I see, so in other words free software needs to compromise in order to fit with your view. Bullshit Jack First off if you want proprietary Unix, "sarcasm" I'm sure you can find someone to sell it to you"/sarcasm". Second, if you you have a need for a peice of hardware Thats not supported under Linux and you insist on using Linux, you have _extremely_poor_judgement_. Third, the whole open/proprietary thing is like a stare down contest, you blink, you lose
Also where is it written that it's anybodies god given right to use _any_ of this stuff? You talk about supporting companies that "get it", what _you_ don't seem to get is is that by compromising on issues like this you get the worst outcome of each method.
You're in such a hurry to do their work for them?
What do you give a shit if somebody wants to spend some of their own time writing a driver? You complain its takes developers away from improving existing software. I don't know about the planet you live on, but where I live free software improves every day. Take a look at drivers for emu10k1 chipset soundcards as an example. Then look at a feature comparison. Creative says a release quality proprietary driver is due out "summer 2000". I requested a feature on the open driver and it was implemented in less than two weeks. Let's see a vendor do _that_
How come nobody ever spells it $u$E?
on
SuSE For PPC
·
· Score: 1
On a serious note, if the PPC version has _half_ the applications as the Intel version, it's going going to really help PPC as a platform for linux Both LinuxPPC and Yellowdog are a little light in the desktop apps department compared to versions for Intel.
Why would you recommend a program to a client based solely on what you heard? I mean, you should at least try it yourself first, especially something that you don't have to buy to try.
Thats really not a good way to preserve your credibility.
>Theres a growing awareness among the real Linux community that we
I think you make a valid point there, Bowie. I mean, who is the "Linux Community" exactly? Is it the hackers? The users? Anybody who does business and uses the word Linux?
Y'know everybody has priorities, and as far as I can tell, you don't get to be a CE/IO because your top priority is making the world a better place.
This country is the most religious in the world. Our god is money. Who can afford to be an infidel?
Is trying to use linux for midi. Right now it's just a freaking nightmare.
If you wanna do simply playback its merely a Cmdr Taco in a leotard nightmare.
If you want to do any sequencing it's a Roblimo in spike heels and fishnets nightmare.
Heres a tale of woe for you. I've been buying souncards for 2 years looking for something fully functional. Being a cheap bastard I don't want to pop for an OSS license. A little while back I hear good things about SBLive (Manuel Buender..Fuck you, yer SBLive info is all lies). Anyway, SBLive driver is working good these days but _no_/dev/sequencer. Requests for info on the emu10k1-devel mailing list for unimplemented features results in a "You don't like it use ALSA" response. As far as Alsa goes, the documentation stinks, and while it has some great features, its a big PITA to install, and most importantly the OSS emulation layer isn't perfect. I realize no software is perfect but The OSS API is what _all_ the audio programs that I know of use.
As far as sequncers goes, right now I think my personal favorite program is Brahms...It looks fucking great but it doesn't freekin record. I guess it was more important for the developers to put their ugly faces and an eat me button in. Way to bloat, guys.
Anyway to swing it back around to Jazz..... While it has a lot of nice features it's not pattern oriented! If anybody doesn't see why this is not a good thing, well... make sure you flame me, you'll look real bright. Not to mention its a beautiful example of the wonders of Motif, and I have to wonder why the author hardcoded those nasty colors. While I'm at it, a set of standard transport controls and key bindings would be nice (ie spacebar == pause/continue, enter == start, r == arms a track).
And Jazz is one of the better sequencers for Linux.
Re:(Re)Legitimizing the Mac
on
Rack An iMac
·
· Score: 1
heh..I just helped a mac using friend of mine put together a dual celerey linux box. He went all out on the black components, monitor and evert'ing, got gobs of storage, ram, a matrox G400, sblive platinum (he was very upset the livedrive is beige). It gets used as a router.
Oh well.....
Re:I dreamed of being attacked by an army of SuSE
on
SuSE 6.4 Announced
·
· Score: 1
Exactly. SuSE kix ass for the bandwidth challenge. Plus if you just pick one of the templates you don't have to go through all the packages one at a time. Also I don't mind the english version being released a month later. It gives them a chance to get some updates in.
>A lot of people have said that this was a really 'articulate' article..
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but so be it... I don't think it was a case of being articulate so much as it said some things that needed to be said. A lot of the most vocal "supporters" of free software take a very idealistic view of the whole thing. Well guess what? The world doesn't run on ideals. It appears that many of these same people would like to force their ideals on the world. You say you think the author did an outstanding job of stating the obvious, and I'll agree that much of what he said _was_ obvious, at least to me. But it's news to a lot of people. I have to question the motives of many of the posters I read here. I read comments spouting the same tired rhetoric from 3 years ago, much of it I fell for before I gained the experience to know better... Anyway.... This isn't about improving Linux its about Borland/Inprise making money. This is not a put down, its a statement of fact and IMHO _not_ a bad thing.
First off I'd like to state that I've been using Linux exclusively on my personal machine for 3 years and everytime I have to go near a windows or mac box I want to barf, _however_...
I'd have to agree that linux isn't ready for the desktop. Or rather the average desktop user isn't ready for Linux. It's a blade that cuts both ways. I've given computer newbies preconfigured setups with spectacular results _only_because_ they don't/can't change any setting. This is actually ideal in a business setting, but heres two things to consider for "world domination" that IMHO aren't changing any time soon.
Firstly, linux just isn't appropriate for every task (but what is). Second, not only are people dumb, but they're proud too As an example of the first case, consider using linux for making music. Pre-emptive multitasking just isn't good in that context. "But theres realtime patches" you say Bzzt, you have to a)know about them b)know where/how to get/apply them. Then theres a matter of no good sequencer for midi. Rosegarden? Editor is _weak_, its also not pattern oriented. Jazz/Jazz++?, a little better but you need specialized hardware, close but no cigar. Forget about hard disk recording. SLab? Try to shift a sample by a few or repeat paste. Ecasound? Surely you can't be serious
And as far as the second case goes, people being dumb/proud, go browse the questions at Question Exchange
>If I murder somebody with a rock, I should get >charged with murder, not possession of a rock.
But if you attacked me with it you'd get charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Law enforcement has to stack up as many charges as they can come up with to give them a chance to get a conviction.
The guy that got busted was planning on stealing the companys clients and was using these tools to break into the companys system to cover his tracks.
Honestly,/. is starting to remind me of Jesse Berst from zdnet. "Let's post inflammatory stuff to get the banner ad revenue up."
Yup. Yup. What you say is true. And yes artists can make money off live performance but it depends on one thing. People need to get _out_ and go to shows. There's a very narrow segment of the population that will go see a small time act or indeed even seek out live entertainment on a regular basis. The way it stands now, when people go out they're more concerned with A)getting hammered or B)getting laid neither of which is necessrily a bad thing. Also too, lotta people have similar views WRT music that they do to software. That is to say if they don't know it and nobody told them otherwise, it's gotta suck.
And lets face, it as far as putting a financial hurtin' on either of these organizations, who by the way get their money from _dues_ not royalties, it's like trying to prevent your money from going to AOL or Microsoft, it's just not gonna happen, they're too pervasive.
So remember kiddies, as long as you swallow the pap that gets shoved at you as entertainment, you're part of the problem. And as for you artiste's out there, stop being dumb-asses, don't piss your money away recording demo's so you can get signed and be a millionaire. You might as well play lotto instead. Put your time/effort/money into building a following (and not sucking BTW), then maybe you can have a real career, you know, like that nameless 3rd chair musician that you think is so lame, with the house in the 'burbs and the 2 cars.
Problem here WRT dmesg is Abit _didn't_ write the patch for HPT66 chipset. All they did was apply it. Seems like they are targeting the ignorant (not a put down per se, everybodies ignorant in one way or another).
A lotta people just want to press and go with a minimum of fuss. And its not like it cost Abit much to develop it. What I really want to know is are they going to throw in a copy with every BP6? Thats about the only way I could see them moving a few units. The latest SuSE supports BP6 out of the box FWIW. OTOH This _really_ doesn't help anybody to get a leg up on the whole *nix way of doing things and in fact I think having a distro for particular hardware can end up being somewhat off putting for people that just don't have the tinkering gene. What do you supposed to do when you have 2 pieces of hardware that each have their own distro? My god that would require some research! We can't have that.
before it gets better. A large part of the problem WRT basing economic growth on a vulnerable system is a combination of greed and naivete on the part of those who are not fascinated by the technological details (read PHB's and J.Random Luser).
I have to wonder what will happen if UCITA becomes the law of the land. Does anybody else see the irony of government on the one hand, spending money with an eye towards making things more robust, yet on the other hand removing the onus of liability from those who produce the engines on which the info economy is based?
Great interview though... browsing comments at 2 it almost seemed like 1998 again....
Pray tell, why is it not possible then? It is my understanding that normal cd players need more reflectivity than a CD-RW provides. Thats pretty close to not having enough contrast IMHO.
I'd really like to know if there is another reason.
As for when distributions will use this - I don't expect to see any distribution use ANY of the journalling filing systems this quarter
SuSE 6.3 includes reiserfs support out of the box. FWIW it's included as a module so if you want it on yer root file system you need recompile. It's nice but it doesn't support disk quotas.
Two things come to mind here. Firstly, free software authors tend to be highly conservative WRT making claims about their stuff. An example here would be the dire warnings about frying your monitor when setting up X or this:
NOTE: do not store data you take care about on reiserfs partition. It is quite unstable yet.
from the reiserfs docs. Sounds pretty scary, huh? Proprietary stuff tends to keep the negativity in the EULA where they know its not likely to be read. The documentation, OTOH, will often make claims for features that don't even exist! I don't know about you but when it comes to the marketing materials, I tend to take things with a grain of salt.
I also see the open source failing miserably after it peaks.
The second thing that comes to mind is, by what metric do you judge failure? Every company that is based on open source could fold tomorrow, but that would be a financial failure only, the code would still be extant. There's more to life than having a bigger house or nicer car than your neighbor.
I know this whole thread is kinda offtopic but somebody moderate #64 up.
We have more artists than anyone can think of a use for, so why encourage more of them? And worse more Media Companies and Agents and other parasites who don't provide any value in a world where the means of distribution is in the hands of the people.
He's right, IMHO. There would be a lot less crap music/movies/books if people weren't doing it for the money. Anybody remember Rick Astley? You'll never convince me he had a message other than "gimme money".
I'd like to point out a few things WRT people having the technology to reproduce entertainment materials.
Compare the dollar value of the recording industry before and after the introduction of consumer tape recorders. Now adjust for inflation....
Compare the dollar value of the movie industry before and after the indroduction of the VCR. Now adjust for inflation.
The entertainment industry is a growth industry. I wouldn't expect a big drop in their profits until the earths population is on the decline.
Software is likewise a growth industry. I don't dispute any individual or companys right to license their IP as they see fit, but I do have a problem with passing extraneous legislation.
There are already laws on the books which protect IP. UCITA only serves to further absolve software houses et al from their responsibility to hold up their end of the bargain.
It is not a difficult task to patch/configure/compile/replace a kernel, but the sequence of tasks is rather exactly.
What you state is indeed true, _however_... Most newbies, in the US, at least, run RedHat. RH, like the majority of distros, does not ship stock kernel sources. This can cause some parts of a patch to fail. Not necessarily fatally, but certainly enough to be disquieting to a newbie. I would suggest either downloading the full sources _or_ waiting for RH to release an updated kernel rpm. The former being the preferred method. Patches are a good thing once you have pristine sources to run them on.
Slashdot Mirror
I see, so in other words free software needs to
compromise in order to fit with your view.
Bullshit Jack
First off if you want proprietary Unix, "sarcasm"
I'm sure you can find someone to sell it to you"/sarcasm".
Second, if you you have a need for a peice of hardware
Thats not supported under Linux and you insist on using Linux,
you have _extremely_poor_judgement_.
Third, the whole open/proprietary thing is like a
stare down contest, you blink, you lose
Also where is it written that it's anybodies god given right to use _any_ of this stuff?
You talk about supporting companies that "get it",
what _you_ don't seem to get is is that
by compromising on issues like this you get the worst outcome of each method.
You're in such a hurry to do their work for them?
What do you give a shit if somebody wants to spend
some of their own time writing a driver?
You complain its takes developers away from improving existing software.
I don't know about the planet you live on, but where I live free software improves every day.
Take a look at drivers for emu10k1 chipset soundcards as an example.
Then look at a feature comparison.
Creative says a release quality proprietary driver is due out "summer 2000".
I requested a feature on the open driver
and it was implemented in less than two weeks.
Let's see a vendor do _that_
On a serious note, if the PPC version has _half_
the applications as the Intel version, it's going
going to really help PPC as a platform for linux
Both LinuxPPC and Yellowdog are a little light
in the desktop apps department compared to versions for Intel.
Why would you recommend a program to a client based solely on what you heard? I mean, you should at least try it yourself first, especially something that you don't have to buy to try.
Thats really not a good way to preserve your credibility.
>Theres a growing awareness among the real Linux community that we
I think you make a valid point there, Bowie.
I mean, who is the "Linux Community" exactly?
Is it the hackers? The users? Anybody who does business and uses the word Linux?
Y'know everybody has priorities, and as far
as I can tell, you don't get to be a CE/IO
because your top priority is making the world a better place.
This country is the most religious in the world. Our god is money.
Who can afford to be an infidel?
Is trying to use linux for midi. Right now it's just a freaking nightmare.
/dev/sequencer. Requests for info on the emu10k1-devel mailing list for unimplemented features results in a "You don't like it use ALSA" response.
If you wanna do simply playback its merely a Cmdr Taco in a leotard nightmare.
If you want to do any sequencing it's a Roblimo in spike heels and fishnets nightmare.
Heres a tale of woe for you.
I've been buying souncards for 2 years looking for something fully functional. Being a cheap bastard I don't want to pop for an OSS license. A little while back I hear good things about SBLive (Manuel Buender..Fuck you, yer SBLive info is all lies). Anyway, SBLive driver is working good these days but _no_
As far as Alsa goes, the documentation stinks, and while it has some great features, its a big PITA to install, and most importantly the OSS emulation layer isn't perfect. I realize no software is perfect but The OSS API is what _all_ the audio programs that I know of use.
As far as sequncers goes, right now I think my personal favorite program is Brahms...It looks fucking great but it doesn't freekin record. I guess it was more important for the developers to put their ugly faces and an eat me button in.
Way to bloat, guys.
Anyway to swing it back around to Jazz.....
While it has a lot of nice features it's not pattern oriented! If anybody doesn't see why this is not a good thing, well... make sure you flame me, you'll look real bright. Not to mention its a beautiful example of the wonders of Motif, and I have to wonder why the author hardcoded those nasty colors. While I'm at it, a set of standard transport controls and key bindings would be nice (ie spacebar == pause/continue, enter == start, r == arms a track).
And Jazz is one of the better sequencers for Linux.
heh..I just helped a mac using friend of mine put together a dual celerey linux box. He went all out on the black components, monitor and evert'ing, got gobs of storage, ram, a matrox G400, sblive platinum (he was very upset the livedrive is beige). It gets used as a router.
Oh well.....
Exactly. SuSE kix ass for the bandwidth challenge. Plus if you just pick one of the templates you don't have to go through all the packages one at a time.
Also I don't mind the english version being released a month later. It gives them a chance to get some updates in.
>A lot of people have said that this was a really 'articulate' article..
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but so be it... I don't think it was a case of being articulate so much as it said some things that needed to be said.
A lot of the most vocal "supporters" of free software take a very idealistic view of the whole thing.
Well guess what? The world doesn't run on ideals. It appears that many of these same people would like to force their ideals on the world.
You say you think the author did an outstanding job of stating the obvious, and I'll agree that much of what he said _was_ obvious, at least to me. But it's news to a lot of people. I have to question the motives of many of the posters I read here. I read comments spouting the same tired rhetoric from 3 years ago, much of it I fell for before I gained the experience to know better... Anyway....
This isn't about improving Linux its about Borland/Inprise making money. This is not a put down, its a statement of fact and IMHO _not_ a bad thing.
First off I'd like to state that I've been using
Linux exclusively on my personal machine
for 3 years and everytime I have to go
near a windows or mac box I want to barf, _however_...
I'd have to agree that linux isn't ready for the
desktop. Or rather the average desktop
user isn't ready for Linux. It's a blade that cuts
both ways.
I've given computer newbies preconfigured setups
with spectacular results _only_because_ they
don't/can't change any setting. This is actually
ideal in a business setting, but heres two things
to consider for "world domination" that IMHO aren't changing any time soon.
Firstly, linux just isn't appropriate for every
task (but what is). Second, not only are
people dumb, but they're proud too
As an example of the first case, consider using linux
for making music. Pre-emptive multitasking
just isn't good in that context.
"But theres realtime patches" you say
Bzzt, you have to a)know about them b)know where/how to get/apply them.
Then theres a matter of no good sequencer for midi.
Rosegarden? Editor is _weak_, its also not pattern oriented.
Jazz/Jazz++?, a little better but you need
specialized hardware, close but no cigar.
Forget about hard disk recording. SLab? Try to
shift a sample by a few or repeat paste.
Ecasound? Surely you can't be serious
And as far as the second case goes, people being dumb/proud,
go browse the questions at Question Exchange
>If I murder somebody with a rock, I should get
/. is starting to remind me
>charged with murder, not possession of a rock.
But if you attacked me with it you'd get charged with
assault with a deadly weapon.
Law enforcement has to stack up as many charges as
they can come up with to give them a chance to get a conviction.
The guy that got busted was planning on stealing the companys clients
and was using these tools to break into the
companys system to cover his tracks.
Honestly,
of Jesse Berst from zdnet.
"Let's post inflammatory stuff to get the banner ad revenue up."
Yup. Yup. What you say is true. And yes artists can make money off live performance but it depends on one thing. People need to get _out_ and go to shows. There's a very narrow segment of the population that will go see a small time act or indeed even seek out live entertainment on a regular basis.
The way it stands now, when people go out they're more concerned with A)getting hammered or B)getting laid neither of which is necessrily a bad thing.
Also too, lotta people have similar views WRT music that they do to software. That is to say if they don't know it and nobody told them otherwise, it's gotta suck.
And lets face, it as far as putting a financial hurtin' on either of these organizations, who by the way get their money from _dues_ not royalties, it's like trying to prevent your money from going to AOL or Microsoft, it's just not gonna happen, they're too pervasive.
So remember kiddies, as long as you swallow the pap that gets shoved at you as entertainment, you're part of the problem.
And as for you artiste's out there, stop being dumb-asses, don't piss your money away recording demo's so you can get signed and be a millionaire. You might as well play lotto instead. Put your time/effort/money into building a following (and not sucking BTW), then maybe you can have a real career, you know, like that nameless 3rd chair musician that you think is so lame, with the house in the 'burbs and the 2 cars.
--Bring back Vaudeville!--
Well for one thing, a module for HPT66 chipset isn't going to help you boot off the UDMA66 channels. You need it compiled in.
>I cannot see my mom compiling the latest emu10k
> module and actually inserting it. HUH?
if you were a good son you'd write a script to automate that for her.
Problem here WRT dmesg is Abit _didn't_ write the patch for HPT66 chipset. All they did was apply it. Seems like they are targeting the ignorant (not a put down per se, everybodies ignorant in one way or another).
A lotta people just want to press and go with a minimum of fuss.
And its not like it cost Abit much to develop it.
What I really want to know is are they going to throw
in a copy with every BP6?
Thats about the only way I could see them moving
a few units.
The latest SuSE supports BP6 out of the box FWIW.
OTOH This _really_ doesn't help anybody to get a leg up
on the whole *nix way of doing things and in fact I think having a distro
for particular hardware can end up being somewhat off putting
for people that just don't have the tinkering gene.
What do you supposed to do when you have
2 pieces of hardware that each have their own distro?
My god that would require some research! We can't have that.
before it gets better.
A large part of the problem WRT basing economic growth
on a vulnerable system is a combination of greed and naivete
on the part of those who are not fascinated
by the technological details
(read PHB's and J.Random Luser).
I have to wonder what will happen if UCITA becomes the law of the land.
Does anybody else see the irony of government
on the one hand, spending money with an eye towards making things more robust,
yet on the other hand removing the onus of liability
from those who produce the engines on which
the info economy is based?
Great interview though...
browsing comments at 2 it almost seemed like 1998 again....
Pray tell, why is it not possible then?
It is my understanding that normal cd players
need more reflectivity than a CD-RW provides.
Thats pretty close to not having enough contrast IMHO.
I'd really like to know if there is another reason.
We have to remember that the readership on /. is probably the top-most technically savvy 1%-10% of the online community.
Sarcasm
I'll remember that the next time Natalie Portman pours hot grits down my pants
/Sarcasm
As for when distributions will use this - I don't expect to see any distribution use ANY of the journalling filing systems this quarter
SuSE 6.3 includes reiserfs support out of the box. FWIW it's included as a module so if you want it on yer root file system you need recompile. It's nice but it doesn't support disk quotas.
Two things come to mind here. Firstly, free software authors tend to be highly conservative WRT making claims about their stuff. An example here would be the dire warnings about frying your monitor when setting up X or this:
NOTE: do not store data you take care
about on reiserfs partition. It
is quite unstable yet.
from the reiserfs docs. Sounds pretty scary, huh?
Proprietary stuff tends to keep the negativity in the EULA where they know its not likely to be read.
The documentation, OTOH, will often make claims for features that don't even exist!
I don't know about you but when it comes
to the marketing materials, I tend to take things with a grain of salt.
I also see the open source failing miserably after it peaks.
The second thing that comes to mind is,
by what metric do you judge failure?
Every company that is based on open source could fold tomorrow,
but that would be a financial failure only,
the code would still be extant. There's more to life than
having a bigger house or nicer car than your neighbor.
Err..
Industrial nations = first (free) world
Communist nations = second
Developing nations = third
At least thats what they told me in school.
Of course at the time continental drift was a theory.......
I know this whole thread is kinda offtopic but somebody moderate #64 up.
We have more artists than anyone can think of a use for, so why encourage more of them? And worse more Media Companies and Agents and other parasites who don't provide any value in a world where the means of distribution is in the hands of the people.
He's right, IMHO. There would be a lot less crap music/movies/books if people weren't doing it for the money. Anybody remember Rick Astley? You'll never convince me he had a message other than "gimme money".
I'd like to point out a few things WRT people having the technology to reproduce entertainment materials.
Compare the dollar value of the recording industry before and after the introduction of consumer tape recorders. Now adjust for inflation....
Compare the dollar value of the movie industry before and after the indroduction of the VCR. Now adjust for inflation.
The entertainment industry is a growth industry. I wouldn't expect a big drop in their profits until the earths population is on the decline.
Software is likewise a growth industry. I don't dispute any individual or companys right to license their IP as they see fit, but I do have a problem with passing extraneous legislation.
There are already laws on the books which protect IP. UCITA only serves to further absolve software houses et al from their responsibility to hold up their end of the bargain.
It is not a difficult task to patch/configure/compile/replace a kernel, but the sequence of tasks is rather exactly.
What you state is indeed true, _however_...
Most newbies, in the US, at least, run RedHat.
RH, like the majority of distros, does not ship
stock kernel sources.
This can cause some parts of a patch to fail.
Not necessarily fatally, but certainly enough
to be disquieting to a newbie. I would suggest
either downloading the full sources _or_
waiting for RH to release an updated kernel rpm.
The former being the preferred method.
Patches are a good thing once you have
pristine sources to run them on.
Yes I know it has a TNT2 chipset