I admitted that I was wrong about the honeybees immediately. I still maintain that's not the real topic here. The real topic, at least as I understood it, was the massive meta story of major publications giving serious ink to the idea of killing all 12 species of mosquitos. I did some reading realized I was wrong about the honeybees. This misinformation is extremely common as the media focuses on it and the meme has spread unhindered by fact checking.
There are a number of species of wild bees that are indigeous that are the concern of the the scientists looking this problem. They were not looking at honeybees but somehow that point got lost in translation, a side effect of something getting repeated enough it becomes accepted, received truth. Scientists were concerned about THOSE bees all along. That's a valid concern they have. I learned something new today. The story of honeybees is bullshit. That doesn't necessarily mean nothing to see here, move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for. When I learn I'm wrong I don't just run and hide, I try to figure out what the truth. The first step is admitting when you're wrong. I've been involved in a lot of discussions and a lot of people have trouble with admitting fault and tend to decide something and then take an almost religious position to salvage ego. I could have brought out the smoke and mirror about honeybees because it kind of through me off balance to be completely wrong on a truth I've "known" for years.
There are plenty of people in my shoes who would not have admitted even to themselves they were wrong. I've also found that a lot of people are libertarians, conservatives, liberals, socialists, you name it. That's almost as bad and requires some of the same intellectual hand waiving. I just said I'm wrong but that doesn't mean I run and hide. The fucking honey bees aren't the only thing going on here.
http://www.nature.com/news/201...
And you've seen the dozen other stories on this and who knows how many me to pieces today.
OK, perhaps that's your argument but the larger context are serious proposals to completely wipe out 12 species of mosquitos. If you're all about the FL carrier species, then I have no beef with you. I guess some of the things you said and the tone made me think you were one of the people who had a cavalier kill them all attitude. Ok, you don't. You're talking about FL. You don't necessarily support eradication of 12 species of North American mosquitos?
Again, you missed the point. Win the argument not by whining that I got moded up, do it with a strong argument with sources to back you up. Do it politely. I said I was wrong about honey bees but that wasn't really the key point and that I'd been distracted by a focus on a species of bee. Did you read what I said? The moral outrage that I could possibly have been moded up isn't useful. Please read what i said.
I don't think a species of bees is the core issue that's being discussed but I don't want to rehash that. Let's simplify this, removing variables.
I claim X. I get moded up. You know Y is correct. Slashdot users are generally well informed and intelligent so you might take note that others shared my ignorance. Is your next move to make the focus on my stupidity and the dumb fucks who moded me up or is your next move to make a strong argument that I'm wrong, education me and those who moded me up, which are a small fraction of the people that think X is true. I would hazard to say almost everyone I know thinks X is true, including college professors, albeit I've not talked to the one biology prof friend I have about X.
I'll leave it up to you to decide whether your move was the cool one or if there was a better move.
I made a mistake and posted anon. Moderators, to delete the dupe?
I'll concede you're right on "honey bees." It's sort of nomenclature and visibility problem. We talk about and see honey bees routinely. The bees scientists are concerned about are these: http://www.wired.com/2015/04/y...
Most of the arguments I could find that are new seemed like cheap click bait. I went back to a Nature piece from 2010 that's premise isn't precisely the same because it extends beyond North America. But let's be real, if the US goes that route, others will follow. It's going to be a global effort. http://www.nature.com/news/201...
I really ask that you consider this with an open mind. I probably am not going to be able to sell you on the idea that this is a problem, and I don't know if spraying to the extent that it would take to kill all the mosquitoes would have on bees AND other parts of the system, including the effect of killing off all the mosquitoes, food for many species of birds and other insects. I'm not trying to take a hard stand against the complete extermination of 12 species of this insect, distributed across the entire continent. That's not a Saturday afternoon job by the exterminator. It's massive industrial sized effort to cause the complete extinction of 12 species of mosquitos. I don't know of a time in history where humans have successfully intentionally killed off a species. It's not that easy. A little bit of stagnant water here and there and they creep back in.
Then there will be unintended consequences of killing off a prey species for birds and insects in many different habitats. There are a whole lot of risks but the tone I get from you is you've made up your mind already. Do you want your position to be true and have no ego over beating me? I'll concede I'm no bee expert. Not even close. I don't understand how the global Gaie works, nor do I even understand really how even the smallest unit of ecosystem works. I've got some humility around this.
I'm now realizing I was wrong on the honey bees. They're a red heron. It'd be about as useful to focus on them as it would be to focus on the well being of the canary as you mine. I hope you're open to the truth as I'm trying to be. I'm basically acknowledging that I know almost nothing about the effects of exterminating these species would be and frankly I think you've already been sold a POV and you've completely bought in. That's OK maybe the evidence is so strong and you're convinced with good reason that this is not only the right thing to do, the effects on the system will be trivial so let's just go for it.
Also, it's insulting to basically call what I'm saying ignorant crap. I'm someone who will concede an error or even that I'm wrong on an entire issue but if I have a misconception or am distracted by something far from the core issue, chances are there are others too. Correct me with a strong argument and help educate me and others. You can't insult your way to any gain for your position. The people using pejoratives such as neo-luddite are using the same sort of tactics. It's not how civilized smart people have conversations. Alll ideologies and ism are fucking crap, including whatever one has you and the others that toss insults. I've found that people who use cheap tactics usually have an ideology.
All ism's are rubbish. Every single one. Argue to read the truth not support the decision you already made.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point. I wasn't clear enough. I'm talking about the system not a particular species or even all the species we cultivate for mass. My point was that further disrupting an already stressed key species can have massive impacts. They are not an ordinary species, they're pollinators. Many components of this system rely on the edifice that they form part of the foundation of. We don't know the effects of continuously attacking a key species. Yes, we're always attacking and they're on a back foot. We can choose to stand down or escalate. If we escalate we should at least look at what we are doing and make the decision understanding exactly what bees are and the role they play in the system.
If you're that brain dead that you take down your client's properties, you're not that bright. I'm thinking of the muscle in the God Father. Where the fuck is the Godfather in these Takedown outfits who can at least point the muscle at the right website and veto bad decisions. No guys, not that one, they cut the checks.
I am not sure everyone understands that we totally depend on viable bee populations for our own survival. We're abstracted from it but it's real.
Plants --> Animals -->People eating.
^
System cut off at the knees by destabilizing bee population, a process that's already started so more pressued isn't the right input.
The connection to pollinators alone is serious but we don't know how Gaia works, really. We don't know anything. Hubris will be our downfall.
"So are there any downsides to removing mosquitoes? According to Phil Lounibos, an entomologist at Florida University, mosquito eradication "is fraught with undesirable side effects".
He says mosquitoes, which mostly feed on plant nectar, are important pollinators. They are also a food source for birds and bats while their young - as larvae - are consumed by fish and frogs. This could have an effect further up and down the food chain."
source: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...
The costs would be higher than the benefits to them. It's not even any fun to have MS as any sort of bad guy without Bill Gates. I miss the ultimate villian who could be likened to the Borg without irony and without offending Mr. Gates. Where are we going to find another kick as, perfect villian again?!!
It comes off as *only* Windows 10. That's borderline Huffpo click bait as of course x86 Linux users don't have to lose a moment's sleep over this distressing headline.:-)
It seems that inexcusably bad communication seems to accompany these breaches. It makes a bad problem FAR worse. Any sense of why communication about security problems (e.g., breaches) is lousy? There are some notable exceptions but usually the corporate/PR communication fail is as bad as a the security fail.
We have perfectly tuned devices and VR on the way but fly a metal tube a few thousand miles just isn't worth the trouble to get right. It's other basic infrastructure, too, people will pull all nighters to get an app done but nobody's pulling all nighters to make sure the drinking water's clean and the bridges are sound.
Slashdot Mirror
I admitted that I was wrong about the honeybees immediately. I still maintain that's not the real topic here. The real topic, at least as I understood it, was the massive meta story of major publications giving serious ink to the idea of killing all 12 species of mosquitos. I did some reading realized I was wrong about the honeybees. This misinformation is extremely common as the media focuses on it and the meme has spread unhindered by fact checking. There are a number of species of wild bees that are indigeous that are the concern of the the scientists looking this problem. They were not looking at honeybees but somehow that point got lost in translation, a side effect of something getting repeated enough it becomes accepted, received truth. Scientists were concerned about THOSE bees all along. That's a valid concern they have. I learned something new today. The story of honeybees is bullshit. That doesn't necessarily mean nothing to see here, move along, these aren't the droids you're looking for. When I learn I'm wrong I don't just run and hide, I try to figure out what the truth. The first step is admitting when you're wrong. I've been involved in a lot of discussions and a lot of people have trouble with admitting fault and tend to decide something and then take an almost religious position to salvage ego. I could have brought out the smoke and mirror about honeybees because it kind of through me off balance to be completely wrong on a truth I've "known" for years. There are plenty of people in my shoes who would not have admitted even to themselves they were wrong. I've also found that a lot of people are libertarians, conservatives, liberals, socialists, you name it. That's almost as bad and requires some of the same intellectual hand waiving. I just said I'm wrong but that doesn't mean I run and hide. The fucking honey bees aren't the only thing going on here. http://www.nature.com/news/201... And you've seen the dozen other stories on this and who knows how many me to pieces today.
OK, perhaps that's your argument but the larger context are serious proposals to completely wipe out 12 species of mosquitos. If you're all about the FL carrier species, then I have no beef with you. I guess some of the things you said and the tone made me think you were one of the people who had a cavalier kill them all attitude. Ok, you don't. You're talking about FL. You don't necessarily support eradication of 12 species of North American mosquitos?
Again, you missed the point. Win the argument not by whining that I got moded up, do it with a strong argument with sources to back you up. Do it politely. I said I was wrong about honey bees but that wasn't really the key point and that I'd been distracted by a focus on a species of bee. Did you read what I said? The moral outrage that I could possibly have been moded up isn't useful. Please read what i said. I don't think a species of bees is the core issue that's being discussed but I don't want to rehash that. Let's simplify this, removing variables. I claim X. I get moded up. You know Y is correct. Slashdot users are generally well informed and intelligent so you might take note that others shared my ignorance. Is your next move to make the focus on my stupidity and the dumb fucks who moded me up or is your next move to make a strong argument that I'm wrong, education me and those who moded me up, which are a small fraction of the people that think X is true. I would hazard to say almost everyone I know thinks X is true, including college professors, albeit I've not talked to the one biology prof friend I have about X. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether your move was the cool one or if there was a better move.
I made a mistake and posted anon. Moderators, to delete the dupe? I'll concede you're right on "honey bees." It's sort of nomenclature and visibility problem. We talk about and see honey bees routinely. The bees scientists are concerned about are these: http://www.wired.com/2015/04/y... Most of the arguments I could find that are new seemed like cheap click bait. I went back to a Nature piece from 2010 that's premise isn't precisely the same because it extends beyond North America. But let's be real, if the US goes that route, others will follow. It's going to be a global effort. http://www.nature.com/news/201... I really ask that you consider this with an open mind. I probably am not going to be able to sell you on the idea that this is a problem, and I don't know if spraying to the extent that it would take to kill all the mosquitoes would have on bees AND other parts of the system, including the effect of killing off all the mosquitoes, food for many species of birds and other insects. I'm not trying to take a hard stand against the complete extermination of 12 species of this insect, distributed across the entire continent. That's not a Saturday afternoon job by the exterminator. It's massive industrial sized effort to cause the complete extinction of 12 species of mosquitos. I don't know of a time in history where humans have successfully intentionally killed off a species. It's not that easy. A little bit of stagnant water here and there and they creep back in. Then there will be unintended consequences of killing off a prey species for birds and insects in many different habitats. There are a whole lot of risks but the tone I get from you is you've made up your mind already. Do you want your position to be true and have no ego over beating me? I'll concede I'm no bee expert. Not even close. I don't understand how the global Gaie works, nor do I even understand really how even the smallest unit of ecosystem works. I've got some humility around this. I'm now realizing I was wrong on the honey bees. They're a red heron. It'd be about as useful to focus on them as it would be to focus on the well being of the canary as you mine. I hope you're open to the truth as I'm trying to be. I'm basically acknowledging that I know almost nothing about the effects of exterminating these species would be and frankly I think you've already been sold a POV and you've completely bought in. That's OK maybe the evidence is so strong and you're convinced with good reason that this is not only the right thing to do, the effects on the system will be trivial so let's just go for it. Also, it's insulting to basically call what I'm saying ignorant crap. I'm someone who will concede an error or even that I'm wrong on an entire issue but if I have a misconception or am distracted by something far from the core issue, chances are there are others too. Correct me with a strong argument and help educate me and others. You can't insult your way to any gain for your position. The people using pejoratives such as neo-luddite are using the same sort of tactics. It's not how civilized smart people have conversations. Alll ideologies and ism are fucking crap, including whatever one has you and the others that toss insults. I've found that people who use cheap tactics usually have an ideology. All ism's are rubbish. Every single one. Argue to read the truth not support the decision you already made.
I'm afraid you've misunderstood my point. I wasn't clear enough. I'm talking about the system not a particular species or even all the species we cultivate for mass. My point was that further disrupting an already stressed key species can have massive impacts. They are not an ordinary species, they're pollinators. Many components of this system rely on the edifice that they form part of the foundation of. We don't know the effects of continuously attacking a key species. Yes, we're always attacking and they're on a back foot. We can choose to stand down or escalate. If we escalate we should at least look at what we are doing and make the decision understanding exactly what bees are and the role they play in the system.
If you're that brain dead that you take down your client's properties, you're not that bright. I'm thinking of the muscle in the God Father. Where the fuck is the Godfather in these Takedown outfits who can at least point the muscle at the right website and veto bad decisions. No guys, not that one, they cut the checks.
I am not sure everyone understands that we totally depend on viable bee populations for our own survival. We're abstracted from it but it's real. Plants --> Animals -->People eating. ^ System cut off at the knees by destabilizing bee population, a process that's already started so more pressued isn't the right input.
The connection to pollinators alone is serious but we don't know how Gaia works, really. We don't know anything. Hubris will be our downfall. "So are there any downsides to removing mosquitoes? According to Phil Lounibos, an entomologist at Florida University, mosquito eradication "is fraught with undesirable side effects". He says mosquitoes, which mostly feed on plant nectar, are important pollinators. They are also a food source for birds and bats while their young - as larvae - are consumed by fish and frogs. This could have an effect further up and down the food chain." source: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...
Those days are over. The battle's mostly over. The villian is doing good works. What are you gonna do?
The costs would be higher than the benefits to them. It's not even any fun to have MS as any sort of bad guy without Bill Gates. I miss the ultimate villian who could be likened to the Borg without irony and without offending Mr. Gates. Where are we going to find another kick as, perfect villian again?!!
That would be a reckless decision but stranger things have happened.
Exactly they aren't stupid enough so no worries there
It comes off as *only* Windows 10. That's borderline Huffpo click bait as of course x86 Linux users don't have to lose a moment's sleep over this distressing headline. :-)
It seems that inexcusably bad communication seems to accompany these breaches. It makes a bad problem FAR worse. Any sense of why communication about security problems (e.g., breaches) is lousy? There are some notable exceptions but usually the corporate/PR communication fail is as bad as a the security fail.
The fifth force is... LOVE!? Who's been screwing with this thing?
That's not just funny, it's true.
Cowboy Neal. :-)
We have perfectly tuned devices and VR on the way but fly a metal tube a few thousand miles just isn't worth the trouble to get right. It's other basic infrastructure, too, people will pull all nighters to get an app done but nobody's pulling all nighters to make sure the drinking water's clean and the bridges are sound.
I hope the couple wins big. They deserve it.