Case in point: Which distributions allow me to use ReiserFS filesystems on installation?
SuSE, since 6.3
Well I haven't heard of one of them, so I am going to say a tenative zero.
No comment
This is a problem. If I want to use ReiserFS for all my filesystems (root, usr, etc) I have to install a distribution using ext2, download ReiserFS and patch it into my kernel, make new partitions formatted with ReiserFS, copy everything over, and blow away the ext2 ones.
Admittedly a pain when you have no existing Linux install, but if you already have an installed system you can prepare a kernel before hand with reiserfs not as a module and put it on the installer floppy
1. This effectively reduces the amount of disk space that can be used because you can't resize the partitions (not exactly sure about this, correction?)
Here is your correction. /usr/src/linux/fs/reiserfs/utils/resize_reiserfs It's not perfect. AFAIK it shrinks only.
2. It's a huge hassel to get a journaling filesystem which linux should have in the kernel by now!
I think thats why the original question was asked. reiserfs works, I've been using it for a while. It's debateable whether or not you would want to use it in certain situations, but it _is_ here and it _does_ work. I have to wonder what the holdup with ext3 is.
3. Stock boot CD/Floppies will no longer be able to access the root/usr filesystems because.... ReiserFS isn't in their kernels!
Err.. I think I answered this already.
4. I'd really like to see how you can load a module from a filesystem you can't read. (ReiserFS built as a module loading from a ReiserFS root filesystem, enjoy that chicken and egg)
Simple, don't build it as a module. Or, gasp, keep your / as ext2! (wise-ass mode on) On a properly configured system the root file system is going to be around 500M. It doesn't take an inordinate amount of time to fsck. (w-a off). This reminds me of installing on a system with ATA66.. you need to install on vanilla IDE bus first then patch, edit a pile of config files, move disks around, hope you got all the edits right...
As you can see, this makes using ReiserFS cumbersome at best. Jumping through massive hoops just to get functionality other *nix's have had for years (Journaling Filesystems) is pathetic really.
Jumping through hoops isn't restricted to this one issue, personally, I think a lot of CS types need to take a reality check and tone down the egotism, they aren't so great.
You have to realize, that when you write parts of the kernel or kernel modules, you are part of a community. You need to be able to work with everyone because the end goal is the same: Making Linux a better system.
Sounds good, but talented people are stubborn and inflexible, it gets worse once there is some recognition. Then it's a slippery slope to keep from winding up like Bob Metcalfe. Hubris is never a good thing, I don't care what ESR says.
Could you please tell Viro that? He doesn't seem to want to work with anyone, especially to fix a gaping feature hole. Pretty sad really, when "maintainers" are working to the detriment of Linux.
Well, hopefully we won't be reminiscing in n years how linux peaked at 2.2..
Given a choice, people will use what they think is best. It's not impossible to support more than one platform. There is such a thing as a cross compiler, y'know. Actually, FlightGear is a good example. Some of the developers use MSVC on windows, some use various Unices and everybody runs the same code. There Mac binaries floating around too IIRC.
I don't think the problem is so much with the designers as it is with the clients who buy the designers services. Talk do a html monkey sometime and listen to them say "This new potential client wants a site that looks like these other ones". Buyers that are clueless about the whole thing want flashy glitz because they were impressed by foo.com's homepage and have no idea the whole web thing is supposed to be useful.
TiK, the client of which you speak is available at sourceforge It works well. I've been playing with gabber, a gtk jabber client, thats pretty cool too.
I have seen many boxes compromised. But there are two configurations I've never seen hacked:
1.Redhat w/ latest updates. 2.OpenBSD.
I can believe #2 but #1 is a stretch, RedHat isn't exactly the cream of Linux distros. There's _always_ another hole someplace that didn't get noticed yet. Take a look at the errata page for RH_4.2_, theres been 4 updates so far this year and this release has been around about 4 years!
I'm sure you aren't the only one, but linux _will_ boot off ATA66. I set up a system with a BP-6 mobo and the only thing not on the ATA66 controller is the cdrom.
Yeah, right? I can't beleive some of the shit I see in commercials. Lies! All lies! I have a theory it has to do with the "safety equipment" (ie bike helmets) cabal that has manipulated americans into strapping cleverly disguised mind control devices to the noggins of impressionable young minds....
I took quite a few headers off the old Schwinn and it never hurt me any!
I was thinking a while back that this might be a cool thing to do, say for swap space or something. 72 pin simms are rapidly becoming useless too. I know _I_ have plenty of 4's and 8's taking up space in a drawer. With all the pollutants it takes to make chips, its a waste to not do anything with them.
I'm not really concerned about karma, I don't post often enough to build it up, some topics I avoid because its just swimming against the tide and others I don't feel I would be contributing anything useful. Sometimes I see things at +2 (my usual default) that is debatable if it is appropriate to be there (ie "Hey so and so its that you?" and similarly trivial stuff), no problem there really, but when I drop the threshold down and see lots of good stuff that gets lost in the noise, it gives me a feeling that mebbe some people are taking their moderator status for granted, which makes the whole/. experience a little poorer. If you look at my user info you can see I've been a long time reader, so yes, I do care that things get out of hand sometimes.
But hey, it's a slow day and I got caught up in the moment. FWIW I hear you WRT the AC posting, I was going to do that with my original rant, but I figured, what the hell, somebody had to say it.
Part of the problem is understaffed IT departments that have fairly large budgets and have everything implemented by contractors. There is a _major_, IMHO , misperception that one box that does packet filtering == a proper firewall. I wouldn't necessarily disagree that its better than nothing (aside from a false sense of security != A Good Thing), but to make a car analogy (I know, I know, but thats why they call them "analogies"), a single box "firewall" is like riding in an airbag equipt car and figuring you don't need a seatbelt. You can do all kinds of testing that shows good survivability, but testing isn't the same as production.
Somebody please mdoerate this piece of drive down as overrated?
I did, and it went right back up. I had a nice rant over it. I suppose I could have sent Rob an email, but we should really police ourselves a little better.
I'd just like to note my disgust with the moderators on this comment.
Security is the overriding issue here and Gauntlet is a widely used product. The fact remains that a poor decision was made by NA management that had a detrimental effect on the efficacy of the product, placing a large number of customer (who paid a goodly sum, I might add) at risk. Sum this with the fact that NA has been lax WRT informing their client base of the problem that _they_ (NA management) created by placing marketing concerns over quality. If Glowing Fish makes assumptions about what he assumes/. agenda to be, he is certainly within his rights.
Maybe I should be more steamed with/. over the shortcomings of the moderation system (ie, post early, post often == higher karma), but designing a system for moderation isn't an easy chore.
I can see why the current system was chosen so I won't argue with it, but it really bothers me that many of those who chose to moderate do so with their _own_ agendas instead of trying to be objective.
You can flame me if you want, and I wouldn't be surprised if I got moderated down enough to get my acct yanked over it but, seriously, how the hell can you guys rank this a 5? I knocked off a point for being overrated and two minutes later it's back at the top of the pile. I mean, the poster considers _root_ exploits on a widely used security product not "a major hole", but because he discerns this merely as/. pushing their censorware agenda it goes to the top of the pile?
Moderation was put in place because some people chose to be unruly but the mob mentality that it generates is really a shame, basing it purely on a participation basis really falls short of the ideal.
Just to be clear, I support peoples right to disagree, and I support their right to have an opinion of what is worthy of merit. I'm not saying GlowingFish doesn't have right to be heard or be critical of/., but I am saying I'm disappointed in the behaviour of the majority here.
Mark this post into oblivion if you feel the need to, I feel better after spouting off so I still win.
I blame them both. IMO, nothing exposed to tainted data should be running as root. Particularly on a firewall!
"Firewalls" (really a misnomer when you talk about single box solutions) should have the absolute minimum of accts, and being as services are also a bad idea, system accts must also be minimal.
I don't know the details but according to the article _I_ read, the exploit allowed you to _get_ root access via a modified buffer overflow, so in all likelihood it was a suid program.
I think there would be some agreement if I stated that the policymakers have the power to override any objections the coders might have raised (assuming the were even informed of the bundling beforehand)
I saw a few similar answers to yours and the all left out a _vitally_important_ step. You need to reboot before you build the modules so they can be built under the kernel they are meant for
Damn... now I have to nitpick... On my systems its menuconfig, not menu_config make bzImage will build a kernel but won't install it, it will leave it in the build tree (/usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot specifically (at least for x86 kernels)) It's possible to use this kernel but you need to install it by hand.
# # INSTALL_PATH specifies where to place the updated kernel and system map # images. Uncomment if you want to place them anywhere other than root.
INSTALL_PATH=/boot
Fresh from the tarball sources have INSTALL_PATH commented out.. the default is/
Most distros make boot on seperate partition to get around the 1024 cylinder limitation. IIRC there is a new version of lilo that doesn't have the issue.
I got the impression the Mac person was ignorant WRT PC hardware. I noticed a lot of qualifiers too, ie: "more _popular_GUI_ apps" and some plain falsehoods ie Mac has had USB since day 1 Funny, my old IIcx didn't have it (I know they must have meant since day one of USB) Also, if the Mac GUI os they epitome of usabilty Why are they shitcanning it for OSX?
My experience has been if you think Linux doesn't do something, you didn't investigate it thoroughly. Admittedly this is false sometimes, but somebody is usually working on it.
Slashdot Mirror
Okay, so I don't care what Larry Wall says, hubris _still_ isn't a good thing.
hubris
n : overbearing pride or presumption
Being a pedant isn't so great either.
Case in point: Which distributions allow me to use ReiserFS filesystems on installation?
/usr/src/linux/fs/reiserfs/utils/resize_reiserfs
It's not perfect. AFAIK it shrinks only.
SuSE, since 6.3
Well I haven't heard of one of them, so I am going to say a tenative zero.
No comment
This is a problem. If I want to use ReiserFS for all my filesystems (root, usr, etc) I have to install a distribution using ext2, download ReiserFS and patch it into my kernel, make new partitions formatted with ReiserFS, copy everything over, and blow away the ext2 ones.
Admittedly a pain when you have no existing Linux install, but if you already have an installed system you can prepare a kernel before hand with reiserfs not as a module and put it on the installer floppy
1. This effectively reduces the amount of disk space that can be used because you can't resize the partitions (not exactly sure about this, correction?)
Here is your correction.
2. It's a huge hassel to get a journaling filesystem which linux should have in the kernel by now!
I think thats why the original question was asked. reiserfs works, I've been using it for a while. It's debateable whether or not you would want to use it in certain situations, but it _is_ here and it _does_ work. I have to wonder what the holdup with ext3 is.
3. Stock boot CD/Floppies will no longer be able to access the root/usr filesystems because.... ReiserFS isn't in their kernels!
Err.. I think I answered this already.
4. I'd really like to see how you can load a module from a filesystem you can't read. (ReiserFS built as a module loading from a ReiserFS root filesystem, enjoy that chicken and egg)
Simple, don't build it as a module. Or, gasp, keep your / as ext2! (wise-ass mode on) On a properly configured system the root file system is going to be around 500M. It doesn't take an inordinate amount of time to fsck. (w-a off). This reminds me of installing on a system with ATA66.. you need to install on vanilla IDE bus first then patch, edit a pile of config files, move disks around, hope you got all the edits right...
As you can see, this makes using ReiserFS cumbersome at best. Jumping through massive hoops just to get functionality other *nix's have had for years (Journaling Filesystems) is pathetic really.
Jumping through hoops isn't restricted to this one issue, personally, I think a lot of CS types need to take a reality check and tone down the egotism, they aren't so great.
You have to realize, that when you write parts of the kernel or kernel modules, you are part of a community. You need to be able to work with everyone because the end goal is the same: Making Linux a better system.
Sounds good, but talented people are stubborn and inflexible, it gets worse once there is some recognition. Then it's a slippery slope to keep from winding up like Bob Metcalfe. Hubris is never a good thing, I don't care what ESR says.
Could you please tell Viro that? He doesn't seem to want to work with anyone, especially to fix a gaping feature hole. Pretty sad really, when "maintainers" are working to the detriment of Linux.
Well, hopefully we won't be reminiscing in n years how linux peaked at 2.2..
Given a choice, people will use what they think is best.
It's not impossible to support more than one platform.
There is such a thing as a cross compiler, y'know.
Actually, FlightGear is a good example. Some of the developers use MSVC on windows, some use various Unices and everybody runs the same code. There Mac binaries floating around too IIRC.
Y'know what always struck me as dumb about that, the stores had to adjust for width anyway.
this is why god invented close miking
The reason for the succes for CE is.....
Thats the first time I ever heard anybody claim CE was successful.
Even the pundits refer to it as a flop.
I don't think the problem is so much with the
designers as it is with the clients who buy the
designers services.
Talk do a html monkey sometime and listen to them say
"This new potential client wants a site that looks like
these other ones". Buyers that are clueless about the whole thing want flashy glitz
because they were impressed by foo.com's homepage and have no
idea the whole web thing is supposed to be useful.
TiK, the client of which you speak is available at sourceforge
It works well. I've been playing with gabber, a gtk jabber client, thats pretty cool too.
I have seen many boxes compromised. But there are two configurations I've never seen hacked:
1.Redhat w/ latest updates.
2.OpenBSD.
I can believe #2 but #1 is a stretch, RedHat isn't exactly the cream of Linux distros.
There's _always_ another hole someplace that didn't get noticed yet.
Take a look at the errata page for RH_4.2_,
theres been 4 updates so far this year and this release has been around about 4 years!
Chysler logos are all tape these days, aren't they? Except mebbe on the grill....
I'm sure you aren't the only one, but linux _will_ boot off ATA66. I set up a system with a BP-6 mobo and the only thing not on the ATA66 controller is the cdrom.
Yeah, right? I can't beleive some of the shit I see in commercials. Lies! All lies! I have a theory it has to do with the "safety equipment" (ie bike helmets) cabal that has manipulated americans into strapping cleverly disguised mind control devices to the noggins of impressionable young minds....
I took quite a few headers off the old Schwinn and it never hurt me any!
I was thinking a while back that this might be a cool thing to do, say for swap space or something.
72 pin simms are rapidly becoming useless too. I know _I_ have plenty of 4's and 8's taking up space in a drawer. With all the pollutants it takes to make chips, its a waste to not do anything with them.
I'm not really concerned about karma, I don't post often enough to build it up, some topics I avoid because its just swimming against the tide and others I don't feel I would be contributing anything useful. Sometimes I see things at +2 (my usual default) that is debatable if it is appropriate to be there (ie "Hey so and so its that you?" and similarly trivial stuff), no problem there really, but when I drop the threshold down and see lots of good stuff that gets lost in the noise, it gives me a feeling that mebbe some people are taking their moderator status for granted, which makes the whole /. experience a little poorer.
If you look at my user info you can see I've been a long time reader, so yes, I do care that things get out of hand sometimes.
But hey, it's a slow day and I got caught up in the moment.
FWIW I hear you WRT the AC posting, I was going to do that with my original rant, but I figured, what the hell, somebody had to say it.
post#38 currently marked as redundant...
Redundant, huh? I guess cluefull-ness must be stomped.
hartsock, you are right on the money
Hey, maybe if I bitch enough I can get the automatic bonus point!
Part of the problem is understaffed IT departments that have fairly large budgets and have everything implemented by contractors.
There is a _major_, IMHO , misperception that one box that does packet filtering == a proper firewall. I wouldn't necessarily disagree that its better than nothing (aside from a false sense of security != A Good Thing), but to make a car analogy (I know, I know, but thats why they call them "analogies"), a single box "firewall" is like riding in an airbag equipt car and figuring you don't need a seatbelt.
You can do all kinds of testing that shows good survivability, but testing isn't the same as production.
People need to learn the hard way, I guess.
Somebody please mdoerate this piece of drive down as overrated?
I did, and it went right back up. I had a nice rant over it.
I suppose I could have sent Rob an email, but we should really police ourselves a little better.
I'd just like to note my disgust with the moderators on this comment.
/. agenda to be, he is certainly within his rights.
/. over the shortcomings of the moderation system (ie, post early, post often == higher karma), but designing a system for moderation isn't an easy chore.
/. pushing their censorware agenda it goes to the top of the pile?
/., but I am saying I'm disappointed in the behaviour of the majority here.
Security is the overriding issue here and Gauntlet is a widely used product.
The fact remains that a poor decision was made by NA management that had a detrimental effect on the efficacy of the product, placing a large number of customer (who paid a goodly sum, I might add) at risk.
Sum this with the fact that NA has been lax WRT informing their client base of the problem that _they_ (NA management) created by placing marketing concerns over quality.
If Glowing Fish makes assumptions about what he assumes
Maybe I should be more steamed with
I can see why the current system was chosen so I won't argue with it, but it really bothers me that many of those who chose to moderate do so with their _own_ agendas instead of trying to be objective.
You can flame me if you want, and I wouldn't be surprised if I got moderated down enough to get my acct yanked over it but, seriously, how the hell can you guys rank this a 5? I knocked off a point for being overrated and two minutes later it's back at the top of the pile. I mean, the poster considers _root_ exploits on a widely used security product not "a major hole", but because he discerns this merely as
Moderation was put in place because some people chose to be unruly but the mob mentality that it generates is really a shame, basing it purely on a participation basis really falls short of the ideal.
Just to be clear, I support peoples right to disagree, and I support their right to have an opinion of what is worthy of merit. I'm not saying GlowingFish doesn't have right to be heard or be critical of
Mark this post into oblivion if you feel the need to, I feel better after spouting off so I still win.
I blame them both. IMO, nothing exposed to tainted data should be running as root. Particularly on a firewall!
"Firewalls" (really a misnomer when you talk about single box solutions) should have the absolute minimum of accts, and being as services are also a bad idea, system accts must also be minimal.
I don't know the details but according to the article _I_ read, the exploit allowed you to _get_ root access via a modified buffer overflow, so in all likelihood it was a suid program.
I think there would be some agreement if I stated that the policymakers have the power to override any objections the coders might have raised (assuming the were even informed of the bundling beforehand)
I have been ever since I picked up that copy of Linux Journal (I think!) last fall/winter with 2.4 as the cover-feature.
LOL I was reading something like that yesterday while waiting to get interviewed for an uber-cool linux admin job.
"If Santa was good to you, you have kernel 2.4......"
T'was a January issue of a linux rag, not sure if it was Linux Journal though.
I saw a few similar answers to yours and the all left out a _vitally_important_ step.
You need to reboot before you build the modules so they can be built under the kernel they are meant for
Damn... now I have to nitpick...
On my systems its menuconfig, not menu_config
make bzImage will build a kernel but won't install it, it will leave it in the build tree (/usr/src/linux/arch/i386/boot specifically (at least for x86 kernels))
It's possible to use this kernel but you need to install it by hand.
From the kernel Makefile:
/
#
# INSTALL_PATH specifies where to place the updated kernel and system map
# images. Uncomment if you want to place them anywhere other than root.
INSTALL_PATH=/boot
Fresh from the tarball sources have INSTALL_PATH commented out.. the default is
Most distros make boot on seperate partition to get around the 1024 cylinder limitation. IIRC there is a new version of lilo that doesn't have the issue.
I got the impression the Mac person was ignorant WRT PC hardware.
I noticed a lot of qualifiers too, ie:
"more _popular_GUI_ apps" and some plain falsehoods
ie Mac has had USB since day 1
Funny, my old IIcx didn't have it
(I know they must have meant since day one of USB)
Also, if the Mac GUI os they epitome of usabilty
Why are they shitcanning it for OSX?
My experience has been if you think Linux doesn't do something, you didn't investigate it thoroughly.
Admittedly this is false sometimes, but somebody is usually working on it.
Articles like this are just plain silly.
Darren McGavin
Gavin MacCleod was captain of the LoveBoat
(Actually Murray on Mary Tyler Moore at the time)
What makes you so sure it's really him?
I don't see his PGP key anywhere on the posts.