$1,100,000 is hardly enough money to get the stationery and logos printed up. It hardly constitutes the "funding" of a program.
I think it's sad how the US government can print up trillions of dollars to reward select banks and companies like GM by taking away the consequences of screwing up, and yet they keep NASA worse than starving by giving them these paltry amounts. Either shut it down, or fund it properly. These halfway measures are just an utter waste of money.
China cannot stop buying dollars in the short term even if they want to.
Not sure how that part works, but I will concede the point. You obviously know more about it than me.
Won't happen any time soon. The dollar is the world's de-facto reserve currency.
Gold used to be the de facto currency, and coming off the gold standard didn't derail the world. I don't see why dropping the dollar would. Of course it would screw up the US in a major way, but it wouldn't be a global catastrophe.
Which interest rate, out of curiosity, are you referring to? Currencies don't have interest rates.
No, but central banks do. Interest rates affect a lot of things - demand for the currency for a start. Why do you think everyone was borrowing money in Japanese Yen (at almost 0%) to invest in New Zealand Dollars (at around 6%) until a few years back? These carry trades are a simple way to make free money. Raising interest rates causes people to prefer that currency, as investors usually seek out the highest rate of return - of course there are other factors (like political and economic stability). As an individual or corporation with a lot of money to park, my duty is to seek out the best rate of return for the least risk. Before the answer was almost automatic - US T-bills. But now with the American economic and political system in doubt-?
I have no idea where you got this idea or what you are referring to. I'm pretty sure the US banks have a very good idea who they have loaned to.
Don't take my word for it. Why do you think Bank of America halted all foreclosures? Out of the kindness of their hearts? Because they want to do good? There is a serious problem here - if people are allowed to get away with not paying their mortgages the economy will fold. And if banks are allowed to take away people's homes without providing the necessary documentation, well I don't want to think about that, either.
No one invests in T-bills to get a big return.
I agree. Risk is proportional to reward, and T-bills are supposed to be the least risky of all. However T-bills today actually provide a negative return when you account for inflation (and not that government-massaged number the US government pushes out as inflation, REAL inflation). Why should I exchange my money for a piece of paper that guarantees me a loss, backed by a government that does nothing but print more money (accelerating inflation and destroying the value of the underlying currency) during the time my money will be "locked up"? Plus, why should I buy T-bills today when interest rate expectations for tomorrow are for increased rates? It makes more sense to wait (or buy short term notes).
Maybe not - employers will always have to feed their employees. So long as they stay working they should do better than those that (for whatever reason) are not working because wages will have to at least try to keep up with hyperinflation, etc. The trick is to have the specialized skills that don't become obsolete in a new, struggling society. But yeah, someone like me who doesn't work, and you who expects to retire on your savings, we're vulnerable to having our wealth disappear suddenly without so much as a puff of smoke.
I console myself with the fact that I have guns and a lot of land, some gold, and my money is mostly in commodity dollar currencies, but these are interesting times indeed. Suddenly the future is uncertain, and I don't know what to do.
Regardless, let's assume that 100% of rich people have sunk their entire wealth into the stock market as of today's date in 2006. The DJIA on that date was at 12,002.
Today, the DJIA closed at 10,978.
OK, so they've had their money in the stock market, haven't been able to touch it for 4 years, and have the "same" (I'm being very generous) amount of money as they had 4 years ago? No I wouldn't tax them, I would think - poor them because actually they have lost money due to inflation and due to the diminished purchasing power of the US dollar (people often think these two are one and the same). Not to mention opportunity costs.
Anyway you went from there to some rant about anti-environmentalism or something: I fail to see what any of this brings to the discussion.
You missed the dozen posts about how rare earth is actually very abundant.
There is sand everywhere, too. Yet somehow people pay hundreds of dollars for microchips. The point is that China is pretty much the place where rare earths are refined. And while the Chinese refineries may not be the best, and they break down every so often, and people die there, they produce a lot more lithium than any given imaginary refinery anywhere else.
Once upon a time, the oil producing countries said
Yes, I actually lived through the '73 oil crisis. I thought it worked pretty well at the time. I remember prices before and after the crisis, too. I don't believe Saudi Arabia cheating on the embargo and selling oil behind the rest of OPEC's back should be considered as a great US victory, however. Unless of course you claim that it was actually due to the CIA...
coming in here portraying the Chinese government like a bunch of heroes
Not at all. However there's this blasé attitude towards China among Americans - well it's towards pretty much the rest of the world. But I feel that if anyone can put America in its place, it could well be China in a few more years. You say 80% of Chinese are poor peasants. For argument's sake, however, I challenge you to work out what 20% of 1.3 billion people is - (ie a little less than the entire US) - and consider these are only the rich, educated Chinese... If that doesn't make you say "uh oh", I don't know what will.
And they also seem to be committed to keeping their currency artificially undervalued, thereby holding the exchange rate down.
This just makes the US more and more dependent because every day that goes by, the politicians in their complacency think "oh, business as usual" and calmly forget that China is HOLDING it down. The truth of the matter is that America is being mis-managed. Allowing said mis-management to continue, intentionally or no, does not make America stronger it makes it weaker. But now America has banks and other corporations that know they are "too big to fail", and suddenly there are no consequences to mis-management anymore because Uncle Sam will always be there to print some more dollar bills. Or so they think.
I live outside the US and I am seeing first hand what is happening to exchange rates. The dollar is plummeting (because no one believes in its value anymore). This is really hurting exporters because they can't pay their workers. I can imagine that at one point something will have to give and the price of your bananas or whatever will have to go up. That means inflation for you - which the US government will try to hide, but so many cards are already missing from the US house of cards that it's not going to take much to cause another panic. May's flash crash was a beautiful example of how close we still are to the cliff edge.
The US military relies heavily on combined arms, with command and control via satellite communications. The Chinese have anti-satellite missiles. So does the US - but oops, China isn't all that dependent on satellites anyway.
The US military has relied for years on the concept of power projection through carrier battle groups. Unfortunately the huge advantage of a carrier group had in World War 2 was stealth - the enemy had to find the carriers first, then launch a counter attack. While US carriers may be effective supporting combat in Somalia or Iraq, they have yet to be tested against modern aviation and modern anti-ship missiles. Oh and by the way, the Chinese have invested very heavily in subs - not good for much except to sink carriers. Carriers cannot as yet project power from the bottom of the sea.
And if a few thousand Taliban can keep the US busy for 9 years, imagine what a billion Chinese can do.
They just create it, like they have been doing so far. The biggest purchaser of US treasuries is (drumroll) - the US government.
Now I'm not saying this is a good idea (it's not. Keynes may have said "in the long run we're all dead", but if you act irresponsibly you can be dead in the short run too). But it's the status quo and has been for a long time. Getting the money is never a problem for the US government. It's maintaining the value of the currency that's the problem.
Yes, the top 1% of income tripled from 1980 to 2006
Funny how you stopped counting in 2006. Right before the stock market started to plunge. I wanna know what happened to the rich people between 2006 and 2009...
Isn't it great when you can pick and choose the statistics to support your arguments? You wouldn't happen to work in the global warming research field, would you?
Their imagined leverage is far higher than their actual real life leverage.
I think you are confusing China with North Korea. I think they have more "real life" leverage than you think. This is not Iraq or Afghanistan, this is a country with a population greater than the US, Europe and Russia combined. A country with a united leadership, 5th generation stealth fighters and nuclear weapons. A country that is just dying to be recognized as a super-power.
In the span of about a week, they're managing to piss off their ENTIRE rare earth market all at once
It's their market - they can afford to do what they want. Where else are people going to get their lithium? Whine away - how much did you say you needed?
Even oil-producing nations don't have as much leverage as China is acting like it has here.
Oil producing nations spend their wealth on Ferraris and Mercedes and fancy buildings in the middle of the desert and man-made islands in the Persian Gulf. Apart from the oil and the commerce that comes with the oil, there is nothing. China, on the other hand, has a booming industry, a huge FED population, and massive infrastructure plans for the future. Did I mention they have a united, focused government?
Joe Average is probably never going to notice, at least not over the near term
Of course he is - because Joe Average is living on borrowed money and has been for a while. So when prices suddenly triple - because of exchange rate, tariffs or outright embargo (meaning that the goods have to be brought in from say Mexico, with extra middle-men involved), Joe Average is going to complain. Loudly. And this whole bread and circuses charade that has been lulling the American public to sleep in a terrorism induced haze of "republican vs democrat" "liberal vs conservative" "USA we're the ONLY superpower" is going to come crashing down. And politicians' heads (on either side of the "aisle") are going to roll.
Considering that the US needs China to buy its public debt,
China doesn't have to buy US debt. Especially if commodities start trading in something other than US dollars. After all, why the hell would you support the dollar today? The interest rate sucks, the US government is spending more than ever before, and the US economy (which has been in the tank for a while now) continues to struggle. Plus add this to the fact that US banks have no idea who they have loaned money to - no, there are far wiser places to put your money today than US treasury notes. In fact, almost anywhere BUT US T-bills will get you a better return.
The US is in for a very, very rude awakening in my opinion. Gross incompetence has been demonstrated on both a government, military and economic level. I'm just glad I don't live there.
This is not true at all, although your attempt to turn this into a "class struggle" has been noted.
The government is actually whoring itself out to only a select few "rich" people. There are quite a few wealthy individuals that want nothing to do with the government, have not lobbied the government, have not contributed to political campaigns, etc. Tarring everyone with the same brush merely cements the foundation of your argument in ignorance.
"They have don't nothing but profit on the suffering and labors of others. They are sociopathic leaches."
And what have you done, other than what you were told? Wealthy individuals have organized labor and productivity to create things. Yes, they make money by doing it - but left to your own devices you'd be sitting in someone else's field eating their crops. You need your boss as much as he needs you, you fucking ingrate. If you don't like what you do and feel you have something worthwhile to contribute to society then feel free to get out there and prove yourself. Offering to smash the entire world is not productive at all, especially when you start dreaming that by this an idiot like yourself would suddenly find himself "in charge".
You do realize that the internet is an international community, and pointing out certain actors in your local village really fails to convey any meaning to that far greater number of people who really don't know or care who this person you mention is, right? Believe it or not there are more people in the world who don't know this Glenn Beck than people who do.
We never had "Second Life: The Movie"... I think only nerds and pedophiles actually played second life, whereas facebook is full of middle-aged divorcees suffering from empty nest syndrome.
I never understand why society is so ready to suck the cock of someone who invented a new way to waste time, while failing to recognize the people who actually contribute to progress. Turn on CNN - Facebook stories. Read slashdot - Facebook stories. Go to the movies - Facebook the fucking movie.
What a fucking coincidence. And people never realize how easy it is to buy a little publicity, especially with all the Bad Things (tm) Facebook has been doing lately, and especially when you have a lot of money. Nope, the sheep just lap it up. Zuckerberg is a GOD! Put him on an altar!
Just declare the IP a state secret. The market value is then zero, as the company cant sell it legally. Buy it from the company for 1 cent. Then classify the contract as top secret. If the company complains, send the people to jail or gitmo.
Which would make people seriously consider moving to Venezuela because at least Hugo Chavez doesn't pretend to be what he's not - see what I said about appearing like a "free" country?
"Know it all" scientists? Come to think of it, collectively we probably do know a great deal more than you do, dipshit. Get the fuck off my slashdot and stop trying to turn this site into yet another fucking tabloid.
Slashdot Mirror
Slashdot has just discovered entropy, apparently.
$1,100,000 is hardly enough money to get the stationery and logos printed up. It hardly constitutes the "funding" of a program.
I think it's sad how the US government can print up trillions of dollars to reward select banks and companies like GM by taking away the consequences of screwing up, and yet they keep NASA worse than starving by giving them these paltry amounts. Either shut it down, or fund it properly. These halfway measures are just an utter waste of money.
China cannot stop buying dollars in the short term even if they want to.
Not sure how that part works, but I will concede the point. You obviously know more about it than me.
Won't happen any time soon. The dollar is the world's de-facto reserve currency.
Gold used to be the de facto currency, and coming off the gold standard didn't derail the world. I don't see why dropping the dollar would. Of course it would screw up the US in a major way, but it wouldn't be a global catastrophe.
Which interest rate, out of curiosity, are you referring to? Currencies don't have interest rates.
No, but central banks do. Interest rates affect a lot of things - demand for the currency for a start. Why do you think everyone was borrowing money in Japanese Yen (at almost 0%) to invest in New Zealand Dollars (at around 6%) until a few years back? These carry trades are a simple way to make free money. Raising interest rates causes people to prefer that currency, as investors usually seek out the highest rate of return - of course there are other factors (like political and economic stability). As an individual or corporation with a lot of money to park, my duty is to seek out the best rate of return for the least risk. Before the answer was almost automatic - US T-bills. But now with the American economic and political system in doubt-?
I have no idea where you got this idea or what you are referring to. I'm pretty sure the US banks have a very good idea who they have loaned to.
Don't take my word for it. Why do you think Bank of America halted all foreclosures? Out of the kindness of their hearts? Because they want to do good? There is a serious problem here - if people are allowed to get away with not paying their mortgages the economy will fold. And if banks are allowed to take away people's homes without providing the necessary documentation, well I don't want to think about that, either.
No one invests in T-bills to get a big return.
I agree. Risk is proportional to reward, and T-bills are supposed to be the least risky of all. However T-bills today actually provide a negative return when you account for inflation (and not that government-massaged number the US government pushes out as inflation, REAL inflation). Why should I exchange my money for a piece of paper that guarantees me a loss, backed by a government that does nothing but print more money (accelerating inflation and destroying the value of the underlying currency) during the time my money will be "locked up"? Plus, why should I buy T-bills today when interest rate expectations for tomorrow are for increased rates? It makes more sense to wait (or buy short term notes).
But it's going to be even worse for my kids
Maybe not - employers will always have to feed their employees. So long as they stay working they should do better than those that (for whatever reason) are not working because wages will have to at least try to keep up with hyperinflation, etc. The trick is to have the specialized skills that don't become obsolete in a new, struggling society. But yeah, someone like me who doesn't work, and you who expects to retire on your savings, we're vulnerable to having our wealth disappear suddenly without so much as a puff of smoke.
I console myself with the fact that I have guns and a lot of land, some gold, and my money is mostly in commodity dollar currencies, but these are interesting times indeed. Suddenly the future is uncertain, and I don't know what to do.
Regardless, let's assume that 100% of rich people have sunk their entire wealth into the stock market as of today's date in 2006. The DJIA on that date was at 12,002.
Today, the DJIA closed at 10,978.
OK, so they've had their money in the stock market, haven't been able to touch it for 4 years, and have the "same" (I'm being very generous) amount of money as they had 4 years ago? No I wouldn't tax them, I would think - poor them because actually they have lost money due to inflation and due to the diminished purchasing power of the US dollar (people often think these two are one and the same). Not to mention opportunity costs.
Anyway you went from there to some rant about anti-environmentalism or something: I fail to see what any of this brings to the discussion.
You missed the dozen posts about how rare earth is actually very abundant.
There is sand everywhere, too. Yet somehow people pay hundreds of dollars for microchips. The point is that China is pretty much the place where rare earths are refined. And while the Chinese refineries may not be the best, and they break down every so often, and people die there, they produce a lot more lithium than any given imaginary refinery anywhere else.
Once upon a time, the oil producing countries said
Yes, I actually lived through the '73 oil crisis. I thought it worked pretty well at the time. I remember prices before and after the crisis, too. I don't believe Saudi Arabia cheating on the embargo and selling oil behind the rest of OPEC's back should be considered as a great US victory, however. Unless of course you claim that it was actually due to the CIA...
coming in here portraying the Chinese government like a bunch of heroes
Not at all. However there's this blasé attitude towards China among Americans - well it's towards pretty much the rest of the world. But I feel that if anyone can put America in its place, it could well be China in a few more years. You say 80% of Chinese are poor peasants. For argument's sake, however, I challenge you to work out what 20% of 1.3 billion people is - (ie a little less than the entire US) - and consider these are only the rich, educated Chinese... If that doesn't make you say "uh oh", I don't know what will.
And they also seem to be committed to keeping their currency artificially undervalued, thereby holding the exchange rate down.
This just makes the US more and more dependent because every day that goes by, the politicians in their complacency think "oh, business as usual" and calmly forget that China is HOLDING it down. The truth of the matter is that America is being mis-managed. Allowing said mis-management to continue, intentionally or no, does not make America stronger it makes it weaker. But now America has banks and other corporations that know they are "too big to fail", and suddenly there are no consequences to mis-management anymore because Uncle Sam will always be there to print some more dollar bills. Or so they think.
I live outside the US and I am seeing first hand what is happening to exchange rates. The dollar is plummeting (because no one believes in its value anymore). This is really hurting exporters because they can't pay their workers. I can imagine that at one point something will have to give and the price of your bananas or whatever will have to go up. That means inflation for you - which the US government will try to hide, but so many cards are already missing from the US house of cards that it's not going to take much to cause another panic. May's flash crash was a beautiful example of how close we still are to the cliff edge.
I challenge you to look up asymmetric warfare.
The US military relies heavily on combined arms, with command and control via satellite communications.
The Chinese have anti-satellite missiles.
So does the US - but oops, China isn't all that dependent on satellites anyway.
The US military has relied for years on the concept of power projection through carrier battle groups.
Unfortunately the huge advantage of a carrier group had in World War 2 was stealth - the enemy had to find the carriers first, then launch a counter attack. While US carriers may be effective supporting combat in Somalia or Iraq, they have yet to be tested against modern aviation and modern anti-ship missiles.
Oh and by the way, the Chinese have invested very heavily in subs - not good for much except to sink carriers.
Carriers cannot as yet project power from the bottom of the sea.
And if a few thousand Taliban can keep the US busy for 9 years, imagine what a billion Chinese can do.
They just create it, like they have been doing so far. The biggest purchaser of US treasuries is (drumroll) - the US government.
Now I'm not saying this is a good idea (it's not. Keynes may have said "in the long run we're all dead", but if you act irresponsibly you can be dead in the short run too). But it's the status quo and has been for a long time. Getting the money is never a problem for the US government. It's maintaining the value of the currency that's the problem.
Yes, the top 1% of income tripled from 1980 to 2006
Funny how you stopped counting in 2006. Right before the stock market started to plunge. I wanna know what happened to the rich people between 2006 and 2009...
Isn't it great when you can pick and choose the statistics to support your arguments? You wouldn't happen to work in the global warming research field, would you?
Their imagined leverage is far higher than their actual real life leverage.
I think you are confusing China with North Korea. I think they have more "real life" leverage than you think. This is not Iraq or Afghanistan, this is a country with a population greater than the US, Europe and Russia combined. A country with a united leadership, 5th generation stealth fighters and nuclear weapons. A country that is just dying to be recognized as a super-power.
In the span of about a week, they're managing to piss off their ENTIRE rare earth market all at once
It's their market - they can afford to do what they want. Where else are people going to get their lithium? Whine away - how much did you say you needed?
Even oil-producing nations don't have as much leverage as China is acting like it has here.
Oil producing nations spend their wealth on Ferraris and Mercedes and fancy buildings in the middle of the desert and man-made islands in the Persian Gulf. Apart from the oil and the commerce that comes with the oil, there is nothing. China, on the other hand, has a booming industry, a huge FED population, and massive infrastructure plans for the future. Did I mention they have a united, focused government?
Joe Average is probably never going to notice, at least not over the near term
Of course he is - because Joe Average is living on borrowed money and has been for a while. So when prices suddenly triple - because of exchange rate, tariffs or outright embargo (meaning that the goods have to be brought in from say Mexico, with extra middle-men involved), Joe Average is going to complain. Loudly. And this whole bread and circuses charade that has been lulling the American public to sleep in a terrorism induced haze of "republican vs democrat" "liberal vs conservative" "USA we're the ONLY superpower" is going to come crashing down. And politicians' heads (on either side of the "aisle") are going to roll.
Considering that the US needs China to buy its public debt,
China doesn't have to buy US debt. Especially if commodities start trading in something other than US dollars. After all, why the hell would you support the dollar today? The interest rate sucks, the US government is spending more than ever before, and the US economy (which has been in the tank for a while now) continues to struggle. Plus add this to the fact that US banks have no idea who they have loaned money to - no, there are far wiser places to put your money today than US treasury notes. In fact, almost anywhere BUT US T-bills will get you a better return.
The US is in for a very, very rude awakening in my opinion. Gross incompetence has been demonstrated on both a government, military and economic level. I'm just glad I don't live there.
or one who will be against the wall too when this shit comes.
No I won't - because I won't be alive.
This is not true at all, although your attempt to turn this into a "class struggle" has been noted.
The government is actually whoring itself out to only a select few "rich" people. There are quite a few wealthy individuals that want nothing to do with the government, have not lobbied the government, have not contributed to political campaigns, etc. Tarring everyone with the same brush merely cements the foundation of your argument in ignorance.
"They have don't nothing but profit on the suffering and labors of others. They are sociopathic leaches."
And what have you done, other than what you were told? Wealthy individuals have organized labor and productivity to create things. Yes, they make money by doing it - but left to your own devices you'd be sitting in someone else's field eating their crops. You need your boss as much as he needs you, you fucking ingrate. If you don't like what you do and feel you have something worthwhile to contribute to society then feel free to get out there and prove yourself. Offering to smash the entire world is not productive at all, especially when you start dreaming that by this an idiot like yourself would suddenly find himself "in charge".
You do realize that the internet is an international community, and pointing out certain actors in your local village really fails to convey any meaning to that far greater number of people who really don't know or care who this person you mention is, right? Believe it or not there are more people in the world who don't know this Glenn Beck than people who do.
At least it's Western Digital, because Seagate drives sure suck lately (looks at the stack of dead Seagate drives).
We never had "Second Life: The Movie"... I think only nerds and pedophiles actually played second life, whereas facebook is full of middle-aged divorcees suffering from empty nest syndrome.
I never understand why society is so ready to suck the cock of someone who invented a new way to waste time, while failing to recognize the people who actually contribute to progress. Turn on CNN - Facebook stories. Read slashdot - Facebook stories. Go to the movies - Facebook the fucking movie.
What a fucking coincidence. And people never realize how easy it is to buy a little publicity, especially with all the Bad Things (tm) Facebook has been doing lately, and especially when you have a lot of money. Nope, the sheep just lap it up. Zuckerberg is a GOD! Put him on an altar!
Et tu, slashdot?
I remember that Nintendo was much better than the Fairchild gaming system I had at the time.
Just declare the IP a state secret. The market value is then zero, as the company cant sell it legally. Buy it from the company for 1 cent. Then classify the contract as top secret. If the company complains, send the people to jail or gitmo.
Which would make people seriously consider moving to Venezuela because at least Hugo Chavez doesn't pretend to be what he's not - see what I said about appearing like a "free" country?
"Know it all" scientists? Come to think of it, collectively we probably do know a great deal more than you do, dipshit. Get the fuck off my slashdot and stop trying to turn this site into yet another fucking tabloid.
He can't force congress to do anything,
No, that's Nancy Pelosi's job...
You still need to pay for eminent domain. If you want to maintain the appearance of being a "free country", at any rate.
Rupert Murdoch is 79. He can't live forever.