I'm strongly of this opinion. I think the non-subscribers got screwed out of functionality that they paid for, but I'm also a TiVo subscriber that can't imagine living without the service (nor could my wife).
Free subscriptions until the problem is fixed would do two things; first, put a lid on the complaints; and second, undoubtedly convert a bunch of people into subscribers.
The truth is that this doesn't matter. The original units were sold as service-optional devices. Period.
Removing functionality that was part of what the owner paid for is a bad thing. The requirement to dial in to set the clock made this update unavoidable, which is forgotten by those that are blaming the victims.
--Mike
Philips 82 hour TiVo, 2.0.1-200, Lifetime Sub
Are you waiting for us to talk you into buy a TiVo?
If not, why are you bothering to tell us any of this? Perhaps next, you can tell us why you decided on a sandwich for lunch, instead of a salad. I'm sure you'd be just as interested to hear why I chose my current cell phone service plan.
What you've highlighted here is that the service and convenience of a TiVo are not worth $10/mo to you. Guess what, we all make similar determinations many times, every day.
Recently, TivoMad's come out with a dual drive upgrade utility. 2x80's (200 hour) is the latest bragging-right.
It only works from a stock (or restored stock) system, so I think I'll just live with my 92 hour unit. Not that I can catch up on the 22 hours of best quality recording I have...
The last time I checked a PVR provides a whole lot more functionality than a VCR. Do some research on the differences before you equate the two.
Guide information on web sites is paid for with advertising, and I wonder how the revenue stream for those sites is doing now that banner ad rates are in the toilet. Perhaps TiVo should put banner ads across the top of every show you watch, and stop charging a fee for service. That would be popular, wouldn't it? (Yes, I know it would probably be illegal, too)
Back to guide data: Where, pray tell, would this magical free information be coming from? If the free guide data is on sites that generate income from advertisers, but the only visits they get are from PVR bots, how long will they be around? I mean, they're not putting all this data together for you, and paying the associated server and bandwidth cost, out of charity. If the PVR manufacturers generate the data, the customer is going to pay for it somehow. Likewise, if the cable companies can find something more to charge you for, I think they will; guide data for a small monthly fee...or "free", hidden in your bill.
Everyone's looking for a free lunch, and there isn't one.
There will probably be free, simple, non-proprietary web-based lookups of program information and broadcasters and cable stations will increasingly make that information available in a standard format.
I'm cynical enough to think that these companies will charge for the data if they think there's money to be made. Even if it looks free, the subscribers will pay for it in slightly increased rates.
And to be fair, how common would you say your setup is?
I'm only saying this because in a vast majority of the cases where the subscription is not being purchased, the reason is not a technical one (like yours). I would hazard to guess that if the hardware inputs and the guide data were to encompass all of your feeds, you would like the service.
Fred (the first poster) "helped" TiVo very little. If he never subscribed to their service, TiVo lost money on the sale of the hardware. So, in fact, though he might have "helped" by increasing the number of units sold, he was actually a net loss for the company.
Consider it similar to buying a console gaming box, then never using it. (for the purposes of benefit to the console maker)
TiVo has been very cool to their customers. Those of us who have ethically hacked (no theft of service) our units have not been hassled, and the 2.0.1 upgrade was widely beta tested on hacked units to smooth out bumps. How easy would it have been for them to screw that community during an upgrade? Of course, that community consists of paying customers...(to TiVo, not Sony or Phillips, who manufacture the hardware)
A question for you: Why don't you just sell the box to someone who actually has a use for the full functionality? This is how I paid for my last trip to CES (won an MP3 player that I didn't need).
I'm not sure that inconvenient is the right word when it comes to commercials. It seems that there's an even chance that viewers are waiting for the commericials so that it will be more convenient to grab a snack, hit the bathroom, throw in some laundry, etc.
It might be more accurate to say that if the viewer does not have something they are waiting to do, they are more likely to watch the commercial if they do not have the means to fast forward through it.
But, how many people wouldn't, or couldn't, watch the show at all if they couldn't time shift it? It seems to me that the increased number of viewers, no matter what percentage fast-forward through the commercials, are worth the broadcaster's while.
Slashdot Mirror
I'd bring up the concept of ethics, as distinct from law, but given present company it would be a waste of time.
I'm strongly of this opinion. I think the non-subscribers got screwed out of functionality that they paid for, but I'm also a TiVo subscriber that can't imagine living without the service (nor could my wife).
Free subscriptions until the problem is fixed would do two things; first, put a lid on the complaints; and second, undoubtedly convert a bunch of people into subscribers.
Sow's ear->purse
--Mike
The truth is that this doesn't matter. The original units were sold as service-optional devices. Period.
Removing functionality that was part of what the owner paid for is a bad thing. The requirement to dial in to set the clock made this update unavoidable, which is forgotten by those that are blaming the victims.
--Mike
Philips 82 hour TiVo, 2.0.1-200, Lifetime Sub
Are you waiting for us to talk you into buy a TiVo?
If not, why are you bothering to tell us any of this? Perhaps next, you can tell us why you decided on a sandwich for lunch, instead of a salad. I'm sure you'd be just as interested to hear why I chose my current cell phone service plan.
What you've highlighted here is that the service and convenience of a TiVo are not worth $10/mo to you. Guess what, we all make similar determinations many times, every day.
--Mike
I will not disagree with you on the changed functionality issue.
Yes, but DirecTV is countering theft of service. The TiVo update reduces functionality of hardware that is being utilized in a legal manner.
Recently, TivoMad's come out with a dual drive upgrade utility. 2x80's (200 hour) is the latest bragging-right.
It only works from a stock (or restored stock) system, so I think I'll just live with my 92 hour unit. Not that I can catch up on the 22 hours of best quality recording I have...
The last time I checked a PVR provides a whole lot more functionality than a VCR. Do some research on the differences before you equate the two.
Guide information on web sites is paid for with advertising, and I wonder how the revenue stream for those sites is doing now that banner ad rates are in the toilet. Perhaps TiVo should put banner ads across the top of every show you watch, and stop charging a fee for service. That would be popular, wouldn't it? (Yes, I know it would probably be illegal, too)
Back to guide data: Where, pray tell, would this magical free information be coming from? If the free guide data is on sites that generate income from advertisers, but the only visits they get are from PVR bots, how long will they be around? I mean, they're not putting all this data together for you, and paying the associated server and bandwidth cost, out of charity. If the PVR manufacturers generate the data, the customer is going to pay for it somehow. Likewise, if the cable companies can find something more to charge you for, I think they will; guide data for a small monthly fee...or "free", hidden in your bill.
Everyone's looking for a free lunch, and there isn't one.
--Mike
I'm cynical enough to think that these companies will charge for the data if they think there's money to be made. Even if it looks free, the subscribers will pay for it in slightly increased rates.
--Mike
And to be fair, how common would you say your setup is?
I'm only saying this because in a vast majority of the cases where the subscription is not being purchased, the reason is not a technical one (like yours). I would hazard to guess that if the hardware inputs and the guide data were to encompass all of your feeds, you would like the service.
--Mike
Fred (the first poster) "helped" TiVo very little. If he never subscribed to their service, TiVo lost money on the sale of the hardware. So, in fact, though he might have "helped" by increasing the number of units sold, he was actually a net loss for the company.
Consider it similar to buying a console gaming box, then never using it. (for the purposes of benefit to the console maker)
TiVo has been very cool to their customers. Those of us who have ethically hacked (no theft of service) our units have not been hassled, and the 2.0.1 upgrade was widely beta tested on hacked units to smooth out bumps. How easy would it have been for them to screw that community during an upgrade? Of course, that community consists of paying customers...(to TiVo, not Sony or Phillips, who manufacture the hardware)
A question for you: Why don't you just sell the box to someone who actually has a use for the full functionality? This is how I paid for my last trip to CES (won an MP3 player that I didn't need).
I think it's more like 80%, due to the mind control satellite feeds. Wear your foil helmet.
I should have included the SARCASM tag on that last line...
It might be more accurate to say that if the viewer does not have something they are waiting to do, they are more likely to watch the commercial if they do not have the means to fast forward through it.
But, how many people wouldn't, or couldn't, watch the show at all if they couldn't time shift it? It seems to me that the increased number of viewers, no matter what percentage fast-forward through the commercials, are worth the broadcaster's while.
--Mike