i think that's the main problem with it. it's easily obfuscatable, so maintaining it is difficult. i'd like to see it adopted more widely, but i don't think it will be.
Agreed... i'm thinking about purchasing a VAIO PCG-F680 or F690 model. Not quite as nice as a decked out Thinkpad T21, but also $1000 cheaper for the same spec.
Toshibas are total ass, even their high-end corporate laptops. The Tecra 8100, current top of the line, has no proper linux driver support and freezes HARD in Ghost Enterprise. Truly a pain in the ass to deploy large numbers of them for an enterprise.
when the wheelchair guy was fucking with the bad guy's radios (in the second episode, i think), the command he used was most definatly a standard-ish unix commandline of some kind. other then that, though, i dunno... heh. i watch dark angel in divx, over at the house of a friend who has a 21 inch monitor. aww yea.;)
i'm just not sure where the function is or what its named...;p but there is a way, and i'm fairly sure its part of the standard python libraries. the people on #python either don't know either, or arn't telling me anything... so it goes.
absurd dipshits abjectly selling themselves for status in their packs like the pathetic primates they are, or home recording enthusiast-types? (teehee...)
"if the ID3 spec was extended to store an unlimited amount of data encoded
as XML, right inside the MP3 file, one of the many cool things you could
store is a digital signature. Note that this does not mean that the files
are encrypted. They simply have a digital signature appended onto the end
of them which can only have been created by a certain private key. Given
the corresponding public key, which you need anyway to validate the
signature, you can now have cryptographically secure voluntary transactions
with the person who signed the file."
is that not fucking cool or what? ideally, i'd like to see this built into the ogg vorbis codec (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/ -- an open codec to mp3 obsolete, baby) right its inception. goddamn, we could actually yank the rug out from under the mpaa, the riaa, and all the other motherfuckers who are trying to achieve complete control over the means of distribution!
please, i beg of you, spread the memes! as a semi-serious musician, and a semi-serious cypherpunk who thinks that patterns can never be property (but that making music is a service), i think that the tipster protocol (or an fda-approved substitute;) ) is exactly what the world needs with respect to the current "starving artists vs. record companies vs. incredible ease of distribution" digital music debate.
the demonization of creativity you speak of is, i think, an odd form of adaptation itself - a counter-adaptation of sorts. those who cannot adapt to x adapt to those who can adapt to x, if they can. the status quo is displaying an immune reaction... not that it can protect itself. freedom is a virus (i mean that in at least 4 ways), humanity is infected, and the immune system is being subverted as we speak. we are the carriers; you are especially contagious. remember, the difference between a disease and a cure is purely aesthetic, as are the lines between systems and metasystems. the "societal change as biological war in its purest form" metaphor is, i think, very applicable here.
i'm not voting for harry browne because, well, nader has a change in hades. so yea, vote nader, because, at the very least, its a protest vote. at the very most, he gets elected... and then life gets more interesting.
You obviously did not read my post with the care it merited.
baaaahahaha... did it merit more care? aw; i'm so sorry. i didn't notice./me hangs head in shame... wow. you are truly an arrogant prick.
]]][i (sayke) said] however, in mandrin, a commonly used idiom remarkably resembles the american-english personal-worth-as-money idiom. [[[
Which would only be relevant as a counterargument if I had claimed that the US is materialistic because of the idiom. Go, back and read, point out where I said that.
actually, you said "This is a truly sickening quote, and symptomatic of what is wrong with the US." mandrin uses a similar idiom; is it symptomatic of what is wrong with china, too? in order to be consistant, you must claim that it is. do you do so? that is quite relevent. "materialism being caused by idioms" has nothing to do with this, and i never said or implied that it did.
You should hang out with your friends because you care for them, even if they are ocassionally "boring" or "useless". Suppose your friend was unemployed, was passing really bad times, and is reallu depressed, thus no fun at all. Under your logic, one would abandon him.
geez us key riest... AND YOU SHOULD HANG OUT WITH YOUR FRIENDS BECAUSE [insert arbitrary reason here]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#&$@#*$@*@#*@* lose the command tense, dipstick. people stop paying attention to you when you start telling them to do things; especially when you don't tell them why they should.
and where did you get this "ocassionally boring or useless" crap? do you think i have no tolerance for human... humanity? do you really think i completely ignore the long-term end of things? shit, man, if someone's my friend, they are interesting. if they were not, they would not be my friend. when it seems that a person has stopped being interesting, they stop being my friend. (what makes a person interesting to me, is, of course, a pretty fuzzy area) you sound like you've never had a friend who is not your friend anymore. i doubt that's the case. have you never been friends with someone who later turned into an asshole? can you concieve of it happening? shit, man, here's a mantra for ya: "NO LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL. 'UNCONDITIONAL LOVE' A CONTRADICTION IN TERMS!" repeat that every morning for the rest of your life. oh, and read "the moral animal" by robert somebody. if a good, hard, dose of evolutionary psych doesn't kick your idealistic ass into a more pragmatic shape, there's no hope for ya.;)
I obviously know more about Ayn Rand than you do, as this exchange does. You need to break out of that "objectivist" religion. It only ends up emotionally deforming people.
WHAT!!!? please read your first sentance. now read it again. it seems you did not quite write your post "with the care it merited." har. and, fyi, i'm not really much of an objectivist. i think some people take that waaaaay too far. however, i think there are some useful tidbits to be gleaned for ayn rand's writing. and, i think that perhaps the world would be a better place if more people were "emotionally deformed."
]]][i (sayke) said] as for me - nothing is worth more then me, to me, because my existance is a necessary precondition for the existance of all forms of value. i'll never put my life on the line for anyone, if it can be at all avoided. [[[
You are a truly sickening person. Change your ways, or you'll die lonely after living a really meaningless life.
shrug. i doubt i'll die lonely. i'm surrounded by interesting friends! true, finding people i dig can be a challenge in some ways, but ya know, it's always just kinda happened. so much for being lonely... and dying? baaaah. i'm not going to die of old age; for damn sure. telemerase is the shit...
and what part of my above decleration is so sickening to you? the part where i said "my existance is a necessary precondition for the existance of all forms of value"? or the part where i said "i'll never put my life on the line for anyone, if it can be at all avoided"? i dunno about you, but i value my continued existance, and i plan to make damn sure i don't go away.
Yeah, you certainly don't seem to be the economically sophisticated type, do you?
because i'm frugal, and don't make unneeded expenditures, and recognize that money is not an end in and of itself, i'm economically unsophisticated!? wtf!!!? support your assertions, are else stfu. or, just stfu. that would be fine too.
Your reading comprehension and reasoning skills must be really fucked up from all that Rand. Where did I attack the people of the US in general? I attacked the culture of the US. These are very different things.
in case you were unaware, the culture of a country is a function of its population. it is really impossible to attack one without attacking the other...
If you study several languages, you might realize something: it is US English that originated that vile expression "Person X is worth Y", where Y is some amount of money. In Spanish, French, or German, there is no such expression: you have to say "Person X has Y". You can say that a person is worth a lot, but that means that he/she is a great person, and has no monitary implications.
however, in mandrin, a commonly used idiom remarkably resembles the american-english personal-worth-as-money idiom. FUCKIN MATERIALISTIC CHINESE!!!*!@(#*!@#! THEY NEED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE STUFF THAT REALLY MATTERS!!!!!*!@#$*@#p&% (translated: "they need to get in touch with the stuff that I THINK really matters...")
This is deeply symptomatic of how shallow and materialistic the US has become; people are valued exactly by how much they own. What they do with their lives, their talents, the experiences they have had, their insight into life, the world, their relations with others, these are all set aside.
shrug. all things except me are tools, right? and other people are things, right? what do i use my friends for? company! dissolution of boredom! devils advocates! emotional support! advice! and yes, resource trading/sharing/etc... i wouldn't hang out with my friends if they were boring/useless. do you have an ethical problem with this?
unlike some people, i don't pretend to be unselfish. this has some interesting side effects - for example: i think that making the world a better place is one of the most selfish things anyone can do. this does not make it bad. go read some ayn rand.:p
The other truly sickening thing about this quote is that we have a child saying that she is worth more than her own parents. WTF? This is so self evidently sick, that I find it tough to come up with words to denounce it without sounding too obvious. I mean, if one has had caring parents that worked hard to give you a life as good as they could, how could one think oneself any more than they are?
once again, shrug. here's a quick test of personal worth for ya: who would you die for? would you die for your parents? if so, they are worth more then you, to you. as for me - nothing is worth more then me, to me, because my existance is a necessary precondition for the existance of all forms of value. i'll never put my life on the line for anyone, if it can be at all avoided. go read catch-22...
The worship of money is the great vice of the US, which costs lives daily all over the world. Please see this fact; stop that madness, that meaningless way of life.
speak for yourself, or speak not at all. i happen to live in the united states, and i think that money is a very useful tool, and nothing more. i live very efficiently in that regard, and i minimize my expenses in just about every way possible. i recycle, i wear secondhand clothes almost exclusively (but not undies or socks;p ), i use public transportion exclusively (i don't even have a car; the cost-benefit equation came down against it in my case), etc...
so yea. shut the hell up:p and don't use a little idiom as an excuse to lambast the population of an entire country.
i dig what your describing. it reeks of flexibility and elegance;) hm... it sounds very much like it could be taken all the way down to the kernel level. now that i think about it, elate (http://www.tao-group.com/2/tao/index.html ) seems to have at least started on a pretty low level object oriented os, but, well, they are quite closed-source, so thats that... then, of course, there's HURD (http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/hurd.ht ml) which you probably know about already... they seem to be coming along. anyway, thats not what you were talking about, right? even if you were, i say we limit this discussion to the GUI problem domain for now... didja read up on berlin? that sounds, more or less, like what your describing:
everything is an object (limited by the fact that berlin is a GUI, so no Integer type classes, but thats to be expected in this problem domain), check.
the system is unified in the manner you speak of, check.
base classes don't really have to do with this, so no check on that.
i don't know about berlin having a CodeBlock object, and the http://www.berlin-consortium.org/ site appears to be currently down... (they were up yesterday, dammit!) but it seems like a CodeBlock object (or something close enough for jazz) would be damn good to have; necessary, even. hmmmm... i do remember something about how because of the way berlin uses CORBA, programmers are not restricted to one language in their dealings with berlin objects. that sounds close to what you describe. too bad the site is down. heh. i don't know enough about berlin to give this a checkmark or not.
hmmmm... upon contemplation, it seems to me that there could be a very natural correlation between your pure object-oriented system and plan 9's everything-a-file design spec, if one were to take it beyond the GUI problem domain and into the OS/kernel problem domain...
and i have nothing whatsoever against object manipulation being done visually. shrug. if people dig it, let em. it could be kinda cool looking, although it would most likely end up as a cheesy attempted-gibsonish pile o' shit... aw well. we all know that people will find themselves irresistably drawn back to the command line from whence they came;)
oh yea: you said "The possibility of a "language that's not a language" isn't meant to turn users into programmers---something not likely to happen"... i gotta disagree with ya there... i think that, as more and more people use open operating systems, the urge to try to change things will take its toll, and the user/programmer distenction will began to grow fuzzier... at least, thats a naive hope of mine:p
I'm not sure what dns2reverse.pl is, but I have not said or implied that textual input is in any way dead, obsolete, unnecessary, outmoded, outdated, or even less important. The opposite is true. With a proper object-relational system, you can bring textual commands to a new height. A "natural language" like frontend beside a GUI might even be the best and most useful thing for both experienced users and new users alike.
nooooooooooooo! not nautral language! geesh. COBAL tried that, and we all know where that went... how about a scripting language frontend beside the GUI? or even an actual language, like, for instance, python? (i dig python very much. heh) a good scripting language can be way more powerful then nautral language because it can be targeted to a specific problem domain...
what i really wanna see is a commandline widget integrated into the wallpaper of my gui... or, rather, a commandline widget as a semi-transperent layer above my wallpaper. while not revolutionary, that would be a decent start in the right direction.
otherwise, though, i dig everything you said. you know about the berlin project, right? if not, check out http://www.berlin-consortium.org... it could be really, really neat. i'm going to start actively contributing code to it in the fall, i promise...
[i think the word you wanted there was "tripe"... and your point 1 is a completly unsupported assertion. anarchist? yea, leaning that way... but tripe? support your position or go away... and do you actually think that an action is wrong simply because its a crime? gee zus key riest...]
Go look up the dictionary for "trite", instead of twisting my posts because you can't understand the word.
um... i'm quite familier with the definition of trite, man... your really working yourself into a hole there. the sentance you wrote was "anarchist trite", which, in case you were unaware, is of the form adjective-adjective. its like saying "tall green." that is pathetic, gramatically, which is why i gave you the benifit of the doubt and assumed the typo "anarchist tripe", which would have made perfect sense, in the relevent context; unlike what you actually wrote. anyway... on to the point.
[oh, but it does. thats the problem with "intellectual property." anyone can just trample all over (most of) it! (i make an exception for true well-kept trade secrets, etc...) here's a USEFUL definition of property for ya to chew on: "your property is whatever you can prevent other people from using." you don't have to like it, but really, its a situational given. if you disagree, state your reasoning.]
Here's a clue for you - just because you can definite the word "property", it doesn't mean that intellectual property means the same thing, but with intellectual ideas. Copyright laws in America (and most of the countries) give creators of intellectual property rights to do whatever they want with their creations. According to your twisted definition, I can trample all over GPL if I want.
"definite the word "property""? your first sentance is unparsable. is english your second language? thats an honest question. but back to the point: you *can* trample all over the gpl if you wan't. its quite doable...! china does it all the time! of course, if you do it flagrently enough, people might *try* to make you stop, but that only illustrates my point. thus the problem with "intellectual property": is it really yours if you can't control what people do with it? of course not. ownership of x is a property of the agent with control over x.
i asked you to state your reasoning if you disagreed with the statement "your property is whatever you can prevent other people from using." you disagree, but i'm not seeing any resoning supporting the disagreement. so how, exactly, can someone have as property that which they have no control over? and... you didn't answer my first question: "do you actually think that an action is wrong simply because its a crime?" cmon, kiddo, answer up. i dare ya.
I guess I shouldn't even be responding to a flamebait like you, but I'm looking for a place to vent my bad mood.
[hey man, whatever works for ya... but now why exactly was my post flamebait? if you called it a flame, ok, i could almost see that; it comes with the rhetorical territory... but flamebait?]
1) anarchist trite.
[i think the word you wanted there was "tripe"... and your point 1 is a completly unsupported assertion. anarchist? yea, leaning that way... but tripe? support your position or go away... and do you actually think that an action is wrong simply because its a crime? gee zus key riest...]
2) no. If you have intellectual property, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it. Just because some/. zealot doesn't agree with it doesn't mean he can trample all over your IP.
[oh, but it does. thats the problem with "intellectual property." anyone can just trample all over (most of) it! (i make an exception for true well-kept trade secrets, etc...) here's a USEFUL definition of property for ya to chew on: "your property is whatever you can prevent other people from using." you don't have to like it, but really, its a situational given. if you disagree, state your reasoning.]
3) but certainly some shouting moron in all caps is definitely one.
[so do you still think mr. slippery is a zealot or not? you called him one earlier, and i disagreed, and in the above 3) you try to change the subject... aw well. fuckit. it doesn't really matter. and no, i'm not a zealot (about this) because i really don't feel very stronly about the "intellectual property" issue. hell, i think "intellectual property" is an oxymoron. that you mistook my rhetorical style for strong feelings is your problem. shrug...]
4) typical swearing dumbass.
[you didn't answer the question in had in my point 4). ya see, there's a some differences in the way we post: i ask questions, or i support my opinions. you spout unsupported assertions like "anarchist trite" (har...) and "If you have intellectual property, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it." not only that, but when you get mocked for it, you add a little "Moderate at will" clause at the end of your post? what are the moderators going to do, *not* moderate at will? ya dipshit...]
5) stop shouting, it's rude. And you're insulting Mr. Slippery to consider your post even remotely similar to his. At least his showed that it wasn't written by a moron.
[d00d... its rhetoric. if your actually offended by it, then hey, thats your problem. i am not responsible for your internal emotional state. and as to your last sentance... is mr. slippery both a zealot, and a non-moron? be consistant in your attempted insults, foo]
i was about to reply to "absolutely disguisting" post (by frac) but mr. slippery beat me to it. aw well... here goes nothing... what frac does not seem to get (among other things pointed out by mr. slippery, above) is that:
1) that an action is a crime does not necessarily imply that the action is wrong
2) "if you made more valuble intellectual property like metallica, you would think unrestricted copying is wrong too" is a *really* shitty argument (my system of ethics is not a function of how much money i have or how i got it)
3) that someone who posts elegantly stated opinions that differ from your own is not necessarily a zealot
4) that ratting (or even saying your going to rat, rhetorically) to the riaa about irc mp3 leeches "just to piss you zealots off" makes him look like a fucking idiot. even assuming zealots, what good would pissing em off do? none. and if the "pissing off the zealots" bit was rhetorical, what purpose did it serve, other then to declare to the world that "I, FRAC, AM A SHORTSIGHTED VENGEFUL IDIOT, WHO IS COMPLETLY INCAPABLE OF MAKING WELL-REASONED ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF MY OPINIONS!!!"...?
cmon, frac, say it with me: "THERE ARE NO "NAUTRAL" RIGHTS; "PROPTERTY" IS A CONCEPT IN OUR HEADS THAT EXISTS NOT BECAUSE IT IS A UNIVERSAL ONTOLOGICAL PRIMATIVE OR AN EXPRESSION OF A UNIVERSAL MORAL RIGHT, BUT BECAUSE IT WORKS WELL IN MANY PROBLEM DOMAINS, AND SO IS AN EMERGANT PROPERTY THEREOF. WHEN THE CONCEPT "PROPERTY" DOES NOT WORK IN A PROBLEM DOMAIN, IT SHOULD NOT BE APPLIED TO THAT PROBLEM DOMAIN! THE RELM OF INFORMATION IS ONE SUCH PROBLEM DOMAIN!"
erm. feast your eyes upon the wonder that is berlin. and i quote: "Berlin is a windowing system being actively developed by members of the free software community. Its cornerstone is that of location transparency and language independence (accomplished with CORBA). Berlin's features include a multilingual text rendering system, a set of extensible user interface components residing in-process with the display server, an advanced imaging model with strong support for hardware acceleration, and a persistent (centralized) user-preferences database."
it has been often bitched that linux, and open software in general, has jack shit for innovation in the user interface department. i say nuff o dat, and i hereby make a motion to go where no windowing system has gone before, etc etc etc... of course, it needs coders. get busy, ya lazy evercrackheads, and ye, in the corner, oh wretched ut whuppers of ass, arise! produce cool shit!
berlin owns ya. it has the potential to beat down os-x with jackie-chan-style grace. down with x! all hail the new windowing thingy, berlin!
erm. my opinion of blizzard has changed significantly in the last ten seconds. geez us key reist... blizzard, stooping to the level of the etoys goons? wtf. i suppose that just goes to show ya not to assume stuff about companies just because they happen to make spiffy games.
this is an ascension war! read the vinge paper and gnash your teeth or whatever, but don't just sit on your ass...
the subject line pretty well covers it. ive got some meat beat manifesto, and thats great stuff, so im really curious about what else is out there along those lines. lessee... my to-obtain list right now (i know about and plan to obtain more stuff by these bands) has some delerium, crystal method, sneakerpimps, massive attack, portishead, tool, rage against the machine, deftones, nin, frontline assembly, skinny puppy, squarepusher, aphex twin, and meat beat manifesto...
so thats what i know about so far; recommending any of the above wouldnt help me much;) but im very curious about what else is out there in the way of good drum n bass stuff...
but shit, our gov has done a pathetic job of managing the dough we give it. i dont know how much the national debt is up to now, but last time i heard it was 1.1 trillion, and that was a while ago. does this debt ever go down? no. therefore the government is losing money at a prodigious rate. if this (the united states) was a company, the management (the gov) would have long ago lost funding from the stockholders (us taxpayer types) and ceased to exist as a coporate entity...
but, tragically, the gov doesnt really have any external competition. we stockholders dont really have the option of buying somebody elses stock. we can vote for to determine who gets to be on the board of directors, so to speak, but we really cant sell our stock or anything. aw well, at least ive got a vote. maybe we can vote in some freethinking people to one of the boards of directors, in the hope that the stockholders get some of their power back...
note: when i say "get their power back", dont think im getting all nostalgic on ya. i know that when the constitution was written, only 9% of the people could vote... so it was never perfect.
"eris is my current goddess... shes a figment of my imagination, and i only pretend to worship her, but at least i admit it when my gods are make believe and my worship is a facade..."
is the use of antibiotics == murder? is ending the test of a complex neural network == murder? wtf. just because an embryo will be human (probably; sooner or later) doesnt mean it should be treated as one now. a brick, givin the proper tweaking, can become human... that we havnt quite figured how to do it just yet is beside the point.
i think your one of those ppl who believes human life begans at conception; as in, thats when a human gets a soul. what a crock. twins seperate long after conception... does that mean they share souls? if one goes to hell, does that mean the other is likewise doomed?
and what about, say, stem cells? we dont need true conception to do all kinds of interisting things with those. if we grow stem cells in a test tube, does it have a soul? what about more speciallized stuff... skin cells? or fingernails? do fingernails and skin cells have parts of the soul in them?
i hope your starting to see the absurdity of your point of view. if the body is somehow attached to a soul, what part of the body is attached to it? if you say "all of it", then cutting a fingernail is "killing" parts of yourself... and if you say "some of it", well, then what part == "some"? would you be like descartes, and say its the pineal eye? hah...
read some philosophy. stop foolishly "believing". do some peyote. squeegee out your third eye and come back to me. next.
i think both 'code magi' and 'code poet' both capture important aspects of programming rarely understood by nonprogrammers... 'code poet' captures the aesthetic value of code, which (i hope) when used might work towards dispelling the notion that programming is dry and boring. ive gotten some truly amazed looks from ppl when i say that i code for fun, and that ill gladly spend spare time doing it... 'code magi' (or mage; i just think magi sounds neater =) captures some of alchemical mystique of playing with powerful toys very few ppl really understand... see the technopaganism thread, and the 'myth, magik + mysticism' book review for some really good stuff on this...
thats a beautiful way of implying the aesthetic value of code... nonprogrammers rarely grok this, and i think that "coding is dry and boring" is one of the more distructive misconceptions that could possible be held. ok, so not as distructive as "my perceptions accurately reflect reality" or "my god can kick your gods ass", but i think you get the idea =)
yes, this is from an aol account cuz i use it for my mail still; dont kill me please,
yea, i regret homeschooling, but thats mostly because my parents/teachers sucked. their motavations were basicly religious, and untill i figured out that that was a crock of shit and why, existance wasnt valueable. i was homeschooled untill my freshman year in hs, at which point i was inserted into the gaping maw of the public school system. i was not prepared to deal with this. my social skills were rudementry at best. in retrospect, i think the ideal situation would have been for me to be homeschooled till, say, 6th grade, at which point i would have started taking a few classes in more conventional environnments, if only to get the hang of efficiently interacting with groups/herds of people...
Slashdot Mirror
you make slashdot suck considerably less.
Agreed... i'm thinking about purchasing a VAIO PCG-F680 or F690 model. Not quite as nice as a decked out Thinkpad T21, but also $1000 cheaper for the same spec.
Toshibas are total ass, even their high-end corporate laptops. The Tecra 8100, current top of the line, has no proper linux driver support and freezes HARD in Ghost Enterprise. Truly a pain in the ass to deploy large numbers of them for an enterprise.
i'm just not sure where the function is or what its named... ;p but there is a way, and i'm fairly sure its part of the standard python libraries. the people on #python either don't know either, or arn't telling me anything... so it goes.
...
absurd dipshits abjectly selling themselves for status in their packs like the pathetic primates they are, or home recording enthusiast-types? (teehee...)
"if the ID3 spec was extended to store an unlimited amount of data encoded as XML, right inside the MP3 file, one of the many cool things you could store is a digital signature. Note that this does not mean that the files are encrypted. They simply have a digital signature appended onto the end of them which can only have been created by a certain private key. Given the corresponding public key, which you need anyway to validate the signature, you can now have cryptographically secure voluntary transactions with the person who signed the file."
is that not fucking cool or what? ideally, i'd like to see this built into the ogg vorbis codec (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/ -- an open codec to mp3 obsolete, baby) right its inception. goddamn, we could actually yank the rug out from under the mpaa, the riaa, and all the other motherfuckers who are trying to achieve complete control over the means of distribution!
please, i beg of you, spread the memes! as a semi-serious musician, and a semi-serious cypherpunk who thinks that patterns can never be property (but that making music is a service), i think that the tipster protocol (or an fda-approved substitute ;) ) is exactly what the world needs with respect to the current "starving artists vs. record companies vs. incredible ease of distribution" digital music debate.
the demonization of creativity you speak of is, i think, an odd form of adaptation itself - a counter-adaptation of sorts. those who cannot adapt to x adapt to those who can adapt to x, if they can. the status quo is displaying an immune reaction... not that it can protect itself. freedom is a virus (i mean that in at least 4 ways), humanity is infected, and the immune system is being subverted as we speak. we are the carriers; you are especially contagious. remember, the difference between a disease and a cure is purely aesthetic, as are the lines between systems and metasystems. the "societal change as biological war in its purest form" metaphor is, i think, very applicable here.
best of luck to ya, man...
i'm not voting for harry browne because, well, nader has a change in hades. so yea, vote nader, because, at the very least, its a protest vote. at the very most, he gets elected... and then life gets more interesting.
baaaahahaha... did it merit more care? aw; i'm so sorry. i didn't notice. /me hangs head in shame... wow. you are truly an arrogant prick.
]]][i (sayke) said] however, in mandrin, a commonly used idiom remarkably resembles the american-english personal-worth-as-money idiom. [[[
Which would only be relevant as a counterargument if I had claimed that the US is materialistic because of the idiom. Go, back and read, point out where I said that.
actually, you said "This is a truly sickening quote, and symptomatic of what is wrong with the US." mandrin uses a similar idiom; is it symptomatic of what is wrong with china, too? in order to be consistant, you must claim that it is. do you do so? that is quite relevent. "materialism being caused by idioms" has nothing to do with this, and i never said or implied that it did.
You should hang out with your friends because you care for them, even if they are ocassionally "boring" or "useless". Suppose your friend was unemployed, was passing really bad times, and is reallu depressed, thus no fun at all. Under your logic, one would abandon him.
geez us key riest... AND YOU SHOULD HANG OUT WITH YOUR FRIENDS BECAUSE [insert arbitrary reason here]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&#&$@#*$@*@#*@* lose the command tense, dipstick. people stop paying attention to you when you start telling them to do things; especially when you don't tell them why they should.
and where did you get this "ocassionally boring or useless" crap? do you think i have no tolerance for human... humanity? do you really think i completely ignore the long-term end of things? shit, man, if someone's my friend, they are interesting. if they were not, they would not be my friend. when it seems that a person has stopped being interesting, they stop being my friend. (what makes a person interesting to me, is, of course, a pretty fuzzy area) you sound like you've never had a friend who is not your friend anymore. i doubt that's the case. have you never been friends with someone who later turned into an asshole? can you concieve of it happening? shit, man, here's a mantra for ya: "NO LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL. 'UNCONDITIONAL LOVE' A CONTRADICTION IN TERMS!" repeat that every morning for the rest of your life. oh, and read "the moral animal" by robert somebody. if a good, hard, dose of evolutionary psych doesn't kick your idealistic ass into a more pragmatic shape, there's no hope for ya. ;)
I obviously know more about Ayn Rand than you do, as this exchange does. You need to break out of that "objectivist" religion. It only ends up emotionally deforming people.
WHAT!!!? please read your first sentance. now read it again. it seems you did not quite write your post "with the care it merited." har. and, fyi, i'm not really much of an objectivist. i think some people take that waaaaay too far. however, i think there are some useful tidbits to be gleaned for ayn rand's writing. and, i think that perhaps the world would be a better place if more people were "emotionally deformed."
]]][i (sayke) said] as for me - nothing is worth more then me, to me, because my existance is a necessary precondition for the existance of all forms of value. i'll never put my life on the line for anyone, if it can be at all avoided. [[[
You are a truly sickening person. Change your ways, or you'll die lonely after living a really meaningless life.
shrug. i doubt i'll die lonely. i'm surrounded by interesting friends! true, finding people i dig can be a challenge in some ways, but ya know, it's always just kinda happened. so much for being lonely... and dying? baaaah. i'm not going to die of old age; for damn sure. telemerase is the shit...
and what part of my above decleration is so sickening to you? the part where i said "my existance is a necessary precondition for the existance of all forms of value"? or the part where i said "i'll never put my life on the line for anyone, if it can be at all avoided"? i dunno about you, but i value my continued existance, and i plan to make damn sure i don't go away.
Yeah, you certainly don't seem to be the economically sophisticated type, do you?
because i'm frugal, and don't make unneeded expenditures, and recognize that money is not an end in and of itself, i'm economically unsophisticated!? wtf!!!? support your assertions, are else stfu. or, just stfu. that would be fine too.
Your reading comprehension and reasoning skills must be really fucked up from all that Rand. Where did I attack the people of the US in general? I attacked the culture of the US. These are very different things.
in case you were unaware, the culture of a country is a function of its population. it is really impossible to attack one without attacking the other...
If you study several languages, you might realize something: it is US English that originated that vile expression "Person X is worth Y", where Y is some amount of money. In Spanish, French, or German, there is no such expression: you have to say "Person X has Y". You can say that a person is worth a lot, but that means that he/she is a great person, and has no monitary implications.
however, in mandrin, a commonly used idiom remarkably resembles the american-english personal-worth-as-money idiom. FUCKIN MATERIALISTIC CHINESE!!!*!@(#*!@#! THEY NEED TO GET IN TOUCH WITH THE STUFF THAT REALLY MATTERS!!!!!*!@#$*@#p&% (translated: "they need to get in touch with the stuff that I THINK really matters...")
This is deeply symptomatic of how shallow and materialistic the US has become; people are valued exactly by how much they own. What they do with their lives, their talents, the experiences they have had, their insight into life, the world, their relations with others, these are all set aside.
shrug. all things except me are tools, right? and other people are things, right? what do i use my friends for? company! dissolution of boredom! devils advocates! emotional support! advice! and yes, resource trading/sharing/etc... i wouldn't hang out with my friends if they were boring/useless. do you have an ethical problem with this?
unlike some people, i don't pretend to be unselfish. this has some interesting side effects - for example: i think that making the world a better place is one of the most selfish things anyone can do. this does not make it bad. go read some ayn rand. :p
The other truly sickening thing about this quote is that we have a child saying that she is worth more than her own parents. WTF? This is so self evidently sick, that I find it tough to come up with words to denounce it without sounding too obvious. I mean, if one has had caring parents that worked hard to give you a life as good as they could, how could one think oneself any more than they are?
once again, shrug. here's a quick test of personal worth for ya: who would you die for? would you die for your parents? if so, they are worth more then you, to you. as for me - nothing is worth more then me, to me, because my existance is a necessary precondition for the existance of all forms of value. i'll never put my life on the line for anyone, if it can be at all avoided. go read catch-22...
The worship of money is the great vice of the US, which costs lives daily all over the world. Please see this fact; stop that madness, that meaningless way of life.
speak for yourself, or speak not at all. i happen to live in the united states, and i think that money is a very useful tool, and nothing more. i live very efficiently in that regard, and i minimize my expenses in just about every way possible. i recycle, i wear secondhand clothes almost exclusively (but not undies or socks ;p ), i use public transportion exclusively (i don't even have a car; the cost-benefit equation came down against it in my case), etc...
so yea. shut the hell up :p and don't use a little idiom as an excuse to lambast the population of an entire country.
- everything is an object (limited by the fact that berlin is a GUI, so no Integer type classes, but thats to be expected in this problem domain), check.
- the system is unified in the manner you speak of, check.
- base classes don't really have to do with this, so no check on that.
- i don't know about berlin having a CodeBlock object, and the http://www.berlin-consortium.org/ site appears to be currently down... (they were up yesterday, dammit!) but it seems like a CodeBlock object (or something close enough for jazz) would be damn good to have; necessary, even. hmmmm... i do remember something about how because of the way berlin uses CORBA, programmers are not restricted to one language in their dealings with berlin objects. that sounds close to what you describe. too bad the site is down. heh. i don't know enough about berlin to give this a checkmark or not.
hmmmm... upon contemplation, it seems to me that there could be a very natural correlation between your pure object-oriented system and plan 9's everything-a-file design spec, if one were to take it beyond the GUI problem domain and into the OS/kernel problem domain...and i have nothing whatsoever against object manipulation being done visually. shrug. if people dig it, let em. it could be kinda cool looking, although it would most likely end up as a cheesy attempted-gibsonish pile o' shit... aw well. we all know that people will find themselves irresistably drawn back to the command line from whence they came ;)
oh yea: you said "The possibility of a "language that's not a language" isn't meant to turn users into programmers---something not likely to happen"... i gotta disagree with ya there... i think that, as more and more people use open operating systems, the urge to try to change things will take its toll, and the user/programmer distenction will began to grow fuzzier... at least, thats a naive hope of mine :p
nooooooooooooo! not nautral language! geesh. COBAL tried that, and we all know where that went... how about a scripting language frontend beside the GUI? or even an actual language, like, for instance, python? (i dig python very much. heh) a good scripting language can be way more powerful then nautral language because it can be targeted to a specific problem domain...
what i really wanna see is a commandline widget integrated into the wallpaper of my gui... or, rather, a commandline widget as a semi-transperent layer above my wallpaper. while not revolutionary, that would be a decent start in the right direction.
otherwise, though, i dig everything you said. you know about the berlin project, right? if not, check out http://www.berlin-consortium.org ... it could be really, really neat. i'm going to start actively contributing code to it in the fall, i promise...
Go look up the dictionary for "trite", instead of twisting my posts because you can't understand the word.
um... i'm quite familier with the definition of trite, man... your really working yourself into a hole there. the sentance you wrote was "anarchist trite", which, in case you were unaware, is of the form adjective-adjective. its like saying "tall green." that is pathetic, gramatically, which is why i gave you the benifit of the doubt and assumed the typo "anarchist tripe", which would have made perfect sense, in the relevent context; unlike what you actually wrote. anyway... on to the point.
[oh, but it does. thats the problem with "intellectual property." anyone can just trample all over (most of) it! (i make an exception for true well-kept trade secrets, etc...) here's a USEFUL definition of property for ya to chew on: "your property is whatever you can prevent other people from using." you don't have to like it, but really, its a situational given. if you disagree, state your reasoning.]
Here's a clue for you - just because you can definite the word "property", it doesn't mean that intellectual property means the same thing, but with intellectual ideas. Copyright laws in America (and most of the countries) give creators of intellectual property rights to do whatever they want with their creations. According to your twisted definition, I can trample all over GPL if I want.
"definite the word "property""? your first sentance is unparsable. is english your second language? thats an honest question. but back to the point: you *can* trample all over the gpl if you wan't. its quite doable...! china does it all the time! of course, if you do it flagrently enough, people might *try* to make you stop, but that only illustrates my point. thus the problem with "intellectual property": is it really yours if you can't control what people do with it? of course not. ownership of x is a property of the agent with control over x.
i asked you to state your reasoning if you disagreed with the statement "your property is whatever you can prevent other people from using." you disagree, but i'm not seeing any resoning supporting the disagreement. so how, exactly, can someone have as property that which they have no control over? and... you didn't answer my first question: "do you actually think that an action is wrong simply because its a crime?" cmon, kiddo, answer up. i dare ya.
I guess I shouldn't even be responding to a flamebait like you, but I'm looking for a place to vent my bad mood.
[hey man, whatever works for ya... but now why exactly was my post flamebait? if you called it a flame, ok, i could almost see that; it comes with the rhetorical territory... but flamebait?]
1) anarchist trite.
[i think the word you wanted there was "tripe"... and your point 1 is a completly unsupported assertion. anarchist? yea, leaning that way... but tripe? support your position or go away... and do you actually think that an action is wrong simply because its a crime? gee zus key riest...]
2) no. If you have intellectual property, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it. Just because some
[oh, but it does. thats the problem with "intellectual property." anyone can just trample all over (most of) it! (i make an exception for true well-kept trade secrets, etc...) here's a USEFUL definition of property for ya to chew on: "your property is whatever you can prevent other people from using." you don't have to like it, but really, its a situational given. if you disagree, state your reasoning.]
3) but certainly some shouting moron in all caps is definitely one.
[so do you still think mr. slippery is a zealot or not? you called him one earlier, and i disagreed, and in the above 3) you try to change the subject... aw well. fuckit. it doesn't really matter. and no, i'm not a zealot (about this) because i really don't feel very stronly about the "intellectual property" issue. hell, i think "intellectual property" is an oxymoron. that you mistook my rhetorical style for strong feelings is your problem. shrug...]
4) typical swearing dumbass.
[you didn't answer the question in had in my point 4). ya see, there's a some differences in the way we post: i ask questions, or i support my opinions. you spout unsupported assertions like "anarchist trite" (har...) and "If you have intellectual property, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it." not only that, but when you get mocked for it, you add a little "Moderate at will" clause at the end of your post? what are the moderators going to do, *not* moderate at will? ya dipshit...]
5) stop shouting, it's rude. And you're insulting Mr. Slippery to consider your post even remotely similar to his. At least his showed that it wasn't written by a moron.
[d00d... its rhetoric. if your actually offended by it, then hey, thats your problem. i am not responsible for your internal emotional state. and as to your last sentance... is mr. slippery both a zealot, and a non-moron? be consistant in your attempted insults, foo]
i was about to reply to "absolutely disguisting" post (by frac) but mr. slippery beat me to it. aw well... here goes nothing... what frac does not seem to get (among other things pointed out by mr. slippery, above) is that:
...?
1) that an action is a crime does not necessarily imply that the action is wrong
2) "if you made more valuble intellectual property like metallica, you would think unrestricted copying is wrong too" is a *really* shitty argument (my system of ethics is not a function of how much money i have or how i got it)
3) that someone who posts elegantly stated opinions that differ from your own is not necessarily a zealot
4) that ratting (or even saying your going to rat, rhetorically) to the riaa about irc mp3 leeches "just to piss you zealots off" makes him look like a fucking idiot. even assuming zealots, what good would pissing em off do? none. and if the "pissing off the zealots" bit was rhetorical, what purpose did it serve, other then to declare to the world that "I, FRAC, AM A SHORTSIGHTED VENGEFUL IDIOT, WHO IS COMPLETLY INCAPABLE OF MAKING WELL-REASONED ARGUMENTS IN SUPPORT OF MY OPINIONS!!!"
cmon, frac, say it with me: "THERE ARE NO "NAUTRAL" RIGHTS; "PROPTERTY" IS A CONCEPT IN OUR HEADS THAT EXISTS NOT BECAUSE IT IS A UNIVERSAL ONTOLOGICAL PRIMATIVE OR AN EXPRESSION OF A UNIVERSAL MORAL RIGHT, BUT BECAUSE IT WORKS WELL IN MANY PROBLEM DOMAINS, AND SO IS AN EMERGANT PROPERTY THEREOF. WHEN THE CONCEPT "PROPERTY" DOES NOT WORK IN A PROBLEM DOMAIN, IT SHOULD NOT BE APPLIED TO THAT PROBLEM DOMAIN! THE RELM OF INFORMATION IS ONE SUCH PROBLEM DOMAIN!"
i could go on, but, because i'm hungry, i won't.
it has been often bitched that linux, and open software in general, has jack shit for innovation in the user interface department. i say nuff o dat, and i hereby make a motion to go where no windowing system has gone before, etc etc etc... of course, it needs coders. get busy, ya lazy evercrackheads, and ye, in the corner, oh wretched ut whuppers of ass, arise! produce cool shit!
berlin owns ya. it has the potential to beat down os-x with jackie-chan-style grace. down with x! all hail the new windowing thingy, berlin!
this is an ascension war! read the vinge paper and gnash your teeth or whatever, but don't just sit on your ass...
the subject line pretty well covers it. ive got some meat beat manifesto, and thats great stuff, so im really curious about what else is out there along those lines. lessee... my to-obtain list right now (i know about and plan to obtain more stuff by these bands) has some delerium, crystal method, sneakerpimps, massive attack, portishead, tool, rage against the machine, deftones, nin, frontline assembly, skinny puppy, squarepusher, aphex twin, and meat beat manifesto...
;) but im very curious about what else is out there in the way of good drum n bass stuff...
so thats what i know about so far; recommending any of the above wouldnt help me much
DOWN WITH KID ROCK!!!
sayke, v2.3.05
not that that legitmizes anything...
but shit, our gov has done a pathetic job of managing the dough we give it. i dont know how much the national debt is up to now, but last time i heard it was 1.1 trillion, and that was a while ago. does this debt ever go down? no. therefore the government is losing money at a prodigious rate. if this (the united states) was a company, the management (the gov) would have long ago lost funding from the stockholders (us taxpayer types) and ceased to exist as a coporate entity...
but, tragically, the gov doesnt really have any external competition. we stockholders dont really have the option of buying somebody elses stock. we can vote for to determine who gets to be on the board of directors, so to speak, but we really cant sell our stock or anything. aw well, at least ive got a vote. maybe we can vote in some freethinking people to one of the boards of directors, in the hope that the stockholders get some of their power back...
note: when i say "get their power back", dont think im getting all nostalgic on ya. i know that when the constitution was written, only 9% of the people could vote... so it was never perfect.
"eris is my current goddess... shes a figment of my imagination, and i only pretend to worship her, but at least i admit it when my gods are make believe and my worship is a facade..."
sayke
is the use of antibiotics == murder? is ending the test of a complex neural network == murder? wtf. just because an embryo will be human (probably; sooner or later) doesnt mean it should be treated as one now. a brick, givin the proper tweaking, can become human... that we havnt quite figured how to do it just yet is beside the point.
i think your one of those ppl who believes human life begans at conception; as in, thats when a human gets a soul. what a crock. twins seperate long after conception... does that mean they share souls? if one goes to hell, does that mean the other is likewise doomed?
and what about, say, stem cells? we dont need true conception to do all kinds of interisting things with those. if we grow stem cells in a test tube, does it have a soul? what about more speciallized stuff... skin cells? or fingernails? do fingernails and skin cells have parts of the soul in them?
i hope your starting to see the absurdity of your point of view. if the body is somehow attached to a soul, what part of the body is attached to it? if you say "all of it", then cutting a fingernail is "killing" parts of yourself... and if you say "some of it", well, then what part == "some"? would you be like descartes, and say its the pineal eye? hah...
read some philosophy. stop foolishly "believing". do some peyote. squeegee out your third eye and come back to me. next.
mine truly,
pope sayke XXIII
i think both 'code magi' and 'code poet' both capture important aspects of programming rarely understood by nonprogrammers...
'code poet' captures the aesthetic value of code, which (i hope) when used might work towards dispelling the notion that programming is dry and boring. ive gotten some truly amazed looks from ppl when i say that i code for fun, and that ill gladly spend spare time doing it...
'code magi' (or mage; i just think magi sounds neater =) captures some of alchemical mystique of playing with powerful toys very few ppl really understand... see the technopaganism thread, and the 'myth, magik + mysticism' book review for some really good stuff on this...
haphazardly,
pope sayke XXIII
thats a beautiful way of implying the aesthetic value of code... nonprogrammers rarely grok this, and i think that "coding is dry and boring" is one of the more distructive misconceptions that could possible be held. ok, so not as distructive as "my perceptions accurately reflect reality" or "my god can kick your gods ass", but i think you get the idea =)
yes, this is from an aol account cuz i use it for my mail still; dont kill me please,
pope sayke XXIII
yea, i regret homeschooling, but thats mostly because my parents/teachers sucked. their motavations were basicly religious, and untill i figured out that that was a crock of shit and why, existance wasnt valueable.
i was homeschooled untill my freshman year in hs, at which point i was inserted into the gaping maw of the public school system. i was not prepared to deal with this. my social skills were rudementry at best.
in retrospect, i think the ideal situation would have been for me to be homeschooled till, say, 6th grade, at which point i would have started taking a few classes in more conventional environnments, if only to get the hang of efficiently interacting with groups/herds of people...