It doesn't invalidate the argument of whether you should use a single language or several, and it doesn't make that argument less interesting. It's a discussion forum is it not? Discussions meander and evolve. Get over it.
In person, you wouldn't walk up to 2 people having a discussion and interupt to call them lazy-ass (or if you would you're a jerk that probably has no friends). Have some manners online too. It's not too much to ask.
I'm not saying you should use 300 different obscure languages, or let programmers use whatever they like. I'm saying one language isn't healthy either. I've learnt that the hard way as I've seen systems go from highly desirable to unwanted legacy in less than 3 years.
Different languages, like different tools, are also good for different things. What you're proposing is the equivalent of telling a garage full of mechanics that the only tool they may now use are brand X wrenches. All other tools are not permitted. Then wonder why when brand X closes its doors you can't buy them, can't find anyone who knows how to use them, and can't find anyone willing to learn.
You're welcome. A word of advice. If you do buy Dell spring for maximum extended warranty. Chances are good you'll use it, and I've always seemed to get better service if it's under warranty.
I have to say I've never understood the idea of reformating every 6 months. I don't do that at work and I certainly don't at home. I basically only reformat when a hard disk crashes. I'm able to get my PCs running reasonably well and all I do is occassionally defrag (and not all of them). If your computer is running slow it's because its' underpowered to run all the software you put on it simultaneously. It doesn't matter how many times you do it, it'll still run at the same speed when you're done installing all your apps.
iTunes started out allowing you to transfer content back from your iPod to the computer. You can still get to it through the mass storage interface (well as of a generation or 2 ago you could - my iPods a couple of years old now) but the files are all renamed for playback on the iPod. This is a complete pain in the neck for me and it's not because I want to pirate anything.
I will have to disagree about Apple being better than MS. At the risk of invoking Godwin, it's kinda like saying Stalin is better than Hitler. Both companies have committed atrocities.
I'm staying with MS at the moment almost exclusively because Windows has the widest application support. No I don't have a list of perfect suppliers for you, but with Windows I at least get a wide choice of suppliers for hardware (certainly wider than a single company). It also gives me the widest choice of software. That said I'm staying with XP until I can't find hardware to run it. I'm not sure if I'll begrudgingly move to Vista which I hate with a passion. For the first time in my life there isn't a shiny new OS on the horizon that I want to play with.
By the way, not to put too fine a point on it but Apple didn't just provide bad service. Their dealers sold me outdated and overpriced hardware, then pulled the software supply chain just as I needed it. Under those circumstances I don't think staying away from them is unreasonable at all, even for as long as I have (and it's been about 20 years).
There were a total of 8 replies to my post. Not all of them were negative. I even had one person mod it as interesting. Picking out that one sentence out of the whole post then then continuing to harp on about it (and insulting others in the process) is childish to say the least.
Actually, my first post was merely declaring "Oh God, not this crap again".
So your first post was merely insulting/derogatory and assumed I was trolling. Do you really wonder why I responded?
Not from my point of view, which has been made pretty clear my previous posts
Your point of view is dillusional, which is made pretty clear from your posts. You really should stop trying to twist the truth. You're not very good at it.
You may have nothing better to do with your time than rehash what you've said and continue to be a troll and a bully to boot. I do have better things to do. Good day.
You're dilluisonal. Seriously. There was one line in my whole post about Linux. You're the only one who got "stirred up" by it. I even had your "meme" in quotes too. You ignored the rest of the post, harped on the one line, and went on and on about how I provided no evidence (while providing none of your own). You wouldn't know a constructive or logical argument if it came up and bit you. YOU are the troll. No irony at all.
What you've demonstrated is that how pointless something is can be rather subjective. However there are tangible and long lived benefits from some behaviours that don't come from others.
For example spending 3 years playing computer games vs spending 3 years obtaining a degree. If you get pleasure out of the games you might not consider it a waste of time, but only one has a serious potential for enriching the rest of your life. If you study something you actually enjoy, it might set you up for years of making a living at something you enjoy. If you play a video game you enjoy for that long you're not that much better off in the end. One has contributed more to your life than pure entertainment.
So most people would say the games are pointless and don't contribute to your life beyond empty pleasure. (There are some exceptions. eg. playing with flight sims may lead to growing up to be a pilot etc). The other point is that if you spend every waking moment trying to better yourself you'll stress yourself out. Games help with that because it doesn't matter much - there aren't many consequeces beyond the game itself. Perhaps that's one of the appeals of virtual realities. The trouble is people get sucked into them and let their real lives suffer because the empty pleasure of the virtual reality is more fun in the short term. If the friend you were talking about skipped work most days to attend soccer games I think most people would agree it's a problem. If he checks on the soccer scores, it's not much harm. However yes he should be able to step back and realize that other people enjoy other things and even if it seems pointless to him it might not be to someone else.
I tried second life for a couple of weeks and found that pointless FOR ME. There was no goal within the game. The social relationships were a pale shadow of real life ones in terms of richness. The most fun thing was exploring virtual spaces and flying but even they got boring to me. I do see why people would say that. On the other hand I've had a neighbour I showed Jupiter in my telescope tell me that was pointless (and snicker that it was a waste of money). I have a better appreciation for Astronomy having studied it and so found it amazing. I've always considered learning and observing less pointless than other things. My point from all of this is I got something from it he couldn't. I can only assume others find something interesting in 2nd life that I don't because for me it is a total waste of time.
However saying all life is pointless is a complete cop out. You know for yourself what you consider enriching behaviour, that expands or realizes your potential and betters yourself. Saying who cares "life is pointless" and using that as an excuse not to try to do things that will enrich your life by your own subjective values is certainly not going to make for a happy, full or rich life.
You were amusing for a while but I'm busy today and have more important things to do. It doesn't matter how many times you claim you provided more information than I since a quick review of the thread will show you did no such thing. Same goes for the fact that you were rude and focused only on what I said about Linux. That you choose to consider what I've said is invalid is fine - go ahead and bury your head in the sand.
I'm not even going to read the rest of your response. A skim is good enough. You're full of hot air and have nothing new or interesting to say. You can believe whatever you choose to, it doesn't make it true or change reality, and the reality is that Linux in its current guise won't be replacing Windows or MacOS any time soon. Most users aren't even thinking in the same terms as you. They couldn't give a shit which desktop manager is more intuitive (and your claim is subjective anyway). What they want to know is which one lets them run their favourite programs and perform the tasks they want to get done. That you don't understand this, and that you don't think manners are important make you the social inept that you are. That you'll be a two bit hypocrite and criticize me for not supplying references while in the same breath telling me you don't owe me the same makes your entire argument nothing more than a pathetic childish whine. You're no more than a troll and I'm done feeding you.
If you diversify the range of languages you use, you limit that risk somewhat in as much as you can expect some of your code to die but hopefully not all.
Perl won't live forever. No language will. I'd call C the steadiest of the lot and even that's been on the wane for some years (for business apps - I know it's not dead for game development etc.). Languages don't all die together though and by actually using a few different languages and platforms you give yourself some breathing space - as each one dies you replace it. Whereas if all your code is built on a language and it dies...well you have to replace it all in one hit which is never much fun.
By the way I don't consider.Net a safe language to use at all. Proprietary, and closed, running on a single platform (and yes I'm aware of Mono etc.). I have used.Net, but not commercial and I use Java now, commercially..Net was simpler and made more sense but you're right the.Net code I wrote a handful of years ago uses legacy Winforms code.
With no real information to back it up, beyond extremely vague references.
If you'd asked for references or more information instead of being rude and arrogant we may have been able to have a discussion. What the fuck do you want on a forum? Refereed journal articles? You're being ridiculous.
I consider Slashdot to be a site to be for 'nerds', part of the expectations in that is being able to actually debate or gain more insight from other 'nerds' on various topics.
Ahh I see so now one of the criteria for commenting on a story is to post references to every comment or anecdote? Gimme a break. You have no interest in bettering the site, or getting more information from me. You're just sore that someone would dare to criticize your pet OS. How old are you?
What insight did you provide again? Oh that's right, none. Just a personal attack and a bunch of arrogant whining.
Honestly, I am sick of the "Linux is not ready for the desktop", "Apple just works", "Windows crashes every hour" sort of memes.
That's really too bad because these "memes" are here to stay. They summarise a users experience. The fact is Linux isn't ready to be unleashed on mainstream non-hobbyists. Apple does not "just work" and depending on what you do windows may or may not crash every hour - certainly it was true for certain versions of windows (95, ME).
When there are currently 60years and older people, children who are six years old who can use a Linux system without any real difficulty, it is in my opinion "ready for the desktop".
When most of the desktop software isn't written for Linux/Unix, when the alternatives are very weak and often incomplete immitations of better software or require dropping to the command line to hand configure. When document formats are different and opening common docs like word docs reformats the crap out of them. When every distro does things differently or leaves certain things out due to licensing. No Linux isn't ready for the mainstream. You can deny it till the sun goes cold, it doesn't change reality. It's not anywhere near ready. Yeah sure if all your family member does is browse the web and read email, Linux is ready. If that's all you do, great for you.
It was as constructive and thorough enough needed for a response to your posts.
Rubbish. You were being a hypocrite. You cited no more references than I and still haven't. You're just an arrogant superiorist git that thinks if YOU thought of it it's somehow more valid - "I think, therefore I am better than you".
I don't consider what I wrote vague, there was more than enough content to understand what the problem was, unlike in your previous posts.
How many times do I have to say this? Are you thick as pig shit? Quit with the straw man already. I wasn't asking you to help me solve a problem. If you wanted more information all you had to do is ask instead of launch a stupid arrogant and childish personal attack. Unfortunately you not only lack the social skills to do that, but don't see the value in those social skills.
Heh, you missunderstood that. I am not on Slashdot to be friendly, I am not here to promote anything.
What you think the less pleasant you make this place the better it will be? What???? Again are you thick as pig shit? Where did I ask you to promote anything? Where exactly did I promote one OS over another? My point was they're all garbage and the more cross compatibility the more it broadens your options. Yet you picked your pet OS to defend because heaven forbid I used a common phrase that sums up what some people think of it.
If you see me on IRC help channel, I will likely be offering you help and I won't be 'attacking' things you state. However, this is Slashdot, a site where 'nerds' communicate and if someone raises a point that appears to be obviously false, I am not going to assume he or she needs help and I am more likely to assume things such as this are flamebait, trolling and so on.
That much was obvious. You wern't even giving constructive criticism about anything in your original post. Just bland statements that could really apply to anything.
Actually I was sharing my experiences, and my opinion. This is a social thing that has merit and value. No I didn't wish to file a bug report, provide "constructive" criticism to people who'd just ignore it, or go into explicit detail about my experiences. This isn't a committee for the improvement of Linux. Yet you seem to come here expecting that...or perhaps you're just being dishonest and like so many other fools who hear an opinion they don't like are just trying to tell me to shut up, clutching at whatever criticism suits them for an excuse.
You attack me with a vague garbage hypocritical statement like "Just bland statements that could really apply to anything." If you're going to attack me on the basis of a lack of thoroughness and accuracy, and a lack of constructive feedback, the least you could do is actually provide something constructive, coherent and accurate yourself. Instead I get a vague inaccurate criticism which is a very shallow cover for "shut up". How am I even suppose to take your gibbering seriously?
It gets annoying hearing the same tired 'memes' on Slashdot over and over with nothing real backing them up.
Oh lookie he learnt a new word: 'meme'. Give him a pat. There are plenty of 'memes' I don't particularly care for here. Linux is ready for the desktop is one of them. Yet you support that and decide to attack my opinion. Just what exactly do you hope to achieve? I'm not going to change my mind. I'm certainly not going to shut up. All you've done is created hostility in a pompous, arrogant and asinie way. You really do lack any social skill, and if I were you I wouldn't be picking on other people's ability to construct an argument, or for being unconstructive.
I think sloths are cute.
Go mate with one then, just don't procreate for heaven sake.
I am not a helper here, nor is it my intention to promote Linux on Slashdot either. If you want hugs, you might want to try http://www.ubuntuforums.com/ or such.
What an arrogant self congratulatory pratt you truly are. Now you're attacking other Unix users because they're not as 'lite as you. I guess they're only collateral damage. Again no social skills at all, and a complete lack of comprehension as to why what you're saying only damages both your argument and the software you profess to enjoy. What a tosser! Idiots like you are one very major reason the whole "Linux is ready for the desktop" mantra won't be true for some time. You're very amusing though and I'm a little bored today so I hope you respond with something else stupid and weak so I can pick it apart. I hope whatever the hell you do for a living is done with better technique than your debating.
That is where we differ, I am far more descriptive when I have issues with a OS. I don't summarize my OS issues with a simple blanket statement that can apply to anything.
That's right. That's where we differ. You are a condescending prat who's happy to adopt a superior tone. I wasn't filing a bug report, and your response indicates your social skills are on par with that of a sloth. The same social skills and attitude I might add that make Linux horrible for a non-hobbyist end user.
As a hobbyist Linux is fine, but I have less and less time to be a hobbyist these days and as an end user an OS that doesn't run the most applications and still has faults and bugs that require the end user to learn all sorts of intricate details is not suitable.
Sorry coward. I stopped lifting my philosophy from sci-fi when I was 12. Suggest you do the same. Oh and stop collecting starwars memorabilia. It's not going to make you rich.
I had a look at the Emac I had to babysit at work. The interface wasn't that different to the crap I remember from high school with the original Macs and Mac Plus. I've never liked it. I might get use to it if I had a lot of money to spend trying to use it for the desktop, but then I couldn't use half the software I've grown up with. Chessmaster, Flight Simulators and r/c flight simulators in terms of gaming, and all the tools I'm use to. It's only in the last couple of years that running windows on a Mac was possible and I need windows for the apps and handful of games.
Plus their lock-in proprietary model irks me. I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that I had to beg and plead as a kid for my parents to drive hours to go shopping for software. (This was after convincing them to spend big money because the IIe was better! Wish I'd bought a fucking C64. Would have saved my parents about $4000 too!). Oh there was mail order but then you took the hit for delivery which wasn't small in the mid 80s. The fact that Apple were able to suddenly prevent software sales through department stores and go to their own "resellers" meant I was cut off. Even now it's stil the case only for hardware - if ou buy a Mac, you have to take it to Apple if it breaks. If my PC breaks I can replace the part myself with bits bought from any one of a number of suppliers a few minutes from either work or home. Laptops are different of course, which is why I looked at Apple for my last laptop, till I saw the graphics cards and prices and just laughed.
I bought my wife and I iPods a couple of years back. Had problems with them too, and at the time they were refusing return/exchange which isn't legal here. My click wheel still doesn't work right and I can't be bothered trying to get it fixed. Basically Apple's been nothing but a headache to deal with. Their stuff has given me lots of headaches. So has Windows but the difference with Windows is that often _I_ can do something to fix them besides go running to a single company. The user base is bigger so there's more knowledge on troubleshooting. Unfortunately with WGA, Vista and the whole DRM fiasco (crippling machines to call them "trusted"! Weasel words!), MS has gone to the dogs as far as I'm concerned. I really don't know where I'll be once I can no longer run XP.
Hey if the Mac laptops came with a decent video card, I _might_ be tempted. I'm using Dells right now because for half the price I'd spend on a decent Mac, I get a Dell with a good video card. The 5 laptops I've bought over the last 10 years or so haven't been without problems though. I've had to run non-standard drivers on my latest to prevent BSOD. My last one was okay, but the one before that broke due to what appears to be a design flaw - a case rubs against motherboard, motherboard died - had it fixed under extended warranty obtained through credit card purchase but only after 4-5 months of headaches like having to get Dell to say it would have been covered under warranty had it happened in the warranty period. Then there's the fact that tech support doesn't show up for the appointments they arrange (repeatedly). So if I thought i could lay out more coin and get something better I would. However I'm afraid I'd just be laying out coin for hassles by a different bunch of underpaid customer "support" drones (not their fault) so I keep the coin and get Dell with extra warranty for half the cost.
By the way I think Vista is less ready for the desktop than Linux. What a pile of poo.
It's unpopular because it's a generalization. For me, it works perfectly.
It's unpopular because a large portion of the community uses and/or contributes to Linux. Its not a generalizaiton though. "Ready for the desktop" has never meant "ready for a computer hobbyist desktop". It's very widely accepted to mean popular for the mainstream - users who's only interest in using computers is as tools or appliances to do something they are actually interested in.
I suffered years ago from Apple. I bought a IIe at a premium just as the Mac came out, then Apple decided to close distribution and I had to drive a couple of hours to get any software legally (whereas I WAs able to buy software from a department store previously).
I think if you get screwed over by a company you should learn from it. Apple does dubious things even now. Like crippling iTunes. I also had to babysit an eMac at work a few years ago and saw it die horribly within a month (motherboard died), then had to jump through hoops with support that was actually worse than most of my experiences with Dell. In terms of general tactics I don't think Apple have changed one bit. Not what I'd call a pleasure to deal with.
Sounds to me like a bunch of Perl coders with a few million lines of corporate code who thought this would be easier than learning another language for one specific smallish project.
It's called putting all your eggs in one basket. When the language is no longer popular they'll be begging anyone with experience of it to join and trying to rewrite the entire monstrosity. Don't believe me? Think about Oracle forms. Half my job is replacing legacy code. What you're describing is a neat way of creating a HUGE legacy codebase for the future. Excellent for the programmer's job security. Not so good for the employer.
Wouldn't it be funny if OSX ended up better able to load old exes than Vista.
I'm no fan of OSX, but nor am I a fan of Vista. Unpopular as the view is I don't think Linux is "ready for the desktop" either. SO I'm going to be one of these sad people that clings to XP for as long as they can. The bottom line is I can't stand Vista for its restrictions (Microsoft has been behaving very badly in the last couple of years) and I can't stand OSX because I've suffered badly many years ago due to Apple's tactics and my own naivety as a child. I use XP at work and at home begrudingly. As far as I'm concerned the more cross compatibility the better since less of the apps I've spent time finding and learning to use will die a premature death.
I'm paid for results, not for originality. If people provide code on the web as tutorial purposes or just as a friendly piece of help then I would be going against my job to not use it.
Presumably you're also paid to behave ethically and protect your company from exposure to litigation. Just because someone's allowed you to look at their code, it doesn't give you the right to use it without permission or contrary to the permission given.
Personally I don't believe copyright in it's current form is a good thing. I believe that an author should be entitled to compensation for their work, but not to control over it's use once made public. However that is NOT how the current legal system operates and pretending that it is exposes you and your company to danger. I'm glad you're not my employee.
The guy found code in the company codebase, that is also in a forum. If he doesn't report it at all, you're right he doesn't look incompetent, but he's posting for advice so clearly he wants to report it.
The suggestion from the parent I responded to was something like - Just pretend the code on the forum was stolen from your company codebase and report that. Then it looks like you're looking out for the company and when they compare dates they'll realize the company codebase includes the copy not the other way round. My response is that if you do that you look incompetent because it suggests you didn't think to compare the date on the forum post to the date on the company code.
Not only that but if it goes too far before the company realizes (through more incompetence) that theirs is the copy, legal threats could be made etc. to the original developer.
Also who knows what actually transpired. Perhaps someone within the company posted the code under an alias, or perhaps the code was copied with permission but not correctly attributed. Perhaps the code appears in the company code base on a different project even earlier than the forum post and was therefore leaked by someone in the company. Who knows. It requires proper investigation. Burying it or playing stupid won't help anyone get to the truth or serve to protect anyone's rights, which is what I assume the OP was after when he came to/. for advice.
Slashdot Mirror
Do this anyway. They sue for thousands of dollars per song downloaded and I've never seen a song being sold for that much per copy.
Nice trolling.
It doesn't invalidate the argument of whether you should use a single language or several, and it doesn't make that argument less interesting. It's a discussion forum is it not? Discussions meander and evolve. Get over it.
In person, you wouldn't walk up to 2 people having a discussion and interupt to call them lazy-ass (or if you would you're a jerk that probably has no friends). Have some manners online too. It's not too much to ask.
I'm not saying you should use 300 different obscure languages, or let programmers use whatever they like. I'm saying one language isn't healthy either. I've learnt that the hard way as I've seen systems go from highly desirable to unwanted legacy in less than 3 years.
Different languages, like different tools, are also good for different things. What you're proposing is the equivalent of telling a garage full of mechanics that the only tool they may now use are brand X wrenches. All other tools are not permitted. Then wonder why when brand X closes its doors you can't buy them, can't find anyone who knows how to use them, and can't find anyone willing to learn.
You're welcome. A word of advice. If you do buy Dell spring for maximum extended warranty. Chances are good you'll use it, and I've always seemed to get better service if it's under warranty.
Interesting annecdotes.
I have to say I've never understood the idea of reformating every 6 months. I don't do that at work and I certainly don't at home. I basically only reformat when a hard disk crashes. I'm able to get my PCs running reasonably well and all I do is occassionally defrag (and not all of them). If your computer is running slow it's because its' underpowered to run all the software you put on it simultaneously. It doesn't matter how many times you do it, it'll still run at the same speed when you're done installing all your apps.
iTunes started out allowing you to transfer content back from your iPod to the computer. You can still get to it through the mass storage interface (well as of a generation or 2 ago you could - my iPods a couple of years old now) but the files are all renamed for playback on the iPod. This is a complete pain in the neck for me and it's not because I want to pirate anything.
I will have to disagree about Apple being better than MS. At the risk of invoking Godwin, it's kinda like saying Stalin is better than Hitler. Both companies have committed atrocities.
I'm staying with MS at the moment almost exclusively because Windows has the widest application support. No I don't have a list of perfect suppliers for you, but with Windows I at least get a wide choice of suppliers for hardware (certainly wider than a single company). It also gives me the widest choice of software. That said I'm staying with XP until I can't find hardware to run it. I'm not sure if I'll begrudgingly move to Vista which I hate with a passion. For the first time in my life there isn't a shiny new OS on the horizon that I want to play with.
By the way, not to put too fine a point on it but Apple didn't just provide bad service. Their dealers sold me outdated and overpriced hardware, then pulled the software supply chain just as I needed it. Under those circumstances I don't think staying away from them is unreasonable at all, even for as long as I have (and it's been about 20 years).
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=376935&cid=21547799
There were a total of 8 replies to my post. Not all of them were negative. I even had one person mod it as interesting. Picking out that one sentence out of the whole post then then continuing to harp on about it (and insulting others in the process) is childish to say the least.
Actually, my first post was merely declaring "Oh God, not this crap again".
So your first post was merely insulting/derogatory and assumed I was trolling. Do you really wonder why I responded?
Not from my point of view, which has been made pretty clear my previous posts
Your point of view is dillusional, which is made pretty clear from your posts. You really should stop trying to twist the truth. You're not very good at it.
You may have nothing better to do with your time than rehash what you've said and continue to be a troll and a bully to boot. I do have better things to do. Good day.
You're dilluisonal. Seriously. There was one line in my whole post about Linux. You're the only one who got "stirred up" by it. I even had your "meme" in quotes too. You ignored the rest of the post, harped on the one line, and went on and on about how I provided no evidence (while providing none of your own). You wouldn't know a constructive or logical argument if it came up and bit you. YOU are the troll. No irony at all.
What you've demonstrated is that how pointless something is can be rather subjective. However there are tangible and long lived benefits from some behaviours that don't come from others.
For example spending 3 years playing computer games vs spending 3 years obtaining a degree. If you get pleasure out of the games you might not consider it a waste of time, but only one has a serious potential for enriching the rest of your life. If you study something you actually enjoy, it might set you up for years of making a living at something you enjoy. If you play a video game you enjoy for that long you're not that much better off in the end. One has contributed more to your life than pure entertainment.
So most people would say the games are pointless and don't contribute to your life beyond empty pleasure. (There are some exceptions. eg. playing with flight sims may lead to growing up to be a pilot etc). The other point is that if you spend every waking moment trying to better yourself you'll stress yourself out. Games help with that because it doesn't matter much - there aren't many consequeces beyond the game itself. Perhaps that's one of the appeals of virtual realities. The trouble is people get sucked into them and let their real lives suffer because the empty pleasure of the virtual reality is more fun in the short term. If the friend you were talking about skipped work most days to attend soccer games I think most people would agree it's a problem. If he checks on the soccer scores, it's not much harm. However yes he should be able to step back and realize that other people enjoy other things and even if it seems pointless to him it might not be to someone else.
I tried second life for a couple of weeks and found that pointless FOR ME. There was no goal within the game. The social relationships were a pale shadow of real life ones in terms of richness. The most fun thing was exploring virtual spaces and flying but even they got boring to me. I do see why people would say that. On the other hand I've had a neighbour I showed Jupiter in my telescope tell me that was pointless (and snicker that it was a waste of money). I have a better appreciation for Astronomy having studied it and so found it amazing. I've always considered learning and observing less pointless than other things. My point from all of this is I got something from it he couldn't. I can only assume others find something interesting in 2nd life that I don't because for me it is a total waste of time.
However saying all life is pointless is a complete cop out. You know for yourself what you consider enriching behaviour, that expands or realizes your potential and betters yourself. Saying who cares "life is pointless" and using that as an excuse not to try to do things that will enrich your life by your own subjective values is certainly not going to make for a happy, full or rich life.
You were amusing for a while but I'm busy today and have more important things to do. It doesn't matter how many times you claim you provided more information than I since a quick review of the thread will show you did no such thing. Same goes for the fact that you were rude and focused only on what I said about Linux. That you choose to consider what I've said is invalid is fine - go ahead and bury your head in the sand.
I'm not even going to read the rest of your response. A skim is good enough. You're full of hot air and have nothing new or interesting to say. You can believe whatever you choose to, it doesn't make it true or change reality, and the reality is that Linux in its current guise won't be replacing Windows or MacOS any time soon. Most users aren't even thinking in the same terms as you. They couldn't give a shit which desktop manager is more intuitive (and your claim is subjective anyway). What they want to know is which one lets them run their favourite programs and perform the tasks they want to get done. That you don't understand this, and that you don't think manners are important make you the social inept that you are. That you'll be a two bit hypocrite and criticize me for not supplying references while in the same breath telling me you don't owe me the same makes your entire argument nothing more than a pathetic childish whine. You're no more than a troll and I'm done feeding you.
If you diversify the range of languages you use, you limit that risk somewhat in as much as you can expect some of your code to die but hopefully not all.
.Net a safe language to use at all. Proprietary, and closed, running on a single platform (and yes I'm aware of Mono etc.). I have used .Net, but not commercial and I use Java now, commercially. .Net was simpler and made more sense but you're right the .Net code I wrote a handful of years ago uses legacy Winforms code.
Perl won't live forever. No language will. I'd call C the steadiest of the lot and even that's been on the wane for some years (for business apps - I know it's not dead for game development etc.). Languages don't all die together though and by actually using a few different languages and platforms you give yourself some breathing space - as each one dies you replace it. Whereas if all your code is built on a language and it dies...well you have to replace it all in one hit which is never much fun.
By the way I don't consider
With no real information to back it up, beyond extremely vague references.
If you'd asked for references or more information instead of being rude and arrogant we may have been able to have a discussion. What the fuck do you want on a forum? Refereed journal articles? You're being ridiculous.
I consider Slashdot to be a site to be for 'nerds', part of the expectations in that is being able to actually debate or gain more insight from other 'nerds' on various topics.
Ahh I see so now one of the criteria for commenting on a story is to post references to every comment or anecdote? Gimme a break. You have no interest in bettering the site, or getting more information from me. You're just sore that someone would dare to criticize your pet OS. How old are you?
What insight did you provide again? Oh that's right, none. Just a personal attack and a bunch of arrogant whining.
Honestly, I am sick of the "Linux is not ready for the desktop", "Apple just works", "Windows crashes every hour" sort of memes.
That's really too bad because these "memes" are here to stay. They summarise a users experience. The fact is Linux isn't ready to be unleashed on mainstream non-hobbyists. Apple does not "just work" and depending on what you do windows may or may not crash every hour - certainly it was true for certain versions of windows (95, ME).
When there are currently 60years and older people, children who are six years old who can use a Linux system without any real difficulty, it is in my opinion "ready for the desktop".
When most of the desktop software isn't written for Linux/Unix, when the alternatives are very weak and often incomplete immitations of better software or require dropping to the command line to hand configure. When document formats are different and opening common docs like word docs reformats the crap out of them. When every distro does things differently or leaves certain things out due to licensing. No Linux isn't ready for the mainstream. You can deny it till the sun goes cold, it doesn't change reality. It's not anywhere near ready. Yeah sure if all your family member does is browse the web and read email, Linux is ready. If that's all you do, great for you.
It was as constructive and thorough enough needed for a response to your posts.
Rubbish. You were being a hypocrite. You cited no more references than I and still haven't. You're just an arrogant superiorist git that thinks if YOU thought of it it's somehow more valid - "I think, therefore I am better than you".
I don't consider what I wrote vague, there was more than enough content to understand what the problem was, unlike in your previous posts.
How many times do I have to say this? Are you thick as pig shit? Quit with the straw man already. I wasn't asking you to help me solve a problem. If you wanted more information all you had to do is ask instead of launch a stupid arrogant and childish personal attack. Unfortunately you not only lack the social skills to do that, but don't see the value in those social skills.
Heh, you missunderstood that. I am not on Slashdot to be friendly, I am not here to promote anything.
What you think the less pleasant you make this place the better it will be? What???? Again are you thick as pig shit? Where did I ask you to promote anything? Where exactly did I promote one OS over another? My point was they're all garbage and the more cross compatibility the more it broadens your options. Yet you picked your pet OS to defend because heaven forbid I used a common phrase that sums up what some people think of it.
If you see me on IRC help channel, I will likely be offering you help and I won't be 'attacking' things you state. However, this is Slashdot, a site where 'nerds' communicate and if someone raises a point that appears to be obviously false, I am not going to assume he or she needs help and I am more likely to assume things such as this are flamebait, trolling and so on.
That much was obvious. You wern't even giving constructive criticism about anything in your original post. Just bland statements that could really apply to anything.
Actually I was sharing my experiences, and my opinion. This is a social thing that has merit and value. No I didn't wish to file a bug report, provide "constructive" criticism to people who'd just ignore it, or go into explicit detail about my experiences. This isn't a committee for the improvement of Linux. Yet you seem to come here expecting that...or perhaps you're just being dishonest and like so many other fools who hear an opinion they don't like are just trying to tell me to shut up, clutching at whatever criticism suits them for an excuse.
You attack me with a vague garbage hypocritical statement like "Just bland statements that could really apply to anything." If you're going to attack me on the basis of a lack of thoroughness and accuracy, and a lack of constructive feedback, the least you could do is actually provide something constructive, coherent and accurate yourself. Instead I get a vague inaccurate criticism which is a very shallow cover for "shut up". How am I even suppose to take your gibbering seriously?
It gets annoying hearing the same tired 'memes' on Slashdot over and over with nothing real backing them up.
Oh lookie he learnt a new word: 'meme'. Give him a pat. There are plenty of 'memes' I don't particularly care for here. Linux is ready for the desktop is one of them. Yet you support that and decide to attack my opinion. Just what exactly do you hope to achieve? I'm not going to change my mind. I'm certainly not going to shut up. All you've done is created hostility in a pompous, arrogant and asinie way. You really do lack any social skill, and if I were you I wouldn't be picking on other people's ability to construct an argument, or for being unconstructive.
I think sloths are cute.
Go mate with one then, just don't procreate for heaven sake.
I am not a helper here, nor is it my intention to promote Linux on Slashdot either. If you want hugs, you might want to try http://www.ubuntuforums.com/ or such.
What an arrogant self congratulatory pratt you truly are. Now you're attacking other Unix users because they're not as 'lite as you. I guess they're only collateral damage. Again no social skills at all, and a complete lack of comprehension as to why what you're saying only damages both your argument and the software you profess to enjoy. What a tosser! Idiots like you are one very major reason the whole "Linux is ready for the desktop" mantra won't be true for some time. You're very amusing though and I'm a little bored today so I hope you respond with something else stupid and weak so I can pick it apart. I hope whatever the hell you do for a living is done with better technique than your debating.
That is where we differ, I am far more descriptive when I have issues with a OS. I don't summarize my OS issues with a simple blanket statement that can apply to anything.
That's right. That's where we differ. You are a condescending prat who's happy to adopt a superior tone. I wasn't filing a bug report, and your response indicates your social skills are on par with that of a sloth. The same social skills and attitude I might add that make Linux horrible for a non-hobbyist end user.
As a hobbyist Linux is fine, but I have less and less time to be a hobbyist these days and as an end user an OS that doesn't run the most applications and still has faults and bugs that require the end user to learn all sorts of intricate details is not suitable.
Do or do not. There is no 'try'.
Sorry coward. I stopped lifting my philosophy from sci-fi when I was 12. Suggest you do the same. Oh and stop collecting starwars memorabilia. It's not going to make you rich.
what pushed you over the edge to use XP
I had a look at the Emac I had to babysit at work. The interface wasn't that different to the crap I remember from high school with the original Macs and Mac Plus. I've never liked it. I might get use to it if I had a lot of money to spend trying to use it for the desktop, but then I couldn't use half the software I've grown up with. Chessmaster, Flight Simulators and r/c flight simulators in terms of gaming, and all the tools I'm use to. It's only in the last couple of years that running windows on a Mac was possible and I need windows for the apps and handful of games.
Plus their lock-in proprietary model irks me. I don't think I'll ever get over the fact that I had to beg and plead as a kid for my parents to drive hours to go shopping for software. (This was after convincing them to spend big money because the IIe was better! Wish I'd bought a fucking C64. Would have saved my parents about $4000 too!). Oh there was mail order but then you took the hit for delivery which wasn't small in the mid 80s. The fact that Apple were able to suddenly prevent software sales through department stores and go to their own "resellers" meant I was cut off. Even now it's stil the case only for hardware - if ou buy a Mac, you have to take it to Apple if it breaks. If my PC breaks I can replace the part myself with bits bought from any one of a number of suppliers a few minutes from either work or home. Laptops are different of course, which is why I looked at Apple for my last laptop, till I saw the graphics cards and prices and just laughed.
I bought my wife and I iPods a couple of years back. Had problems with them too, and at the time they were refusing return/exchange which isn't legal here. My click wheel still doesn't work right and I can't be bothered trying to get it fixed. Basically Apple's been nothing but a headache to deal with. Their stuff has given me lots of headaches. So has Windows but the difference with Windows is that often _I_ can do something to fix them besides go running to a single company. The user base is bigger so there's more knowledge on troubleshooting. Unfortunately with WGA, Vista and the whole DRM fiasco (crippling machines to call them "trusted"! Weasel words!), MS has gone to the dogs as far as I'm concerned. I really don't know where I'll be once I can no longer run XP.
I don't think Linux is "ready for the desktop" either.
Oh God, not this crap again.
Funny, that's what I say every time I take the plunge and try out a Linux distro. I must admit I'm trying less frequently lately.
Hey if the Mac laptops came with a decent video card, I _might_ be tempted. I'm using Dells right now because for half the price I'd spend on a decent Mac, I get a Dell with a good video card. The 5 laptops I've bought over the last 10 years or so haven't been without problems though. I've had to run non-standard drivers on my latest to prevent BSOD. My last one was okay, but the one before that broke due to what appears to be a design flaw - a case rubs against motherboard, motherboard died - had it fixed under extended warranty obtained through credit card purchase but only after 4-5 months of headaches like having to get Dell to say it would have been covered under warranty had it happened in the warranty period. Then there's the fact that tech support doesn't show up for the appointments they arrange (repeatedly). So if I thought i could lay out more coin and get something better I would. However I'm afraid I'd just be laying out coin for hassles by a different bunch of underpaid customer "support" drones (not their fault) so I keep the coin and get Dell with extra warranty for half the cost.
By the way I think Vista is less ready for the desktop than Linux. What a pile of poo.
It's unpopular because it's a generalization. For me, it works perfectly.
It's unpopular because a large portion of the community uses and/or contributes to Linux. Its not a generalizaiton though. "Ready for the desktop" has never meant "ready for a computer hobbyist desktop". It's very widely accepted to mean popular for the mainstream - users who's only interest in using computers is as tools or appliances to do something they are actually interested in.
I suffered years ago from Apple. I bought a IIe at a premium just as the Mac came out, then Apple decided to close distribution and I had to drive a couple of hours to get any software legally (whereas I WAs able to buy software from a department store previously).
I think if you get screwed over by a company you should learn from it. Apple does dubious things even now. Like crippling iTunes. I also had to babysit an eMac at work a few years ago and saw it die horribly within a month (motherboard died), then had to jump through hoops with support that was actually worse than most of my experiences with Dell. In terms of general tactics I don't think Apple have changed one bit. Not what I'd call a pleasure to deal with.
By the way you come across as a Mac fanboy.
ID my ass
Yup, that's yours all right.
I knew it! The government is putting RFID chips in everyone's ass! Hand me my tinfoil hat. I'm going in.
Sounds to me like a bunch of Perl coders with a few million lines of corporate code who thought this would be easier than learning another language for one specific smallish project.
It's called putting all your eggs in one basket. When the language is no longer popular they'll be begging anyone with experience of it to join and trying to rewrite the entire monstrosity. Don't believe me? Think about Oracle forms. Half my job is replacing legacy code. What you're describing is a neat way of creating a HUGE legacy codebase for the future. Excellent for the programmer's job security. Not so good for the employer.
Wouldn't it be funny if OSX ended up better able to load old exes than Vista.
I'm no fan of OSX, but nor am I a fan of Vista. Unpopular as the view is I don't think Linux is "ready for the desktop" either. SO I'm going to be one of these sad people that clings to XP for as long as they can. The bottom line is I can't stand Vista for its restrictions (Microsoft has been behaving very badly in the last couple of years) and I can't stand OSX because I've suffered badly many years ago due to Apple's tactics and my own naivety as a child. I use XP at work and at home begrudingly. As far as I'm concerned the more cross compatibility the better since less of the apps I've spent time finding and learning to use will die a premature death.
I'm paid for results, not for originality. If people provide code on the web as tutorial purposes or just as a friendly piece of help then I would be going against my job to not use it.
Presumably you're also paid to behave ethically and protect your company from exposure to litigation. Just because someone's allowed you to look at their code, it doesn't give you the right to use it without permission or contrary to the permission given.
Personally I don't believe copyright in it's current form is a good thing. I believe that an author should be entitled to compensation for their work, but not to control over it's use once made public. However that is NOT how the current legal system operates and pretending that it is exposes you and your company to danger. I'm glad you're not my employee.
I don't know how you're misreading this.
/. for advice.
The guy found code in the company codebase, that is also in a forum. If he doesn't report it at all, you're right he doesn't look incompetent, but he's posting for advice so clearly he wants to report it.
The suggestion from the parent I responded to was something like - Just pretend the code on the forum was stolen from your company codebase and report that. Then it looks like you're looking out for the company and when they compare dates they'll realize the company codebase includes the copy not the other way round. My response is that if you do that you look incompetent because it suggests you didn't think to compare the date on the forum post to the date on the company code.
Not only that but if it goes too far before the company realizes (through more incompetence) that theirs is the copy, legal threats could be made etc. to the original developer.
Also who knows what actually transpired. Perhaps someone within the company posted the code under an alias, or perhaps the code was copied with permission but not correctly attributed. Perhaps the code appears in the company code base on a different project even earlier than the forum post and was therefore leaked by someone in the company. Who knows. It requires proper investigation. Burying it or playing stupid won't help anyone get to the truth or serve to protect anyone's rights, which is what I assume the OP was after when he came to
So the exploded battery broke his ribs and spine, but couldn't muster enough force to rip the shirt pocket? Give me a break.
Would you prefer a spine, or a rib? Nice pocket you have there. Would be a pity if someone were to place a deadly cell phone in it.