mhiller
asks this interesting question:
"When those of us who code refer to ourselves as 'hackers'
in mixed company, we always have to explain exactly what we
mean by that - that we're not trying to crack into NORAD
computers with our machines or anything else like that.
Experience has shown that it's hard for a smaller group of
peopleto act against the forces of linguistic change in the
larger world. This is particularly true in the case of
pejoration; when a word acquires a negative or taboo
meaning it tends to stick. For this reason, I feel that
our best efforts may not be enough to shake off the
definition of 'hacker' that the public has largely locked
on to. Perhaps we should promote the use of a different
term instead."
I've always been one for educating people
on the proper terms, but with the media still largely
not-getting-it, would we be better off finding another
group moniker? There's more. Click the link if you're
interested.
mhiller had more to say. Here's the last bit:
"The confusion stems from the fact that we're using the term
'hacker' in its earlier, non-pejorative sense, but that's
not the meaning it's taken on in the popular imagination.
To Random Joe on the street, the term 'hacker' means what
we call a 'cracker'.
Being a dabbler in linguistics, I can tell you that this
isn't a unique process. When a formerly positive or benign
word starts taking on a negative connotation, linguists
call it pejoration. For example, the term 'villain'
originally meant 'belonging to the villa', and referred to
people now usually called peasants.
The best thing I could come up with was the term
'white-knight hacker', which isn't very good. So I ask
Slashdot: What might be a better (or at least less confusing)
way for us to refer to ourselves?"
Slashdot Mirror
How about "programmer"?
As an engineer, I have always used hacker in the perjorative sense.
When I see someone band-aid a problem instead of getting to the root of it, or otherwise doing sloppy work, I think 'what a hack(er)'
t
Wanking?
Managing?
Kludging?
McGyvering?
Or, since the media has appropriated hacker, why not repurpose cracker for our own uses.
It's quite possible to reverse the pejorative
sense of a word, or at least make people
aware that there's a non-pejorative possible
meaning.
"Queer" and "gay" are interesting examples (though
not exactly analagous, because the referential content of the word is not in dispute, only the "connotation").
The best way to fix a word is to use it pointedly and often, in public.
That you might be the ones who came up with the new definition. As early as I can remember (from the early 80s) the term "Hacker" has had the pejorative context that it has now. Certainly, among programming circles, the definition has the one most /.ers seem to insist upon, but for the media as a whole, the definition has never changed - the Internet has just brought it back to life.
no.
i always thought crackers were the guys who "cracked" programs... hackers hacked banks, and hackers wrote code... it just seems to stand for someone who is good with computers... i don't see why one has to fear being labed a hacker..
blah..
Codemaster?
Nah, sounds really stupid.
Maybe we should just leave hacker as a double meaning?
You can usually tell which kind of hacker/cracker that people are talking about anyway.
Who cares... Words do have different meanings
in different cultures. I am content to be a member
of the culture where the word hacker came from
in the first place. And I do not mind if in a
different culture it has a different meaning,
Instead of trying to make up new words or terms,
use something that's already in the Jargon File...
gweep. It may be WPI's only claim to fame in the
Hacker's Dictionary, and if nothing else the
CS and ECE majors at WPI know what you're talking
about...
I think "coder" sounds too mechanical, even worse than "programmer". "Nerd" isn't too bad, as long as it's clear that doesn't mean you're some kind of a wimp.
The term "hacker" is gone. It will =never= change back to its original meaning. The reason is that crackers call themselves hackers. As long as they do that, the media will not call them anything else. Personally, I'd really like it if we called crackers what they really are ... criminals.
I use computer geek, most of the guys I know use computer geek
Remeber a hacker is not necessarily a code whore (programmer)
Gnerd.
I thought a geek was someone who eats raw flesh...
I'm older than the normal /. reader, so many of you may not understand this one. Well, a younger guy once called me a 029er (Oh Two Niner). Actually, he also included a certain adjective (starts with f) in front of 029er.:-)
Try using that term if you meet some old fart who worked on IBM mainframes before the days of terminals.
BTW, it's sad about the current misuse of term hacker that dates back to my generation of programmers.
I choose rich god like stud sex machine
Now if people would just understand that rednecks live on farms, in real houses... (their necks get red driving tractors and picking up taters) white trash live in trailer parks (and *YES*, that includes you "modular homebuyer" motherfuckers too... :) )
Face it, the word has changed. Language does that sometimes. Blaming the media is paranoid (as well as short sighted) as even the media pukes need to get it from somewhere.
To be angry that someone "took this word away from us" is the linguistic equivalent of the old fart in the park complaining about rap music.
It is time to move on and create, as opposed to stagnate, right?
Regards,
"The Worker Formerly Known As Hacker"(tm)
Well, my understanding is that the term hacker actually existed long before mainstream computer technology, and originally referred to anyone who could type prose rapidly, for example newspaper columninsts, and paperback authors. Hacking refers to the sound of hacking away at a typewriter. These people, and their works have since been called hacks; hence the expression "two-bit hack". With the advent of computer usage, a hack was someone who could produce code rapidly, which usually ment in some arcane, but elegant fashion. /. jargon refers to as hackers is actually wiz. Which is a contraction from wizard, but has since taken a diffent meaning. It's attractive in that it has more positive than negative connotations, implies specialization, e.g. he's a perl wiz, and is already common in the vernacular. It's also got the progression from full -fledged wizard to wiz to luser. /., IS, or any other computer community.
One possible course of action is to use the term hack instead of hacker when referring to programmers, and leave the term hacker with it's negative connotation.
Although collquial, the most common term for what
Another term that may be usefull is savant. It's more dignified than wiz, but still indicates expertise, and appeals to the computer's aura of mystery. However, it's kinda snotty, and does have the drawback of being assoiciated with mental problems.
Another common term is techie, but I don't think that that captures the idea of hacker nearly as well.
Perhaps R. Malda can be convinced to run a poll to see what everyone thinks.
Just remember that a lot of people are using the highly technical terms: C guy, database guy, internet guy, computer guy, and so on.
As for the distinction between hackers and crackers as described by the post, that will settle itself, independantly of any actions of the
When people ask me what I do, I tell them I am a 'computer jockey' or occasionally a 'code jockey.' I like the way it sounds, and is more lively than coder or programmer or software guy or whatever.
(Geez, even this subject could be taken the wrong way. :( )
:) )
From the other day in a coffee shop:
"What are you doing?"
"Coding."
"Codeine! Really! Have you ever tried hash?"
"Huh? No, I prefer bash. Where can I get 'hash'?"
etc. . . .
(Actually I figured something was wrong when all the cops looked my way
The author has a good point. It leads to confusion when words for new things are created, if those words are already in use for other things.
I think a new word is due. Too many eager journalists tainted the term Hacker forever. Then you stack on a few foolish movies (ie Hackers, the net, etc), which have NOTHING to do with anything related to hacking.
I always liked Cybernaut or Psybernaut. One who traverses Cyberspace. Of course cyberspace has been so over used and generally refers only to the net.
I like words that that or have psy in them because it refers to the power of the mind.
Maybe Psybertech.
Knacker ?
Actually, I disagree. As the Linux community ;-).
strays farther and farther from its Free Software
roots, I find more and more people don't know
about simple things like this. It's no longer
unusual to see a thread on a newsgroup titled
"MY BOX GOT HACKED!!!", with my lone response
setting the record straight that it was "cracked"
not "HACKED". On bad days I'll be sarcastic as
congratulate them for having someone hack on their
machine, presumably doing enhancements
I've thought about this over the years. It's seemed to be a loosing battle for years now, and every year it is more so. Personally I rather like, and have been known to use "Silicon Adept", or "Cyber Savant". The first being a fairly obvious, the second being rather obscure in more ways than one as most would assume you're talking about cybernetics not computers.
Zane
Since they are destroying the original meaning for hackers, let's destroy the original meaning of 'Real Programmers'.
(Score: -1, Bad Sense Of Humor)
I do. No one understands what I do, so I might as well take advantage of the situation by tweaking their minds a bit.
Wanking??? I don't know exactly what that is, but it's not complimentary if I understand correctly
You understand correctly
Managing would be a slap in the face to most hackers.
Inside Joke.
Kludging is considered a bad thing, an ineligant hack.
They don't have to know that. They won't even know what a kludge is.
Cracker would never sound good...just think about it! It's either a type of food or a person who breaks into stuff. I can't imagine any other interpretation.
Shortened form of crackerjack. Also a food.
Then again, We could do something like Marles Pickens, with 4 Ms and a slient Q.
do you really think they read slashdot? do you think that real hackers, the people who, for example, are responsible for maintaining NetBSD ports or hacking together threads support for GCC or other acts of total wizardry, spend their time reading and posting comments to /.? of course not. so give it up.. you kids want a name, call yourselves slashdotters. you claim you're not crackers, and you're not hackers.
Among fellow computer heads we usually use the term "geek" (I'm actually on a mailing list called "geeks").
Personally, I've always like the term "computer junkie".
How do you think the real gurus (indian yoga instructors) will feel when THEY have to start correcting the media's misuse of that word? :)
Why don't we dump 'script kiddie' and substitute 'journalist' or 'reporter'? That way we repay the media by using a term that they would use of themselves but we would be using it in a perjorative way.
Just a thought...
Pete
yeah - wizard is the best of the given choices (code pimp probably won't make the papers, funny tho it would b)
wizard is established enough already as meaning highly accomplished programmer, so it fits
one thought - guru ain't bad either - it's got virtually the same meaning and (to me) is slightly less aloof
At one time the word inflammable was emblazoned conspicuously on fuel carrying vehicles. So many people thought that the word was synonymous with nonflammable, that it was replaced with plain old flammable. That's one case where a misunderstood word could easily lead to trajedy.
The unfortunate choice of the word cracker has certainly muddied the waters in the eyes of the public. Instead of seeking to replace the widely used term hacker (in its correct, positive connotation), I propose we should replace the more obscure term cracker with miscreant, or some other clearly pejorative (and apt) term. This will serve to disambiguate the situation greatly.
Leave the word hacker alone. Go after cracker instead. And don't make cracker's replacement rhyme with hacker.
Admiral Yamamoto
stronger. 'Geeking' is an increasingly frequently used verb in my circles,
used to describe the act of waxing passionate about linux, IPv6, crypto
regulations, or other typical
...or passionate about not only Penguins--but chickens.
Original meaning for geek is a carnival wildman who bites the heads off'n chickens.
That's not pejorative?
Oh, maybe not...an honest way to make a living...
Say, uhh, did anyone say B.G. is feathering his nest?
(Tee-hee...)
If you don't want to sound arrogant, how about using something less "threatening", much like auto mechanics are known for. They crack open the hood of a car, we crack open the hood of the computer: so we could use "bit monkey" ;)
I would whole-heatedly argee with your statement. The definition of a word is defined by the culture, not by it initial meaning.
I'm a computer science student. In the first weeks of our first year we were taught some of the history of computing, and Charles Babbage was refered to as the original hacker (kinda jokingly). He was a genius, but the hardware of the time was not fit for his application [building what would have been the worlds first computer]. He had to give up on his Difference Engige before completion, and also his next project, the Analytical Engine, was left incomplete.
;)
When I talk of hacking, I talk of hacking C code, and mean writing code in a very informal, cretive way. The kind of program that you never quite get round to finishing, and the code would make a Sofware Engineer tear his hair out.
The press don't understand the meaning of hacker: lets not worry about it, they'll figure it out sooner or later.
"Cracker" is also a derogatory term for a Southern White. Not a "nice" word in these oh so correct days. As a result Newspapers avoid it and use the less difficult (for them) term "hackers".
I would not be surprised if "Cracker" is on the "no-no" list (style sheet) of many newspapers.
Why don't we just kill everyone who doesn't know the difference between 'hacker' and 'cracker'? I'm sure the world would be a more interesting and civilised place afterward and then we could all go back to reading /. or pissing around with lesstif ...
All this nitpicking about the word hacker is silly, the term denotes both
w izard-anyway-GUI :)
someone who is 'hacking source' and someone who 'hacks accounts'. A cracker
denotes someone who cracks games, other software and possibly security in
various forms, ranging from piracy through malicious attacks on networked
machines to benign forms such as competing in RC5. So the terms sometimes
overlap. All IMHO of course, but personally I would rather use hacker than
cracker for someone breaking into computers, and the media does too.
The point is that the average journalist usually doesn't know what he is
talking about and mixes up context and interprets the terms differently
just about every time. Also these terms have been changing in meaning over
the past decades with computer technology evolving and it's use and
perception and will continue to change in the future. Maybe most
importantly: the different uses of such terms are invariably tied to the
community they are used in, if you come from an academic/UNIX background
hacker says something entirely different than if you grew up with a wall of
5,25" floppies to feed your C=64 or think that computing started with
Windoze 95.. Maybe people should let go of their fixation on what they
think is the only true way, that only testifies of a limited view of the
world.
I for one am more irritated by the poorly researched movie scripts where
a Sandra Bullock switches on a machine and instantly gets into a thinly
veiled I'm-too-stupid-for-two-mouse-buttons-but-I'm-the-
without the three hour bootup process you would normally be subjected to
People have already developed a set of names for computer-philes. The closest name that is in general circulation to what we do is programmer. The distinctions between hacker and programmer are lost on the general populace.
I don't like the term 'coder' because it brings to mind mechanical translation or coding of data. Programming or hacking are highly creative enterprises that don't deserve that connotation.
What do you say when someone penetrates a system? Its been hacked. You do not say its been cracked. Thus, the term is indeed Hacker. However, you can also hack code, hack the kernel etc. Most of the so called 'crackers' call THEMSELVES hackers, as does the media. Cracker to me always meant either a person to breaks copy protection, or perhaps a cypherpunk. I don't see whats the problem with saying there are various types of hackers..In the old days you had the Dark Side, and the Light Side. You could be a good hacker, or a bad hacker..
-AC
and lets not forget those really tasty and cruchy saltines that we like to crumble up and put in our soup. mmmmmmmmmm.!
Ive seen many many posts here about how a small group of people cannot change the way the world will view a certain word. What then makes you think that this small group of people will be able to shape the way the populus views us by naming ourselves? Its contradictory.
We will just have to wait and see what the rest of the people label us as, and who really cares what they call us? I just dont get it. Maybe my thinking is really screwey.. if you think so tell me.
/*Seriously, we don't need a new word for hacker, we need a new word for cracker. I propose calling people who break into computers penetrators. If that don't sound right, what about haxors, breakers, or walkers. Anyone know of anything better? */
Criminal? Jackass? Idiot? Someone in need of an ass-kicking?
As securicons. We would be like a big army of smart robots!
The only draw-back is that too many people would relate the term 'securicon' to the deceptacons from Transformers.
and there's something about being described as the "alpha geek"...
Geek is not negative in my book. Some might take it to mean social outcast, but I don't really care. I am a geek, and that's fine with me... I have friends and I am not insecure, so I know I am not a social outcast.
-Reeves
Actually, it's "niggaz," homie.
Peace.
No, a phacker IS a postal hacker. Like playing with stamps and stuff. A "phone hacker" is a phreaker.
sounds like leper. We need a different KIND of word, I think. Not a er.. something different.. I dunno... but none of this wanker crap, alright?
The only people who bother to use the word 'hacker' as a description for a programmer are under 16 years old.
I'm either a programmer, or a computer consultant.
pOOPhead...
That is such a cool title. I've been using 'programmer' for official stuff, and 'systems administrator' when I try to sound impressive. Code poet, huh....
...
All of these terms or not only pejorative, but evil. Well, originally
"geek" and "nerd" weren't evil. But I will explain.
Hacker and cracker are willingly adopted labels which imply a
threat - the ability to do harm. Forget the meaningless distinction
between hacker and cracker. When Slashdot gets taken down,
Cmdr Taco says that the site wes hacked, not that it was cracked.
While there is some discussion of the original meaning of
the word, but not the most original one, and of "good hackers",
even being a good hacker is interpreted by most people in
terms of security issues - knowledge of how to make systems
do other than they were intended to do. (Actually the
original original meaning of the word hacker is a crude
artist, who chops things out - writers and journalists used
it first).
The general public is damned right in being suspicious of
all persons who call themselves geeks, nerds, cracker or
hackers. The overwhelming majority of people who now
call themselves hackers do so for elitist reasons, and are
phonies. Maybe there are a few older people who started
referring to themselves as hackers before the general
public even cared, but these people are few. At this time,
applying such labels to one's self is only a cheap power
play mostly employed by charlatans. The motivations
are not good in adopting the label. Again, the implied threat.
It's the same way with nerd and geek. I can understand some
people who have been saddled with that label by others clinging
to it in the same way that "Christians" adopted their label, but
again a large majority of persons referring to themselves these
days a nerds and geeks do so to inpire fear in other, usually
not the people who have oppressed them originally, either.
The shallow elitism and trendiness in these labels is very
evident, and sometimes I feel that those who glory in it have
lost the right to call themselves human beings. Mostly, applying
the name to one's self these days says "I'm smarter than you
and may make more money than you, and this gives me a
feeling of power. " Get a life and be a human being.
Why not just call one's self a writer - of software, or an engineer
or an artist if one feels creative - and a person.
Digiratus!
DigiRat?
Digirapist.. nahh...
oops!
I'm omnipotent. Really I am! At least, I am when I'm on my Viagra...
Yeah, I'm an AC, but we're people too! Anyways... this thread looks pretty good. One thing though. Having a traumatic childhood in Tomball Texas, I beg everyone to not use Cowboy! PLEASE NO!!!! Ahem. Anyways, I like a lot of them. Acolyte could work, with a little help... (hacolyte! nahhh...), but I really like Digirati. However, the juh sound in it doesn't pronounce too well... Imagine, in a drunken stooper, "Yeah man... I'm a dijuhhhrateeeeee..." I dunno. It's my favorite so far. I woulnd't mind being a Digiratus. I'll try my own.. alright... here I go... damn. Oh well. Me and a friend have been calling each other GNUrds for a while... heh. I dunno, but please, NO COWBOY! PLEASE! We could be the Code Magii, or Mages if Magii is too complicated for the general public...
-tsunake the Digirati
I'm omnipotent. Really, I am! At least, I am when I take my Viagra...
A guy who I work with has 'Network Software Dude[tm]' .. sure, doesn't work :)
on his business cards
for everyone, but not that bad either
almost as bad as people mis-characterizing crackers as hackers is people (even those that know the difference from cracker) thinking that the term hacker only applies to computer users. a person can be a hacker of type of system...
IMO, a hacker is someone with an unsatisfiable thirst for knowledge about how systems work, not just on the surface, but at every level. people who will work within and outside of a system to the point of distraction to learn everything they can about it and how to use and improve it...and then make those improvements.
hackers aren't simply a subclass of computer users, true hackers have a unique and inquisitive view on life.
of course, there's a ton of people out there who think they're hackers that have nothing to do with that view, even quite a few non-crackers out there. oh well.
that's just my opinion, i could be wrong.
huzzah!
Geek doesn't work. It covers all kinds of
people who use computers somewhat obsessively.
The term hacker has a deep, almost religious
meaning to REAL hackers. People ASPIRE to
become hackers. A hacker isn't just a computer
user, or even a programmer, it's someone who
will play nettrek for 19 days of a 21 day
project, then stay awake for three days
straight writing the code in one marathon
session.
It's a long hard fight to become a true
hacker, I did it, I'm proud of the term
and I'm damned if I'm giving it up now!
There is no other word. I don't care that the
press get it wrong. Fellow hackers know what
the term means when I use it. True hackers
regard everone else as lesser mortals who
get EVERYTHING wrong. They use Windoze, they
program in an integrated debugging environment
and use source code control tools. Real hackers
use vi, emacs or teco, use Make, UNIX (Linux
at a pinch - but more likely BSD) and believe
that every bug can best be found using 'printf'.
Hackers don't need a new word.
The press havn't found the need to use a
different word for True Hackers because the
press don't know about us - and wouldn't
understand the distinction. Most people who
say they are hackers are really programmers,
maybe very good, talented programmers - but
95% of people who claim to be hackers know
secretly, deep down inside, that thay STILL
just wish they had what it takes.
I'm wanking The Gimp.
Hmmm.
Code cowboy I like. Source error is bad.
I'm a code cowboy. Yeee haw!
Neomage? NeoMagi? (We'll save neuromancer for later ;) ).
Anyway why not stick with hacker? The dictionary lists both meanings. And rather too often both the meanings are appropriate....
I agree: the majority have voted already, so it's no point trying to convince them to use cracker, and complaining about misuse of the term hacker.
Link.
I often see in the newspapers that the law wants to curb computer 'hacking', but is that what they call it?
In all those horrible legalese documents do they say hacker when they mean cracker?
Actually, at the history museum in Florida, they told us that "cracker" is short for "whipcracker". Southerners, especially ornery Florida southerners, used to brandish a large bullwhip for keeping rattlers, gators, etc. in line.
Although I didn't realize it at the time they told us at the museum (I must have been around 10) I think that "whipcracker" sounds like something you'd call a slave owner.
I like using the term "hacker" exactly because it has the conotation it has. I work in an environment (read: university) where people call themselves "software engineers" and believe the ratio of comments/LOC or the neatness of their diagrams determines software quality. They are also the people that despise the method of software development we praise as "hacking", so I enjoy calling my compiler designs "hacks" and myself a "hacker" purely for shock value.
I am a true believer that a brilliant hackers'
(e.g. Linus or JohnC) small, fast & clever code can mean more to making a great piece of software than any amount of "software engineers" can ever hope to achieve.
What "hacker" and "cracker" also mean to people who are computer illiterate is "someone who, on his own, can overcome any computer barrier" which I don't mind at all. We despise crackers because we know its not difficult at all, but to the average joe it seems rather clever. Let language take its course...
I always liked the term Coder. Sounds good to me.
-jmX
GURU is not just a word, it's an acronym.
Good
Understanding
Relatively
Useless
Personally, I do *not* want to be known as a guru.
-Todd
"Code Warrior" was originally a Mac app.
Me too.
Computer vandal...
very good replacement for cracker.
Codehead is cool !!!!
The common thing is that true hackers fiddle with code (of whatever kind and origin). The term hackers is so broad now that anyone who codes something is a hacker. The problem with hacker is not that it is broad, but that it is used for crackers too.
A friend of mine calls himself Codehead. Short and to the point.
J-T
Codehead is cool !!!!
The common thing is that true hackers fiddle with code (of whatever kind and origin). The term hackers is so broad now that anyone who codes something is a hacker. The problem with hacker is not that it is broad, but that it is used for crackers too.
A friend of mine calls himself Codehead. Short and to the point.
J-T
How about making the singular and plural the same.
There are also "hardware hackers"- which denotes a person who probably does some firmware, but is also adept at the soldering iron, and can design logic using discrete logic gates (i.e. TTL chips). Being a hardware hacker means being capable of more than brainless phillips-screwdriver spinning when it comes to computer/electronics hardware.
Really, though, language has always been defined by all of the people who use a language, not an elite subset. There's probably political gain to be had by some in the struggle against "the mainstream" but anybody who thinks they're gonna resurrect obsolete definitions for the word "Hacker" is serously deluded. The "jargon file" is a historical document at this point, and at risk of becoming irrelevant rather than merely obsolete, if it cops a preachy tone. Move on, folks.
In the 'Wizard' vein, how about 'Open Sorcerer'?
You will slowly find yourself off in a corner being irrelevant, if you can't get beyond language usage issues. Like a feminist who harps on about language usage, and can't see to more general issues of pay equity in the workplace, rape/abuse issues, etc. The word to describe where you're headed is "irrelevant" or "marginalized." Look 'em up in the dictionary.
Maybe we need special Usenet groups for people like you to fight in. i.e.: alt.language.strident.jargon.neanderthals
If you're going to try and clean up the use of terminology, maybe you should stop creating more confusion by using the term "cracker" in a meaning other than that used by people who consider themselves crackers (those who crack software). They have as much right to choose their own name as you do.
"The Monitor-tanned elite."f e)
cellulite-farm.
potato-chip-eater.
computer-subcult-denizen.
"free software zealout"
demogogue
tweak
software twinkie
LUSER (abbreviation for Linux USER)
ABWRARHNL (anything-but-windows-rant-and-raver-having-no-li
Dear Matt,
What you have managed to accomplish is to chose a subject that defines the demographic of Slashdot.
With almost 400 responses, the topic of self-image is a big winner.
We have learned that programming people are prisoners of terms as defined in the 1960's (such as modern usages of geek,nerd as pejorative terms for those so self-involved they lack common social skills and the venerable "freak" and "head"), traditional 19th century words (cracker as in "safe cracker")and 1940's-50's (programmer,code).
They love words with harsh "K" sounds in them and those which denotes aggression ("hacker" anyone?).
Youngish, male, engineers.
Few poets. And being fairly creative honestly does not imbue one with the label "wizard" or "guru".
The romantic view of the technologist/engineer has been with us since the early 19th century. It makes everyone feel good if they are welcomed and well-treated as contributors to the general welfare.During the 19th they were primarily known as "hired hands" and infrequently got a cut of the pie.
Maybe a new word is needed, but as we former broadcasters (a previous hi tech world) used to say , "don't talk to anyone in the news department, they'll get it wrong."
Mkae your own terms. Just make sure all the other kids agree.
or is it written diger???
Anyway, like it alot, because of digging yourself
as deep in the problem until you have your 'perfect' solution.
Opposite to people just doing it the fast and
easy way
coder - regular joe programmer
hack coder - more specific than hacker
wiz coder - Larry Wall, Linus, etc
poser - wannabes
So basically you're saying hackers consider themselves better than other programmers, but the title of wiz coder is not self-proclaimed. Sounds like a bunch of ego run amok.
If I might add, many many people can hack code, that is sit at a keyboard a churn at code to do X. A true skill (and a rare one at that) is to plan before coding, and write concise correct code the first time. Really good programmers do this, and write quality code 10x faster than ``hackers'' hacking away at the code for no end. ''Hackers'' spend 90% of their time debugging and trying to understand their own code. This is not impressive!
I dare all naysayers to come up with examples where a hacker said they could do something in X amount of time and actually came anywhere near that. I know some good progammers who are always right in this respect, and who have much more foresight than any self-proclaimed hackers (note, good progammers does not necessarily imply commercial progammers; that's a whole other story).
As additional food for thought, look at the code of the winners of progamming contests such as the IOI and the ACM Programming Contest (I've been to both). I assure you that their code is very neat, well planned, not hacked, and not overly clever. This style of coding, among the best coders in the world, always results in the shortest programming time, most correct programs, and additionally the quickest programs. If this isn't evidence enough that hacking isn't better, then I don't know what is!
What should we do? We should get a dictionary before writing articles! I think learning to spell would be most important.
How about stealing a hierarchy of words from some other field?
code hero, code demigod, code deity..
prince among coders, king among coders..
code star, code nova, code supernova?
That way the usual "but astronomers and MechEs and so forth are hackers too!" can be accommodated with other prefixes. (In a previous life I knew some plasmid demigods.)
raise this guy's score.
p.s.: -1 me.
sorry, maybe I watch too much of the news, or maybe my 2nd grader memories of being made fun of because of what my name rhymed with are coming back to me...
Ever heard of Pedophile??? sounds too close for me...
Yikes! Now this is starting to sound like a discussion of what adolescent cliques call one another.
Developers produce applications professionally using design methodolgies they leared in college. Developers go to team meetings to hash out requirements and discuss the latest bugs found by the testing staff. Developers get paid big bucks to produce products companies can sell and people can use to enhance their lives.
Hackers do whatever they want, for whatever reason, and back out of any project that doesn't gratify their ego enough. Hackers view documentation as beneath them, and users as lusers. Hackers live on a diet of cheeze puffs. Hackers view themselves as an elite and would never belittle themselves by codeing to written requirements that were thought out in advance. Hackers are virulently anti-business, viewing the large scale industries necessary to produce the hardware they hack on as an evil tendency. Hackers are the software equivalent of hash slingers in a cheap dirty spoon, dripping cigarette ash into the scrambled eggs.
Since journalists are the ones who, not
understanding what 'hacker' meant, mistakenly
changed its meaning, I've decided to fight back.
I use the term 'journalist' to refer to someone
who breaks into computer systems.
All of the suggested new names for us have a negative connotation. (i.e. geek, nerd, etc) I suggest we form a new term, or a very old one. Look back to the age of Latin, I am sure we can find a term which encompasses "smart" or "writer" or something else.
It was never a nice word. But you can blame the fact that it's an insult on "political correctness" if it makes you feel good.
how about "Goof" or "Dweeb"? :)
They seem to apply to most of us
People can do more than pay for or crack software. They can install it and run it. In the games arena, that's nearly impossible on Linux.
My 11 and 13 year old nephews have their own computers. (I set them up with 486's awhile back) I don't think there's some sort of parental conspiracy to keep Linux off family computers. There are just a lot of kids not interested in running a Server OS on their computer. Kids like games. Kids aren't that patient about futzing around on a tty to get games going.
If I might add, many many people can hack code, that is sit at a keyboard a churn at code to do X. A true skill (and a rare one at that) is to plan before coding, and write concise correct code the first time. Really good programmers do this, and write quality code 10x faster than ``hackers'' hacking away at the code for no end. ''Hackers'' spend 90% of their time debugging and trying to understand their own code. This is not impressive!
I smell a flamebait.
What you describe is exactly what is happening is the comics world. There are two groups of comic artists, one has appreciation of art and went through formal training (read art school), and one has a knack in art and draws as he sees fit (a hack artist). What pisses 'real' artists is that hack artist make more money and fame than they do, even tho they missed a lot of key points: 1) body out of proportions, 2) ideal angle shots, 3) proper placing of objects, 4) center of gravity 5) proper gestures, 6) etc, etc....
This is what hack coding is all about. Many people can hack code but very few are disciplined in the arts of coding. The people who hack code usually has a knack and the drive and the love of coding (even when they make fundamental errors in approach and design). That is something that is to be respected. Through formal training and discipline, a hack coder can go on to the next level. You can acquire them by reading the works of experienced coders. Bjarne Stroustroup and Scott Myers comes to mind.
I don't think anyone should be critical about the works of hack coders especially 'real' programmers. They produce a program for everyone to enjoy when no one else wouldn't.
Note that I don't proclaim myself to be a hack coder anymore than you proclaim yourself to be a 'real' programmer.
Another Joe Coder
Feared? Hardly. Mostly just ignored.
Certainly not!
Hackers hardly ever get laid.
Naw, a cracker is a white guy, as in "Peckerwood Cracker!"
I frequently compare hackers to greasemonkeys. Everyone seems to understand the it's-in-your-veins aspect of cars. Extending it to computers is easy, but "codemonkey" or "bitmonkey" just doesn't do it.
Author of digital truth. I use this one when I'm trying to convey the power of owning things.
Codesmith is close, but not all hackers code. Bitsmith has all most of the right implications, but it's too tied to employment rather than obsessive fascination.
Technophile... umm.. ok sounds good.
Let's start a fund now to pay for the hitperson to bump off the first journalist who spells it "techn0phile" okay? Let's just own all the media's machines and do our own editing, then we don't have to worry what the reporters think of us.
There are people who say "crackers" are not hackers and there are people who say they are. There are 2 hackers: programmers who fiddle in code to let it do what they want and/or improve the program and users who can break into a protected system. People who don't write their own code to break in and don't have true knowledge of a system aren't real hackers. These are 2 groups of computer people with the same name. Both are hackers. Both have pretty good knowledge of computers. I know clever professional programmers who don't know anything about UNIX, only Windows. Bottom line is: people who break into a system with alot of knowledge of a system (not wanna-be's using other people's stuff) are hackers, as well as programmers who play with other people's code.
Crackers have enough knowledge to be called hackers.
I don't know if it has been said, but how bout coders, coder, whatever, it seems to have the same definition as hacker ha(s|d).
Just as a Feminist would (violently) dislike being associated with a bimbo, in exactly the same way do Hackers dislike the fact that Crackers get associated with them...
Courtesy being the soul of civility, and all that, old chap...
Im as much of a nerd as the next guy, but for the love of God, Ive never seen more atrocious spelling from anyone above kindergarten!
Even though it had decent arguements, that last post was painful enough for me to write this response!
Well AFAIK the british have some strange spelling, though his spelling was odd even for an englishman. maybe the his native language isn't english. I don't know, go figure though to me its not a big deal as to how one conveys their ideas/thoughts as long as they do it effectively and efficiently.
As to what we should call ourselves, here's some ideas that I think are fairly neutral, not too sad and can be understood by non-computer scientists:
steve
I fact that I share at least one thing in common with the you does not make me the same as you.
Is it so important that "we" (whoever "we" are) have a name that describes "us". One would think the last thing "we" would want is to be labelled with a word that can be used to insult "us".
Why do you think terms like "nerd" are so popular?
Because they are insults.
You might come up with a fabulous sounding new label, but either
b) "They" won't use it
z) "They" will use it as an insult
I am not a hacker or a cracker or a guru or a nerd. I don't describe myself with a word that triggers a predictable response in anybody, be they friend or foe. That makes things harder, but you do get to maintain an air of mystery.
Labels are always used against the labelled.
Don't have a label.
Why roll over when we are being denigrated by the media's misuse of the term "hacker". Launch a class action lawsuit against any media outlet that uses "hacker" in a perjorative sense.
The term hacker came from (if my memory of the Levy book serves me) the MIT model train club-- setting up the electrical system to do something clever was referred to as a "good hack". A lot of the folks in the model train club went on to work on the computers that were later installed at the college.
If we are to follow suit in the creation of a new word (and image in the mainstream media), we should try to base the word on how we refer to cleverness and respect. If somebody contributes an exceptional piece of code to the Linux kernel, what is it called? Can that be made into a word that adequately represents us?
Alternately, literature may be a source for a name. Gibson seems to be a popular choice amongst other posters; maybe we can call ourselves Cases. Consider, perhaps, Neal Stephenson-- we could call ourselves Hiros.
But who's gonna listen to an AC?
I afraid don't have much of an opinion on this hacker vs. cracker vs. coder subject, but if I could have a job watching MacGuyver reruns all day I'd be as happy as a maggot on a gut wagon.
In Babylon 5, there are a group of people from various races known as technomages. They used science and engineering to simulate magic and were regarded with awe by the normal people.
today on ZDN, there is an article that refers to Mitnick as "Convicted Hacker Kevin Mitnick"....
I figured you were a musician (and a fellow bassist as well, imagine that) with the Real Book reference. Now, would that be the old Real Book or the New Real Book?
I'm a junior in high school (at the end of this week I'll be considered a senior. I program in C++ (I've taken AP computer science), and I'm learning as much as I can about networks. I help out the school's system administrators during my study hall, and I'm going to be working for one of them this summer.
I proudly refer to myself as a computer geek in high school, because that's what I am. It's not like I get beat up or anything, I'm athletic and I wieght lift, but I just call myself a geek. That's that. If there's something negative about that, oh well. I'm comfortable enough with myself to take that negativeness
-OnyxArrow
How can you debate on a replacement term for "Hacker" when so many people have differing ideas what a hacker is? Shouldn't the defenition of a hacker be, "One who subscribes to the hacker ethic"?
l
Here is the "Hacker Ethic" as (commonly)described at http://hoshi.cic.sfu.ca/~guay/Paradigm/Hacker.htm
"One of the traits of the true hacker is a profoundly antibureaucratic and democratic
spirit. That spirit is best exemplified by the Hacker's Ethic. This ethic was best formulated by
Steven Levy in his 1984 book Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution. Its tenets are as
follows:
Access to computers should be unlimited and total.
All information should be free.
Mistrust authority - promote decentralization.
Hackers should be judged by their hacking not bogus criteria such as degrees, age, race, or
position.
You create art and beauty on a computer,
Computers can change your life for the better."
Hacking isn't about programming; at it's basic roots, hacking is the pursuit of knowlege. While it's true that most hackers are programmers, programming is not a prerequisite skill of the hacker. For example, most amateur radio operators are hackers at heart; they hack the radio waves.
Whether a person has a gift for programming, hardware or networking, I think the true hacker is an explorer and a problem solver. Hackers love to take take apart things so they may learn more about them, they love to repair and reassemble what was broken and above all, they love to tinker with what was once marginal and make it do things the designer never intended it or thought it could do. Hackers will sometimes go to great lengths to *find* problems to solve. The hacker will go to extremes for the sake of the challenge; why else would anyone network a Linux box, an AS/400, an old Sparc and a Win98 box to eachother in one's bedroom? What average person would even *have* and AS/400 in their bedroom? There is no practical reason to do this; the challenge is the motivation.
Why do you think so many "hackers" loved the T.V. show McGuyver? For all of it's flaws, the program had a great concept. The hero was an average "Joe" who used his brains to find unusual solutions to get out of the weekly "sticky situation"TM. No guns, not rockets or bombs, no Rambo tactics were used, just creativity. Every week you were guaranteed to see at least one "kewl hack"TM.
Hackers have an almost compulsive desire to learn all there is to learn about a specific system; how could you attack a problem if you don't know the system, after all? The true hacker is an artist at heart; it's all about creation. A hacker creates the code, he creates the network, he CREATES the hack.
What the media thinks a hacker is, what your boss thinks a hacker is, what your mother thinks a hacker is, is irrelevant. The true hacker doesn't use the title to tell people what he does and will rarely refer to himself as one. Just like people who say they are cool usually aren't, those who label themselves "hacker", usually don't "get it". Most hackers reserve the title for others and consider being called such by one's peers to be an honor.
I could care less what people think "hacker" means; to my peers, it will always be a compliment. The word "Hacker" started out as an underground term and It's fine with me if the true meaning returns to that status. As long as I keep learning and have confidence in my skills, titles are unimportant.
------------------------------------------
"I'll break out a box of hack-fu on your ass!"
Look, script kiddee, I know it seems as if the world didn't really get going until you came along, but trust me, your crowd did not start the use of the word 'hacker.'
In a few circles a tweaker is a speed addict.
...or something equally flattering. Saying it that way makes it sound as though "hacker" by itself is bad and you've created an oxymoron to make it less bad. "I may be a member of a bad group, but I'm not as bad as most...."
No thanks.
01001000 01000001 01000011 01001011 01000101 01010010
As I understand it, the term "hack" was used to and still is used to describe someone very skilled in his/her particular field. A computer hacker, therefore, is someone extremely skilled at programming. J. Carmack would be a hacker. Linus would be a hacker. Hack also seems to have the connotation of someone very clueless about his/her field, similar to a quack.
Modern crackers are very distinct from crackers of old. Modern crackers tend to be immature teens and pre-teens who use the tools of others to do stupid security tricks. The crackers of old were, of course, also hackers, who were expert programmers that intimately knew what they were doing. I suppose the stupid young crackers thought they were hackers, too, since they accessed foreign systems, like true "cracker-hackers", and took for themselves.
I think the average reporter will never figure out the difference between hacker and cracker. I advise to give it up.
Now volunteer, that's a word with cachet. Every reporter knows about volunteers and the good work they do at the Red Cross, Habitat, etal. I've been recruiting and working with volunteers for a decade now, take it from me, volunteer has no negative connotations.
And programmer, you mean you know computers and internet and stuff? Computers are hard, liberal arts majors regard legitimate programmers as gods.
i don't see what everyone's complaining about:
we've all been using a perfect alternative for years....
"geek" has already come to mean what
hacker once did.
-------------------
-astrix8
javanet.com/~user
-------------------
Hey, I heard someone mention this earlier..
"Effer". (Said "F'er")
I mean, come on.. How many of you haven't effed up something on a computer before (;
People ask me what I do/am and I usually just say I'm a computer geek and they get the picture. The term hacker causes confusion in most peoples' minds.
Some people refer to me as a computer guru, but I don't think it fits as well. (Plus I think the term guru implies extremely vast knowledge, which would be inappropriate for me.)
In my experience, 'geek' is understood much better than 'hacker'. Maybe I'd just rather have somebody think of me as inept than as a bad guy. Ah well...
I agree that 'hacker' would be best if mainstream culture used it correctly, but I don't see that hapening.
If you're in mixed company, just refer to yourself as a nonmalicious hacker. After all, alot of hackers like you and me have tried, however slightly, to break into a system that wasn't ours :)
It doesn't involve that much of a change, and gets the point across.
I've always liked "code monkey" as an alternate term to programmer, of course I only use it when talking to other programmers though.
I prefer:
'White hat hacker' : good hacker
'Grey hat hacker'
'Black hat hacker' : evil hacker ('cracker')
'h4x0r' or '5kr1p+ k1dd13' : evil, but not a hacker
Okay, so anyway, talk to a few engineers who think that computer science is pulling people away from really LEARNING about the problem before writing any software, and you will quickly pick up that they like to use the words "bit twiddlers." I kind of find this funny.
Oh yeah, I also vote for "toolers" -- in honor of MIT's "tooling."
- Jack Holloway
Often when I'm hanging around fellow computer-knowledgable friends I might say something about how I should hack such-and-such together over the weekend for a personal project or school. But I never call myself a hacker - definatly not in the presence of non-computer people. It's a stupid term that means many different things. Not just coding. I call myself a coder.
Hacking has gathered different meanings over time. It could refer to coding (even bad coding! "I just hacked this crap together last night at 3 am"), or building hardware, or pulling of an awesome prank, or - I daresay - breaking into a computer system. I know that I personally have called computer criminals hackers. Why shouldn't I? People know what I'm talking about, and there is no confusion. Even with my computer-knowledgable friends - it's taken in context.
My point is that it's not worth fighting for. Live with it.
P.S. some computer criminals hate being called crackers. Crackers, in their view, are people who crack software.
P.S.S. I am not a computer criminal.
how about coder, or codee? I've always liked the two.
------------------
What's wrong with just plain "coder"? Or you could use "programmer," a term that everybody understands.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
phacker? This may leave the wrong impression, especially if slightly mispronounced.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Yeah, that'll happen right about the same time that hackers/geeks/nerds/coders/etc. gets classed as a protected minority under hate crimes legislation :P
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
That's the same problem again. You're trying to class "hackers" based on what you view as ethics, while the term is one describing skill.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Posted by The Mongolian Barbecue:
I bet most of the people involved in this conversation can't code worth a damn. The real programmers are too busy doing real things to participate in this sandbox discussion
It has to be admitted that Jon Katz is right in this case.
We should be more worried about the plight of those who aren't crackers, or those who are but are smart enough to say they are hackers, who, like Kevin Mitnick are rotting in jail without even having a fair bail hearing and others who are being raided by the FBI and demonized in the press for fairly innocent manipulations of data that caused no harm and were only rooted in the deep seated desire for knowledge that is within every true hacker who ever walked the face of the earth. We need to unseat from power those who plagiarize words, as though it is those who speak who can define their meaning, and tear down this system that is dragging us to the ground and our hacker brothers with us, and cracker alike.
Long live the war of words that will drag its wards into the eternal misery of linguistic squabbling!
The above comments are protected under the APSL, violation of which will result in revoking of all privileges attached thereto.
TK427 - Do you copy?Posted by frogbert:
People would remember you if you called yerself a nuclear terrorist.
Posted by Denium:
What do you think?
Denium
denium2001@yahoo.com
Well, personally I still like the term hacker, but yeah it does cause a lot of confusion.If a new term is really what we're after, something someone mentioned in a comment (which I now can't find) inspired a little idea in me...
The consensus of opinion from a few people seemed to be that using an old term might be a good idea, so how about something we see reasonably often in using Linux (even if it doesn't need to run), something that has already made its way into slang, something that can sum up the idea of poking about with something to get it working.
fscker?
...If that's awkward to say, either because of formal company or whatever, or just because of linguisticyness, you could perhaps pronounce it
fiscker
or something. Just a thought, anyhoo. I like it...
As I say, I still like the term hacker. Would starting to use a new term necessarily make the old one void? Or would we be using both depending on company?
BTW-When I said about seeing it often in Linux, I wasn't trying to say I think it's unstable, because I know it isn't, too.
Posted by judabenhammer:
I always used the term hacking when trying to get something to work they way I want it to work.
getting the server to send audio messages to my cell phone. (hacking the pbx or emmail client)
uising the VCR to backup computer data.(hacking the VCR)
Posted by _DogShu_:
We already use geek somewhat interchangeably with hacker.
As one word is changed to have negative connotations, perhaps another can be changed to have positive.
Posted by DaoniX:
:( The need for a new word is more than evident.
If Code Warrior wasn't taken by a windoze app (ported to Linux, but still), I'd select that
Interestingly enough, computer, up until the 20th century and for the early part up till, meant one (an individual humanoid) who computes--such as one who manually computed firing tables for heavy WW1 and WW2 artillery...during the end of world war 2, the old ENIAC was conceptualized and constructed as a way to quickly and accurately compute these firing tables. Today, we know computer as that wonderful little box.
I guess, for the most part, definitions need to be updated as time progresses--unfortunately the old meaning of hacker has been obsoletized by modern mass media.
Posted by Foochre:
Hackers have always been called hackers.. It would be an insult to our ancestors to rename ourselves. Journalists _can_ be educated, you know..
Posted by Hk_Silver:
hyuck hyuck... I kill me. alright now that I had my fun I'll leave.
Posted by godfreynix:
Guru was used over 300 years ago, by the Sikh
community in India, and still (at least in my English dictionary) means -
revered leader, spiritual guide
Posted by A.W.O.L.:
Well there you have it then:
If you're not a coder, which would you rather be called, a geek or a hack?
I don't code but PCs are likewise my life too. Once word travels that the label "hack" means computer enthusiast, and not "hacker", we're set.
I call myself a hack right now and intend to spread the above definition.
** Right now I'm leaning towards writing something in perl to put together phonics and see what that can come up with. **
k e-0.1.2.tar.gz
Actually, I have already written one in C++, and have the source code available on my home page.
You can get the source code at:
http://ww w.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/5389/wordma
I have written this using the Standard Template library, and GNU glibc/libstd++. Hopefully, it can be compiled on any system.
In any case, my choices for the concept would include Code Caster, and Cybrid.
--
The Penguin Producer
This is more from someone that has a lot of time on his hands, but I think this might help some people grasp the enormity of the situation facting all hackers and the public in general today.
First, I will say that Hacker is no longer a simple term to describe one type of person. It's now a blanket that sadly covers all computer-savvy individuals. This is because, following the invention of the Personal Computer by Woz, the archetype split into several major categories.
The first, and currently the most persecuted archetype, is the True Hacker, commonly referenced by the titles of magi (Acolytes to Wizards/Gurus). These are commonly programmers and power users. They have a social structure that is now heavily intwined with the Free Software/Open Source communities, and is referenced entirely on how much is given to the support of all. This could be interpreted as a new and more successful form of Socialism, without the inherant flaws of the government-controlled form used in the olde Soviet Union. In this respect, the most valued members of this community are seen with awe, simply because their givts are among the most ubiquitous. The GNU tools, Linux, and Perl are the most obvious examples.
The original split was two-way: The True Hackers previously mentioned, and the Dark Hackers. Dark Hackers are the original programmers of the newly-developed personal computers. Because of the cramped conditions of those computers at the time, these programmers mastered the use of machine code and assembly language. Due to the concept of a "Software Licence" at the time, these hackers followed a path that was deemed illegal by software companies... breaking copy protection. The practice was personal; the dark hackers did not practice simply to redistribute the software; the Warez Doods, which came after, did this. Dark Hackers actually found the task challenging, almost like a strategy game against the companies; they develop protection, the hackers found ways to circumvent them.
Following the Dark Hackers came three new types, which exist to this day: Warez Doodz, Script Kiddies, and Criminal Hackers.
Warez Doodz were often the siblings/friends/associates of these Dark Hackers. Warez Doodz had one remarkable hack of their own; they developed the distribution networks throughout the countries that delivered the freshly-cracked software to millions of people worldwide, and was able to exist, regardless of the legal actions to prevent them. The infrastructure was mostly destroyed by the Crackdown of 1988 (or was it 86?), and still managed to rebuild itself to this point, where Clinton now is effecting a second crackdown.
Script Kiddies are the most common type of break-in artist of the digital era. They use software developed by the Dark Hackers to break into other computers. They do not know how to program, and commonly don't know what to do with the information when they get it, but they continue to practice their activites, while commonly answering to a society of their own, whose most revered members commonly refer to themselves as the "3733+" (eleet). This structure is a hierarchy, where the requirements for reaching a new level is to break higher security. Kevin Mitnick is considered among the higher ranks of this hierarchy; since I don't frequent this society, I can't really tell for sure.
Criminal Hackers are just scary. These are the computer-savvy individuals who knowingly commit crimes using computers. The crimes are not computer-related; basically theft, sabotage, threats, even espionage (sanctioned by some government or not).
Many of the reformed Dark Hackers now frequent a new category: the Sceners are the least-noticed of the Hacker Hierarchy. Sceners' only crime is simply nostalgia. The sceners maintain an ever-growing collection of hacks, information, and ideas for the platforms long since rendered obsolete by today's standards. It could be said that sceners are the most resourceful hackers in history, since their own hacks must, by design, be integrated with systems that cannot ordinarily be hacked; the Commodores and Apples of yesteryear definately apply here. Sceners are also the most ignored of the entire collective; they are considered by many as to be as obsolete as the machines they work with.
It is now said that the media has picked the Script Kiddies, the Dark Hackers, and the Criminal Hackers as the scapegoats for the name "Hacker." This is because these groups produce more news in a week than True Hackers produce in a year. (Well, sensational news, anyways). It would be a good idea to keep the moniker of "Hacker," just to remain in the hierarchy, but it's time to define our branch as it should be. Okay, we ARE hackers. But in a single word: What kind are we?
--
The Penguin Producer
You cannot justify breaking a law. Breaking into someone's system is a computer crime. If you think the law is unjust, _CHANGE_ it. Isn't that what's so great about America? We have freedoms, that includes the freedom to change an unjust law. The problem is it won't get changed.. Because it would open a million loop holes for script kiddies.
:) Hackers are curious computer enthusiasts. Nothing more, nothing less. They enjoy finding out the hard way, instead of being told that's the way things are.
Justifying breaking a law is just as complex as justifying creating the law in the first place.
Law is applied and enforced opinion. Nothing more.
It comes down to this: if you are going to break the law, are you going to do it for ethical, or unethical reasons. If ethical, what is your motivation for calling said action ethical?
If you can do that, then by all means break every law you can apply it to.
"Hackers solve problems, crackers create them"
Crackers find problems, not create them. Someone has to have a hole in their code so that a cracker can exploit it. If you want to get really technical, the hackers themselves create the same problems they fix.
So many people seem to think that getting root on someone else's computer just to "explore the system" or "gain information" or "gain expirience/education) is OK. There's no harm done in exploring the system, but if you want to do that, ask the sys admin nicely. If he still doesn't let you then too bad. Explore your own system.
While this was not the case 10 years ago, I agree, in today's technological society cracking root on another system is not really needed to learn about a system.
But it should also be noted that a lot of older sysadmins would be making hamburgers at McDonalds if they didn't do just that. College isn't for everyone, some people actually enjoy learning by example and creating their own solutions, instead of doing what professor joe tells you is correct.
And before I conclude, it should be noted that no duty to privacy will ever conquer the curious mind.
After all, wasn't it curiosity and a drive to investigate that turned you on to Linux? (if you are a linux user)
-Erik-
xyz-Guru is fine, if you need a specific term, as in UNIX-Guru or similar. It fails as a general label, though. How about the Babylon-5ish "Technomage", or the more cyberpunkish "Technomancer"? I think they both have white meaning and they are more in-style then "Whiz-Kid" or "Whiz-xyz"...
First offenders should get the nice version (just the definitions. etc.).
For repeat offenders, try to take advantage of the liberal press's penchant for political correctness: make it clear to them that they are using hate speech every bit as offensive as "nigger."
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
If a theologian can understand that part of the language, why the [deleted] can't a journalist?
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
..as Mel, from the Jargon File..
Of course your kidding. Hacker is a subset of programmers and coders. A guy who writes OnMouse events in javascript for webpages is not a hacker. Wizard and guru two words that have often been used, but these are on the other extreme. These are hackers that are better than your average hacker. I think we all need to come over the jargon file and see if we can resurect some less used word, with a little background, instead of inventing new terms.
The problem with foobar is it's root in FUBAR an acronym many people know means Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition.
'Geek' is highly pejorative -- it describes a physical and mental disability.
'Nerd' is better, although it still fails to do what 'Hacker' does so well: describe the fact that we're hackers because we hack, not because we were born into a social group.
If we can't use 'hacker' -- which would be a pity -- perhaps 'coder' is okay. I hate it, though; it's not meaningful.
-Billy
Put some suggestions in a poll...
I suppose Wizard would be good, if I get to be a Wizard too. In my mind Wizard has always been reserved for people like Linus Torvalds or Alan Cox. I like to think that I am at the very least an aspiring hacker, but a Wizard. Maybe in my next lifetime.
I would certainly agree that we need to come up with some sort of a moniker, however. Nothing personal to RMS or any of the other Free Software Folk, but hacker needs a replacement for much the same reason that Free Software needed the alternate Open Source title.
It's all about marketing.
It is all right to refer to yourself as a hacker when you are among hackers, but it takes too long to explain when the boss or a customer is around.
A worker of magic? ;)
---
Live Long & Prosper \\//_
CYA STUX =`B^) 'da Captain,
Jedi & Last *-fytr
Perhaps as "Sourceror." I like "TechnoMage" but
then I'm a B5 fan. I like the earlier "Code Poet"
designation as well. Maybe TechnoMage could
cover hard/soft/wetware and Sourceror could more
specifically address coders. Regardless,
I think we must cede hacker as a casualty
of the culture wars. Maybe we
can reinforce the terms with pointy propeller
hats and robes with pocket protectors..
[-- Trust the Monkey --]
Perhaps spread the habit of making the word `hacker' a link to a correct definition. Here on /. it may link to everything, and elsewhere to any definition - an article on the same site, or everything, or the jargon file.
How about 'Darth Hacker'?
;-)
"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare."
--James Madison
These are a couple that I've heard bouncing around, that tend to be more specific than "hacker":
Cowboy - someone who risks a jury-rigged solution for lack of other options, or comes up with a creative solution to a problem that others wouldn't have thought of.
ninja - usually preceded by a skill. For example, "database ninja" or "Perl ninja". Describes a truly hardcore specialist, someone with mad skill in a particular area.
Wah. The connotations are of mad skill.
It's in use anyway, just not as broad a term as "hacker" (and I didn't mean to imply that it should be.
At any rate, I think this whole debate is highly amusing... People have been trying to force appropriate usage of "hacker" for years. What makes them think they can get everyone to stop using it in its original sense?
No no, that's niggas', not "niggers". Theres an important difference.
Yes. This will be an article about Hackers, Crackers, Linux and GNU/Linux. First I nead to tell you of an aparently unrelated incident. "Carl Johnson" is a DJ with thew stage name "Profesor Nuts". He is quite good ( Think "Wierd Al" or Marty Robins with a strong base line ).
:). How about if Hackers called themselvs "Techies", "Nerds", "Computer Geaks", "Internetworkers" or soch ?
:).
Back to the insident at hand. He walks into the bank with a cheque writen in the name of "Carl Nuts". There is of course no such person. However the bank accepted it. His drivers license and other ID say otherwise, but this didn't bother them much. Common Law ( A British Comonwelth concept ) is that a name is valid if most people use it, regardles of what official documents say.
This brings us back to Hackers and Crackers. Back when I was yung ( early teans ) and kept tabs on the script kiddy sean I learned that a Cracker is a person who modifys binary software ( to remove shareware limits forinstance ) and opens encripted files. A Hacker was the goy who breaks into computer systems. After I grew up and got involved with Linux and real work I found out a Hacker was originaly the solver of unique problems. A position of high esteam among the technicaly aware. Onfortunatly most of the media dosn't know this. The children don't know it either ( except for the few who are involved in real net building stoff ). In short we are outnumberd and only a tiny fraction of the world know of and accept the true meaning of "Hacker".
So what shuld we the hacker comunity do about this ? Shold we fight it at every step of the way ? Shuld we demand that the word Hacker only be used in an apropriate context ? In my opinion we shuld just give it up. Find another name for ourselvs and let life continue. An example of this is with the term "Gay". This once ment happy and cherfull. If I was around in the 50s I wold have been proud of the title. These days everyone thinks Gay means Homosexual so I am caling myself a Player
With GNU/Linux There is another levle to the complication. RedHat and SuSE sell Linux distributions while Debian and Stampead sell GNU/Linux distributions. Technicaly they are all the same and RedHat eaven included more GNU software in the production base system than Debian at one point ( Gnome ). However they chuse to call the whole package "Linux". Is this an isue ? To some members of the GNU project it is. To others it isn't. Linus T dosn't eaven want to discus it these days ( Some excuse about a Kernel to work on
To make matters worse, Once Hurd is compleat there will be a full GNU OS out there. ( Yes Hurd will be finished... Eventualy... I think ). So what wold They sell it as if it became popular ?
SuSE Hurd V-9.1
:)
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
I don't know what we should call ourselves, but one thing that annoys the heck out of me is when people call me a "hacker" meaning the cracking of systems, just because they know I am involved with computers. It really is one of my pet peeves. I'll keep watching to see if there will be any results of this question.
Nah 'foobar' is too similar to FUBAR which means Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition. I can't really think of a replacement other than 'code pimp' or 'code guru', anyone else have an idea?
How about acolyte?
I liked the idea of an acolyte being sort of one who is in training and always learning. It kind of fits doesn't it? Check out the Jargon File for the "official" definition.
----------------
"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
That's not likely to help. The people most likely to read the RedHat Linux Bible are people who already know the correct definitions.
For most of my expereince, the word "Hacker" can be equated to Coder in the majority of situations. But this leaves out the hackers who don't really code much, but still qualify as hackers (ie network hackers, admins etc). Perhaps this means that coder is a subset of hacker. which isn't nescesairly true as I've been so rudely reminded by people who are coders but say they are too elegant to be hackers.
/. readers we are forced to come up with a new word to add the english language. Preferably it should be something not in other languages so it can be universal. My first thought was for Quizibou, but then I was reminded that according the Book of Groening (Season 2, Episode 3 I believe) that it is a big fat dumb bald North American Ape who is quick to anger.
Geek might work, but lets face it, most of don't want to be confused with half-life geeks. So although I can take pride in the fact that I am a geek, I don't want my business card to say geek on it, although hacker or coder would work well.
Also, despite the fact that most of us like having the word pimp in our names (code pimp, web pimp, system pimp, crypto pimp), I don't think it would be the best choice for a change. Could you imagine CNN referring to Linus Torvalds as a Kernel Pimp and Rasterman as a Desktop Pimp?
Wizard and Guru seem a little arrogant and will disturb the suits and subsuits that most of us are forced to work with. They seem to have a hard enough fact calling us geeks, calling us a name that makes us sound rightfully superior will crush their fragile egos.
The problem is that we are searching for an exact synonym where none exists. Thus loyal
My other choice for a hacker synonym would be "snergle" (which is the name of my junk variables while coding), however a friend quickly informed me that snergle sounds way to much like fraggle. And while the fragles were cool and jolly, we don't want to be confused with them. So I'm willing to take suggestions. I need to get business cards printed up soon and the head boss isn't thrilled about me wanting hacker on my cards (I didn't even ask about "k-r4d 3733+ haX0r"). Right now I'm leaning towards writing something in perl to put together phonics and see what that can come up with.
My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
Just goes to show how most people think on /.
For all those people that are complaining about the rest of the world misunderstanding them,
I suggest that they realize that golfers used the terms "hacker" and "hack" long before computer
hackers.
Computer hackers are already guilty of misusing the word as much as the media.
What goes around, comes around...
-slew (computer -and- golf hacker)
Tinkers were also the early traveling "consultants" who could and would fix or build just about anything.
Always thought that Tinker was far more approriate than "hacker" with all the lugauge that the term carries nowdays.
-boone
I don't think we should ever give up telling people about what we mean when we say hacker. It's a perfect word for what we mean by it.
You can see from the other posts that there are several meanings for 'hacker' that have nothing to do with computer software, so what the hell? If we choose another term, aren't we just admitting defeat to the ignorant media forces?
By the way, I have been using the term 'we' loosely. One of the reasons hacker is perfect and 'geek' or 'nerd' isn't, is that I qualify for geek or nerd (I have a 4 node network at home with a Mac, a Linux server and two dual-boot Debian/Win98 computers) but I don't qualify for hacker, since I have no programming skills.
Keep using the term hacker, keep educating people as to *our* meaning for it. Besides, don't tell me you don't get at least a little enjoyment from the looks on people's faces when you tell them you're a 'hacker'?
Cheers,
Matthew
Uh, I think Gary Gnu was part of the "Great Space Coaster" show, not the Muppets.
Yesterday it worked; today it is not working; Windows is like that...
The word "hacker" may have a negative ring to it to the general populace, and so you might think of inserting the term "good hacker"...
The same thing is happening in other things too. Witches and satanists are coping with the same problems. Some witches call themselves "white witches" to discern themselves from the stereotypical witch, as some hackers might call themselves "good hackers" to discern themselves from the stereotypical hacker. But that's not the solution. I know. I'm a witch, and I'm a hacker.
Yes, some would call me a white witch. Yes, some would call me a good hacker. But I'm just a witch, just a hacker. Even though the general populace holds negative images regarding those words, I prefer to call myself a plain witch, a plain hacker, a plain nerd.
A real witch knows there is no such thing as good or bad witches. A real hacker knows there is no such thing as good or bad hackers. There are just witches, and just hackers. Who cares what the general populace thinks.
)O(
the Gods have a sense of humor,
Never underestimate the power of stupidity
To err is human, to moo bovine
Bingo. That is THE way to solve such a problem. I'm a witch, so I'm seeing the same thing in another area aswell. The general people at large have no idea what exactly witches are and what they do, so they kind of stick to the stereotypes of the Wicked Witch of the West... Just like they stick to l337 hax0rz when they see the word "hacker".
The way to dispel such ignorance is through information. Tell them what you do and what you don't do. Teach them what your ways are. And slowly but steadily the general idea will start to change, and the mainstream media will start to catch on. Just about now we witches are finally starting to break through the problem in the US, after half a century. In Europe we still have a long way to go.
Hackers probably won't effect a change much faster... Count on at least few decennia before the word hacker is finally used correctly by mainstream media. But it'll get there.
)O(
the Gods have a sense of humor,
Never underestimate the power of stupidity
To err is human, to moo bovine
it reminds me how those famous windows bugs, problems, shortcommings, ... are solved (ussualy renamed to "feature" and then another "features" are made to overstep previous ones).
hany
We know what the words mean. Who cares what the uninitiated think?
Granted, it's currently used to refer to Unix sysadmins more than programmers, but there's a pretty big overlap between the two groups.
Most geeks I know have trouble with women...how about "whackers"?
When asked for a brief description of what I do for a living, I say "professional computer wizard". Most understand, then some say with unintended irony "Oh. Can you stop hackers?"
exactly.. what is wrong with "coder"?
what is to say that any person is just one of these things too?
when you are coding, are you not a coder?
when you are hacking at code, are you not a hacker?
when you are cracking (your own site, ofcourse) are you not a cracker?
How's about the origin of the word's derigotorialness (is that a word?)..
when you take your slaves out and give them a good beating with your bull whip, are you again not a cracker?
if you prick me, do I not leak beer?
someone borrowed my two cents...
--
Marques Johansson
displague@linuxfan.com
Marques Johansson
hows about Code Jedi? or Codi Knight? or Code at Night, for that matter?
Hacker Plus? Real Hacker? Hacker 2000?
maybe Call the H6x0rz - L77Ti35 (pardon my french - Leeties)
or for the really good ones: Kung-Fu Hackers/Crackers?
Magi Crack/Hack?
or we can just jive the press into believing in th unicracker? mad cracker? damn cracker? gram cracker? grand master hacker? bran muffin?
--
Marques Johansson
displague@linuxfan.com
Marques Johansson
...we have a perfectly nice one, we just need to steal it back. I think there is far to much meaning imbued in the term "hacker" to replace it easily. Much like other marginalized communities have taken derogitory labels and reappropriated them as a badge of pride (I'll let you think of your own examples here), we should do the same. Of course we have the advantage that the label "hacker" was a badge of pride to begin with :)
Well, I've always liked "hacker". And I don't have a problem using it.
I don't call criminals "crackers", I call them "lusers" -- you know how it's pronounced. A "cracker" is a poor southerner -- like the guys in the band.
"Wizard" is cool, but I agree that it's reserved for people hackers idolize (e.g. Linux and Cox). "Wizard" works fine when hackers are talking about other hackers, but to the general public it sounds like Dungeons and Dragons.
"McGyver" is cool, but I think implies someone who is just intuitive about how things work -- it can't be compressed into just programming or anything else. You have to be a SEAL or something to be called "McGyver".
Here's my submission (actually, my girlfriend's). She has no logic behind it, but she's pretty sure no other group is using it. Here is goes: "Jujabu". I might start using it.
"Whatever can go wrong, will." --Finagle's Law
I know the common computernerd-difference between cracker and hacker.
But somehow, I am sorry to admit that I prefer the term "hacker" as a network intruder (in the public media) and a computer-guru (in the nerd-media).
By using the term "Cracker" as a "network intruder" (silly name, okay!), I feel that we give some disrespect to the guys in the C64-culture, that cracked a lot of games, and maybe has about nothing in common with what-we-usually-call-"cracker-not-hacker".
Just my 0.02$ worth of why not to call a current cracker for a cracker. Don't forget the C64-crackers!
- Peter Brodersen; professional nerd
The term geek is still taken to be a demeaning term for intelligent outcast (nerd has worse connotations but that doesn't matter) . This is bad. I, although a general social outcast, do not get beaten up or anything jocks are seen to do geeks (these are the first images people think of). I am accepted. Why should I demean myself by referring to my self as a geek when I am really a hacker(more of a script kiddie but that term just plain sounds dumb.)
Twenty-four hours is a long time. One hour might be better with out swamping them and would help to better achive our point. Recieving one hundred sixity-eight protests representing thirty thousand people in a week is a lot better than thirty thousand protests but still gets a big point across.
Another interesting Slashdot feature concerning this would be to have an option in your preferences to automatically protest everyone in a database of misusers managed by Slashdot itself. Of course all submitions would have to be verified but how hard can that be?
A little pun on locksmith.
While a locksmith makes and installs locks, he's also called in to open locks when keys are lost or on the (at that moment) wrong side of the lock.
Although it could spark a divisionary pretitle thingy, what if we were to take a word such as Da'Shain (from the Wheel of Time series) and prefix hacker to it, to to emphasize the intended usage of the word. Although you could just say "I am the White Hacker of the North" or something I guess. I find a particular intrest in this however. There are many different kinds of people who can be classified as hackers, in different fields and different styles, under different pretexts, etc. So, saying that you're say, a "Da'Shain Security Hacker" would be like saying "I'm one of those guys that beats the shit out of my own systems to try and make sure I can't beat the shit out of it". It's close to what alot of people I know of do, they say they "benevolently hack" or something that only the most media-worshiping mind could mistake as sarcastic irony.
I notice that alot of people don't seem to assosiate the cracker definition of hacker when people say they are art hackers, or automobile hackers, or that they hack around with . It's only when used in the digital sense that they find this queer idea. These same people also tend to get nervous when they see these people who present themselves and nice -and indeed kickass- people get near a computer of some sorts.
I believe I may take psycology courses in college. If I do I will probably try to attempt the biggest mindfuck hack the world has ever seen to fix a few million people's heads.
I'm as mimsy as the next borogove but your mome raths are completely outgrabe.
Personally, I like the idea of trying to save
"hacker"...but I also suspect it's a lost cause.
Once "the media" have an idea in their heads
there is no shifting it - unless they want to,
which in this case they don't. Even though they
are prepared to use a new name for "black people"
every seven or eight years.
One tactic not discussed: leave both hacker AND
cracker behind. With the current media
fascination for the "cyber" prefix, "cybervandal"
seems an apt name for what the media calls a
hacker and we a cracker. In light of an earlier
suggestion, I rather like "sourceror" - a pun on
sorceror, suggestive of mysterious knowledge, and
also a pun on open source! Not to mentions a
worthy successor to "wizard" - which is, I think,
the word that would most logically succeed hacker.
Personally, being in QA now, I go by "software
entomologist". But I'm a sourceror when I get
home.
Maybe we could get some pointy hats. Maybe we
could get Linus to put on on Tux... =)
-- Larry Smith
Why don't we pick up the ball from Pitr and call ourselves Zlotniks?
Actually 'hack' means a shakey patch or bolting on of a patch. Examples of this is Microsoft Word 98 for Macintosh Platium Look (kind of just added to Win Word 97). Another hack would be kind of quickly bolting Internet Exploiter to Windows 98 just to force users to use Internet Exploiter.
Hacking Towers are towers built for Eagle Nesting, build out of cheap wood, quickly nailed or hacked together.
Hacking has a cheap sound to it, but I still like Hacker, since Hacker is a respected name, and is well understood by Computer-savvy people over 40.
Crackers == Script-Kiddies/l33t wAr3Z3rZ
Last week I got so tired of this I send a note to Senior ZD editor Michael Fitzgerald. We had a little exchange and in the end he told me that ZD had decided to make Hacker = Cracker. The reason was that Cracker meant someone from the deep south and not a Nice term.
3 07.html. We've decided to
Here is the exchange
Dear Bjorn,
My euphemism for crackers is hackers. If I made up another word that wasn't
hacker and wasn't cracker, I can only imagine the e-mail you'd send. We've
also gone through this on our site in the past. See
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/content/zdtv/0519/317
use hacker exclusively.
Sincerely,
Michael Fitzgerald
Senior News Producer
ZDNN
------------ Previous Message from Bjorn Stadil on
06/03/99 03:34:30 PM ----------
Please respond to bjorn@stadil.com
To: Michael Fitzgerald
cc: letters@nytimes.com
Subject: Re: Hackers vs Crackers
Dear Michael Fitzgerald Senior News Producer ZDNN
CC: William Safire New York Times Language Maven
Fm Bjorn Stadil Offended Software Developer
Re: Hackers vs Crackers
This makes no sense. Who are you trying to avoid offending? This is the
equivalent of using the term "Non custodial parent" in a story about the
economical plight of divorced children not finding the term "deadbeat"
appropriate. If you don't want to use profanities make up another
euphemism. Coining new words normally gets good "press" so you should be
motivated. The only problem is that it takes a fair amount of intelligence
and
insight. I took the liberty of copying William Safire hoping he would
include this issue in one of his undoubtedly excellent future columns.
Sincerely Bjorn Stadil
Michael Fitzgerald wrote:
> I'm well aware of the difference. But to the typical US reader,
'cracker'
> is a pejorative term for a rural Southerner. Not an appropriate thing to
> throw at people until it spreads beyond the hacker culture.
>
> Thanks for your note. We do talk about these things, and comments from
the
> outside world do influence our decisions.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Michael Fitzgerald
> Senior News Producer
> ZDNN
>
> ------------ Previous Message from Bjorn Stadil on
> 06/02/99 10:50:11 PM ----------
>
> Please respond to bjorn@stadil.com
>
> To: Michael Fitzgerald
> cc:
> Subject: Hackers vs Crackers
>
> Dear Sir
>
> Try and get the terminology straight.
> Hackers = good guys likes programming some make open source software.
> Crackers = Not so good guys Breaks into systems and makes the Government
> look as stupid as the Government are.
>
> --
> Sincerely Bjorn Stadil +1 972 470 9160
> bjorn@stadil.com
> http://www.QuickXML.com
>
>
Help fight continental drift.
You obviously aren't a hacker.
--
The way I see it, most of the stories that use the terms improperly are pointed out by one of the many /.ers and they seem to end up being posted in some form.
The way I see it, most of the stories that use the terms improperly are pointed out by one of the many /.ers and they seem to end up being posted in some form.
I suggest that we simply look for an email address that is meant for content feedback and employ the /. effect to show them how wrong that they are. For instance, the next time that CNN runs a story about hackers bringing down the FBI network, a link to http://www.cnn.com/feedback or cnn.feedback@cnn.com could be listed as well. Then, we could all email them and inform them, politely of course, of their misuse.
Perhaps a couple thousand emails would teach them a lesson.
--pcOooo-kay.
The way I see it, a typical title for this scene has to have one pun in it, whether good or bad (eg WINE, Pine, and all the rest..)
So how about;
Sorceror.
Obviously, it's a play on source, but it also is analogous to "wizard", as suggested earlier; and sorceror has overtones of creation-of-things rather than destruction, making it more clear what we are on about.
Might be a bit too Tolkienesque, but I'd like to hear what people think!
While it slurs the "original" digital meaning of "Guru," as far as the public are concerned, it's new, fresh and has a positive slant. I get called a guru all the time - I guess none of these people've ever met a real guru...
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
'sysadmin' is one I like. Maybe too specific,
but gets the point across.
Miles Lott
You can't get a new CDROM for your box at work, because the process requires you to justify all yadda yadda yadda... (you only get that far in such restrictions before getting bored, usually)? What do you do? You find the guy who has the cdrom and you get it directly from the source. This is a process hack, something that computer hackers generally excel at, but can be done by others too.
What about the car hackers? Guys who do insane things to their vehicles which pretty much parallel oil-bath motherboard cooling in terms of whacked-out performance goals.
Hacking is something that can be done whenever and wherever it needs to be, and it doesn't require computers to do. All the computer-centric terms people have come up with will never be able to match the depth of the term as it stands. So USA Today doesn't get it? They never will. Just hack around them :-)
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
just as some blacks in the united states have reclaimed the word "nigger" for their own use, i believe that we should reclaim the word "hacker" for our use. we all know the denotations and connotations. i don't mind being negatively identified if, as was said by someone else who replied to this posting, that gives me the opportunity to point out and correct someone's misconceptions and/or ignorance.
Cast off the use of slang; use a title that accurately reflects what you are doing: Freelance Software Developer.
In the commercial writing business "freelance" work is often done with the hope of somehow getting paid for it. Sometimes freelance work is commisioned in advance; if the work is good, it is accepted. This is effectively what hackers are doing.
The term 'hacker' has always had unspoken meaning in the sub-culture of hackers. To me it implies possibly kludgie, amateur, or social; in general, it conveys humility (sometimes falsely, sometimes unnecessarily). Programmers need not be demure with the general public, nor include them in the sub-culture; therefore, the best thing to do is use plain english with the public: freelance software development.
The best way to get *writers* to stop using the term "hacker" is to complain to their EDITORS. Really, editors HATE the use of slang in mainstream journalism. If you complain loudly it will be an embarrassment for them and they will *demand* revision.
To me, the issue is not whether someone owns the word hacker; but, whether someone can identify you in the public's mind as a social pariah, and have unpleasent thing happen to you. Witch hunts happen, and for political reasons. Why stand in the way of a coming train? Just to prove a point?
The term 'hacker' will be -- is -- used against freelance software developers in bad ways. Among friends, fine; with the public, be cautious.
Now that this one is out, I'm particularly fond of it. So that is what I'll call myself from now on!
.sig to follow....
Changing my
Northeast USA Computer Show Schedule
http://www.vermontel.com/~vengnce/shows
It is amusing to see so much effort expended into coming up with a term to make us all feel better - to make us feel like we're part of some elite. Heaven forbid that we're thought of as a programmer. Hell, some MSCEs might be described as a 'programmer' too. The shame of it!
Hey people - this is linguistics. Stop ranting about how 'hacker' means a cool talented programmer, and not someone who tries to 'crack' systems. It means, and more importantly, has meant, both, despite all your protestations. Anyone who says otherwise is just rewriting history so they can avoid being affected by the negative connotations of 'hacker'.
The statement that 'kludge' is a 'bad thing' or an 'ineligant(sic) hack' is yet another example. Kludge is a derivative of the German word "kluge", which means clever - ie. the original meaning is a clever hack.
Enough with the neology - just call yourselves programmers, and live with it. Is it really worth all this introspection?
This argument is about as pointless as arguing whether to use the word "disc" or "disk" - now, that's one that will run and run.
Tim (Programmer)
I've long been a fan of the SF novels of Vernor
Vinge. In some of his books, the underground technologists were called "Tinkers". I always liked the concept of the Tinkers and think it would be a fine substitute for "hacker".
Jim
Hacker does not necessarily imply a high level of skill; there can be (and are) inept hackers.
Instead, Hacker refers to what we do -- explore, experiment, stretch the limits of our knowledge and experience.
Hackers are the people who take apart the kitchen radio to see what's inside. Hackers dis-assemble software to see how something was done. They build web pages just to use a new HTML tag. They write code to see if they can get the computer to do something. They put marshmallows in the microwave and try to build time machines. They buy padlocks and try to pick them with a paper clip. They know exactly what it feels like to put a 9v battery to your tongue.
The defining characteristics of a Hacker are that they are:
Sometimes these traits lead a person to trample the rights of others -- dismantling your parent's radio, sticking a 9v to your little sister's tongue, breaking into a bank's computer -- most often harmlessly, but occasionally doing real damage. These are rogue hackers: crackers.
Just as the general public has a rough time distinguishing rogue cops from cops in general, bad teachers from teachers in general, and so on, so do they have a problem separating crackers from hackers.
I'm not sure what a good replacement would be, but I think it should be something that brings to mind -- for Hackers and the general public alike -- the important qualities of the average hacker.
The best, I'm afraid, that I can come up with is Exploratech, but I'm not worried. I'm sure someone will come up with a suitable term.
Stupid people will be persecuted to the fullest extent allowed by law.
I've used the term "gearhead" to describe myself and my affinity for computers.
But, I like the term bithead a lot. Bithead, bytehead, diskhead, CPU-head, nethead, webhead, codehead, OOPhead, Javahead all could be possibilities. Maybe codehead would be good.
It would be nice to make a term that obviously applied to free software fans, but not to MS-Access drudgers.
Linuxhead? GNU-head? Penguin head? Devil head? Daemon head? Tuxamaniac?
Just a little brainstorming here...
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
We shouldn't come up with a new term and we shouldn't give up on educating people about the cracker/hacker distinction.
Don't think that public perceptions and language can't be changed. Where we once had "colored" and "black" people, we now have "people of color" and "African-Americans. Where we once had "American Indians", we now have "Native Americans". Why shouldn't hackers be allowed a slice of the PC pie?
I personally resent like hell the fact that journalists in the popular press have misused our term and I don't think we should give up on reclaiming it. Instead of trying to find a new term, we should be trying to map out a new strategy. Maybe I'm being naive, but I'd rather fight than switch!
--JT
Sure, "hacker" has taken on a pejorative context in the mainstream. But one of the aspects of any non-mainstream culture (if you want to call it that) is a private language -- a jargon. When you use that term in public, it's a litmus test. Those who know let it pass without incident, those who don't immediately think "War Games". I use it all the time in job interviews -- if they misunderstand the term, they're probably not the sort of folks I'd want to work for.
Remember "punk"? 40 years ago it meant an inexperienced kid or a male prostitute. Now most people immediately think "orange mohawk, nose ring". The mainstream meaning of the term has clearly changed.
On the other hand, most people still think of punks as violent, immature anarchists, when in fact many of them are pacifistic, intelligent anarchists. Some of them aren't anarchists at all, but rather socialists, or even Green party. In fact, as with hackers, any attempt to describe the group as a whole must fall short. In the end, most of the population is going to accept some received, "lazy" definition and let it sit. People can only handle so much information, and the nature of "hackers" is just not a subject most people are going to feel any need to understand.
You want people to understand exactly what it is you do? Tell 'em you're a computer programmer or a sysadmin. If you want to get creative there's all sorts of good, slangy terms: "bit wrangler", "console jockey", "computer geek", etc. A friend of mine got his workplace to put "Adeptus Technicus" on his business cards. It's your work, you come up with a description. If it catches on, bully for you. Doesn't mean we have to agree on a new set of terms
I do have to agree that the term "cracker" seems awfully derivative, and prone to cause confusion. A lot of people probably will assume you're talking about po' white trash. Certainly I never use the term... I tend to use "script kiddie" most of the time because that's what 99% of them are. I'll also occasionally use the highly technical phrases "loser", "jerk" or "dumbass" -- after I've had their ISP account shut down. Someone who can actually crack systems with skill, ingenuity and knowledge is a hacker as far as I'm concerned. A bit misguided perhaps, but nobody ever said we all had to be alike.
$_="06fde129ae54c1b4c8152374c00"; s/(.)/printf "%c",(10,32,65,67,69,72, (74..76),(78..80),(82..85))[hex $1]/eg;
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
srgbsfg
-- ----------------------------------------------
Vive le logiciel... Libre!!!
lets all send email to... to news sites such as msnbc, cnn, fox news, and all of the other major news sites saying that we would like them to use the term "hacker" correctly. If every slashdotter send 1 email to each site, maybe could get at atleast noticed.
Just a thought.
if I remember correctly from my 2600 days...
8Complex
When people find out I am a computer wizard (hey why not use that word?) they ask me if I am a "hacker", at which point I either say "no".. or say "yes" and explain it to them, it is usually easier to just say no.
This would just be perfect..
"HEADLINE NEWS: Hackers bring down abcnews.com, zdnet.com, and cnet.com"
It would just blacken the word even further.
if another calls you a hacker, what do they know about hacking?
if a hacker calls you a hacker, what is your next hack?
if you are called, what is your return value?
Coder: I like it, and it suits me. But as was said, some are hardware hackers. And besides... not everyone who programs is a hacker. (Especially if they 'program' in HTML. Ugh!)
Programmer: Not only does it fall victim to what's above, it's dry!
Wizard: Well... I like it... especially because of the possible Who reference. But it sounds too egotistical to me. Also liable to be picked up by crackers fast. Not liable to be picked up by media in a negative connotation, though!
[Computer] Geek/Nerd: These are old terms, very old. Both derogatory. I'm willing to and do use them, but I don't think everyone is by any means.
Tech[ie]: A good general term, but... I don't think it should be used to describe the real hackers.
Wetware: Programming isn't a matter of thought for me. I've been doing it since age 5 (if you count batch files and/or basic), so my brain runs like a VLSI chip. Sort of. I imagine it's similar for a lot of the real good coders. You don't think... you simply know. But... the term, however accurate it may be, sucks and will be snapped up by the PHBs real fast, and not in a good way.
Code pimp: I like this one, it makes me laugh. But no, for obvious (I hope?) reasons.
Camel rider: In honor of Perl? My favorite language overall.
Code Jockey: Nah. Sounds too much like techie, and a little diminutive.
Wizard, for all it's downside, is looking good to me. As much as this sounds like a sucking-up-to-Rob type thing, I think there should be some sort of poll-like thing. Slashdot is arguably geek central, and as such about as good place as any. But there has to be a better term out there. Anyone want to invent a word?
Conor
Programmer, Consultant, Geek, CTYer.
Umm.. A 'dork' is a whale's penis ... I don't think I'd want to be associated with that term .. :D
.. a trivia mailing list - http://mailbits.com/
I read it in a mail a while ago from Trivia@MailBits.com
Delphis
*ROTFLOL* .. I love the phrase '"The Monitor-tanned elite."' .. just had to say that altho I hate 'me to' posts :)
... so that's right out :)
... ick!
Btw, 'LUSER' means 'Loser USER'
ABWRARHNL sounds like you're clearing a nasal congestion
Delphis
and a cracker is a cracker. I make a point of spelling out the difference every now and again, and I'll keeping doing it--and encouraging my buds in techno-journalism to so so as well until people start using it correctly.
Steven, Senior Technology Editor, Sm@rt Reseller
I'm a "Codologist".
Setting his threshold to 5, Sparky eliminated most of the trolls on /.
If you're a geek too, call me a "geek". If you're not, call me a "techno-weenie".
If using the term hacker incorrectly means getting your e-mail server swamped I think there will be some insentive for thease people to get a clue.
What does it matter?
I know...wanker!
That's it...
Wanker!
Buzz Lightyear
how about "the bird herd"? ;-)
That gets a definite vote... if only it didn't imply that you only use your own code (poets rarely take other poets poems and change them, other than in parodies (if parodies exist in the poetic world)
In Sweden, we've got a great word for it..
"Datare", kind of like computerer or something like that in English...
In the same vein, wouldn't Code Magician do?
Jimmy
-- Fast, Cheap, Well. Pick two.
I've never heard geek used to describe a mental or physical inability. Perjoritavely, I hear it used the same way as nerd, except maybe a bit stronger. 'Geeking' is an increasingly frequently used verb in my circles, used to describe the act of waxing passionate about linux, IPv6, crypto regulations, or other typical /. subjects.
In my mind, the only difference between nerd and geek is that the latter -must- where glasses, and it's optional for the former. Since I wear glasses... 8-)
Besides, I don't see why we should 'reclaim' the word geek any less than the word nerd - both are gradeschool/highschool terms to describe the a subset of the population that most of us belonged to.
--Parity
'Card carrying' member of the EFF.
That usage of 'cracker' is about analogous to 'darkie' to refer to a black person. The origin is 'white as a [georgia] cracker.' I'm sure that the rural southerners who get labeled with that appelation would be just as happy for the meaning to be diluted.
--Parity
'Card carrying' member of the EFF.
Don't bother telling 'them' anything. What is a 'computer nerd' anyway? Someone smarter than the average joe who knows his way around computers. This is something to be ashamed of? 'Computer nerd' is just a perjorative version of the 'computer genius' that computing-challenged mothers, S.O.'s, assorted friends and relatives like to throw around when they're bragging.
Same meaning, different implications - but y'know, I think that anyone who thinks that being smart is something to be ashamed if is a someone who's opinion is not worth worrying about.
(And yeah, I know, it's easier to say than to do with shifts in internal reactions to things like that, but just try telling yourself, every time you hear that, 'nerd==genius => he just complimented me, but thinks he insulted me.' I think it'll help.)
--Parity
'Card carrying' member of the EFF.
My oldest friend on the planet is a news reporter. We used to go around and around on this one. I finally gave up and told him he wins. And he does. The word 'hacker' has been well and truly pejoratized.
When I got the chance to order my business card at a startup company that hadn't standardized its job titles yet, I convinced the CEO to let me have the cute title "coder". He wouldn't approve most of the more imaginative ones other people tried to get, but he let mine through because he thought it was an accurate description.
Of course, I can hear all the spooks out there groaning at my suggestion-- but I say, screw them. They knew the job was full of random indignities when they took it.
jhw
To grok something is to understand something at the deepest levels. So.. how about Groks?
After all of the media attention crackers have received under the name "hacker", there simply isn't a way to set the public straight.
Rather than coming up with some completely new word, it'd be best if we just started referring to ourselves as one of the many terms synonymous with "hacker". Personally, I think "geek" would work best -- although it too has received a bit of a negative connotation for some members of the less computer-savvy crowd.
I don't even think we can call the mainstream media journalists(at least with a strait face :-). In the mid '80s I wrote to Time Magazine about the abuse of the term Hacker. I got a letter back that effectively said that their writer was more of an expert than I was. At that tine I worked for a small company and my title was "Hacker" (Yes I "Was not worthy"). The company ran an ad for a hacker and I was the only person who they interviewed who had built their own computer (a pre IBM PC Z-80 Godbout S-100). The real point is that the media is more interested in sound bites and catchy headlines than accurate stories!
Spelunker is someone who goes into caves. The caves of code? just wondering, meme
an enigma wrapped around a paradox driven by a paradigm shift
Not being anywhere near a hacker (in any sense of the word), but having had a interest in computers since I was knee high to a grasshopper I have always felt that the term hacker has referred to both hackers and crackers. I have always taken the term cracker to refer to a subset of hackers which the "good" hackers wanted to differentiate themselves from.
That's a good idea. I agree that Slashdot should provide such a feature. Could anyone hack some Perl to do this and send it to Rob?
Gergo
computer vandal
e-vandal
evandal
V4nd3l
gibsonite
I think this will be a good way to call ourselves.......
Its come from Latim, and refer to the *Digital Elite*...
I am a hacker, but I do not tell people that I use programmer analyst. It is more "Politically Correct". I am after all programming. I just have to 'hack' at the code sometimes to get it to do what I want to do. Most computer 'geeks' are actually hackers, including admins, and programmer. YOu 'tweek things to make them work. If you want a name how about 'tweeker'.
Only 'flamers' flame!
i've had Code Poet on my business cards for 3 years now.
Synergies are basically awesome, and they're even better when you leverage them. -PA
So you're willing to engage in fisticuffs about being called a name (more properly, not being called the name)? This is slashdot, not ultimatefighting- you've already proven enough about yourself.
According to my dictionary, it is "orig. echoic of unintelligible cries", with the implication from later meanings that the geek had some mental disability. We use enough technical jargon that we're still unintelligible to many, so perhaps that's appropriate! ;-) Regardless, before it got to English, it came to have a meaning more akin to "fool", with a certain vulgar theatrical connotation. Since in English it came to describe a vocation, it seems appropriate to us. The negative connotation mostly has to do with the low social status of geeks, and despite Bill Joy's Ferrari, that hasn't changed much; we're still pariahs as far as mainstream society is concerned.
"Geek" is a title I have embraced firmly. Notice that Copyleft has "geek" t-shirts. (I own one, but I'm currently wearing a GNU shirt). As more and more people embrace the term, it comes to describe someone who is technically knowledgeable and skilled. I think we're taking back the term, and I don't take it as an insult. "Nerd" doesn't yet imply any sort of technical skill, so I haven't embraced it as fully. If "geek" remains in some ways perjorative, it's because mainstream society does not sufficiently appreciate those with technical skills.
I also consider myself a hacker, but I don't use the term among people who don't know me well. Even then, I tend to qualify myself: "I'm going to go home and do some Perl hacking", or "I'm going to hack together a program to...". I don't put "hacker" on my tax forms as my occupation. I particularly expect the government to misunderstand. Then again, most crackers describe themselves as hackers, which is the real root of the problem. The media can only be condemned for failing to get independent confirmation of this. ("He's no hacker! He's just a script kiddie!")
German, close to equivalent in literal meaning (hewer). Anyone in Germany care to comment?
;-)
(I may be biased; my grandmother was a Hauer)
Otherwise, I'm content with geek.
After reading 'Heavy Weather' by Bruce Sterling I gained a better understanding of the term 'Hacker'. In the book no one was called a Hacker, but everyone who was anyone 'hacked' something. Be it networks, credit cards, phone systems, satellites, software, cell towers, whatever. You weren't looked upon with the tinest bit of respect unless you could 'hack' something. That would make everyone 'Hackers'. I think it's a fitting term. You can used the other descriptions to elaborate on the basic 'Hacker'.
The term "code weaver", while accurate in its depiction of a programmer who creates thread of code and constructs something from it, by stringing the pieces together in a (more or less) orderly fashion, probably won't catch on. The popular media likes to latch onto terms that single words, and strike an imaginative chord. Look at the term "hood", usually meaning a robber or criminal. Then remember Robin Hood, and see whose side you're on.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
I suggested Code Weaver earlier, knowing someone was going to make a reference to old song (which I like, btw). Another term that denotes "industry" and might be more acceptable to the prefession of hacking... and it is a profession, have no doubt of that... would be code smith .
I'm a StoryTeller, but I find in my dealings with the corporate mindset, they respond to Word Smith better. Maybe that could be borrowed for the hackers' needs.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
Coder.
If people ask you if you break into white house computers, it's a good way to start some conversation about what you do and clear up the misconception at the same time.
Not all hackers are 'coders'. Some just want to know the in's and out's of systems. Some just want to know how certain things work. I've known many 'famous' hackers/crackers from back before the onslaught of the script kiddies, generally all they wanted to do is find out how and why things worked the way they did. This argument that hackers are supposed to be called crackers, is stupid, i've never heard a hacker refer to himself as a cracker. Crackers defeat software copy protection. Arguing about it here won't make you right or change anything.
Jarod
Jarod
I use the term "Computer ethuseist" or
"Computer Zellot" depending on the situation.
I do not let go of the term Hacker however...
"I am a Computer ethuseist or as we prefer
'Computer hackers'"
But then I've more reasons than one to preserve
the terminology...
I am also a writing hack.. I write storys no one
publishes.
It's worked for me so far....
I don't actually exist.
Yup. The media is too powerful, and the use of "hacker" to mean "someone who does bad things with computers" is far too well entrenched in the main stream media. Unless the cracker community (yes, there really is one) decides to call themselves something else, the media will continue to refer to them as hackers.
Personally, I say we (the real hackers) try to convince the cracker community to accept a term that sounds better than cracker. I personally think "Cyber-jacker" sounds both "kewl" and trendy enough for the media to pick it up when referring to security breaches. Unfortunately, most crackers refer to themselves as hackers. Especially in the media.
Whenever Emmanuel Goldstein (founder of 2600 magazine) does an interview, he calls both the cracker community, and himself, hackers. There was an article on CNN (sorry, I'm not going to dig up the URL) that was a dual interview with EG and IBM's head of security. Both of them should know better than to refer to crackers, script kiddies, etc, as hackers, but throughout the interview, that was the only term either used. IBM's head of security even said that all hackers engage in illegal activity and should be arrested and prosecuted. (Don't have the precise quote, but it was to that effect.)
That shows that even someone who is a hacker (in the true sense) has been "corrupted" by the media.
Another non-functioning site was "uncertainty.microsoft.com."
The purpose of that site was not known.
Tim Berners-Lee is a masterful computerist/hacker/wizard but he is not a coder. Tim designed HTML and HTTP but except perhaps for some prototype code, he left the actual coding of Web servers and Web browswers to others. Point is, not all really cool computer persons like writing code, so "coder" is a poor name for "really cool computer person".
"programmer" suffers from the same problem, but less so.
In San Francisco, non-computer people tend to refer to computer people as "computer nerds". Friend of mine has "computer generalist" on his business card. In the privacy of my own thoughts and writings, I refer to myself as a "computerist".
We can't pick the word to redefine. We can't pick a new definition for an existing word. It's way too late for that. We need a new word, that is also catchy enough for the media to pick up on of their own free will.
"Hacker" is off limits... it's already defined in the minds of millions (or billions). "Cracker" is already defined in the minds of billions. As are "virus" (computer program of infinite malicious power), "program" (magical thingy that can do anything), "Web" (aka the Internet, a magic place where people make money), and "Microsoft" (an innocent company that makes great software (it must be great because everyone uses it)), but those are seperate issues. Only a new word can be made to mean what we want it to mean.
Though I pessimistically point out that it will in all likelihood be treated as a new synonym for "hacker"/"cracker" within a week of its first use by the popular media (if it even gets that far).
Like the subject says... If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
_______
2B1ASK1
it sounds good to me, but "code dork" might be more accurate...
/. "News for _NERDS_"
IMHO dork would refer to a wider community of the computer obsessed... video gamers, irc addicts... webaholics, and more specifically those who abhorr real life for said pleasures...
then again... why is
hmmm...
jedi hacker, samuri programmer, computer mentat, code warrior, etc etc...
they're ok... but wayyyy to romanticized for me...
hmmm, "queer" and "fag" are generally considered only appropriate to use if you ARE in fact homosexual, even Allies are discouraged from infringing on the "ownership of language" (trust me on this one, i know).
;->
Simmilarly the `n-word` is another much stronger example of the "ownership of language" by a minority... it's origins (negro) aren't that offensive either...
heck, we're a minority... so why not... deem it RUDE and INSULTING to be called a hacker, unless by another hacker...
good luck pulling it off tho
I guess at this point, there is so many comments nobody would even listen to my suggestion. :P
A 'hack' means a ingenious piece of work that gets the job done but doesn't necessarily works in all cases (i.e correctly). The term 'hack artist' already exist, Rob Liefeld comes to mind. In this case, a hack artist is somebody who is talented in the works of art but has no formal training or discipline.
Naturally, a 'hack coder' refers to someone who is a knack in programming but does not require formal training or discipline. All he or she has to do is read the f**king source.
coder - regular joe programmer
hack coder - more specific than hacker
wiz coder - Larry Wall, Linus, etc
poser - wannabes
My 2 bits
Rod_Z
programmer
computer geek
computer nerd
wiz/hack/joe coder
codesmith
code/software hacker
loser/poser
hacker is a hacker is a hacker
I like it. "Bit Monkey" has an awesome ring to it.
Wirehead is what I call myself at times.
I want to live in a box like the Dixie Construct.
If enough people hit submit, how about every 24 hours send a message saying "In the past 24 hours, X people have filled out a form at http://www.slashdot.org protesting your misuse of the word 'hacker' in your atricle at http://www.foobar.com/baz/etc." And continue with the correct definition of the word, quote from the Jargon File and such. Conclude "We chose this form of protest over other possibilities to avoid damage to your mailserver from recieving X emails in under 24 hours."
-----
kernel: lp0: using parport0 (polling).
kernel: lp0 off-line
kernel: lp0 out of paper
--
perl -e'$_=shift;die eval' '"$^X $0\047\$_=shift;die eval\047 \047$_\047"' at -e line 1.
Yeah. Grokker. As in, someone who groks (code/computers/techstuff/whatever).
(If you don't grok grok, look it up in The Jargon File.)
(or howsabout glurker...? Naah!)
Ooh... I can't resist:
Got Grok?
--
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
I use 'Wizard' amongst the non-technical. It is much more likely to be correctly intrepreted. In a mixed crowd, I will qualify it so I don't appear to be claiming so-and-so is a semi-demigod (in the hacker meaning).
With a non-computer crowd, I won't use 'wiz' much, mainly because it is too close to 'whiz', which has other meanings, but is also a slang term for urinate. I remember a very funny cartoon showing a fed-up programmer peeing on his printout and terminal, with the caption 'Computer Whiz'. (Doesn't sound like it would be funny; you had to be there.)
Alan Cox's diary page self-describes him as 'Kernel Hacker'. 'Kernel Wizard' is also pretty accurate - and less likely to be interpreted as evil by the uninformed.
I don't think this will be easy to fix. Unless we advertise the correct definitions on Jerry Sprin*er or the Super Bowl the average computer user and the media won't change over easily to the correct definition.
After reading a few posts, I think we need to have us e-mail all the main news organizations and tell them. We need to put something about who we are in the e-mail to give it some credibility. Whether you are a Software Engineer, Admin, just love coding and do not not topple governments computer systems, etc.
Maybe we could put a list of VIP's up that we could e-mail and then all at once we could send them professionally written explanations of what the terms mean and see if that helps.
I still refer to myself as a Hacker around my IS colleagues but refrain from saying it around upper management and the average Joe due to the way it might be taken. As a solution to that problem, I do not believe it can be done with a new word. It will probably just take a long time.
It does not really bother me having to refrain from using the word "Hacker" around certain individuals. In my profession, I have to change the way I talk to explain very technical things to non-technical people all the time.
MBrod
Given this and the fact that very few outside the "white knight" hacker community refer to anything positive with the term "hacker", I think the best thing to do would be to start using some other term than "hackers" for us "white knights"... I always thought the "hacking" term was a strange one to choose for quality coding, anyway...
That said, I don't like "white knight hackers" either! It should be short, not glorifying but still be easy to associate with something positive and constructive.
Haha! Same here. I run Linux on my office desktop machine, I have to fix Macs all the time, and I help administer a Solaris server, yet I'm still the "Windows guru". Did I miss something here... ?
Hey, I've often wanted to try that. Do you know of a way to encrypt the data into a video signal? I suppose you could turn the data into a movie then re-import it using multimedia programs, but that seems really inefficient and wouldn't take advantage of the available space for digital data on a videotape.
On a related note, I think /. is actually restricting the proper definition of "hacking" a little too much. It can refer to using objects in a clever and original way. Setting aside the flaws the show had, could we call MacGuyver a hacker?
Once I used a child's microphone and connected it to a common boombox, which I then set to "record" on a nonexistent tape. Because of a quirk with this particular boombox, it was possible to turn its volume all the way up and use it as a preamp. The eight ohm speaker outputs were fed into a larger stereo. Thus we had a surprisingly decent quality PA system for absolutely no money. That is a hack.
"darth vader" = "dark father". (Swedish?)
I agree. A few mainstream news sources -- CNN, etc -- have recently explained the labels "hacker" and "cracker" correctly.
How about "coder"? It's short and simple. It has the benefit that non geeks would instantly know what it means. A drawback, though, would that it might be used in reference to non-hacker programmers or even HTML designers.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
FUBAR = Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition
;)
I'd rather not be called that . . . maybe it's just me
Four hundred pages tell the tale of three distinct generations of hackers, from the sleepless disciples of the late fifties and early sixties to the software stars of the personal computer mania of 1982-1983.
Hundreds of personal interviews and direct quotes truly define these obsessed disciples and their integral role in modern history. Truly this is an epochal work.
Exceptionally well-written, well-researched and inspiring, this work is an absolute must-read. One can only hope that the dream of the Hacker Ethic will not remain within the pages of Steven Levy's masterpiece, but be spread throughout the computing community.
Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution by Steve Levy, is a book for everyone.
Read this book.
Rigger....
I ate my tag line.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
Postal?
Phone Hacker.... You know the guy that do it for the cause, against mainstream telco's prices.. But Phreaking is pretty much dead now adays becuase they cost the companies a couple hundred dollars in real life.. No phracking is a real skill becuase it's like 80's cracking (which should be concidered hacking) becuase of the lack to tools, you have to figure it out for your self and program all your own tools.
I ate my tag line.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
I swear these self proclaimed "Hacker", aka script kiddies, need to read the Hacker Ethics text written up years ago. I think it said you won't be evil and go off and screw someone computer becuase they didn't go out w/ you and stuff like that.
I ate my tag line.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
You are right, it has alot of meanings..
What is the action word for what a butcher does.
Well there are 2 I can think of, Chopping and Hacking.. Hacking in that sense mean to break down, so in that light crackers are hackers, just another meaning of the word.. If you don't believe me, look it up in an older dictionary.. Becuase the new ones just say evil computer whiz kids that screw up your systems... And script kiddies are not hacker in that sences becuase it's like blowing over a house of card, to easy and it was bound to come down becuase it was so fragle..
I ate my tag line.
I ate my tag line.
-=Ellis (D)25=-
I'm not a Hacker (well maybe a little Cobol and Fortran in many years past) ..., I'm to old and dusty ... to be a programmer. I believe programmers should always maintain the handle, moniker, alias, label, .... If you're a good programmer (do it on your own, personal hobbie, or just for fun and R&R for money or ...) then you're a good hacker (Nothing criminal, just a work, career, and/or lifestyle). What a hacker can do with a computer, monitor, and keyboard is near to Vegas Stage Magic (the best).
Now myself I call a pecker (due to my keyboard skill), this is the same as all news/media/TV reporter and editor folks. We are lame in our understanding of the MoJo, Mumbo-Jubo, Wow Geek-wiz (stuff we say when sucking up to the masters of Technology References, Experience, and Knowledge (TREK)) magic stuff.
Then I have heard of Crackers. Criminals (Seduced by the dark-side of the TREK-Force) of the Technoverse reality who use tools (which were developed by the honorable Hackers) for criminal (or bigoted purposes) purposes.
I here there are Phreakers (Alos, seduced by the dark-side of the TREK-Force) that use phones illeagally for personal stuff and to gain access to places they ain't supposed to go.
I volunteer Whackers for internet warriors and/or terrorist who do cyber/virtual invasions of other countries/companies then their own.
I volunteer Shackers for those that attack/betry their own countries.
I volunteer Suckers for those that attack (Act to, recommend, invite, praise murder and destructrion) other humans and the environment (like the anti-abortion folks).
I volunteer Tackers for those that just sit around and surf the internet (include some of the media and government folks).
How about Fackers for all the x-rated (maybe the Anti-Free-Speach government types should be included).
Okay maybe Backers for supporters of Technology, Free-Soft/OSS, Human Rights, and the Environment.
Anyway Hackers are Hackers, Hackers ain't any of these other types (except maybe Backers of a little better world).
Have Fun - May you attack with great glee & finesse in your mind.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
I like Neal Stephenson's use of the term "supreme ninja mage lord," although that seems a bit wordy.
I call the stuff PoetC.
Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)
We actually -shouldn't- shy away from it. The word is defining part of our identity, and giving it up would be partly giving up just that, despite whatever connotations have been attached to it.
;) When you can't beat them, join them!
The best way to get rid of those would be to carry the Hacker name as if it were the embodyment of our pride and glory, so to speak. Sooner or later the message will come through. It has happened before.
For instance, in Holland, during the historical timeframe commonly referred to as "the Spanish Revolution" in wich the-then-still-joint nation of The Netherlands/Belgium won freedom from Spanish rule there was a group called 'de Geuzen'. The Spanish had invented the term to refer to them. It actually was meant as an insult, but they took the name and made it their banner! In the end it had lots of positive connotations (still does) wich can roughly be described as similar to the ones attached to Robin Hood - adventurous (seafaring) rogues, almost heroes, fighting for freedom.
I feel we could achieve the same if we stich together. In fact, I think we should try to enhance our image by deliberately trying to enhance some of the cliche's attached to our culture. Sortof like "embracing and extending" standards.
Floris.
--- Your superiour intellect is no match for our puny weapons
1. code-monkey
2. Eckel's "software craftsman" (http://www.BruceEckel.com)
3. memetic artisan
I'm not sure what kind of engineer you are, but software engineers (the type of people who are always ranting about how cool OOP is and who would never dare to write code in C) probably share your connotation of the word "hack."
:)
The reason hackers think differently is because the reason that "clever hacks" are cool is that they are tend to be anything other than obvious and probably take a bit of thought to understand what's going on and why it works so well. Of course, software engineers don't give such code much respect because of the fact that their workings aren't completely transparent; this makes it more difficult to maintain because your average "programmer drone" isn't going to be able to comprehend it.
On the other hand, lots of hacks do sometimes tend to be overly specific. For instance, someone might write a program that's blazingly fast, full of lots of extremely cleverly written code. But, if they eventually want to add a new feature, it could involve a total rewrite.
Has anyone else noticed the animosity between hackers and engineers? Hackers typically value being able to sit down and code anything -- QUICKLY. Engineers value being able to stand up at a whiteboard and diagram and make EXTREMYLY insightful design choices. Hackers typically hate people who think about coding more than they actually code. Engineers tend to hate hackers who will code for days without thinking about how it fits into a project or how it will be maintained after they leave. (anyone who has tried to add features to 10 year old code written by an especially brilliant hacker has probably felt the pain of realizing that all those clever hacks are useless since everything will need to be rewritten to make it work with more modern systems.)
Anyhow, that rant was probably off topic -- we were talking about whether or not to dump the word hacker in favor of a newer term. I think not. Hacking is a very important part of our folklore. Also, although most people who call themselves hackers these days are nothing but "script kiddies," hackers have also always been interested in getting around obsticles. There will always be a (small) subset of true hackers who also happen to bend a few laws every now and then.
By the way, is there anyone here who think that the kind of person who will spend his/her free time trying to break copy protection schemes really has much in common with a w4r3z d00d? Back in the day (remember BBSes?) it was rare to find a person who ran a w4r3z board who also knew how to get around copy protection. The "crackers" who could do this were usually far more interested in the challenge of the crack than the game itself. I used to crack alot of games, but the only reason I even dealt with w4r3z d00ds was so that I could get my hands on the newest games so that I could be the first to figure out how to crack it. Hell, cracking a game is much more fun than actually playing them
Anyhow, I guess my point is mainly that the media's depiction of hackers isn't entirely incorrect. Hackers will always be people who enjoy solving difficult problems and getting rid of limitations. I, for one, would be pretty upset of the word "hacker" was thrown out. (wouldn't that kind of like that cliche having to do with a baby and some bath water?)
Well I am 16 and get ribbed for being a "Computer Nerd." I tell them that I am "not goofy, dweeby looking guy who sits with pocket protectors and taped glasses." And that they should "stop judgin people with 2-deminsional terms." So I go for the term "Guy who knows coding, computers, and loves it, but isn't involved with illegal crud." Seems a little long, but there's no way the media can screw THAT up.
Beau C
It used to be that a cracker was some white poor person living in the south. This is no more. Now it's used among the geek community as a term for a Techno-ish Criminal! Hicks can no longer hold thier heads high... *sniff*
> Another example is the word "Exterminate" from
> the Doctor Who television series. This word was
> invented and yet became so popular it was
> eventually acknowledged by the Cambride [sic]
> Dictionary.
Um, my Merriam-Webster dictionary seems to
think that the word "exterminate" entered the
English language around 1591. That predates
the Daleks by a slight bit, don't you think?
But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
But my grandest creation, as history will tell,
Was Firefrorefiddle, the Fiend of the Fell.
I use this word.
Or I used to anyway.
It can backfire:
Our CFO is always asking me to "McGyver" up a new report for him nowadays... I infected him
[We don't come from a planet. We come from a grid sector.]
that was legible. (I think we have stumbled on a way to tell the hackeren apart from the rest, even though a decent moniker eludes us.)
(-8
^D
-- open source? sounds like the real book --
.
-- open source? sounds like the real book --
I agree - there is no reason not to accept mainstream.hacker==slashdot.cracker && mainstream.hacker==slashdot.haxor So use "code hacker" or "C hacker" or "linux kernel hacker" or "webpage hacker" or "unauthorised access hacker", and be aware that mainstream hacks (Journo's) will not make much of a distinction. Folk who grok will figure from context.
I play string bass in a Jazz band. I describe myself as one of "bassist", "string bass player", "upright bass player", "double bassist", etc depending on context and audience. I don't flame people who don't get it first time.
-- open source? sounds like the real book --
their is already a word for people being both hackers and crackers: Samourai. But i think it mainly report to these being hacker and being paid to audit the security of a computer network by cracking inside.
Personnaly i think that somebody can be called both hacker and cracker only if:
1) his hacker activity is the most important of the two.
2) he don't use pre-made programs (otherwise he would be a Lamer) but crack to know more about computer security
3) he don't use well known attacks/DOS/... but try to crack using new methods so it can help finding bugs
4) he let some instructions on how to protect the network.
5) Of course, he don't destroy anything not necessary to erase the traces left by his intrusion (log files)
I view the term hacker like a compliment and the adhesion to a technical culture (for computer hackers) and a mentality. If people being hackers begin to crack other computer in an un-ethical way (not helping people but just annoying them) then I find no reason to call them hackers.
BTW: Lots of crackers like Kevin Mitnick aren't that great genius in computer science but are very good social engineers (it's sometime easier to have people telling you their password tahn cracking their encrypted password).
Just my 2 cents.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
I'm a "Technical Prima Donna" and quite happy about it thank you.
-- More Smoke! The mirrors aren't working!!!
coder does not completely replace hacker.
yes, when I'm hacking code, I'm hacking. But when I'm hacking on a project in my garage using a blowtorch, a car battery, jumper cables, and a sheet of lexan, am I coding?
"We are not tolerant people. We prefer drastically effective solutions"
For some reason, I always thought that "cracker" was kind of a latter day invention and that "hacker" originally could refer both to someone with a skill and love for elegant coding and to someone who broke into secure systems (at one time, these traits were more closely linked than today). So, it's not wrong to say that your box was hacked, right? This was one of the original meanings of "hacked", "cracker" is the (less popular) mutation.
a geek is interested in a subject that has productive value while a nerd concerns him/herself with subjects that have very little real-world application
Ah, but where do dorks come in?
-S
Well, I have succesfully fled Germany, but:
;-)
"Hauer" sounds more like someone who frequently beats up other people ("hauen" = old fashioned for "to beat")
Not sure wether that would be a suitable alternative to hacker
I personally think this whole thing is overrated. *Words can have more than one meaning,* people.
When I think of a "hacker" without context I think of someone who breaks into computer systems, and the fact is, most "non-nerd" people understand it that way only. When I hear someone call Linus Torvlads a "hacker" I know they mean someone who likes to code (for lack of a better short description).
When I think of "Cracker" I think of a hacker in the first sense, but one who destroys data, and generally malicious. They may be a good programmer, or they may just use netbus. They are not necessarily a Hacker (although they probably call themselves one)
You are never going to be able to change the way that the word is use, and more than that, I don't think it *should* be changed. A hacker is someone who loves computers, and likes to explore them. The general public probably only knows about the small subset of hackers who are interested in computer security (usually getting past it). I don't think of it as a pejorative at all.
Also, I don't think that we should be forced to change the word used to describe us. "Coder" works well, as does "nerd." We are hackers, however, and we shouldn't have to change that. The best thing I can think that we can do to try and change the *connotation* of that word is to *use* it. Use it a lot, when you're writing on slashdot, or if you have a chance to give a quote for the mass media (if you're a public figure). Let the world know
With things like Linux in the spotlight, it's our chance to let the general public know about the other meanings of the word. We are never going to get the mass media to stop calling computer crackers "hackers" (and there *not* wrong IMHO). If we can get the media to call us hackers to, then our meaning will get out as well.
Ideally we'd want to see something like this in time magazine: "Linux, an open source operating system created by hackers (not the same kind of hackers who break into computer systems). Has finally beaten Microsoft windows on the...."
All we have to do is educate people. But there not going to change the words that they already know...
Btw, another problem with trying to get the word "crackers" used is because they call themselves hackers. I think we should call malicious hackers "Dark Hackers." I think it's a cool enough sounding term to be used, and it resolves the conflict. What do you think?
Wow, that was a long post : )
---------------
Chad Okere
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Wow! it's just like SPAM, and that dosn't piss people off at all!!
if you want to change someones oppinion, yelling at them is not the way to do it. just beacuse you feel somthing is wrong dosn't mean it really is. you relize that don't yo?
---------------
Chad Okere
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I called myself coder when I was in a demo group. Why? Because coders did a different job than a bbs op, a swapper, a gfx artist or a musician. If people nowadays think that "hacker" is a too general term, they should use "coder" instead -- if they are coders! I don't think that you gotta a be coder to be able to sketch some logos and throw in a few lines of java code. So, I think it's okay to use "coder", if someone is really a coder. You know, someone who has coded some megabytes of proggyz...
--exa--
I sort of cringe when I hear that we should give way on such ground. "Hacker" has been (and deserves to be) a word that is extremely positive. I'm hesitant to "call uncle" quite yet.
.02
Yes, pejoration does occur but we've never had a medium like the internet to combat such misappropriation. This is our forum for cripes sake!
But somewhere deep in my heart I sort of know that it's already lost - already too far gone. If I had to choose an alternative, I think it would be "white hacker". This can, almost without explanation, convey what we want it to.
my
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
Marksman wrote:
...let's say "dongling". To say someone is a "dongle" (heh) is not only descriptive but also a HIGH compliment. Let's then suppose that "dongle" takes on a negative connotation. Now, you hear, "get out of my way you $@#!ing DONGLE!".
So you say "I slashed away at some code" instead of "hacking away at it." Big deal.
Suppose that you are in a community that prizes
Since there is no other word to heap praise and status on one of your own, what word do you use?
Quux26
My
Quux26
www.crashspace.net
..when I'm talking to partially techno-literate people (those who may have heard the word "bit" before). Sometimes I have to even lower life-forms than this. If they need a label for me, they can aome up with their own (usually "techie").
To all who think "education" works:
I am sure it won't work at all; hacker will always be assosiated with a criminal, something bad. Just look at villian or demon(or daimon= originaly something good). The language is something dynamic, it evolves and changes. Don't you also hate the language police ?
Give it upp, let a new word evolve
If you feel it's important to keep the word hacker why don't you go back to prehistoric languages for that matter, it would more correct in your resoning wouldn't it ?
De lyckliga slavarna är frihetens bittraste fiender, legalisera!!!
Sure, the hacker/cracker misusage is widespread. My roomate, who knows better as I've done everything but Chinese Water Torture to educate him on the differences, STILL refuses to use the term cracker for "malicious system intruder". His reasoning? It's what he's always called it, it's what the media calls it, so that's what it is. What can you say? Screaming up and down will not change this fact. The media will continue to misuse the term, come hell or high water. I say its already a lost cause. The people offended by misuse of hacker are not an oppressed minority, so you're not likely to get any ACLU help if it is ever taken to legal extremes.
It also hurts that the crackers themselves refuse to refer to themselves as crackers, instead using the Hacker monikor. I guess this would lead to yet another miscommunication in which the overly Anglo-Saxon "cracker" population would not be taken seriously.
"SO, what are you?"
"I'm a cracker."
"I can see that, but being white has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.."
However, change that to:
"So, what are you?"
"I'm a hacker"
"Oh, that's cool. Go Cyber Cowboy."
and suddenly you have some basis for communication. Of course, you'd have to change that to "1m 4 h4x0r" or something equally inane and deserving of death, but that's another question to be dealt with in the Primary education system.
Now, if you're a kernel hacker and steadfastly refuse to yield to the fact that whenever you
refer to yourself as a hacker that people immediately think of Matthew Broderick, well, why not just call yourself a "Programmer"? Everyone knows what a "Programmer" is (although there might be some confusion between a person who hacks Perl scripts and someone who determines what television shows to expose your kids' minds to) even though it's about a romatic a concept as, say, burger flipping. Consider it a job hazard. Like carpal tunnel syndrome or the sun.
Personally, why not just ignore it? The more you let it eat you up inside, the more it takes away from you doing something useful, like hacking. You know which usage I'm using. The sooner you realize that 99.9% of the rest of the world has no bearing on your happiness, the better for you.
Have a great day!
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
I have neither physical or metal disabilities and I'm more than willing to prove either.
Seriously, geek is only a negative term in context. I'd say its less negative than jock or hacker or nerd.
This is not the greatest sig in the world, this is just a tribute.
I was telling some non-computer friends of mine what a hacker really is. I explained that a hacker is not someone who breaks into computers, merely someone who is good with them. They kind of accepted that. I went on to say that someone who breaks into computers is a cracker. They laughed at me.
I was sorta puzzled. But then I managed to understand. To them, a cracker is not a person at all. To them, a cracker is a salted food you put in soup. Saltines come to mind. I don't think most people can call mischevious people crackers for this reason.
Seriously, we don't need a new word for hacker, we need a new word for cracker. I propose calling people who break into computers penetrators. If that don't sound right, what about haxors, breakers, or walkers. Anyone know of anything better?
--
Enough is enough. Let's defend our turf.
--
You should call yourselves g.h.o.d.s. :)
(Pronounced with a silent h)
Standing for:
(g)ood (h)ackers (o)nly--(d)uh...
Back in college, I was talking to him and he asked me if I was a hacker. At the time, I was still in my professional infancy and I associated "hacker" with criminal activity, and said as much.
So, he said, "Oh right. A hacker's a guy who breaks into computers. You're a hack -- just a person who's good with computers."
So, how about we adopt the term created by a layperson? Then perhaps the laity will be more likely to adopt it. :)
hacker == criminal
hack == guru/wizard/correct "hacker"
I guess the grammar's not right, but I thought I'd mention it. Other alternatives include guru, wizard, paragon...
Hmm... tough one.
I find myself talking of 'hacking' (in the destructive sense) to ppl who have no idea the difference between a hacker or cracker
as someone said above 'if you cant beat em, join em'
the media wont change the meaning of 'hacker' coz it will confuse the public
why not ask the media itself what is a term they would use
Do your best, hope for the best, suspect the worst.
Bwa ha ha. "really cool computer person"? HA! Don't flatter yourself. The rest of the world considers programmers to be "geeks", "nerds", or loners. And trying to lynch off the word "hacker" isn't going to help your predicament.
If you're looking for a better crusade to join, why not try convincing people that programmers are "really cool computer people"? Bwa ha ha!!!
Oh my goodness! Someone who knows the truth! THANK YOU! Here's a brief history lesson for all you Slashdot kiddies out there.
"Hacker" originally meant someone who was adept at programming and/or the ins and outs of a system, including how to exploit said system.
As electronic systems came online, the term came to mean people who explored security through the use of programs and/or programming. People who "broke into" computer systems were, and still are correctly, called "hackers".
"Crackers" were originally people who were extremely adept at cracking passwords and or using math to crack encryption algorithms. "Crackers" has never been used to describe people who break into computer systems (though many hackers could also be considered "crackers" if they are adept at breaking passwords).
Slashdot and it's following of codeheads has been the only establishment in history I can think of that uses the term "hacker" to describe computer programmers. This is incorrect, however, so get over it.
Indeed. And, as a note, institutions like 2600 have been around far longer than your beloved Slashdot too. This crap about programmers being "hackers" is completely new, save a few dedicated discussions on BBSs and such in the 80s. See my post in other section for a history of the term "hacker".
Hacker is a word that has many sides to it:
1. It sounds cool (this is why script kiddies like it)
2. It gives off a sense of dignity, which "code monkey" just will never have.
3. It dosn't sound like a 10 year old though it up.
My submission is simply "TECH". eg. "I'm a tech." or "I don't know how to configure Apache, ask Tim, he's a tech."
I like it better than techie, because, well, it doesn't cound like trekkie. You can still say that you "hack" code, but the title, would be Tech, rather than hacker.
Ok, that wasn't too stupid, now was it?
Opinionated Law Student Strikes Again!
How about wizards? It's used by the unix ... wizards...
Uhh.. yeah.... Anyway,
Wizards were always known for their bookish style,their tendancy to mutter to themselves in some incomprehensible language about some thing they were experimenting on, about their dressing habits, their tendancy to be unaware of those in their immediate vicinity, their tendancy to be feared for what they could do if you made them mad =)
You know, the guys that do the cool stuff.
Okay, I'm sure we're all painfully aware of the origins of hacker, but I'll say it anyway.
(Who knows, maybe someone actually doesn't know this)
"Hacker" originally referred to the geeks who did a little dumpster diving outside of IBM, Bell, and Xerox, grabbing junked equipment and cutting off pieces of the circuit boards with a hacksaw. (Back when boards were mostly 1 layer, maybe 2).
It then progressed to someone who was really into programming, and was always experimenting with something or another. It then changed again because those people who liked to experiment with one thing or another also had a tendancy to want to know how things worked that others didn't want them to know.
Cracking is the art of getting into a protected system (program, network, etc).
Hacking is the art of changing it to your own design (usually involving some reverse-engineering).
Phreaking is doing it on phone systems.
I am also a true hacker.
Personally I don't really care what people would call me.
I'm usually called "How The Hell Did He Do That"
or "Oh Can I Have A Copy" =)
> and believe that every bug can best be found using 'printf'.
Right on!
Though I do use write(1, "ping\n", 5) and the like if I'm in an isr (especially if it messes with the PIC).
And I only use Windoze for Starcraft, dammit!
*wishing he could use SC under wine and have battlenet support too!*
-------------------
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice and I'll rip your ****** head off.
Wrong!
We're the guys who get things done because 99% of the world is made up of idiots.
We're the guys who make Linux drivers and write CPU emulation cores for MAME.
We're the guys who write the cool games like Moria and the myriad of MUDs out there.
We're the guys who frequently find ourselves looking at the ANSI C spec and various hardware reference manuals (the quality of which is steadily decreasing).
We're the guys who, upon buying anything that takes electricity, immediately disassemble it.
We're the guys who disassemble commercial code and then submit bug fixes to the software companies.
We're the guys who everyone leaves alone at work because we get the job done, and we work alone. (Unless there happen to be fellow hackers around, a true rarity in any company).
We're the guys who play games all the time at work and yet somehow manage to get everything done on time and in good quality even though we only work 8 hours a day (7 of which is spent playing).
We're the guys who come out of nowhere with a kickass app or game.
And the rest of the world just sits and gawks.
We have nothing against big projects. We have something against big projects full of big idiots.
We're not anti-business. We're anti-selling-crap-software-for-a-bloody-fortune.
We have nothing against requirements. They'd just better be sane.
Ego? Hell yeah!
------------------
Don't tell me what I can't do.
The thing is there are many kinds of wizards.
/dev/null?
There are the apprentices, who know how to code a few lines, the adepts, who can program entire applications, then you get into the higher stuff, like master wizard et al.
Hell, just take out a D&D book and shamelessly rip out all the MU names. I'm sure TSR won't mind =)
Wizard is all but dead in common useage anyway, so why not?
We do work in the black art of code. To the general observer, we create magic. And it is, in a sense.
Who else can defy the laws of physics (as defined by the operating system) and make something appear from nowhere or take a short trip to
We also are dealing with something that cannot be completely defined by scientific process. We're always seeing improvements on algorithms reminiscent of Melf's improved arrow or floating disc.
If you ask me, it fits to a T.
We data communications experts are sometimes called bit bashers...
Well I dunno.. I think having a woman on all fours, face buried in the pillows and waving her cunt in your face saying "do me! do me now!" makes a nice end to a Saturday well spent myself.
Just because we're hackers doesn't mean we're eunochs.
doesn't that sound a tab bit arrogant ?
I mean, calling myself a part-time hacker is something that every body could potentially understand. I part-time wizard seems a bit too similar to "god" or "All powerful"...
On the other hand, does there really need to be a term for hacker type behavior? The same psychological temperment that make one a "hacker" today was has been present in people for all of history. I don't see a lot of difference between tinkering with computers and tinkering with engines, power tools, or short wave radios. A lot of guys (and some girls too) just like to tinker with machines and to build things. I think it is one of the fundamental guy (and some girls too) behaviors that is manifested differently depending upon the era in which the guy is living. Perhaps is stems from early evolutionary selection of people who are able to hack tools used for hunting and gathering. In the future, when computers just program themselves, perhaps guys will hack quanum gravity or the space-time continuum. Of maybe they will hack their Mr. Fusions, flux capacitors, and oscillating overthrusters.
I've always liked cowboy (it's the romance of old Western pictures...), but could never picture myself referring to myself as a cowboy. Just like while I do feel I have many hackish qualities, I would never refer to myself as a hacker. Ah well, maybe I'll just have to go back to calling myself Ginger.
Packer?
Backer?
Tracker?
(etc...)
--
--
Depends on which field of "hacking" you're trying to get a word for.
If you're doing legitimate security review, "white hat hacker" has gotten popular.
If you're referring to coding, how about "foobar".
Cheers,
Thad
The Bolachek Journals
Cruftmiester
Changes aren't permanent, but change is.
I totally disagree with your definition of developer. To me, a developer is someone who isn't just a programmer, but is a professional programmer who's developed at least one full application, not just program. True, a bunch of application building is making user interface crap, but every application has to be more than that, otherwise why would people use it every day?
Right now, the public may think of "hackers" as the way the media presents them. However, consider this: There have been revolutionaires in the past that at the time were looked at as violent, dangerous people who had no good intentions at all (at least from the perspective of the "other side"). However, if those revolutionaires win the war they are fighting, then looking back, people tend to see the losing party as the "evil ones". That's how history works. It won't be over night, but it can be done.
So what should we do to preserve our name? I have a few sugguestions. First of all, any time a cracker makes the media cut, its important to make sure that news is reported properly. The mainstream isn't going to get it right for a while, but if a large number of supplentry articles show up with a different set of terminology, then those phrases will start to catch on, and the media will start using those instead.
It also might be a good idea to stray away from the term "cracker" and create a new term such as "computer vandal". Cracker and hacker sound too much alike and are unlikely to sway the population.
Also, any time a "white hat hacker" makes the news, it is important to use the word "hacker" in a white light. Don't go out of your way to dispell the notition that just because he's a hacker he's not automatically bad, but write it in such a way that it is automatically assumed that hackers are already good and its only the few bad seeds that give the bad names to a community.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
How about some really cool latin thing? It has to be something that'll catch on.
So a White Hack (no er?) is benign or benenficial and a Black Hack is malignant. If you're a White Hack you do White Hacks. I personally believe that Hacker was originally one who "Hacks" through boundaries like red tape or proprietary code. Going back to WWII, "Cracker" meant password breaker. I personally like Code Monkey and Computer Geek, though none have that poetic meaning that hacker has. You need a phrase that distills the hacker need to break artificial walls. Something like;
Deprogrammer, Code Spy vs Code Demon, Prober vs Attacker, Ferret (ed) vs Dark Ferret, Passive Hacker vs Active Hacker (Active Xer? Xman?),
Ahacker? I tacker? Eyetacker? Eyeprober? Ghost hacker vs Demonizing (Possesing, possesor?) or Daemon ... lots of possibilities (exorcize?), Geek of Darkness, (Grey, white, black) Infiltration, infiltrator, (GWB) Geek, Termite? Miscegnate? Deviate? Undermine? I say take back Cipher, but maybe that's too Matrixey.
Just a mild suggestion.
So they do a lot of "Tweaking"
Hackers deal with limits, tangled and conflicting protocols, performance hassles, creating foundations for developers. Developers make buttons, checkboxes, program printouts. Hackers make display drivers. Developers make drawing programs. Hackers make format converters. Developers add images to image controls.
:P (not counting those who cracked unix servers to learn)
Crackers?
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
iirc, phracker = phreaker + hacker
phreaker being someone who messes with phone equipment/ect
and hacker as it's know in the mainstream
it's a clarification that works well for me
Why are you all so eager to label yourselves? Why do you WANT a word that will "sum up what you do"? So you can say, "I'm a whatever" and then can be dismissed as a generic incarnation of your label. I thought people on here were in favor of individuality, and not labelling people. Personally I'm amused everytime I see the slashdot mob vainly wail "It's not hacker! It's cracker!" as if they could change the common usage of language just by complaining enough. Language evolves. Get over it. Quit trying to associate yourself with your heroes by calling yourself a "hacker," then getting upset because the definition changed under you.
And, lastly, wasn't one of the rules of being a hacker that you didn't call YOURSELF a hacker, but only other people could place that label on you?
--- Where's my X.400 protocol decoder?
I geek code for several hours out of my day.
I am a Geek of Science.
I socialize with other high profile geeks.
In my area of the nation (US) the term "Geek" is actually a status symbol.
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
"Got Linux?"
How about just "Gods"? I know that it may be a bit haughty, but think about the way that you are treated when you fix a user's problem. MHO.
Now, if someone was going to the theater and saw the title "Crackers," I think that even true Hackers would think twice about seeing this. Heck, it could be a good Spike Lee movie title;)
I've always considered the term "hacking" or "a hack" to refer to a somewhat unelegant solution to a problem. i.e. "This solution is a hack until I have more time to make a more elegant solution."
What you can do once you own a linux distrubution:
1. write programs in any language you want.
2. play games
3. host a server
4. randomly explore other people's programs.
5. use the GIMP
6. choose between GNOME and KDE
7. word process
8. on and on and on
What you can do once you own a copy of windows:
1. write in wordpad
2. write in notepad
3. play minesweeper or freecell
4. pay for(or crack) other software
I think that it's the lack of anything to do in Windows that is making kids into script kiddies instead of real hackers. Most people under 18 don't own their own computer, it's more often than not the family computer that mom and dod don't want "that linux thing" installed on.
I remember when I started using linux in '95 I had to use a combination of a SCSI-zip drive, Yggdrasil PnP CD-rom, 300 megs of HD DOS couldn't access(850MB - a ooold IDE comtrooler), and a boot floppy to load linux. That was really a pain; I was running X off of a 2x CD-ROM. This was all because I wasn't allowed to remove win3.1 off of the damned thing.
So I think we should pity the script kiddies, they need a mature operating system so they can grow up.
Not-Crackers. Or Gender-Nonspecific Network and Non-Network Security, Durabilty and Safety Providing Computing Enthusiasts? Just a thought.
spoo
Wow! "Webjacker"? That totally owns. Oh, and can't you just see Jesse Berst talking about "e-bandits"? LOL.
I refuse to admit that 'hacker' is a lost cause. While we all love the mystique surrouning that term, it has reached the point where it has been bandied about by the media so much that it no longer has any clear meaning.
In fact, I recently visited a site that distributed cracks, and it explained to me that they were 'crackers', not those 'hackers' that broke into people's sites and broke things.
The ubequitous 'nerd' and 'geek' do not suffice to fully describe the hacker mentality. I find I often have to resort to referring to myself as an 'old school hacker', as opposed to 'those punks', but this too is no longer enough.
Perhaps we need a new term that sums up the whole of hackerdom, from the late nights spent coding, to the clever fixes of your OS that come so naturally to us, but seem like magic to the uneducated.
The term hack used to mean 'clever solution'. You hack that bug in your code, you had a great idea for a hack that would restructure modern society, but it was so simple you forgot to write it down, and now you can't remember it.
Now, hack means to intrude, to destroy. People who refer to themselves as hackers to anyone but other Digirati are either laughed at, or feared.
We are the ones who built the systems that everyone uses, we live in them, work in them, play in them.
And now, piece by piece, they are taking that away from us.
So we have to fight back - but not by becoming what they see us as, but by showing them just who we are, and what we do.
A new name would take us away from the media's evil eye for a while, but in the end, the undesirables will just follow us there, and begin referring to themselves as '3133+' and we'll be back to square one.
P.
The fact that the mainstream media misuses the term "Hacker" when they mean "Cracker" really has nothing to do with us; "The Community"
Let them use the wrong phraseology, does it really affect the community? I think not. It just shows again that the mainstream media is out to lunch.
I say let them eat cake and continue to show their ignorance, it should not affect us.
We as a community of *nix users and *bsd users are accountable for the perceptions of our particular operating systems and the users of those systems. We do not need to hide behind terms, we need to ensure that the users in our community are responsible users and chastise the users that abuse the power that we are blessed with.
Just my Thoughts
Steve
To me, the word 'hacker' has always meant a cowboy-coder. It implies an unprofessional, undisciplined, look-before-you-leap approach to software development. Hacker's don't care that their code is unreadable, often thinking it really 'COOL' to name all the variables in their code after literary characters or their favourite sports teams. Hackers pay little attention to extensibility, maintainability, reliability, and quality, in general. That's why I've never called myself a hacker.
I prefer to call myself a 'software engineer' or 'software designer'. Engineering implies a professional, disciplined, forward-thinking approach to software development. Engineers think its really 'COOL' to be able to develop software that can be easily understood and maintained by developers not involved in the original work. Engineering implies that you care that your code is extensible, maintainable, and reliable.
Where hackers code, engineers design. Where hackers attack a problem, engineers analyze and understand a problem. Hackers live by the seat of their pants. Engineers live by time-proven engineering principles and techniques.
That's why I won't ever call myself a hacker.
Now that's not to say that everybody that is calling themselves a hacker today fits into my personal definition of the word hacker. Indeed, some of the best software being produced today is being planned, designed and engineered by people that call themselves hackers. I just don't understand why they are calling themselves 'hackers'.
What about the other side of the phrase "Hacking and Slashing through code"?
How about we as hackers, email every news organization in the country that we can find and explain to them in a well written (read: I'm not writing this letter) letter the subtle and not so subtle differences between the two. Perhaps if enough people mail them it could make the news. The "new/old" politically correct term for computer geeks and crackers.
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
hacking does not necessarily involve coding, as some previous poster pointed out, the "hack" on the MIT dome. Also, coding does not necessarily involve hacking. Hacking is more of a knowledge of computers and their inner workings or anything else computer related. Coder is too restrictive.
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
Perhaps we should retain hacker, and call the crackers L33T H@x0rz because the crackers are obviously more knowledgable than we are
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
I've never liked the term 'cracker', for several reasons. First, it already has several meanings, such as something you eat with cheese, or as already mentioned a po'white Southerner. I dislike using 'cracker' in a computing sense mainly because it only makes sense in comparison to hacker, and that is precisely the behavior we are trying to change. No newspaper is going to use a headline like "FBI traces origin of cracker", because it sounds like they're investigating saltines or something. So, the editor thinks, "what rhymes with cracker?" and comes up with "hacker".
To change people's behavior, we should think of a catchy term that the media will prefer to use rather than hacker. The best way to do this is to find a term that so-called crackers will use to identify themselves, rather than calling themselves hackers. Obviously, "luser" and "script kiddie" won't work, even if they are accurate descriptions. The term must be kewl, but unambiguous, obviously relating to breaking in to computer systems.
How about e-bandit, webjacker, or net outlaw? I know, those all suck, but maybe someone else can think of something better.
This discussion is exactly idea I had a couple months ago. I don't think i've used the term 'hacker' in about 2 years because of its misunderstood connotations.
So I spent some time thinking about a replacement word/idea. My thoughts soon went on to the Techno-mages in B5 who practice esoteric manipulations of technology that the common man can see only as magic. I found the imagery to be nearly what I wanted. The only problem was the elitist society practiced by the Techn-o-mage. So I decided that I might start using the term Tech-Wizard to describe what I might have normally refereed to as 'hacker'. The term is readily apparent to the non computer user and maintains a link to the old 'Wizard' without the sysadmin/UNIX connotation of the the term. The only real problem is that it is pretty clumsy sounding.
I am a hacker.
I am not a geek. Geek is too much like Dork, Nerd, Jerk, Eejit, Wanker. Maybe some people are happy to be called geek; maybe it's a word you'd like to reclaim, like dyke. But to me, it has not got there yet.
As far as I'm concerned, geek may imply computer literacy, competence with machines, and various other positive things, but fundamentally it implies social ineptitude, physical unattractiveness, someone with no life.
You can be a top hacker without being a geek.
consider yourself über-coders
I really hate watching script-kiddies telling each other that they are hackers, not crackers and vice versa; much like everyone else in this group. Slashdot has a broad enough audience, I'm sure something new will catch on sooner or later.
ap
Did anyone catch the article in IEEE Spectrum a few months ago on the etymology of "kludge"? IIRC, it seems that this term was NOT used pejoratively in the navy, but referred to a complex device. There was a very amusing (apocryphal) anecdote about a sailor whose official title was "Kludgemeister, first class". I don't think kludgemeister would catch on, but it sounds cool to me.
If a "hack" can be a bad thing, but a hacker can be a term of esteem, the same concept could apply to kludgemeister. I also like "Code Warrior", but I don't think Metrowerks would like losing their trademark because the term entered the venacular.
-------
-- Will quantum computers run imaginary-time operating systems?
Whichever word we choose to positively associate with "intelligent computer-smart individual that pushes the limits and makes things work" or something similar, the crackers/script kiddies will likely adopt it for themselves, as they've already done with "hacker". They use the word louder and more obnoxiously than a humble, pre-occupied hacker, so naturally your average Joe associates the word with them.
Recently, media usage of the word "hacker" -- in the traditional sense -- has started to appear. I've seen several articles about Alan Cox, Linus, etc, where hacker was used correctly. This trend can only grow with the expansion of open source software. I think we should continue to use the term hacker just like we always have and see how far the open source wave will take us and our terminology.
Geeky modern art T-shirts
I haven't read every post, but I figured I would toss my own currency into the fray. I personally think that we should go with a term that is something the media might pick up and go with. Something simple and straightforward, if a bit tolkien-esque. Dark hacker and Light hacker perhaps. I dunno, maybe there is no term for it that will work well because too many people still don't understand the technology that is before them. Unfortunately we live in an increasingly lazy society. Everything must be automated and easy with pretty pictures (eg AOL). It's very much like the first real scientists. They were branded witches and heretics because they knew things no one else did and it scared people. Until society understands computers (which at this rate will be never) then perhaps we should just let them think what they want and use the terms we have always used. Although I still think that tabloid shows would go nuts over 'Dark Hacker' in reference to those few who maliciously crack sites for amusement, it's probably too late to change the addled minds of the media.
-The Mythril Dragon
---- Vincit omnia veritas.
I was just perusing some old RPG books and I came across West End Games Star Wars. They call malicious crackers Slicers....because they cut their way into a computer and do whatever it is they need to do. It's just different enough from Hacker but close enough....just a thought. Any comments?
---- Vincit omnia veritas.
When someone asks me if I can "hack" (read: crack), I tell them "not what you call hacking". It seems to me that the definition of hacking has 3 meanings (to the computer related world that is).
...)
;)
1) Someone who uses their computer to solve problems, write great code, save the world, etc. etc. etc.
2) Someone who seeks information illegally (see also systems cracker)
3) Someone who breaks things (see also script kiddie, newbie, LeEt0,
My definition is the first. People try to justify the second, but the problem is, _even if you want the information there are legal ways to get it_.
You cannot justify breaking a law. Breaking into someone's system is a computer crime. If you think the law is unjust, _CHANGE_ it. Isn't that what's so great about America? We have freedoms, that includes the freedom to change an unjust law. The problem is it won't get changed.. Because it would open a million loop holes for script kiddies.
So many people seem to think that getting root on someone else's computer just to "explore the system" or "gain information" or "gain expirience/education) is OK.
There's no harm done in exploring the system, but if you want to do that, ask the sys admin nicely. If he still doesn't let you then too bad. Explore your own system.
If you want information, there are legal ways of getting it. If you still can't do it legally, then they have their right to privacy.
As to the third, are you going to put on your resume "I can break into any system!! I've r00t3d 31337 boxes!!" Will that get you into college? or any job? Will it get you respect (that's worth having)? Learn on your own system, it's usually better then learning on someone elses. (Note that you will never know everything about your system. But trying to is fun
The third definition is usually justified by saying it's "fun" or "I wanted revenge". It's a thrill, sure, that doesn't make it OK. And revenge is never a good excuse..
Well.. these are just my thoughts on the whole ordeal. I never have to say I'm a hacker. There's too much red tape. If someone asks me I just try to explain to them "what I do is probably not what you call hacking", and then I explain what I do, and the difference between hacking and cracking.
"Hackers solve problems, crackers create them"
"Being able to break security doesn't make you a hacker anymore then being able to hot wire a car makes you an automotive engineer"
--ESR, Hacker-HOWTO
-- Ace
Why not use something like Jedi?
Then we can start calling the crackers Dark Jedi.
I think that this would be easy enough to understand, even for the media.
But Lucas wouldn't go for that.
So, what about one of the ones that I saw on other posts?
Technophile
Be nice to everyone, they out number you 6 billion to 1.
I always liked the sound of "Decker".
But most people wouldn't know where it came from.
I think it's time for a new poll.
Be nice to everyone, they out number you 6 billion to 1.
On naming: a physicist studies physics; a chemist studies chemistry; a roboticist studies robotics. A farmer farms, a sprinter sprints, a programmer programs. The *ist's are usually academic pursuits ( not always ); the *er's are usually naming what people /do/. A hacker, then, hacks. No problems (except about what a /hack/ is.)
/.ers aren't academics; (those that are, according to the above, should be 'computists'); but what does a /.er /do/ (besides read /.)? Well... /I/ write code, I program, I script, I do some system administration, a little web-mastering, some system tweaking, read up on the field, set up hardware and repair systems that go down. Some might call me a hacker.
/really/ have the words for them all yet. This is behind the recent furor over liscencing software engineers: software engineers (the employee at toyota who designed the brakes for your new camry) want to distinguish themselves from the programmer (the guy who fixed your brakes at meineke), neither of whom wish to be confused with the computer scientist (the physicist who came up with the equations describing how brakes work that the engineer used to check his designs so that the mechanic wouldn't have to fix them as often.) We don't have word that refers to all those different people involved in the auto industry; it's probably a mistake to have one for the computer industry.
I would guess most
A quick analogy: compare computers to cars; for most people, they're equally mysterious internally and come with cryptic recommendations for routine maintenance. Car driver::computer user. Simple so far, right? Here's where things begin to break down:
guy at the gas station who checks your fluid levels at the full service pump::hacker
grease monkey::hacker
ASE-certified master mechanic::hacker
engineer who designed the brakes::hacker
artist who designed the looks::hacker
manager in charge of the drivetrain::hacker
manager in charge of that particular make::hacker
(Around here, you start getting to large enough projects (programs) that you're not talking about coding-level individuals anymore.)
You see the problem here? Cracker is a very specific term, one who cracks systems. Hacker? Nobody knows. The real problem with the terminology for people who know & use computers at a level greater than 'car driver': the industry is only now just beginning to mature to the point where jobs are starting to separate out, and we don't
-_Quinn
Reality Maintenance Group, Silver City Construction Co., Ltd.
i think both 'code magi' and 'code poet' both capture important aspects of programming rarely understood by nonprogrammers...
'code poet' captures the aesthetic value of code, which (i hope) when used might work towards dispelling the notion that programming is dry and boring. ive gotten some truly amazed looks from ppl when i say that i code for fun, and that ill gladly spend spare time doing it...
'code magi' (or mage; i just think magi sounds neater =) captures some of alchemical mystique of playing with powerful toys very few ppl really understand... see the technopaganism thread, and the 'myth, magik + mysticism' book review for some really good stuff on this...
haphazardly,
pope sayke XXIII
-- sayke, v2.3.05
I've been using the term "ethical hacker" when talking to ... less enlightened individuals. I saw it in IBM's ads touting their e-business or whatever. I thought it gave a lot better feeling off than just "hacker". It brings across all the "oh he's a computer genius and can do anything" associated with hacker, yet adds the respect that someone who is "ethical" would receive.
~unyun~
It does seem to come across that way. :-)
And the reply about the mentally stable child is also good.
Guess "ethical hacker" is out.
~unyun~
I feel that no matter what happens, words will always change meaning and spelling according the the media and also the general public.
Look at the (Brittish) English Language. In America there are few words that have two vowels next to each other compared to the original Enligsh Languae, eg. Anaesthetic, Encyclopaedia, Mediaeval, Colour, etc...
Another example is the word "Exterminate" from the Doctor Who television series. This word was invented and yet became so popular it was eventually acknowledged by the Cambride Dictionary.
So, I would say give up the fight for Hacker, ignore Cracker and let someone with more imagination than myself invent a better word.
Ya know, I find myself grepping daily. Both non-coders and coders alike use grep on a regular basis, no? (Excluding Windows folk).
I'd settle for "grepper"
Well, the word "ninja/ninjya" (by itself) is a Japanese secret agent of old -- someone who is very good at hiding. I don't know if this is an appropriate term/postfix to replace hacker.
Coincidentally, "nin" means "kernel" in Japanese. I suppose you could extend "nin" to "ningennijyou" -- which means superhuman.
Although I tend to call myself a computer geek (in the positive sense as given in the Jargon File), I don't think that'll ever get the media's attention in that sense, so neither it nor "nerd" are worthy of a fight. It is reasonable to assume that any positive role model that is "worthy of mention" in traditional media is bound to be someone of guru-level skills, so that's where I'm casting my vote.
I would have to argue that there are a good number of coders who are not hackers. I have worked with many people who write code for the sole purpose of getting a paycheck, and do not have the Hacker Nature. The term hacker has traditionally described something more than just somebody who writes code. That is important.
--
Fourth law of programming:
Anything that can go wrong wi
Look. I know you guys really dig all this computer shit, but face it. The rest if the workd doesn't give a fuck about you if you use your skills for good, and you can all figure each other out without needing a label.
So why don't you stop wasting your time worrying about this crap and get back to what really matters- T and FUCKIN A!!! GO GET LAID DAMMIT!!! It's a weekend! GO GET DRUNK AND SCREW!!! Hell, I'm having fun, mackin chicks, and I'm at work. So go do something cool.
I recall that in the golden age of hackerdom at MIT, one did not call oneself a hacker. One hacked up elegant code, and others observed its beauty and said "That's a neat hack". One was referred to as a hacker only when one had the reputation for consistently creating such code. Calling oneself "hacker" marked one as a hacker-wannabe. In this, Hacker and Guru are similar.
;-)
Therefore, I cannot reject Guru anymore than I reject Hacker, except that the term hacker contains a bit of self-deprecation or modesty, which guru lacks.
I have suggested that the title on my business cards read "Lord High Wizard, defender of the Design, keeper of the Source, and a fit consort for Her Majesty, My Wife", but so far, they aren't buying it -- they claim that it is too long to fit.
One grey-beards opinion.
I rather like the nostalgic feeling of hacker. But alas the media has taken it and destroyed it.
;) That spark that raises us above the crowd?
We do a new name to describe the breed of programmer that many of us are.. artists, in our own sense. Programming just because we can. How else can you describe someone (like myself) that spent 3 hours changing second.S, part of the lilo boot loader, just so I could use a switch attached to a joystick port to choose my bootup?!!? (of course, I should have been doing my homework...)
How can we describe this kind of behavier? I'm no programming star, but I can't resist the alure of code dancing in my head... functions and structures and objects... Oh my!
So far I like coder, but it lacks the right feeling. That's what I would call one of the the people I see entering Comp. Sci, or comp. eng at my university with no clue and no programming experience, that seem to make it through, but not because they have any understanding.
The hacker we know and love is on the next level up.
Code artist sounds as about as fake as Subway ( a canadian sub chain) has Sandwich artists.
But how can we describe that oneness with the code?
I recommend that we arrange a vote. And with the final decision we, the few, the coders, hackers, or whatever we want to call ourselves must rise against the media and proclaim our new name for all to know! FREEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMMM! from the persecution of a misplaced name!
BTW: It had better be something the common folk and PHB's can swear with, because when Y2K roll's over, it's going to be shouted alot!
Was that dramatic enough?
More Caffeine. NOW
Did you ever see the IBM commercial with two college age people sitting at a computer breaking into some companies database? Well, one of the characters says, "Look this Vice-President makes twice as much as this Vice-President, I bet he doesn't know that."
Second character taps on the keyboard, "Sure he does, I just E-mailed everyone in the company."
Well, when my Mom and sister saw that commercial, they expressed admiration for the two (hackers? crackers?) in the commercial. Now, my Mom and sister try to think about as little as possible, and I thought their reaction was interesting. I think people are aware of "Don Quixote" (hackers? crackers?) just as they are aware of the more maliscious kind. I also think that to the average person if someone is referred to as a hacker in, say, a company they work in, they don't neccessarily think he's some evil renegade just someone with a lot of power where computers are concerned.
To put it another way, I'd say that the Lone Gunman on the X-Files (a popular TV show, remember) are heroic-type hackers and that most people who watch the show would a)refer to them as hackers and b) think of them as the good guys. Don't think just because we have a monolithic media cabal who's goal is to destroy anybody who they see as going against the establishment that the general public doesn't know the score. Popular culture should be in the mix in this discussion, too.
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
Now, my Mom and sister try to think about as little as possible, and I thought their reaction was interesting.
To this line:
Now, my Mom and sister try to think about computers as little as possible, and I thought their reaction was interesting. *^^*
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
How about borrowing from another well-established term that already has a positive connotation? That would make it more difficult to corrupt.
I like 'wizard' and it has been used in this sense before anyway. Heck, it even makes sense. What is a wizard but someone proficient at something another does not understand?
paz,
t
I personaly don't care about the opinions of the mainstream press. If you are a hacker, and I am not, then anyone who's opinion counts understands what you do.
Conformity is not the nature of hackers. Should the desire for acceptence cause the word itself to change? I say no.
The mainstream is beginning to accept the idea of open source. Either "hacker" will or won't eventualy take on the meaning it has in the programing world, but I'll be dammed if I change one thing I do because of the opiniton of the mainstream.
After quitting my last job, a coworker asked me if I was going to be a "code pounder" or a "software engineer". Interesting dichonomy... I guess the term comes from "ground pounder", aka an infantryman. EOM
with type enhancements, either based upon operating environment or "level" of skill or contribution...
Many other good suggestions have been made, but most of them end up being perjorative in one mode or another. Cowboy is similar, but the media is just clue'd enough to know about Gibson's version ( now I am annoyed - I can't find either copy of Neuromancer - sigh) - and a made-up word, or a word too deep within the lexicon may never break the surface tension of public consciousness...
My only wonder in this situation is that overall, uber code head cyber cowboy geeks (whatever) as a group or class of citizen ARE feared overall - not just the cracker subset of the hackers...
y'all (I would like to say "we" but I ain't that good) are the shamen ( & wimmen) of the tribal tech world we are aborning here... Shamen have always had respect... AND fear... and when the crops failed, the shaman ended up in pieces in the fields, both for being "wrong", and to provide extra fertilizer for next year. Be a shaman at your own risk, and call yourself whatever feels right.
Me
This is certainly true. However, the current definition of programmer is closer than the misunderstood definition of hacker, so at least it'd be a start. Perhaps there should be two standards (as there currently are): terms used amongst geeks, as hacker/cracker currently are, and those in common use, as programmer/hacker are.
As someone else mentioned in a different thread, it's like the gay/queer thing. Once it is used enough internally, it may make its way into common, correct usage.
With all these different "ackers," why not call ourselves slackers....that would be perfect. I really think that anyone who has time to sit at a computer for more than 8 hours at a time has got to be a slacker....because it can't be that important...anyways, just my opinion....
How about Migerfer......Kinda throw a little mcgyver in there.
The origin of "hacker", as far as I am aware, comes from golf, where a dedicated amateur golfer is called a "hacker" (since they "hack" at the ball). So "hacker" started off as a derogatory term anyway.
I believe the main reason "hacker" has gained the connotation of a data invader is because the word "hack" suggests cutting or destroying something.
In the end it doesn't really matter what term you use. People that aren't hackers will always use the term in a negative light (since it describes a group to which they don't belong). Just look at the pointless distinction some trek fans have between "Trekkie" and "Trekker". Same problem.
However, if you want a term to mean "dedicated amateur programmer", I suggest "bugger" as in "Guy who puts the bugs in". Rendering its meaning of "homosexual" obsolete would be worthy... and also indicate real community on the part of hackers - you'd need a lot of people using the term proudly for its meaning to change.
(In Australian slang, someone who is "a bit of a bugger" is a bit of a rascal. Its emphasis is somewhat affectionate).
Just thought I'd tell some of you, "Cracker" is also what Asians refer to us Meletonin Deficiant Americans as.
SPAM openly welcomed. I do charge a 500$ proof-reading fee though. Any complaints may be directed to the brick wall to y
This might sound really lame to some people, but here it goes: The term 'hacker' has great significance to computer nostalgia and history. The title of 'hacker' really says something about a person. Me thinks that the media just needs to get a clue, and who better to pass the word along than faithful Slashdot readers?
Solution: Everytime an article is published misusing the term 'hacker', any Slashdot reader could type his name and email address into a couple text boxes, and exectute a short perl script, and a general letter explaining the actual meaning of the term 'hacker' would be sent off to the offending party. This might tick off the people that have to read the email, but it would definately get a point across. Well, there's my two cents, I would be very happy to see some implementation.....
=\/\/= If it's too loud, turn it down.
What's wrong with (computer) nerd or (computer) geek?
Shouldn't the defenition of a hacker be, "One who subscribes to the hacker ethic"?
One of the traits of the true hacker is a profoundly antibureaucratic and democratic
spirit. That spirit is best exemplified by the Hacker's Ethic. This ethic was best formulated by
Steven Levy in his 1984 book Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution. Its tenets are as
follows:
Access to computers should be unlimited and total.
All information should be free.
Mistrust authority - promote decentralization.
Hackers should be judged by their hacking not bogus criteria such as degrees, age, race, or
position.
You create art and beauty on a computer,
Computers can change your life for the better.
~Any apparent grammatical or typographic errors are caused by defects in your display device.
"Bithead" is to computers as "Deadhead" is to the Grateful Dead, or "gearhead" is to cars. Not to be confused with the rock group Motorhead.
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but it seems to me that allowing the majority to dictate culture to a minority is a dangerous thing, even if it is limited strictly to linguistics. When the media accepts something as true, or when the ignorance of the majority attempts to modify the reality of something, does that mean that we should simply accept it?
:)
I've heard a lot of good alternatives here, including "Computer Geek," "Computer Nerd" (which I often call myself), "Guru," etc. But I also use the word "Hacker," and I very much enjoy exposing someone's ignorance by referring them to the corret meaning, as published in "The Hacker's Dictionary" from MIT. It was particularly satisfying to explain its true meaning when I was interviewed by the university newspaper, but I don't think they intended the article to be about computer programming
To be honest, and I'm willing to bet that there are others out there that feel the same way, I am sick of modifying the way I behave (including the words that I use) to cater to the lowest-common-denominator of our society.
However, it might also be true that the term "Cracker" sounds funny or awkward to some people due to its possible racial implications.
In any case, I intend to go on using words like "Hacker," "Hack Value," "Hacking," etc. -especially- around people who believe that they have a different meaning.
I think that one (of many) reason(s) that media
use the word "hacker" is that gives you the
idea of a lunatic/madman/freak waving a large
and sharp axe attacking our "world of order".
This gives media (especially "trash" media) a
nice word to describe the abusers of our
technology.
A hacker, in the original context, is a
craftsman/woman who is an expert in his/her
computer/programming craft. In other crafts;
a surgeon is a good example, as well as the
mechanics "team Hakkinen" (*) uses to win
Formula 1 racing.
In other words, extremly a "hacker" is a
skilled expert in his/her problem domain.
We need a new word, and the word should also
aply to other craft, so that everyone knows
what we are talking about; otherwise media
is going to screw it up again...
As a suggestion, I have none. I try to excuse
myself as not being native english speaking,
so I can't suggest anything sensible.
(*) I am not sure if this is the correct
spelling...
Tom Simonsen tomsi@netpartner.no (at work, or at home (maybe working...) tomsi@eunet.no (when DEFINETIVLY not at
Well, we were talking about this on IRC, and someone convinced me to post. A common synonym for hacker can be "ninja," and I'm sure most of you have heard this at one time... or maybe you don't know any perl ninjas, cisco ninjas... :)
How about:
Code Artist.
Logic Engineer.
"There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."
"There is no surer way to ruin a good discussion than to contaminate it with the facts."
Some hackish terms in Business Card Lingo...
Cracker (new):Access specialist.
Cracker (C64):Restriction eliminator.
Phreak: Call routing faciliator.
Hacker: Technical wizard./Master tech specialist.
Admin: Client resource manager.
BOFH: Resource allocation technician.
Teacher: Grokkage facilitator.
Coder: Program creation specialist.
Social engineer: Social engineer.
Dumpster-diver: Resource reclamation technician.
Script-kiddie: Preprogrammed resource misappropriation specialist.
Real-world terms translated...
Common criminal: Legal constraint avoider.
Tresspasser: Boundary penetration specialist.
Vandal: Spontaneous graphic redesigner.
Spy: Private information retrieval technician.
Journalist: Reality spin provider.
Terrorist: Public reaction engineer.
Drug runner: Material transfer expert.
I think I'm gonna send a slightly modified version of this to some of the local radio stations.. The morning shows around here LOVE stuff like this. And who knows, it might popularize "Master technical specialist" as a hacker-like term. I particularly like this one, because most of the bucks-for-certification scams have a "master" classification and it seems to impress people. To borrow this designation seems appropriate.
Attend, please.
A term for serious consideration is 'gleaner'. Obviously, both #1 definitions are not applicable, but the others certainly are.
From m-w.com:
Main Entry: glean
Pronunciation: 'glEn
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English glenen, from Middle French glener, from Late Latin glennare, of Celtic origin; akin to Old Irish doglenn he selects
Date: 14th century
intransitive senses
1 : to gather grain or other produce left by reapers
2 : to gather information or material bit by bit
transitive senses
1 a : to pick up after a reaper b : to strip (as a field) of the leavings of reapers
2 a : to gather (as information) bit by bit b : to pick over in search of relevant material
3 : FIND OUT
-- Ellsworth, one small voice
OK, so if the original 'hackers' were just people who enjoyed seeing how things worked and tinkering with them, let's borrow from some Star Wars books and call them 'Slicers'.
And comments?
That's a really good question, and I admit I too have a hard time thinking of something because "hacker" seems quite positive to me as well.
How about:
ufdraco
- Wanking??? I don't know exactly what that is, but it's not complimentary if I understand correctly
- Managing would be a slap in the face to most hackers.
- Kludging is considered a bad thing, an ineligant hack.
- Cracker would never sound good...just think about it! It's either a type of food or a person who breaks into stuff. I can't imagine any other interpretation.
Good Idea:ufdraco
This is true, but there is distinction between "programmer" and "hacker."
A hacker is more than just a programmer. A hacker is a person that enjoys making things work that supposedly shouldn't. An example: the dressing of the MIT dome this year to look like R2D2 was called a "hack" but there was no programming involved. It was just a really cool trick that took a lot of thought and planning and was something that a lot of people would probably scoff at--until it happened. A hacker (in programming) not only programs, but takes the additional effort to know all he/she can about the system so as to write the best code possible for the platform. To a certain extent, an average programmer is just another user. But a hacker actually controls the system by comparison.
At least, that's how I understand it.
ufdraco
Too true. For the record: I was only thinking of phat and so on... /me shudders and recants!!
ufdraco
wankius -> wankii
wankus -> wanki
but:
wankes can be the plural if "wanker" were a 3rd declension latin noun of the form wanker, wankis. Then wanker -> wankes. If you prefer wankus as the singular nominative form, go ahead, but it isn't necessary.
I am cursed by 4 years of HS latin 8-)
ufdraco
But that is all made irrelevant by the fact that the difference is known by too few and the media makes no effort to make a distinction. But after reading all this discussion, I also realize why they don't: "cracker" is too silly (a food???) or unPC a term. I have to agree--we need to change our word for crackers, not hackers.
ufdraco
"nonprogrammers rarely grok this,"
;-)
Non-Geeks rarely grok the word "Grok".
As for the Haiku...
As I document
This ellegant object
They make me change it
again
Well, almost
censorship is a form of noise, which actively seeks to drown out content with silence - Crash Culligan
I would think that being known as a Coder would be the most obvious choice.
Heck, we even founded a club based on the name at our university ( http://alcor.concordia.ca/~ccc ).
Calling yourself a :
Programmer is a too uptight and restricting,
Software Engineer now leaves you open to legal action,
Hacker - not everyone gets it,
cracker - just plain wrong.
Unless you venture into the 2-word descriptions which in my opinion don't cut it.
Who wants to be known as a computer scientist?
I call myself a software developer, because it looks much better on a resume than "coder" or "hacker" which mean pretty much the same to me with the exception that hackers still have have that negative connotation of being 'disorganized non-structured people inappropiate for professional application development'.
The problem with society today is the fact that people are so ignorant that they believe that once a group of people has been labeled a certain way, the group stays that way. When the term hacker came around in the 70's, it was used as a label for anyone who was totally immersed in computer programming and technology. When PC's and dial-up networking came out in the 80's, the term hacker took the shape of anyone who gained unauthorized access to others computers, sometimes perusing or altering data on those computers. Today, the meaning for a hacker is someone who gains access to other computers, possibly looking at the data stored on them, and then sometimes leaves a message telling the person that they gained access and maybe also telling the person how they did this and how to correct the problem. The difference between a hacker and a cracker is that hackers don't do any damage to the information they access. A cracker's intent, when they invade a computer, is to damage or destroy data. The problem is that society still recognizes crackers and hackers to be in the same group of people, and because of sheer stubbornness and stupidity we don't think twice about it. If people would realize that there is a significant difference between hackers and crackers, there would be less hostility between them and the rest of the world. The issue is simple; hackers don't like to be called crackers and crackers don't like to be called hackers, and if the rest of the world would stop trying to label them under one general group and actually take the time to find out why they aren't the same, we wouldn't have to worry about grouping ourselves under one name.
maybe we can go for someing like CodeMagi it's cind of like wizards but not.
not that I think we need to chage it I like haker
SquidLord, Afton From Ali
Often when im at a friends house taking there computer arpat for no reason but the enjoyment there parents or siblings ask, "are you a hacker?" how do i reply to this? i mean, i could argue the whole night what a hacker is or isn't... but yet its so unclear. Mostly i answer "no, im not a hacker." simply because i dont want to explain my self. but other times i add a joke to it. "no im not a hacker, im a d1nk. or geek or nerd." i mean its to hard to explain what a hacker is. The general public only knows of a "hacker" as two things. Someone who knows allot about computers, or two, someone who commits a computer crime. Well, microsoft are hackers arn't they? they've commited computer related crimes... with the whole DOJ trial. Now if you say no im not a hacker, im a computer professional, or security consultant or somthing else, they perk an eye brow and show a more grown up respect for it. I dont think that trying to give our self's a new word would work very well. the general public would still see us as hackers. with a new word... Enuf with my rantings ......
This is a pretty neat idea, I mean how often do you get a chance to make up some name to call yourself and then get a bunch of folks to copy.
I personally think a new name should be taken from Cyberpunk. Like Rigger or Decker.
I'm not really into William Gibson alot, but I bet he's thrown out some good names we could pick up on.
How about hacker?
Hacker is too good to give up though. *sigh*
I frequently see many programmers becoming irate over the apparent incorrect usage of the word "hacker" in the common vernacular. I find it strange that any group claims to own the definition of a word that until recently gaining its negative connotation was meaningless to most people. I never have had a problem being simply called a programmer, or a coder, or even a nerd. Hell, I even tell people I am "geeking" and they usually get the clue. It seems to me that those who desperately are seeking to "correct" the meaning of the word "hacker" merely have some sort of elitist view of programming and feel that their private term for this superior coding echelon has been compromised. Let's grow up people, words mean whatever the majority of people mean when they use that word. If the majority of society is using the word "hacker" to refer to "crackers", then that is the word's new meaning. Get over it. I mean what is the real appeal to the word hacker anyways? So you say "I slashed away at some code" instead of "hacking away at it." Big deal.
Thanks,
David W. Lovell