On a less lame note, does this mean young geeks are dealing with less of the aggressive bully types? And on a slightly more serious note still, I wonder if any study has been done on the role of male sex hormones in the sociobology of humans. It is a generally acknowledge (though AFAIK not yet understood) fact that women who live in the same dwelling eventually develop synchronized menstrual periods. But with regard to males, I can only think of examples in the animal kingdom where territorial males would deposit their own scent to "mark their territory"...... I'm sure someone else can come up with a better joke on that note than I could.
In taking the next step, Eugene Polzik and his colleagues at the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen shined a strong laser beam onto a cloud of room-temperature cesium atoms whose spins were all pointing in the same direction and fluctuating according to their given quantum state. The laser became entangled with the collective spin of the cloud, meaning that the quantum states of laser and gas shared the same amplitude but had opposite phases. The goal was to transfer, or teleport, the quantum state of a second light beam onto the cloud.
To do so, the group mixed a second, weaker laser pulse with the strong laser and split the superimposed beams into two arms. A detector in one arm measured the sum of the beams' amplitudes and a detector in the second arm measured the difference between their phases. Neither measurement disturbed the delicate entangled state between the light and cesium. But the researchers could use the results to apply a precise magnetic field to the cesium vapor that effectively canceled out the ensemble's original spin state and replaced it with one that corresponded to the polarization of the weak pulse, as they report in the 5 October Nature.
A couple years ago Linus came to speak at the monthly meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Linux User's Group. They were giving out t-shirts with this on the front. It was kind of ironic because not soon after, One of the most visible linux companies in San Francisco (and a supporter/sponsor of SFBALUG) reached it's apex and began a downhill slide. What had been a cheeky joke had become suddenly very somber.
I'm just two years younger than you, but found myself asking the same question more than 10 years ago. While in high school, in order to fulfill the arts requirements, I found myself picking up the violin for the first time with classmates who all started much earlier than I did. My music teacher had a lot to do, more or less running the school's entire music program by himself, so I didn't really blame him for not giving me too much time or attention. It was for the most part "monkey see, monkey do" for two years. It was really hard trying to catch up and keep up by myself. To be honest, I never really learned to play properly. Though I didn't have the optimal learning or playing experience, I feel I still learned enough for those two years to have been worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, I would have killed for the opportunity to learn proper vibratos, tremolos, or pizzicato techniques with adaquate guidance and instructional feedback.
To bring the discussion back to the subject at hand, here is where I think software tools are best utilized. Lots of folks here are saying things like "you don't need software! the important thing is practice! practice! practice!" When you don't have access to proper instruction, sometimes the next best thing is the greater awareness some of the tools mentioned here can provide about your own playing abilities. Years ago, I remember listening to a recording I made of myself for the first time on a tape player and realizing that despite what I thought was accurate notes from proper fingerboarding, I sounded terrible due to lousy bowing techniques. It was as if in concentrating to get the physical motions right, my brain had tuned out my ears and was not evaluating the results of those motions. Idealy, an instructor would be around to catch those mistakes you're not aware of. Sadly, software tools lack the experience and artistic factor that a capable instructor brings. And I think that is the greatest challange for older folks trying to learn in an endeavor where most resources are geared toward young beginners.
The silver lining may be that more mature students are better able to appreciate the task of seriously learning to play. Some years ago, my local PBS station broadcasted a segment of "Great Performances" called "The Art of Violin" . It was a truly thrilling program that explored the art form from the perspectives of some of today's most illustrious violinists talking about historic luminaries, each other, and most importantly, the physical instrument itself and different techniques and styles of playing that made world famous virtuosos shine in unique ways. While watching the show, I reflected on my own understanding of what I was doing all those years ago and wondered whether the younger me could comprehended what the program was saying to me now about this dynamic nuanced-filled artform, steeped in a sophisticated ever-developing tradition.
I would encourage you to follow your heart and not be too discouraged if you don't immediately sound like Itzhak Perlman. One of the most memorable things I remember from the "Great Performances" program is Perlman himself saying how much harder it is to learn the violin compared to other instruments. Though I haven't the time to really play anymore, I take my old instrument out on rare occasions and it is still satisfying to draw out a tune.
Our old thread got archived. I know posting my reply here is off-topic and probably rude. But I figure at least I can be more stimulating than soviet russia jokes.
This must mean that it's ok for me to "observe" that you've made relatively few posts with that low Slashdot ID of yours.
Your observation would be perfectly reasonable and correct. How you interpret that observation would be another matter. Does the number of posts have anything to do with how long I've observed the history and evolution of slasdot? Are you privy to the inner working of my private motivations for posting the comments that I did? Do you understand me well enough based on our one conversation here to engage in further inquiries of an ernest and civil nature? Or are you going to remain defensive and continue to maintain that you're right and I'm wrong about asmor, slashdot, and everything else? I stand by what I said. Your slashdot ID indicates you joined relatively more recently than I did. The examples and analogies you concieved indicates a lack of awareness of the way slashdot has developed and evolved over the years. I think it is rather sad that you would think Rob Malta has sold out for monetary gain when in reality he and his team have done so much over the years to make this place grow and prosper. The work they've put into continuously improve the slashcode. The valiant efforts put into dealing with conflicts and crisis that has confronted slashdot - from overcoming DDOS attacks to the ultimately failed effort to protect comment posters from the Church of Scientology. If you truly have experienced slashdot long enough to live through some of these events you would know how steadfast CmdrTaco has steered this ship with lofty ideals that could never be bought or sold. The relevent facts are that you've repeatedly complained about how slashdot doesn't suit your fancy while giving no regard for the value of this forum to other individuals who are not like you. The relevent facts are that you try to impose rules befiting of a formal professional organization when in reality most slashdot users approach this place with a casual attitude that does not bring the kind of expectations demanded of a commercial customer-centered service organization. When you've been around long enough and starts noticing more than just your own stake in slashdot, then you will understand.
Explain this one to me. You say that judging people based on their submissions is bad, and I say it's good. You "observe" my behavior and make a judgement, and then somehow it's not relative to the discussion? Your point this entire time is that I was wrong in judging Asmor, yet you try to dodge the issue when judging me.
First off, my main objection has always been the fact that you believe guys like asmor shouldn't be allowed to *post such questions* to slashdot. Your trivial dismissal of asmor as "lazy" was a secondary objection. I feel you were unnecessarily harsh on asmor because we know too little about him and the circumstances of his inquiry to make judgments or assumptions meaningful. In other words, there isn't enough information to warrant an acurate or useful assesment of a person's skill or character. On the other hand, you and I have been conversing for more than a week. You have had ample opportunity to state your case and express your opinion clearly and without ambiguity. We have engaged in an exchange of information and perspectives. It is in the spirit of this exchange that I provided to you details of slashdot's aquisition by Andover.net. This information provides context with which to evaluate your earlier remarks about the business aspect of slashdot. Based on the history of our conversation, I made a *judgment* that you lacked such information and that it would be useful to you in better understanding the nature of slashdot. It seems to me you're more concerned about the judgment that lead to the provision of this information than the information itself. Did I hurt yo
Neither. logical deduction. You have a high slashdot ID number and have devised consistantly poor analogies to characterize your understanding of slashdot and how it is run. The simple observations lead to a simple conclusion. There is no reliance on unspoken expectations, thus I do not call you ignorant for not knowing slashdot's history. There is no critical evaluation of the reason(s) for your comments and opinions, thus I do not say you are lazy for not looking things up.
But to fixate on all that is missing the point. Pressing the issue of how much you know, when you knew, or if you are expected to know a lot about slashdot is largely irrelevent. The point is to give you the opportunity to know now. I don't subscribe to a market model for community interaction. It doesn't cost me much to provide information and it is a lot less effort than being frustrated or upset at others for having need of such information. Hopefully, by my effort, the constituents of the community are better for knowing than not knowing.
You're confused. OSTG doesn't run slashdot. While they own the resources that keep slashdot running, they can't excercise content control of any kind. All of that is still done by slashdot founder, Rob Malta and his crew. Judging by your slashdot ID number, you may not have been around long enough to know that Rob Malta started slashdot long before it's association with OSTG, long before money was even on the radar. Do some research. Go look at what slashdot was like in the late nineties. Find out the circumstances under which slashdot was first aquired by a business entity. I'm tempted to call you lazy for posting before you knew what you were talking about. But that would be hypocritical. Instead, I'll chalk it up to your lack of time and experience on this forum and make nothing of it. Rather, it would be much more useful to clue you in on what I'm talking about.
note the follwing: "Why Andover?
We talked to several companies: Some that you've heard of, and some that you haven't. We were looking for a company that would guarantee us complete and total creative control, but provide us the financial resources necessary to expand Slashdot in the way we consider best "right"...... It is pretty evident to most old timers here that they've kept their word through the different times slashdot has changed hands.
Perhaps the world would be a better place if it was.:-)
Can you say hubris? Not illegal but highly irritating and probably not good for any community, be it slashdot or any other.
Eyeballs? Do you really believe CmdrTaco and Co. do this for just the ad revenue? You spoke with reference to a "truly free market". If that were true of slashdot, then anything goes, and the whole thing would turn into a popularity contest forever chasing the next big thing. Kind of like the music or entertainment industry. I very much doubt that's what you wish of slashdot. Naive and ill concieved may asmor and his question have been, but he is *not* an attention monger. The editors, sloppy as they are sometimes, are not *that* braindead. The article you referenced is heavy on the business side of things and makes a big deal of "market price". Do you think that really mean anything to those who currently run slashdot? The day slashdot gets sold is the day slashdot dies.
My goal is not to prove you wrong. You placed me in a position of defending my opinion and I am doing just that. At the end of the day, this is a discussion about what type of community we each want.
Your opinion initially happened to be that I *was* wrong. First thing you said to me: "Great comments, even though I think you're wrong.:-)" If the last word is that I'm wrong because the slashdot I percieve as it is and as it should be isn't the same as the one you want, then I suppose you've succeeded. I was rather hoping that we can both eventually agree on what kind of interaction on slashdot is best fore everyone. Well.... time will tell. Perhaps this new experimental tagging thing will solve some of our problems.
Ultimately, the marketplace will decide what is best. And that's ok with me because I think that truly free markets generally behave in their own best interest.
I think you've chosen an interesting analogy this time. A market place operate largely on supply/demand principles, but the influence of cost/benefit constraints and the reality of scarcity is also an integral part of the picture. Although I think a few parallels can be drawn, slashdot does not really fit the profile for a marketplace. For example, on slashdot, what would you consider to be the currency that mediates the exchange of goods? (For that matter, what goods and how exchanged?) How much such currency would guys like asmor have compared to someone like you? What would be the methods of obtaining and consuming such currency?
I don't see bring any problem with bringing a positive worldview into the picture, but I do see a problem with bringing a negative one. I guess what I'm saying is that if you can't be positive, at least be neutral.
Your own words do not live up to the attitude you profess. I mean, pegging asmor as lazy based on one question for someone you don't know anything about is hardly positive or even neutral.
This confirms my suspicion that I'm a proxy for others, at least in part.
You need not be suspicious of anything. What was the first thing I wrote in starting this thread? "toddbu: Please understand I'm not trying to flame you in particular. This is a general reply to all those who feel the question posed by the original submitter was ill-concieved." Yes, your characteristicly elitist comments earns you the burden of speaking for all those who feels the same as you do. But I gotta say, shifting the essence of my response to direct it onto others rather than yourself does nothing to change the ideas you've expressed. And you're still dodging the issue: What justifies your criticism of asmor's comment but not mine of yours? How is it that your "judgement call" is fair, but I'm being biased when I respond to your comments? Just because I don't agree with you? Despite your initial assertion, you have yet to *prove* me wrong.
Did you read my first post? Carefully? I don't think that I could have spelled it out any better. But this is where bias comes into play. Either you didn't take the time to read the post because I pushed a "hot button" for you, or you chose to focus in on the perceived negatives and ignore the rest of the post. I challenge you to reread the post, looking at it from a positive prespective for both the community and the individual. I think that you'll find a lot of great stuff in there.
Unfortunately, asmor has not made further comments to elucidate his intentions or provide feedback. So I can't tell if I made the right call in giving him the benefit of the doubt. You, however, have made you point repeatedly in subsequent posts. Your very first comment, in essence, complains about asmor's post not being useful or interesting to you, described what *would* interest you, then declares asmor's question trivial and tells him to go to school. Unfortunately, in your subequent comments no where do I see any positiveness directed at either asmor or this community. Your comments do not bring asmor any useful information. Nor does it add to the usefulness or quality of slashdot in any perceptible way. During the course of this discussion, you advocate restricting participation in this forum only to those of high experience at the expense of those less experienced. Through out the discussion, you keep telling me to carefully reread what you wrote. Maybe *I* should spell it out for *you*. Positive to me, means "Asmor, you question is very ambigious and ill-formed. The following books and website discusses ****, ****, and **** in more detail and depth than any comments you're going to get on slashdot....... Once you've gotten the hang of those concepts, come back and maybe we'll discuss how you can use those ideas in useful and interesting ways. For what it's worth, my background is in the following, ******." It doesn't coddle or insult anyone. It's direct, it's concise, and it doesn't rely on any assumptions or "judgements" of any kind. It seems to me that in the end, you are guilty of the very thing you complain about asmor. You say his question suffers from lack of context and poor research. But your own comments offer not one useful piece of information and pretty much dismisses the whole thing altogether as being trivial because it happened to be uninteresting to you without any regard for the rest of the community.
Seriously, I will agree that I was pushing him for something better. If you want to read that as "get off your ass" then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. If he wants to waste community b
Not a problem. I was going to be a bit disappointed that the most interesting conversation I've had since I can remember has come to an end.:-) Before I respond in more detail however, I'd like to juxtapose two of your comments:
We all come to the party with preconceived notions.....
and
....Perhaps you should read them again [slashdot.org] carefully without introducing any bias.
Do you sense a certain imbalance of standards here? From just the few sentences asmor wrote, you've made a "judgement" that he is lazy. How in the world did asmor manage to *prove* he is lazy? On the other hand, you're asking me to leave behind any bias I may have from just the few lines *you* wrote. I really don't know how to do that. At the very least I'd have some questions about why you feel justified in saying what you've said. I believe I've already explained the reason I'm defending asmor, but let me state it again: It is daunting to start at the beginning. When you haven't seen much to begin with, you *don't* have a context to place everything. So all the questions you may have, even all the information at your disposal means that much less because you don't have much of a foundation to anchor any of it. In that regard, asmor's inappropriate use of big terms is understandable. The way I see it, asmor is asking for a lifeline in a choppy, noisy sea of information. I believe he has every right to do that, because for him, I really don't see any alternative if he's lost and confused.
....What's wrong with wanting a better community?
Nothing. But a better community for who? We've been here before. Besides, it's rather ineffectual if you offer only criticism without practical solutions. You want Washington to clean up it's act? So do I. But those guys were voted into office - how do you suppose that happened? We can both agree that as is, it's screwed up. But do you (or I) really know enough to fix the system? How would you balance state's rights with federal authority? How do you reign in or punish the fat cats without hurting the masses of regular folks who work for them? Even in our own immediate context, the situation is hardly black and white. So you don't like asmor asking for help. Well, why could't you tell him where else to go if not slashdot? Given the chance to offer him other resources to address his problems, you chose to tell him to go to school. Is that really any more practical or effective than say asking the politicians to wise up and be more honest? Niether measure can definitively solve the immediate problem at hand. I admire you for your high ideals, but don't care much for your lack of practical common sense. In fact, I originally percieve that you intentionally suggested such an involved and high commitment solution to his rather innocuous question just to spite him. As in, "lazy bastard! get off your ass and get busy!" That's why I thought you were taunting him.
....If you want general knowledge, buy a book. If you have specific questions then ask them on Slashdot.
I strongly disagree with that conclusion. For the forseeable future at least, book are not going to respond to questions or offer feedback. However, that sort of thing is what communities like slashdot does best. With the enormous numbers of eyeballs and experiences available, general open-ended questions can be addressed from a multitude of perspectives. And the discussion can respond to the nature of the inquiry by going in whatever direction is desired. Even ill-formed questions like asmor's has a chance to be interpreted in multiple ways, one of which (hopefully) would end up being useful to the asker. In contrast, specific questions most often have specific answers which are best looked up in reference volumes. The only good use for a community in such a case is if one of those extra eyeballs happened to be familiar with the
A dialogue is an exchange between two voices (di - 2). Whereas the larger group discussion I was a part of addressed a newbie's experience level and the appropriateness of his somewhat basic question, my conversation specifically touched on the role of slashdot and the responsibility of the slashdot as a community. I felt my leaf more directly addressed the issue raised by the submitter, but no one is keeping you from reading the rest.
Sure, I think that people who clearly flame someone for no good reason are jerks. Can we at least agree on that point?
I'm sorry for the confusion. I took you to mean the guy is a jerk for being in a position to help but choosing to taunt you instead. That was my intended illustration anyway.
thereby making Ask Slashdot less useful for people like me.
For what it's worth, I think I understand you enough now to feel *your* frustration. Please understand that it seem initially like you blame asmor for your problems, as in: "The less experienced coders are taking your slashdot away from you. BAD NEWBIES!!" And that just seems selfish and arrogant. I don't know if it is any comfort to you that your "sacrifice" has made things more interesting for those of us who truly do find more basic information useful. If you truly support equal participation for all slashdot users, your patience may eventually see some of us becoming experienced enough to entertain you on your terms.
Do I need to end all my posts with XXOO?
Not at all. Like I said, I don't care if you personally like me or not. I'm more interested in the perceptive insights and interesting ideas you can offer to challange my own world view and further my own enlightenment. I hope the sentiment is mutual.
Why is it alarming that I should want to be a part of a community that's geared toward more advanced users?
Because you expect slashdot to be that community./*grin*/ slashdot for crying out loud! Okay, on second thought, maybe that isn't so much alarming as...er...funny. For what it's worth, Bruce Perens of Debian fame became disillusioned with slashdot a long time ago. In response to the lousy signal to noise ratio at slashdot, he established http://technocrat.net/ as "a more mature forum than Slashdot". You might be much happier there. I'm guessing it is more likely they don't "deal with n00bs".
It's a judgement call, which is far different than an assumption.
I don't know if it will be of any use to pursue this particular tact. It's splitting hairs. Judgement call, assumption - what *is* the difference? Basically, I thought you called him lazy and I felt it was unjustified.
When I was a kid, I was really interested in the space program....
This is the second time you've involked the idea of of "if it is good enough for me it ought to be good enough for others". Which, I guess, is a reasonable perspective. But read that a certain way and it becomes a variation of "my way is the only good way - for everyone". Just because you happened not to have asked for help in pursuing something doesn't mean it is wrong for others to seek help. It is a matter of choice. You may pass judgement on the choice others make, but how and why would you expect that personal opinion of yours to be of any significance? If you're trying to inspire someone to be more self-sufficient, it would be far more productive to actually suggest some resources. you know? "teach a man how to fish.." and all that. Don't just brag about how good you are and taunt someone else for being a bad fisherman (for whatever reason).
Perhaps this is off topic, as I have no suggestions for software features, but coincidentally, I'm currently engaged in a very spirited dialogue here on slashdot that addresses the treatment of novices or beginners who may not have enough experience to ask for what they really want in an online community. To address your question, I think whatever moderation system or customer support you may implement ought to make extra efforts to be inclusive and take care of the well-meaning but often clueless guys. The greatest asset of any online community isn't the mechanism or web feature of the portal, it is the participation of the members and the spirit of community they set out to build.
Never once did I even imply that I thought anyone was a jerk, nor would I make such a statement.
you didin't ? In response to a hypothetical asterik guru who snubs you - "...I'd just brush the guy off as a jerk and read the good responses."
You can't be serious. On Slashdot?:-).....
I don't particularly percieve (or care) that you don't like me, nor am I personally offended by anything you've said thus far. Like you, I am simply trying to argue a point; mine being - restricting entry level inquiries of the type submited by guys like asmor is not in the best interest of slashdot and the community spirit which slashdot represents.
I don't think an RTFM response in and of itself is disrespectful, but your assumption that someone ought to do so because they're being lazy *is*. Without knowing someone's motivation for asking a question, you imediately had him pegged as someone who's trying to get others to do his homework. Remember, I responded to your original comment by remarking that for someone who is none the wiser, even rudamentary concepts can be hard to grasp. How can you investigate the answer when you don't even understand enough to formulate the question? And when you can't formulate the first question, where do you begin? These are the kind of problems best solved by mentoring, which is what I believe asmor has a right to be seeking.
For the record, I must confess that I *am* probably being sensitive, but I believe righteously so. At some point in the past, we've all been where asmor is right now. No one should forget how hard it is to first start out on something. RTFM, however blunt, may be a proper response to such a person. However, no one, no matter how experienced or brilliant, should have the right to tell an ernest beginner he/she is wrong to ask questions to begin with.
I've conceeded the point in an earlier post that Slashdot is as much yours as mine....
Yet you complain about the fact that newbie questions like asmor's which do not sufficiently engage experienced IT profesionals (who know better) do not deserve a place on slashdot. Do you think that's fair? I find it very telling you consistantly ignore the option of simply not responding to the likes of asmor. It appears to me this entire conversation is built upon a very active and persistant objection on your part to the participation of asmor as a novice coder in the slashdot community in the interest of making it more worthwhile for the more experienced programmers.
I get the feeling that I've become a proxy for every rude and inconsiderate comment that you've ever seen on Slashdot. I think that you need to learn the distinction between comments that are made for the betterment of the community....
No, not really. Just the condescending ones.:-) Some of the more disparaging remarks here on slashdot are quit funny in the style and manner of the put-down. In regards to your remarks, I'm just a little alarmed at the seriousness of your attitude, that you genuinely believe squelching curiosity and questioning of the more basic variety is actually good for a community which thrives on knowledge and creativity.
....and those intended to make the poster look better at the expense of another. I've been trying real hard to find any comment that I've made that would fit the second category and have yet to find any.
hmm... Asmor is a guy just getting to know the ropes. You know this stuff well enough to teach it at the university level. You tell him his questions are ill-formulated and that he himself is lazy. Then you suggest he place himself under the wings of a trained academic, of the type you belong to. Need I say more?
Ok, but half of those 400 posts are you and me, so what does that say?
It says to me that half of that half are posts by those whom you would consider jerks.
I don't think posts on CVS or Subversion are what this guy was looking for...
Perhaps you should let Asmor decide from among the (useful) 400 comments what he is looking for. As there are often no single correct answer, there are often no single correct interpertation of a question. A broad multi-faceted question such as this can have several appropriate answers depending on the level of skill a coder has and the complexity of his/her project/assignment. For me, the key idea in his inquiry is the last sentence: "How do you store and maintain your most frequently used code?" smart code structuring, libraries, and CVS can all be appropriate solutions under appropriate circumstances. I think the part that is irritating you is that Asmor doesn't have enough programming experience to recognize the difference among his options much less how to use them wisely. In that respect, I think all these comments, varied as they are, are useful and gives him exposure to some ideas which he never would have encountered had he not bothered to ask his question.
A few years back I left my high-paying job to take a one-year teaching position at a local university (at 1/3 of the pay).
That still doesn't change the fact that you've not only refused to help Asmor, you've gone to great lengths to criticize the manner he is asking for help. It seems to me you're reacting to this poor guy as if he is one of your students. If he was paying tuition and making use of your time, I think it would be a totally apropriate response on your part. But this is slashdot, where people profess and BS for free in equal measure. If you must insist, however, couldn't you maybe (just maybe) pretend that the guy doesn't have the prereqs to take your class just yet? That wouldn't be his fault, would it?
So to answer your question directly, I picked up source control in the mid 90s while working at a large Fortune 500 company.....
Considering you learned it by exposure in the workplace, isn't it a bit hypocritical to suggest that Asmor go to school? Okay, let me apologize for that and back off a moment. Assuming you do teach this topic at your university teaching position, how would this topic be presented? If I was one of your students, how far from the beginning would you present this idea and in what context? Let's say we wish to properly study this topic. Can you recomend textbooks for Asmor (and me)?
Some level of exclusivity is good. In fact, that's why there's a moderation system.
Pitty you didn't have mod points to deal with the likes of Asmor, huh?:-P Hey, maybe there really *should* be mod points for stories as well as comments. That'll really keep the editors on their toes, knowing their efforts are moded as well. Heehee...
"Second fiddle" is a just a state of mind. If you really feel this way then your problem isn't a lack of knowledge, it's a lack of self-respect.
What I said had nothing to do with self-perception or self-respect. It's about public respect and social etiquette. To use your analogy, we're in a room. Even if doctors are the only ones you want to talk to, they are not the only occupants. Those who don't participate in your discussions are not obligated to because the facility is just as much theirs as it is yours. Keeping your own crowd exclusive is fine if you don't want to hang with the others. However, you don't get to be rude by using louder voices or hogging the refreshment stand just because you feel more entitled to the use of the room. So please have some respect for the doctors, too. Kindly explain to them how you found that race condition in their diagnostic imaging software in terms they can understand and I'm sure they'll be grateful enough to answer any health concerns you may have in terms you will understand.
Ok, I'm only going to answer one of your questions.:-)
Then you are one step closer to earning my respect.:-)
Absolutely. I do it not only on Ask Slashdot but elsewhere on the site.
Well, kudos to you. It takes a better man to practice what he preaches. However, you don't get to keep that hard earned respect by then complaining about the folks you *don't* want to help. Again, one participates in a forum like slashdot of ones own free will. No one compells you to pay any attention to the things that don't interest you.
It's just in this case the question was a "motherhood and apple pie" kind of question without any real context. Personally, I fault the editors for even posting the question.
Sometimes it takes that kind of a question to flush out the real meat of the matter. I agree with you that the question may have been ill-concieved. But doesn't it strike you as odd that not only did the editor thought this inquiry worthy of posting, but that a significant fraction of the responses made similar recomendations? Appearantly, both the editor and many posters had no trouble percieving the context of the question and suggested something along the line of CVS, SVN, or Subversion as the most suitable solutions to the problem. Others have chosen to comment on aspects of the question itself. Still more have posted common sense answer that are no less insightful. The fact that over 400 comments were made to this question and a great many of them found some way to be useful speaks volumes about the decision of the editors to post it.
I'm surprised that you don't think that people don't get real work done reading Slashdot.
I apologize if I've expressed myself badly. What I meant was that one does not (should not) treat slashdot as a service with any kind of implied quality control or standards of exellence which would be expected of something similar to a technical consultant. By virtue of the crowd this website attracts, the level of experience is very high. But one should not expect that slashdot has an obligation or responsibility to satisfy one's curiosity, technical needs, or expectations and then complain when it doesn't happen.
I'm sorry if you thought I believed guys like you shouldn't hang out here. I should have said slashdot does not exist *exclusively* as a developer's community. I simply meant there ought to be room enough for others as well, from newbies like Asmar to hardware guys like me. I sincerely hope you don't believe the kinds of people who want to sell you things are a good metric for who you are. We don't necesarily enjoy the attention of the advertisers, but that doesn't mean our vision for slashdot and desire for what it might be ought to play second fiddle to the experienced coders. If you're successful in keeping the other folks out, pretty soon you wont have anything to write programs about.
By the way, I'm genuinely curious where you learned about CVS/Subversion-type tools in school. I've taken my share of programing classes including a 3 semester sequence in C/C++ without any mention of such things. All that was more than 5 years ago, but still, has things changed that much? Thanks in advance.
I find it amusing that you actually bothered to answer my rhetorical questions. What I find most ironic is that you take this thing all so seriously. Slashdot has never been and never will be a place where hardcore IT professionals come to do serious "work" and I do mean work in the non-lesure sense. For that you go to sourceforge.net or even freshmeat.net. Honestly, how focused can you get at the place where "Beowolf cluster", "BSD is dead", and "Natalie Portman - naked & petrified - covered in hot grit" jokes got started? When you read these comments, for example, how many include professional contact information as their signeature instead of jokes and puns of varying quality? Yes, the guy who wanted to know about reusing code will get a great deal of off-topic useless crap answers (of which your's is one of, unfortunately ^_^), but I don't think anyone in their right mind would be naive enough to take EVERYTHING they read on slashdot seriously. I can't speak for Asmor the original submitter of this ask slashdot post, but he stricks me as a casual coder, a hobbyist. And hobbies are not the sort of thing done in a classroom where you pay someone to teach you stuff against a clock with the promise of exams at the end. Considering he is at the beginning of the game, he probably isn't looking for a complicated answer from a professional anyway. I think he came to slashdot because he *wants* casual answers to his casual question.
I'd like to try again and defend the appropriateness of Slashdot taking a more general inclusive attitude rather than going in a direction that caters to more seasoned professionals.
...but Slashdot wouldn't be what it is without the developer community. If there isn't enough to keep them interested, they'll all just leave. And then what do you have?
No one in the developer community was born a master coder. There is no reason why slashdot should not be a place where novices/hobbyists come to get a clue and seek advice. Even if you're going to alienate the beginner/hobbyists to cater only to experienced professionals with more technical stuff, slashdot will die a swift and spactacular death as it becomes unbarably BORING to the majority of current readers. The landscape of IT is vast and varied. Most people can claim only a very small domain within this realm. I may have a little background in embedded programing, but I'd be completely lost with a topic in, say, database design, or GUI implementation. Likewise, I'll bet there are plenty of topics which would be proper and technical, but wouldn't hold one bit of your interest. How would anyone (let alone the/. editors) decide which crowd get the attention here? (Don't answer that!) People would leave because the technical discussion fall outside of their own specialty. This place will no longer be the fun place where folks just casually hang out. As it currently operates, there is a streak of playfulness and cultural enthusiasm blended into ocasionally profound discussions of copyright restriction and software user's rights with a mish-mash of pure science and other current events thrown in. It's LIVELY and fun as well as enlightning and thought provoking. It reminds us that there is more to geekhood than code, that we are a part of the world. The bottom line is that slashdot does *not* exist as a developer community.
In that vein, I think it is absolutely proper for questions about DNA sequencing and protein synthesis to be asked here on slashdot. A great deal of IT professionals seem to forget that the computer and software which runs on them are tools - tools which are means to an end. Modern biology is one of the biggest benificiaries of the information revolution. Modeling/visualization software has provided powerful ways to actually DO molecular biology. You'd be suprised how even first year biology students are making use of a wide variety of programs in their classes. Ever wondered what the protein's you've heard about your entire l
Slashdot Mirror
Having had to battle their system and watched one bone-headed decision after another.
Please enlighten us. Not a troll or flame bait. Respectfully, I'm genuinely curious.
Note to self: going to gym regularly to try picking up girls may have additional health benefits.
....suddenly, the "OMG! PONIES!" April Fools gag on slashdot takes on a whole different meaning...
On a less lame note, does this mean young geeks are dealing with less of the aggressive bully types? And on a slightly more serious note still, I wonder if any study has been done on the role of male sex hormones in the sociobology of humans. It is a generally acknowledge (though AFAIK not yet understood) fact that women who live in the same dwelling eventually develop synchronized menstrual periods. But with regard to males, I can only think of examples in the animal kingdom where territorial males would deposit their own scent to "mark their territory"...... I'm sure someone else can come up with a better joke on that note than I could.
...welcome our new metro-sexual overlords?
That yahoo article isn't really saying much at all. There is almost no real information on how they did it. Scientific American has a much more detailed description. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&arti cleID=000E9691-0261-1524-826183414B7F0000
In taking the next step, Eugene Polzik and his colleagues at the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen shined a strong laser beam onto a cloud of room-temperature cesium atoms whose spins were all pointing in the same direction and fluctuating according to their given quantum state. The laser became entangled with the collective spin of the cloud, meaning that the quantum states of laser and gas shared the same amplitude but had opposite phases. The goal was to transfer, or teleport, the quantum state of a second light beam onto the cloud.
To do so, the group mixed a second, weaker laser pulse with the strong laser and split the superimposed beams into two arms. A detector in one arm measured the sum of the beams' amplitudes and a detector in the second arm measured the difference between their phases. Neither measurement disturbed the delicate entangled state between the light and cesium. But the researchers could use the results to apply a precise magnetic field to the cesium vapor that effectively canceled out the ensemble's original spin state and replaced it with one that corresponded to the polarization of the weak pulse, as they report in the 5 October Nature.
Other suggestions,
HireDana
KillDeepThroat
LoneGunman
BlackOil
Since the microwave photons in the waveguide are travelling close to the speed of light, .... (emphasis mine)
A couple years ago Linus came to speak at the monthly meeting of the San Francisco Bay Area Linux User's Group. They were giving out t-shirts with this on the front. It was kind of ironic because not soon after, One of the most visible linux companies in San Francisco (and a supporter/sponsor of SFBALUG) reached it's apex and began a downhill slide. What had been a cheeky joke had become suddenly very somber.
This morning the biggest corporate criminal in modern history, Kenneth Lay, died of a massive coronary...
/duck
You just watch... I'll bet he is lying yet once again.
I'm just two years younger than you, but found myself asking the same question more than 10 years ago. While in high school, in order to fulfill the arts requirements, I found myself picking up the violin for the first time with classmates who all started much earlier than I did. My music teacher had a lot to do, more or less running the school's entire music program by himself, so I didn't really blame him for not giving me too much time or attention. It was for the most part "monkey see, monkey do" for two years. It was really hard trying to catch up and keep up by myself. To be honest, I never really learned to play properly. Though I didn't have the optimal learning or playing experience, I feel I still learned enough for those two years to have been worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, I would have killed for the opportunity to learn proper vibratos, tremolos, or pizzicato techniques with adaquate guidance and instructional feedback.
To bring the discussion back to the subject at hand, here is where I think software tools are best utilized. Lots of folks here are saying things like "you don't need software! the important thing is practice! practice! practice!" When you don't have access to proper instruction, sometimes the next best thing is the greater awareness some of the tools mentioned here can provide about your own playing abilities. Years ago, I remember listening to a recording I made of myself for the first time on a tape player and realizing that despite what I thought was accurate notes from proper fingerboarding, I sounded terrible due to lousy bowing techniques. It was as if in concentrating to get the physical motions right, my brain had tuned out my ears and was not evaluating the results of those motions. Idealy, an instructor would be around to catch those mistakes you're not aware of. Sadly, software tools lack the experience and artistic factor that a capable instructor brings. And I think that is the greatest challange for older folks trying to learn in an endeavor where most resources are geared toward young beginners.
The silver lining may be that more mature students are better able to appreciate the task of seriously learning to play. Some years ago, my local PBS station broadcasted a segment of "Great Performances" called "The Art of Violin" . It was a truly thrilling program that explored the art form from the perspectives of some of today's most illustrious violinists talking about historic luminaries, each other, and most importantly, the physical instrument itself and different techniques and styles of playing that made world famous virtuosos shine in unique ways. While watching the show, I reflected on my own understanding of what I was doing all those years ago and wondered whether the younger me could comprehended what the program was saying to me now about this dynamic nuanced-filled artform, steeped in a sophisticated ever-developing tradition.
I would encourage you to follow your heart and not be too discouraged if you don't immediately sound like Itzhak Perlman. One of the most memorable things I remember from the "Great Performances" program is Perlman himself saying how much harder it is to learn the violin compared to other instruments. Though I haven't the time to really play anymore, I take my old instrument out on rare occasions and it is still satisfying to draw out a tune.
Our old thread got archived. I know posting my reply here is off-topic and probably rude. But I figure at least I can be more stimulating than soviet russia jokes.
This must mean that it's ok for me to "observe" that you've made relatively few posts with that low Slashdot ID of yours.
Your observation would be perfectly reasonable and correct. How you interpret that observation would be another matter. Does the number of posts have anything to do with how long I've observed the history and evolution of slasdot? Are you privy to the inner working of my private motivations for posting the comments that I did? Do you understand me well enough based on our one conversation here to engage in further inquiries of an ernest and civil nature? Or are you going to remain defensive and continue to maintain that you're right and I'm wrong about asmor, slashdot, and everything else? I stand by what I said. Your slashdot ID indicates you joined relatively more recently than I did. The examples and analogies you concieved indicates a lack of awareness of the way slashdot has developed and evolved over the years. I think it is rather sad that you would think Rob Malta has sold out for monetary gain when in reality he and his team have done so much over the years to make this place grow and prosper. The work they've put into continuously improve the slashcode. The valiant efforts put into dealing with conflicts and crisis that has confronted slashdot - from overcoming DDOS attacks to the ultimately failed effort to protect comment posters from the Church of Scientology. If you truly have experienced slashdot long enough to live through some of these events you would know how steadfast CmdrTaco has steered this ship with lofty ideals that could never be bought or sold. The relevent facts are that you've repeatedly complained about how slashdot doesn't suit your fancy while giving no regard for the value of this forum to other individuals who are not like you. The relevent facts are that you try to impose rules befiting of a formal professional organization when in reality most slashdot users approach this place with a casual attitude that does not bring the kind of expectations demanded of a commercial customer-centered service organization. When you've been around long enough and starts noticing more than just your own stake in slashdot, then you will understand.
Explain this one to me. You say that judging people based on their submissions is bad, and I say it's good. You "observe" my behavior and make a judgement, and then somehow it's not relative to the discussion? Your point this entire time is that I was wrong in judging Asmor, yet you try to dodge the issue when judging me.
First off, my main objection has always been the fact that you believe guys like asmor shouldn't be allowed to *post such questions* to slashdot. Your trivial dismissal of asmor as "lazy" was a secondary objection. I feel you were unnecessarily harsh on asmor because we know too little about him and the circumstances of his inquiry to make judgments or assumptions meaningful. In other words, there isn't enough information to warrant an acurate or useful assesment of a person's skill or character. On the other hand, you and I have been conversing for more than a week. You have had ample opportunity to state your case and express your opinion clearly and without ambiguity. We have engaged in an exchange of information and perspectives. It is in the spirit of this exchange that I provided to you details of slashdot's aquisition by Andover.net. This information provides context with which to evaluate your earlier remarks about the business aspect of slashdot. Based on the history of our conversation, I made a *judgment* that you lacked such information and that it would be useful to you in better understanding the nature of slashdot. It seems to me you're more concerned about the judgment that lead to the provision of this information than the information itself. Did I hurt yo
Neither. logical deduction. You have a high slashdot ID number and have devised consistantly poor analogies to characterize your understanding of slashdot and how it is run. The simple observations lead to a simple conclusion. There is no reliance on unspoken expectations, thus I do not call you ignorant for not knowing slashdot's history. There is no critical evaluation of the reason(s) for your comments and opinions, thus I do not say you are lazy for not looking things up.
But to fixate on all that is missing the point. Pressing the issue of how much you know, when you knew, or if you are expected to know a lot about slashdot is largely irrelevent. The point is to give you the opportunity to know now. I don't subscribe to a market model for community interaction. It doesn't cost me much to provide information and it is a lot less effort than being frustrated or upset at others for having need of such information. Hopefully, by my effort, the constituents of the community are better for knowing than not knowing.
You're confused. OSTG doesn't run slashdot. While they own the resources that keep slashdot running, they can't excercise content control of any kind. All of that is still done by slashdot founder, Rob Malta and his crew. Judging by your slashdot ID number, you may not have been around long enough to know that Rob Malta started slashdot long before it's association with OSTG, long before money was even on the radar. Do some research. Go look at what slashdot was like in the late nineties. Find out the circumstances under which slashdot was first aquired by a business entity. I'm tempted to call you lazy for posting before you knew what you were talking about. But that would be hypocritical. Instead, I'll chalk it up to your lack of time and experience on this forum and make nothing of it. Rather, it would be much more useful to clue you in on what I'm talking about.
note the follwing: "Why Andover?
We talked to several companies: Some that you've heard of, and some that you haven't. We were looking for a company that would guarantee us complete and total creative control, but provide us the financial resources necessary to expand Slashdot in the way we consider best "right"...... It is pretty evident to most old timers here that they've kept their word through the different times slashdot has changed hands.
Can you say hubris? Not illegal but highly irritating and probably not good for any community, be it slashdot or any other.
Eyeballs? Do you really believe CmdrTaco and Co. do this for just the ad revenue? You spoke with reference to a "truly free market". If that were true of slashdot, then anything goes, and the whole thing would turn into a popularity contest forever chasing the next big thing. Kind of like the music or entertainment industry. I very much doubt that's what you wish of slashdot. Naive and ill concieved may asmor and his question have been, but he is *not* an attention monger. The editors, sloppy as they are sometimes, are not *that* braindead. The article you referenced is heavy on the business side of things and makes a big deal of "market price". Do you think that really mean anything to those who currently run slashdot? The day slashdot gets sold is the day slashdot dies.
Your opinion initially happened to be that I *was* wrong. First thing you said to me: "Great comments, even though I think you're wrong. :-)" If the last word is that I'm wrong because the slashdot I percieve as it is and as it should be isn't the same as the one you want, then I suppose you've succeeded. I was rather hoping that we can both eventually agree on what kind of interaction on slashdot is best fore everyone. Well.... time will tell. Perhaps this new experimental tagging thing will solve some of our problems.
Ultimately, the marketplace will decide what is best. And that's ok with me because I think that truly free markets generally behave in their own best interest.
I think you've chosen an interesting analogy this time. A market place operate largely on supply/demand principles, but the influence of cost/benefit constraints and the reality of scarcity is also an integral part of the picture. Although I think a few parallels can be drawn, slashdot does not really fit the profile for a marketplace. For example, on slashdot, what would you consider to be the currency that mediates the exchange of goods? (For that matter, what goods and how exchanged?) How much such currency would guys like asmor have compared to someone like you? What would be the methods of obtaining and consuming such currency?
Your own words do not live up to the attitude you profess. I mean, pegging asmor as lazy based on one question for someone you don't know anything about is hardly positive or even neutral.
This confirms my suspicion that I'm a proxy for others, at least in part.
You need not be suspicious of anything. What was the first thing I wrote in starting this thread? "toddbu: Please understand I'm not trying to flame you in particular. This is a general reply to all those who feel the question posed by the original submitter was ill-concieved." Yes, your characteristicly elitist comments earns you the burden of speaking for all those who feels the same as you do. But I gotta say, shifting the essence of my response to direct it onto others rather than yourself does nothing to change the ideas you've expressed. And you're still dodging the issue: What justifies your criticism of asmor's comment but not mine of yours? How is it that your "judgement call" is fair, but I'm being biased when I respond to your comments? Just because I don't agree with you? Despite your initial assertion, you have yet to *prove* me wrong.
Did you read my first post? Carefully? I don't think that I could have spelled it out any better. But this is where bias comes into play. Either you didn't take the time to read the post because I pushed a "hot button" for you, or you chose to focus in on the perceived negatives and ignore the rest of the post. I challenge you to reread the post, looking at it from a positive prespective for both the community and the individual. I think that you'll find a lot of great stuff in there.
Unfortunately, asmor has not made further comments to elucidate his intentions or provide feedback. So I can't tell if I made the right call in giving him the benefit of the doubt. You, however, have made you point repeatedly in subsequent posts. Your very first comment, in essence, complains about asmor's post not being useful or interesting to you, described what *would* interest you, then declares asmor's question trivial and tells him to go to school. Unfortunately, in your subequent comments no where do I see any positiveness directed at either asmor or this community. Your comments do not bring asmor any useful information. Nor does it add to the usefulness or quality of slashdot in any perceptible way. During the course of this discussion, you advocate restricting participation in this forum only to those of high experience at the expense of those less experienced. Through out the discussion, you keep telling me to carefully reread what you wrote. Maybe *I* should spell it out for *you*. Positive to me, means "Asmor, you question is very ambigious and ill-formed. The following books and website discusses ****, ****, and **** in more detail and depth than any comments you're going to get on slashdot ....... Once you've gotten the hang of those concepts, come back and maybe we'll discuss how you can use those ideas in useful and interesting ways. For what it's worth, my background is in the following, ******." It doesn't coddle or insult anyone. It's direct, it's concise, and it doesn't rely on any assumptions or "judgements" of any kind. It seems to me that in the end, you are guilty of the very thing you complain about asmor. You say his question suffers from lack of context and poor research. But your own comments offer not one useful piece of information and pretty much dismisses the whole thing altogether as being trivial because it happened to be uninteresting to you without any regard for the rest of the community.
Seriously, I will agree that I was pushing him for something better. If you want to read that as "get off your ass" then so be it. Nothing wrong with that. If he wants to waste community b
Not a problem. I was going to be a bit disappointed that the most interesting conversation I've had since I can remember has come to an end. :-) Before I respond in more detail however, I'd like to juxtapose two of your comments:
We all come to the party with preconceived notions.....
and
Do you sense a certain imbalance of standards here? From just the few sentences asmor wrote, you've made a "judgement" that he is lazy. How in the world did asmor manage to *prove* he is lazy? On the other hand, you're asking me to leave behind any bias I may have from just the few lines *you* wrote. I really don't know how to do that. At the very least I'd have some questions about why you feel justified in saying what you've said. I believe I've already explained the reason I'm defending asmor, but let me state it again: It is daunting to start at the beginning. When you haven't seen much to begin with, you *don't* have a context to place everything. So all the questions you may have, even all the information at your disposal means that much less because you don't have much of a foundation to anchor any of it. In that regard, asmor's inappropriate use of big terms is understandable. The way I see it, asmor is asking for a lifeline in a choppy, noisy sea of information. I believe he has every right to do that, because for him, I really don't see any alternative if he's lost and confused.
Nothing. But a better community for who? We've been here before. Besides, it's rather ineffectual if you offer only criticism without practical solutions. You want Washington to clean up it's act? So do I. But those guys were voted into office - how do you suppose that happened? We can both agree that as is, it's screwed up. But do you (or I) really know enough to fix the system? How would you balance state's rights with federal authority? How do you reign in or punish the fat cats without hurting the masses of regular folks who work for them? Even in our own immediate context, the situation is hardly black and white. So you don't like asmor asking for help. Well, why could't you tell him where else to go if not slashdot? Given the chance to offer him other resources to address his problems, you chose to tell him to go to school. Is that really any more practical or effective than say asking the politicians to wise up and be more honest? Niether measure can definitively solve the immediate problem at hand. I admire you for your high ideals, but don't care much for your lack of practical common sense. In fact, I originally percieve that you intentionally suggested such an involved and high commitment solution to his rather innocuous question just to spite him. As in, "lazy bastard! get off your ass and get busy!" That's why I thought you were taunting him.
I strongly disagree with that conclusion. For the forseeable future at least, book are not going to respond to questions or offer feedback. However, that sort of thing is what communities like slashdot does best. With the enormous numbers of eyeballs and experiences available, general open-ended questions can be addressed from a multitude of perspectives. And the discussion can respond to the nature of the inquiry by going in whatever direction is desired. Even ill-formed questions like asmor's has a chance to be interpreted in multiple ways, one of which (hopefully) would end up being useful to the asker. In contrast, specific questions most often have specific answers which are best looked up in reference volumes. The only good use for a community in such a case is if one of those extra eyeballs happened to be familiar with the
A dialogue is an exchange between two voices (di - 2). Whereas the larger group discussion I was a part of addressed a newbie's experience level and the appropriateness of his somewhat basic question, my conversation specifically touched on the role of slashdot and the responsibility of the slashdot as a community. I felt my leaf more directly addressed the issue raised by the submitter, but no one is keeping you from reading the rest.
I'm sorry for the confusion. I took you to mean the guy is a jerk for being in a position to help but choosing to taunt you instead. That was my intended illustration anyway.
thereby making Ask Slashdot less useful for people like me.
For what it's worth, I think I understand you enough now to feel *your* frustration. Please understand that it seem initially like you blame asmor for your problems, as in: "The less experienced coders are taking your slashdot away from you. BAD NEWBIES!!" And that just seems selfish and arrogant. I don't know if it is any comfort to you that your "sacrifice" has made things more interesting for those of us who truly do find more basic information useful. If you truly support equal participation for all slashdot users, your patience may eventually see some of us becoming experienced enough to entertain you on your terms.
Do I need to end all my posts with XXOO?
Not at all. Like I said, I don't care if you personally like me or not. I'm more interested in the perceptive insights and interesting ideas you can offer to challange my own world view and further my own enlightenment. I hope the sentiment is mutual.
Why is it alarming that I should want to be a part of a community that's geared toward more advanced users?
Because you expect slashdot to be that community. /*grin*/ slashdot for crying out loud! Okay, on second thought, maybe that isn't so much alarming as...er...funny. For what it's worth, Bruce Perens of Debian fame became disillusioned with slashdot a long time ago. In response to the lousy signal to noise ratio at slashdot, he established http://technocrat.net/ as "a more mature forum than Slashdot". You might be much happier there. I'm guessing it is more likely they don't "deal with n00bs".
It's a judgement call, which is far different than an assumption.
I don't know if it will be of any use to pursue this particular tact. It's splitting hairs. Judgement call, assumption - what *is* the difference? Basically, I thought you called him lazy and I felt it was unjustified.
When I was a kid, I was really interested in the space program....
This is the second time you've involked the idea of of "if it is good enough for me it ought to be good enough for others". Which, I guess, is a reasonable perspective. But read that a certain way and it becomes a variation of "my way is the only good way - for everyone". Just because you happened not to have asked for help in pursuing something doesn't mean it is wrong for others to seek help. It is a matter of choice. You may pass judgement on the choice others make, but how and why would you expect that personal opinion of yours to be of any significance? If you're trying to inspire someone to be more self-sufficient, it would be far more productive to actually suggest some resources. you know? "teach a man how to fish.." and all that. Don't just brag about how good you are and taunt someone else for being a bad fisherman (for whatever reason).
Perhaps this is off topic, as I have no suggestions for software features, but coincidentally, I'm currently engaged in a very spirited dialogue here on slashdot that addresses the treatment of novices or beginners who may not have enough experience to ask for what they really want in an online community. To address your question, I think whatever moderation system or customer support you may implement ought to make extra efforts to be inclusive and take care of the well-meaning but often clueless guys. The greatest asset of any online community isn't the mechanism or web feature of the portal, it is the participation of the members and the spirit of community they set out to build.
you didin't ? In response to a hypothetical asterik guru who snubs you - "...I'd just brush the guy off as a jerk and read the good responses."
You can't be serious. On Slashdot? :-) .....
I don't particularly percieve (or care) that you don't like me, nor am I personally offended by anything you've said thus far. Like you, I am simply trying to argue a point; mine being - restricting entry level inquiries of the type submited by guys like asmor is not in the best interest of slashdot and the community spirit which slashdot represents.
I don't think an RTFM response in and of itself is disrespectful, but your assumption that someone ought to do so because they're being lazy *is*. Without knowing someone's motivation for asking a question, you imediately had him pegged as someone who's trying to get others to do his homework. Remember, I responded to your original comment by remarking that for someone who is none the wiser, even rudamentary concepts can be hard to grasp. How can you investigate the answer when you don't even understand enough to formulate the question? And when you can't formulate the first question, where do you begin? These are the kind of problems best solved by mentoring, which is what I believe asmor has a right to be seeking.
For the record, I must confess that I *am* probably being sensitive, but I believe righteously so. At some point in the past, we've all been where asmor is right now. No one should forget how hard it is to first start out on something. RTFM, however blunt, may be a proper response to such a person. However, no one, no matter how experienced or brilliant, should have the right to tell an ernest beginner he/she is wrong to ask questions to begin with.
I've conceeded the point in an earlier post that Slashdot is as much yours as mine....
Yet you complain about the fact that newbie questions like asmor's which do not sufficiently engage experienced IT profesionals (who know better) do not deserve a place on slashdot. Do you think that's fair? I find it very telling you consistantly ignore the option of simply not responding to the likes of asmor. It appears to me this entire conversation is built upon a very active and persistant objection on your part to the participation of asmor as a novice coder in the slashdot community in the interest of making it more worthwhile for the more experienced programmers.
I get the feeling that I've become a proxy for every rude and inconsiderate comment that you've ever seen on Slashdot. I think that you need to learn the distinction between comments that are made for the betterment of the community....
No, not really. Just the condescending ones. :-) Some of the more disparaging remarks here on slashdot are quit funny in the style and manner of the put-down. In regards to your remarks, I'm just a little alarmed at the seriousness of your attitude, that you genuinely believe squelching curiosity and questioning of the more basic variety is actually good for a community which thrives on knowledge and creativity.
hmm... Asmor is a guy just getting to know the ropes. You know this stuff well enough to teach it at the university level. You tell him his questions are ill-formulated and that he himself is lazy. Then you suggest he place himself under the wings of a trained academic, of the type you belong to. Need I say more?
It says to me that half of that half are posts by those whom you would consider jerks.
I don't think posts on CVS or Subversion are what this guy was looking for...
Perhaps you should let Asmor decide from among the (useful) 400 comments what he is looking for. As there are often no single correct answer, there are often no single correct interpertation of a question. A broad multi-faceted question such as this can have several appropriate answers depending on the level of skill a coder has and the complexity of his/her project/assignment. For me, the key idea in his inquiry is the last sentence: "How do you store and maintain your most frequently used code?" smart code structuring, libraries, and CVS can all be appropriate solutions under appropriate circumstances. I think the part that is irritating you is that Asmor doesn't have enough programming experience to recognize the difference among his options much less how to use them wisely. In that respect, I think all these comments, varied as they are, are useful and gives him exposure to some ideas which he never would have encountered had he not bothered to ask his question.
A few years back I left my high-paying job to take a one-year teaching position at a local university (at 1/3 of the pay).
That still doesn't change the fact that you've not only refused to help Asmor, you've gone to great lengths to criticize the manner he is asking for help. It seems to me you're reacting to this poor guy as if he is one of your students. If he was paying tuition and making use of your time, I think it would be a totally apropriate response on your part. But this is slashdot, where people profess and BS for free in equal measure. If you must insist, however, couldn't you maybe (just maybe) pretend that the guy doesn't have the prereqs to take your class just yet? That wouldn't be his fault, would it?
So to answer your question directly, I picked up source control in the mid 90s while working at a large Fortune 500 company.....
Considering you learned it by exposure in the workplace, isn't it a bit hypocritical to suggest that Asmor go to school? Okay, let me apologize for that and back off a moment. Assuming you do teach this topic at your university teaching position, how would this topic be presented? If I was one of your students, how far from the beginning would you present this idea and in what context? Let's say we wish to properly study this topic. Can you recomend textbooks for Asmor (and me)?
Some level of exclusivity is good. In fact, that's why there's a moderation system.
Pitty you didn't have mod points to deal with the likes of Asmor, huh? :-P Hey, maybe there really *should* be mod points for stories as well as comments. That'll really keep the editors on their toes, knowing their efforts are moded as well. Heehee...
"Second fiddle" is a just a state of mind. If you really feel this way then your problem isn't a lack of knowledge, it's a lack of self-respect.
What I said had nothing to do with self-perception or self-respect. It's about public respect and social etiquette. To use your analogy, we're in a room. Even if doctors are the only ones you want to talk to, they are not the only occupants. Those who don't participate in your discussions are not obligated to because the facility is just as much theirs as it is yours. Keeping your own crowd exclusive is fine if you don't want to hang with the others. However, you don't get to be rude by using louder voices or hogging the refreshment stand just because you feel more entitled to the use of the room. So please have some respect for the doctors, too. Kindly explain to them how you found that race condition in their diagnostic imaging software in terms they can understand and I'm sure they'll be grateful enough to answer any health concerns you may have in terms you will understand.
Then you are one step closer to earning my respect. :-)
Absolutely. I do it not only on Ask Slashdot but elsewhere on the site.
Well, kudos to you. It takes a better man to practice what he preaches. However, you don't get to keep that hard earned respect by then complaining about the folks you *don't* want to help. Again, one participates in a forum like slashdot of ones own free will. No one compells you to pay any attention to the things that don't interest you.
It's just in this case the question was a "motherhood and apple pie" kind of question without any real context. Personally, I fault the editors for even posting the question.
Sometimes it takes that kind of a question to flush out the real meat of the matter. I agree with you that the question may have been ill-concieved. But doesn't it strike you as odd that not only did the editor thought this inquiry worthy of posting, but that a significant fraction of the responses made similar recomendations? Appearantly, both the editor and many posters had no trouble percieving the context of the question and suggested something along the line of CVS, SVN, or Subversion as the most suitable solutions to the problem. Others have chosen to comment on aspects of the question itself. Still more have posted common sense answer that are no less insightful. The fact that over 400 comments were made to this question and a great many of them found some way to be useful speaks volumes about the decision of the editors to post it.
I'm surprised that you don't think that people don't get real work done reading Slashdot.
I apologize if I've expressed myself badly. What I meant was that one does not (should not) treat slashdot as a service with any kind of implied quality control or standards of exellence which would be expected of something similar to a technical consultant. By virtue of the crowd this website attracts, the level of experience is very high. But one should not expect that slashdot has an obligation or responsibility to satisfy one's curiosity, technical needs, or expectations and then complain when it doesn't happen.
I'm sorry if you thought I believed guys like you shouldn't hang out here. I should have said slashdot does not exist *exclusively* as a developer's community. I simply meant there ought to be room enough for others as well, from newbies like Asmar to hardware guys like me. I sincerely hope you don't believe the kinds of people who want to sell you things are a good metric for who you are. We don't necesarily enjoy the attention of the advertisers, but that doesn't mean our vision for slashdot and desire for what it might be ought to play second fiddle to the experienced coders. If you're successful in keeping the other folks out, pretty soon you wont have anything to write programs about.
By the way, I'm genuinely curious where you learned about CVS/Subversion-type tools in school. I've taken my share of programing classes including a 3 semester sequence in C/C++ without any mention of such things. All that was more than 5 years ago, but still, has things changed that much? Thanks in advance.
I find it amusing that you actually bothered to answer my rhetorical questions. What I find most ironic is that you take this thing all so seriously. Slashdot has never been and never will be a place where hardcore IT professionals come to do serious "work" and I do mean work in the non-lesure sense. For that you go to sourceforge.net or even freshmeat.net. Honestly, how focused can you get at the place where "Beowolf cluster", "BSD is dead", and "Natalie Portman - naked & petrified - covered in hot grit" jokes got started? When you read these comments, for example, how many include professional contact information as their signeature instead of jokes and puns of varying quality? Yes, the guy who wanted to know about reusing code will get a great deal of off-topic useless crap answers (of which your's is one of, unfortunately ^_^), but I don't think anyone in their right mind would be naive enough to take EVERYTHING they read on slashdot seriously. I can't speak for Asmor the original submitter of this ask slashdot post, but he stricks me as a casual coder, a hobbyist. And hobbies are not the sort of thing done in a classroom where you pay someone to teach you stuff against a clock with the promise of exams at the end. Considering he is at the beginning of the game, he probably isn't looking for a complicated answer from a professional anyway. I think he came to slashdot because he *wants* casual answers to his casual question.
I'd like to try again and defend the appropriateness of Slashdot taking a more general inclusive attitude rather than going in a direction that caters to more seasoned professionals.
No one in the developer community was born a master coder. There is no reason why slashdot should not be a place where novices/hobbyists come to get a clue and seek advice. Even if you're going to alienate the beginner/hobbyists to cater only to experienced professionals with more technical stuff, slashdot will die a swift and spactacular death as it becomes unbarably BORING to the majority of current readers. The landscape of IT is vast and varied. Most people can claim only a very small domain within this realm. I may have a little background in embedded programing, but I'd be completely lost with a topic in, say, database design, or GUI implementation. Likewise, I'll bet there are plenty of topics which would be proper and technical, but wouldn't hold one bit of your interest. How would anyone (let alone the /. editors) decide which crowd get the attention here? (Don't answer that!) People would leave because the technical discussion fall outside of their own specialty. This place will no longer be the fun place where folks just casually hang out. As it currently operates, there is a streak of playfulness and cultural enthusiasm blended into ocasionally profound discussions of copyright restriction and software user's rights with a mish-mash of pure science and other current events thrown in. It's LIVELY and fun as well as enlightning and thought provoking. It reminds us that there is more to geekhood than code, that we are a part of the world. The bottom line is that slashdot does *not* exist as a developer community.
In that vein, I think it is absolutely proper for questions about DNA sequencing and protein synthesis to be asked here on slashdot. A great deal of IT professionals seem to forget that the computer and software which runs on them are tools - tools which are means to an end. Modern biology is one of the biggest benificiaries of the information revolution. Modeling/visualization software has provided powerful ways to actually DO molecular biology. You'd be suprised how even first year biology students are making use of a wide variety of programs in their classes. Ever wondered what the protein's you've heard about your entire l