hardware devices can nab space in the address space for memory mapped I/O. Usually this leaves about a 1GB hole. If your CPU can only address 32-bits that means you can only have 3GB of usable memory.
With PAE or 64-bit long mode you can see more but that requires the OS to know about it and your BIOS to perform a memory remap.
PCI is stealing space to perform MMIO [memory mapped I/O].
You need a 64-bit OS that can understand physical memory remapping. My Opteron workstation had the same problem [space between 3-4GB was stolen] so my box which has 6GB of ram actually goes from 0-3GB and 4-7GB. Linux reads the e820 map from the BIOS and goes on it's merry way.
A 32-bit OS won't be too friendly in this respect. Technically you can address upto 16GB with a 32-bit OS [using PAE] but iirc Windows doesn't support it (at least not on the consumer side). Basically all 32-bit x86 processors nowadays support PAE [a feature once reserved for server parts].
PAE (physical address extension). Basically your page table (that table of pointers to 4kb pages of memory) sneaks in another 4 bits as part of the base address.
So your app can only address 4GB (well usually 2GB) but the base of that segment can be anywhere in a 36-bit address space.
I don't recall all of the details, but I do recall it's specially enabled mode. Paging on x86 is a nightmare. x86_64 is no better as they just added more layers of tables. IIRC there are 4 or 5 layers of tables. Think of pointers in C, like
etc... the CPU does a pppage[x][y][z] = whatever at execute time for every access. Well sorta, that's where TLB caches come in handy:-).
The actual 32-bit address you send in is broken into pieces, the lower 12 bits select a byte of page, the next 10 select a page, the next 10 select a 1024 array of page pointers [pointers to 4096 bytes of memory] and you're done 32-bits. If the upper 10 bits are always zero, then the process is limited to 1024*4096 bytes of memory and you only need to maintain one level of page tables:-)
Since the tables are fixed size they just made layers instead of making the tables bigger. That is, you can have as many layers [upto the max] as you wanted, zero'ing addresses when you don't want them. 64-bit addressing [well 48-bit] is done the same way. I think they change size as you go higher.
Anyways all too much info.
The answer to your question is the PAE bit and paging.:-)
My yamaha [electric grand piano] can record stuff. I started recording my practice playing recently. I can usually play along, but it's fairly hard to stay exactly on since, as others have said you never really play the same way twice.
Ok, let me explain this so you understand. They LOSE MONEY on the low end processors. That's not a lie, it's not a myth, it's the fucking truth. They make them because it fulfills a need and keeps the fab operating. But part of the equation that is missing here is how much money goes into making the die vs. the chip. If a processor costs $50 to make, $35 of which is the die and $15 is packaging, then throwing out a die that doesn't quite make the cut is stupid.
You already spent the $35, so selling the processor for anything more than the packaging cost makes sense. Using these numbers they could sell the processor for $20 and recoup $5 against the loss on the processor.
Now if you're fab has say 1000 employees, each earning on average say ~86K/yr [which is what I made at AMD btw], then each day costs the fab $235K in salaries alone (not including benefits). Then you add in interest on debt, utils, lease, etc. Each day could easily cost close to half a million dollars.
You're going to want them always making processors. Even if they're not the high end variety. Obviously you don't aim to make the low end parts, but you don't cut your losses as soon as a die fails to meet spec. So while a sempron [or celeron] may net them a loss, it nets them LESS of a loss so it makes sense. So instead of throwing out the dies and putting an idle bubble in the pipeline they keep going.
And of course oddly enough sometimes you have to make a near loss part to meet demand. There is a demand for celerons/semprons even if they are lower profit parts. Not making them would mean the customer would just jump ship and look elsewhere. I'm sure at one point or another both companies have set out to actually make them, not just by "accident" as they would have you believe.
512MB is plenty [heck 256MB is] for just running typical desktop apps. But building is another issue. GCC can easily gobble upwards of several hundred MBs optimizing a routine. In my case, I have large sections of machine generated code (see TomsFastMath for ref) and I've seen it spike 300MB or so compiling that.
On my laptop I have 1GB of ram, and it certainly comes in handy as it still leaves plenty for the other apps and disk cache.
For the case of my desktop, I have multiple cores and run a bunch of services, so it's nice to just not worry about ram.
Thanks for the compliment. I hope through diligent practice (I play twice a day, 7 days a week) I'll get some mad piano skills. Right now I don't play in public or for my friends. But I think in a couple of months I'll show off a song or two [royal conservatory piano y0]
Though I should point out I'm not a starving artist. By day I'm a cryptographer at a local [ottawa] design firm, earn some decent bank. Helps pay for things like a new piano and lessons:-)
She's dead jim! Plus, provided she lived, she could have been outed at any time and lost all of the earnings anyways.
Plus it's just uncool to rip others work for profit. Music, despite the bad rep, isn't easy. Takes a lot of practice and patience to get any good at it, and to just rip someone off, ain't cool.
You're missing a huge point. Every day that they're not making anything is a day of paying 1000s of wages, taxes, utilities and interest on the loans they take out to pay for the equipment. It's cheaper to make something, anything, that you can sell [and earn some low hanging customers] than so sit around doing nothing.
Think about it, you have a pile of costs that don't go away. You can't just lay off/rehire fab technicians on a whim. These costs don't just go away because demand for Opterons is lower one week compared to last.
They DO NOT make the low end processors to profit. Quite the contrary, they barely break even [if not lose money] on the deal in terms of per unit cost. Aside from re-couping some cost, they also earn business from customers who can only afford the $50 processor (which in all likelyhood is all they really need anyways). Many customers who start on the low end processors come back for another, or better yet, a higher end processor down the road.
So basically she had skill but wasn't pro-like, and had to use some micro to uber up some fame?
I'm studying piano now [admitedly I'm still newb-like] but I don't see the point in fraud. I play because I like the sound and the ability to vent feelings [both positive and negative] through the instrument. Faking it would just defeat the purpose of playing in the first place.
I can see the CDs being rips, but didn't she play publicly? Be kinda hard to fake that:)
As for the husband, either he recorded her playing in a studio, or he didn't. I don't see how you can mistake that and claim "I dunno how this happened."
Basically he's been busted and he's lying to save his ass.
"market based pollution reduction" is just a fancy way of saying "screw the consumer."
I'll take politicians serious about the environment when they actually sit down, and actually get tangible fucking results.
1. Big useless cars? still legal and generally accepted! 2. disposible society? Still going strong! 3. Public transit? Still a joke!
etc.
These types of changes can happen at home without signing some agreement that is very likely to benefit other people than the citizens who pay for it.
I'd love to take a bus to work. It means I wouldn't have to buy a $7000 used car, just to do a 10 minute drive. I could bike it, but it's 30 mins and I'd end up at work covered in sweat. Also this is Canada, biking in -30C weather is not an option.
I'd love to buy products in biodegradeable packaging. Especially things meant to be consumed quickly (like lunches that grocery stores make and the like). etc... and I doubt I'm alone. The problem is how the fuck do I get enough people simultaneously motivated to do what's actually right? It's just so simple, go to store, buy swiffer. Why would I get a mop and pail? etc... Take a bus? Why? The car is just right there!!!
Too many people are apathetic and hard to motivate that the government really has to make moves for us.
There are more than security issues. For example, you may opt for a cheaper co-lo deal by getting a VM slice instead of a dedicated box. In your VM slice you can install/do whatever you want because you're isolated from the other "boxes".
Also, if you have to have multiple build environments [re: software developer] then it's nicer to fire up a VM instead of a dedicated box.
And in a perfect world dictatorships are the most ideal form of government.
What's your point?
You *know* this will get abused and it won't be the business owners paying the fees. Even in the world where governments aren't wholesale corrupt, the businesses will just pass the fines onto the customers. Especially where they hold a monopoly or near monopoly.
Oil refinery polluting? Add $1 per gallon, coke plant polluting? Add $0.50 per bottle, etc. Yeah, people will stop driving cars or drinking cola because the producers up'ed the cost to cover the pollution fines.
The punishment should be absolute. As in, you're killing wildlife nearby, shut down the plant until they fix the problem. None of this "oh keep killing gaia, we'll collect a fine to make it all better."
Problem is it's the people who pay for it, not industry.
When your government is in league with the large corporations, it's hard to think of them as having a hard time spending the tax payers money to further their interests.
I'm not talking about corruption. I'm talking about aspirations and the desire to work hard.
I'm not saying there weren't lazy people in yesteryear. But I certainly don't remember reading about the same shit that goes down nowadays, people skirting around "truth in ads" laws, FICA, etc, etc... I'm certain there were people out for power and control in yesteryear. I'm just questioning which PERCENTAGE of humanity was that type.
I bet if you asked random people on the street whether being fulfilled or rich was more important you'd get the "rich" answer most of the time. People could care less if their life is meaningful, so long as they have some semblance of importance they're happy.
Art is required for the dissemination of culture in society?
As a rule we already penalize inefficient cars, from per cylinder taxes, to luxury taxes and the like. As a whole I think we should move to CFL and LEDs. But there are times where they're not up to par for what's being done.
I don't think a ban is the solution, I think education and market forces will work just fine. My house, and my friends homes have all being using CFL for years now despite the lack of any ban in Canada.
But if they were to put a ban in place, it would have to have exceptions I feel.
We have tubes at work, and I have CFLs at home. While the light isn't as nice in terms of warmth, they're not annoying to the point my eyes would bleed.
Maybe, just perhaps, you're a whiny little bitch, and you should consider that if you attempted to fix the problem with 3 minutes worth of work, you wouldn't have to gripe on/. to get a bit of comfort out of the situation?
1. The quality of the light is not the same. It affects white balance in filming and other camera work.
2. Kyoto == buying polution credits == not about fixing the problems
I'm all for them in the home because they lower power usage and for most people are adequate. But I think there should be exemptions for people who do artwork and need a cleaner light source.
Signing on to Kyoto won't solve the problem. All is does is allow people to buy/move polution credits and not actually force real change. I'll trust politicians talking about the environment when they put adequate bus service out to where I, and 10,000 other people, work. instead of forcing us to weather the cold walking distances/waiting long times for buses, or taking our cars.
Frankly, if they can't sort out bus routes, how the hell will we actually implement/follow the spirit of the kyoto accord?
I don't think this is true. Not more than three or four generations ago, more people were either FARMERs or blue collar workers. This idea that everyone in a suit is a high powered executive is a product of the late 70s and 80s.
And don't think I'm some wishy-washy 67 yr old timer looking back at yesteryear. I'm 25 for crying out loud. I've been in various business of various shapes and while they weren't bad places to work, they did seem to desire the allure of status over the pride of accomplishment way too much.
Look at the CPU wars for instance. It's not about what you actually need, it's about what they *want* you to need. When you start devoting your entire career towards making people think they need your product, as opposed to actually needing it, you lose track with reality and stop earning an honest living. At the end of the day you didn't advance science, or cure the next disease. You just sold millions of power sucking really fast processors to people who won't even use 10% of the potential [well I guess that's where Vista falls in]
I've seen MTV shows [Ice-T's rap school]... whoa people watch that shit? No offense to Ice T, but that show is retarded. A bunch of honky prep kids can't rap without years of training. First, they have no musical training, they can't hold a beat, have no tune, etc. Second, they're 12 years old. They're not even mentally developed enough to think up a proper rap, etc.
Then you got the other shows, one with a bunch of people at a beachside house, I don't even get what that show is about.
Oh then pimp my ride, that's awesome. Take a run down POS and bling it out. Turning it into the most expensive beacon of "rip me off please" ever..
Rather watch Little Britain. At least they got integrity.:-)
Slashdot Mirror
hardware devices can nab space in the address space for memory mapped I/O. Usually this leaves about a 1GB hole. If your CPU can only address 32-bits that means you can only have 3GB of usable memory.
With PAE or 64-bit long mode you can see more but that requires the OS to know about it and your BIOS to perform a memory remap.
Tom
PCI is stealing space to perform MMIO [memory mapped I/O].
You need a 64-bit OS that can understand physical memory remapping. My Opteron workstation had the same problem [space between 3-4GB was stolen] so my box which has 6GB of ram actually goes from 0-3GB and 4-7GB. Linux reads the e820 map from the BIOS and goes on it's merry way.
A 32-bit OS won't be too friendly in this respect. Technically you can address upto 16GB with a 32-bit OS [using PAE] but iirc Windows doesn't support it (at least not on the consumer side). Basically all 32-bit x86 processors nowadays support PAE [a feature once reserved for server parts].
Tom
PAE (physical address extension). Basically your page table (that table of pointers to 4kb pages of memory) sneaks in another 4 bits as part of the base address.
:-).
:-)
:-)
So your app can only address 4GB (well usually 2GB) but the base of that segment can be anywhere in a 36-bit address space.
I don't recall all of the details, but I do recall it's specially enabled mode. Paging on x86 is a nightmare. x86_64 is no better as they just added more layers of tables. IIRC there are 4 or 5 layers of tables. Think of pointers in C, like
unsigned char page[4096];
unsigned char *ppage[1024];
unsigned char **pppage[1024];
etc... the CPU does a pppage[x][y][z] = whatever at execute time for every access. Well sorta, that's where TLB caches come in handy
The actual 32-bit address you send in is broken into pieces, the lower 12 bits select a byte of page, the next 10 select a page, the next 10 select a 1024 array of page pointers [pointers to 4096 bytes of memory] and you're done 32-bits. If the upper 10 bits are always zero, then the process is limited to 1024*4096 bytes of memory and you only need to maintain one level of page tables
Since the tables are fixed size they just made layers instead of making the tables bigger. That is, you can have as many layers [upto the max] as you wanted, zero'ing addresses when you don't want them. 64-bit addressing [well 48-bit] is done the same way. I think they change size as you go higher.
Anyways all too much info.
The answer to your question is the PAE bit and paging.
Tom
My yamaha [electric grand piano] can record stuff. I started recording my practice playing recently. I can usually play along, but it's fairly hard to stay exactly on since, as others have said you never really play the same way twice.
:-)
Unless the metronome is going of course
Tom
Ok, let me explain this so you understand. They LOSE MONEY on the low end processors. That's not a lie, it's not a myth, it's the fucking truth. They make them because it fulfills a need and keeps the fab operating. But part of the equation that is missing here is how much money goes into making the die vs. the chip. If a processor costs $50 to make, $35 of which is the die and $15 is packaging, then throwing out a die that doesn't quite make the cut is stupid.
You already spent the $35, so selling the processor for anything more than the packaging cost makes sense. Using these numbers they could sell the processor for $20 and recoup $5 against the loss on the processor.
Now if you're fab has say 1000 employees, each earning on average say ~86K/yr [which is what I made at AMD btw], then each day costs the fab $235K in salaries alone (not including benefits). Then you add in interest on debt, utils, lease, etc. Each day could easily cost close to half a million dollars.
You're going to want them always making processors. Even if they're not the high end variety. Obviously you don't aim to make the low end parts, but you don't cut your losses as soon as a die fails to meet spec. So while a sempron [or celeron] may net them a loss, it nets them LESS of a loss so it makes sense. So instead of throwing out the dies and putting an idle bubble in the pipeline they keep going.
And of course oddly enough sometimes you have to make a near loss part to meet demand. There is a demand for celerons/semprons even if they are lower profit parts. Not making them would mean the customer would just jump ship and look elsewhere. I'm sure at one point or another both companies have set out to actually make them, not just by "accident" as they would have you believe.
Tom
512MB is plenty [heck 256MB is] for just running typical desktop apps. But building is another issue. GCC can easily gobble upwards of several hundred MBs optimizing a routine. In my case, I have large sections of machine generated code (see TomsFastMath for ref) and I've seen it spike 300MB or so compiling that.
On my laptop I have 1GB of ram, and it certainly comes in handy as it still leaves plenty for the other apps and disk cache.
For the case of my desktop, I have multiple cores and run a bunch of services, so it's nice to just not worry about ram.
Tom
Fine you don't like Gentoo. You can *choose* Ubuntu, Debian, Knoppix, Suse, Fedora, etc, then there are the BSDs, etc. oooh I just love choice.
All these choices involve not shelling money to some evil monopolist who seeks to take the power from the users and lower the freedoms of all.
I run GNU/Linux on a custom box. 2GB of ram works fine for me as a workstation [frankly 1GB would be fine but I do a lot of large builds].
:-)
Fortunately, I didn't have to upgrade my box to choose Gentoo
Thanks for the compliment. I hope through diligent practice (I play twice a day, 7 days a week) I'll get some mad piano skills. Right now I don't play in public or for my friends. But I think in a couple of months I'll show off a song or two [royal conservatory piano y0]
:-)
Though I should point out I'm not a starving artist. By day I'm a cryptographer at a local [ottawa] design firm, earn some decent bank. Helps pay for things like a new piano and lessons
Tom
She's dead jim! Plus, provided she lived, she could have been outed at any time and lost all of the earnings anyways.
Plus it's just uncool to rip others work for profit. Music, despite the bad rep, isn't easy. Takes a lot of practice and patience to get any good at it, and to just rip someone off, ain't cool.
Tom
You're missing a huge point. Every day that they're not making anything is a day of paying 1000s of wages, taxes, utilities and interest on the loans they take out to pay for the equipment. It's cheaper to make something, anything, that you can sell [and earn some low hanging customers] than so sit around doing nothing.
Think about it, you have a pile of costs that don't go away. You can't just lay off/rehire fab technicians on a whim. These costs don't just go away because demand for Opterons is lower one week compared to last.
They DO NOT make the low end processors to profit. Quite the contrary, they barely break even [if not lose money] on the deal in terms of per unit cost. Aside from re-couping some cost, they also earn business from customers who can only afford the $50 processor (which in all likelyhood is all they really need anyways). Many customers who start on the low end processors come back for another, or better yet, a higher end processor down the road.
Tom
So basically she had skill but wasn't pro-like, and had to use some micro to uber up some fame?
I'm studying piano now [admitedly I'm still newb-like] but I don't see the point in fraud. I play because I like the sound and the ability to vent feelings [both positive and negative] through the instrument. Faking it would just defeat the purpose of playing in the first place.
Tom
I can see the CDs being rips, but didn't she play publicly? Be kinda hard to fake that :)
As for the husband, either he recorded her playing in a studio, or he didn't. I don't see how you can mistake that and claim "I dunno how this happened."
Basically he's been busted and he's lying to save his ass.
Tom
It's so hard, I'm employed.
Tom
"market based pollution reduction" is just a fancy way of saying "screw the consumer."
I'll take politicians serious about the environment when they actually sit down, and actually get tangible fucking results.
1. Big useless cars? still legal and generally accepted!
2. disposible society? Still going strong!
3. Public transit? Still a joke!
etc.
These types of changes can happen at home without signing some agreement that is very likely to benefit other people than the citizens who pay for it.
I'd love to take a bus to work. It means I wouldn't have to buy a $7000 used car, just to do a 10 minute drive. I could bike it, but it's 30 mins and I'd end up at work covered in sweat. Also this is Canada, biking in -30C weather is not an option.
I'd love to buy products in biodegradeable packaging. Especially things meant to be consumed quickly (like lunches that grocery stores make and the like). etc... and I doubt I'm alone. The problem is how the fuck do I get enough people simultaneously motivated to do what's actually right? It's just so simple, go to store, buy swiffer. Why would I get a mop and pail? etc... Take a bus? Why? The car is just right there!!!
Too many people are apathetic and hard to motivate that the government really has to make moves for us.
Tom
There are more than security issues. For example, you may opt for a cheaper co-lo deal by getting a VM slice instead of a dedicated box. In your VM slice you can install/do whatever you want because you're isolated from the other "boxes".
Also, if you have to have multiple build environments [re: software developer] then it's nicer to fire up a VM instead of a dedicated box.
Tom
And in a perfect world dictatorships are the most ideal form of government.
What's your point?
You *know* this will get abused and it won't be the business owners paying the fees. Even in the world where governments aren't wholesale corrupt, the businesses will just pass the fines onto the customers. Especially where they hold a monopoly or near monopoly.
Oil refinery polluting? Add $1 per gallon, coke plant polluting? Add $0.50 per bottle, etc. Yeah, people will stop driving cars or drinking cola because the producers up'ed the cost to cover the pollution fines.
The punishment should be absolute. As in, you're killing wildlife nearby, shut down the plant until they fix the problem. None of this "oh keep killing gaia, we'll collect a fine to make it all better."
Tom
Problem is it's the people who pay for it, not industry.
When your government is in league with the large corporations, it's hard to think of them as having a hard time spending the tax payers money to further their interests.
Tom
I'm not talking about corruption. I'm talking about aspirations and the desire to work hard.
I'm not saying there weren't lazy people in yesteryear. But I certainly don't remember reading about the same shit that goes down nowadays, people skirting around "truth in ads" laws, FICA, etc, etc... I'm certain there were people out for power and control in yesteryear. I'm just questioning which PERCENTAGE of humanity was that type.
I bet if you asked random people on the street whether being fulfilled or rich was more important you'd get the "rich" answer most of the time. People could care less if their life is meaningful, so long as they have some semblance of importance they're happy.
Art is required for the dissemination of culture in society?
As a rule we already penalize inefficient cars, from per cylinder taxes, to luxury taxes and the like. As a whole I think we should move to CFL and LEDs. But there are times where they're not up to par for what's being done.
I don't think a ban is the solution, I think education and market forces will work just fine. My house, and my friends homes have all being using CFL for years now despite the lack of any ban in Canada.
But if they were to put a ban in place, it would have to have exceptions I feel.
Tom
Dude, consider replacing the bulb?
/. to get a bit of comfort out of the situation?
We have tubes at work, and I have CFLs at home. While the light isn't as nice in terms of warmth, they're not annoying to the point my eyes would bleed.
Maybe, just perhaps, you're a whiny little bitch, and you should consider that if you attempted to fix the problem with 3 minutes worth of work, you wouldn't have to gripe on
Tom
1. The quality of the light is not the same. It affects white balance in filming and other camera work.
2. Kyoto == buying polution credits == not about fixing the problems
I'm all for them in the home because they lower power usage and for most people are adequate. But I think there should be exemptions for people who do artwork and need a cleaner light source.
Signing on to Kyoto won't solve the problem. All is does is allow people to buy/move polution credits and not actually force real change. I'll trust politicians talking about the environment when they put adequate bus service out to where I, and 10,000 other people, work. instead of forcing us to weather the cold walking distances/waiting long times for buses, or taking our cars.
Frankly, if they can't sort out bus routes, how the hell will we actually implement/follow the spirit of the kyoto accord?
Tom
Where the fuck did this come from? Where did I say tracking inside your home is a good idea?
How about this, if you want to form a cogent argument and have a serious "grown up" debate, you stop lying about what others are saying.
let me know when you're mature enough to play at the big boy table.
Tom
I don't think this is true. Not more than three or four generations ago, more people were either FARMERs or blue collar workers. This idea that everyone in a suit is a high powered executive is a product of the late 70s and 80s.
And don't think I'm some wishy-washy 67 yr old timer looking back at yesteryear. I'm 25 for crying out loud. I've been in various business of various shapes and while they weren't bad places to work, they did seem to desire the allure of status over the pride of accomplishment way too much.
Look at the CPU wars for instance. It's not about what you actually need, it's about what they *want* you to need. When you start devoting your entire career towards making people think they need your product, as opposed to actually needing it, you lose track with reality and stop earning an honest living. At the end of the day you didn't advance science, or cure the next disease. You just sold millions of power sucking really fast processors to people who won't even use 10% of the potential [well I guess that's where Vista falls in]
Tom
I've seen MTV shows [Ice-T's rap school] ... whoa people watch that shit? No offense to Ice T, but that show is retarded. A bunch of honky prep kids can't rap without years of training. First, they have no musical training, they can't hold a beat, have no tune, etc. Second, they're 12 years old. They're not even mentally developed enough to think up a proper rap, etc.
:-)
Then you got the other shows, one with a bunch of people at a beachside house, I don't even get what that show is about.
Oh then pimp my ride, that's awesome. Take a run down POS and bling it out. Turning it into the most expensive beacon of "rip me off please" ever..
Rather watch Little Britain. At least they got integrity.
Tom