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Personal Video Recorders vs Ads
Kris_J writes "Electronic Media Online have an article about PVRs and their effect on viewing habits. Specifically it says that owners watch more TV, less ads and have less of an idea what channels they're watching. I like the last line; "The [senior advertising] executive said he had never heard of PVRs, and moreover, he wasn't interested in learning more." Good." Having owned a TiVo for about six months now, I can confirm this - my TV watching has gone up, a bit, I watch barely any ads - but I usually have a good idea which channel I'm on. CartoonNetwork has some great network promoting ads.
Didn't you read the last line of his post? Brave New World?
the only problem with no one watching ads is that they pay for our free television. if it ever reaches the point where advertisors feel that they aren't making any money off of these tv stations, they're going to pull their advertising money out fast. you can record all the static you want then and not have to worry about commercials.
So when these things are pretty much in every house with a TV in the world (or part of the TV), how are networks (including cable networks) going to raise revenue if no one is watching commercials.
:-), only 25% of the PVR users are actually skipping the commercials. And many of the users are watching substantially more television. So laziness in using the commercial skip button may actually make total commercial watching go *up*, mind-boggling as that may seem.
According to the article (I know, actually reading it before posting is so passe'
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
I own a ReplayTV box, and its 30-second "QuikSkip" button means that not only do I skip over the commercials, but I don't have to watch them. A TiVo user can only fast-forward through the commercials, so they are still seeing content.
My mom always said, "Jim, you're 1 in a million." Given the current population, there are 7000 of me. God help us all!
Ever wondered why debian has a non-US branch?
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Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
I plan to get a Tivo soon and I'm sure I'll use it lots, I doubt I'll ever record West Wing unless forced to - I want to watch the new episodes live.
I would bet that you will record it. It will start taping at 9:00, and sometime after 9, you will turn on the TiVo and start watching West Wing. You will skip over the ads and finish watching the show at approximately 10:00, completely prepared for the coffee talk the next day. That is the Zen that is TiVo.
-- dave (who now refuses to watch TiVo-less TV)
Right, the same works for operating systems too. As soon as we can get all of the opensource programmers to abandon this silly Linux thing and embracing Windows and improving it, the better off we'll be...
Are you insane?
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I do sometimes back-up to see an advert that I just blasted past (I've got Tivo v2.x, so no 30sec skip). Usually its for a movie that I'm interested in seeing. Sometimes it's just a clever add for something I'd never buy. I think ads will continue to exist. Certainly there will be more product placements, but I think also Advertising companies will get smart about making their ads grab attention even at 30-60x speed.
Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
I got a TiVo two weeks ago, and the statement made in the article is so incredibly true. I don't watch live tv - at all anymore. I come home, turn on the Tivo and I'm greeted by my favorite television shows. I have no idea what network the show got recorded from, nor do I care. I fastforward through all commercials, and yet I watch more Tv than before. The networks must hate me.
"I am boycotting a new theater in town because they show 15 minutes of paid commecials (just like TV) interspersed within the trailers (which I sometimes do want to watch). I refuse to pay $8 to fill a seat, $8 for a light snack, and then still provide the theater with another income stream by being a captive eyeball. "
I haven't been to a theater in ages that doesn't do that..
And here's an idea.. why not go buy your light snack DURING the commercials? No really.. come on. That's a pretty stupid reason to "Boycott". Not only does your local theater manager probably have absolutely no pull over the advertising, I doubt they're going to miss you that much. Just go see the movie you want to enjoy, play arcade games in the lobby for 15 minutes, then show up in your seat after the ads are over.
A big assumption (stemming from the birth of television) is that the audience can't escape what the networks choose to broadcast, so PVRs are ripping that model to shreds.
And enough consumers are resisting attempts by content providers to track their viewing habits, that the only way to survive in a traditional network sense will be to sell all-or-nothing access to your content. Subscriber channels will be the only way to get your message across effectively, and even then, adverts on those channels will be emasculated greatly by easy fast-forwarding.
My personal viewing habits are as follows: if I am watching network or Dish Network TV (I'll NEVER pay for cable!) then when a commercial comes on, the mute button is my first reaction. I LOOK AWAY from the boob tube, or stretch, or read a book, or something else.
There's very little to watch even on Dish; Comedy Channel, History Channel, A&E, and some of the Showtime/HBO channels when I want to see a movie uncut.
I despise sports and home shopping networks. And stations like USA Network, which tend to play the kind of bad B movies I love, has become so unwatchable due to excessive commercial time, that I don't even watch the station any more. Are you reading this, network execs? You have polluted your content with so much bullshit that I don't watch any more, thus completely removing your advertisers from any chance at my attention!
I despise network logos in the corner, I hate when the bastards shrink the screen so they can tell me what's coming up, and I hate being told all the time which channel I'm watching. I REALLY DON'T CARE.
I have a VCR at home, but I don't even use it to record programs anymore, because I can hardly stand to look at VHS-quality video, thanks to DVD.
I haven't spent a dime on Tivo because of their sniffing practices, and monthly charges for listings (which I don't need). My Dish Network box is NOT and NEVER WILL BE plugged in to my home phone. I don't care about the shlock they promote for Pay-Per-View, nor am I willing to pay the prices they want for it. It seems to me all the PPV content is Sports and Wrestling (which are two different things!)... now if there were real gladitorial bloodsports or, or, oh, I don't know. It is hard for me to think up what I'd actually be willing to pay for to see on a one-time basis.
No thanks, I will stick to opportunity viewing, or wait until there is a freebie Linux package that works with a cheap firewire capture widget to easily record and replay my programming.
Film at $0.11.
You mean projects like vcr?
Yes, because some stations either have their clocks set wrong or just don't care that much about start/end times, so they either start the show earlier or end it later than it's scheduled for.
Or do you have problems even with shows that actually do run when the TV listings say they will?
I should've mentioned earlier that the current Tivo software has a workaround for this (the original version didn't): They've added a facility to specify offsets to the start and stop times for scheduled recordings. Unfortunately, this only applies to specific scheduled shows (and season passes); AFAICT, there's no way to set a global offset for a channel that runs everything a minute early or to compensate for drift on shows that the box records on its own initiative.
In general, not knowing what channel you're on is really a step forward - it means you're disregarding network affiliation and just watching whatever you prefer, regardless of what channel it's on. If you've already recorded the broadcast and are watching it later, then the channel only really mattered at the time you recorded it. This is a victory for consumer choice over marketing mindshare.
But in another sense, I think we have to be careful as a society to maintain the diversity of interest that TV provides. I could (or I expect to be able to in a couple years) program my PVR to always find sci-fi for me to watch, so that my TV is essentially one big sci-fi jukebox with no commercials. But without those commercials, I wouldn't see the teasers for the (usually deplorable, I admit) local news, which every once in a while has a story that affects me. I wouldn't see promotions for other non-sci fi shows that I might actually be interested in. I would have effectively turned inward.
I don't like ads much either, but I think as a society we need to think carefully about exactly how people will find out about new things that might expand their horizons, when all of our forms of media are tending towards allowing the user to totally self-select the news and entertainment that they see and hear. Avoiding ads isn't a bad thing necessarily, but now we have the ability to close our minds to new concepts as easily as we close them to obnoxious sales pitches.
I don't have a solution, but I think this is going to be more and more of a problem. Sites like /. might be part of the solution - although you would think this is a fairly narrowly-focused site, in fact I've learned a lot from the opposing viewpoints that different posters have brought up, and in some cases completely reevaluated my beliefs. I've definitely picked up a lot more than if I spent equivalent time reading the newspaper or watching the news. So maybe web logs (I refuse to use "blog") are the answer :)
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Listen closely, moron, and I'll try to type slowly for your benefit:
So, in closing, please take a long walk off of a short plank, skip rope in traffic, pull the wings off of flies, or do whatever else it is that people like you do when they can't be bothered to act like adults.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Do they serve the information to everyone who sends the appropriate http request, or just people who have agreed to the aforementioned TOS? If the former, then it sounds like the data is freely available w/out restrictions.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Now I am going to see Coke or Dr. Pepper (since I am in the south) while yankees will see Pepsi, and the such.
Yankees? You *do* know the war is over, right?
"Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
I'm partial to the Speed Racer vs. Mystery Machine bit. Mystery Machine goes flying over a cliff and explodes. Nice one.
--- witty signature
. . .and while we're at it, go to one OS and one CPU/Architecture. Microsoft, Intel, ATI, and Creative/SoundBlaster will love it. Of course, with no competition, quality will drop (hmm, HOW many Win2K patches in the last few weeks ??), and who needs new features anyway ???
If you think that companies like News Corp and TimeWarner (AOL must be salivating too) would kill for the chance to be a monopolistic provider of news to the country/world's population, think again. The result of such a situation would not be raising of the TV quality bar, but a drastic lowering of it.
Remember, monopoly (or even oligopoly) does not lead to heightened quality, higher standards, or any sort of remotely positive results when diversity is a key concern -- EVER.
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wookin' pa nub in all the wrong pwaces
How can you not know what channel you're watching with those transparent (and sometimes opaque UGH!) station icons in the right lower corner all the time?
It's getting worse, too. The local fox affiliate has started using the top 1/4 of the screen to remind us viewers what we're watching and that we're watching it on fox. So far I haven't seen it more than once or twice in a 30min. time slice, but how short do they think my attention span is? I mean, just because I'm watching "When good pets go bad and write IIS exploits, part 3"...
itachi
I have fantasies about some thing like that. I was going to base it on WinME just to get it working (at least for the 1.0 ver anyway). My plans involve a ATI AIW a big HD and and DVD player. I plan on grabbing the tv 'schedule' from off the net and program it by show instead of VCR style by start stop time, not as nice as TiVO but it would suffice. I currently live in sweden so to my knowledge TiVO is not an option. I will also be able to play (game/mp3/ogg/DVD/c64/DivX)s. The big problem I see in this is interfacing to the video record software of the AIW
a sig with any other name would be as witty
Gotta love corporate logic: pay lots of money to networks to show your ads, but shut down websites that distribute your advertising for free. Go figure...
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
I mostly watch news. Channel 4 for local news and weather (Bob Ryan is excellent) Headline News for national news. Weather channel for national weather. The non-news that I watch is B5 on SciFi, Buffy and Angel on ch 50 )moving to ch 20 this fall), and, umm, that's it. Well, sometimes Discovery, History,TLC, PBS and that ilk.
Best Slashdot Co
I hate to think of banner ads on the CBS evening news (oh wait, those don't work)...
First off, I wouldn't equate banner ads with TV commercials. The former measure their "success" by the number of click-throughs they get, the latter by raised public consciousness of the product (or increased floor traffic or increased sales).
I can imagine some scenario where a part of the screen is used for advertising ala a banner ad. Think of how a ballgame image shrinks to show a scroller on the bottom with the latest scores around the league - why not do the same thing with the commercials?
Possibility #2: Special PVRs that are very cheap (perhaps given away?) that download "commercials" overnight with the TV listings, and force you to sit through minutes of ads before you can watch "Battlebots" or what have you... although I don't see how likely this would be.
Possibility #3: Shows go back to the old days of "Sponsored by...", where the sponsor's billboard is part of the background (heck, this is currently the case in sporting events). Furthermore the sponsor's mention will be part of the show, ie Chairman Kaga states "If I remember correctly, this episode of Iron Chef is brought to you by Chopsalot cutlery, the knives great chefs use."
Believe me, they'll figure out something!
FYI -- Millenium is/was on FX, including the pilot.
A lot of comments here are focusing on how to get the viewer to recognize what station she's watching.
But they don't care if you know what station you're watching if you don't watch the advertisements.
Brand loyalty/recognition for TV is just a method to get you to watch the ads on a specific network as opposed to any other. That's all. If you watch NBC exclusively but don't watch their ads, that's just as bad to them as if you didn't know what channel you were watching.
Luckily, for now there's no way for them to know if we're watching an ad or not, so the Ad Companies are still paying for every viewer of a show.
I'm already paying them, I shouldn't have to watch ads as well
You aren't paying them the full price of production, let alone allowing them to make a profit. No magazine on the newstand would survive if they either charged full cost (noone would buy it) or didn't include pages of advertising (they wouldn't make any money) - the same is true of tv.
Rob.
Granted, occasionally you see exceptions. I suspect the publishers think of them as loss-leaders, or in the case of the strange world of comics, as a reward to loyal readers.
Rob.
Hey, it's not only the moderator's but also some of the replies.
Say no to software patents.
this is going to further the convergence of TV and computers, in that your TV is going to look like the Windows Desktop, with a list of icons at the bottom of the screen.
I was wondering if the stations put out some special carrier signal that said "program starts now" that the TiVo could recognize, but it sounds to me like it's similar to a cron job.
Thanks for the information.
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That's just the way it is
What's wrong with not knowing what channel you're watching? Does it really matter that it's on NBC, or CBS, or BBC? If it's a good television show, they're going to watch it.
This is the main thing that the networks (and other "content providers") need to realize. People aren't 'loyal [network du jour] viewers' but will go where they perceive the best value is. At least, some will. Channel surfing doesn't happen just because it's possible, but because the channel that was being viewed ceased to be desirable. This could be from a lousy program, or an annoying commercial.
Good programs won't get skipped/surfed by.. and clever, non-annoying commercials actually get watched. Annoying may get a veiwer's attention, but it also get the viewer's hand on the remote. One person I know has suggested that those who make and approve a commercial be required to view it every 10-15 minutes during their workday for two weeks before it can air. Then if they scream for it to stop, it shouldn't air. I doubt this will ever happen, but the idea is appealing.
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
With the 30-second skip button on my ReplayTV I can quickly parse through the ads, but I will back up and watch one that looks decent. I see PVRs as a challenge to companies and ad agencies to raise the signal to noise ratio a bit.
Interspersed? As I said, I like the trailers. I do want to watch them. Most theaters show ads/slideshows while people are filing in, then show trailers then the feature presentation.
This theater is showing ad/trailer/ad/trailer/ad etc so basically you have to watch the all or watch none.
And I don't know what kind of theater you go to, but every theater I've been to people who decide to wait out in the lobby for 15 minutes end up sitting in the far right front corner. I come early to get good seats and I'm upset because I don't like where this trend is going.
I'll bet dollars that the next step is for theaters to bring back "Intermission" between "reels" so that people can be pushed out to the snack bars and forced to watch more ads. And that really will be the final nail in the coffin for the local cineplex.
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
Wrestling nothing- variable speed FF is made to order for porn!
Actually, considering the feature set- instant replay, backwards play, slow motion, freeze frame, it is clear that the primary purpose of the TiVo is for watching pornography.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
A little off -- the new beta *reportedly* has the backdoor included again to turn-on 30 second skip. It will not be on my default, and someone who wants it will have to enable it, and lose the Skip-To-End button (since that is what button it uses)
They are more predominantly sold in the South...I think the last numbers I saw were: Market Share: 40% Coca Cola 35% Dr. Peper 20% Pepsi Co. 05% Other... Not that they are "More Southern..." just more popular.
------ This has been provided as a public service! ------
I would be very happy to have this done for me. Why would I care if people wanted to know what I watched...ok, they'd know I like CNN, Home and Garden TV, Food Network, News 8 Austin, Will & Grace, and The Practice...Then I can get ads which are directed at ME and not ones I don't care about.
/. is always up in arms about some kind of privacy...Bill is out to kill us all and take our first, second, AND third born...but hey, I kinda like the idea of not having to see Milk-of-Magnesia, Heart Burn, and Birth Control commericals ALL the time!
I know that
------ This has been provided as a public service! ------
I agree. Advertisers are too focused on "How Many People See My Ad" vs "How Many People REMEMBER My Ad Ant Want To PURCHASE My product." This is what advertisers need to realize. We have moved into a digital medium where consumers are no longer content to just sit there and smile. We are demanding more from companies. It takes more to sell to the younger generation than it does to the older generation. If companies would spend 25% less on running ads and 25% more on making them, they would be more memerable and less annoying. Mastercard made a whole bunch of the "Priceless" commericials...those went over REAL well...as did Got Milk. Others need to follow in these companies footsteps and make MEMERABLE ads, not cheap ones!
------ This has been provided as a public service! ------
You can also use a PVR as a peripheral. I have been doing this for 8 months and it's great, all the advantages of seperate components plus all the advantages of an integrated system. See
Linux based PVR with ReplayTV and Controling A/V stacks from LinuxThey probably think we need to know what channel we are on just like whenever a band does a live spot on a radio station they have to introduce them as "Atlantic recording artist..." or "Warner Brothers recording artist..." because we all know that record stores are divided up into labels aren't they? "Please show me to your Atlantic section. I only buy Atlantic records." I'm sure that the same logic applies to television executives. Because its all about branding, remember!
But how can we be less aware of the channel we watch? They all have those damn things in teh corner with their logos so it's imposible NOT to know (unless you are blind I suppose...)
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
What about ad-free issues of comics? occasionally an issue will be like that, and while they cost more, they do it, and somehow, they make money on it. Otherwise, why would they not have ads? Artistic integrity only has power when it doesn't fight the bottom line.
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Ceci n'est pas une sig.
Oh wait, I see it coming. Soon the idea of web pop-up ads will catch on with TV ads and I will begun seeing TVs pop'ing-up all over my living room with X10 ads.
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Sig
abbr.
Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private
It does take some practice, but with TiVo's jump-back feature, you can usually get the timing down to get back to the show perfectly on time.
Actually, my problem with the max FF (is it really 60x?) is that my hand-eye coordination is too fast for it. The auto-correct feature of the TiVo fast forward is supposed to jump you back to the start of what you want to watch based on when you see it and press play. The auto-correct on max FF goes back almost 30 seconds too far for me. I use the middle setting (15x, I think). At that speed, the commercials are something like 2 seconds each and the auto-correct works perfect for me.
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Expect more shows sponsored by particular advertisers, much like they were in the '50s. Also, I recently heard that there are deals in the works, such as with the show "Law and Order", to digitally add product placement advertising to syndicated broadcasts. The same will probably happen with movies too.
If I see bottles of Coca~Cola all over Casablanca, I'm going to puke...
I thought "southern" was an R.C. Cola and a Moon Pie.
I read something about that, but i thought it was a hoax. There was an April fools joke in an electronic magazine about this years ago, but i`m sure this was not the only mention i`ve heard about it being not true. It sounds plausible though!
Then again, i`m sure some channels still use the little flashing box in the corner of the screen to alert networks that ads are approaching, so maybe its just done via a more advanced version of that system (maybe broadcast seperately from the tv signal).
Regards ads on subscription channels - i think thats just the same as adverts in magazines and newspapers. They could fix it so theres no ads, but you`d probably be paying a lot more for the channels.
I believe that for tabloid papers, the ratio between revenue received from cover price and ad revenue was something like 70:30, where for the broadsheets it was the other way around. God knows what the equivalent figures are for subscription channels!
Amusing that the other replies missed the Huxley reference....
In europe most channels have annoying logos in the corner of the screen so you know what you`re watching (like I care!). I use videoplus on my regular VCR, so i rarely remember which channel a film/show is on (unless there are ads, which i obviously skip through).
Oh, hope you dont mind me borrowing your spacecraft for f-zero advance!
Speedvision is AWSOME
it's on the fast five thing on my Sony trin
Animal Planet
Speedvision
HGTV
Food
CartoonChannel
Milalwi
At the Western Cable Show last year, several manufacturers were showing pvr motherboards with scsi controllers. (The show is a trade show for the cable/satellite industry, featuring channels, services, and hard/soft ware)
If you like those hackable ide systems, wait for the scsi motherboards. 15 18 or 36 gig drives (drool). Or the 3.4 TB 4 rack unit shelf now available. Store all of B5, Dr Who, etc with lots of room for more.
I don't know what the market will do with the scsi boards - the real value add for tivo/replay is the EPG (electronic program guide) that gets you to keep paying for its service. Is there a bored experimenter out there to make a large external tivo like storage array out there?
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Shakespeare, Henry VI, Part 2, Act 4, Scene 2
As a Tivo owner who switched from DirectTV to cable (ok, it's time warner,) I have yet to learn any station's number beyond the SciFi channel (60). I tell my TIVO to fetch and I don't care what station it comes from.
I use my TIVO mostly to catch all the shows I would have missed, such as the early AM broadcasts of DS9 or Doctor WHO. I don't primary use my TIVO to skip commercials. I do skip them, but before I had the TIVO, I watched less shows and used the mute button heavy during commercials. Why anyone listens through every commercial is beyond me...
So the report is right, but I think the media needs to get a ripe on the fact that we are watching more TV with our PVRs and start marketing that way!
So there it is....Come on corporate America just try and remove my mute button!!!
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
What I don't get here is this: corporations pay for the advertising. Nielsen ratings determine the price paid for the advertising. Whether commercials are skipped or not is irrelevant. The company doing the advertising is the company that pays, not the person that watches the commercial. It seems to me that the network/affiliate is getting paid whether the commercials are seen or not.
Maybe the PVR users should start charging the advertisers/broadcasters for taking up their precious disk space with worthless commercials?
Just as long as they don't pull a Howard Beal(guy from Network, believe that was his name) to pull in ratings I'm fine.
Of course they probably care even more about the fact that viewers won't be watching adverts, for obvious reasons.
If they're smart, they would continue broadcasting ads as they have and charge advertisers more due to "the increase consumer demand for network television". From that last sentence in the article, I would say that advertisers are showing their usual level of intelligence.
I think the 'one channel reporting the news' concept is a little dangerous- you think a single news channel would really be more consise, clear, and unbiased? Imagine if you could only go to CNN for all forms of news; no slashdot, BBC, etc.
Indeed, a single news source will result in more biased news, with lower quality reporting.
I whole-heartedly agree. Commercials these days suck. They insult my intelligence, or are just plain irrelevant. I have no need for diapers, feminine hygeine products, or Miss frigging Cleo, and a ton of other products. Why should they care if I watch their commerical? It's not like I need those products. Now, if they were advertising golf clubs, and I wanted to choose between two manufacturers, that's where it matters what I view. And then, there are the exceptions to the rule. That commercials that are just plain entertaing. The (early) Bud frog and lizard commercials, Sportscenter, and Pemican beef jerky. The ones I watch just because they're damn funny.
BigCat79
BigCat79
"The dead have risen and are voting Republican!" --Bart Simpson
Hopefully this will have the effect of making Networks realize how annoying their placement of commercials can be. Perhaps now we'll stop getting those commercials right at the best part of a movie.
Actually, I've gained this annoying habit of skipping the last bit of posts in anticipation of a mindless .sig. Oh well.
And hey! What was wrong with the Nintendo wars? I prefer to be shielded from the horror of war.
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Just out of curiosity, what does this mean? Are Coke and Dr. Pepper supposed to be more 'southern'?
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
I have not watched a program real time since 1979 when I bought my first vcr. the only ads I have watched since then are m&m ads (I like them). this is not a new issue, and will probably never have a significant effect on advertising. remember, many people watch the superbowl just to see the ads.
Ehm, I'm at work right now, so I prefer not to check out too much sites...but try AdCritic . They have a search-facility but unfortunately it is quite American-Based (I don't know what CN is, so I guess it is American), so most of my fav ads are not there.
All movies in Quicktime.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I have digital cable, say about 100 channels. Sure, I don't care for some of them (Speedvision? WTN? Telelatino?), but that still leaves a good chunk.
What do I do when ads come on? I zap 'em. Change channels. There's bound to be something watchable (for at least two minutes) on some other channel.
And I'm damn good at it. Depending on the channel I'm watching, I "know" how long the commercial break will last, and I rarely miss more than 5 seconds of the show (or see more than 5 seconds of ads).
Only downside: my girlfriend hates it when I do that.
Ich werde nie wieder denken
First of all, I am marrying a woman, not a man, and it is not appropriate for you to make assumptions such as this.
Second, my point was that we only view quality advertisements that catch our attention. We use the click tracking mechanism, to show which ads we like and which we don't. We don't simply ignore all advertising.
You're the one who needs to get a fscking clue. Troll.
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
There's been a UK TiVo available for quite a while now. One big reason it doesn't exit in other countries is lack of a centralized source or program data.
http://james.nontrivial.org/projvdr.htm
http://james.nontrivial.org
I think that if/when PVRs go mainstream you'll see commercials specifically targeted to catch your eye at 20x.
I've had a Tivo for about a year now. I fast forward through the commercials just as much as the next PVR owner, but occasionally, my roommates and I find ourselves going back to watch a commercial that caught our eye while we where skipping over it. I don't think commercials are threatened. Eye catching ads like the ones seen on AdCritic will still live on and continue to make you crave BigMacs.
The problem is, no matter what _WE_ want, the fact of the matter is that the content owners don't necessarily like it. TiVo was pressured into not providing a 30-second skip function and only fast-forward/reverse. They considered it a necessary evil to get funding they needed. Both DirecTV and Echostar are finding out that content providers are unhappy with consumers being able to record direct digital feeds - and are putting in controls to prevent recording of some movies or timed automatic deletion of the movies. TiVo is floundering despite its success, and is becoming targeted more and more for extermination by advertisers and networks (the same networks that funded their startup!).
And take a look at HDTV. The hardware manufacturers, cable companies, and content providers have finally agreed on an interconnection standard - one that will provide uncompressed full digital audio/video between set-top boxes and displays. Of course, it has multiple layers of encryption (duh) and it has the capability to disallow ANY form of digital recording, to allow for time-limited recording, disallow fast-forwarding through certain content, etc.
We could see this coming with DVDs, with the regional encoding, the forced previews, and so forth. The fact of the matter is that the advertisers and content providers don't see digital medium as a freedom for us, the consumers. They see it as the ability to lock us in to forced advertising, better copy protections, and ultimately pay-for-anything viewings.
Oh, and while you may say "hah, it's digital! It's just bits! I can do whatever I want with those bits!", realize that:
And, no matter what you may wish, the fact is that TV is not a free ride. The shows cost money to make. It costs money to broadcast. This money has to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is advertising. Advertisers won't pay unless they think their ads are being watched, and so both the advertisers and the content providers are going to do their damnedest to make sure you see the advertising so you'll buy the product.
The other option, of course, is all-pay channels, or pay-per-view on all shows. That's what you want, right?
Not me. I'm getting up and walking out if I have to pay to see an advertisement. I buy a ticket to see a movie. If they aren't making enough money off a $7 ticket, they obviously need to find a consumer with more disposable cash. I can always find something more entertaining to do.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
That isn't my problem. If I pay to watch TV (which, with cable being so prevalent and broadcasters putting out such a shitty signal, you do anyway), I expect a level of quality. If I am not paying, I realize that what I get is free and is worth exactly what I paid for it. I will not mourn the passing of commercial television. It's 99.999% crap and has no redeeming qualities.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
I'm fairly certain that they will find a way to stick their products into our faces. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find TiVO or future equivalents selling time on your box. This new effort will be a marriage with the "targeted demographic" technology discussed in this forum recently, and will be billed as a "special service", because consumers "like to hear about products that interest them."
By the way, anyone else out there starting to see commercials, I mean real commercials, before movies in theaters? At my megaplex, they have the nerve to call it "pre-feature entertainment." I want to start a campaign of booing during these commercials, to show how disgusted we are. Maybe if this "pre-feature entertainment" became a traditional subject of derision and ridicule, the advertisors would stop spending money there.
I'm fed up. End of rant.
Evil is the money of root.
Not that it changes the thrust of the article, but I'm pretty sure the "boneheaded exec" was probably just declining to participate in an unsolicited phone call. How many times has someone you don't know called you up and said "But don't you want to learn more about...?"
Evil is the money of root.
[off-topic]
'One organisation reporting all the news'... like the Russian News Agency TAS during the cold war?That way we only know what they want us to know!
Then again, the only difference between the Iron Curtain Communists and the Americans is that the Americans *think* they are free... it's a powerful illusion.
TiVo does not have a financial interest in you watching the ads so, while they have the information about the commercials that you skipped, they are unlikely to share it with advertisers. They might tell them what shows you watch, when, etc., but I doubt that they will be bragging to the advertisers that TiVo watchers skip all of the commercials.
My fiance and I deliberately fast forward through all commercials, even taking that extra couple of seconds to find the beginning of the show. The reason is that we want advertisers to realize just how ineffective their advertising has become.
That's because you and your future husband are mind-numbingly stupid. What would happen if advertisers decided that TV ads were not effective and stopped paying for them? Who do you think would pay the costs of keeping the networks profitable? The viewers would be stuck paying the networks all of the money that the advertisers now pay. Take a look at what HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, and other premium channels cost. Do you want to pay that much per channel per month? Get a clue!
I spent a few hours hacking at something like this. It isn't terribly hard to do these days. You need:
600 MHZ celeron or better
video capture card
VCR from http://www.stack.nl/~brama/vcr/
That is enough to record arbitrary programming. You will need an interface to tvguide.com, which should take two to four hours for a good perler. Then you need to write a scheduler script to manage the vcr program, based on the data from tvguide.com. You could use cron, or at, but would have to keep from having consecutive programs step on each other's toes.
And from there, it won't be a long step at all till we have subliminal audio tracks to make sure we know what channel we are watching.
But as the networks become progresively less important we may begin to see true subscription based programming. How much are you personally willing to pay for new episode of Seinfeld? How much for a full new season? If Jerry is not your cup of tea, maybe David Hasselhoff's newest venture "Baywatch: Scores" - a touching drama (with lots of slo-mo) about the adventures of a group of exotic dancers who daylight as lifeguards?
You either believe in rational thought or you don't
At least on TiVo, it is impossible to skip over the commercials. Even on maximum fast forward, which is mighty tricky to stop with precision, you get the gist of the commercials and the advertisers still get brand recognition.
... Instead of starting the program at 8:30:00, start it at 8:30:05 and preceed it with 5 seconds of "You're watching ____."
Well, not really. When you are FF'ding at 60x, you are going at a minute a second. Think about it, that's a 30-second commercial going by every half-second. It is pretty hard to get the gist of what is being sold in that amount of time. It does take some practice, but with TiVo's jump-back feature, you can usually get the timing down to get back to the show perfectly on time. I hate commercials. Now that I have TiVo, I usually start watching live programming about 15-minutes late. That way, I can still watch it basically in the same time frame as the non-TiVo people. You would be absolutely amazed how much of your life is wasted looking at ads.
and many place little visual "bugs" in the corner of the programming itself. (TNT is particularly annoying in this regard.)
Absolutely. Every ad-based network has these little icons. Also, many times when TiVo records something, the network's icon appears next to the show in the Now Playing list.
Many of the described problems can be addressed through simple changes if the networks care.
Not a bad idea. One of the most annoying things networks do now for a PVR user is start their shows about 15-30 seconds before they are actually scheduled. TiVo 2.0.1 has a workaround for this, but it is impossible to anticipate what the networks will do. Plus, it extends the show ahead by one minute, potentially conflicting with a show scheduled to be recorded in the timeslot directly preceding. If the networks would start their shows on time, and stop bunching things around the primetime slots, (thus allow for fewer conflicts) I would very happily deal with 5 seconds of branding at the beginning of a show.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
is that my hand-eye coordination is too fast for it.
Same problem. Guess I've been playing video games too long, but I was hitting it as soon as the show came back on, and was getting pushed back a quite a bit. I've just gotten better at waiting a second or so before hitting play.
"The guide is definitive, reality is frequently inaccurate."
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Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Went to see Jurassic Park III the other day (yeah, it was a waste of time, but it was a free ticket... ;) ). Before the movie started, we were subjected to FOUR extra-long commercials and at least seven trailers. The posted movie start time was 3:05PM, but the opening credits didn't roll until after 3:30. People paid $7 a pop to sit there and watch a half hour of commercials before an 80-minute movie. Ridiculous... I don't mind a trailer or two before the movie starts, since it's often interesting to see what new movies are coming out soon, but I'm really getting sick of the commercials, and seven trailers is way, way too many. And they cannot use the excuse that cable TV has, that the advertising subsidizes much of the cost and gives us cable for ~$50/mo instead of several hundred dollers. Movie tickets prices have gone nowhere but up in the last twenty years, and it's not that much more expensive to show a movie now than it was in 1980.
;)
I like the idea of booing all of the ads, but unfortunatly, it won't do any good...who's going to know? Nobody from the companies running the ads is going to be anywhere near your local theater, and if you're lucky enough to get a glimpse of an actual theater employee during the show, it's gonna be the 15-year-old kid who's being paid $5.15/hr to pick up trash and make sure the patrons aren't having sex or knifing each other to death in the back rows. You could call those handy-dandy 800 numbers for "Questions and comments," I guess, but it's not hard to figure out what their reasoning will be... "Wow, if we stop running the ads for BigMegaCorp's multimillion-dollar ad campaign in our theaters, we might make this small handful of people happy enough to shell out a whole $7 to watch a movie along with the rest of the $7 sheep who don't give a damn that they have to watch five minutes of ads for every ten minutes of movie..." Hmm, wonder what their response would be?
DennyK
yeah, quality television. It's called infomercials.
Do you have proof if this?
or is this more second hand knowledge?
-People are strange when you're a stranger
Every station will need to do Telethons on a weekly basis.. DOWN WITH TIVO!!! -Are you laughing at me or with me?
I wonder how can I watch Clio Awards? Or Cannes Golden Lion...
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I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
Agreed. Whether the consumer knows what channel they are watching doesn't matter at all (IMHO). But what might be of more significance is the fact that many of the consumers are skipping the commercials. Since that is a substantial portion of what pays for the television programming, it could ultimately lead to consumers bearing a larger part of the financial responsibility. (IE, higher cable/sat bills).
GreyPoopon
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GreyPoopon
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Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
I find this a rather oppertunistic approach. As long as the majority stays keeps watching the ads, (presumably for lack of equipment to screen them) the minority doesn't have to. It's kinda like the enviromental approach. If everybody cuts down emissions (Or uses less fuel/electricity whatever) by X% we won't have to.
Sounds to me like two sheets of black paper and a roll of tape would solve your problem nicely.
Hmmm, amount of ads viewed goes down. Revenue from advertisement goes down. Consumer cost for receiving programming goes up. Only stations that provide good content will be subscribed to. (IE good shows, few ads.) Hmmmm, if we just move it all to digital we can watch what we want when we want it. And maybe... hmmm, micropayments? I can just see this happen, End of TV as we know it predicted!
Every network sticks a logo or a watermark image in the corner of the screen.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
But I am still stuck watching some portion of the Ad as every Xth frame is displayed.
All advertisers need to do is shoot/edit commercials with this in mind. Keep certain images on screen for some duration after one another, such that at higher speed scan, the sequence produces and ad of its own.
Rather like those _Mad Magazine_ fold-ins that show one image, but once folded produce another. In this case, the ad will be "time-folded" to produce a mini-ad.
I realize that there are some problems with doing this (ensuring a common start point, etc.) but a little bit of creativity and it can be done...
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Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
Odd. I had the same idea. (#225)
Wanna open an Ad Agency with me to do this very thing? We could rake it in. Too bad we missed all of the dot com investment capital that was being given away like so much Halloween candy...
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Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
And they will only get better, tnanks to Moore's Law or whatever is replacing it: the capacity will grow along with the speed.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
I wonder if this might be an improvement for both sides: the viewer doesn't get the interruptions to skip over, and the advertiser has ads that are harder to get rid of.
There are problems of course. If you are a viewer who does not like advertising at all in any form, it is harder to get rid of.
What am I missing? Why isn't this done?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Of particular interest to the advertising industry is the finding that the same percentage of viewers skip through television commercials with PVRs as fast-forward through them with VCRs. According to Mr. Wallace, that figure is around 25 percent in both cases.
Just about a quarter? That surprises me...you'd think that FF'ing through the commercials is something more consumers would rather do. What, do they enjoy watching car ad after car ad after car ad?
"All mankind is at the mercy of a handful of neurotics". - Norman Douglas
See here for an in-depth explanation.
-all dead homiez
As a TiVo owner, I honestly have no idea what channel I am watching, ie, 2, 3, 32, etc. I could change cable companies and not even know it. However, I generally have a good idea what Network I am watching, FOX, UPN, Discovery, etc. There is a big difference between the two. In the days of TV and VCRs, you needed to know the channel, with a PVR, you do not.
Tivo > All.
But, Microsoft employees are making an OS for a living... and they are not as fun to hang out with.
I don't know why people skip commercials... I often think they're funnier than the actual show I'm watching (mostly because there's never a show I like on when I'm watching).
I think commercials these days have come a long way... advertisers are working more than ever to come up with funny, off-beat, or just plain weird commercials.
This makes me think of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency, where VCRs are described as machines that watch TV for you, so you don't have to. Sounds like there is some truth in this.
No, the best one is the supervillains' meeting.
"Look, I just want some pants! A decent pair of pants!"
I'm one of the many TiVo owners who tends to fastforward through ads (we used to have a phrase "quick, fast forward before we have to pay for TV") - and there's a simple reason why. Ads are crap.
I went to see Tomb Raider (don't laugh) at the cinema, and with the exception of one awful haircare related advert, I actually didn't mind sitting through them. They were generally funny. And this is what ads need to be.
If they want people to watch adverts, then they're going to have to make them worth people's while. They need to be short, memorable and funny, and, most of all, not frequently repeated! I'll stop fastforwarding even now if I see an advert that catches my eye - but, given the adverts on British TV, this is very rare. The adverts on American TV are too frequent, but less irritating (but then I was only over there recently for a week, times change)
You still need a PVR to watch West Wing - apologies to any ad executives reading this, but we start watching fifteen minutes after it begins live so we can fast forward through the ads.
The problem isn't if the channel is inconsistent, but if something follows (or runs before) the show you pad "just in case". I can't pad Sex and the City and still get the first showing (it will conflict with The Practice, and I don't want to miss the first minute or two of that).
Of corse it bugs me even more that it happens on HBO, after all that is one of the few channels I pay enough to that I'm not expected to support it by watching commercials, and they can't get the times in their schedules right!
I did find it surprising that folks watch 25% of the commercials. If the first commercial in a group is for a movie, or looks interesting I'll watch it, and sometimes same for the next, but the first irritating commercial, I skip the whole block (once in a great while I'll watch something out of the block). Or I'll skip the whole block if I'm really into the show (as opposed to having it on, and coding something on the laptop). I thought I would watch more then the average number of commercials, and I know I don't watch 20% of them...
Yes, but I do at least understand why. The theater chains (not the movie makers or distributors) are pretty much all bankrupt, close to bankrupt, or recently re-emerged from bankruptcy. They aren't making money on tickets, that just recoups the cost to rent the film. They don't even get the whole take on popcorn and overpriced soda, the film distributors are demanding a large percentage of that as well (plus I almost never buy the crap).
The commercials at the front of the movie (and the slideshows) are pretty much the only thing the theater owners get to keep!
It is still one of the big reasons I just watch most movies at home now (plus I finally have a nice sound system). Oh, and with the TiVo I'm not even watching as many movies. It's interesting how it has gone from I have 150 channels, and nothing is on half the time, to "Wow, I always have 60 hours of stuff to watch...",
It isn't unfair to ad-buyers, since they know what they are paying for. It is inefficient though.
The part I dislike is since the advertisers actually pay for the shows, they have more influence over them then the people that watch them. That's scary with TV news. Frustrating with TV dramas (why can't they say "fuck"? for cable channels it's the advertisers...)
Which will make it a whole lot less useful then the TiVo which once told "I like this show the most, and this one more then that one, and first runs of this one more then that one, and..." will just "do the right thing". Or at least pretty close. And it is surprisingly easy to set up. It handles schedule changes, and will frequently pick up things I didn't know were on.
That's not to say it is perfect. It would be nice if it could remember things I had seen for longer then 28 days, or if when the satalite box fails to change channels if I could tell it is hadn't recorded a show it thought it had (or better yet for it to OCR the channel number off the upper right of the screen and retry -- that is the first thing I would try to add...). Also the priority info is only used for local choices (X and Y are on now (and haven't been recorded recently, and...), X is more important, so I'll record X...not X and Y are on now, X is on again later Y isn't, so I should grab Y now and X later...)
A recorder without schedule info won't be worthless, but it just plain ain't as good.
That one is easy. The same box that records stuff and makes it trivial to FF over commercials also reports back channel and time usage (unless you opt-out, which is both possible and free with TiVo, not sure about the others).
Enlighten us (or at least me)...
Got you covered, check this out:
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~epa98/work/apps/xmltv/
Next problem?
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Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
That's been going on at least since the late '80s. In some cases the spots showed up in theaters before they ran on-air.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Pepsi-Cola originated in New Bern, North Carolina and Mountain Dew somewhere in western NC about a half century or so later so I feel safe in saying that they're just as southern as Coca-Cola.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Anybody have any evidence that Cheerwine and Sundrop didn't originate in the piedmont of NC?
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
No. I'm pretty sure that if you poll everyone with a PVR, you will find out that the vast majority do not watch ANY ads. I surely don't wait at a commercial break and see if the ad is funny. And since TiVo only has FF, and no "30-second skip," there's no way in hell I'm stopping for any along the way. I hit FF, wait a second or so after I see the show come back, and hit play. No commercials at all.
Maybe that's just you. On my TiVo, I use 3xFF to scan through commercials at 60x and try to start back into the program as closely as possible also. However, if a commercial catches my attention, I will rewind and watch it. In fact, I do this regularly. I still skip about 95% of all commercials, but I often do watch the good ones. I'd rather not have a 30-second skip button -- not all commercials are 30 seconds, and it makes it too easy to miss the good commercials.
Even the ones I ignore probably make an impression, since I'm watching the screen closely for the program to start again. If the advertiser can get their message across while scanning at high speed, good for them. I just don't want to spend the time being a captive audience. If I had forced commercials from HDTV, I'd pick up a book. Viewers will ignore commercials that don't interest them, no matter what interlocks they design into the system.
Advertisers need to learn that the solution is not to try harder and harder to force viewers to see their ads, but to make their ads interesting and entertaining enough that they want to see them. People will sit down any watch "The best commercials you've never seen (and some you have)" because those commercials are good. People who hate football record the Super Bowl just to see the commercials. People will watch good commercials, but they'll ignore bad ones, no matter how much you try to force them to watch...
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
I'm not shedding too many tears for cable networks - I'm already paying them, I shouldn't have to watch ads as well.
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
I have already seen banner ads on "Hardball with Chris Matthews". The program suddenly shrinks to a window about 3/4 size in the upper right, and the bottom and left portion of the screen fills with some ad thingie for a few seconds, and then the screen returns to normal.
Also, many TV stations used to have a little logo (fairly unobstrusive) in the lower right corner of the screen in order to remind people what channel they're watching, but I have seen these things get more obtrusive. They sometimes include animations that invade other parts of the screen, and they are always (so far?) ads for other shows on the same channel. It probably won't be much longer before these are used to advertise tampons or Coke or whatever.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I disagree about that being ideal. I think it's a decent short-term solution, but it's still an unfair approach.
IMHO, the real solution is to get rid of ad-funded content altogether. Ad-funded content is a subtlely-dishonest way to get around the TANSTAAFL principle. Remember that if advertisements pay for the content, then the people who buy the advertised product end up paying for the advertisements, so it's not like anything is really "free" -- it's just that there are levels of indirection, and the people who pay are not necessarily the people who receive. That is unfair (because content-funders and content-enjoyers are not always the same), and also inefficient (because of the indirection and middlemen).
The fairest approach is for there to be a direct correlation between whose who receive and those who pay, where everyone pays for what they get, and nobody pays for stuff they don't get. The only way to achieve this ideal is for content to be somehow paid for by those who enjoy it, and for there not to be other revenue streams (e.g. ads) polluting this relationship.
I'm not sure this is attainable, though, since people are quite happy to deceive themselves by watching TV that they think is "free" and then buying overpriced products that just "happen" to be heavily advertised (e.g. Coke).
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Didn't it piss you off that you had to sit through advertising before seeing a movie that you paid to get into. They already got their money for you being there, and they're selling your time! I haven't been to a movie in 2 years since they started doing this. If they're going to make money off of me then the shouldn't charge so much for me to get in. And the money I saved has bought me a huge TV and the movies on DVD sans adverts. The huge TV and the surround sound still isn't quite as good as going to see the movie in the theater though. I just can't bring myself to go. Damn, that just pisses me off!
I also own a TiVo, and I agree. It is unfortunate though. I used to spend over $700 a year going to see movies in the theater, and now it just doesn't seem worthwhile. There was always something that was just better about going to see a movie on the big screen, but now the whole experience seems less attractive. Oh well.
DirecTV can afford the bandwidth to digitally mark a section of time as "no fast forward." Defeat it, and they will have you prosecuted under the DMCA.
I can hardly see the TV networks marking their adverts digitally; otherwise easily-hacked digital devices could recognise them with no effort at all-- DMCA or not, making ads stand out from normal broadcasts would be enough of an incentive for somebody to invent technology to filter them with 100% effectiveness.
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Matthew
Matthew @ Bytemark Hosting
Just curious. I've been hearing about Tivo on virtually every media outlet and have yet to see one or a clone being shipped overseas. When can we get a device which can handle 220V, PAL AND record multiple channels? I'd dump by VCR in a second for one of these.
Don't forget how many new shows are launched on, say, NBC in-between Friends and Frasier or on Fox in-between The Simpsons and X-Files. At that point it's hard to tell whether the new shows get rated simply because they're between two other shows that people already watch in droves, or there's no other 1/2 hour shows to fill in the gap.
Incidentally, did anyone else besides me jump up and yell "Bullshit!" when they first heard of the so-called 500 channel universe that we were supposed to be in by now? All I could think was that it's hard enough filling 25 channels with worthwhile material.
PS: Daily Show rules!
Pope
What? Bear is driving car? How can that be?!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
I've been thinking about this since I got my Tivo, and I've come to the conclution that my PVR usage falls into three main uses:
1. Watching shows that I couldn't watch 'cause they're on while I'm working/sleeping. No big loss to the Ad world here. If I didn't have a Tivo anywawy, I wouldn't be watching the show, so now I'm watching the show, but skipping the ads.
2. Watching shows that I missed 'cause I have doing something else. Okay, here they might have a point. If I didn't have a Tivo, I might have stop to watch this show (with commercials), but instead I'm watching it on the Tivo and zapping though the ads. However, more likely I'd still be down the pub, and I'd just miss the show (and ads).
3. (And this is the important one) Watching shows as they're boardcast. If there's something on that I want to watch, I'm going to watch it second for second as it's broadcast. Commercials and all. Anything that's worth watching, that doesn't fall into the two above catagories, I want to watch NOW, not in half an hour. Okay, I might miss the first 5 minutes, rewind, skip one commercial, and catch up. Still, I'm getting my full dose of ads. Plus I can pause it when the phone rings.
Anything good on during Prime Time is always going to have ad money behind it. Not a Big Deal.
Open source means never having to say thank you.
Is there a way to set up a PVR to only record the TvLand Retromercials?
...or at least, a recent survey that was strikingly similar to this if it wasn't the same one [an advertiser at AVS Forum], it was an online survey with checkboxes. (And they were a little confusing at times.) A rate of anything around 10% or below should be ignored.
PVRs are great. I just hope the media doesn't become paranoid over them and somehow manage to ruin a good thing. Besides, I (like they asked on the survey) actually will stop FF'ing to view commercials that look entertaining or interest me. I keep on gliding past for Tampax and the rest.
Paraphrasing, mind you:
"[Snacks] for each of us will take more than a dollar! It will take all our dollars! That means snacks and change for each one of us, and that takes time we haven't got! This looks like a job for...a twenty!!"
CN has the licensing and the chutzpah to mesh cartoons from all ages, for the benefit and humor of all. God(s) bless the Cartoon Network!
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Co-founder of GerbilMechs
Sure, right now they are all hackable...
But really - there is no way to easily increase storage, or put shows "off-line" or to an external array...
Think about it - why do VCRs exist? The law says that time-shifting is legal. So many of us "time-shift" shows to a tape - so we may watch them again and again - including shows that we may never see again! I have all the episodes of X-Files on tape, as well as all the episodes of Millenium. Which one will most likely go into syndication? X-Files. Millenium will never be seen from again - but I have a copy I can watch again if I want to (including the pilot episode - which has never been rerun, AFAIK - due to the graphic violence portrayed in it).
Guess what? With these PVRs - time-shifting is still allowed - but archiving goes out the door. Slap the DMCA on top of encrypted content - disallow recording shows that you have to pay for (if you can record them at all) - and force subscribed content - and you have a televisions exec's wet dream.
Furthermore, you will never be able to watch those old shows - only what they want to allow you to watch.
This is why I am keeping my VCR as long as I can - at least until HDTV becomes standard - when that occurs, I might just chuck my TV.
Unless we can build an open homebrew platform for movie and TV watching, at-home TV entertainment is screwed as we know it.
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
However, I doubt a box set will ever appear - and I bet you won't see it running on FX for any real length of time, unlike X-Files.
There are also shows that I wish I could watch again, if just for the laugh factor - two that I would love to watch again are "Whiz Kids" (now I know that one is syndicated on some channel - not sure which, though), and "Automan" (cheesy, cheesy, cheesy). There was another one I wouldn't mind watching (called "Lost World" or something, about a family that wanders through parallel universes, going through these warping devices shaped like pyramids I believe - and no, it isn't "Land of the Lost" I am thinking about - it was like a family of four or five people).
Anyhow - these devices could cause the prevention of any such watching of this nature...
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
TiVo 2.0 has a feature where you can tweak the start/end time for a program so that it'll start early or end late (or whatever combination you need), which helps if a channel is consistently early or late. If they're all over the map, though, you're still SOL.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Not quite. Stations get ratings from statistics gathered through various forms, including polls. If the poller asks someone what station they watched, and the person doesn't know, then the station gets no recognition. The poll results set the value of the stations advertising time, not the actual number of viewers.
When statistics gatherers can tell what station you were watching without having to ask (i.e. smart boxes that report back channel and time usage), then you would be correct.
This form has other problems, such as I left the box on and walked out of the house. Statistics get recorded, but I wasn't actually watching.
Station recognition has other benefits that I won't go into. It's not just about what the viewer cares about.
There is nothing so silly as other peoples traditions, and nothing so sacred as our own.
Now that UK has more stations, cable, etc, this may have changed. But it used to be like that.
Which reminds me of a funny story. About 20 years ago I was watching TV with my cousin and her parents when an ad for Double-Decker candy bar came on. Some stupid jingle that sang something like "Eat double decker candy bars, it'll help keep your pecker up."
I was laughing so hard my eyes were streaming while these proper english folks were staring at that crazy American without a clue that pecker meant one's male member and not your chin in the U.S. I was crying as I said "Damn, I'm going to buy me a few cases of those things."
Fscking cool tech. Evil as hell (today it's sports, tomorrow it's the news, see that really is $POLITICIAN in $BAD_PLACE! We have video to prove it!), but I don't blame you for jumping at the chance to work with cool toys ;-)
The funniest thing I saw recently was an auto race where the cars kept driving past this billboard. The funny thing was, the billboard appeared only in one camera angle, and cast no shadow. Sometimes, the billboard was blank (probably because I was watching an over-the-air broadcast, not cable.) Translation: somebody goofed. (Either that, or there was a Glitch in The Matrix, and I'm waking up :)
Another cute trick comes from F1 - for several years, advertisers have laid down billboards on the grass surrounding the racetrack. The cute part is that the ads have been stretched/distorted so that they appear "flat" when viewed from the camera that happens to cover that turn. (And really weird when another camera happens to catch a glimpse of them :) Basically, the inverse of what you'd do in GIMP (screw Photoshop ;-) to make a billboard that you took a picture of at an oddball angle look like you were viewing it face-on. No computers required. (Though it'd be trivial to digitally-insert new ads on top of these, since the shapes are known in advance to be "nearly-perfect rectangles surrounded by green" to any software fed input from the camera.)
Prediction: Part of the fun of watching live sports and news (they digitally-edited Times Square for New Year's Eve, Y2K) will soon be figuring out how much of what you're seeing is "live", and how much is digitally-generated.
No, it was sarcastic. However, the poster apparently anticipated that some might not get it, and put a reference to "Brave new world" in the last sentence. In case you don't know "Brave new world" describes a distopian society that you'd rather not live in...
> Have you ever seen clips of the news in Iraq? They still say that they won the Gulf war!
Not that the CNN "Nintendo-wars" reporting was any better...
Say no to software patents.
PVRs are a godsend. I've had my TiVo for about half-a-year, and I almost refuse to watch TV without it. I watch twice as many programs as I used to, and I do it all in the same amount of time I've always had.
:)
TiVo's suggestions and season passes are fantastic. I have a very intrusive work schedule, and I used to have a hard time keeping up with a lot of the shows I like to watch on a daily basis. With my modified 144hr TiVo, I literally set season passes up for every show I like to watch - and view them whenever it's convenient. Skipping commercials saves a good 1/4 of my time, and it's ideal for watching time-shifted sports. Wrastlin' for example (ok ok, sports entertainment... whatever) is awesome on TiVo... 60x FF through commercials and "reviews", 2x FF through matches you don't care too much about (since you can still see all the action), and watch all of the rest of the program. I nuke a 1:07 WWF RAW in 31min. I also will purposely start watching shows late, just to have the ability to burn through any TV show. I can watch yesterday's and today's Simpsons episode in just about the same half-hour.
Probably the best feature of TiVo is the instant replay. I use it often for catching those commercials that are absolutely hysterical, or even more for "live TV mishaps"... when someone accidently cuts to a backstage camera or puts something on the screen that certainly shouldn't be there. It's perfect for that flasher that walks up behind your local news guy's stand-up.
I personally have a box very similar to that at home. It's a Windows 2000 box (stop throwing things at me!) that has an ATI All-In-Wonder Pro inside of it, a huge 40 GB hard drive (the only reason it's not a Linux box; older BIOS couldn't recognize the large HDD), a PII 233, 128 MB of RAM, and a TV-out so I can view it on the big screen. It captures directly into MPEG-1 format, at about a Gig per hour (which can be further trimmed down by DiVX for archival purposes). The ATI drivers even have a scheduler, so you can say "I want to record channel X for Y minutes on Z date" and it will do it for you.
It's not quite as elegant as a TiVo, but it is highly adaptable, and can be used all over the world. It just takes a bit more time to set up, and a bit of a hacker mentality in order to deal with all the problems that arise (especially cutting off the beginning and ends of programs... Does TiVo have this problem?)
------
That's just the way it is
We already know where this one will go. When that senior executive finds out what PVR's are and what they can really do, you can bet that he's going to scream bloody murder and threaten TiVO with lawyers unless they put in a piece of hardware that makes you watch the ads. Wouldn't it be cool if instead of reacting with lawsuit (which we all know the networks will inevitably do) they responded to PVR's by making ads fun to watch?
Do you have problems with excessively pointy nipples? It seems like at some point in our lives, we have all had problems with embarassing nipple points! Well in more primative days you might have had to reach for a sweater. Not any more! Now you can ask your doctor about Flern! The miracle drug that can eliminate your pointy nipple problems! Forever! Ask your doctor about Flern today! (Possible side effects include liver problems, psychotic episodes and projectile vomiting. Ask your doctor before taking Flern if you are pregnant or nursing.)
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
There are exactly two sources of online television listing information for U.S. cable systems: Tribune Media Services, and TV Guide.
Both of these providers make their money by selling access to the data, and have a TOS on their web site that forbids extracting the data and loading it into your own PVR without paying them for their data.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
I think this could lead to a complete change in marketing. No longer are we going to be bombarded with ads we don't give a rat's ass about. Now the billboards in movies are going to sold, and changed to suit differet areas/cultures/people. Now I am going to see Coke or Dr. Pepper (since I am in the south) while yankees will see Pepsi, and the such.
Obviously marketing strategies are going to have to change if people are not watching the ads. Companies will find a way (e.g. X10) to MAKE you see what they want you to. Then, things like browser.open can be shut off...and oops...they found another way.
It's a cycle that we go thru. It's all part of being in a free market economy. They want to sell, we want to buy, so they find a way to tell us what they have! It all goes in a circle.
------ This has been provided as a public service! ------
Actually [certainly in the UK] adverts breaks are already marked to allow local re-broadcasters to insert localised adverts and content in broadcasts. They are also syncronised [iirc] to 1/6th of a second. It's also possible to buy analog recorders off the shelf that recognise these and jump-cut adverts automatically.
OTIt annoys to hell out of me that subscription channels also carry adverts, usually more adverts than the terrestrial channels which [in the UK] have an hourly advert limit set my licence regulation.
I do all of my tv watching via TiVo now, and personally I think this report is rubbish in regards to branding and advertising. My rebuttal, in no particular order:
First, people who use a PVR do watch more tv. As a result, they are exposed to more ads during the same time period then they were before.
At least on TiVo, it is impossible to skip over the commercials. Even on maximum fast forward, which is mighty tricky to stop with precision, you get the gist of the commercials and the advertisers still get brand recognition.
Many networks use station branding to fill gaps in their commercial windows (which can be seen even during fast forward) and many place little visual "bugs" in the corner of the programming itself. (TNT is particularly annoying in this regard.)
While 12% couldn't say which network the show was on, atleast that many wouldn't have watched it at all had it not been for their PVR. Ain't statistics great. Think about it. Wouldn't you rather have viewers, even if they don't know who you are, than not have them. If they don't know what network the show is on, how were they gonna watch it without the PVR; and for many shows, who's gonna stay up to 4am to watch it.
Networks may get better ad revenue at night, eventually. I regularly record programming that I wouldn't stay up for. As PVRs become more common place and rating systems catch on, the time of day a show airs will become less relevant to the pricing for its advertising.
Many of the described problems can be addressed through simple changes if the networks care. For example, if you want to record a half-hour show starting at 8:30 and running to 9:00, the PVR will start at 8:30 and run to 9:00. Instead of starting the program at 8:30:00, start it at 8:30:05 and preceed it with 5 seconds of "You're watching ____."
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
Which is why my wife and I sit down 15 minutes into a show TiVo's recording, FF over the commercials, and if we time it right, catch up exactly at the end. No commercials, effectively real-time viewing, and a bit of extra free time (and with a two-year-old, fifteen minutes makes a difference!)
http://www.showstopper.com
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Crap, that's not the right link. And now I can't find it. But it is out there. There have already been ask slashdots about it.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Tivo has recently introduced a new "feature" to brand the shows for the networks. For example, some of the shows it tapes for me have a peacock icon next to them, in an attempt to make sure people know what channel it came from. I wonder if the 12 percent was measured before or after that change.
Of course, even that doesn't exactly do wonders. First off, I don't even remember who the hell the peacock is (CBS? NBC?). Furthermore, I don't care. I tell Tivo to record shows that I've heard are good. When I want to watch live TV (never), I browse the show names. The only reason I want to know which network shows what is so I can understand all the jokes about UPN.
Will channels as a brand die? It's possible, but I doubt the brands were ever as strong as they'd like to think. It's the content, stupid.
Telling them that you just found a way to skip all of the ads is as clever as telling a store owner that you found a neat way to shoplift from his store (although the former is not illegal -- yet).
Its more like telling a waiter you dont really have to tip him. Or telling a priest you arent required to put money in the collection plate.
If enough people stop doing these things voluntarily, well then they will probably start charging outright for their services.
There is really nothing wrong with that per se. But the store/stealing analogy is all wrong. Content is not a product. It cannot be stolen.
"
The other option, of course, is all-pay channels, or pay-per-view on all shows. That's what you want, right?
"
That's exactly what I want.
When I buy a chocolate bar, I am paying money to their marketing departement to pay a TV company to produce programs. I'd rather have a cheaper chocolate bar and have to pay for the TV thanks.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
Ok... here is what I want to know. Is anyone working on an open-source Tivo-like device which doesn't require a monthly service fee to access programming info, and instead you would program it in a similar fashion to a VCR? IMHO, I think this would be a much better, and more easily attainable application of linux + cheap hardware for a consumer device then something such as a gaming console. With a device like this, you might have the option of buying a prebuilt one, paying a bit more for the hardware in exhange for not needing to pay monthly service fees, or you could build your own using published specs and software. If done right, this is something that would appeal to both techies and non techies. People who frequent slashdot would more than likely build our own, but if the device was as simple to use as a VCR then non tech people would still be interested in buying prebuilt devices.
Time for some tasty Shiner Bock!
With only one agency reporting the news, it would be more concise, clear, and best of all, not biased at the least in order to get ratings.
Is this a serious post? Have you ever seen clips of the news in Iraq? They still say that they won the Gulf war! Of course, it is government-run, but if only one source is reporting the news, you only get ONE viewpoint.
It's nearly impossible to write a truly unbiased story, giving fair time to all viewpoints. Having a multitude of news sources ensures that most sides of a story are heard, and not even this works all the time.
I'm sorry but the logic behind all the statements in the previous post is just very odd. Think about so many of the major stories over the years, if there were only one news source, most of those stories wouldn't be uncovered. Would there have been a Watergate if there were no Washington Post? Maybe, maybe not. The point of having free media coming at you from different viewpoints--be it liberal, conservative, environmental, industrial, pro-life, pro-choice, or whatever--is that everyone is heard.
Like I said, if you want a country that has one news source, try Iraq.
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
It wasn't an assumption. I'm willing to bet that the other poster followed your lead, when you referred to the person that you're going to marry as your fiance. A fiance is a man who's engaged to be married. A fiancee is a woman who's engaged to be married.
It's already on its way.
Background: I worked on a project which took LIVE video from at camera at a sporting event, searched for a "target" in the video, and if found, mapped an advertisement over the target (appropriately scaling, rotating, etc.) and sent the generated video out to a payperview TV channel. NOTE: This was a couple years ago; it required about $BIGNUM of computer and digital video equipment, and a couple of people to operate it. The goal: targeted advertising based on destination country (e.g. Budweiser in USA, Guiness in the UK.)
With the recent, and continuing, advances in video cards and computing horsepower, I can see the day when this is done in each user's PVR! The programming challenge we faced was actually locating the target in the video. With pre-recorded content, the coordinates could be determined in advance and shipped along with the video to the PVR -- then it's just a minor effort to map the selected product onto the specified coordinates.
For example, "Mary" might see Jennifer Anniston drink a Diet Coke, but Joe SixPack sees her down a Budweiser. (Programming challenge: hack the PVR so that it can target and replace clothing with skin tones. :*)
I've been using a PVR for years now. What are these things they call ads? I have no idea what an ad is, and I have no interest in finding out. I have no more comments.
Donate background CPU time to fight cancer.
The fact that both the advertising companies and the media companies backed the PVR makers should give you pause before you start celebrating the death of either.
Milo
Speaking of which, remind me to pick up some VHS tapes to collect those Dr. Who episodes that are eating up my disk space...
std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
Notice how Hemos still watches the ads on Cartoon network. Did you stop to wonder why he'll watch those ads, but not others? I've seen them before, and I'd gladly watch them again. ... If they want our attention for 30 seconds at a time again, they're going to have to work for it by making commercials entertaining!
No. I'm pretty sure that if you poll everyone with a PVR, you will find out that the vast majority do not watch ANY ads. I surely don't wait at a commercial break and see if the ad is funny. And since TiVo only has FF, and no "30-second skip," there's no way in hell I'm stopping for any along the way. I hit FF, wait a second or so after I see the show come back, and hit play. No commercials at all.
The only time I see anything at all ad-related is if I press the play button too soon, and I catch the last second or so of the commercial break.
I think you're going to see more advertising within the program itself. Sporting events have the arenas, half-time shows, etc. with corporate names. Soccer matches have little ads next to the clock.
Pretty soon I expect to see a scene like this on West Wing:
President: Leo, have the generals come up with a plan of attack yet?
Leo: No, sir. They expect to have three to choose from within 5 hours.
President: (Checking watch.) Damnit! We're going to be here all night again! Charlie, would you go fetch me a Code Red?
Charlie: The internet worm, sir?
President: No! Mountain Dew Code Red, of course! The best drink on earth! The President of the United States always drinks Code Red when he's pulling an all-nighter!
"And like that
I do believe he was using a bit of the old sarcasm there - judging by the reference to Brave New World at the end anyway. I think that 95% of the world can agree that having an official version of the news is a bad thing. We are, however, moving very closely to that today. All the major networks are owned by multinational corporations who have the same interests. Notice how little news there was about the G8 summit protests beyond the one protester getting shot in the head, and then blaming all the violence on a small fraction of the protesters. Now go to indymedia and see how they report it. I'm not saying that indymedia is not sensationalist or that they are entirely accurate, just that the truth has to lie somewhere in between.
The things you do to save a few hundred dollars on a Personal Video recorder...
I am trying to peice together something like the TIVO unit - I have a couple large HHD's, a motherboard that can do RAID, and a Matrox g400 Marvel. Not really a great gaming card, but it a fair job with MJPEG capture.
After waiting and waiting for drivers, I downloaded the final cut of the PC-VCR tools and drivers for Win2K - which holds the promise of getting over the 2M file limit I had in WinSE. What did they do? It is now a TV tuner with no recording. Way lame for a (at the time) $300 card that was bought just for that kind of thing. What did Matrox say? Hey, here is a coupon for $50 for one of our new shiny Marvel 450 cards that don't have hardware encoding, so no issues! Hmmn, only $170 more to get a version that does software encoding... I need a shower.
Yup, I was trying to use Win2K for this rather than Linux. Video4Linux might give me what I need for capturing, but I'm still learning the config and install stuff on Linux. (Got tomcat and apache to run, still struggling with Oracle... but getting close, I think). That, and my editing software is Window's based...
My wife just gave me that "your crazy" look when I vented to her last night - I know you guys care....
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
You referred to your "fiance" -- a word that means a man who is engaged to be married . It's like referring to your "son" and getting angry when someone assumes that your "son" is male.
In your first message you wrote:
My fiance[sic] and I deliberately fast forward through all commercials
Now you write:
We don't simply ignore all advertising.
At least try to be consistent. First you tell us that you fast-forward through all commercials because you "want advertisers to realize just how ineffective their advertising has become." Now you tell us that you are trying to vote on which commercials that you like through your remote. If you want to show which ads you like, buy the products advertised in them. There have been plenty of entertaining ads that failed to sell products.
The bottom line is this: If you convice all advertisers, except The Cartoon Network ("We will watch those cartoon network ads on occasion though"), that their ads are worthless, then the ads will go away. The ad revenue will go away. And we will all end up paying for television channels that we now enjoy at little or no cost.
I said that telling advertisers that you have found a way to skip their ads is "as clever as telling a store owner that you found a neat way to shoplift from his store." I did not say that it was stealing and, in fact, pointed out that, unlike stealing, it was not illegal. The end result is the same nonetheless: You get something from them while depriving them of their revenue stream -- either directly, in the case of shoplifting, or indirectly, through skipping the ads.
It's simple economics: If advertisers do not believe that the ads are cost-effective, they will stop placing them or demand a lower advertising rate. If the networks lower the advertising rates, then they have to run more commercials to get the same amount of income. When the number of ads goes up, viewership will probably go down. The networks will have to lower the rates again when that happens. Eventually, advertising will not be able to pay for the programming and then the viewers will pay or the programming will go away.
DirecTV feeds encrypted digital signals down to its receivers. You can't decode them or access the digital stream. They can take one of the popular TiVO/DirecTV combo boxes, put a little software in it to recognize a "no fast-forward" code, and you're hosed. End of story.
The networks aren't particularly concerned about the handful of hackers that might find a way to circumvent their commercials. They want the public at large to be forced to see them (remember the scene from A Clockwork Orange?).
So the networks won't mark commercials in an unencrypted manner on broadcast television. But you can bet that they will on DirecTV, Dish Network, and digital cable systems. And they will threaten, or buy contracts with, TiVO and the other PVR manufacturers to make them honor the codes.
As for PVRs reducing ad revenue - it probably will, though perhaps NOT as much as folks think. Remember, with HIT shows, folks like to discuss the latest episode the next day at work. Worse, if you have a recent episode recorded and then folks start talking about the surprise ending - ugh! I plan to get a Tivo soon and I'm sure I'll use it lots, I doubt I'll ever record West Wing unless forced to - I want to watch the new episodes live. TO me PVRs are just another tool for my TV watching.
At some point, TV exces will get clued into this and ad rates for hit shows will go higher while adds for syndicated reruns and lesser known shows will go down.
Also, the networks will make up the ad revenue using the new product placement technology like they now use in ballparks and stuff to put brand name stuff in sets. The production companies will also work hrader to sell product placements than they do now. I honestly could care less if a guy takes a swig from a Bud bottle instead of the obviously fake label bottles they used to use (remember the cans that looked JUST like coke cnas without the trademark logos?) The thing that will turn me instantly off to a show, however, is if the plugs get REALLY obvious during dialog. Its too jarring.
Only time will tell, but I sincerely doubt PVRs will kill network or cable TV. What I fear is PVR vendors selling out and selling ads that you CAN'T skip when you watch shows or look at menus, etc.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
On the other hand, networks that have more popular and well-known shows won't have any problems. For instance, who can watch UPN without realizing it's UPN? Perhaps it's the grainy quality of the signal (even though I have cable) or maybe it's those ads for Special Unit 2. A crime-fighting dwarf is hard to miss even at max fast-forward.
So when these things are pretty much in every house with a TV in the world (or part of the TV), how are networks (including cable networks) going to raise revenue if no one is watching commercials. I hate to think of banner ads on the CBS evening news (oh wait, those don't work), I hate to think of those big banners in the middle of the screen while watching (wait, those don't work either), I hate to think of someone pouring a Coke in the middle of my screen and then have it fade off the left while watching a program I would normally be interested in.
Certainly every man at his best state is but vapor
Fear not, pretty soon(2-3 years maybe less) directed advertising will be a reality thanks in part to seachange international.
/. ) this would be a very welcome revolution in TV.
www.seachangeinternational.com (plain text link for the goatse fearing.
If their targeted advertising shapes up like they hope I won't be fast forwarding through commercials.
The way it works(although most will scoff at this) is by using the MAC address built into cable boxes, it will keep a generic profile of your viewing habits, and then direct ads to you. say I watch farscape on SCI-FI and ED on NBC, I'll get more SCI-Fi related ads, and ads relating to comedy shows, lawyer shows, and bowling shows, etc. I saw a glimpse of it at a recent trade show.
If people can get over the relatively anonymous and generic profiling(even though I see that could never happen, esp. on
Local news is 80% "Puppies Down Wells" and "Kittens Stuck in Trees."
*FOX* Local news is "When Puppies Down Wells Attack" and "Kittens Stuck in Trees Who Rob Banks."
______
______
Once: you're a philosopher. Twice: a pervert.
What is the solution? Well, the ideal mix of users includes a large majority who view the ads, and a small minority (this usually turns out to be the technically-inclined Slashdot crowd) who knows how to avoid them. Keep this mix, and everything is great for both groups. Let the balance get out of hand, and the result will disappoint us all.
The rise of PVRs can improve our enjoyment of TV, or it can destroy the content providers. And at this point, it could go either way.
-all dead homiez
I'm sure NBC/CBS cares that you don't know which channel you're watching. Us TV Stations spend a lot of time and effort giving themselves a sort of brand image with "Fall Lineups", "Tuesday Action Nights" or whatever. They also spend a lot of time and effort scheduling their lineup so that when they catch viewers they can keep them.
Of course they probably care even more about the fact that viewers won't be watching adverts, for obvious reasons.
I think the 'one channel reporting the news' concept is a little dangerous- you think a single news channel would really be more consise, clear, and unbiased? Imagine if you could only go to CNN for all forms of news; no slashdot, BBC, etc.
If there is any doubt, look at the popularity of sites like AdCritic.Com and the ratins for shows like "The Best Commercials You've Never Seen".
Personally, I enjoy both although I wish adcritic.com would grow some fair use backbone and offer a greater selection (they remove ads by request).
If an ad is done properly it can be quite enjoyable. Not just the funny ones either, there are some ones that really get a reaction.
Personally, with respect to PVRs, I believe the future of ads lies with product placement just like in the movies. Monica and Chandler drinking a Pepsi. The Simpsons ordering from Domino's. Frasier buying a new car from...whatever online car site hasn't gone out of business.
People I think have grown accustomed to the subtle influences that advertising has on their life. But any time you force someone to watch a commercial they are not interested in, you are asking for backlash. I am boycotting a new theater in town because they show 15 minutes of paid commecials (just like TV) interspersed within the trailers (which I sometimes do want to watch). I refuse to pay $8 to fill a seat, $8 for a light snack, and then still provide the theater with another income stream by being a captive eyeball.
- JoeShmoe
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
The executive said he had never heard of PVRs, and moreover, he wasn't interested in learning more.
Radio Executive circa 1950: "I don't know anything about this 'television', and quite frankly, I'm not really interested in learning more."
Newspaper Executive circa 1920: "I don't know anything about this 'radio', and quite frankly, I'm not really interested in learning more."
Telegraph Executive circa 1870: "I don't know anything about this 'telephone', and quite frankly I'm not really interested in learning more."
Town Crier Executive circa 1450: "I don't know anything about this 'printing press', and quite frankly I'm not really interested in learning more."
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
> I watch barely any ads - but I usually have a good idea which channel I'm on. CartoonNetwork has some great network promoting ads.
THAT is why. Notice how Hemos still watches the ads on Cartoon network. Did you stop to wonder why he'll watch those ads, but not others? I've seen them before, and I'd gladly watch them again. All because they are actually entertaining. You forget that it's a commercial when you watch those ads, and that makes them much more effective.
The usual product pushing ads are boring. No one wants to waste their time watching 30 second informercials. "Jet dry will keep your dishwasher dishes clean and walk your dog too!" Bah! It's boring and has no entertaining value. I wouldn't voluntarily watch it either.
People with PVRs skip commercials for the same reason that most people don't watch Saturday afternoon infomercials. Because they are boring!
PVRs aren't going to go away anytime soon. Marketing drones are going to have to learn that the hard way. If they want our attention for 30 seconds at a time again, they're going to have to work for it by making commercials entertaining!
Maybe we're now moving to a time when all the companies will merge together and begin concentrating on actually providing quality television, rather than scrambling for ratings.
I hope that, in the future, there is only one or two channels that show us quality television all the time. Especially the news. The fewer people that are reporting the same stories, the better quality those stories will be.
Think about it; how many channels have a dozen people reporting the news? Tons. And if you could concentrate all those people into one large group and send them out on non-overlapping missions, that would be great! With only one agency reporting the news, it would be more concise, clear, and best of all, not biased at the least in order to get ratings.
I look forward to this Brave New World.
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That's just the way it is
It is no surprise to hear that people are watching less ads when they have a PVR, but we must ensure that we can continue to provide a Free way to create a PVR from commodity traffic. The question is why is their not yet a tivo type service for every tv station on the planet (like Ireland please, I could grey import a tivo now but what would be the point?). We need to release a Free package that can control a video capture device by using a db of your interests/program choices and an online db of all the tv stations available to you. I started to gather the resources to do Irish TV, can anyone point me to any projects that might like my help?
Never underestimate the dark side of the Source
The correct explanation of why you got a PVR (when talking to someone doing a survey for television advertisers) is: "I sometimes miss the toll-free phone numbers on ads and wanted to be able to pause them. I also like to watch really good ads over and over. Don't you just love the Budweiser ads with the frogs and lizards? Advertising has gotten so clever..."
Remember, the television networks took DirecTV to court to prevent DirecTV from giving subscribers network signals from stations outside of their local area. The networks are violently protective of local and national advertising revenue. Telling them that you just found a way to skip all of the ads is as clever as telling a store owner that you found a neat way to shoplift from his store (although the former is not illegal -- yet).