...I may have read to much into the description, but it sounded like the whole test was like that example problem. I think the whole thing is still pretty interesting, but I just thought the example problem was curious.

  27. apple, the answer is apple. by mattyp · · Score: 5, Insightful

    pineapple, crabapple applesauce

    1. Re:apple, the answer is apple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weird - who the heck rated that OT? Read the article, mod. He's solving the puzzle in the article.

      Maybe someone's just pissy because they couldn't figure it out themselves....

    2. Re:apple, the answer is apple. by Old+Wolf · · Score: 1

      Now for the real question:
      how did you work it out?

      It only took me about 2 seconds to get the answer, but I would be at a loss to try and say how I did it, or how to explain to someone else how they could work it out in a similar timeframe.

      If I were writing a computer program, I would take a dictionary, look for words matching "pine(.*)", then see if "sauce\1" or "\1sauce" and "crab\1" or "\1crab" were also in the dictionary.
      However it just doesn't seem that this is the way that my brain worked it out. I say this because the same 'technique' would apply to more obfuscated situations, eg. if it had been "piny", "crabby", "saucy" then we would still have found the solution in the same time frame.

      If I had not seen the solution in a few seconds, I would have begun trying this algorithm consciously. But even in this case, there is the 'aha' moment when you try "pineapple" and realise without further conscious effort that it is correct.

  28. Answer to riddle by bobaferret · · Score: 1

    did any1 come up with the answer to pine , crab sauce thing..

    I think that box or nut might work, but none of those strike me as a eureka kinda word. nither of those say DoH! I can't belive I didn't see that.

    1. Re:Answer to riddle by bobaferret · · Score: 1

      That's much better than mine..more of a Doh! on that..

  29. This figures... (spoiler alert) by Two99Point80 · · Score: 1
    My SO and I were each pondering the word problem. I found a solution, then she walked in and said, "If you can't figure it out, I know the answer." Well, we each came up with a different answer, and I think they both are valid... . . . . . . . hers was "apple", mine was "white".

    Neither of us is exactly "standard" neurologically; I am autistic and tend to think in visual metaphor (see "Self-Awareness" at this site for examples...

  30. Re:Saturday puzzle, or "Shortz is shit" by The+Only+Druid · · Score: 1

    I'll admit, I've only regularly done the NYTimes crossword for a little over a year (I decided it would be a good exercise), so I may not have the best historical framework here. However, I think there are often excellent 'eureeka' moments, particularly on Thursday (where there is a trick to how certain boxes can be filled in, for example a single box meaning 'ying' horizontally and 'yang' vertically, as opposed to normal days were the clue is just a hint). I'll grant you, Saturdays are a bitch, but I still have those "Aha!" moments while working on them.

    Speaking of which, its time for breakfast and a paper...

    --
    "Stumble before you crawl"
  31. 1 Across : sudden, intuitive realization (8) by DrSkwid · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Epiphany

    One would have thought one with a decent vocabulary would have known the word for it rather than 'a eureka moment'.

    --
    There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    1. Re:1 Across : sudden, intuitive realization (8) by Merkuri22 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Funny, I always associated an epiphany with suddenly realizing something "important", not like word puzzles. Epiphanies are reserved for moments like the time you realized your parents must have had sex at least once. And let me tell you, I did not shout "eurika!" then. ;) I guess because I always use this example I feel like epiphanies are bad things.

    2. Re:1 Across : sudden, intuitive realization (8) by Phoe6 · · Score: 1

      Epiphany: ~~thinking~~ ~~thinking~~ Somewhere I have heard this word. How could I have missed this. how did this fella got it. epiphany...epiphany... Hey, this is a GNOME Browser Right? ~~AHA~~

      --
      Senthil
  32. Eureka! ... or at least you did by jimsum · · Score: 1

    I wonder if the "Eureka" moment I had when I read your answer is the same as if I'd figured it out myself?

    --
    -- Pot is safer than Beer
  33. Stop the clock... by Pherry · · Score: 1

    Apple :)

    Sorry I forgot this is slashdot - Article reading's not a strong point.

  34. Theese guys are running out of studies to do.. by patrick.whitlock · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So, they did a study...just to tell me that insightful people are going to finish a crossword puzzle faster?? who diddn't know this already?

    1. Re:Theese guys are running out of studies to do.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe this study would allow people to post insightful comments in /.

      BTW, the answer to "pine crab sauce" is 42.

  35. Akerue Moments by DeadVulcan · · Score: 4, Funny

    I often have Akerue! moments.

    Those are when you knew something, but suddenly, it's gone, and you can't for the life of you remember. I hate those.

    --
    Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
    Power in the hands of the accountable.
    1. Re:Akerue Moments by MeanMF · · Score: 2, Funny

      I often have Akerue! moments.

      Gesundheit.

    2. Re:Akerue Moments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I feel certain this is the name of some manga or anime I've seen, but I can't remember which.

    3. Re:Akerue Moments by Zurgutt · · Score: 1

      Well, the proper reverse-assed thing to do then would be to climb into bathtub with clothes on. Razor blade optional.

    4. Re:Akerue Moments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I often have Akerue! moments. Those are when you knew something, but suddenly, it's gone, and you can't for the life of you remember. I hate those.

      Too much weed?

    5. Re:Akerue Moments by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Actually, I looked up Akerue on a japanese dictionary because I thought it sounded like it might be a japanese word, and here's what I got.

      (v1) to dawn; to become daylight

      Not to far from the feeling of that 'eureka' moment at all.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    6. Re:Akerue Moments by sharkdba · · Score: 1

      well, I don't think people often forget what they know, but rather some details about what they know.

      I sometimes during conversations find myself in a situation where a word I need has "escaped" my mind. So it becomes harder to tell my point, since the word I need to express it is not there. This is of course temporary, but still annoying every time.

      Same think in programming. When solving certain problem I recollect that I solved similar problem before, but might forget how I did it. By checking my old code/notes I will immediately get the "Aha" effect (so THAT'S how I solved this).

      --
      The purpose of life is to find the purpose of life.
  36. Incubation and the 3 Bs by SolemnDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Eureka moments require a few different things to happen in order to bring them about. First, it requires an attempt to solve the puzzle in linear fashion, setting up the problem in mind and at least someplace to start in approaching it.

    Next, an incubation period, where you go and do something else, or stare into space and 'woolgather,' that fuzzy day-dream-like state in which you actually start organising thoughts, although it may not feel like it. The three Bs come into play here- bed, bath, and bus- the three likeliest placest to have a eureka moment, because those are incubatory periods, in which your brain starts approaching the puzzle from different angles.

    There are other good places- i find washing dishes helps, it's an activity that lets my mind wander and it's always been a quiet spot in the day after dinner. I know someone who goes for long walks.

    Sleeping on a problem really does help, partly because the brain trains during sleep, and you'll wake up better at the problem-solving activities because your brain has run through them in sleep. It may not solve abstract problems, but it at least helps with concrete skills, so who's to say it doesn't help with abstract thinking abilities as well?

    Beyond that, all i can think is... what kind of eureka moment results in... an article about eureka moments??

  37. Insight? by stm2 · · Score: 1

    I didn't get what is Insight. AFAIK, it was a new age crap.

    --
    DNA in your Linux: DNALinux
  38. Correctamundo.. by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 0

    Awww....beaten to it by an AC :o)
    Correct sah...well, that's what I reckon it is anyway.

  39. pwned by adamofgreyskull · · Score: 1

    Crabapple
    Pineapple
    Applesauce

    Those are all compound words according to reference.com, personally I think "apple sauce" should be two words, but what do I know? :o) For that reason...

    What are:
    pine white or white pine?
    crab white or white crab?
    White sauce I can see...but unless you're describing a pine and a crab as being white, they're meaningless, you may as well replace white with any colour. Unless I'm missing something...

    1. Re:pwned by nelsonal · · Score: 1

      There is a white pine tree, and I've heard of snow crab, further checking gives white crab as an alternate name for the ghost crab, it is likely a regional item (from the recipies it appears to be in the South (lots of white crab and crayfish meals).

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  40. I have most of those moments in the shower.. by freelunch · · Score: 2, Funny

    That is where I do my crosswords.

    In fact, I am thinking of moving my office.

    1. Re:I have most of those moments in the shower.. by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Don't you find that the paper smudges?

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  41. Re:Saturday puzzle, or "Shortz is shit" by MeanMF · · Score: 1

    However, I think there are often excellent 'eureeka' moments, particularly on Thursday

    I have to agree with you on this one. Did you do the April 1 puzzle this year?

    Certainly not every puzzle is going to be a work of art, but as far as crosswords in the US go I'd have to rank the NYT at or near the top of the list.

  42. Re:Saturday puzzle, or "Shortz is shit" by MeanMF · · Score: 1

    For all of the puzzle fanatics out there, let me recommend the geek-fest that is the American Crossword Puzzle tournament, held annually in Stamford, Connecticut (pretty close to NYC). The focus of the event is a series of timed puzzles judged on accuracy and speed. There are also a number of side events and other activities for word puzzle fans. I finished in the top third this year.. Woo hoo!

  43. Are you sure? by jtheory · · Score: 1

    I think I'm going to stick with my initial thought, that the answer is "y", the spanish word meaning "and".

    Think about it -- piney, crabby, saucy!
    Oooh - saucy...

    And RMS *of course* is 100% sure the answer is "GNU/" but I still like mine better.

    --
    There are only 10 types of people: those who understand decimal, those who don't, and, uh, 8 other types I forget.
  44. thinking = eyeball for concepts by johnrpenner · · Score: 1


    "Just as the eye percieves colours and the ear sounds,
    so thinking percieves ideas; it is an organ of perception. "

    (Goethean Science)

    | THE SUDDEN FLASH OF INSIGHT OCCURS WHEN solvers engage distinct
    | neural and cognitive processes that allow them to see connections
    | that previously eluded them.

    maybe its the other way around -- perhaps the distinct neural
    processes occur when one has the flash of insight.

    (but anyone who starts with the kantian presuppositions
    must reject that idea).

    regards,
    john

  45. So what's the connection? by MajorG17 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What is the common word between pine, crab, and sauce? (RTFA if you don't know what I mean)

    1. Re:So what's the connection? by st.+jude · · Score: 1

      Apple

  46. In the shower by kcdoodle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the shower, on the toilet, walking up the stairs, driving to work, almost anyplace but at my keyboard.

    This is where I solve the really tough problems.

    The simple stuff is what I do every day. The tougher problems like the large scale designs and unique solutions for unique problems rarely get solved while I am at work.

    I think about the big problems for hours or days and the solution finally comes to me.

    The only downside of solving problems in the shower, is that I am doing it on my time and the boss doesn't pay me for that.
    That is why I NEVER feel guilty about slahdotting at work.


    I live the greatest adventure anyone could wish for. -Tosk the Hunted

    --

    - I live the greatest adventure anyone could possibly desire. - Tosk the Hunted
    1. Re:In the shower by necronom426 · · Score: 1

      On the toilet sometimes works for me :-)

      Once I was writing a game and I needed to work out the gravity formula for my cannon ball. I went to the toilet and suddenly it was so clear! I was worried that I would forget it before I wrote it down, but I managed to get it on paper and when I coded it it worked!

  47. Spelling ... Not really by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    As you said, thats why I needed the program (bah).

    --
    Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
  48. Anyone can do it., In fact, ... by Cragen · · Score: 2, Funny
    pfft. I have this sort of experience every morning; in fact, I _have_to have one just to get out of bed. *AHA! I am awake! (Damn!)*

    cragen

  49. Plenty of Aha! in math by wurp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know I'm just echoing the AC, but I'm going to bull through anyway :) I have a math degree, and I had a lot of eureka classes. You were taking the wrong ones. In fact, it seems to me you would have to go out of your way to take math classes that were grind instead of eureka.

    Differentiation (basic calculus) is a grind. You learn a few simple rules and apply them. Integration, beyond the most basic, is all eureka. You learn a few rules, but they all require insight into how to rearrange the thing you're integrating so it fits a pattern.

    My favorite classes were about proofs. A proof is all eureka. A proof is a series of simple, basic steps that takes you from the given to the thing you're trying to prove. However, finding which basic steps go together to get what you want is all eureka. Many times in graduate level math courses I would work on a problem until midnight, go to sleep, wake up at 3am with the solution to the problem, write it down, & finish the problem in the morning. The interesting thing to me about proofs is that virtually always the way to prove the answer you want is to prove something much, much more powerful, of which the answer you want is a minor subset. It's as if your engineering teacher tells you to design a power source that can provide 1.5 volts for a day, and the easiest way you can find to do it is to build a Mr. Fusion. For example, to prove that all groups with 113 members are really the same group with different names for the elements, the easiest way is to prove that all groups with a prime number of elements hold that quality.

    1. Re:Plenty of Aha! in math by wizarddc · · Score: 1

      Dude, thanks for the insight. One of the problems on our last abstract algebra homework is to prove any ideal in Z is a principal idea. EUREKA!

      --
      Th
    2. Re:Plenty of Aha! in math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Z is a PID, therefore every ideal in Z is principal. QED ;)

    3. Re:Plenty of Aha! in math by wizarddc · · Score: 1

      We haven't gone over Principal Ideal Domains, and if we have, then my notes are missing it. We don't have a textbook in the class, because our professor is teaching "backwards", Rings and Fields before Groups, not after. And I think if I were to ask him about Principle Ideal Domains, he would probably know I went to an outside source for the homework, which is a no-no in this course. But thanks anyways.

      --
      Th
    4. Re:Plenty of Aha! in math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he means the homework is to prove that Z is a PID. Observe that if x,y in Z then gcd(x,y) in Z. It kinda follows from here.

      Explicitly: Let P be your ideal and let p be the least positive element of P. Take z in P, WLOG z is positive. Then gcd(p,z) is in P. (p,z)=p, so (p,z)=p. (p,z) divides z, so p divides z. Hence z is in the principle ideal generated by P. But then P is the principle ideal generated by P. QED.

  50. Re: tesla on edison by johnrpenner · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once
    with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
    the object of his search.

    I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory
    and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labour. "

    (Nikola Tesla, New York Times, October 19, 1931)

  51. Look and see: by CedgeS · · Score: 1
    pine nut
    nut crab
    nut sauce

    I'm sure this isn't the "correct" answer, since nut crabs arn't extraordinarily well known. But it is the first answer I thought of. There's another answer that also grows on trees. How many answers can we come up with?

  52. Re:Saturday puzzle, or "Shortz is shit" by cpeikert · · Score: 1

    I've done some old puzzles edited by Will Weng, and I've done a *ton* edited by Will Shortz. To me, there is no comparison. Will has really encouraged his constructors to have fun with their themes, and to creatively "break the rules" when it serves to create an "aha!" or "that's neat!" moment.

    where there is a trick to how certain boxes can be filled in, for example a single box meaning 'ying' horizontally and 'yang' vertically

    Awesome that you should mention this. The two authors of this puzzle are/were students in my research group (one graduated), and I think this is one of the best themes I've ever seen. I will mention your post to them!

  53. Different View of Insight by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 2, Informative

    We are given three discrete states of cognition by nature:

    Sleeping so deeply there are no dreams (delta or deeper)

    Sleeping with dreams (alpha, beta state)

    Eyes-open sleep (ordinary waking)

    But we can have several others:

    Observation and info-gathering (adult ego-state)

    Understanding and compassion (unnamed by science)

    Insight (unnamed by science)

    Oneness with God

    The fourth and later stages of consciousness usually are unpredictable and come and go by mood.

    The first three stages are culturally-defined and mandated, and the later stages are spoken of in metaphor by mystics, as language is incompetent to describe them.

    Eastern religious practices (yoga, zen, t'ai chi) are curricula for attaining these states.

    In Christianity, Insight is called "The Holy Spirit (or Ghost)." Anyone who has had an insight can remember wanting to sing, dance, shout, tell the world -- this is a religious experience that even scientists can share.

    In fact, science has another vector of similarity with religions: The scientific method (do it and see what happens) is exactly as useful as faith (I'll do it because I know God wants it done.)

    --

    We are not humans in search of the spiritual, we are spirits out to experience the truly human.

  54. Re:Saturday puzzle, or "Shortz is shit" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The rule breaking and "aha" moments in a Shortz puzzle are all of the nature of the mechanics of the little boxes and letters, they're all in the puzzle. There are no bilingual puns, or literary or show-biz references, there is no "higher plane". You may not experience the "i'm in the know" moments in a Weng puzzle because you might not be in the know, but for people in the know, a Shortz puzzle just seems dry and mechanical

  55. The word is... by dcw3 · · Score: 3, Informative

    epiphany
    n. pl. epiphanies

    A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization: "I experienced an epiphany, a spiritual flash that would change the way I viewed myself" (Frank Maier).

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
  56. Obtuse vs. Abstruse, a PSA by stevobi · · Score: 1

    "but on Saturdays that clue is insanely obtuse."

    Of course, Phoe6 meant "that clue is insanely abstruse. Unless the clue on saturdays is, in fact, insanely dumb. Seems to be a common mistake lately, I even saw Jon Stewart mix it up on The Daily Show. Wouldn't have said anything if the posting weren't in reference to a crossword. But what do I know? I can never get the stupid thing on Saturdays.

  57. That's my take, too. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    | THE SUDDEN FLASH OF INSIGHT OCCURS WHEN solvers engage distinct
    | neural and cognitive processes that allow them to see connections
    | that previously eluded them.

    maybe its the other way around -- perhaps the distinct neural
    processes occur when one has the flash of insight.


    That's my take, too. My impression is that the processing takes place for some time (and the mechanism is not wired for introspection of its operation, so you're largely unaware of it), producing one type of activity. Then, if a solution is recognized, there's a burst of another type of activity as the recognition is collected, checked, finalized, and/or propagated to other parts of the brain.

    This seems to square with the MRI showing increased activity once the problem is given, but the EEG showing a characteristic burst of high-frequency noise just before the "AHA" is reported. Perhaps it's fair to interpret the MRI as seeing the first activity, and the EEG capturing the second.

    A subjective and anaecdotal item: I get the impression that the (hypothetically pattern-matching) mechanism can call on other parts of the brain - more logical and more susceptable to introspection - at intermediate steps of the problem solving. For instance, about halfway to the solution of the "pine, crab, sauce" puzzle I remember thinking that they all looked food related and that the search should focus on food-related words. This step didn't seem to generate a full "aha", but it didn't follow from logic either. So perhaps a preliminary report of a potential weak correlation was reported out for logical checking and a "looks good, pursue it further" signal went back.

    That might imply that the "aha" burst involves a rapid set of confirmations of fit on different parts of the proposed solution.

    I've long thought of the thinking process as involving a world-model-building mechanism that includs pattern matcher(s) that hunt for connections and correlations, often finding false-positives, plus (hypothetically more sequential) checking process(es) that test the new correlations against the model and discard them as false or rearrange the model if they are accepted (possibly discarding previously accepted matches) - with pattern-matching assist to identify where checking should occur. Perhaps these results could put some rivets into such a model.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:That's my take, too. by edrain · · Score: 1

      I'm unfamiliar with the 'pine, crab, sauce' puzzle you referecned. Would you mind filling me in?

    2. Re:That's my take, too. by Zagadka · · Score: 1
  58. Cryptic crosswords by rsidd · · Score: 1
    Nothing compares to the satisfaction of completing a good cryptic crossword. But it seems to me hardly anyone in America even knows about these things, more's the pity.

    For the uninitiated, here's an excellent article from the Guardian describing what it's all about.

    The Guardian also had an article on how these things seem to be popular only in cricket-playing parts of the world (Britain, Australia/New Zealand, the Indian subcontinent, the Caribbean, South Africa). Both pastimes take forever to complete (but the pleasure is in the process of playing rather than in the end result), both involve arcane rules that seem incomprehensible to the uninitiated, both depend heavily on convention and gentlemanly conduct. The link is subscriber-only, though.

    1. Re:Cryptic crosswords by katarac · · Score: 1
      Nothing compares to the satisfaction of completing a good cryptic crossword.
      If that's true, then my Grandma was probably the most intellectually satisfied person I've ever met.
  59. Re:an American with insight ? by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 1

    Thank you so much for your understanding!

    When the insights come fast enough, the AHAs join together into one long AHA!aha,aha,ahahahahahahahahahah...

    So to be both insightful AND funny is the best compliment I could have hoped for.

    Glad you liked it.

    --
    The Universe and the psyche are identical, except they're folded differently.

  60. Languages by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Look at how some people find picking up new [non-computer] languages really easy, and other people of similar apparent intelligence seem to have a complete inability do this.

    I took a "Psych of Language Acquisition" course in college, back in the '60s - while trying to complete a language distribution requirement, hoping it would give me pointers. Instead it hexed me.

    The theory at the time was that there were certain "critical periods" in brain development, for different aspects of language acquisition (phonemes, grammar, etc.), before which acquisition of that aspect was easy, after which it was darned near impossible. Having transferred from engineering (which didn't require language) to computer science (which in those days was under "math" in "Liberal Sciences and Arts", and thus DID require a language), I was starting language acquisition late - and was thus just past the last of the "critical periods" of the theory.

    I had that class the hour immediately before the German class. So (regardless of the accuracy of the theory) I had to go straight from the class where I had to BELIEVE that theory (so I could reason from it to respond quickly to problem questions) to the one where I had to do what it said was impossible. Needless to say I didn't do well in German that term.

    Later I found out that some big-name anthropoligists said that the theory was bunk. Later the theory was revised to state that if you learned the relevant aspect of a SECOND language before the critical period you were able to learn that aspect of more languages afterward. And the underlying mechanism of one of the hypothetical critical periods - phoneme acquisition - is now beleived to involve the death of neurons that are not used by the phonemes of the language learned. (So to learn another after the critical period you have to grow new neurons or retarget those you are using for other purposes, rather than simply preserve existing neurons that do the right job. Those who learn a second language early would thus preserve more of the nerves and their functions - including perhaps some responsible for keeping languages separate.)

    So by this new model, people who learn a second language early and/or people who have exceptional nerve growth abilities would be able to learn languages later in life.

    That would correlate to some extent with my experience: As an young child I "talked to cats" - mimicing their body language and agonistic noises in context. Learning German I discovered that I could easily make the labial fricative and uvular trill - which are not in English but which I had used for "hiss" and "purr" in my childhood experiments - but had the same trouble with the labial trill as other native English speakers.

    So it would be interesting to know:
    - How old you were on your bike ride.
    - Whether you learned one or more than one language as a child.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Languages by troon · · Score: 1

      - How old you were on your bike ride.

      I was 23 years and 11 months old.

      - Whether you learned one or more than one language as a child.

      My first language is English. I learnt:

      • French from age 9 to 18
      • Spanish for one year at age 12
      • German from age 12 to 16

      This would appear to align with your theory, although I would add that the same effect was noticeable amongst my classmates. Some had no trouble with multiple languages, and others had trouble thinking straight on the day where we had three contiguous lessons in different languages!

      --
      Ydco co ,df C erb-y go. a Ekrpat t.fxrapev
  61. Hey, this sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The Einstein Factor
    One of the many, many topics in the book is just as the summary is like - leave a problem for awhile and your subconcious figures it out while your concious is doing something else. (no, I didn't RTFA, and I'm too lazy to sign up for a slashdot account, but I saw the article, skimmed the comments, and when I didn't see this book mentioned, I figured I'd share..)
    Very good book, by the way. I've not tried the techniques in there, but I've heard they're pretty powerful.

  62. The best way to learn is to teach by skintigh2 · · Score: 1

    Teaching a subject not only forces you to know your stuff and revisit the fundmentals, but you are asked fundmental questions you wouldn't normally think of.

    I think explaining your work is similar: to explain it, you have to start with the fundamentals which you normally wouldn't revisit when trying to solve a higher problem.

  63. The myth of either-or by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    People seem to have this really strange idea of either working through a potential solution set or starting with analysis or intuitive insight. Just why is it so hard to see that you can have both?

    And indeed, if you were to look through his writing (yes, I know where I am posting this) you would have seen that he actively pursued those elusive moments of inspirations, that part that was the one percent that led to 99 percent hard work following up on that one percent.

    The story goes that his technique (or at least one of then) was to sit down and relax with a pencil in hand, waiting for it to drop, and when then suddenly waking up from half-sleep, try to remember as much as possible he was thinking of.

    So, please try to accept there can be a both rather than an either-or.

  64. Where's Waldo by Gunark · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One thing this article doesn't mention is that it turns out that your aptitude for "insight" is directly correlated with your ability on pereception-related problems.

    For example, people who do well on Where's Waldo-type problems will tend to do well on seemingly unrelated insight problems (like NYTimes crossword puzzles :)

    This is also true for people who are really good at flipping the Necker cube.

    If anyone is interested, this is from two studies done by Schooler in the 1990's. The article here actually references those two:

    Schooler JW, Melcher J (1997) The ineffability of insight. In: Smith SM, Ward TB, Finke RA, editors. The creative cognition approach. Cambridge (Mass.): MIT Press. 97-133.

    Schooler JW, Ohlsson S, Brooks K (1993) Thoughts beyond words: When language overshadows insight. J Exp Psychol Gen 122: 166-183. Find this article online

  65. maybe I'm nuts but... by Dan9999 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I think that everyone has that insight, it's just that it's not always easy to stop the concious analisys of something, anything, whatever happens to be going on at that moment.

    Also, tv doesn't help, neither do all those bad things that all the religions talk about, they seem to diminish the trust that the insightful part of you has in your concious.

  66. Companies should have "Start Smoking" programs by BrianMarshall · · Score: 1
    I would be doing some work and get to some tricky aspect that I had to (or felt like) solving now. But it was a toughy... there was no obviously right solution, or I couldn't decide between two choices.

    So I would go out for a smoke. I would have the intention of continuing to try to solve the problem. I wasn't just taking (yet another) break, I was trying to change my surroundings...

    But, by the time I had finished the cigarette, I realized that I had gotten distracted much earlier and had, in fact, spent the time day dreaming. (I should probably stress, at this point, that I am, in fact, talking about tobacco - Drum from Holand (not that crap they put in commercial cigerettes)).

    Then, as I walked back towards the door, I would realize that I knew the right way to look at the problem and that the best solution was obvious.

    Companies that want to increase creativity and problem-solving skills should begin "Start Smoking" programs. (Manditory only for new-hires, or course.)

    --
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
  67. Lie detectors "work so well" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has got to be a troll. Lie detectors don't work.

  68. Eureka moments... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...yes, and the same moments trying to remember the name of the band that sings "True" (Spandau Ballet), when you remember it hours or days later.

    Douglas Hofstadter seems to hit on it much more so than most AI/CogSci people, in "Metamagical Themas" and some of his newer books.

    On the surface of our self-awareness, we see our thought processes as simple and "obvious". But underneath, there is a lot of diffuse processing going on that few people try to model. They try to model the surface, with Expert Systems, and other programs that seem to make their own cognitive connections (but really don't).

    Much like our concepts of the various processes that are running in a simple cell tend to think of things as just a bunch of discrete assembly lines, they really are much more complicated and nebulous than that.

    Now, it appears that not only are glia involved in neural processes, but prions might also be, too. Just like "junk" codons in cellular DNA might not be "junk", either. A difference in how or when that strand of DNA is run through RNA and expressed, it could have negative results for the cell or organism.

  69. How about foreigners by Mxyzptlk · · Score: 1

    Ah, thank you!

    I was thinking about the fact that I couldn't come up with the answer to this particular riddle, and I guess that is because english is only my second language (I am quite good at solving swedish crosswords, for example). What I wonder is. would the anterior superior temporal gyrus (aSTG) be involved in the same way, even for me - solving a problem in a non-native language?

    1. Re:How about foreigners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Insight? Linux!

      I tried 'grep crab /usr/share/dict/words' and likewise with 'pine' and 'sauce'. I know half a dozen words of English, but 'crabapple' is not one of them.

  70. Moo by Chacham · · Score: 1

    Although interesting, i find this ridiculous. The crossword puzzle is solved either through association (introverts are very good at memory retrieval via association) or intuition, the "N" in the MBTI. The Aha! moment that comes from this is a feeling of superiority. At first the problem was unsolvable, and now it is solvable. Given this pleasure increases when oithers are said to have not gotten it (such as saying it is a "hard" question), the pleasure comes from superiority over others, and not from the actual insight. This is the feeding of the ego, and a mature person is much less affected.

    There is a second form of pleasure one gets from a so-called insight, but that is not related. It is when the problem seems complex (i.e. cannot be easily solved with one breakdown of the question) and yet a simple principle explains it. That a _simple_ thing explained a _complex_ thing seems contradictory, and that contradiction is the basis of humor. However, this pleasure again has nothing to do with the insight, rather with the inherent humor of the situation.

    There is a final pleasure associated with insight, and that is when one uses his favored function (Jung identified four) in a more complex manner. So, the introverted thinkers (INTP and ISTP) get this pleasure from applying logic, the introverted feelers (INFP and ISFP) from applying feelings and harmony, introverted sensors (ISTJ and ISFJ) from sensory impressions, and introverted intuitives (INTJ and INFJ) from intuition. This is mostly for introverts as they apply--and get get pleasure from applying--their special capabilities to the inner world of ideas rather than the outer world of people and things. It would follow though, that it is the introverted intutives that get the greatest pleasure from problem-solving insight, as they enjoy closing the issue (the compensatory judging function that deals with the outer world wants to close the issue) and they trust their intuitions for problem solving more than anyone else.

    It is sad that this article completely ignored the century-old psycological data on the matter,