Well, that's even worse! It means a beast, without free will, and therefore one of God's automaton, instructed the innocent Eve to eat the fruit, whislt she was ignorant of good and evil.
Likewise, the fall of Adam, which God knew would happen, also serves to glorify God
It's called "entrapment". He created man, and placed him in a situation where he knew that he would be given a reason to punish him. It's sadistic, to say the least.
I don't. Why do you interpret "I think it would do you mormons a lot of good" as a grab for power? Honest and friendly discussions are shunned by your church all of a sudden?
Job 40:8 "Do you presume to tell me what I'm doing wrong? Are you calling me a sinner so you can be a saint?
In any case, you misunderstand the term. It is used in the biblical sense, not the Catholic sense.
i know a lot about evolution. a lot they don't teach in schools.
You know things they do not teach in schools? Where DO they teach it? Church?
i have read books on it, listened to speakers on it, had my questions answered on it, studdied it.
Books written, and questions answered, by whom? Biologists, or theologians who did lip service at universities to get "credentials" in biology?
Why does a discussion of ID never bring up the merits or science but always turns it into a fight against evolution?
Because that is the very reason for the creation of the "intelligent design" movement: It is an attempt at using pseudoscience to discredit science by using it's vernacular. It is a mockery of science, a unholy work of obfuscation and purposeful confusion.
the Bible encourages intelligent people to press on in the face of ignorance. Noah knew about the Flood and built the boat despite being mocked by his ignorant neighbors, who all died.
That's not "intelligence": That's "doing what you're told".
If you are LDS, then the answer is yes, and yes there is an endless recursion, or at least that is the implication. Of course if you are LDS, then evolution probably doesn't bother you much.
You know, I think it would do you mormons a lot of good, credibility wise, to stop calling yourselves saints. It's kinda creepy.
You've never seen a parent of a child who just broke a window or something come to that child and ask "What did you do?". He was allowing Adam and Eve to expain themselves, even if thier excuse was feeble. Adam: "It's the womans fault"
God the Deciever! Nice.
Let the woman get away with it. Wait until the man, seeing that the woman got away with it, and in his God given innocence trusts his one true love who was telling him it's allright, and then punish them both!
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
10 He answered, "I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
11 And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?"
12 The man said, "The woman you put here with me--she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it."
13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
God. Didn't. Know! Omniscient? Not according to the bible.
Dismissing Intelligent Design as not being science is the same as dismissing theories of a round world revolving around the sun as heresy.
It is, in fact, the EXACT OPPOSITE of that:
Dismissing darwinist biology is the same as dismissing copernician cosmology.
Filling up a schoolboard with fundies to force "intelligent design" on science teachers is the same as using the all-powerfull church to censor natural philosophers. They both used bible-based pseudoscience and political power to drown out the voice of reason.
If you look at the original Hebrew, the word translated "day" in Genesis has the same meaning as if I said "In my fathers day, automobile fuel was 35 cents a gallon". It refers to a time period. The references to "morning" and "evening" are the same. If this was not the case, there would be no way to count the days until the 3rd "day", since thats when the sun and moon became visable on the surface of the earth.
The earth is several billion years old. The universe is much older. Those who think that the bible claims the earth was created in 6 literal days simply have not done enough research on the matter.
And latter on, the same word is used to mean "day", as in the seventh day is the Lord's day, and you will honor the sabbath. If the bible is God's word, he's got a twisted sense of humour, using irony like that...
If you presuppose an infinitely powerful being, evolution seems like so much wasted effort.
That sums it up nicely, I thank you.
"Presuppose": preconceived judgment. Evolution contradicts what they were indoctrinated to believe as impressionable youths, therefore it MUST be wrong.
What I don't get is why these freaks can't just accept the idea that perhaps evolution is part of whatever "intelligent design" they believe in?
Because the entire point of "intelligent design" is to oppose evolution. It's an act of subterfuge, motivated in bad faith by the desire to conserve old religious beliefs. It is hypocrisy, once you take that into account, their behaviour makes sense.
He knew the gullible bint was going to eat the apple.
Um... no.
Chief Wiggum: What IS your fascination with my forbidden closet of mysteries?
So God created Man, man and woman he created them. And then he created Adam, and from one of Adam's ribs, he created Eve, and he had NO UNDERSTANDING OF HUMAN NATURE at ALL and expected these ignorant children to have enough self controll not to eat the apple? AND in his omnipresence and omniscience he didn't know that the Morning Star was undermining his commandments, and he didn't put the blame only on him, in his endless love he kicked the kids out and let them fend for themselves.
Because of imperical evidence: I am here and it is supporting me and billions of other critters like me. I have observed the evidence: Earth's ecosystems work.
Always strikes me as extremely arrogant to assume that Earth as it is is perfect.
And it just now strikes me as incredibly stupid to read "works out nicely" as "perfect". Putting words in my mouth, and you call me arrogant? Hypocrite.
Aside from, you know, the lack of churches, holy books, priests, and fanatics who kill people because of their god's commandments.
Atheism, agnosticism, those are not religions. They are not things that people have been indoctrinated to believe in since birth through the use of ceremony and ritual. They are an absence of religion.
All this talk about how creationism == loony bin reminds me of how poor Galileo must have felt.
He must have felt the SAME DAMN WAY those teachers are feeling: Religious loonies in postions of power are forcing me to say things I don't believe, and are trying to stop me from teaching real science! And there's nothing I can do about it!
evolution is, it is a theory people. Theory. It still has holes, giant unexplainable holes.
Such as?
Intelligent design is simply stating that certain things in life - like DNA - are simply too complex to have been formed by some amino acids randomly millions of years ago. It doesn't necessarily propose a God figure, but SOME intelligence behind our design.
It doesn't propose a God figure, simply an eternal, all knowing, all powerfull superbeing that was there before life existed and that knew in advance how these incredibly complex interactions of millions of molecules would end up as sheep and flowers and people. "Oh yeah, that's not a thinly veiled way of saying 'god did it"?
Intelligence is the process of rationally building and testing theories about the world, and then using those theories for useful stuff. DNA is mutated, recombined, merged through sex, and otherwise changed. These changes are hypotheses about the world, in the form of new life forms trying to survive there. Thus life forms which do not reproduce are falsified hypotheses. The useful stuff is survival.
Intelligent design inplies that the critters and ecosystems they form were planned. Tot tried and tested blindly until it finally worked out nicely.
Evolution is not intelligent: it's chaotic. It depends on external conditions (wether or not giant comets are crashing about the planet at the time, for instance), and it keeps on repeating it's mistakes, which is not a sign of intelligence.
I miss the beautifull surreal skittle ads, the creepifying ones don't make me want to eat their stuff: I might get the same horrible nightmare vision they do.
Slashdot Mirror
Yeah, but what I can't figure out is... where did Cain and Able's wives come from?
Oh, they married some of the hermaphrodites God created before Adam and Eve:
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Mind you, this is on day 5... he creates Adam after he took a breather on day 7.
This is what I mean.
One cryptic reference, good.
And about putting words in my mouth? You are silent?
Lucifer is never outlined as the serpent in Eden.
Huh, lookadat, you're right.
Well, that's even worse! It means a beast, without free will, and therefore one of God's automaton, instructed the innocent Eve to eat the fruit, whislt she was ignorant of good and evil.
Likewise, the fall of Adam, which God knew would happen, also serves to glorify God
It's called "entrapment".
He created man, and placed him in a situation where he knew that he would be given a reason to punish him. It's sadistic, to say the least.
I don't.
Why do you interpret "I think it would do you mormons a lot of good" as a grab for power?
Honest and friendly discussions are shunned by your church all of a sudden?
In any case, you misunderstand the term. It is used in the biblical sense, not the Catholic sense.
What do you mean?
i know a lot about evolution. a lot they don't teach in schools.
You know things they do not teach in schools?
Where DO they teach it? Church?
i have read books on it, listened to speakers on it, had my questions answered on it, studdied it.
Books written, and questions answered, by whom?
Biologists, or theologians who did lip service at universities to get "credentials" in biology?
Why does a discussion of ID never bring up the merits or science but always turns it into a fight against evolution?
Because that is the very reason for the creation of the "intelligent design" movement: It is an attempt at using pseudoscience to discredit science by using it's vernacular. It is a mockery of science, a unholy work of obfuscation and purposeful confusion.
the Bible encourages intelligent people to press on in the face of ignorance.
Noah knew about the Flood and built the boat despite being mocked by his ignorant neighbors, who all died.
That's not "intelligence": That's "doing what you're told".
If you are LDS, then the answer is yes, and yes there is an endless recursion, or at least that is the implication. Of course if you are LDS, then evolution probably doesn't bother you much.
.
You know, I think it would do you mormons a lot of good, credibility wise, to stop calling yourselves saints
It's kinda creepy.
You've never seen a parent of a child who just broke a window or something come to that child and ask "What did you do?". He was allowing Adam and Eve to expain themselves, even if thier excuse was feeble.
Adam: "It's the womans fault"
God the Deciever! Nice.
Let the woman get away with it.
Wait until the man, seeing that the woman got away with it, and in his God given innocence trusts his one true love who was telling him it's allright, and then punish them both!
I assume nothing:
God. Didn't. Know!
Omniscient? Not according to the bible.
A friend referred me to this, which you might enjoy seeing one (or twenty) times. http://hitchhikers.movies.go.com/games/dolphins.sw f
Hahaha! Thanks! I've been looking for that song, had it stuck in my head for days : )
Dismissing Intelligent Design as not being science is the same as dismissing theories of a round world revolving around the sun as heresy.
It is, in fact, the EXACT OPPOSITE of that:
Dismissing darwinist biology is the same as dismissing copernician cosmology.
Filling up a schoolboard with fundies to force "intelligent design" on science teachers is the same as using the all-powerfull church to censor natural philosophers. They both used bible-based pseudoscience and political power to drown out the voice of reason.
If you look at the original Hebrew, the word translated "day" in Genesis has the same meaning as if I said "In my fathers day, automobile fuel was 35 cents a gallon". It refers to a time period. The references to "morning" and "evening" are the same. If this was not the case, there would be no way to count the days until the 3rd "day", since thats when the sun and moon became visable on the surface of the earth.
;-)
The earth is several billion years old. The universe is much older. Those who think that the bible claims the earth was created in 6 literal days simply have not done enough research on the matter.
And latter on, the same word is used to mean "day", as in the seventh day is the Lord's day, and you will honor the sabbath.
If the bible is God's word, he's got a twisted sense of humour, using irony like that...
BTW, Asimov said it better than you
If you presuppose an infinitely powerful being, evolution seems like so much wasted effort.
That sums it up nicely, I thank you.
"Presuppose": preconceived judgment. Evolution contradicts what they were indoctrinated to believe as impressionable youths, therefore it MUST be wrong.
What I don't get is why these freaks can't just accept the idea that perhaps evolution is part of whatever "intelligent design" they believe in?
Because the entire point of "intelligent design" is to oppose evolution.
It's an act of subterfuge, motivated in bad faith by the desire to conserve old religious beliefs. It is hypocrisy, once you take that into account, their behaviour makes sense.
Lay out for me some experiment I can do in which one of the possible outcomes disproves the existance of God
Simple: God is love, and is perfect, and created man in his image?
Therefore, diarrhea proves that God doesn't exist: Q.e.d.
So God created Man, man and woman he created them.
And then he created Adam, and from one of Adam's ribs, he created Eve, and he had NO UNDERSTANDING OF HUMAN NATURE at ALL and expected these ignorant children to have enough self controll not to eat the apple? AND in his omnipresence and omniscience he didn't know that the Morning Star was undermining his commandments, and he didn't put the blame only on him, in his endless love he kicked the kids out and let them fend for themselves.
No contradictions anywhere in there, huh?
Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Franco, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong ... you Atheists have proud company.
lol! Yeah, they were killing people out of atheism, and not, you know, thirst for power.
Good one! It's not a coincidence, it's a cause! Hihihi!
How do you know it has worked out nicely?
Because of imperical evidence: I am here and it is supporting me and billions of other critters like me.
I have observed the evidence: Earth's ecosystems work.
Always strikes me as extremely arrogant to assume that Earth as it is is perfect.
And it just now strikes me as incredibly stupid to read "works out nicely" as "perfect".
Putting words in my mouth, and you call me arrogant? Hypocrite.
Atheism is then as much a religion as Islam,
Aside from, you know, the lack of churches, holy books, priests, and fanatics who kill people because of their god's commandments.
Atheism, agnosticism, those are not religions. They are not things that people have been indoctrinated to believe in since birth through the use of ceremony and ritual. They are an absence of religion.
All this talk about how creationism == loony bin reminds me of how poor Galileo must have felt.
He must have felt the SAME DAMN WAY those teachers are feeling: Religious loonies in postions of power are forcing me to say things I don't believe, and are trying to stop me from teaching real science! And there's nothing I can do about it!
evolution is, it is a theory people. Theory. It still has holes, giant unexplainable holes.
Such as?
Intelligent design is simply stating that certain things in life - like DNA - are simply too complex to have been formed by some amino acids randomly millions of years ago. It doesn't necessarily propose a God figure, but SOME intelligence behind our design.
Are you Raelian?
It doesn't propose a God figure, simply an eternal, all knowing, all powerfull superbeing that was there before life existed and that knew in advance how these incredibly complex interactions of millions of molecules would end up as sheep and flowers and people.
"Oh yeah, that's not a thinly veiled way of saying 'god did it"?
Intelligence is the process of rationally building and testing theories about the world, and then using those theories for useful stuff. DNA is mutated, recombined, merged through sex, and otherwise changed. These changes are hypotheses about the world, in the form of new life forms trying to survive there. Thus life forms which do not reproduce are falsified hypotheses. The useful stuff is survival.
Intelligent design inplies that the critters and ecosystems they form were planned. Tot tried and tested blindly until it finally worked out nicely.
Evolution is not intelligent: it's chaotic. It depends on external conditions (wether or not giant comets are crashing about the planet at the time, for instance), and it keeps on repeating it's mistakes, which is not a sign of intelligence.
The The Dover, Pennsylvania school board's move to force SCIENCE teachers to teach their RELIGIOUS views is flamebait.
That Skittles got to this story first. FYI: Skittles has been playing a commercial with two sheep with human heads are eating Skittles.
Available on their site, quicktime or windows media: Taste the sheep boys.
I miss the beautifull surreal skittle ads, the creepifying ones don't make me want to eat their stuff: I might get the same horrible nightmare vision they do.