Must be nice to have an employer that lets you "waste" time with surfing that you'd rather not let your cow-orkers and/or customers see.:)
Yeah doing my banking in 5 minutes online instead of taking a long lunch to do it must be incredibly costly to my employer. One thing's for sure. I'm glad YOU aren't my employer. I'd rather starve.
* Your definition of "sane" seems to be different from mine.
You can say that again!
If you actually *used* the Awesomebar, you'd probably want to look into [1] and [2]. (Please don't remind me that you don't want to screw around with Firefox configuration settings. *I* already know this. These links are more for the benefit of those who might come across this thread via google.)
Perfectly aware of maxRichResults, and early on messed with customizations. It doesn't change the things I don't like about awesomebar....but you already know that, so why are you wasting my time with this nonsense. Awesomebar is a complete piece of junk and I don't wish to use nor customize it. I just want a nice vanilla working bar back thanks. That's why I use hideunvisited and oldbar. The version of FF that does not allow me to have a nice simple address bar is the first version I don't bother to upgrade to.
A) IIRC, one has *always* been able to disable Firefox's automatic update feature.
Just make sure you do it every time you create a profile. All profiles default to upgrading automatically when created.
If you really wanted to know what was in the upgrade, you could have read the Release Notes
I don't want to know after the fact that FF has upgraded itself and what's there. I want to be shown release notes and given a damn choice. Who cares if it doesn't activate till I restart. I can't keep my browser session open forever, so I will need to restart in short order.
IDK if you're a software developer. If you are, then I'm sure that you're acutely aware of the significant testing and maintenance burden that additional configurable behaviours add.
I am a developer. I am aware of the significance. I am also aware that this is no excuse for taking away or adversely modifying existing behaviour. I certainly couldn't get away with that sort of shit where I work.
The core Firefox team cannot possibly maintain and test *everyone's* pet behaviour. ...and I'm not asking them to. I'm just asking that existing behaviour isn't ripped away to force users onto "new improved" behaviour that is neither new nor improved. Unvisited links showing up in your address bar because they happen to have been bookmarked at some stage is asinine. So is an address bar that uses up and covers up twice as much screen realestate as the old one. These aren't improvements. They're eye candy for idiots.
Firefox 3 beta had an option in about:config for disabling awesomebar. They removed it, citing the wish to force people into using their newly contrived abomination.
It is for this reason that the Extension and Add-on systems were built into Firefox
You shouldn't fucking need an extension to modify basic functionality to make it sane again because you've decided as a dev that the world should work different. That is a retarded way of doing things.
These systems allow the Firefox team to indirectly support *everyone's* pet behaviour by offloading the testing and maintenance burden to the third-party devs who are willing to take up the cause of marginalized users such as yourself.
What a complete crock of shit. Extensions are for extending existing behaviour. They shouldn't be needed to give you back what you had 2 versions ago. What's more the information on these extensions isn't as easy to find as you make out. Only an "advanced" user is ever going to work out how to do it for themselves. (Some people have friends who are advanced users and will copy what they do but the vast majority are never going to find hideunvisited and oldbar and work out that they are what's required to give you back some sanity).
IDK about the PP, but I daresay that I fit this description. Safe computing is not hard, when you put some thought into it.
No system is 100% perfect. Easy "safe computing" practices cover 99% of cases. You can still get caught out. If you don't acknowledge that I'll leave you to your fantasy.
Did you discuss these things in the Firefox IRC channel or mailing lists? If deemed appropriate, did you file bugs against the bad behaviour? If not, then why not?
No. Because many others had and the FF devs were either dismissive and rude about it or adopted a no comment policy. What the fuck use is opening up another bug only to have it closed as duplicate or contributing to a long thread where the devs are singing "lalala I can't hear you" going to do?
Why aren't you still using Firefox 1.0? Do you not know where to go to download a copy?
Hypocrite! If I did that you'd rail against me using out of date software and not adhering to safe computing practices. I see in your links that you've already practically done so.
Now just for kicks try finding extensions for Firefox 1.0 on the Firefox site...good luck.
Is there anything more that we can do for you tonight, sir?
Yeah stop being a smug patronising dismissive asshole...and yes I'd like fries with that.
It's not hard to ask google about "disabling AwesomeBar". It directs you to resources that tell you just what to do.
Yeah because those extensions just instantly came out when the browser did. You are an idiot.
Also, you're using a shit-load of hyperbole in this thread... you're coming across as a *really* big whiner. If you're a troll, you're a *really* bad one
Goddamn you're slow. I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out that some really bad decisions and horrendous attitudes are turning one incredible browser into a troublesome piece of shit. Do you want to grow the fuck up and take some notice of a point being made, or would you rather stick your head in the sand and assume anyone with an idea that you don't like is a troll. Some days I fucking hate slashdot. Bunch of triffling trolling bitches.
People have evolved to be interested in sex. Those that aren't die out. So of course if the web provides a means to look at boobies, it's going to get more popular...and if an ebook reader allows you to read about people having sex, those who are interested might turn to it. It's a hell of a lot more discrete to use an ebook reader than have a sexually explicit book open. You don't have to hide it behind something else to avoid attracting attention or getting into trouble.
options: 1) upsetting people like you 2) millions of unpatched browsers ready for exploiting Ill piss you off to keep the majority of people safe any day of the week, and once a release is made only security patches & bug fixes are applied, IMHO that is the best way to do releases.
Piss poor security design that creates problems and doesn't plug the holes in the first place, combined with forced upgrades does NOT make a good browser. In any case if security were THAT paramount, we wouldn't have extensions, which also auto update by default. There's an exploit waiting to happen right there.
why dont you just use the extentions and forget about the fact you dont like the default, which most people like.
I don't like being forced to change from something that works well to something that works poorly. I don't like having to use extensions for things that use to be configurable but that developers decided to push by disabling that option for the sake of their own agenda. I don't like using extensions and unsupported techniques that could be taken away at any point any time an upgrade occurs.
I also don't accept that "most people" like awesomebar. I've seen no evidence of that whatsoever. Take a look at the complaints all over the net and on the firefox boards that the FF devs in their supreme arrogance have chosen to ignore.
wtf are you on about? this has nothing to do with security or downloaded documents, are you complaining about the wierd way that firefox saves html sites? If so then yes it is abit retarded, but your free to improve it.
Get real! Are you trying to come across as some moron with continued impractical or impossible to implement suggestions? I'm sure I'd get along famously with the FF devs if I tried to join in the development effort. Or are you suggesting that I spend my year trying to fork FF and trying to sway people to use some build that one inexperienced dev has hacked? Fuck off.
The latest version would have been 2.0.x where the x represents security patches. from my experience most adware crap is installed by other software and then put into your firefox profile, however if you don't go on unsafe sites you don't get adware anyway.
I suppose you're suggesting you've never ever made a mistake visiting a site you shouldn't have, or installing something you shouldn't have? Never installed something off a CD from a magazine? Never ever had anything EVER slip through. Are you suggesting that's how MOST people behave? Or are you one of those people that visits 3 web sites and reads email and that's it? In which case any browser will do just fine.
Typical dismissive bullshit. "It's your fault, and I have no sympathy". If people always do exactly the right thing, why do we need the auto upgrades you're so in favour of?
Erm you can make simple extensions in just plain old javascript, if you want to mess around with the internal or interface of a program then your going to have to get your hands dirty.
Nope. I don't want to code for free. A web browser is just a tool to me. I don't have to be a tool designer to want my tool to work properly. What's worse is version 1.0 of this tool was great and it's steadily being eroded by the kind of arrogance you're displaying in spades.
If you don't like Firefox DON'T FUCKING USE IT.
I use to love Firefox. There are still things about it I like, but I've had problems which have wasted a lot of my time and left me feeling quite bitter about it. I've only reported these things here.
YOU sir, are the troll.
Repeating something back at me just shows you up to be the immature child that you are. What's your next post going to be? "Nyer nyer you've got cooties"?
You haven't provided one concrete solution to address any of my concerns. You haven't addressed why these were non issues in version 1.0 but are bit issues in 3.0.x. All you've done is malign me and dismiss my concerns. If FF dies a horrible death from over-engineering and by putting off users by forcing them to do things a certain way, it's people like you that'll have led to that.
For the things it has that other browsers don't, of course.
I'm not being trite. I would take your point if you said that Firefox was the best but it has flaws, or if for some reason you were committed to using Firefox - then complaining about those flaws makes sense, but if there is a better browser, then use it.
Actually, I did say that Firefox WAS the best. Past tense.
Firefox 1.0 was actually a better browser, with none of what I'm complaining about (except perhaps the malware problem). I can't use it, at least not in the form I did back in the day. The main reasons are that the FF devs have made getting extensions difficult, development has moved on and expects a later version, and of course there are the security exploits fixed in later versions but not back ported.
You're like the lad complaining that his head hurts when he hits it with a hammer... don't hit it with the hammer.
No I'm like the kid that's complaining that he bought a perfectly good hammer, but a new feature was added and automatically installed that caused the hammer to jump up and hit him on the head randomly without reason. None of this was explained when the upgrade instantly happened.
Create a separate "cow-orker" profile, downgrade, or install one of the add-ons that you mentioned earlier. *Many* of us *really* like the Awesomebar. I'm sorry that you don't. It's a good thing that you have the option to replace it with something that you like better.:D
That would work for demos but in day to day use that's not a good practical suggestion because constantly switching profiles takes time and effort that's essentially wasted.
As for the option to replace it, the 3.0 betas had this option built in but actually removed it because the FF devs decided the way to get people to adopt Awesomebar was to force it on everyone. Fortunately people have found workarounds with extensions, and the FF devs haven't been bothered enough by it to torpedo them as well (though who knows long term). Isn't it fantastic that you have the OPTION of using Awesomebar since you like it so much? I'd like the option to turn it off without extensions and workarounds.
By the way I don't understand why anyone likes an address bar that takes up twice as much room as any sane bar needs to.
That's news. There's something difficult or different about quote that's different to italic or bold??? Or is it that I prefer to use bold and italic tags?
have spyware
No one on slashdot has ever gotten spyware....EVER.
and complain about problems you already have easy solutions for
Not easy solutions. Hard to come by workarounds.
AC troll. Actually I suspect grandparent being childish posting as AC troll.
It's ok buddy, I hear they are implementing an Incognito setting in the next release.
Nothing to do with porn. I don't surf porn anywhere that I can be busted for it. Basically there's nothing I haven't seen that's worth my job.
Everything to do with professionalism at work. When I'm demonstrating something at work, I do NOT need links to remote control aircraft sites, local newspapers, slashdot, chess sites or the like coming up. I do not need my colleagues to know which bank I am with. (We are permitted to use work computers for personal use within reason). I just don't understand why I should have to show everyone who walks by bookmarks I might not have visited in 4 years! It hasn't caused problems yet, but I don't understand why upgrading my browser should subject me to this!!!
The beauty of open source programs is that if you don't like one of them, you are free to fork their source code into a new project under a different name.
Just how many open source projects have you forked and modified to your satisfaction?
So what stops you from making Syousefox?
Same as what stops me from climbing mount Everest, getting a medical degree, finding a cure for cancer, becoming a world class musician, or becoming an olympic athlete. Nothing, if I have passion, the required skills or the aptitude to learn them, have the right surrounding circumstances, and I am prepared to dedicate my life to it.
It's not easy to fork such a complex piece of software. Realistically without a team of devs behind you, the best you can do is create an extension. People who insist it's open therefore there's no reason you can't fork are living in denial. The barriers are high. What's worse is you mislead people without the technical knowledge and understanding into thinking it's easy. Then they become disillusioned with open source.
Open source means that if there is enough interest, code isn't going to be lost to the world thanks to legal restrictions on its use, or a company destroying it. It doesn't mean you as an individual can just fork and do anything you want at your whim with little effort involved. I don't just have to care that firefox is starting to suck. I have to care enough to give up a large portion of my life to changing it, I have to get others on board who agree with me helping through the life of the project, and I have to convince users to switch from Firefox to my own variant.
* Tired of opt-out upgrades. about:config app.update.enabled = false
Re-read what I wrote. Do you understand the term "opt-out"? I know how to opt out. I try to always do so. This doesn't change the default for installs. Should I forget to set it, I get a nice reminder when my browser is updated for me without me wanting it to happen.
* Awesomebar is awful not awesome browser.urlbar.maxRichResults = 0
That DOESN'T do the trick. It certainly doesn't revert the functionality. Have a look at oldbar and hideunvisited. Have a look at the numerous discussions about why they exist.
Firefox 3 includes "security" functionality Well "generally" people prefer not to lose their credit card numbers and such.
Apparently you don't like people opening up their own downloaded documents either. At least not in IE. Why is it that Firefox sets this obscure stream to mark something as downloaded, but then itself does not honour the flag it sets. By default the downloaded file opens perfectly in Firefox but not in IE (In IE pictures won't display etc) and there is no explanation as to why. I'm talking about saved HTML here! How exactly does such awful design protect my credit card info?
* Somehow infected with pop-up window Spyware... which is why you "probably" shouldn't have disabled the security features, or been using firefox 1.
Ah yes because all security holes are plugged before they make it into the wild. By the way I was using the latest version of firefox at the time (2.0.something). I didn't say I was running Firefox 1 at that stage. Nor would having security flag I mentioned enabled have protected me. Don't let truth or reality get in the way of a perfectly good troll though.
ave you ever looked into coding an extension for FF? It's horrid horrid stuff And it's better than any other browser.
No actually, it's not. It's more flexible, but it's not "better" by any means. XUL is a piece of trash.
So basically you have no real complaints about firefox... which is why your post is troll.
Actually basically you've just demonstrated how dismissive and utterly out of touch FF devs are. YOU are the troll because your "solutions" are inaccurate, incomplete and do NOT provide anything useful. YOU sir, are the troll.
As a doctor, I would just add that doctors that are nice, and doctors that are skilled, are weakly correlated.
I'm tired of doctors on slashdot saying STUPID things like this. I am troubled and angered that a doctor can be so incredibly blind that they'd make such awful statements.
Being "nice" is a PRE-REQUISIT to a doctor being skilled. A doctor who can't build a rapport and trust with the patient is not going to be able to get ALL the pertinent information. They will make mistakes ignoring and misdiagnosing the patient. If their people skills are so poorly developed they are likely to allow their own biases to cloud their judgement. I've seen this first hand. Doctors insisting there is nothing wrong with a patient that's showing clinical symptoms that can't be faked.
Also doctors that aren't "nice" and don't genuinely care about their patients are more likely to be sloppy with their diagnosis and treatment because it just doesn't matter to them. For example I've seen 3 doctors fail to check the contraindications on a patient's medicine while each one upped the dosage and caused the adverse reaction to increase until it was life threatening. Then when brought to the specialist's attention he said "oh okay...maybe you should stop then" failing again to check that suddenly stopping said medication makes people suicidal.
It is a shame, because misunderstandings happen -- you see every permutation: very good doctors that don't have excellent people skills, very good doctors that are jerks because they think they are so good, (technically) bad doctors that are really nice, doctors with substance abuse problems, patients that are completely unreasonable and on their fifth physician whom they will shortly badmouth, and good doctors that told the patient something honestly that they didn't want to hear, who subsequently leave and badmouth the doctor.
You and I define "good doctor" differently. As long as people skills and clinical skills are seen as separate and distinct, the medical profession will continue to decline.
What I would counter to this particular 'problem,' is, make a list of doctors who make you sign such contract, and post it for everybody to see. That would surely not be illegal, and just do not go to any of these doctors. It is like a prenuptial agreement -- I can see how it would be useful / essential for some people, but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a situation that requires this.
The trouble with this is most people are so apathetic that they'll just see you as some trouble maker on a holy crusade. If a doctor tried to make me sign something like that I'd simply look for another doctor. If all doctors available to me did this I'd be double checking everything they did and getting second opinions all over the place because I would realize the doctors don't even come close to being interested in my well being.
I'm absolutely fed up with Firefox, and no longer care about it's performance. I started out LOVING it back in the 0.9 beta days and still love the web developer extension and tabbed browsing (though that's become standard) but lately it's just been one issue after the other:
* Tired of opt-out upgrades. I don't like software that automatically updates itself or that blocks you from using the full functionality of old versions by, for example removing the ability to search for and add compatible plugins. Don't believe me? Try running firefox 1 and installing updates off the web. Good luck.
* Awesomebar is awful not awesome. I don't care if other people like it. I just want to be able to turn it off. As it stands the only way to get back an address bar that doesn't look like a circus and flash every bookmark up at any passer by is to install TWO extensions: oldbar to get rid of the look and hideunvisited to stop showing off every bookmark in your collection to anyone watching you use the browser.
* Firefox 3 includes "security" functionality (that thankfully can be turned off, ONCE YOU WORK OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING). Symptoms were that if I downloaded a file with firefox and tried to open it with IE, the images would be missing and none of the scripting would even come close to working. At first I thought it was an IE problem, but no. It turns out that each and every file being downloaded with firefox is being flagged as being in the Internet Zone by means of hidden file streams on the NTFS file system. This behaviour is turned off if browser.download.manager.scanWhenDone is set to false, but it's set to true by default. Thanks for the headache, FF devs. I guess I could just not upgrade....except...err...for the point above.
* Somehow infected with pop-up window Spyware (Advertisemen) that only affects firefox cut and copy functionality and only when running as firefox.exe. (Renaming it was enough to work around the spyware. Of course the real solution was to get rid of the spyware itself, but this was one nasty bug to find). At first the FF devs were in denial and were less than friendly about the whole thing but have since included information on this spyware in the info files.
* The extensions are wonderful aren't they? But have you ever looked into coding an extension for FF? It's horrid horrid stuff....and then you'd be constantly having to change it to keep it up to date with the latest version since they constantly break backward compatibility. As you might have guessed by the tone of what I'm saying, as time has gone on I have wanted to bother with this less and less.
Only problem is I hate Chrome even more and there aren't many options, especially if you want something cross platform.
Go on, tag as flamebait or troll. If you really think I'm just saying these things to stir up trouble, you've got wax between your ears.
In fact answer all interview questions with: "None of your business" or "I don't see how that's relevant". If pressed act paranoid and ask if they're secretly with the government.
I also recommend walking in and setting the interviewer's desk and chair on fire. After all you need a way to distinguish yourself from other candidates. If you still aren't sure you'vet made an impression you can poke them in the eye just to be absolutely certain.
Well either that or you can just realise that everything on the web is public and that when you're interviewing for a job any employer might not be able to by law hire at their whim, but in practice that's how it works. If you're a professional keep your public information respectable, or use a pseudonym that isn't easily traced back to you. Drunken photos and rants about sexual exploits are not a good career move. In some circumstances participating in a flame war is inadvisable.
Re:Evidence based medicine is extremely frustratin
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Why Doctors Hate Science
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· Score: -1, Troll
Absolutely not. When it comes to your own health, the buck stops with YOU, the patient.
That's a load of rubbish. Doctors rant and rail against self diagnosis then when they misdiagnose or mistreat want to pawn off the responsibility. You can't have it both ways. The law recognises professional responsibility, so the fact that you don't really doesn't matter.
Inappropriately prescribing antibiotics for education is no better than inappropriately prescribing for treatment. The bacteria certainly don't care why the prescription was made. Adverse side-effects are still a risk either way.
Fucking straw man from hell there. I never suggested he misprescribe antibiotics. I suggested that he tells the patient who is going elsewhere to actually think about what they are doing and since they insist on getting the meds against his advice to try going without and compare the result. I suggested he educate them as to why antibiotics won't help.
If a doctor doesn't protect his Professional Integrity, he becomes no better than a glorified snakeoil salesman. Telling patients only what they want to hear or prescribing inappropriate tests or prescriptions may make patients (temporarily) happier but it doesn't help them, and it certainly isn't ethical.
Hey dipshit I never said he should misprescribe. Get the wax out of your eyes and re-read what I said. Idiot.
P.S. You have a lot of anger. Can you show us on the doll where the bad doctor touched you?
Yes right here in the brain where a doctor nearly killed my wife by failing to hede contraindications on a medicine that had her seizing more and more frequently while 2 other doctors upped the dosage without doing the same basic checking. Then when I finally do get a fucking appointment with the piece of shit that perscribed the med in the first place he suggests okay maybe she should stop COLD TURKEY. Pity that's been known to lead to suicide. Fortunately _I_ with my total lack of medical training brought it to this fuckwit's attention that it might not be a good idea. "Oh okay come off gradually". Yeah that's worth $300 for 15 minutes of your time you incompetent piece of turd.
Your post was not worth the time it took to read it.
Yet you read it and responded. Are you in the habit of wasting your time?
You are not only arrogant in trying to teach someone else their profession and deride them for acting in a way that harms no one and is clearly motivated by morality, but you are incredibly abrasive and foul in doing so.
You tend to get abrasive when your life and your family's life is in the hands of a profession that doesn't take any responsibility for itself. Me and mine have personally been put at risk by quackery and corruption under the guise of medicine.
I have frequently noted your contributions to discussions here on slashdot, and generally found them to be lucid and insightful. This sort of bile is shameful, and reflects poorly on both yourself and this community as a whole.
This sort of bile is not at all shameful. What's shameful is a professional insisting that he can't engage in his profession honourably because his clients force him to act corruptly. It's unfortunate you don't like what I've said this time around but I don't contribute to discussions based on how popular those contributions will be. That's called karma whoring. I've personally witnessed incredibly and life endangering negligence, incompetence, arrogance and seen my relatives reduced to tears by doctors who'd rather be dismissive of their patients because they don't fall into some profitable subset of obvious cases they'd like to work on rather than provide the treatment they are suppose to be there to provide.
Re:Evidence based medicine is extremely frustratin
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Why Doctors Hate Science
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· Score: -1, Troll
I practice evidence based medicine as much as possible. The trouble is that patients have a very hard time understanding it, let alone appreciating it.
You sound completely like most doctors I know. Educated, but with their head shoved so far up their own arse they don't realize it. To get a feel of jut how FUCKING STUPID what you're saying is, consider replacing medicine with auto care in the sentence above:
I practice evidence based auto maintenanceas much as possible. The trouble is that car ownershave a very hard time understanding it, let alone appreciating it.
I wonder how many mechanics would be able to use that line if they were sued because someone was killed due to bad brake maintenance? Why then do doctors get to utter such UTTER FUCKING BULLSHIT and get taken seriously.
I don't give antibiotics for colds, but those patients often go see other doctors to get their antibiotics. When they get their inappropriate prescription, ironically I come across as a bad doctor for not prescribing it in the first place.
Boo fucking hoo. Extending the mechanic analogy, you're saying that you should fix problems that aren't their or offer solutions that don't fix the problem just because people are stupid about it? NO. The buck stops with you. Educate them about why antibiotics don't work. Speak to them in simple language. Tell them to try 3 or 4 times with and without antibiotics for themselves. Explain why prescribing antibiotics eventually renders them impotent. Your job is as much to educate a patient about their own well being as to prescribe medicine.
When people bring their kids in to get some gravol for their viral gastroenteritis, I tell them that it has been shown to be no better than placebo, so I don't offer it. Parents hate that.
Have you explained to them that it can actually make their child sick to be given medicine they don't need? Have you offered them any suggestions on how to comfort their child instead of just shoving them out the door feeling no better? If you're complaining that they've come to you for help and you've offered them nothing and denied them what they thought would help and are wondering why your actions don't go down well you need to get a grip.
I could go on but honestly you demonstrate the same buck passing arrogance most doctors do. Being a good doctor is a difficult job and the years of study are just one of the easier pieces. You need to have a better bedside manner and learn to educate your patients instead of railing about their stupidity. YOU are the expert here. YOU are the one with years of learning. Depending on where you work, some of these people probably haven't finished highschool. What the fuck do you expect? Grow up and quit complaining. Fuck.
VB.Net and C#.Net are very similar in the end results they can produce, but having worked with both, my conclusion is simple. You are much more likely to get stuck working with a shitty developer on a VB project, or stuck cleaning up after one.
That's only because there are a hell of a lot more VB projects, and THAT is because VB is easier.
You're still more likely to launch into a well written VB project and understand, fix or improve it much more quickly than other languages (though having worked with C# for my Masters thesis, it's not a bad language to use...or at least it wasn't when it was relatively new).
I don't know. The number of times people have insisted that Visual Basic was bad because it was easy and therefore anyone could do it (meaning that incompetents jump in and do a poor job) on this board alone astounds me.
The reality is VB was bad because you could make a real mess of things even if you were a good programmer, and people abused it trying to force it to do things that really required something closer to the machine. It didn't help that it was proprietary and windows only either. The one thing that it and other Rapid Application Development languages like RAD did was get out of the programmers way and make it really easy to do things so that the coder could focus on the problem at hand not puzzle through dozens of APIs and scratch his (or her) head wondering how to get something simple done.
With a simple and easy API a moron will sure make a mess of things, but a GOOD coder will be able to stop focusing on the code grind and rise above to make programming magic.
I develop with J2EE and I absolutely miss and pine for the days when I could prototype a screen in under half an hour. What an over-engineered piece of turd with an extra dollop of XML hell and a heaped serve of Design Pattern madness all those frameworks are.
Slashdot Mirror
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to drive a hybrid, carpooling with a bunch of environmentalists? That does not make sense!
Fuck polluting the environment. Make the furry bastard get out and push!
I'd say: "Programming is hard let's do Java"
Clearly you've never used a common Java framework like Hibernate or Spring. The easiest things made complex. Job security guaranteed!!!
Must be nice to have an employer that lets you "waste" time with surfing that you'd rather not let your cow-orkers and/or customers see. :)
Yeah doing my banking in 5 minutes online instead of taking a long lunch to do it must be incredibly costly to my employer. One thing's for sure. I'm glad YOU aren't my employer. I'd rather starve.
* Your definition of "sane" seems to be different from mine.
You can say that again!
If you actually *used* the Awesomebar, you'd probably want to look into [1] and [2]. (Please don't remind me that you don't want to screw around with Firefox configuration settings. *I* already know this. These links are more for the benefit of those who might come across this thread via google.)
Perfectly aware of maxRichResults, and early on messed with customizations. It doesn't change the things I don't like about awesomebar....but you already know that, so why are you wasting my time with this nonsense. Awesomebar is a complete piece of junk and I don't wish to use nor customize it. I just want a nice vanilla working bar back thanks. That's why I use hideunvisited and oldbar. The version of FF that does not allow me to have a nice simple address bar is the first version I don't bother to upgrade to.
A) IIRC, one has *always* been able to disable Firefox's automatic update feature.
Just make sure you do it every time you create a profile. All profiles default to upgrading automatically when created.
If you really wanted to know what was in the upgrade, you could have read the Release Notes
I don't want to know after the fact that FF has upgraded itself and what's there. I want to be shown release notes and given a damn choice. Who cares if it doesn't activate till I restart. I can't keep my browser session open forever, so I will need to restart in short order.
IDK if you're a software developer. If you are, then I'm sure that you're acutely aware of the significant testing and maintenance burden that additional configurable behaviours add.
I am a developer. I am aware of the significance. I am also aware that this is no excuse for taking away or adversely modifying existing behaviour. I certainly couldn't get away with that sort of shit where I work.
The core Firefox team cannot possibly maintain and test *everyone's* pet behaviour. ...and I'm not asking them to. I'm just asking that existing behaviour isn't ripped away to force users onto "new improved" behaviour that is neither new nor improved. Unvisited links showing up in your address bar because they happen to have been bookmarked at some stage is asinine. So is an address bar that uses up and covers up twice as much screen realestate as the old one. These aren't improvements. They're eye candy for idiots.
Firefox 3 beta had an option in about:config for disabling awesomebar. They removed it, citing the wish to force people into using their newly contrived abomination.
It is for this reason that the Extension and Add-on systems were built into Firefox
You shouldn't fucking need an extension to modify basic functionality to make it sane again because you've decided as a dev that the world should work different. That is a retarded way of doing things.
These systems allow the Firefox team to indirectly support *everyone's* pet behaviour by offloading the testing and maintenance burden to the third-party devs who are willing to take up the cause of marginalized users such as yourself.
What a complete crock of shit. Extensions are for extending existing behaviour. They shouldn't be needed to give you back what you had 2 versions ago. What's more the information on these extensions isn't as easy to find as you make out. Only an "advanced" user is ever going to work out how to do it for themselves. (Some people have friends who are advanced users and will copy what they do but the vast majority are never going to find hideunvisited and oldbar and work out that they are what's required to give you back some sanity).
IDK about the PP, but I daresay that I fit this description. Safe computing is not hard, when you put some thought into it.
No system is 100% perfect. Easy "safe computing" practices cover 99% of cases. You can still get caught out. If you don't acknowledge that I'll leave you to your fantasy.
Did you discuss these things in the Firefox IRC channel or mailing lists? If deemed appropriate, did you file bugs against the bad behaviour? If not, then why not?
No. Because many others had and the FF devs were either dismissive and rude about it or adopted a no comment policy. What the fuck use is opening up another bug only to have it closed as duplicate or contributing to a long thread where the devs are singing "lalala I can't hear you" going to do?
Why aren't you still using Firefox 1.0? Do you not know where to go to download a copy?
Hypocrite! If I did that you'd rail against me using out of date software and not adhering to safe computing practices. I see in your links that you've already practically done so.
Now just for kicks try finding extensions for Firefox 1.0 on the Firefox site...good luck.
Is there anything more that we can do for you tonight, sir?
Yeah stop being a smug patronising dismissive asshole...and yes I'd like fries with that.
It's not hard to ask google about "disabling AwesomeBar". It directs you to resources that tell you just what to do.
Yeah because those extensions just instantly came out when the browser did. You are an idiot.
Also, you're using a shit-load of hyperbole in this thread... you're coming across as a *really* big whiner. If you're a troll, you're a *really* bad one
Goddamn you're slow. I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out that some really bad decisions and horrendous attitudes are turning one incredible browser into a troublesome piece of shit. Do you want to grow the fuck up and take some notice of a point being made, or would you rather stick your head in the sand and assume anyone with an idea that you don't like is a troll. Some days I fucking hate slashdot. Bunch of triffling trolling bitches.
People have evolved to be interested in sex. Those that aren't die out. So of course if the web provides a means to look at boobies, it's going to get more popular...and if an ebook reader allows you to read about people having sex, those who are interested might turn to it. It's a hell of a lot more discrete to use an ebook reader than have a sexually explicit book open. You don't have to hide it behind something else to avoid attracting attention or getting into trouble.
I'm sure being super picky about meaningless details has led to you being the life of every party you've ever attended.
Hey, I have an idea - use another browser and leave us alone with the rants.
I'm sure repeatedly commenting as AC troll is much more fulfilling.
If you don't want to read what I'm posting, don't read it. Or you can keep telling me not to post, as AC coward and it won't change what I do at all.
options:
1) upsetting people like you
2) millions of unpatched browsers ready for exploiting
Ill piss you off to keep the majority of people safe any day of the week, and once a release is made only security patches & bug fixes are applied, IMHO that is the best way to do releases.
Piss poor security design that creates problems and doesn't plug the holes in the first place, combined with forced upgrades does NOT make a good browser. In any case if security were THAT paramount, we wouldn't have extensions, which also auto update by default. There's an exploit waiting to happen right there.
why dont you just use the extentions and forget about the fact you dont like the default, which most people like.
I don't like being forced to change from something that works well to something that works poorly. I don't like having to use extensions for things that use to be configurable but that developers decided to push by disabling that option for the sake of their own agenda. I don't like using extensions and unsupported techniques that could be taken away at any point any time an upgrade occurs.
I also don't accept that "most people" like awesomebar. I've seen no evidence of that whatsoever. Take a look at the complaints all over the net and on the firefox boards that the FF devs in their supreme arrogance have chosen to ignore.
wtf are you on about? this has nothing to do with security or downloaded documents, are you complaining about the wierd way that firefox saves html sites? If so then yes it is abit retarded, but your free to improve it.
Get real! Are you trying to come across as some moron with continued impractical or impossible to implement suggestions? I'm sure I'd get along famously with the FF devs if I tried to join in the development effort. Or are you suggesting that I spend my year trying to fork FF and trying to sway people to use some build that one inexperienced dev has hacked? Fuck off.
The latest version would have been 2.0.x where the x represents security patches. from my experience most adware crap is installed by other software and then put into your firefox profile, however if you don't go on unsafe sites you don't get adware anyway.
I suppose you're suggesting you've never ever made a mistake visiting a site you shouldn't have, or installing something you shouldn't have? Never installed something off a CD from a magazine? Never ever had anything EVER slip through. Are you suggesting that's how MOST people behave? Or are you one of those people that visits 3 web sites and reads email and that's it? In which case any browser will do just fine.
Typical dismissive bullshit. "It's your fault, and I have no sympathy". If people always do exactly the right thing, why do we need the auto upgrades you're so in favour of?
Erm you can make simple extensions in just plain old javascript, if you want to mess around with the internal or interface of a program then your going to have to get your hands dirty.
Nope. I don't want to code for free. A web browser is just a tool to me. I don't have to be a tool designer to want my tool to work properly. What's worse is version 1.0 of this tool was great and it's steadily being eroded by the kind of arrogance you're displaying in spades.
If you don't like Firefox DON'T FUCKING USE IT.
I use to love Firefox. There are still things about it I like, but I've had problems which have wasted a lot of my time and left me feeling quite bitter about it. I've only reported these things here.
YOU sir, are the troll.
Repeating something back at me just shows you up to be the immature child that you are. What's your next post going to be? "Nyer nyer you've got cooties"?
You haven't provided one concrete solution to address any of my concerns. You haven't addressed why these were non issues in version 1.0 but are bit issues in 3.0.x. All you've done is malign me and dismiss my concerns. If FF dies a horrible death from over-engineering and by putting off users by forcing them to do things a certain way, it's people like you that'll have led to that.
Then why are you using it?
For the things it has that other browsers don't, of course.
I'm not being trite. I would take your point if you said that Firefox was the best but it has flaws, or if for some reason you were committed to using Firefox - then complaining about those flaws makes sense, but if there is a better browser, then use it.
Actually, I did say that Firefox WAS the best. Past tense.
Firefox 1.0 was actually a better browser, with none of what I'm complaining about (except perhaps the malware problem). I can't use it, at least not in the form I did back in the day. The main reasons are that the FF devs have made getting extensions difficult, development has moved on and expects a later version, and of course there are the security exploits fixed in later versions but not back ported.
You're like the lad complaining that his head hurts when he hits it with a hammer... don't hit it with the hammer.
No I'm like the kid that's complaining that he bought a perfectly good hammer, but a new feature was added and automatically installed that caused the hammer to jump up and hit him on the head randomly without reason. None of this was explained when the upgrade instantly happened.
Create a separate "cow-orker" profile, downgrade, or install one of the add-ons that you mentioned earlier. *Many* of us *really* like the Awesomebar. I'm sorry that you don't. It's a good thing that you have the option to replace it with something that you like better. :D
That would work for demos but in day to day use that's not a good practical suggestion because constantly switching profiles takes time and effort that's essentially wasted.
As for the option to replace it, the 3.0 betas had this option built in but actually removed it because the FF devs decided the way to get people to adopt Awesomebar was to force it on everyone. Fortunately people have found workarounds with extensions, and the FF devs haven't been bothered enough by it to torpedo them as well (though who knows long term). Isn't it fantastic that you have the OPTION of using Awesomebar since you like it so much? I'd like the option to turn it off without extensions and workarounds.
By the way I don't understand why anyone likes an address bar that takes up twice as much room as any sane bar needs to.
You're on /. and you can't/won't figure out
That's news. There's something difficult or different about quote that's different to italic or bold??? Or is it that I prefer to use bold and italic tags?
have spyware
No one on slashdot has ever gotten spyware....EVER.
and complain about problems you already have easy solutions for
Not easy solutions. Hard to come by workarounds.
AC troll. Actually I suspect grandparent being childish posting as AC troll.
Sounds like somebody got busted with the pr0n.
It's ok buddy, I hear they are implementing an Incognito setting in the next release.
Nothing to do with porn. I don't surf porn anywhere that I can be busted for it. Basically there's nothing I haven't seen that's worth my job.
Everything to do with professionalism at work. When I'm demonstrating something at work, I do NOT need links to remote control aircraft sites, local newspapers, slashdot, chess sites or the like coming up. I do not need my colleagues to know which bank I am with. (We are permitted to use work computers for personal use within reason). I just don't understand why I should have to show everyone who walks by bookmarks I might not have visited in 4 years! It hasn't caused problems yet, but I don't understand why upgrading my browser should subject me to this!!!
The beauty of open source programs is that if you don't like one of them, you are free to fork their source code into a new project under a different name.
Just how many open source projects have you forked and modified to your satisfaction?
So what stops you from making Syousefox?
Same as what stops me from climbing mount Everest, getting a medical degree, finding a cure for cancer, becoming a world class musician, or becoming an olympic athlete. Nothing, if I have passion, the required skills or the aptitude to learn them, have the right surrounding circumstances, and I am prepared to dedicate my life to it.
It's not easy to fork such a complex piece of software. Realistically without a team of devs behind you, the best you can do is create an extension. People who insist it's open therefore there's no reason you can't fork are living in denial. The barriers are high. What's worse is you mislead people without the technical knowledge and understanding into thinking it's easy. Then they become disillusioned with open source.
Open source means that if there is enough interest, code isn't going to be lost to the world thanks to legal restrictions on its use, or a company destroying it. It doesn't mean you as an individual can just fork and do anything you want at your whim with little effort involved. I don't just have to care that firefox is starting to suck. I have to care enough to give up a large portion of my life to changing it, I have to get others on board who agree with me helping through the life of the project, and I have to convince users to switch from Firefox to my own variant.
* Tired of opt-out upgrades.
about:config
app.update.enabled = false
Re-read what I wrote. Do you understand the term "opt-out"? I know how to opt out. I try to always do so. This doesn't change the default for installs. Should I forget to set it, I get a nice reminder when my browser is updated for me without me wanting it to happen.
* Awesomebar is awful not awesome
browser.urlbar.maxRichResults = 0
That DOESN'T do the trick. It certainly doesn't revert the functionality. Have a look at oldbar and hideunvisited. Have a look at the numerous discussions about why they exist.
Firefox 3 includes "security" functionality
Well "generally" people prefer not to lose their credit card numbers and such.
Apparently you don't like people opening up their own downloaded documents either. At least not in IE. Why is it that Firefox sets this obscure stream to mark something as downloaded, but then itself does not honour the flag it sets. By default the downloaded file opens perfectly in Firefox but not in IE (In IE pictures won't display etc) and there is no explanation as to why. I'm talking about saved HTML here! How exactly does such awful design protect my credit card info?
* Somehow infected with pop-up window Spyware ... which is why you "probably" shouldn't have disabled the security features, or been using firefox 1.
Ah yes because all security holes are plugged before they make it into the wild. By the way I was using the latest version of firefox at the time (2.0.something). I didn't say I was running Firefox 1 at that stage. Nor would having security flag I mentioned enabled have protected me. Don't let truth or reality get in the way of a perfectly good troll though.
ave you ever looked into coding an extension for FF? It's horrid horrid stuff
And it's better than any other browser.
No actually, it's not. It's more flexible, but it's not "better" by any means. XUL is a piece of trash.
So basically you have no real complaints about firefox... which is why your post is troll.
Actually basically you've just demonstrated how dismissive and utterly out of touch FF devs are. YOU are the troll because your "solutions" are inaccurate, incomplete and do NOT provide anything useful. YOU sir, are the troll.
As a doctor, I would just add that doctors that are nice, and doctors that are skilled, are weakly correlated.
I'm tired of doctors on slashdot saying STUPID things like this. I am troubled and angered that a doctor can be so incredibly blind that they'd make such awful statements.
Being "nice" is a PRE-REQUISIT to a doctor being skilled. A doctor who can't build a rapport and trust with the patient is not going to be able to get ALL the pertinent information. They will make mistakes ignoring and misdiagnosing the patient. If their people skills are so poorly developed they are likely to allow their own biases to cloud their judgement. I've seen this first hand. Doctors insisting there is nothing wrong with a patient that's showing clinical symptoms that can't be faked.
Also doctors that aren't "nice" and don't genuinely care about their patients are more likely to be sloppy with their diagnosis and treatment because it just doesn't matter to them. For example I've seen 3 doctors fail to check the contraindications on a patient's medicine while each one upped the dosage and caused the adverse reaction to increase until it was life threatening. Then when brought to the specialist's attention he said "oh okay...maybe you should stop then" failing again to check that suddenly stopping said medication makes people suicidal.
It is a shame, because misunderstandings happen -- you see every permutation: very good doctors that don't have excellent people skills, very good doctors that are jerks because they think they are so good, (technically) bad doctors that are really nice, doctors with substance abuse problems, patients that are completely unreasonable and on their fifth physician whom they will shortly badmouth, and good doctors that told the patient something honestly that they didn't want to hear, who subsequently leave and badmouth the doctor.
You and I define "good doctor" differently. As long as people skills and clinical skills are seen as separate and distinct, the medical profession will continue to decline.
What I would counter to this particular 'problem,' is, make a list of doctors who make you sign such contract, and post it for everybody to see. That would surely not be illegal, and just do not go to any of these doctors. It is like a prenuptial agreement -- I can see how it would be useful / essential for some people, but I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a situation that requires this.
The trouble with this is most people are so apathetic that they'll just see you as some trouble maker on a holy crusade. If a doctor tried to make me sign something like that I'd simply look for another doctor. If all doctors available to me did this I'd be double checking everything they did and getting second opinions all over the place because I would realize the doctors don't even come close to being interested in my well being.
I have always liked "subnote" better than "netbook." I think it describes these things better.
Why? You're in the navy?
I'm absolutely fed up with Firefox, and no longer care about it's performance. I started out LOVING it back in the 0.9 beta days and still love the web developer extension and tabbed browsing (though that's become standard) but lately it's just been one issue after the other:
* Tired of opt-out upgrades. I don't like software that automatically updates itself or that blocks you from using the full functionality of old versions by, for example removing the ability to search for and add compatible plugins. Don't believe me? Try running firefox 1 and installing updates off the web. Good luck.
* Awesomebar is awful not awesome. I don't care if other people like it. I just want to be able to turn it off. As it stands the only way to get back an address bar that doesn't look like a circus and flash every bookmark up at any passer by is to install TWO extensions: oldbar to get rid of the look and hideunvisited to stop showing off every bookmark in your collection to anyone watching you use the browser.
* Firefox 3 includes "security" functionality (that thankfully can be turned off, ONCE YOU WORK OUT WHAT'S HAPPENING). Symptoms were that if I downloaded a file with firefox and tried to open it with IE, the images would be missing and none of the scripting would even come close to working. At first I thought it was an IE problem, but no. It turns out that each and every file being downloaded with firefox is being flagged as being in the Internet Zone by means of hidden file streams on the NTFS file system. This behaviour is turned off if browser.download.manager.scanWhenDone is set to false, but it's set to true by default. Thanks for the headache, FF devs. I guess I could just not upgrade....except...err...for the point above.
* Somehow infected with pop-up window Spyware (Advertisemen) that only affects firefox cut and copy functionality and only when running as firefox.exe. (Renaming it was enough to work around the spyware. Of course the real solution was to get rid of the spyware itself, but this was one nasty bug to find). At first the FF devs were in denial and were less than friendly about the whole thing but have since included information on this spyware in the info files.
* The extensions are wonderful aren't they? But have you ever looked into coding an extension for FF? It's horrid horrid stuff....and then you'd be constantly having to change it to keep it up to date with the latest version since they constantly break backward compatibility. As you might have guessed by the tone of what I'm saying, as time has gone on I have wanted to bother with this less and less.
Only problem is I hate Chrome even more and there aren't many options, especially if you want something cross platform.
Go on, tag as flamebait or troll. If you really think I'm just saying these things to stir up trouble, you've got wax between your ears.
In fact answer all interview questions with: "None of your business" or "I don't see how that's relevant". If pressed act paranoid and ask if they're secretly with the government.
I also recommend walking in and setting the interviewer's desk and chair on fire. After all you need a way to distinguish yourself from other candidates. If you still aren't sure you'vet made an impression you can poke them in the eye just to be absolutely certain.
Well either that or you can just realise that everything on the web is public and that when you're interviewing for a job any employer might not be able to by law hire at their whim, but in practice that's how it works. If you're a professional keep your public information respectable, or use a pseudonym that isn't easily traced back to you. Drunken photos and rants about sexual exploits are not a good career move. In some circumstances participating in a flame war is inadvisable.
Absolutely not. When it comes to your own health, the buck stops with YOU, the patient.
That's a load of rubbish. Doctors rant and rail against self diagnosis then when they misdiagnose or mistreat want to pawn off the responsibility. You can't have it both ways. The law recognises professional responsibility, so the fact that you don't really doesn't matter.
Inappropriately prescribing antibiotics for education is no better than inappropriately prescribing for treatment. The bacteria certainly don't care why the prescription was made. Adverse side-effects are still a risk either way.
Fucking straw man from hell there. I never suggested he misprescribe antibiotics. I suggested that he tells the patient who is going elsewhere to actually think about what they are doing and since they insist on getting the meds against his advice to try going without and compare the result. I suggested he educate them as to why antibiotics won't help.
If a doctor doesn't protect his Professional Integrity, he becomes no better than a glorified snakeoil salesman. Telling patients only what they want to hear or prescribing inappropriate tests or prescriptions may make patients (temporarily) happier but it doesn't help them, and it certainly isn't ethical.
Hey dipshit I never said he should misprescribe. Get the wax out of your eyes and re-read what I said. Idiot.
P.S. You have a lot of anger. Can you show us on the doll where the bad doctor touched you?
Yes right here in the brain where a doctor nearly killed my wife by failing to hede contraindications on a medicine that had her seizing more and more frequently while 2 other doctors upped the dosage without doing the same basic checking. Then when I finally do get a fucking appointment with the piece of shit that perscribed the med in the first place he suggests okay maybe she should stop COLD TURKEY. Pity that's been known to lead to suicide. Fortunately _I_ with my total lack of medical training brought it to this fuckwit's attention that it might not be a good idea. "Oh okay come off gradually". Yeah that's worth $300 for 15 minutes of your time you incompetent piece of turd.
So you know what: FUCK YOU.
Your post was not worth the time it took to read it.
Yet you read it and responded. Are you in the habit of wasting your time?
You are not only arrogant in trying to teach someone else their profession and deride them for acting in a way that harms no one and is clearly motivated by morality, but you are incredibly abrasive and foul in doing so.
You tend to get abrasive when your life and your family's life is in the hands of a profession that doesn't take any responsibility for itself. Me and mine have personally been put at risk by quackery and corruption under the guise of medicine.
I have frequently noted your contributions to discussions here on slashdot, and generally found them to be lucid and insightful. This sort of bile is shameful, and reflects poorly on both yourself and this community as a whole.
This sort of bile is not at all shameful. What's shameful is a professional insisting that he can't engage in his profession honourably because his clients force him to act corruptly. It's unfortunate you don't like what I've said this time around but I don't contribute to discussions based on how popular those contributions will be. That's called karma whoring. I've personally witnessed incredibly and life endangering negligence, incompetence, arrogance and seen my relatives reduced to tears by doctors who'd rather be dismissive of their patients because they don't fall into some profitable subset of obvious cases they'd like to work on rather than provide the treatment they are suppose to be there to provide.
I practice evidence based medicine as much as possible. The trouble is that patients have a very hard time understanding it, let alone appreciating it.
You sound completely like most doctors I know. Educated, but with their head shoved so far up their own arse they don't realize it. To get a feel of jut how FUCKING STUPID what you're saying is, consider replacing medicine with auto care in the sentence above:
I practice evidence based auto maintenanceas much as possible. The trouble is that car ownershave a very hard time understanding it, let alone appreciating it.
I wonder how many mechanics would be able to use that line if they were sued because someone was killed due to bad brake maintenance? Why then do doctors get to utter such UTTER FUCKING BULLSHIT and get taken seriously.
I don't give antibiotics for colds, but those patients often go see other doctors to get their antibiotics. When they get their inappropriate prescription, ironically I come across as a bad doctor for not prescribing it in the first place.
Boo fucking hoo. Extending the mechanic analogy, you're saying that you should fix problems that aren't their or offer solutions that don't fix the problem just because people are stupid about it? NO. The buck stops with you. Educate them about why antibiotics don't work. Speak to them in simple language. Tell them to try 3 or 4 times with and without antibiotics for themselves. Explain why prescribing antibiotics eventually renders them impotent. Your job is as much to educate a patient about their own well being as to prescribe medicine.
When people bring their kids in to get some gravol for their viral gastroenteritis, I tell them that it has been shown to be no better than placebo, so I don't offer it. Parents hate that.
Have you explained to them that it can actually make their child sick to be given medicine they don't need? Have you offered them any suggestions on how to comfort their child instead of just shoving them out the door feeling no better? If you're complaining that they've come to you for help and you've offered them nothing and denied them what they thought would help and are wondering why your actions don't go down well you need to get a grip.
I could go on but honestly you demonstrate the same buck passing arrogance most doctors do. Being a good doctor is a difficult job and the years of study are just one of the easier pieces. You need to have a better bedside manner and learn to educate your patients instead of railing about their stupidity. YOU are the expert here. YOU are the one with years of learning. Depending on where you work, some of these people probably haven't finished highschool. What the fuck do you expect? Grow up and quit complaining. Fuck.
VB.Net and C#.Net are very similar in the end results they can produce, but having worked with both, my conclusion is simple. You are much more likely to get stuck working with a shitty developer on a VB project, or stuck cleaning up after one.
That's only because there are a hell of a lot more VB projects, and THAT is because VB is easier.
You're still more likely to launch into a well written VB project and understand, fix or improve it much more quickly than other languages (though having worked with C# for my Masters thesis, it's not a bad language to use...or at least it wasn't when it was relatively new).
I don't know. The number of times people have insisted that Visual Basic was bad because it was easy and therefore anyone could do it (meaning that incompetents jump in and do a poor job) on this board alone astounds me.
The reality is VB was bad because you could make a real mess of things even if you were a good programmer, and people abused it trying to force it to do things that really required something closer to the machine. It didn't help that it was proprietary and windows only either. The one thing that it and other Rapid Application Development languages like RAD did was get out of the programmers way and make it really easy to do things so that the coder could focus on the problem at hand not puzzle through dozens of APIs and scratch his (or her) head wondering how to get something simple done.
With a simple and easy API a moron will sure make a mess of things, but a GOOD coder will be able to stop focusing on the code grind and rise above to make programming magic.
I develop with J2EE and I absolutely miss and pine for the days when I could prototype a screen in under half an hour. What an over-engineered piece of turd with an extra dollop of XML hell and a heaped serve of Design Pattern madness all those frameworks are.
Methane we produce the same old way.
Pass the baked beans, luv!