What's your beef with GCC? It's not the fastest compiler in the world [MSVC holds that in my books] but it does a very good job at optimizing and it follows the C99 and C++98 specs much closer than ICC or MSVC. Keep in mind that GCC today is the product of many contributors and not solely RMS.
I don't see being a Linux fanboy as being a RMS fanboy. I use many tools on a daily basis, none of which are written by RMS [or being maintained by RMS for the last decade].
There is a difference between recognizing greatness and attributing credit.
Newton was a great person in that he differentiated himself with his discoveries. He did not, however, invent the internal combustion engine [that was Samuel Brown in 1823].
So by your logic Newton and da Vinci should get all the credit for the internal combustion engine. Samuel Brown was afterwall just a hack with no creativity or originality.
Again I challenge you. Create the RMS distro. Remove all non-RMS authored packages from your favourite distro and then see how well it works. Can't or won't do this? why not? I mean RMS is the reason OSS is possible isn't he? Nobody else deserves any of the credit. If that's the case stop stealing the work of others.
You like Mozilla? RMS didn't write that. You like xorg-x11? RMS didn't write that. You like the Linux or BSD Kernel? RMS didn't write that. You like any modern version of GCC? RMS didn't write that. You like KDE or Gnome? RMS didn't write those. You like... and so on and so on.
If nobody took what RMS started and ran with it for the last two decades RMS would be nothing more than a disfunctional hippie loser still sitting in college wondering why he's not popular.
People don't read "the manual" partially because they're lazy and partially because for nearly two decades "the manual" has amount to nothing more than pretty pictures and advertisement for product add-ons.
Besides I don't view "game not working on setup" as a feature. If the game was well put together it would have reduced texture/polycount modes so it could work on a more appropriate range of hardware.
There use to be a day where programmers were judged by how well they could make software fit the hardware. Not the other way around.
7600-256MB cost 180$, 6600-256MB cost 120$ and the 128MB version is 20$ cheaper.
That's today. But 6 months ago the price disparity was much higher. My 6600 cost 180$ when I bought it and the 7600 was over 250$.
Some people wanna game but don't care if they have to do it at 1024 or 800. Admitedly today if I had to buy either I might just go for the 7600 since the price difference is so low. So I guess you have a point about just sticking to the 7xxx series.
I don't think you're actually reading what I'm writing.
I acknowledge that he was a strong catylyst for the OSS movement.
I just don't think he's the reason millions of people are enjoying the OSS movement today. Many many many people work on OSS tools and when people blatantly say "OSS is because of RMS" they blatantly disregard their contributions.
If you think the best way to celebrate the OSS movement is to heroworship RMS then you obviously don't understand the scene.
Oh give me a break. He may have started GCC but it was the contributors that actually made it worth while.
Recall the back in the day commercial vendors used watcom on x86, and the proprietary CC on others. Look at all the changes in the 2.x, 3.x and the new 4.x series. How many have his name on them? 2.x has been out for a VERY LONG TIME.
Saying that the OSS scene is just because of RMS is slap in the face to the thousands of people who donate thousands of hours of their lives to make scene better.
Yeah, well God made RMS so therefore the whole OSS scene is due to God.
How far does this blatant hero worship go?
And you don't think someone else wouldn't have invented a GPL like license in due course?
Yes, he should get credit for doing something nobody else did, that is, kick start the whole OSS scene. He was a significant contributor both in ideals and code. But that was also a VERY LONG TIME AGO.
He's as much a part of most OSS tools today as Alan Turing is.
There are thousands upon thousands of contributors to the OSS world. He may have been a significant figure at the debut but it's easy to see that many tools we take for granted [including the GCC toolset] are made usable by many others.
OSS exists today as more than a "emacs is good enough for anyone" attitude due to the contribution of many more people than RMS. If RMS had his way we'd all be in black and white X11 windows with emacs running in every xterm.
This may sound like player hater but look at the hundreds of packages in the average distro. Now look for his name in the authors list. How many packages have his name on them?
Now take all the packages without his name in it [including the Linux Kernel] and see how useful your distribution is.
Besides we know he does this because he can't hack it in the real world where he has to actually be productive and not just some press-whoring asshat with a beard.
I'd rather have a system where you say the problem and they actually look into helping instead of seeing where it falls in a script.
This doesn't mean paying L1 $50/hr. It means having L1 who actually know the product.
If I say I can't renew my DHCP lease it doesn't mean I have to power cycle my modem. It means the DHCP server hasn't released the previous lease or is refusing a new lease. But you think the average script monkey knows this?
I say pay them a decent proper wage [at least $20/hr] and expect them to either know the product or pass training based on it.
Yeah, but how many people aim for that because it's low and doesn't require a lot of actual skill?
I can understand people who are truly [and I mean actually truly] qualified for more serious work and do the L1 shit to pay the rent.
But if India is anything like North America in this respect [and I can bet it is] a lot of people use these shit jobs as a safety net so they don't have to try hard in life. Like learn real skills, apply themselves, etc.
I get that bitch alot here, how do I get noticed without first getting a job... You make work. Do work on OSS projects and get your name attached.
Any asshat can be alive for four years of college. It takes a real winner to apply it out of their own initiative.
Spam/phishing is not only of ignorance. I use gmail for my mail and still get a dozen spams a day in my inbox [and ten times that in my junk folder].
The problem many people have with spam is not just that its a time waster but that they're largely powerless to do anything about it. They view being sent spam as a token that someone else thinks they're more important than you are and has no respect for your ability to communicate.
At least that's how I view it. When I get spam in the inbox I ask myself "Who the fuck are you and what right do you have to send me the same penny stock advertisement 30 times in a row?"
Not only is it emotionally annoying but it's a logistics nightmare. I get about 100 spams a day sent to my account. Now imagine if you're gmail or another large company with tens of thousands of accounts if not more. You start measuring spam in the millions per day. Someone has to pay for that and it certainly [at least now] isn't the spammer.
Why shouldn't I. The americans are so proud about their WW2 victory and now they're essentially in the same path as the Germans were. I personally find it funny that they would sacrifice their dignity for their perceived safety and future.
I don't think the average American gets it. I could go right now, buy a ticket to fly to any state, walk up to a stranger and end their life. How safe are you really? I wouldn't do this for the reason that I respect life as I would hope they respect others [including myself]. Now that I said this I'll probably get an anal probe at the airport next time... oh well.
So the key to "safety" is co-operation. That means no hording the planet for your own use [oil, pollution, etc, etc], that means equal chances to make it in life [e.g. no class system, rich getting richer, etc]. Right now life is so cheap in most countries [including the States]. Of course this means that most Westerners [and I'm a cannuck so I mean myself too] would have to tone down their quality of life. Why should we live like kings while others suffer? What have you done to build your country? Maybe your grand parents grand parents helped to build your nation but that's long since removed from our lives. We just take everything for granted.
If the states could just get along with others instead of trying to impose imperial rule over them they wouldn't have to treat their own citizens as the enemy.
I could go for honest ads for a change. That'd be "all new" and shock the audience.
"Drink Pepsi! It's full of neato chemicals and corn syrup! Yum!"
or
"Drive our Ford Monstrocity F-200 Manly Man Series! 8MPG is our new personal best!"
or even
"This Dell XPS170000K series with some random assortment of parts assembled by mexicans in Texas is just what you need! Honest!"
Frankly, I buy what I want, not what the TV tells me to. The fact they assume I have the IQ of some sort of retarded 4 year old child though is insulting on a whole other level.
There are two parts to that. First off, the composition of the die is varied. Some parts are the ALU, FPU, cache, etc. So depending where the current is going changes the heat [no duh]. The FPU is particularly nasty as unlike the ALU it takes at least 2 EX cycles to do anything and most complicated instructions are at least 4 EX cycles. This means something in the FPU is running for 4 cycles at a time, cannot be interrupted, etc.
So getting heat local to the FPU isn't too surprising. There are various things in place to mitigate that, for example, the heat spreader. But it can only absorb heat so fast. The lack of APIC interrupts (e.g. timers) makes this test rather artificial. If I recall correctly OSes send timer interrupts to processors to schedule tasks. So this would have to be something that is beyond an OSes control. Like you'd have to write your own mini-OS or something.
The other part though is you have to keep in mind making processors is not an exact process. My two x85 series opterons probably have slightly different features (e.g. exact alignment) even though they're made from the same design. If I sliced them open and got "my first electron microscope" and looked at them I'd probably be able to measure slight differences. There are other controlled issues (quality of material, chemcials, etc). So that a batch of processors exhibit this problem is concerning but not impossible.
I'll bet you they probably have another test on the QA line now:-)
... I just got my pair of 285s!... well fortunately I don't do a lot of FPU work like that. That and I run cpufreq in "ondemand" mode so I don't care about heat...
Slashdot Mirror
techno mumbo jumbo aside.
The card can play doom, farcry, halflife and ut2k4.
By crippled I meant the 6200 series "TurboCache" bullshit.
At the time I bought it I could get the 6600 for 175$, the 6200 for 60$ or the 6800 for 225$ [or the 7xxxx series for more than 250$].
But all the mindless comparisons aside it works just fine and doesn't cost 300$ now or when I bought it.
tom
Oh I get it because people choose the GPL, RMS will develop the project for them?
No?
Oh ok.
What's your fucking point?
What's your beef with GCC? It's not the fastest compiler in the world [MSVC holds that in my books] but it does a very good job at optimizing and it follows the C99 and C++98 specs much closer than ICC or MSVC. Keep in mind that GCC today is the product of many contributors and not solely RMS.
I don't see being a Linux fanboy as being a RMS fanboy. I use many tools on a daily basis, none of which are written by RMS [or being maintained by RMS for the last decade].
Tom
Ok this is just a bullshit flamewar now.
... and so on and so on.
There is a difference between recognizing greatness and attributing credit.
Newton was a great person in that he differentiated himself with his discoveries. He did not, however, invent the internal combustion engine [that was Samuel Brown in 1823].
So by your logic Newton and da Vinci should get all the credit for the internal combustion engine. Samuel Brown was afterwall just a hack with no creativity or originality.
Again I challenge you. Create the RMS distro. Remove all non-RMS authored packages from your favourite distro and then see how well it works. Can't or won't do this? why not? I mean RMS is the reason OSS is possible isn't he? Nobody else deserves any of the credit. If that's the case stop stealing the work of others.
You like Mozilla? RMS didn't write that. You like xorg-x11? RMS didn't write that. You like the Linux or BSD Kernel? RMS didn't write that. You like any modern version of GCC? RMS didn't write that. You like KDE or Gnome? RMS didn't write those. You like
If nobody took what RMS started and ran with it for the last two decades RMS would be nothing more than a disfunctional hippie loser still sitting in college wondering why he's not popular.
Tom
People don't read "the manual" partially because they're lazy and partially because for nearly two decades "the manual" has amount to nothing more than pretty pictures and advertisement for product add-ons.
Tom
I'd need to buy a 1600x1200 monitor first...
Besides I don't view "game not working on setup" as a feature. If the game was well put together it would have reduced texture/polycount modes so it could work on a more appropriate range of hardware.
There use to be a day where programmers were judged by how well they could make software fit the hardware. Not the other way around.
Tom
7600-256MB cost 180$, 6600-256MB cost 120$ and the 128MB version is 20$ cheaper.
That's today. But 6 months ago the price disparity was much higher. My 6600 cost 180$ when I bought it and the 7600 was over 250$.
Some people wanna game but don't care if they have to do it at 1024 or 800. Admitedly today if I had to buy either I might just go for the 7600 since the price difference is so low. So I guess you have a point about just sticking to the 7xxx series.
My bad...
Tom
I don't think you're actually reading what I'm writing.
I acknowledge that he was a strong catylyst for the OSS movement.
I just don't think he's the reason millions of people are enjoying the OSS movement today. Many many many people work on OSS tools and when people blatantly say "OSS is because of RMS" they blatantly disregard their contributions.
If you think the best way to celebrate the OSS movement is to heroworship RMS then you obviously don't understand the scene.
Tom
Oh give me a break. He may have started GCC but it was the contributors that actually made it worth while.
Recall the back in the day commercial vendors used watcom on x86, and the proprietary CC on others. Look at all the changes in the 2.x, 3.x and the new 4.x series. How many have his name on them? 2.x has been out for a VERY LONG TIME.
Saying that the OSS scene is just because of RMS is slap in the face to the thousands of people who donate thousands of hours of their lives to make scene better.
Tom
Yeah, well God made RMS so therefore the whole OSS scene is due to God.
How far does this blatant hero worship go?
And you don't think someone else wouldn't have invented a GPL like license in due course?
Yes, he should get credit for doing something nobody else did, that is, kick start the whole OSS scene. He was a significant contributor both in ideals and code. But that was also a VERY LONG TIME AGO.
He's as much a part of most OSS tools today as Alan Turing is.
Tom
You need a 7xxx series to get "mid gaming"?
I can run most FPSes at 1024x768 with my GeForce 6600.
I only spent 175$ on my card not 300$.
Me thinks you're not really viewing things objectively.
Tom
ARRG I hate comments like this.
There are thousands upon thousands of contributors to the OSS world. He may have been a significant figure at the debut but it's easy to see that many tools we take for granted [including the GCC toolset] are made usable by many others.
OSS exists today as more than a "emacs is good enough for anyone" attitude due to the contribution of many more people than RMS. If RMS had his way we'd all be in black and white X11 windows with emacs running in every xterm.
This may sound like player hater but look at the hundreds of packages in the average distro. Now look for his name in the authors list. How many packages have his name on them?
Now take all the packages without his name in it [including the Linux Kernel] and see how useful your distribution is.
Besides we know he does this because he can't hack it in the real world where he has to actually be productive and not just some press-whoring asshat with a beard.
Tom
You mean you don't need the most expensive hardware possible to enjoy life?
/me happy with my 6600 :-) [it's the cheapest non-crippled PCIe card I could find at the time]
No way!!! BUY BUY BUY!!!
Tom
1. Follow standards, that way you don't need unique proprietary support
2. Actually bug-test your product. Feature testing is not enough
3. Supply the user with a competent manual that is detailed enough to cover most concerns
4. Hire staff who don't write in Engrish.
There are many things you can do besides setting up an L1 shop to support a product.
Tom
I'd rather have a system where you say the problem and they actually look into helping instead of seeing where it falls in a script.
This doesn't mean paying L1 $50/hr. It means having L1 who actually know the product.
If I say I can't renew my DHCP lease it doesn't mean I have to power cycle my modem. It means the DHCP server hasn't released the previous lease or is refusing a new lease. But you think the average script monkey knows this?
I say pay them a decent proper wage [at least $20/hr] and expect them to either know the product or pass training based on it.
Tom
Yeah, but how many people aim for that because it's low and doesn't require a lot of actual skill?
I can understand people who are truly [and I mean actually truly] qualified for more serious work and do the L1 shit to pay the rent.
But if India is anything like North America in this respect [and I can bet it is] a lot of people use these shit jobs as a safety net so they don't have to try hard in life. Like learn real skills, apply themselves, etc.
I get that bitch alot here, how do I get noticed without first getting a job... You make work. Do work on OSS projects and get your name attached.
Any asshat can be alive for four years of college. It takes a real winner to apply it out of their own initiative.
Tom
Spam/phishing is not only of ignorance. I use gmail for my mail and still get a dozen spams a day in my inbox [and ten times that in my junk folder].
The problem many people have with spam is not just that its a time waster but that they're largely powerless to do anything about it. They view being sent spam as a token that someone else thinks they're more important than you are and has no respect for your ability to communicate.
At least that's how I view it. When I get spam in the inbox I ask myself "Who the fuck are you and what right do you have to send me the same penny stock advertisement 30 times in a row?"
Not only is it emotionally annoying but it's a logistics nightmare. I get about 100 spams a day sent to my account. Now imagine if you're gmail or another large company with tens of thousands of accounts if not more. You start measuring spam in the millions per day. Someone has to pay for that and it certainly [at least now] isn't the spammer.
Tom
When everyone and their brother wants to fill a role they're not qualified imagine that, they get paid like shit.
It's like someone who studies to be a chef wondering why they don't make a lot of money at McDonalds.
There are L2 and L3 roles which pay better. I know a few L3 people at IBM and they're smart people earning decent bucks [way more than $7/hr].
So if these peeps are so damn smart don't apply for L1 support roles.
Tom
Canadians did it too...
Except now we're run by "immigants" [purposefully mispelt] so I think we got enough diversity to avoid "they took er juubs!"
Tom
Why shouldn't I. The americans are so proud about their WW2 victory and now they're essentially in the same path as the Germans were. I personally find it funny that they would sacrifice their dignity for their perceived safety and future.
I don't think the average American gets it. I could go right now, buy a ticket to fly to any state, walk up to a stranger and end their life. How safe are you really? I wouldn't do this for the reason that I respect life as I would hope they respect others [including myself]. Now that I said this I'll probably get an anal probe at the airport next time... oh well.
So the key to "safety" is co-operation. That means no hording the planet for your own use [oil, pollution, etc, etc], that means equal chances to make it in life [e.g. no class system, rich getting richer, etc]. Right now life is so cheap in most countries [including the States]. Of course this means that most Westerners [and I'm a cannuck so I mean myself too] would have to tone down their quality of life. Why should we live like kings while others suffer? What have you done to build your country? Maybe your grand parents grand parents helped to build your nation but that's long since removed from our lives. We just take everything for granted.
If the states could just get along with others instead of trying to impose imperial rule over them they wouldn't have to treat their own citizens as the enemy.
Tom
They had a process for putting Jews in camps as well. :-)
Just thought I'd let you know that.
Tom
Admitedly I didn't RTFA until after I posted...
phew..
Tom
I could go for honest ads for a change. That'd be "all new" and shock the audience.
"Drink Pepsi! It's full of neato chemicals and corn syrup! Yum!"
or
"Drive our Ford Monstrocity F-200 Manly Man Series! 8MPG is our new personal best!"
or even
"This Dell XPS170000K series with some random assortment of parts assembled by mexicans in Texas is just what you need! Honest!"
Frankly, I buy what I want, not what the TV tells me to. The fact they assume I have the IQ of some sort of retarded 4 year old child though is insulting on a whole other level.
Tom
There are two parts to that. First off, the composition of the die is varied. Some parts are the ALU, FPU, cache, etc. So depending where the current is going changes the heat [no duh]. The FPU is particularly nasty as unlike the ALU it takes at least 2 EX cycles to do anything and most complicated instructions are at least 4 EX cycles. This means something in the FPU is running for 4 cycles at a time, cannot be interrupted, etc.
:-)
So getting heat local to the FPU isn't too surprising. There are various things in place to mitigate that, for example, the heat spreader. But it can only absorb heat so fast. The lack of APIC interrupts (e.g. timers) makes this test rather artificial. If I recall correctly OSes send timer interrupts to processors to schedule tasks. So this would have to be something that is beyond an OSes control. Like you'd have to write your own mini-OS or something.
The other part though is you have to keep in mind making processors is not an exact process. My two x85 series opterons probably have slightly different features (e.g. exact alignment) even though they're made from the same design. If I sliced them open and got "my first electron microscope" and looked at them I'd probably be able to measure slight differences. There are other controlled issues (quality of material, chemcials, etc). So that a batch of processors exhibit this problem is concerning but not impossible.
I'll bet you they probably have another test on the QA line now
Tom
... I just got my pair of 285s! ... well fortunately I don't do a lot of FPU work like that. That and I run cpufreq in "ondemand" mode so I don't care about heat...
Tom