She had a lot in common with many women in IT today and felt that it was a mistake to focus on bringing more women into the field when we should be focusing on more fundamnetal goals instead. This is a great point. The whole post was very insightful.
Before I focused my career 100% on the technology aspect, I helped with recruiting and interviews because it was the eaisest way to get promoted and stay technical but avoid the management track where I had to do employee reviews and firings. The seminars about interviews and recruiting tell the truth about "hiring demographics" or whatever the PC term for it is now.
I quit the recruiting ASAP though because applicants, including females, at the job fairs would actually admit to me they didn't want to be doing IT, but felt it was the best financial hope for their future.
It doesn't matter what career path you're on, if you're just in the interview stage and already admitting you don't want to do it, then I'm going to put your resume in the "NO" pile even if I smile and thank you for your time. Unhappy workers are not productive or good for other's morale.
Not all the women specifically mentioned why they didn't want to do IT. A few asked me up front if I had to deal with sexism or what it was like working for and with all men. I even remember one asking me if there were any technical women at the company. When I explained that I was actually one of them, that does recruiting part time she let loose and explicative and something about how I really break the typical stereotype of "technical women". (I was pretty PO'ed at this because we have some really hawt ladies that are very competant, but I kept her resume anyway.)
The OP's question is going to generate different answers. Especially with the generations of late. I wanted a job in IT that I enjoyed with enough compensation so that I could afford the enormous cost of living in the area I chose to live safely as a single female right out of college. Along with it I wasn't going to sacrifice any of my integrity.
Well, it seems "the user" isn't. If your ISP did, then an account would automatically be created when you signed up with your ISP, increasing Gmail's numbers, if not usage. Well its not "the" point but here's a point: If Google does this and gobbles up a lot of the non-major ISP mail systems, at least they'll all be standard as far as the mail goes. That makes less headaches for all those completely computer illiterate people that just won't stop asking me for free tech support because I'm too nice to say no.
I work with youth. Ritalin is a bad start for the answer. Less then 3% of the "ADD" youth I worked with need Ritalin.
I'm so relieved to see your post, and to see that its modded up as insightful in this discussion that is a tangent, but relevant to the discussion of the original topic.
I am an advocate for breaking down stigmas and stereotypes about mental health. There are too many misconceptions that Ritalin is an easy answer for ADD. (For clarity, ADD was renamed and so some people are using the term ADHD-Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.) There are too many misconceptions about how many youth have clinical ADD. Its easier to give kids drugs or draw some sort of line and say this is how you parent, but easy isn't necessarily right for everyone.
I had a really great source to cite that would have backed up your post that has unfortunately gone offline in the last month. It contained documents about how there were preschools and private schools in California several years ago that required kids to be on Ritalin and similar drugs to get in. Mental health and youth advocacy groups lobbied and worked with the CA legislature to pass public policy to help end this kind of extreme {I'm at a loss of what to call this}. I can provide a link to CHADD's public policy page which shows some more localized efforts. I'm also going to post the information about ADHD/ADD from NIMH because I think its very comprehensive about a misunderstood disorder. The best way to treat ignorance is with education.
My sister is an ADA for juvenile defenders in a large metropolitan area, her work backs up your statements too. Thanks for posting advocacy and tolerance!
What the hell? Doesn't she have anything better to do? I was hoping someone would do the math on the text per units of time because I was too lazy to. Thats sadly impressive.
When I was her age the best equivalent way to waste time communicating with friends I can think of was writing notes. (There were intricate ways of folding them too.) I remember being thrilled when my dad brought a shredder home and I could dispose of all the evidence of immature things my friends had written about each other in case I got hit by a bus before I could tear up my daily notes.
On my best note-passing days though I think I only used 7 notebook pages. Also, I only wrote notes during school. Granted way back then the US Postal Service was a bit more efficient than days of late and you could ride your bike to anywhere in my hometown in 5 minutes.
Then again, I didn't want to do that math to figure out the rate of texting you did. I guess my laziness could be a lifetime trait, which would account for my low note quota. I'd rather talk to my friends than write notes or text them, today, back then, etc... She would pwn me. Ha ha.
my brain almost stopped me from reading this in time, not quite. i have to work on those cognitive behavioral skills more! i refuse to conform to the text language society!
as for phone bills that are out of hand. didn't we deal with this when 1-900 number chat lines came out in the 80s or 90s or something? history is a repetative cycle we either learn from or fail to do so. no sympathy here.
i can't remember the latin phrase for anything in excess is idiotic.
I've been out of the loop on web programming too long. I had no idea anyone still used Javascript. I guess I should remove the really dusty first edition O'Reilly JS book from my shelf or use the company funded "Obsolete" stamp.
~sigh~ Let me guess, no one writes html in vi either anymore? This is what happens when you work in offices with no windows or internet connections.
Please someone tell me we're not still using Pascal, Lisp?!? I mean I know there is still Fortran code around that has to be maintained but for the love of John Hughes' films and all that is sacred!1!!
~pulls self back together~
I'm sorry about getting OT, won't happen again. I'm just taking my first vacation in a spell...had forgotten there was sunlight, hawt chicks and stuff.
I take offense, I've been around for the long haul, kiddo! I was/.ing while most of you were still in diapers! Cmdrtaco's shell was still growing and CowboyNeal, well I'll just keep that to myself.
Don't mistake a bit of respect for noobility. My/. uid might be lower than yours...
With upper management so young, there might be some decent perks. Maybe snacktime, naps, and cartoon netwoork and console games in the breakrooms. (Naptime especially if the parents are overbearing.) I could always go for on the job naptime and ice cream Wednesdays at Coldstone.
So you're saying this is like those overally agressive soccer moms and dads. Or even worse the parents that enter their kids in those extreme beauty contests at very young ages--except its super young CEO's and business execs? I'm only a kitty parent but I wouldn't even do that to my feline.
If theres proof to that then um...creepy. Someone attach the "scary" tag. I know you need a gimmick these days, but isn't anything sacred?
I couldn't get on to the site elementeo.com for whatever reason. It will be interesting to see if these are whiz kids or just pawns.
I can't find the link to it on Scott Adam's site, and out of courtesy to him I won't link it without his permission. If you've followed Dilbert for at least the last ~13 or so years, it was an early one. Something to the effect of an older engineer giving a younger guy a coin with a dialogue box that said "Here's a nickle, kid. Go get a real operating system."
I only think of that because theres so little info in the article about the actual company, so I can't comment positivily on these smart kids innovative skills.
I actually am rather impressed by the youth of today. They get a bad rep. I'm relying on them to undo a lot of the damange my generation is going to do, if they haven't already started.
~WBGG
PS if anyone has more links pertaining to this, please publish them!
Re:A more delicate headline, please?
on
Scotty Scooped Up
·
· Score: 1
/agree and i'm not even a ST fan.
this is about a human being's wishes for his remains. even if he portrayed a beloved sci-fi character with a different name. i don't think its whining to not use these semantics. scoop is often equated with pet output. =(
i'd rather repen the unpoetic alliteration of the OP headline in favor of something respectful for a decent guy next go around.
i'll risk a little karma to brave the thought that/.'ers are mostly civilised.
Now see, my parents and many of their collegues wouldn't consider "grave robbers" and a lot of what you find in museums a product of authentic archaeology. (You can discredit most of the sciences if you look back on those that misused the knowledge of a field. Thats a cheap shot.) Archaeology branches off from anthropology and much of the study I saw was done with incredible respect to the cultures and peoples being studied. The approach was that if you disturb the culture, the environment, etc... you have destroyed your goal.
If one is careful, skillful and tolerant, unmotivated by power and greed, the social science goals can be achieved. No one has to sell out an artifact or a culture. Especially with technology evolving, museums need not sell their souls and pay out huge sums to treasure hunters that steal and sell to the highest bidders.
I can learn as much about a beautifully crafted Native American pot that will be kept behind glass, untouchable, in a museum from digital photography, and data modeling exhibits using affordable PC/Mac technology found in higher ed institutions. That way the pot remains where it should be, after careful study done with permission, data recording and hopefully no one is offended.
Of course, when science meets spirituality, you will always find conflict. You can only hope that cooler heads prevail. A respect for learning and an equal respect for culture balance out. It depends on your POV.
I just don't like blanket statements. I've met more archaeologists that were not grabbing anything to sell or put in museums. They were poor, hard-working scientists that loved their jobs and often funded their own science. Indiana Jones and that stacked lady from the videogame that was made into a bad movie starring Angelina Jolie are exceptions, hardly rules. If you're running through the halls of science looking for pirates and sell-outs, you can't just blame the archaeologists because they have shovels and mud on their hands!
Yeah I wondered why so many coins would be worth so much because it'd drive down collectibility by flooding the market. I'm with #1, the metal must have some value. I'm sure some coins will be purchased by collectors. The rest will end up melted down for their materials value? Of course #3 could easily be part of it. Never underestimate the marketing ability of a blockbuster film and greedy corporations.
Why are the ninjas taking so long? Is there a run on hamburgers this morning?
Hey, you're angry at someone else, but I don't ass-lick. I give respect where its earned. If you don't like Zonk fine. But don't call me a kiss-up just because I stand up for people I respect. When I issue a compliment or stand up for someone its genuine. You're basing your assement of *my* character on one post. Thats shallow. And this is OT. So lets agree to disagree about your feelings toward him and get back to pirate treasure.
Too bad Indi was neither a pirate, ninja or politician...
I agree though, I was raised by two pacific Archaeologists and they're not exactly fans of pirates either. Pot hunters, big corporations that fake the land and archaeological impact data requirements are pretty much pirates of a sort. They pillage and destroy with greed their soul goal, no diplomacy and guilt of the scientific data destroyed and peoples and cultures they've offended.
Too bad my parents are pacifists, it would have been cool to see them bust out a whip at Mesa Verde, CO when they busted a tourist swiping artifacts.
~WBGG
I hope this is in jest. Zonk is a stand up guy. Don't grief him in the middle of a discussion about an article he posted. Take it up with the proper channels. Have some civility and common sense please. Unless this was a friendly dig at a buddy, leave the angry sentiments to email instead of a public forum. Its just not approprate.
Even pirates and ninjas know better how to handle personality disputes, in a discrete manner.
Zonk, I got your back, whether you're a pirate guy or a ninja dude. Personal attacks in public forums are on the level of 3rd graders and the current presidental administration.
~ducks~
Yeah you could follow them, but there are hundreds if not thousands of these modern day pirate types that go looking for lost treasures of pirates of old. So you'd still be taking a huge chance.
I'm willing to bet that anyone who spends enough money on gear and time to go tracking down treasures worth that much and finally finds one isn't about to share it with some noob that follows them around. Pirates and those that seek their lost treasure probably aren't the sharing type. Think pillage etc...
As far as where the treasure ends up in international seas, I'm sure these guys are fast at what they do and making a case against them will be hard. The crime scene is under several hundred feet of water. Probably most countries have more pressing issues to deal with when it comes to their naval fleets. Picking on pirates just doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. Its not like they're running drugs.
just mho though. ask my sister she's the one with the law degree.
Not that I have anything against pirates. ~wink~ I'm just more of a ninja type lady!
Romwell (873455) posted: ...that pirates are better than ninjas. You never get to read about ninja treasure found underwater !
You never read about it, because no one ever catches ninjas! ~ninja grin~
I'd mod you up for informative if I could. This was a huge gripe I had with WoW. I haven't played in a year, but back then you were limited in ignores.
Also, you had no way to tell which people on the list had been permabanned and recreated. So periodically I'd have to just go through and take my chances on clearing out space for the new idiots.
I guess their code for the lists was hardcoded with the database or otherwise poorly written. It was never fixed while I played. The beta boards and player suggestion boards were full of this complaint. We suggested granting more ignores with level advancement, quests and just about anything you could think of--even eq.
haha. I understand the "u" and "ur" annoyance far too well. Maybe its because I was born just in time to see _Star Wars_ the first time it came out. I seem to have been instilled with this respect for grammar that some of the younger generations can't appreciate. I was worried about typing wpm on an actual type-writer in highschool though, they're concerned about texting without getting caught in class.
Slashdot Mirror
Before I focused my career 100% on the technology aspect, I helped with recruiting and interviews because it was the eaisest way to get promoted and stay technical but avoid the management track where I had to do employee reviews and firings. The seminars about interviews and recruiting tell the truth about "hiring demographics" or whatever the PC term for it is now.
I quit the recruiting ASAP though because applicants, including females, at the job fairs would actually admit to me they didn't want to be doing IT, but felt it was the best financial hope for their future.
It doesn't matter what career path you're on, if you're just in the interview stage and already admitting you don't want to do it, then I'm going to put your resume in the "NO" pile even if I smile and thank you for your time. Unhappy workers are not productive or good for other's morale.
Not all the women specifically mentioned why they didn't want to do IT. A few asked me up front if I had to deal with sexism or what it was like working for and with all men. I even remember one asking me if there were any technical women at the company. When I explained that I was actually one of them, that does recruiting part time she let loose and explicative and something about how I really break the typical stereotype of "technical women". (I was pretty PO'ed at this because we have some really hawt ladies that are very competant, but I kept her resume anyway.)
The OP's question is going to generate different answers. Especially with the generations of late. I wanted a job in IT that I enjoyed with enough compensation so that I could afford the enormous cost of living in the area I chose to live safely as a single female right out of college. Along with it I wasn't going to sacrifice any of my integrity.
recursion and lawyers?
two things that should not be in the same phrase...
I'm so relieved to see your post, and to see that its modded up as insightful in this discussion that is a tangent, but relevant to the discussion of the original topic.
I am an advocate for breaking down stigmas and stereotypes about mental health. There are too many misconceptions that Ritalin is an easy answer for ADD. (For clarity, ADD was renamed and so some people are using the term ADHD-Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder.) There are too many misconceptions about how many youth have clinical ADD. Its easier to give kids drugs or draw some sort of line and say this is how you parent, but easy isn't necessarily right for everyone.
I had a really great source to cite that would have backed up your post that has unfortunately gone offline in the last month. It contained documents about how there were preschools and private schools in California several years ago that required kids to be on Ritalin and similar drugs to get in. Mental health and youth advocacy groups lobbied and worked with the CA legislature to pass public policy to help end this kind of extreme {I'm at a loss of what to call this}. I can provide a link to CHADD's public policy page which shows some more localized efforts. I'm also going to post the information about ADHD/ADD from NIMH because I think its very comprehensive about a misunderstood disorder. The best way to treat ignorance is with education.
My sister is an ADA for juvenile defenders in a large metropolitan area, her work backs up your statements too. Thanks for posting advocacy and tolerance!
When I was her age the best equivalent way to waste time communicating with friends I can think of was writing notes. (There were intricate ways of folding them too.) I remember being thrilled when my dad brought a shredder home and I could dispose of all the evidence of immature things my friends had written about each other in case I got hit by a bus before I could tear up my daily notes.
On my best note-passing days though I think I only used 7 notebook pages. Also, I only wrote notes during school. Granted way back then the US Postal Service was a bit more efficient than days of late and you could ride your bike to anywhere in my hometown in 5 minutes.
Then again, I didn't want to do that math to figure out the rate of texting you did. I guess my laziness could be a lifetime trait, which would account for my low note quota. I'd rather talk to my friends than write notes or text them, today, back then, etc... She would pwn me. Ha ha.
my brain almost stopped me from reading this in time, not quite. i have to work on those cognitive behavioral skills more! i refuse to conform to the text language society!
as for phone bills that are out of hand. didn't we deal with this when 1-900 number chat lines came out in the 80s or 90s or something? history is a repetative cycle we either learn from or fail to do so. no sympathy here.
i can't remember the latin phrase for anything in excess is idiotic.
I've been out of the loop on web programming too long. I had no idea anyone still used Javascript. I guess I should remove the really dusty first edition O'Reilly JS book from my shelf or use the company funded "Obsolete" stamp.
~sigh~ Let me guess, no one writes html in vi either anymore? This is what happens when you work in offices with no windows or internet connections.
Please someone tell me we're not still using Pascal, Lisp?!? I mean I know there is still Fortran code around that has to be maintained but for the love of John Hughes' films and all that is sacred!1!!
~pulls self back together~
I'm sorry about getting OT, won't happen again. I'm just taking my first vacation in a spell...had forgotten there was sunlight, hawt chicks and stuff.
You must be new here.
/.ing while most of you were still in diapers! Cmdrtaco's shell was still growing and CowboyNeal, well I'll just keep that to myself.
/. uid might be lower than yours...
~gasp~
I take offense, I've been around for the long haul, kiddo! I was
Don't mistake a bit of respect for noobility. My
With upper management so young, there might be some decent perks. Maybe snacktime, naps, and cartoon netwoork and console games in the breakrooms. (Naptime especially if the parents are overbearing.) I could always go for on the job naptime and ice cream Wednesdays at Coldstone.
*shrug* never worked for someone younger than me
My personal rule of thumb is to not invest anthing in companies unless the CEO is at least old enough to buy me a Guinness.
So you're saying this is like those overally agressive soccer moms and dads. Or even worse the parents that enter their kids in those extreme beauty contests at very young ages--except its super young CEO's and business execs? I'm only a kitty parent but I wouldn't even do that to my feline.
If theres proof to that then um...creepy. Someone attach the "scary" tag. I know you need a gimmick these days, but isn't anything sacred?
I couldn't get on to the site elementeo.com for whatever reason. It will be interesting to see if these are whiz kids or just pawns.
I can't find the link to it on Scott Adam's site, and out of courtesy to him I won't link it without his permission. If you've followed Dilbert for at least the last ~13 or so years, it was an early one. Something to the effect of an older engineer giving a younger guy a coin with a dialogue box that said "Here's a nickle, kid. Go get a real operating system."
I only think of that because theres so little info in the article about the actual company, so I can't comment positivily on these smart kids innovative skills.
I actually am rather impressed by the youth of today. They get a bad rep. I'm relying on them to undo a lot of the damange my generation is going to do, if they haven't already started.
~WBGG
PS if anyone has more links pertaining to this, please publish them!
/agree and i'm not even a ST fan.
/.'ers are mostly civilised.
this is about a human being's wishes for his remains. even if he portrayed a beloved sci-fi character with a different name. i don't think its whining to not use these semantics. scoop is often equated with pet output. =(
i'd rather repen the unpoetic alliteration of the OP headline in favor of something respectful for a decent guy next go around.
i'll risk a little karma to brave the thought that
Now see, my parents and many of their collegues wouldn't consider "grave robbers" and a lot of what you find in museums a product of authentic archaeology. (You can discredit most of the sciences if you look back on those that misused the knowledge of a field. Thats a cheap shot.) Archaeology branches off from anthropology and much of the study I saw was done with incredible respect to the cultures and peoples being studied. The approach was that if you disturb the culture, the environment, etc... you have destroyed your goal.
If one is careful, skillful and tolerant, unmotivated by power and greed, the social science goals can be achieved. No one has to sell out an artifact or a culture. Especially with technology evolving, museums need not sell their souls and pay out huge sums to treasure hunters that steal and sell to the highest bidders.
I can learn as much about a beautifully crafted Native American pot that will be kept behind glass, untouchable, in a museum from digital photography, and data modeling exhibits using affordable PC/Mac technology found in higher ed institutions. That way the pot remains where it should be, after careful study done with permission, data recording and hopefully no one is offended.
Of course, when science meets spirituality, you will always find conflict. You can only hope that cooler heads prevail. A respect for learning and an equal respect for culture balance out. It depends on your POV.
I just don't like blanket statements. I've met more archaeologists that were not grabbing anything to sell or put in museums. They were poor, hard-working scientists that loved their jobs and often funded their own science. Indiana Jones and that stacked lady from the videogame that was made into a bad movie starring Angelina Jolie are exceptions, hardly rules. If you're running through the halls of science looking for pirates and sell-outs, you can't just blame the archaeologists because they have shovels and mud on their hands!
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people." ~V, V For Vendetta (2005)
I still believe in my country's Bill of Rights.
Yeah I wondered why so many coins would be worth so much because it'd drive down collectibility by flooding the market. I'm with #1, the metal must have some value. I'm sure some coins will be purchased by collectors. The rest will end up melted down for their materials value? Of course #3 could easily be part of it. Never underestimate the marketing ability of a blockbuster film and greedy corporations.
Why are the ninjas taking so long? Is there a run on hamburgers this morning?
Hey, you're angry at someone else, but I don't ass-lick. I give respect where its earned. If you don't like Zonk fine. But don't call me a kiss-up just because I stand up for people I respect. When I issue a compliment or stand up for someone its genuine. You're basing your assement of *my* character on one post. Thats shallow. And this is OT. So lets agree to disagree about your feelings toward him and get back to pirate treasure.
Too bad Indi was neither a pirate, ninja or politician...
I agree though, I was raised by two pacific Archaeologists and they're not exactly fans of pirates either. Pot hunters, big corporations that fake the land and archaeological impact data requirements are pretty much pirates of a sort. They pillage and destroy with greed their soul goal, no diplomacy and guilt of the scientific data destroyed and peoples and cultures they've offended.
Too bad my parents are pacifists, it would have been cool to see them bust out a whip at Mesa Verde, CO when they busted a tourist swiping artifacts.
~WBGG
I hope this is in jest. Zonk is a stand up guy. Don't grief him in the middle of a discussion about an article he posted. Take it up with the proper channels. Have some civility and common sense please. Unless this was a friendly dig at a buddy, leave the angry sentiments to email instead of a public forum. Its just not approprate.
Even pirates and ninjas know better how to handle personality disputes, in a discrete manner.
Zonk, I got your back, whether you're a pirate guy or a ninja dude. Personal attacks in public forums are on the level of 3rd graders and the current presidental administration. ~ducks~
Yeah you could follow them, but there are hundreds if not thousands of these modern day pirate types that go looking for lost treasures of pirates of old. So you'd still be taking a huge chance.
I'm willing to bet that anyone who spends enough money on gear and time to go tracking down treasures worth that much and finally finds one isn't about to share it with some noob that follows them around. Pirates and those that seek their lost treasure probably aren't the sharing type. Think pillage etc...
As far as where the treasure ends up in international seas, I'm sure these guys are fast at what they do and making a case against them will be hard. The crime scene is under several hundred feet of water. Probably most countries have more pressing issues to deal with when it comes to their naval fleets. Picking on pirates just doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. Its not like they're running drugs.
just mho though. ask my sister she's the one with the law degree.
Not that I have anything against pirates. ~wink~ I'm just more of a ninja type lady!
You never read about it, because no one ever catches ninjas! ~ninja grin~
I believe its being handled by not giving away the gps coordinates in a very large ocean until all the treasure has been acquired.
You'd be looking for a needle in several large haystacks to find the actual divers that are harvesting it.
Can't let pirate treasure get away!
argh!
a little humor break from off the mark
I'd mod you up for informative if I could. This was a huge gripe I had with WoW. I haven't played in a year, but back then you were limited in ignores.
Also, you had no way to tell which people on the list had been permabanned and recreated. So periodically I'd have to just go through and take my chances on clearing out space for the new idiots.
I guess their code for the lists was hardcoded with the database or otherwise poorly written. It was never fixed while I played. The beta boards and player suggestion boards were full of this complaint. We suggested granting more ignores with level advancement, quests and just about anything you could think of--even eq.
haha. I understand the "u" and "ur" annoyance far too well. Maybe its because I was born just in time to see _Star Wars_ the first time it came out. I seem to have been instilled with this respect for grammar that some of the younger generations can't appreciate. I was worried about typing wpm on an actual type-writer in highschool though, they're concerned about texting without getting caught in class.