I'm just really bored and have pretty much run out of stuff to say. He started it and I'm bored enough to reply because I stopped giving a shit. Anyways, your point with the Theory of Relativity is well-taken. I still don't agree with it and still think Einstein got too much credit for his work and people are willing to shove Einstein up to God status.
You can find many people who will refute any given theory, and seemingly quite intelligently. The trick is finding one of
these people who isn't a raving paranoid looney. There are plenty of people out there with websites who can give you
reams of evidence that everything you know is wrong, but then discredit themselves by claiming the government killed
their dog to shut them up, or claiming that satan lives in their microwave. Their are also people who are willing to jump off a tall building because a comet passed near the Earth, doesn't mean the majority is right, it just means it is more accepted.
I didn't know that. I guess all this quantum mechanics stuff is bullshit. I never ditched Quantum Physics. I actually agree with 99% of it. I'm sure most of it is true. Since we can't really see electrons, we can pretty much guarantee that not all of it is going to be true but most likely, most of it will be true.
As for f=ma, it was the first thing that popped into my mind. I could've came up with a better formula like d=do +vt+1/2A*t^2+1^/6dA^3 +1/24dda^4+1/120ddda^5 +... or something like that. That formula is still not impressive. Most physic formulas are not that complex nor are they impressive so which one are you going to choose.
As for the cursing and shit like that, I just do it because I'm bored and having nothing better to do. If I wanted to be professional, I would. Fortunately, this is a publc forum and I can say whatever I want. ----
On the other, you are _not smart_. On the other hand, I am smart and you are dumb. Dumb I say. Anybody else enjoying this more then I am. I get sick of dumb people who call other people dumb because they have nothing better to do and instead of trying to refute someone elses claim, they resort to name calling. ----
I'm trying to prove to the guy in the above post that photons have mass people. Do you even read the previous posts? Also, in theory, a photon might be at rest in relationship to another object. ----
Most DOS games were hardware specific. This was sometimes good because you could directly write to the hardware but meant more development time which translated to less game development time. This was less then appealing. DirectX isn't the greatest API but it works. OpenGL is a little better and faster most of the time. Still, when we start going back to hw specific programs, it will limit the market.
Have you ever thought of, I don't know, thinking for yourself. If you don't know how, generally, a fission bomb works, you are just fooling yourself. When it actually comes down to it, we really don't know. We know how fission works. We can split an atom and make two or more smaller ones. Unfortunately, we can't actually "see" what is happening as we split the atom because we can't see electrons or neutrons or protons or actual photons as we split it. So, we have to make educated guesses. Some sound more sci-fi then others that are based on other theories while others try to explain the release the energy using a hierarchial system, in other words, using larger models instead of trying to explain that their is just energy released during the process without reason of how this energy travels or how this energy is stored or stating that energy can be somehow changed to mass and vice versa. If you can't see something and are only making educated guesses, you really don't know. Yes, we explain the fission using the strong and weak force and we know energy is released. This is not the controversy. The controversy is, is their anything special about light and its velocity? Since light is theoretically limited by the EM force, if you eliminate EM, we should be able to go faster then light. And what's with relative velocity? We have a highly sci-fi and highly unproven theory that relative velocity disappears at the speed of light. I think it's highly bullshit that their is any such thing. It wouldn't make sense in an infinite space. Anyways, my point is, we really don't know, we can only theorize and their are more then one theories to try to explain the unknown and myself offering one to you that might have the possibility with some research behind it does not make me a troll.
Just because someone has a difference of an opinion than you does not make them stupid or a troll. I'm actually quite an intelligent person(I don't use the preview button before I press submit and check my mistakes) but I'm still an intelligent person with an opinion and you sir are a Lemming. ----
Because I knew approximately how much it was..75 millions of dollars is close enough to get the point across. If I really cared about the specifics, I would look it up. ----
I didn't bother looking up the exchange because personall I don't really care. Anyways, at the height of the US economy, I know it was down to like 85 cents on the dollar. It still isn't very much money. What will that buy you, 3.75 McDonalds. ----
If you are so correct then explain again why photons are attracted to black holes. If photons are virtual particles that have no mass, they shouldn't be attracted to gravity, now should they. Yet, the fundamental concept of a black hole in fact that Black holes have such high levels of gravity(or the theory that Unifies Gravity, EM, strong, weak force, etc.(I can't think of it right now)) that passing photons don't have enough momentum to escape or orbit the ball of mass. Their is too much gravity and it may orbit a few times but each time it gets closer and closer because it is effected by gravity. Explain now that photons have no mass and that photons vs. electrons and the alike are somehow different. Do this to my satisfactory and I may actually take you seriously, supruzr. ----
One small thought: Momentum does not equall energy. They are related but they are not the same. Energy = Mass * Velocity ^2(Einstein simply replaced V with C in his famous formula E=MC^2 because it is generally a relative constant.) Momentum = Mass*Velocity. Small Difference. To assume you have momentum, you have to assume you have mass.
Energy is something that can be measured but isn't real as it actually exists. It is the product of several components. Einstein crossed the line and said Energy existed and could be converted to Mass and Mass could be converted to energy as what happened in the big bang. I don't see it. Energy has never been proven to exist without the existence of Mass. So far, you need mass to have energy and energy to have mass. If you set the m=0 in the formula Energy = Mass * Velocity^2, Energy suddenly equals 0. Suddenly, we have a problem. Anyways, my point is: either mass exists or energy exists, not both or it leaves the remote possibility of this formula being wrong. Science has yet to solve this problem conclusively. ----
Just because a bunch of people do something stupid, does not make it any less stupid.
I know what the hell 'Priori' means, I'm just ignoring it. It relates more to you then me. Mostly everybody believed the world was flat once but is that the case. NO(I said that about 2 posts ago.) I agree with the Anonymous Poster, you need to have a more of an open mind. Something with as little proof as their is needs to be questioned. I spilled theory on your plate. I never said it was right. I said it had the possibility of being right. I don't agree with Einstein's theory of relativity because it has problems(too many assumed unproven theories.) I've read many Physics books and have taken several physic's classes and understand theory. I just don't agree with it. I'm probably in a better position to argue because I ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND PHYSICS. Their are more then one theory, live with it. Try to prove yours right. I'll believe it when I see it. Like I said earlier, everything we deal with are still theories. Just because millions of people believe something and continues the theory by researching it and building on it, does not make it more right. People will believe what they want to believe. ----
You told me to get a clue because I'm shouting out theory against your belief. I told you to get a clue because you are shouting out theory that has no evidence behind it, just one or two people. So be it. ----
I understand it better than you do. You are just trying to lop everything into two different categories. Particles that are pure energy and those who are not. Do this if you want to but you are just making a fool of yourself. Why should photons be any different then any other particles, Really. You are mixing predetermined theory with OPTs(other people's thoughts.) Science does not say that someone comes up with a theory without real world research and everybody believes it or does not try to prove it wrong. No, people do real research for and against. Everything we are talking are unproven theories and I think we should leave it at that. Repetition: Particles on a higher level act exactly the same way as particles on a lower level given the same conditions except on a larger scale.
As for my philosophy report, I got a pure A. It was an Arguement against St. Thomas of Aquinas fifth arguement in his five ways of St. Aquinas(the argument against Intelligent Design). It's completely theory with a lot of Umph behind. I'm not the person who came up with the theory or am I the one who keeps the theory going. Their are a lot of facts behind it. None, 100% conclusive but still, they exist. Everything we are talking about is still theory and most of it hasn't been proven. Until I see proof otherwise or actually have evidence for your case, I will be inclined to go against it. ----
Your argument
about photons being definitely a particle is not really supported by a variety of neat experiments. It is supported by as many experiment as those that do not support it. Pure energy has never been proven to exist so logic says Photons must be in the form of a mass since everything else exists in the form of a mass.
I am not so happy with your claim that energy does not exist... one could argue that mass does not exist, it is merely energy condensed to a
slow vibration. I could easily argue that too. I don't believe it but I could argue that mass does not exist. Their is also an interesting theory that mass does not exist(and I did a 20 page philosophy report on this(believe it or not)) on the basis that if you look at something like a proton and you zoom in really close, what do you find, a particle divided among many particles. If you look at one of these particles and zoom in farther, what should you theoretically find, a particle that is actually composed of even smaller particles. If you zoom in one of those particles, what should you find, a division among smaller particle. Repeat the cycle. So, in theory, their is almost no mass in a particle. Their are naturally problems with this theory and is based on a hierarchial system of zooming in on something like a galaxy. Anyways, everything we are argueing about are still in theory and none of them have been proven to the satisfaction of the world or becoming a law. ----
Mass does not exist in the form of energy. Via. the formula E=mv^2. Mass multiplies by a particles velocity squared. Second of all, you are forgetting about relativity and mediums. Light travels different velocities in different medians in a very thin spectrum of velocities. Light can travel faster in Vacuums than it can in an atmosphere. Relative velocity is another thing. If a particle is going 100 meters south and another is going 100 meters north then their relative velocity is 200 meters n to s. Another thing, light does truely travel in waves. It is MEASURED in waves. It is a frequency people. The time it takes from one particle to hit something until the next one hits the same object. Learn the difference.
On effecting the velocity of an electron. Momentum=MV. The mass of a photon is very tiny. It would take a very high velocity to change the course of one electron or millions upon millions of photons. I agree with you on this point. Anyways, the point is, Energy does not really exist. It is a measurement of velocity and mass. People always seem to forget about relativity when talking about velocities. All masses have relativity, even very small ones and that changes what the value is measured as. We are just so used to having approximately the same relativity because Earth and the stars are traveling relatively compared to the velocity of a light particle. ----
It's not just the fact that Microsoft writes "swiss cheese software(although they do)" it is the fact that people hate Microsoft so much that they write software in order to destroy Microsoft. When is the last time you seen a virus that targeted Apache Web server. Fewer people hate Unix or Apache then they do hate Microsoft so more people are likely to target their software and OS. It's like, who is more likely to get assasinated, Adolf Hitler or Theodore Roosevelt? Who do you think has more of a love-hate relationship. ----
If they do that(I'm sure eventually if enough people get TIVO's they will), it will hurt the industry more then it will help it I don't want to watch the running back catch the ball on the fifty yard line, do this perfect run to the goalpost, do a little dance, take off his helmet and start talking about how close his shaver/shaving creams get a good shave. I'll turn off the TV. I won't listen to that. Their shall be atleast some seperation of TV and Advertising. I'll watch more pay TV so I won't have to listen to this. No consumer wants it. People buy TIVOs for convenience, not to listen to mid-show commercials. It would certainly make TV initially less popular until more people got used to the concept. Those who have lived without it will naturally always rebel. ----
You missed the point. Radiation are photons that have momentum and momentum=M*V. So if photons hit an electron and causing it to slow down, that would be deceleration. Considering the size of an electron compared to that of a photon, electrons are much bigger then photons so photons would need a much greater velocity to slow down an electron significantly. ----
I'm right, you just don't understand my post. All you have to do is calculate the digits that effect a decimal point and sum them up to get that point. Via. to get the second decimal, you don't care about what the first binary decimal is because it can only be a.5 or 0 which does not effect the second point. If you get out really far, this may translate into calculate 10,000,000 points instead of 10,000,000,000,000 points to get a single digit. Greater savings. ----
No we don't have a trillion seconds to wait for the stupid thing to be converted to decimal but who really cares. Decimal sucks anyways. All the world should do math in Hex. Things would make a lot more sense to large spec of the population. Anyways, the formulat works if a person is willing to calculate every single. The problem with your theory is, you don't have to calculate the entire thing to find the X digit. Just take it several digits out beyond what you are suppose to get until you get so many trailing zeros that it no longer has any chance of rollover. Very Simple. If you want the X decimal is equivalent to the Y in binary, you are only going to have to do a simple Logarithm. ----
Actually, it is not direct harassment. Your e-mail address belongs to you so if a person directly spams them for 2.5 years, it is harassment. Your e-mail address is also public so your allowed to give it away or have other people give it away. It's like your mailing address, if other people know it, they can give it to other people who give it to other people, etc. Give it to spammers. Since you are giving away something that is not private and you are not spamming them yourself, it is not true harassment. Mailing lists are legal to sell and to give away. This would most likely fall under this category. ----
Decimal is boring and it is relatively easy to take the (nth/2^n+ +((n-1)/(2^n-1)) + n-2/2^n-2 +... n-(n-1)/2^n-(n-1). So indirectly you can and once you get to the trillionth decimal point or whatever, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to make it more accurate. ----
Slashdot Mirror
I'm just really bored and have pretty much run out of stuff to say. He started it and I'm bored enough to reply because I stopped giving a shit. Anyways, your point with the Theory of Relativity is well-taken. I still don't agree with it and still think Einstein got too much credit for his work and people are willing to shove Einstein up to God status.
... or something like that. That formula is still not impressive. Most physic formulas are not that complex nor are they impressive so which one are you going to choose.
You can find many people who will refute any given theory, and seemingly quite intelligently. The trick is finding one of these people who isn't a raving paranoid looney. There are plenty of people out there with websites who can give you reams of evidence that everything you know is wrong, but then discredit themselves by claiming the government killed their dog to shut them up, or claiming that satan lives in their microwave. Their are also people who are willing to jump off a tall building because a comet passed near the Earth, doesn't mean the majority is right, it just means it is more accepted.
I didn't know that. I guess all this quantum mechanics stuff is bullshit. I never ditched Quantum Physics. I actually agree with 99% of it. I'm sure most of it is true. Since we can't really see electrons, we can pretty much guarantee that not all of it is going to be true but most likely, most of it will be true.
As for f=ma, it was the first thing that popped into my mind. I could've came up with a better formula like d=do +vt+1/2A*t^2+1^/6dA^3 +1/24dda^4+1/120ddda^5 +
As for the cursing and shit like that, I just do it because I'm bored and having nothing better to do. If I wanted to be professional, I would. Fortunately, this is a publc forum and I can say whatever I want.
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On one hand, you are an idiot.
On the other, you are _not smart_. On the other hand, I am smart and you are dumb. Dumb I say. Anybody else enjoying this more then I am. I get sick of dumb people who call other people dumb because they have nothing better to do and instead of trying to refute someone elses claim, they resort to name calling.
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Can you prove time exists? If not, don't reply to this question.
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Sounds cool but can I see the crater of Luna with it?
I'm trying to prove to the guy in the above post that photons have mass people. Do you even read the previous posts? Also, in theory, a photon might be at rest in relationship to another object.
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Most DOS games were hardware specific. This was sometimes good because you could directly write to the hardware but meant more development time which translated to less game development time. This was less then appealing. DirectX isn't the greatest API but it works. OpenGL is a little better and faster most of the time. Still, when we start going back to hw specific programs, it will limit the market.
Have you ever thought of, I don't know, thinking for yourself. If you don't know how, generally, a fission bomb works, you are just fooling yourself. When it actually comes down to it, we really don't know. We know how fission works. We can split an atom and make two or more smaller ones. Unfortunately, we can't actually "see" what is happening as we split the atom because we can't see electrons or neutrons or protons or actual photons as we split it. So, we have to make educated guesses. Some sound more sci-fi then others that are based on other theories while others try to explain the release the energy using a hierarchial system, in other words, using larger models instead of trying to explain that their is just energy released during the process without reason of how this energy travels or how this energy is stored or stating that energy can be somehow changed to mass and vice versa. If you can't see something and are only making educated guesses, you really don't know. Yes, we explain the fission using the strong and weak force and we know energy is released. This is not the controversy. The controversy is, is their anything special about light and its velocity? Since light is theoretically limited by the EM force, if you eliminate EM, we should be able to go faster then light. And what's with relative velocity? We have a highly sci-fi and highly unproven theory that relative velocity disappears at the speed of light. I think it's highly bullshit that their is any such thing. It wouldn't make sense in an infinite space. Anyways, my point is, we really don't know, we can only theorize and their are more then one theories to try to explain the unknown and myself offering one to you that might have the possibility with some research behind it does not make me a troll.
Just because someone has a difference of an opinion than you does not make them stupid or a troll. I'm actually quite an intelligent person(I don't use the preview button before I press submit and check my mistakes) but I'm still an intelligent person with an opinion and you sir are a Lemming.
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You got me their. I'm used to doing the same thing.
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Because I knew approximately how much it was. .75 millions of dollars is close enough to get the point across. If I really cared about the specifics, I would look it up.
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I didn't bother looking up the exchange because personall I don't really care. Anyways, at the height of the US economy, I know it was down to like 85 cents on the dollar. It still isn't very much money. What will that buy you, 3.75 McDonalds.
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If you are so correct then explain again why photons are attracted to black holes. If photons are virtual particles that have no mass, they shouldn't be attracted to gravity, now should they. Yet, the fundamental concept of a black hole in fact that Black holes have such high levels of gravity(or the theory that Unifies Gravity, EM, strong, weak force, etc.(I can't think of it right now)) that passing photons don't have enough momentum to escape or orbit the ball of mass. Their is too much gravity and it may orbit a few times but each time it gets closer and closer because it is effected by gravity. Explain now that photons have no mass and that photons vs. electrons and the alike are somehow different. Do this to my satisfactory and I may actually take you seriously, supruzr.
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One small thought: Momentum does not equall energy. They are related but they are not the same. Energy = Mass * Velocity ^2(Einstein simply replaced V with C in his famous formula E=MC^2 because it is generally a relative constant.) Momentum = Mass*Velocity. Small Difference. To assume you have momentum, you have to assume you have mass.
Energy is something that can be measured but isn't real as it actually exists. It is the product of several components. Einstein crossed the line and said Energy existed and could be converted to Mass and Mass could be converted to energy as what happened in the big bang. I don't see it. Energy has never been proven to exist without the existence of Mass. So far, you need mass to have energy and energy to have mass. If you set the m=0 in the formula Energy = Mass * Velocity^2, Energy suddenly equals 0. Suddenly, we have a problem. Anyways, my point is: either mass exists or energy exists, not both or it leaves the remote possibility of this formula being wrong. Science has yet to solve this problem conclusively.
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Just because a bunch of people do something stupid, does not make it any less stupid.
I know what the hell 'Priori' means, I'm just ignoring it. It relates more to you then me. Mostly everybody believed the world was flat once but is that the case. NO(I said that about 2 posts ago.) I agree with the Anonymous Poster, you need to have a more of an open mind. Something with as little proof as their is needs to be questioned. I spilled theory on your plate. I never said it was right. I said it had the possibility of being right. I don't agree with Einstein's theory of relativity because it has problems(too many assumed unproven theories.) I've read many Physics books and have taken several physic's classes and understand theory. I just don't agree with it. I'm probably in a better position to argue because I ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND PHYSICS. Their are more then one theory, live with it. Try to prove yours right. I'll believe it when I see it. Like I said earlier, everything we deal with are still theories. Just because millions of people believe something and continues the theory by researching it and building on it, does not make it more right. People will believe what they want to believe.
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You told me to get a clue because I'm shouting out theory against your belief. I told you to get a clue because you are shouting out theory that has no evidence behind it, just one or two people. So be it.
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I understand it better than you do. You are just trying to lop everything into two different categories. Particles that are pure energy and those who are not. Do this if you want to but you are just making a fool of yourself. Why should photons be any different then any other particles, Really. You are mixing predetermined theory with OPTs(other people's thoughts.) Science does not say that someone comes up with a theory without real world research and everybody believes it or does not try to prove it wrong. No, people do real research for and against. Everything we are talking are unproven theories and I think we should leave it at that. Repetition: Particles on a higher level act exactly the same way as particles on a lower level given the same conditions except on a larger scale.
As for my philosophy report, I got a pure A. It was an Arguement against St. Thomas of Aquinas fifth arguement in his five ways of St. Aquinas(the argument against Intelligent Design). It's completely theory with a lot of Umph behind. I'm not the person who came up with the theory or am I the one who keeps the theory going. Their are a lot of facts behind it. None, 100% conclusive but still, they exist. Everything we are talking about is still theory and most of it hasn't been proven. Until I see proof otherwise or actually have evidence for your case, I will be inclined to go against it.
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Your argument about photons being definitely a particle is not really supported by a variety of neat experiments. It is supported by as many experiment as those that do not support it. Pure energy has never been proven to exist so logic says Photons must be in the form of a mass since everything else exists in the form of a mass.
I am not so happy with your claim that energy does not exist... one could argue that mass does not exist, it is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. I could easily argue that too. I don't believe it but I could argue that mass does not exist. Their is also an interesting theory that mass does not exist(and I did a 20 page philosophy report on this(believe it or not)) on the basis that if you look at something like a proton and you zoom in really close, what do you find, a particle divided among many particles. If you look at one of these particles and zoom in farther, what should you theoretically find, a particle that is actually composed of even smaller particles. If you zoom in one of those particles, what should you find, a division among smaller particle. Repeat the cycle. So, in theory, their is almost no mass in a particle. Their are naturally problems with this theory and is based on a hierarchial system of zooming in on something like a galaxy. Anyways, everything we are argueing about are still in theory and none of them have been proven to the satisfaction of the world or becoming a law.
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Mass does not exist in the form of energy. Via. the formula E=mv^2. Mass multiplies by a particles velocity squared. Second of all, you are forgetting about relativity and mediums. Light travels different velocities in different medians in a very thin spectrum of velocities. Light can travel faster in Vacuums than it can in an atmosphere. Relative velocity is another thing. If a particle is going 100 meters south and another is going 100 meters north then their relative velocity is 200 meters n to s. Another thing, light does truely travel in waves. It is MEASURED in waves. It is a frequency people. The time it takes from one particle to hit something until the next one hits the same object. Learn the difference.
On effecting the velocity of an electron. Momentum=MV. The mass of a photon is very tiny. It would take a very high velocity to change the course of one electron or millions upon millions of photons. I agree with you on this point. Anyways, the point is, Energy does not really exist. It is a measurement of velocity and mass. People always seem to forget about relativity when talking about velocities. All masses have relativity, even very small ones and that changes what the value is measured as. We are just so used to having approximately the same relativity because Earth and the stars are traveling relatively compared to the velocity of a light particle.
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It's not just the fact that Microsoft writes "swiss cheese software(although they do)" it is the fact that people hate Microsoft so much that they write software in order to destroy Microsoft. When is the last time you seen a virus that targeted Apache Web server. Fewer people hate Unix or Apache then they do hate Microsoft so more people are likely to target their software and OS. It's like, who is more likely to get assasinated, Adolf Hitler or Theodore Roosevelt? Who do you think has more of a love-hate relationship.
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If they do that(I'm sure eventually if enough people get TIVO's they will), it will hurt the industry more then it will help it I don't want to watch the running back catch the ball on the fifty yard line, do this perfect run to the goalpost, do a little dance, take off his helmet and start talking about how close his shaver/shaving creams get a good shave. I'll turn off the TV. I won't listen to that. Their shall be atleast some seperation of TV and Advertising. I'll watch more pay TV so I won't have to listen to this. No consumer wants it. People buy TIVOs for convenience, not to listen to mid-show commercials. It would certainly make TV initially less popular until more people got used to the concept. Those who have lived without it will naturally always rebel.
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You missed the point. Radiation are photons that have momentum and momentum=M*V. So if photons hit an electron and causing it to slow down, that would be deceleration. Considering the size of an electron compared to that of a photon, electrons are much bigger then photons so photons would need a much greater velocity to slow down an electron significantly.
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I'm right, you just don't understand my post. All you have to do is calculate the digits that effect a decimal point and sum them up to get that point. Via. to get the second decimal, you don't care about what the first binary decimal is because it can only be a .5 or 0 which does not effect the second point. If you get out really far, this may translate into calculate 10,000,000 points instead of 10,000,000,000,000 points to get a single digit. Greater savings.
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No we don't have a trillion seconds to wait for the stupid thing to be converted to decimal but who really cares. Decimal sucks anyways. All the world should do math in Hex. Things would make a lot more sense to large spec of the population. Anyways, the formulat works if a person is willing to calculate every single. The problem with your theory is, you don't have to calculate the entire thing to find the X digit. Just take it several digits out beyond what you are suppose to get until you get so many trailing zeros that it no longer has any chance of rollover. Very Simple. If you want the X decimal is equivalent to the Y in binary, you are only going to have to do a simple Logarithm.
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Actually, it is not direct harassment. Your e-mail address belongs to you so if a person directly spams them for 2.5 years, it is harassment. Your e-mail address is also public so your allowed to give it away or have other people give it away. It's like your mailing address, if other people know it, they can give it to other people who give it to other people, etc. Give it to spammers. Since you are giving away something that is not private and you are not spamming them yourself, it is not true harassment. Mailing lists are legal to sell and to give away. This would most likely fall under this category.
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I went to your website. Wow, we are the exact opposite of each other in our beliefs but we both love slashdot. Hmm. Weird.
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Decimal is boring and it is relatively easy to take the (nth/2^n+ +((n-1)/(2^n-1)) + n-2/2^n-2 + ... n-(n-1)/2^n-(n-1). So indirectly you can and once you get to the trillionth decimal point or whatever, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to make it more accurate.
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