We do need to stop referring to this stuff as 'Artificial Intelligence', because it isn't. 'Neural Networks', 'Deep Learning Algorithms', and so on, are not really 'intellgence' at all, they're just clever programming. Ambitious marketing people the news media, TV, and movies, they've all got people believing these things are actually human-level intelligent when they're clearly and objectively not, none of these pieces of software can 'think', they're not 'conscious', they don't really make 'decisions', not the way humans do, and most of all they do not have any capacity whatsoever to understand humans, no matter how big or fast the hardware it's running on is, and never will because it is the wrong approach. IF and WHEN we ever truly understand the mechanics of our own minds as a complete working system, not just little tiny parts of it, then we might be able to build real, actual Artificially Intelligent machines. But that day is nowhere NEAR now, we dont' even have the instrumentation to 'see' how a human brain really works. As-is, these machines they inaccurately term 'AI', need to be monitored by a human being at all times just like any other piece of automation software, because it will inevitably screw something up otherwise. Always take the results from these 'expert systems' with a huge grain of salt, filtered through your own actually intellgent, thinking brain, never trust it 100%. When we in reality have something walking around and talking to us like in I, Robot, then I'll change my opinion, but I seriously doubt that will happen in my lifetime -- if ever.
They'll lie about it, the risk of being caught being small, since they can conceal it, and someone has to be looking for the ways they collect information. If and when they get caught they'll just say "Oops! We didn't even know we were doing that, sorry!" pay a small fine and continue on unabated, after firing the person(s) responsible for being so sloppy about covering their tracks, getting people to replace them who *can* cover their tracks better, and continue collecting the same information.
Since the Trump administration and their supporters don't believe in human-influenced climate change they don't believe that cutting CO2 emissions matters at all and furthermore think it's just some conspiracy against the people to control their lives or whatever the hell it is they think. So anything that benefits the environment or hurts corporate profits is anathema to them.
If they don't have to work to make them affordable so they can actually sell them, then they become 'luxury' items that are expensive, and they'll go back to making obsolete highly inefficient incandescent bulbs they can sell for cheap and still make wild profits on. Meanwhile LED bulbs will become so hideously expensive that nobody but rich environmentalists will buy them. Taken to it's logical extreme manufacturers would at some point throw up their hands and say "We can't make any money on these so we're not going to manufacture them anymore, oh well!".
Listen, FUD spreader: there is no point in making people panic. What's going to happen is going to happen. What we need to do about it is mitigate the negative effects as much as possible. That means pressuring corporate types to actually give a damn about people instead of just profits. It's what's best for society. So how about you and all the other Negative Nellies stop being gloom-and-doom? It serves NO ONE.
Anyhow, the point is that perhaps instead of simply throwing a lot of people in the trash, then having to deal with them when they revolt, it might be a better idea to plan ahead.
Exactly; you get it.
Ironic that we're talking about 'automation' and 'robots' allegedly taking people's jobs, when corporations all-too-often treat humans like robots -- and as you say, 'throw them in the trash' like some broken or obsolete robots. Humans cannot become obsolete. You might even consider the concept to be an extreme form of racism: not based on color of skin, ethnicity, or anything you'd normally associate with 'racism'. I can't even find the right word or words to describe this concept that just came into my head but I think you get the idea.
In any case: yeah, people are not just machines, that you can toss on the scrap-heap, and expect them to just sit there and quietly die, they'll fight to survive. Pressed hard enough they'll turn to crime just to survive. Concentrate large enough numbers of them, leaders will emerge from the crowd; now you've got an army, and an insurgency/civil war on your hands. Has happened before, can happen again. I'd like to think that any government with any sense at all and any ability to think beyond the next election cycle will see the precursors of such a thing and take steps to ensure that people aren't just tossed aside.
Here's the thing: I believe we need to get away to some extent at least from what you're referring to as 'allocation efficiency'. People matter, and having entire swaths of your population left out in the cold (literally and figuratively) in the long run isn't good for your society as a whole. 'Profit above all else' doesn't serve your society-as-a-whole, it only serves your company/corporation.
If you really need me to discuss how it is that leaving people to starve and die isn't good for your society and country we can get into that, but I'm hoping it's self-explanatory.
How about we don't make the same mistakes as last time and make it not suck for large amount of the population, eh?
Sure, we can do that. All we have to do is rein in Corporatism and out-of-control Capitalism. Let me know how that's working for you.
Sarcasm aside at least we have some controls on corporations now, more than we used to, workers have some rights and something of a voice. But it can still be very far from fair because corporations have the money and workers don't, so they can still be overrun by legions of lawyers and drowned in legal bills trying to fight things. It rapidly becomes a war of financial attrition.
..Society's only opinion was "sucks to be with you".
If I'm not mistaken, that was only the beginning of their 'opinion'. Then there was Debtors' Prisons, indentured servitude (a slightly sanitized way of saying 'slavery'), no minimum wage, and so on -- and that was just if you stayed on the right side of The Law; if you didn't, then your life was more-or-less over as anything resembling a human being, because you'd go to prison and maybe never leave there alive. People think prison can be hard on people now, but back then animals on a farm being raised for slaughter were treated better than convicts, there was no medical care for convicts, no programs of any kind to rehabilitate them, it was just punish punish punish, and if that killed you or turned you into a complete monster, then that's too bad, you're a convict, you didn't deserve any 'second chances' (order of magnitude worse than it is today). As an aside to the subject the thing we have today that begins to rival the barbarism of those times is the 'for-profit prisons', and the jacked-up, skewed legal system we have, that profiles and targets specific demographics, almost ensuring that they end up back in The System -- and are used as virtual slave labor in these 'for profit' prisons. But I digress..
..and we currently have a full employment economy
That, sadly, is not as true as you think it is. If you account for the people who have given up looking for work entirely and others that can't be counted, the unemployment figures are much much higher than they report them as.
Do these 'reports' in these 'newspapers' actually have any real credibility, or are they as full of shit as I think they are?
For fuck's sake people, every time there's a technological breakthrough of some sort human civilization has gone through this shit, and it's always temporary.
Humans by definition cannot become obsolete we are the tool makers and tool users the tools do not make us obsolete we make the TOOLS obsolete.
Seriously people need to get a grip, and the FUD spreaders need to have their shit slapped until they learn to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
..torch and pitchfork psychosis
You sure sound like you picked a side to me, at least all the way back in 2016. Care to deny that?
Are you trolling me? You might be. But I guess I'll feed you anyway: The son-of-a-bitch surrounds himself with criminals and ne'er-do-wells; that's the 'duck' part.
Furthermore, as previously stated, he sure seems to act like a mob boss: get your underlings to do the dirty work, so your hands stay clean. They go to jail for you, out of loyalty, so you don't have to go to jail. Theoretical? Sure. Probable? I believe it is. I'm far from alone in that, too.
If you really want to just throw up your hands and put on a MAGA hat, then it is also my opinion that you're gullible. But I don't think the son-of-a-bitch belongs in the Whitehouse, never did, and I'll cheer when he finally leaves. It'll probably take until I'm dead of old age to repair all the damage him and his cronies have done, but with any luck it can all be repaired.
You've already made your opinions clear enough so now I invite you to not bother responding with your insults towards me for my beliefs and opinions. You're not going to change my mind and I really don't care about your opinions either so just don't bother.
Here's a radical idea: how about people actually LEARN THINGS instead of expecting everything to be spoon-fed to them? I'm not directing that at you by the way I'd directing it at what appears to be an entire generation that can't be bothered to sit still long enough to learn actual electronics.
Slashdot Mirror
We do need to stop referring to this stuff as 'Artificial Intelligence', because it isn't. 'Neural Networks', 'Deep Learning Algorithms', and so on, are not really 'intellgence' at all, they're just clever programming. Ambitious marketing people the news media, TV, and movies, they've all got people believing these things are actually human-level intelligent when they're clearly and objectively not, none of these pieces of software can 'think', they're not 'conscious', they don't really make 'decisions', not the way humans do, and most of all they do not have any capacity whatsoever to understand humans, no matter how big or fast the hardware it's running on is, and never will because it is the wrong approach. IF and WHEN we ever truly understand the mechanics of our own minds as a complete working system, not just little tiny parts of it, then we might be able to build real, actual Artificially Intelligent machines. But that day is nowhere NEAR now, we dont' even have the instrumentation to 'see' how a human brain really works. As-is, these machines they inaccurately term 'AI', need to be monitored by a human being at all times just like any other piece of automation software, because it will inevitably screw something up otherwise. Always take the results from these 'expert systems' with a huge grain of salt, filtered through your own actually intellgent, thinking brain, never trust it 100%. When we in reality have something walking around and talking to us like in I, Robot, then I'll change my opinion, but I seriously doubt that will happen in my lifetime -- if ever.
They'll lie about it, the risk of being caught being small, since they can conceal it, and someone has to be looking for the ways they collect information. If and when they get caught they'll just say "Oops! We didn't even know we were doing that, sorry!" pay a small fine and continue on unabated, after firing the person(s) responsible for being so sloppy about covering their tracks, getting people to replace them who *can* cover their tracks better, and continue collecting the same information.
Since the Trump administration and their supporters don't believe in human-influenced climate change they don't believe that cutting CO2 emissions matters at all and furthermore think it's just some conspiracy against the people to control their lives or whatever the hell it is they think. So anything that benefits the environment or hurts corporate profits is anathema to them.
If they don't have to work to make them affordable so they can actually sell them, then they become 'luxury' items that are expensive, and they'll go back to making obsolete highly inefficient incandescent bulbs they can sell for cheap and still make wild profits on. Meanwhile LED bulbs will become so hideously expensive that nobody but rich environmentalists will buy them. Taken to it's logical extreme manufacturers would at some point throw up their hands and say "We can't make any money on these so we're not going to manufacture them anymore, oh well!".
Hear, hear.
'Planned obsolescence' should be a prosecutable crime.
AC didn't say it was 'mediocre' or 'bad' either; merely posting the comment at all implies he thinks it's 'good' somehow. Shut up.
Or it might not.
Listen, FUD spreader: there is no point in making people panic. What's going to happen is going to happen. What we need to do about it is mitigate the negative effects as much as possible. That means pressuring corporate types to actually give a damn about people instead of just profits. It's what's best for society. So how about you and all the other Negative Nellies stop being gloom-and-doom? It serves NO ONE.
Anyhow, the point is that perhaps instead of simply throwing a lot of people in the trash, then having to deal with them when they revolt, it might be a better idea to plan ahead.
Exactly; you get it.
Ironic that we're talking about 'automation' and 'robots' allegedly taking people's jobs, when corporations all-too-often treat humans like robots -- and as you say, 'throw them in the trash' like some broken or obsolete robots. Humans cannot become obsolete. You might even consider the concept to be an extreme form of racism: not based on color of skin, ethnicity, or anything you'd normally associate with 'racism'. I can't even find the right word or words to describe this concept that just came into my head but I think you get the idea.
In any case: yeah, people are not just machines, that you can toss on the scrap-heap, and expect them to just sit there and quietly die, they'll fight to survive. Pressed hard enough they'll turn to crime just to survive. Concentrate large enough numbers of them, leaders will emerge from the crowd; now you've got an army, and an insurgency/civil war on your hands. Has happened before, can happen again. I'd like to think that any government with any sense at all and any ability to think beyond the next election cycle will see the precursors of such a thing and take steps to ensure that people aren't just tossed aside.
Here's the thing: I believe we need to get away to some extent at least from what you're referring to as 'allocation efficiency'. People matter, and having entire swaths of your population left out in the cold (literally and figuratively) in the long run isn't good for your society as a whole. 'Profit above all else' doesn't serve your society-as-a-whole, it only serves your company/corporation.
If you really need me to discuss how it is that leaving people to starve and die isn't good for your society and country we can get into that, but I'm hoping it's self-explanatory.
How about we don't make the same mistakes as last time and make it not suck for large amount of the population, eh?
Sure, we can do that. All we have to do is rein in Corporatism and out-of-control Capitalism. Let me know how that's working for you.
Sarcasm aside at least we have some controls on corporations now, more than we used to, workers have some rights and something of a voice. But it can still be very far from fair because corporations have the money and workers don't, so they can still be overrun by legions of lawyers and drowned in legal bills trying to fight things. It rapidly becomes a war of financial attrition.
Sure, sure.. and it had strings attached to it.
..Society's only opinion was "sucks to be with you".
If I'm not mistaken, that was only the beginning of their 'opinion'. Then there was Debtors' Prisons, indentured servitude (a slightly sanitized way of saying 'slavery'), no minimum wage, and so on -- and that was just if you stayed on the right side of The Law; if you didn't, then your life was more-or-less over as anything resembling a human being, because you'd go to prison and maybe never leave there alive. People think prison can be hard on people now, but back then animals on a farm being raised for slaughter were treated better than convicts, there was no medical care for convicts, no programs of any kind to rehabilitate them, it was just punish punish punish, and if that killed you or turned you into a complete monster, then that's too bad, you're a convict, you didn't deserve any 'second chances' (order of magnitude worse than it is today). As an aside to the subject the thing we have today that begins to rival the barbarism of those times is the 'for-profit prisons', and the jacked-up, skewed legal system we have, that profiles and targets specific demographics, almost ensuring that they end up back in The System -- and are used as virtual slave labor in these 'for profit' prisons. But I digress..
..and we currently have a full employment economy
That, sadly, is not as true as you think it is. If you account for the people who have given up looking for work entirely and others that can't be counted, the unemployment figures are much much higher than they report them as.
If you actually think McDonalds is 'good', then you have no taste.
Seriously, do people still eat that garbage? It's food-substitute at best.
No you dumbass AC out-of-control capitalism means businesses employ cheap foreign workers so their profits are larger.
Do these 'reports' in these 'newspapers' actually have any real credibility, or are they as full of shit as I think they are?
For fuck's sake people, every time there's a technological breakthrough of some sort human civilization has gone through this shit, and it's always temporary.
Humans by definition cannot become obsolete we are the tool makers and tool users the tools do not make us obsolete we make the TOOLS obsolete.
Seriously people need to get a grip, and the FUD spreaders need to have their shit slapped until they learn to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
..torch and pitchfork psychosis
You sure sound like you picked a side to me, at least all the way back in 2016. Care to deny that?
Are you trolling me? You might be. But I guess I'll feed you anyway: The son-of-a-bitch surrounds himself with criminals and ne'er-do-wells; that's the 'duck' part.
Furthermore, as previously stated, he sure seems to act like a mob boss: get your underlings to do the dirty work, so your hands stay clean. They go to jail for you, out of loyalty, so you don't have to go to jail. Theoretical? Sure. Probable? I believe it is. I'm far from alone in that, too.
If you really want to just throw up your hands and put on a MAGA hat, then it is also my opinion that you're gullible. But I don't think the son-of-a-bitch belongs in the Whitehouse, never did, and I'll cheer when he finally leaves. It'll probably take until I'm dead of old age to repair all the damage him and his cronies have done, but with any luck it can all be repaired.
You've already made your opinions clear enough so now I invite you to not bother responding with your insults towards me for my beliefs and opinions. You're not going to change my mind and I really don't care about your opinions either so just don't bother.
Money=power.
Continue missing the overall point if it makes you happy or serves your chosen narrative, I guess.
How dare you ruin my sarcastic fun by trying to make this a serious discussion! :p
:-P
It's a stupid idea. It'll fall flat on it's face. I'm openly mocking it.
Everything has to come down to money!
That's what's got us into pretty much all the messes we're all currently in!
Here's a radical idea: how about people actually LEARN THINGS instead of expecting everything to be spoon-fed to them? I'm not directing that at you by the way I'd directing it at what appears to be an entire generation that can't be bothered to sit still long enough to learn actual electronics.