Slashdot Mirror
Ontario School Bans Wi-Fi
St. Vincent Euphrasia elementary school in Meaford, Ont. is the latest Canadian school to decide to save its students from the harmful effects of Wi-Fi by banning it. Schools from universities on down have a history of banning Wi-Fi in Ontario. As usual, health officials and know-it-all scientists have called the move ridiculous. Health Canada has released a statement saying, "Wi-Fi is the second most prevalent form of wireless technology next to cell phones. It is widely used across Canada in schools, offices, coffee shops, personal dwellings, as well as countless other locations. Health Canada continues to reassure Canadians that the radiofrequency energy emitted from Wi-Fi equipment is extremely low and is not associated with any health problems."
This makes sense now! It's a preemptive action in preparation for the time when these people discover the largest source of radiation near Earth!
People refuse to do things that their doctors say are safe!
For our next story people insist that the things doctors say are bad for you are actually the best things to do ever!
Good call... might also have to ban them from cell phones, radios, microwaves, and just about anything else that requires electricity.
What's even more ridiculous is the loaded wording of the summary.
I put on my robe and tin-foil hat.
This may, in fact, be a rational decision by the school's administration. While the health dangers due to wifi may not be real, the (often irrational) fear that some people (e.g. parents) have of wifi is, unfortunately, very real. If enough people are sufficiently afraid, and their fear is causing a great deal of difficulty, banning wifi may be the most straightforward solution, especially if wifi isn't mission-critical for that particular school.
I like this quote: "Parents voted to protect their children's health and plug the computers back in with hardwires" however the picture from ctv.ca shows a bunch of students with iPads.
How DARE you, Sir! Do not forget the New Tea Party of US and A. Now those are some stupid fucks!
This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
Whoa. Don't have an aneurysm or something dude. You got really mad there
The world is how you make it
I have to wonder if they are also banning microwave ovens. The ISM frequency range used by WiFi is unlicensed because it is the same frequency used by microwave ovens, and so is full of junk and interference.
So they want someone to prove that it ISN'T harmful.
But is there any proof that it IS harmful?
Sure, it's normal to ban something if it's been proven to be harmful, but I can't think of anything that hasn't been banned because there's no proof that it isn't harmful.
Why is this edit box so god dang narrow?
Everyone knows that we are running out of IPV4 addresses, and as this address space fills up, the killer rays built into the WiFi routers becomes ever more dangerous. Sooner they will be even more dangerous than cell phones. We need to kill off as many IPV4 addresses as possible, in order to save the children!
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
As usual, Health Canada gets it wrong.
It's not that the signal is low energy, it's that the radiation is not at a frequency that can do any damage.
They could boost the power to the point where it boiled the water in your cells. That's what it would take to do damage, because the wavelength is too long to break chemical bonds. That's the neat thing about quantum mechanics; if one photon can't do any damage, neither can a thousand photons.
I'm a Programmer. That's one level above Software Engineer and one level below Engineer.
won't somebody please think of the children! That is, how will they get their porn in school?
The Canadian government is saying "Whoa, seriously, people, wi-fi won't kill you."
It's the crazy admin folk in charge of these specific schools that are making the rest of us look bad.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
While the health argument is nonsense, there are a lot of very good reasons to ban wifi in public schools. If the school doesn't have a laptop policy then the students probably shouldn't use them, too much to go wrong, both on a support end and on the student effectively using the tools side of things. I went to both public and highschool in ontario, admittedly, quite a few years ago, but there wasn't really any time except maybe lunch that we would have had anywhere suitable to want a wifi connection anyway. You were either in class, and supposed to be paying attention to the front of the room, or on your way home. And if you actually needed internet access for something legitimate, well there were lots of computers around you had access to. Installing and running a wifi network if it doesn't fit with how the school operates seems unnecessary.
This school in question only goes to grade 6 it looks like. I sort of think that 10-11 year olds probably shouldn't have laptops at school, or smartphones or any of the other modern wifi connected gadgets which sap attention and productivity from the rest of us. They aren't really ready for that responsibility, both in value of stuff or in time management. Highschool might be different, but in public school you get a couple of 15 minute breaks, and some time at lunch, otherwise you aren't supposed to be there. In grade six they're still learning to measure angles with protractors and learning to guess the meanings of words they don't know (source: http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/elementary/grade6.html) . Looking up angle on wikipedia and finding formal definitions using trig functions seems like it's probably going to do more harm than good. Even if you want to argue a grade 6 kid might be ok with a laptop, grade 4 and 5 are pretty young to be using wireless devices on their own initiative.
On top of all that you get into issues of what has access to the network, and how do you enforce that policy, and if you're going to provide access how do you make it fair for students without the financial means to get laptops etc.
Like I say, in a school that only goes to grade 6 it's a bit different than the usual primary schools that go to grade 8 or a highschool or the like. 8 and 9 year old kids are still learning to write on lined paper, they aren't really ready for constant internet access, and by the time they are, they aren't at this school anyway.
I think the fear of wifi and just anything generating signals or god forbid magnetism is worse than the actual effects of it.
What about all the satellites beaming down radio waves at GHz frequencies? surely that does some harm? who's for a tinfoil umbrella?
I can see it now, parents suing for past 'damage' caused by wifi.
Anti-scientific 'ban everything' movements are the flipside of the pro-CO^2 believers. People who think they intuitively know more than those who study that field in particular who have research to back up their claims.
It's a failing of our education system that more people don't understand science, the concept. You don't need to understand all the branches of science. You just need to know that 'my kid complains of headaches at school' does not mean you can pin the blame on WiFi without any further tests.
This was probably caused by the same idiots that are trying to push non fluoridated water on us (http://www.waterloowatch.com/). Ontario for some reason seems inundated with quacks and people that think they know whats best for us recently regardless of their education.
I would say that goes to people with "creation museums" and those who have voted Pi to be three ... all Americans. Now go fuck yourself.
Why start now with regards to wi-fi?
Really it sounds like something you would hear about in some super "liberal" area of California or Santa Fe New Mexico. Some child has a miss aligned aura and Wifi is to blame. Poor kid had to get aromatherapy for a week to get back to normal.
Sorry Canada just glad it isn't us this time.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
You don't think kids should be allowed to use laptops and the best way to accomplish that is to ban wifi?
In other news, schoolitis has reached record infection rates; experts recommend an immediate quarantine for the infected.
"People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
OK /. help me match the list of irrational beliefs with the county.
Canadians think RF affects the body in a non-thermal way, which is hilarious.
South Koreans believe in fan death
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death
(North Koreans don't have the electricity to run the fans...)
USA has all kinds of irrational beliefs vaguely revolving around religion, abstinence education works, creation science etc.
Any other "funny" ones?
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
It sounds like they're using wifi as a shortcut to hook up the lab computers. No need to run a zillion cables, just drop a wireless router in the lab somewhere.
Having once wired my high school with ethernet, it actually sounds like an excellent idea. Even better when you consider that the ceiling tiles in my high school were made with asbestos.
To all the people who doubt there are people sentive to radio frenquencies, you would feel different if you could barely go outside without being bombarded with headaches. Its beyond me why there are idiots out there that think that if it dosent affect them, its perfectly safe.
If this was any other tech, one which has been thrown around with no real research for health effect like wifi, there would be a public outcry. But since the people whos lives it ruins are a small number, people dont care.
As far as I am concerned, if you dont know how these things affect people you need to pull your head out of your ass.
lets say you want to give every classroom in a school a computer. You can either run cable to every classroom and set up multiple drops so the computer can be in different places, or you can blanket the entire school in a wifi network.
Now sure, some schools had wires in place from before wifi was common, but if you were trying to retrofit an old school wifi would probably look pretty appealing.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
I'm from Meaford... There are many highly educated level headed people in the community.. unfortunately most no longer have children in the system. This school, i suspect, is now populated by the spawn of the "government mind control in flu shot, Illuminati, Capricorn one" crowd...
Oh yes, town is also full of retired hippies.. which is not a bad thing.
Try holding your AM radio close to your laptop (or desktop computer for that matter).
Right now the health effects of various kinds of EM fields or various kinds of modulations of fields,
if those health effects exist, appear to be below the threshold at which
our current population health studies can reliably detect the correlations or
causal effects.
So we are left in the uncomfortable position of saying "we don't know", and we don't even
have any well-founded probabilistic guesses.
When you are in a "we don't know" state about some purported causal connection, you either
have to study it more, with better and larger, and more expensive studies, or you have to just
live with a "we don't know" state.
The problem with "we don't know" states is that literally, your guess is as good as mine.
So here we have a case where there are clear benefits to a technology, and no proven health impacts,
but some people have concerns. If I were those parents, I would be much more concerned about
sugar & simple-carbohydrate poisoning effects of the kind of food and drinks the students are probably
consuming in and around school. That's something we can prove is going to kill a lot of them before
ripe old age.
Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
I say lets do an experiment. We'd have to be somewhat deceitful but lets get these people who are 'allergic' to RF into what we tell them is a RF quiet room. We could even employ props to make it seem as though it were. But the reality, we can bombard the room with RF while we have them fill out a questionaire on how they feel vis a vis RF illness. Betcha that they'd be hollering for joy that they're in an RF free space.
Tinfoil Hat!
I occasionally visit various schools to play badminton in the gym. The schools are on their own grounds and usually have one or two WiFi hotspots set up. Contrast that to downtown (Vancouver BC), where I walk around checking the iPod for WiFi hotspots and am usually in range of twenty or so. Compared to the downtown core (or even the suburbs where every house has it's own hotspot) schools are a relatively WiFi-free zone.
Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
I don't see a problem with a lack of wifi in schools (with an exception for College/University, and only in designated areas), but not because of any supposed medical reasons.
What reason would any grade-school kid need wifi access for, anyways? What device would a grade school kid have that would even have use for wifi? A laptop? Why would a grade school kid have one? Even if they did, what use would the make of it in school (on a regular enough basis to warrant a wifi network)? A wifi enabled cell phone? You don't need wifi to make a call or send a text, and the phone should be off during class anyways.
There are other legitimate reasons to ban wi-fi in schools besides health concerns, especially at lower grade levels. It is very hard to teach a classroom full of students who are IMing with their friends, checking their e-mail, and updating their Facebook page. Sometimes it is nice to allow students to use computers to work on class assignments or take notes without allowing them access to the global Internet.
Why does everyone always assume the nuttiest reasons for any decision that a school makes?
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
...if one photon can't do any damage, neither can a thousand photons.
Thats my philosophy on drinking!!!
... the new peanuts.
Have gnu, will travel.
I know some people will be "yay banned wifi" and all that jazz but if children are really getting sick, taking a stab in the dark would stop them from getting sick. I suspect the real problem is mold or poor airflow, but hey lets ban wifi because it makes our parents feel better, while our health problems continously get worse and last through adult years.
did you forget to take your meds?
I think every school in the province has had wired Ethernet connections in it for years. Wireless just adds access control issues.
The kids are all at home playing the PS3 and Wii and Xbox off a Wireless router and all have their own cellphones. Stupid parents seem to think School WiFi > Home WiFi.
The children are complaining about headaches while at school. There may really be something wrong with their environment. A responsible school official would look for issues relating to these symptoms. For example, there could be temperature issues, air quality issues, air pressure or insulation issues, background noise issues, vibrational issues, squeaky chalk boards etc. But likely it is due to a recent switch to energy efficient lighting. That is where I would look first. If they are using crappy lighting or have a noisy setting... try to resolve one of these issues in a single room and survey the kids to see if this provides any remedy.
Applying fear based pseudo-science is dangerous as it rejects finding real causes and will not help (likely hinder) their education.
This assumes there is a real quantifiable issue. ie: does this sound like a problem: "student gets headache while trying to learn new concepts in school?". The solution could be advil.
Tinfoil tuques, anyone?
Well, depending on how you define "prevalent", I'd say that radio and television are even more prevalent than Wi-Fi and cell phones. At any given location in Canada I think you're more likely to be within receiving range of a wireless radio or television signal than a Wi-Fi or cell phone signal.
iBurst Microwave tower in Craigavon link
Step 1: iBurst erects broadband microwave tower in community.
Step 2: Community forms a 'Task Force' for hearings on health complaints "several rash cases were presented in person and by photo... Headaches, nausea, tinnitus, dry burning itchy skins, gastric imbalances and totally disrupted sleep patterns, especially with some of the children". Residents give testimony that symptoms only subside when they leave the area of the tower, and symptoms return when they return to their homes around the tower.
Step 3: iBurst attends meeting and listens to documented health complaints with great interest, and responds Oh by the way, we turned the tower off more than 6 weeks ago. Idiots.
Find the witch! Burn the witch!
Find the witch! Burn the witch!
Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Burn the witch!
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
The college I went to: - Did not allow non school laptops to use the wifi. - In all my computer science courses was not allowed to bring my laptop to work and take notes (I brought it anyways). - Profs spied on kids, accessing usb drives etc without their knowledge using various tools - Removed all docking stations and network ports from open working areas - The list goes on from a school that calls itself an institute of technology. Nice
Where's the ban on Dihydrogen monoxide?
Don't they know how many it kills around the globe annually?!
"Dihydrogen Monoxide, or DHMO, is a colorless and odorless chemical that kills or maims thousands each year, primarily through accidental inhalation. It has also been revealed to be a causative agent in many environmental exposure incidents, industrial contaminations, automobile accidents, and property damage. The dollar amount losses caused, and the lives impacted, by the DHMO threat are virtually innumerable."
Won't somebody think of the children!
IIRC, there's actually a single crank going around and advising people to institute these bans. It's literally the same person behind it all.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
...I've met people from Meaford.
thehermit
lol why u mad thou?
This isn't about kids having laptops or smartphones in school. This is about the school infrastructure. The students wouldn't be on this network anyway. It's purely for the benefit of school administration.
Basically a bunch of their students claimed to have some obscure heatth issues (read Mommy, I dont wanna go to school cuz I feel sick). The parents went over the board with the issue... My bet is, most parent probably have wireless phones (2.4GHz, 5GHz) in the home... they say Happy are the Ignorants!
Tomorrow is another day...
Turn off the wifi for a month. DON'T tell anyone. If the headaches persist, it wasn't the wifi.
If we can't make it better, maybe we can make it worse.
some group has a moronathon like this.
Point out all the other "dangerous" things.
Ultraviolet from fluorescent lights.
Blue light hazard from LED lighting.
Electromagnetic radiation from the electrical wiring.
Cancer risk from cooked food. Milk, egg, wheat, etc. allergies from cafeteria food. Genetically modified food, antibiotics in meat and milk.
Chlorine and fluorine in the water.
Viruses from other students. Require that they all wear masks and put HEPA air filters everywhere.
Toxic chemicals used to produce synthetic fabrics. No synthetics. Pesticides used on cotton. Cruel and inhumane conditions on sheep farms. No wool or cotton.
Carcinogens in plastics. No plastic products in the school. No vinyl floors, no synthetic carpets. No varnished or painted wood products. No pesticides to kill the cockroaches. No cleaning chemicals used inside the building.
I still fail to see why wifi is even necessary in schools at all. Anyone who has worked in the education field knows almost all of the schools already have a sufficient wired connection for their computer labs and classrooms. The vast majority of the use on their schools wifi will become students connecting their phones to the access points so they can check their Facebook in class.
Some one give me a good reason why they need it. I don't support the "it's bad for your health" position, but I can't really see any positive benefits of the wifi either.
As a resident of Ontario, I can tell you that lately there has been a huge media campaign against WIFI. It seems every time I flip the channel to a news network they are interviewing some "professor" or "doctor" that is confirming that WIFI is a threat to young kids in schools. All it takes is a few clips of a guy wearing a lab coat to convince everyone...
OH and a recent study with actual scientists was actually published in the local paper with loads a data and all that showing wifi at the levels we use is not harmful....its a catholic school anyhting to reduce technology for the kids to better control them and any excuse will do.
This is the single most offensive thing I have ever heard come out of MY public school system. I am ashamed, not only that this is happening in my country, but that this is occurring in my home province, and near my home town.
What detritus, and to think it's coming out of the people who teach our kids.
I can not explain how much this upsets me. Shameful.
Let the witch hunt begin.
Didn't you know wifi eats babies? http://www.tikirobot.net/wp/2007/11/04/sf-prop-j-zomg-wifi-eats-babies11/
(Originally by wellingtongrey.net)
What is the first most prevalent form of wireless technology next to cell phones?
That's so funny, this is the elementary school i went to as a kid. In the time of drab boxy brick boxes painted institutional green, this was an open concept designed school, the library had 30 foot ceilings with a small sunfish style sailboat in it for an interesting place to read. It's education program was as progressive as it's design... Sad to see that they've gone from that, to this sort of idiocy. What's next FM radio waves are causing brain cancer? What about HDTV air broadcasts, maybe that's why the kids in 2020 will have ADHD. LOL
Beat me to it. I didn't know that the school went up to sixth grade, my thinking was that five, six, seven year olds have no reason for wi-fi in public schools. Students need internet? That is what the computer lab is for! The only reason for wifi is laptops and smart phones, and students, especially kindergarteners, first graders, second graders and such, really have no reason for these in the classroom. If they do, I doubt they are on PBS Kids, they are probably IMing or on Facebook or Limewire. There is absolutely no educational advantage to wi-fi in elementary schools.
What the hell is up with the phrasing "know it all scientists" in the article?!
Terrible editing, suggests bias in the editors... oh wait, its slashdot.