I also know so many people that either developed or spent a lot of time creating music and have almost no money. They could only live on what the music brings them in terms of money, and to see somebody ripping them off is about the worst thing that can happen in the world.
Well lets see. I'm completely guessing here, but I'd be willing to bet the people he's talking about here, with "almost no money", are living comfortably above the poverty line. Call it a hunch, I just dont think The Woz see's many Real Poor People at the country club.
So, ripping those people off is the "about the worst thing that can happen in the world" ? Read a newspaper, you marie antoinette piece of garbage.
Wow, you completely missed the point of Free Software. If needs develop for the kernel of this operating system running on these $100 laptops, for example the CPU or other major components change to keep the price down, we wont have to rely on our corporate patriarch to come out with a new version. The driving force in what hardware is chosen will continue to be the nice guys who wanted to make this project happen.
I've never changed my kernel either, yet I still am constantly benefiting from the Free/Open Source development model. Take that!
In a true "free market", the details of the goods are "free" as in freedom. Go quickly read a wikipedia article on The Market for Lemons. There is full disclosure to the consumers about what they are buying in a true free market. This is the only way you get all the predicted "goodies" out of a free market (Where the best man for the job fills it, the consumers are stuffed with the goods they value, etc). We dont have that. We have advertisements that aim to misrepresent the products and confuse consumers and Microsoft's bundling of their AIM client, in my opinion, falls into this category. It subverts the "free market" behavior and allows things like Internet Explorer or Windows (Or less-than-high-quality Lemons) to overtake the market and destroy the (somtimes niche) markets for higher quality goods.
To the person who claims this was not a "loss" for consumers, and not a "win" for big industry, I think you are making a petty, semantic argument. The lawsuit aimed to get the client out of windows, right? Did it happen? Or did microsoft throw some hush-money and get to keep doing what they were doing? Did they get to keep subverting the spirit of a "free" market and unfairly push their client? Seems like a victory to me.
By the settlement, Microsoft will pay Daum $30 million, including $10 million in cash. In return, Daum would drop its lawsuit.
OK, but "justice has not been served". The problem of unfairly putting Microsoft's IM client in a favorable light is still there, and this company will still lose their market share to them, and consumers will still be worse off for having lost some competition.
Winner: The one with the deepest pockets! Subverting the not-quite-free-market to hurt consumers everywhere!
When I brew beer, I grind the barley into a mush, add water, rest at particular temperatures to get a particular profile of sugar and starch, add hops, maybe some hop aroma oil (sounding familiar?), yeast.. Let it ferment.. When it goes in the bottle, add some surcrose to kick up the yeast again and carbonate it. Different sugar + starch profiles affect flavor, smell, ability to hold a head (foam).. And sometimes, if I dont want to clean all the bottles, I stick it in a keg and inject nitrogen!!
All this similarity, happening in my GARAGE.
Sorry, it is a stupid patent, and unfortunately, you are acting exactly like the green patent clerk who accepted this trash, "Wow!!! I've never heard of any of this!! Sounds brilliant!!"
Listen: The example of Blind or Visually Impaired access is PRECISELY why an open document format should be used. OK I admit it, I didnt RTFA, but it sounds like blind + visually impaired people are complaining because their microsoft software that enables them to read documents doesn't support the open document format. Well guess what, that'll take about a month for the free software community to fix, and by fix I mean, support whatever reading mechanism these blind people have.
Imagine if the situation was reversed, and we were asking microsoft to add support for the visually impaired. Or asking microsoft to give out a free reader so poor people could get access to the state's documents. Or asking microsoft to make a Linux, OSX, and Solaris port of that reader for people who exercise their right to choose. Or some brand new ailment appears where people need to read their fonts in dayglo rainbow colors or they have seizures. The FOSS community will be able to handle that situation _much faster_ than Microsoft.
This is the _reason_ mass is switching to ODF, so as needs change, the community can change the software. This is a safer bet than asking microsoft, crossing fingers, and hoping they decide it will be more profitable to do what we ask then to ignore us.
Maybe they caught us with our pants down on this one?
PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO DEMONSTRATE WHY F/OSS IS THE RIGHT CHOICE.
While the comparison has some merit, more research needs to be done before drawing any conclusion.
Why, whenever rich industries are involved, do we take the obviously backwards stance that "Until you prove its harmless, lets assume its probably not."
How about, keep that shit out of my stainguard pants until you show me *why* its safe.
man, I'm so shocked you were able to find exceptions!!
Point is, I've written some rather large software and ported it no problem. If you want to be a geek and talk about how you shouldnt assume "bash is in/bin", I guess thats more important then the fact that I wrote a GPS chartplotter _complete w/ the interface to talk to an actual handheld GPS_, never thinking about portability, and was able to just take it off my linux box and compile it on an OS-X box changing _2_ lines of code.
But you are right, porting it from MFC would have been _way_ easier then changing my hard-coded paths to the/dev filesystem. Apparantly I just dont know what I'm talking about.
Anyways my take on the debate: Multiple times I've written some simple software without even CONSIDERING portability, written on my (Linux/BSD/OS-X) box, and when the time came to make it run on a new platform (Linux/BSD/OS-X), it did, with barely any modifications. So who cares, target any UNIX, they all rock, and you probably wont end up permanently stuck to one of them.
Everyone works AT microsoft. Everyone comes in at 9 to 5. Its a lot easier to manage "a bunch of little programs" when all the developers are on the same campus. Its a lot harder when the developers are all across the globe, with different schedules, all stitching together their communication with/no central management authority/ to make sure everyone can communicate effectively. People who are reading this without thinking will say "Whats Linus, if not a central management authority?" OK, find a piece of code you dont understand in the linux kernel, written by someone who speaks a language you dont understand. Go ask Linus to facilitate getting that guy to explain his code to you. See how far you get. Nowhere. Now try it at microsoft, asking your manager.
One would think that because of this, Linux would be a mess, but we've seen the opposite is true: For projects to continue to evolve rather than quickly die off, they require _rigid_ structure and sane, intuitive modularity to support the OSS development model. Projects that turn into spaghetti code too fast just fizzle out and never make it into my slackware distro. While at microsoft, they have this whole management system that makes it easier to support spaghetti code. OSS has a much more brutal "natural selection" process that is constantly favoring modular, readable, easy-to-learn code bases.
Plus, spaghetti code is not fun, so hobbiest programmers arent going to waste their time with it.
Thats why so much OSS software is structured so well.
Did Patrick ever tell the FOSS community about his illness? I remember he sort of called on everyone for help in diagnosing his problem, and then when he finally got it squared away, he never told anyone what the result was. Kind of against the whole "you tell me what you did, and if I learn something new, I'll tell it to you" spirit of F/OSS...
We're not being prevented from including features, and that's the strength of the settlement that we reached with the Justice Department and others. There's quite a bit of process we go through to make sure that the way we're putting them in and exposing them to third parties, that we're meeting all the requirements of that. But it's not preventing us from being very, very innovative and making it as rich as we want to.
Nuclear powered submarines can travel as fast as 25 miles per hour. Let's assume that these submarines would be dragging an ocean plowing apparatus that slows the submarine down to 15 miles per hour. If the ocean plowing apparatus stretched a half mile wide...
How much power does the submarine you are refering to have? Can we move a half mile wide swath of inches of water with one of them? How much does that much water weigh? You need to figure this stuff out before you start theorizing, crackpot. Lets instead assume the plowing apparatus stretched 50 miles wide! Problem solved!
anyone remember the Wazzup virus? It attacked MS Word and would randomly place the word "wazzup" in your document when you saved it or printed it. God it was beautiful. So many book reports with "wazzups" circled in red ink....
I used to work for Edgenet, which later was bought by Citadel communications and renamed to E-fortress. The whole time I was there, I would talk to Jeff Thompson (COO of Towerstream) about how what he should be doing is using Citadel's radio infrastructure to make wireless internet service. Sure, its over-simplified and I was a young highschooler, but isn't it kind of wack that now that eFortress has crumbled, he's now baron of this big wireless internet company, and he wont even reply to my emails?/whine
How do you feel about the amount of power corporations like Microsoft have gotten in the past few decades? With industry-standard non-compete contracts dictating the terms in which employees can procure employment [even after there relationship with their previous employer has ended (Kai-Fu Lee)], and software patents allowing science and mathematics to be locked in company coffers, don't you think corporate America is getting a little too much control over American life?
Lets make sure we understand the context here; we are living in a country where the Surpreme Court has ruled that a larger company can use immenent domain to grab the land of a smaller company, or private individual (assuming there is potential for more tax revenue as a result).
Yeah, I can't think of ANY japanese car company that started out with making "junk" that ran strange, and looked cheap, and rotted away on the salty winter roads, and then suddenly became synonymous with quality and dependability. Anyways time to hop in my camry and get to work!
To me, the white-ish noise of a fan doesn't bother me nearly as much as the clicks and clacks of my coworkers mashing their keys and mouse buttons. Forget the fans, just stop shipping mice and keyboards that INTENTIONALLY make noise every time you do anything! Why does my mouse button need to make a click that can be heard 20 feet away?
No. Lucky for you other people wanted to try new filesystems and new process schedulers, and thats why Linux got so good so fast. And will continue to stay good. Its a good idea magnet. Thats good for you, too! wheee!!!!
"Most anything worthwhile that you can do in Linux, you can do in OS X."
That is simply not true. And linux CERTAINLY does not dream of becoming proprietary software. I think you've missed the WHOLE POINT OF THE F/OSS COMMUNITY, if some proprietary software with a better user interface can come along and make you dump linux.
If I want to try out some fancy new process scheduling idea I had, guess what, I can do that in linux. If I had some new filesystem I wanted to implement, I can do that in linux. I dont need to reinvent a whole new OS to try out a few small ideas. Another approach to trying these ideas would be to get a job at an OS vendor. Seems like a lot more commitment then simply downloading the kernel and reading a few wikis.
Linux is a platform for creative geeks to try things out, and the innovations that have come from it are free for all of us to use, even proprietary software vendors.
Also, programming for the linux platform means you'll be able to compile your stuff on a zillion different hardware platforms. Not just the ones in sexy magnesium cases. Or just the ones w/ powerpcs and pentiums.
I dont think linux dreams of being OS-X at all. I think *you* dream of linux being OS-X. And thats awesome, maybe with your support the GUI will get better. I dream of it having feature X. Maybe I'll put it in. Wheee!!! get it yet?
Slashdot Mirror
I also know so many people that either developed or spent a lot of time creating music and have almost no money. They could only live on what the music brings them in terms of money, and to see somebody ripping them off is about the worst thing that can happen in the world.
Well lets see. I'm completely guessing here, but I'd be willing to bet the people he's talking about here, with "almost no money", are living comfortably above the poverty line. Call it a hunch, I just dont think The Woz see's many Real Poor People at the country club.
So, ripping those people off is the "about the worst thing that can happen in the world" ? Read a newspaper, you marie antoinette piece of garbage.
Wow, you completely missed the point of Free Software. If needs develop for the kernel of this operating system running on these $100 laptops, for example the CPU or other major components change to keep the price down, we wont have to rely on our corporate patriarch to come out with a new version. The driving force in what hardware is chosen will continue to be the nice guys who wanted to make this project happen.
I've never changed my kernel either, yet I still am constantly benefiting from the Free/Open Source development model. Take that!
In a true "free market", the details of the goods are "free" as in freedom. Go quickly read a wikipedia article on The Market for Lemons. There is full disclosure to the consumers about what they are buying in a true free market. This is the only way you get all the predicted "goodies" out of a free market (Where the best man for the job fills it, the consumers are stuffed with the goods they value, etc). We dont have that. We have advertisements that aim to misrepresent the products and confuse consumers and Microsoft's bundling of their AIM client, in my opinion, falls into this category. It subverts the "free market" behavior and allows things like Internet Explorer or Windows (Or less-than-high-quality Lemons) to overtake the market and destroy the (somtimes niche) markets for higher quality goods.
To the person who claims this was not a "loss" for consumers, and not a "win" for big industry, I think you are making a petty, semantic argument. The lawsuit aimed to get the client out of windows, right? Did it happen? Or did microsoft throw some hush-money and get to keep doing what they were doing? Did they get to keep subverting the spirit of a "free" market and unfairly push their client? Seems like a victory to me.
By the settlement, Microsoft will pay Daum $30 million, including $10 million in cash. In return, Daum would drop its lawsuit.
OK, but "justice has not been served". The problem of unfairly putting Microsoft's IM client in a favorable light is still there, and this company will still lose their market share to them, and consumers will still be worse off for having lost some competition.
Winner: The one with the deepest pockets! Subverting the not-quite-free-market to hurt consumers everywhere!
When I brew beer, I grind the barley into a mush, add water, rest at particular temperatures to get a particular profile of sugar and starch, add hops, maybe some hop aroma oil (sounding familiar?), yeast.. Let it ferment.. When it goes in the bottle, add some surcrose to kick up the yeast again and carbonate it. Different sugar + starch profiles affect flavor, smell, ability to hold a head (foam).. And sometimes, if I dont want to clean all the bottles, I stick it in a keg and inject nitrogen!!
All this similarity, happening in my GARAGE.
Sorry, it is a stupid patent, and unfortunately, you are acting exactly like the green patent clerk who accepted this trash, "Wow!!! I've never heard of any of this!! Sounds brilliant!!"
We need to get on the phone with these lawmakers.
Listen: The example of Blind or Visually Impaired access is PRECISELY why an open document format should be used. OK I admit it, I didnt RTFA, but it sounds like blind + visually impaired people are complaining because their microsoft software that enables them to read documents doesn't support the open document format. Well guess what, that'll take about a month for the free software community to fix, and by fix I mean, support whatever reading mechanism these blind people have.
Imagine if the situation was reversed, and we were asking microsoft to add support for the visually impaired. Or asking microsoft to give out a free reader so poor people could get access to the state's documents. Or asking microsoft to make a Linux, OSX, and Solaris port of that reader for people who exercise their right to choose. Or some brand new ailment appears where people need to read their fonts in dayglo rainbow colors or they have seizures. The FOSS community will be able to handle that situation _much faster_ than Microsoft.
This is the _reason_ mass is switching to ODF, so as needs change, the community can change the software. This is a safer bet than asking microsoft, crossing fingers, and hoping they decide it will be more profitable to do what we ask then to ignore us.
Maybe they caught us with our pants down on this one?
PERFECT OPPORTUNITY TO DEMONSTRATE WHY F/OSS IS THE RIGHT CHOICE.
While the comparison has some merit, more research needs to be done before drawing any conclusion.
Why, whenever rich industries are involved, do we take the obviously backwards stance that "Until you prove its harmless, lets assume its probably not."
How about, keep that shit out of my stainguard pants until you show me *why* its safe.
...is as old as those noodles!
ha!!
In my opinion, the internet is way better [...] than alcohol and drugs any day
Dude. get to a clinic.
man, I'm so shocked you were able to find exceptions!!
/bin", I guess thats more important then the fact that I wrote a GPS chartplotter _complete w/ the interface to talk to an actual handheld GPS_, never thinking about portability, and was able to just take it off my linux box and compile it on an OS-X box changing _2_ lines of code.
/dev filesystem. Apparantly I just dont know what I'm talking about.
Point is, I've written some rather large software and ported it no problem. If you want to be a geek and talk about how you shouldnt assume "bash is in
But you are right, porting it from MFC would have been _way_ easier then changing my hard-coded paths to the
Troll.
First 3 questions said nothing about Linux.
First 3 answers did.
muahahahahhahaha
Anyways my take on the debate: Multiple times I've written some simple software without even CONSIDERING portability, written on my (Linux/BSD/OS-X) box, and when the time came to make it run on a new platform (Linux/BSD/OS-X), it did, with barely any modifications. So who cares, target any UNIX, they all rock, and you probably wont end up permanently stuck to one of them.
Everyone works AT microsoft. Everyone comes in at 9 to 5. Its a lot easier to manage "a bunch of little programs" when all the developers are on the same campus. Its a lot harder when the developers are all across the globe, with different schedules, all stitching together their communication with /no central management authority/ to make sure everyone can communicate effectively. People who are reading this without thinking will say "Whats Linus, if not a central management authority?" OK, find a piece of code you dont understand in the linux kernel, written by someone who speaks a language you dont understand. Go ask Linus to facilitate getting that guy to explain his code to you. See how far you get. Nowhere. Now try it at microsoft, asking your manager.
One would think that because of this, Linux would be a mess, but we've seen the opposite is true: For projects to continue to evolve rather than quickly die off, they require _rigid_ structure and sane, intuitive modularity to support the OSS development model. Projects that turn into spaghetti code too fast just fizzle out and never make it into my slackware distro. While at microsoft, they have this whole management system that makes it easier to support spaghetti code. OSS has a much more brutal "natural selection" process that is constantly favoring modular, readable, easy-to-learn code bases.
Plus, spaghetti code is not fun, so hobbiest programmers arent going to waste their time with it.
Thats why so much OSS software is structured so well.
Did Patrick ever tell the FOSS community about his illness? I remember he sort of called on everyone for help in diagnosing his problem, and then when he finally got it squared away, he never told anyone what the result was. Kind of against the whole "you tell me what you did, and if I learn something new, I'll tell it to you" spirit of F/OSS...
We're not being prevented from including features, and that's the strength of the settlement that we reached with the Justice Department and others. There's quite a bit of process we go through to make sure that the way we're putting them in and exposing them to third parties, that we're meeting all the requirements of that. But it's not preventing us from being very, very innovative and making it as rich as we want to.
s/it/us
Nuclear powered submarines can travel as fast as 25 miles per hour. Let's assume that these submarines would be dragging an ocean plowing apparatus that slows the submarine down to 15 miles per hour. If the ocean plowing apparatus stretched a half mile wide...
How much power does the submarine you are refering to have? Can we move a half mile wide swath of inches of water with one of them? How much does that much water weigh? You need to figure this stuff out before you start theorizing, crackpot. Lets instead assume the plowing apparatus stretched 50 miles wide! Problem solved!
anyone remember the Wazzup virus? It attacked MS Word and would randomly place the word "wazzup" in your document when you saved it or printed it. God it was beautiful. So many book reports with "wazzups" circled in red ink....
People wazzup arent creative like that anymore.
I used to work for Edgenet, which later was bought by Citadel communications and renamed to E-fortress. /whine
The whole time I was there, I would talk to Jeff Thompson (COO of Towerstream) about how what he should be doing is using Citadel's radio infrastructure to make wireless internet service. Sure, its over-simplified and I was a young highschooler, but isn't it kind of wack that now that eFortress has crumbled, he's now baron of this big wireless internet company, and he wont even reply to my emails?
How do you feel about the amount of power corporations like Microsoft have gotten in the past few decades? With industry-standard non-compete contracts dictating the terms in which employees can procure employment [even after there relationship with their previous employer has ended (Kai-Fu Lee)], and software patents allowing science and mathematics to be locked in company coffers, don't you think corporate America is getting a little too much control over American life?
Lets make sure we understand the context here; we are living in a country where the Surpreme Court has ruled that a larger company can use immenent domain to grab the land of a smaller company, or private individual (assuming there is potential for more tax revenue as a result).
Help me be a little less afraid of Microsoft.
I hold myself to the same standard as the Slashdot moderators. So bring on the dupes!!!
zing!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I can't think of ANY japanese car company that started out with making "junk" that ran strange, and looked cheap, and rotted away on the salty winter roads, and then suddenly became synonymous with quality and dependability. Anyways time to hop in my camry and get to work!
Do they count the dual-cores twice? :-D
To me, the white-ish noise of a fan doesn't bother me nearly as much as the clicks and clacks of my coworkers mashing their keys and mouse buttons. Forget the fans, just stop shipping mice and keyboards that INTENTIONALLY make noise every time you do anything! Why does my mouse button need to make a click that can be heard 20 feet away?
No.
Lucky for you other people wanted to try new filesystems and new process schedulers, and thats why Linux got so good so fast. And will continue to stay good. Its a good idea magnet. Thats good for you, too! wheee!!!!
How does this math work? All the article really tells me is that its math.
They also claim "deconvolution" can improve the resolution of a good telescope. Why? Wheres the extra data come from?
what the heck is this?
"Most anything worthwhile that you can do in Linux, you can do in OS X."
That is simply not true. And linux CERTAINLY does not dream of becoming proprietary software. I think you've missed the WHOLE POINT OF THE F/OSS COMMUNITY, if some proprietary software with a better user interface can come along and make you dump linux.
If I want to try out some fancy new process scheduling idea I had, guess what, I can do that in linux. If I had some new filesystem I wanted to implement, I can do that in linux. I dont need to reinvent a whole new OS to try out a few small ideas. Another approach to trying these ideas would be to get a job at an OS vendor. Seems like a lot more commitment then simply downloading the kernel and reading a few wikis.
Linux is a platform for creative geeks to try things out, and the innovations that have come from it are free for all of us to use, even proprietary software vendors.
Also, programming for the linux platform means you'll be able to compile your stuff on a zillion different hardware platforms. Not just the ones in sexy magnesium cases. Or just the ones w/ powerpcs and pentiums.
I dont think linux dreams of being OS-X at all. I think *you* dream of linux being OS-X. And thats awesome, maybe with your support the GUI will get better. I dream of it having feature X. Maybe I'll put it in. Wheee!!! get it yet?