Slashdot Mirror
New Intel and AMD Chips Will Only Support Windows 10 (pcworld.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Buried in the announcement of the new Kaby Lake (seventh-generation) processors and a rash of incoming notebooks set to use them is the confirmation that they will have a Windows 10 future. Microsoft has been warning people for ages that Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10, and it looks like AMD's upcoming Zen chip will be going the same way. Microsoft said, "As new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon." "We are committed to working with Microsoft and our ecosystem partners to help ensure a smooth transition given these changes to Microsoft's Windows support policy," an Intel spokesperson said. "No, Intel will not be updating Win 7/8 drivers for 7th Gen Intel Core [Kaby Lake] per Microsoft's support policy change." An AMD representative was equally neutral. "AMD's processor roadmap is fully aligned with Microsoft's software strategy," AMD chief technical officer Mark Papermaster said, via a company spokeswoman. Slashdot reader MojoKid via HotHardware has some more details on Intel's Kaby Lake 7th Gen Core Series Processors for those yearning to learn more.
Hello Linux
Microsoft is shooting themselves in the foot, and it will bleed out.
ok.. so... im fine in principle if intel and microsoft aren't interested in porting chipset drivers backwards for old windows versions.
I presume that this isn't creating windows 10 lock in though; and that linux / bsd / etc will be fully supported?? Or am I mistaken?
And also, is if things are that different, does it mean only a next-generation kernel version will run on them?
I'm also curious about virtualization? Can old windows versions run in virtualization on these new chips?
I wonder if they are tracking this. I think they need to be reminded of this - all three of them.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
"Windows 10 will be the only Microsoft OS to support new Intel and AMD chips"
Little to see here, moving on.
It will be illegal to run any other version than Windows 10.
I know they never update their hardware anymore, but will they adjust OSX to the processors as well, or what? This is interesting and, while promising for efficiency, bothersome in several ways.
Wine is often sufficient.
Alrighty then, I guess I'm not upgrading my notebook any time soon then. There was no real reason to do it, and now I have a real reason not to do it. And if it breaks, I'll pick up something used for cheap that can run what *I* want, and not what Microsoft/Intel/AMD wants me to run with artificial limitations. And then they wonder why PC sales are in deep decline...
Microsoft will support Windows 10 alone in these new processors. I.e., as usual, sticking it to its customers. Why not? After all, they keep coming back for more.
windows 10 can go fuck itself.
deep integration between Windows and the silicon
Because Microsoft has a hugely successful track record with "deep integration" with ANYTHING. I guess this is the "Extinguish" phase for CPU manufacturers. You made a deal with the devil, now you reap the rewards. Don't say no one ever told you so.
I guess I'll be hunting for old CPUs and motherboards and buying second-hand in my retirement years.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
"Support" means different things to different people in different contexts, even within just the narrow field of computers.
If it weren't for dirty tricks like this, users would treat Windows 7 like XP... M$ would need to pry it from their cold, dead hands.
Well I guess it's good I don't need a notebook for a while. I have to wonder since Windows 10 runs fine on any hardware now. What's going to change and why won't it affect current hardware if its such a change? I call BS on this one from Microsoft trying to find a way to force users to Win 10. Well tank goodness these days many can run a Linux distro on any hardware plenty fine.
It doesn't matter. I would imagine 95% of all Windows licenses are sold with hardware, anyway. We are going to keep buying refurb machines with Windows 7 licenses, because that's the OS we need. The hardware really hasn't mattered for workstations for a decade or so, anyway.
I don't respond to AC's.
Soon all our machines will be totally infected with spyware sponsored by our own tax dollars.
Their notebooks are DOOMED.
So i guess they don't really care that quite a lot of business clients won't be buying machines with these new chips? I mean, yah, the 'old' stuff will be around through Dell and HP for a while yet, but it seems Intel and AMD(especially) would want that sweet business-grade money to go to their new products.
M$ said the same thing with Skylake on Win7. And Skylake works fine on Win7, you just need to install the Intel INF drivers and the proper usb 3.0 drivers.
So unless Intel refuses to makes their drivers for Kaby Lake work on Win7 (and I don't think Intel is quite that stupid), this is a non issue.
Or to be more accurate, its more FUD and outright bullshit from M$.
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
I'm pretty sure older windows will for the most part *work* on those chipsets, just that it might not support all functionality (acceleration, or possibly a lack of drivers for some controllers, soundcards, etc).
So long AMD!
They're both doing everything in their power to intentionally lose.
... since after all, there are much better, free operating systems out there that run well on both old and new CPUs.
I am a Canadian PC-user, I really want to switch to Linux (I've been trying Linux Mint on VirtualBox and I like it), what would be the appropriate way to do this? Should I order a premade laptop or build it myself? There's always the problem of hardware not working with the OS, and now they're even making the chips only work with certain OSes? How am I supposed to get on Linux? (Should I just go and buy as many old but functioning laptops as I can right now and run linux on them for the next 20 years?)
Ftfy: "Microsoft will only release support drivers for new intel and amd cpus on windows 10". They will have drivers on Linux.
Bet they support Linux! Who cares about MS at this point - only masochists who don't care about their data privacy or ownership of their data and equipment.
CAPTCHA: deeded
Just how do you disable older versions of the OS without also disabling older applications?
Maybe, there is code buried into Windows XP/Vista/7/8, that will prevent them from running on some future CPUs. I can believe that. But for a CPU to reject an older OS on its own? I do not know, how this can happen even in theory — not without disabling a whole lot of other already existing binaries...
Maybe, it is not the CPUs, but the chipsets using some hackery that confuses older OSes — in which case, open source kernels will have a problem too... If so the computer-manufacturers will, likely, introduce BIOS/firmware knobs to allow customers to maintain compatibility.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
We all know what ecosystem means, and we all know that DRM-lovers love to euphemistically package DRM as "ecosystem". This looks like a DRM experiment. Stepping towards iOS like DRM store exclusivity. Easy to imagine an "allow unsigned apps" checkbox in Windows now. (I haven't used 10. Maybe it's already there.) They'll let users allow unsigned apps for a few years, then use some convenient cyber-disaster to justify disallowing the feature on national/international security grounds, and voila, Windows DRM only version of Windows is locked in.
--
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
using the phrase "the silicon" like this is cringe-inducing.
Can someone help understand this quote: "This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon." And the fact it ONLY work with Windows 10... where is the compatibility?
There's lot's of people that don't want Windows 10 spyware forced down their throat and with AMD running out of money and desperate to win market share from Intel, that could have been the key selling point for Zen - Windows 7 support.
That would be a similar game plan as Vulkan versus DirectX 12 - offer them something that the competition doesn't have.
Hello Linux
Goodbye Windows. Hello Linux
Why? This affects no existing hardware. Its just that future hardware will not support Windows 7 and 8.
And frankly this is pretty much what happens under Android too, a chip vendor developing some new chip's drivers only for the current Android version. Will that make Android/Linux fans flock to iOS when they learn their Samsung Galaxy S8 can not run Android 4.4?
windows 7 drivers and/or support Win 7 users. The few die hards you're gonna get in sales would probably be dwarfed by the support calls. And in the meantime it's not like you can't just buy an i7-4690k and call it a day.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I expect UEFI lock down will soon prevent Linux from being installed.
Linux is already supported by UEFI. The major Linux distros have paid the one-time US$99 fee to be able to get their code on the UEFI supported list.
The headline is crystal clear. Linux, Mac, Win 7-- fuggedaboudit.
Or is this another Slashdot clickbait? Ah, they are off the hook because they copied the clickbait at PCWorld. At least PCWorld had the decency to add this statement "But a change in Microsoftâ(TM)s support policy means that it will be only be officially supported by Windows 10." which seems to soften the misleading headline.
As most here agree, ways will be found to deploy these chips in a useful direction despite the monopolistic desires of Microsoft.
...omphaloskepsis often...
How do you test the chips then? If it crashes, you don't know if it's the chip or Windows 10 because Windows 10 is (currently) crashy.
I suppose you could compare with Windows 10 on an older chip, but timing difference could make them out of sync such that screen-grabbing auto-tests may often fail. For example, you launch app A and then app B. App A may open before App B on chip X but the reverse for chip Y. The relative computing time for a given sequence of instructions is likely to be different between generations of chips.
Table-ized A.I.
Well, from this, that future Intel and AMD CPUs require Window 10 (odd direction of requirement), I guess we can safely rule out either for future Apple computers...
>New Intel and AMD Chips Will Only Support Windows 10
Microsoft will only support new Intel and AMD chips in Windows 10.
or
AMD and Intel will not be writing drivers for previous Microsoft Windows versions.
Lots of motherboard manufacturers still run diagnostics on DOS. I don't think very many of them have moved their diags over to run as UEFI applications.
I could imagine (and the article implies this) that older versions of Windows won't work on the newer CPUs, as disappointing as that is, I suppose that makes some sense.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
steam is to big to ban and app store only is too locked down to work. Also the server market is to big to cut out Linux / VMware. Hyper V only good luck with that.
... you want new hardware you need a new OS ...
By the time the hardware arrives Windows 10 won't be new, it will merely be the current OS.
And its not exactly a new thing. I recently built a new PC based on a recently released ASUS motherboard. ASUS only provided chipset drivers for Windows 8 and 10. Not sure if 7 would work. Doubtful Vista and older would work correctly.
It's doublethink. Freedom is Slavery, etc.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Now the exploits will be based in hardware and almost impossible to defend against.
Good job.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
When Microsoft sees the correlation that processor sales do not match Windows installs, they will wind up writing the drivers themselves rather than lose market share. Of course if they lock up tight enough monopoly deals with all the vendors, so you have to pay for a Windows license to buy any Dell/HP/Lenovo/Asus computer, they may hold out a bit longer. Not being such a total slave to MS, AMD might cave first, as time allows.
What do you call a conspiracy between 3 of the biggest computer makers?
This is B.S.
Microsoft, Intel, AMD can all go fuck themselves.
It means they won't backport new features into older releases, new features that could accidentally screw up something that used to work. By not changing something, it remains compatible with everything it's currently compatibly with. It will greatly cut down on the amount of support they need to do. Microsoft is trying to copy Apple and mobile in terms of selling and controlling specific setups instead of allowing general computing.
April fool right? RIGHT?!
This smacks of something illegal but not a lawyer so I can only speculate. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Intel and AMD are so committed to a good and trustworthy experience for their customers that they are only accommodating installation of the perpetual beta, that data mining sensation, Windows 10? This constitutes a big bet that nearly all of their customers are completely ignorant or utter fools, with the remainder being an insignificant minority that can safely be ignored.
After 20 years of Windows, I'm finally in the process of switching to Linux. I can clearly tolerate a somewhat rubbish OS for a long time but when it's essentially a sinister joke and a toy rather than a serious tool, even a procrastinator like me is motivated to make a change. Of course much of the Win 10 evil has been back ported to Win 7 and 8 but could in theory be avoided. After a while though, one tires of the cat and mouse game of choosing which updates to avoid and now how to get around the update rollups. This business with chip support is just the most recent slap in the face from an increasingly cynical and adversarial Microsoft who is apparently the driving force in this present fiasco.
KDE Neon, for example, is way faster on an old laptop than Windows on a recent Xeon workstation, so this no painful switch. Thus ends the promise of Longhorn, at least for me.
Pretty much silly reasoning given the number of Linux servers around the world. Almost every large corporate is depending on Linux for something.
What good does that do if hardware and OS manufacturers collude to only support each other's current products, and the hardware manufacturers (remaining after the latest round of shakeouts) stop shipping chips that aren't locked down against anything else?
Yes, it would be, in our opinions, a stupid move for AMD and Intel. But both are private companies and get to do what they want, within the limits of the law.
The "invisible hand" doesn't force businesses to do or not do anything. It just pats them on the back (and stuffs money into their wallets) if they do some things, and spanks them on the butt (and pulls money out of their wallets) if they do others. If it spanks them hard enough, they die. But they get to be suicidally stupid.
Meanwhile, the law is effectively "how the law is currently enforced". If this is something that would be, say, an antitrust violation, it really doesn't matter unless the government functionaries are willing to take them to court.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Seriously, if they lock themselves to just MS, they are guaranteeing that they are finished as CPU companies.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It must be nice believing that. I don't think Steam can afford to agree with you. This has nothing to do with the server market.
Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
When dealing with Some aspects of the m$ ecosystem, wine is completely inadequate; start with a good single malt Scotch and work from there...
The lack of good integration between software and hardware is basically why Apple still even exists as a desktop. It's easily the biggest flaw in the PC.. unreliable performance from computer to computer, motherboard to motherboard and so on.
For chip companies to move forward rapidly software has to be nimble. Evidentally MS is the ONLY one who really saw this coming and build .NET and CRL.
This means Windows 10 and Universal apps can be ported to any chip.. any new architecture much faster than anything else that resembles an actual entire platform. Android and basic Linux simply are not good enough and thus Linux is ultimately not as portable as Windows anymore.
It's bad new for Linux because it means the already overworked open source devs will be asked to keep up with the changing pace of hardware as we move into a world of more damaging, for their size and power use, and imaginative computers. The already splintered nature of Linux will do poorly if hardware starts to change.
Linux may seem portable, but only the core OS is. For a Ubuntu and all it's apps or Mint and all those apps to be ported to something like ARM and then kept up to date is a TON of work.
The new Universal Windows apps on the other hand will not just work on ARM and X86, they can be ported as is to ANY future hardware inftrastructure. Even if we move to biological chips, .NET and the ENTIRE framework you will become used to.. will be portable.
Nobody else really has anything like that, BUT the easier solution is to steam your OS and apps and forget all this redundant localized inefficient processing. A browser can be a window to anything, or a tv or a mobile phone. The interface becomes the limit, not the onboard resources, OS or apps (at least not for the most part). For most things that spend 97% of their time waiting for the user, it works great and it ends all the issues in computing. It solves cross platform. It solves high cost of gaming PCs, it solves monopolization.
Only a few games can't steam and almost any app can.. so MS has the most robust solution and it will transition best and their stock will continue to rise. Intel and MS have clearly teamed up and that been known. Now we see more proof of tight integration of new features and a more rapid acceleration of architecture additions from Intel.
Anyway.. why would you want to keep using Windows 7 so many years later? You're just being stupid and MS has no reason to cater to stupid people.
If you'd like to use Linux, you probably already are, so STFU. The reality is the PHYSICAL manufacturing of chips is changing and the WHOLE industry will change with it. RISC chips will hit the same limit on terns of investment to make the core smaller. The focus becomes specialized instructions and to make that work rapidly, in a way that each generation of your retail products see compelling features added, a MUCH tighter integration than we have is needed.
If you think it's some conspiracy to make you use Windows 10, get a life. It makes perfect sense for Intel to push the platform forward and not worry about fringe consumers trying to hold personal and mobile computing back our of entirely unfounded fears of one BS reason or another. Windows 10 has some interface transition still happening, but it's a great OS.
Once some of you run Windows 10 on low end hardware you'll begin to see the OS, for the money, can do a lot more for consumers than Linux. Those who think otherwise are disconnected from reality.
Right now you can buy an RCA tablet for 100-120 dollars at Walmart. It's a full Windows 10 computer and it blows away anything for 100 dollar that Android can do. That's a perfect example of why you totally want MS and Intel to tightly integrate. It's like the open world of MS software and development combined with the polished hardware combinations that Amiga and Apple have benefited from over the years.
It's going to officially be the best desktop platform ever. Custom hardware f
So it must be true that Nadella's bonus was tied to the number of Windows 10 installations...
If this is something that would be, say, an antitrust violation, it really doesn't matter unless the government functionaries are willing to take them to court.
Well, that has happened before.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Looks like Linux will be in my future after all. I've been evaluating a few different distros in VMs on my current Win7 system. I've found Debian based versions to be the most appealing to me so far.
OK - I'm definitely confused. I can understand an OS requiring a CPU, but since when does a CPU require an OS? Unless CPU design has changed radically, so far as I know, CPUs still execute and process instructions on data in memory and registers, and at the core are executing machine code which shouldn't have any requirements for a particular OS unless they specifically code something in. Does the CPU do something like lock up if the OS doesn't provide it with a valid Windows activation key after a certain number of seconds?
Summary says, "Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10".
In the past, operating systems ran on CPUs, not the other way around. So this is truly revolutionary!
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I think you are mistaken in your thinking. While I'll give you that more people will get MS Windows 10 it's not because of familiarity. It's because that's what they are shipping with and because most people ask the sales guy who knows better than to go tell someone to download Linux Mint. By 'knows better' I mean it contradicts his companies business interests and is liable to be fired or otherwise yelled at for doing so. He would be compromising is own selfish interests in the process (ie rewards, financial or otherwise received for selling product, etc, or simply not to be yelled at for under performing). Yes- I worked retail. I did sales for tech. I can point you to specific propaganda that the majority of 'tech' employees selling computers will read. It becomes clear nobody is going to recommend Linux Mint (if they even know it exists) over Microsoft Windows.
https://ixnotes.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/microsoft-propaganda-handed-out-to-staples-employees/
Flame-bait article right back at ya. The new chips only support Linux. Oh, and maybe OpenBSD and maybe FreeBSD. NOTHING ELSE! Its not too late though. If you haven't got one of the afore-mentioned operating systems, you can switch. FOR FREE! There. That's a little shot of flame right back at the flame-bait article.
That's not a great example, seeing as how Microsoft ultimately won that battle.
Intel, maybe. AMD, being the shifty SOB's they have to be will happily stab both Intel and Microsoft in the back for a 15% market share. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that any new AMD processor in the next 5 years will run Windows 7 with minor to none tweeks.
"Eve of Destruction", it's not just for old hippies anymore...
MIPS (Loongson), SPARC (Unknown, but in one of the supercomputers as the IO processors?), and Alpha (Floating Point Processors, maybe with SSE type extensions.)
I was rather disappointed that China has not put more push into mass producing derivatives of these chips, especially utilizing hypertransport and possibly AMD's sockets to compete with Wintel domination in the market. There was apparently a Loongson laptop build with an 760G or related chipset, but they were expensive and almost impossible to find when releases, on a short production run.
The hardware is mature enough and ram is cheap. With PCI passthrough and modern video cards I can afford a 2% frame loss for games since that is all I use windows for. It also makes reboots cheap and easy while browsing the web on another VM. Furthermore it provides a sandbox for security risky applications like web browsers where it can be setup temp/read only and resets at boot. It makes it easy for me to migrate the windows installations so they are no longer locked down to a single machine. So I can setup games once for it's intended windows version and then forget about it. It also empowers easy incremental backups.
Only problematic thing is the cracks I still need to use for games I purchased. I'm one of the few holdouts from steam. I'm old school and like boxes and actually installation media when it's available. But with game VM's being sandboxed it's not so bad. When games get released without copy protection I ultimately buy those versions of the CD or the GOG download. Only thing I use steam for is online games since those games will all go EOL and disappear in 10 years anyways; which is why I incidentally try to stay away from most of them.
Actually, I wish somebody made a SPARC workstation (the cheaper ones when Sun was around), fired it up w/ something like a FreeBSD/TrueOS and then on top of that, had a layer to run old SunOS software. That would be a good start. Hopefully, FreeBSD would have no trouble running old BSD software on the same CPU platform. Then if needed, another layer could be added that would allow it to run Solaris software as well.
The whole thing is backwards. Chips don't run on OS's. ("Kaby Lake will only run on Windows 10 or newer?")
What it really means is support for new features in new chips will be added in Win10, but not added to Win7/8/8.1, etc.
Collusion anyone for market control etc? Anticompetitive behavior?
Just add these to the growing list of hardware that is Linux only.
It's usually older gear such as PCI cards or scanners that makes the list, so it's nice to have some newer CPUs on our side too.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Which spun up a shitstorm that died down, then TPM modules were introduced and today both Microsoft and Google, and in parallel Arm manufacturers use the technology to restrict what the 'consumers' (since they may physically own it, but don't digitally own it) can install, modify, and run on their PCs and/or ARM based computers, whether single board computer (SBC), tablet, tv box, or cellular phone. And they just keep lapping it up, while those of us concerned about these ownership and privacy issues are too impotent to get ACTUAL open source, user accessable, securable, and modifiable processors and systems designed, funding, and produced. The failure isn't with the consumers enslaving themselves to this liberty failing technology, but rather to us the tech, security, and privacy nerds/hackers/engineers/programmers/professionals for not retaking control of our own systems by building actual hardware and systems outside the control of thse companies, and by extension the societies, governments, and 'leadership' types who benefit from the slow boiling of the waters of privacy and self control.
Ponder on what I have said and see what YOU can do to start making a difference. You might not be able to save the masses, but if you save your fellow nerds the opportunities for the future won't cease.
you're fucking retarded if you think this is a realistic possibility
... what does that mean for OSX? It runs on Intel hardware these days too.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
OR is Linux now history?
MS baning steam = antitrust
That case is exactly what your parent was referring too. It happened before Microsoft went to Washington. The Justice Department won't go near Microsoft now, it's against the best interests of their masters.
So many "M$ is dead, we're all moving to Linux" comments...
Yea, I heard that 15 years ago when Windows XP came out, then Vista, then 8...
For all of you who seem to think "everyone is running Linux these days" because your SMALL CIRCLE OF LINUX FRIENDS ARE, I have a news flash for you:
You aren't the center of the world
Normal people haven't even HEARD of Linux, much less know what the hell it is... you all live in your little bubble and think your family and friends are "normal people", but they aren't...
All I have to do is look at the marketshare of Linux on the desktop to know what is happening there... call me when it passes Mac OS X and then I'll be remotely interested, until then it is and remains a server OS.
Will older chips still be able to run the latest version of Windows 10?
linquendum tondere
Making a new chip incompatible with older operating systems is stupid. And what about alternatives to Windows? Apple relies on Intel for CPUs for their computer line.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
Microsoft has been warning people for ages that Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10
So installing WinXP/Win7/Win8 on KabyLake will fail?
Intel will certainly not let that happen -- they would lose sales to their corporate customers who are slow to upgrade their OSes.
KabyLake's implementation of the x86_64 architecture will absolutely be backwards-compatible to their previous generations (Skylake, SandyBridge, etc.), just like all previous generations have been. Once Intel adds a feature (take MMX for example), it never goes away.
If those are Microsoft's exact words, then Microsoft is telling a pants-on-fire lie.
It's certainly possible that some new KabyLake-specific features might not have drivers available for old versions of Windows. But obviously, an older OS like Win7 couldn't possibly use that feature anyway, so the lack of that driver is a non-issue anyway.
There is no new story here. It's just a repeat of the same old story: Microsoft uses FUD as a marketing tactic.
Meaningless Indicator of Processor Speed ... is still useful in pointing out to old IBM customers/operators how irrelevant the MF has become.
Respect the Constitution
Yes, it would be, in our opinions, a stupid move for AMD and Intel. But both are private companies and get to do what they want, within the limits of the law.
They are both publicly traded companies who answer to their share holders.
They pull a stunt like that and the share holders will drop them like a sack of rotten potato's! Stock prices plummet, C-Level execs are out of a job and with no money they don't get a severance package.
That's not a great example, seeing as how Microsoft ultimately won that battle.
"Won?" Well, that's debatable. After all the appeals, neither side got exactly what it wanted, but I'll grant you that MS ultimately got the better side of the deal: no split into two companies, but it did release details of their API, and showed more glasnost than they had previously.
The point is that the Department of Justice showed that it had the cojones to go after Microsoft, and that made MS proceed more cautiously thereafter.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Most systems sold in the last five years use ARM processors, and Linux, mostly with the Android UI.
If you choose Linux, you normally don't need the distributor to provide an ARM version of whatever software you want. If it's not already in the repo for your distribution, you just do: ./configure && make && make install
That's not a great example, seeing as how Microsoft ultimately won that battle.
Yet we have Dell shipping Ubuntu laptops (XPS, Insprion and Precision) that they certainly weren't before.
The headline is a little misleading, considering the CPU runs the OS and not the other way around. It should really say,
"Microsoft creates walled garden for CPU feature support in upcoming SKUs from AMD and Intel."
Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
Skin crawling.
That's not a great example, seeing as how Microsoft ultimately won that battle.
"Won?" Well, that's debatable. After all the appeals, neither side got exactly what it wanted, but I'll grant you that MS ultimately got the better side of the deal: no split into two companies, but it did release details of their API, and showed more glasnost than they had previously.
The point is that the Department of Justice showed that it had the cojones to go after Microsoft, and that made MS proceed more cautiously thereafter.
Nah, there will be ways to hack them.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
If I really need a Windows environment, I'll spin one up in VMWare. It works just fine there and it's not like I'm gaming on it.
Fuck Microsoft and their attempt to force upgrades by removing choice from the owner of the computer.
And damn Intel and AMD for slobbing the Redmond knob and helping them!
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
It comes off as *only* Windows 10. That's borderline Huffpo click bait as of course x86 Linux users don't have to lose a moment's sleep over this distressing headline. :-)
The costs would be higher than the benefits to them. It's not even any fun to have MS as any sort of bad guy without Bill Gates. I miss the ultimate villian who could be likened to the Borg without irony and without offending Mr. Gates. Where are we going to find another kick as, perfect villian again?!!
Microsoft is not going to support new CPUs in older Windows.
Why are you blaming Intel/AMD for it?
Fuck ms... They are rolling down
the hill still sucking and breaking anything there get near to.
I think you have it the wrong way round. When dealing with some aspects of the Micros~1 ecosystem, wine is completely inadequate; start with special brew.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
- but this announcement makes no sense to me.
...Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10, ...
Surely the CPU doesn't run on the OS? And a CPU, being a HW device to run a wide range of SW on, will by necessity have an instruction set that will support any OS, if somebody can be bothered to port it.
It's just marketing wank. In other news Windows 3.1 didn't support SSE4 either.
Well, that headline was certainly assbackwards. Either intentionally or whoever wrote it was stupid, drunk, malicious or any combination thereof.
Let's see here:
New Intel and AMD Chips Will Only Support Windows 10
You get the impression that it's part of the design of these chips, as developed by Intel and AMD, that they will require Windows 10.
That's false.
The truth is that Microsoft will only be supporting these new chips in Windows 10, furthering their efforts to piss all over their existing customer base not yet on Windows 10, instead remaining on Windows 7 and 8.x, thus trying to force them over to Windows 10, screaming if need be.
In other words, Intel and AMD are not in the wrong here, but Microsoft is.
The new chips will work perfectly fine in Linux, for example.
What a shitty headline. Really bad, even for Slashdot.
Only natural, since windows are made of silicon and oxygen
Orwell was a committed socialist - it was a warning against totalitarianism and Soviet style communism.
Goodbye Programming, Goodbye USA
Hey editors, isn't this a misleading title?
The implications of having a truly-really-strictly windows only CPU backed by Intel and AMD would have been different.
It's not that the chips will only support Windows 10, it's that Windows will only support the chips in version 10.
These chips are supported by Linux and macOS, for instance. Generally speaking, the chipset doesn't support the software, the software supports the chipset.
This is an incredibly shrewd move by Microsoft.
All the millions of copies of pre-W10 Windows still in use are essentially "dead" to Microsoft: they are in fact an overhead, since MS have to continue to host all the patches and update materials for these releases, but can't generate revenue from them once the product is sold and installed. However, from a Microsoft perspective, W10 is the product that keeps on giving. It's incredibly intrusive SpyWareOS(TM) capabilities mean that the moment you have installed it, you become a Microsoft Product again. At any point in time they can send an update to your machine [because you can't turn off auto-update] that reverses any privacy settings you have made. They're not obliged to tell you that they have done it.
In other Words, this move will prevent people from moving their personally-owned Windows 7/8/8.1 Licenses to newer hardware in the event of a hardware failure, so that, over time, those people will be forced to upgrade to SpyWareOS and become part of the Microsoft Product.
Microsoft's defence against any potential future investigations by Monopoly/Market Abuse investigators will be: "It is unreasonable to expect us to continue to offer support for legacy software forever Additionally, we have not only made upgrading to Windows 10 incredibly simple, but we have actually made it free for all existing users for a considerable period of time. Lastly, anyone not happy can go buy a Mac..." And certainly, in most of the world, that will be enough.
What this does is force anyone happy enough to run older Windows versions to upgrade, whether they like it or not. Or migrate. One thing that wasn't completely clear from either this post or the linked articles though: will the new CPU actually prevent say W7 from running at all? Will it's ID string be so alien that older versions of Windows simply won't recognise it and refuse to install? HP tried something like this by putting tiny ICs into their original toner cartridges, such that 3rd party cartridges would not work in their printers. That got overturned in court, though, because it was shown that the IC served no purpose other than to act as a barrier to entry. Could this be shown in a similar light? i.e. Could it be argued that some sneaky microcode work-around serves no purpose other than to enforce the hegemony?
Anyone fluent in legalese lurking today?
Seems like I hardly knew ye... I won't touch Win10 for at least 5 years, and maybe never if they follow through with their subscription non-sense...
I usually reach for my bottle of 85+ abv absinthe.
Eat the rich.
That was a very clickbaity title /., which is irritating and amateur. It sounds like the chips won't run any other OS but Win10, and so I click on it in shock that I'm going to have trouble (since I use Linux) and figure the article would adress that, but find out that it only means it won't run OLD Windows OS's.
Since when does the CPU run on the Operating System? Windows runs on the CPU not the other way around.
Talking about shooting yourself in the foot. I don't know what utter moron makes these sorts of decisions at M$, but they are really fucking retarded. If M$ keeps annoying users they will switch away from Windows.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
I don't know how our FTC could in good faith accept our money.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
"Older Windows Won't Run on New Intel and AMD Chips"
Because nobody is going to write drivers for Windows 7 and 8. Any other OS with drivers will work, Linux and OSX among them. Just imagine Intel giving up the whole server market.
Does this "deep integration" mean sleep/suspend/hibernate will finally work right all the time on Windows machines?
Because that would be great.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Danegeld: "a land tax levied in medieval England, originally to raise funds for protection against Danish invaders."
If some gaming companies started aiming at the 5-20 dollar pricepoint with physical media and some minimalist swag (box, some gimmick to go with the game, hell, even a decoder as a copy protection method) I might consider buying some new games again. Without physical media however, few modern games have looked good enough to warrant playing, nevermind buying, and of those, the only truly inspiring one was NMS, which as it turned out was a huge scam. (Thankfully I couldn't afford it at release and by the time I could it was already dispelled.)
I see older chips that are pre-Kaby, and pre-Zen selling far faster, and in larger quantities than the new chips. The reality is there are still far too many Windows users utilizing Windows 7 over Windows 10.
It's like someone commented before... Hello Linux.
What if there are other chip designers that don't need to build backward compatible chips, and instead can focus on new architectures? I think that this is more a sign of the changing competition landscape than anything else.
Same here.
If you want to game on it, you can do that too if you use a KVM install and a video-card with passthrough.
How about putting on a virtualization layer, like XEN, then putting on your preferred windows flavor?
The problem is, Windows 7 is good until 2020, no-one wants 8.x or Vista, XP is no longer supported. 10 will be the inevitable windows choice in about 3.25 years.
Flappinbooger isn't my real name
Microsoft has been warning people for ages that Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10
First, operating systems run on hardware, not the other way around.
Second, TFA has no idea of the implications, only that Intel isn't going to waste energy and resources polishing drivers for a nearly 10-year old OS revision. I'll bet that holds true for 10-year-old MacOS and Linux kernels as well, although they might not target specific hardware in quite so integrated (in the poor design sense) a manner as does Windows 10. Maybe Win7/8 will run fine but not be able to access some of the newer hardware features. Maybe they won't boot. No one speaking publicly knows yet. Summary seems more FUD than fact.
at least use a working link:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090912141212/http://ixnotes.wordpress.com/2009/09/06/microsoft-propaganda-handed-out-to-staples-employees/
And the cloud will be forced upon you...
So long as it still executes x86, or x64, and has a "legacy mode" in the BIOS then it will run with Xp, Vista, 7.... unless MS purposefully blocks their use via windows update.
Wow, That is complete marketing bullshit. The only way it makes sense is if those were two separate sentences.
"This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability" -- No Win10, no shiny CPU for you.
+
"compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon" -- non-shiny CPUs continue to work with Win10.
Unfortunately, China as a whole seems to be pretty bad at doing anything besides copying stuff, and usually badly. They seem to excel only when some western company comes in and shows them exactly what to do and how to do it; when that happens, they're great at pumping out ridiculous quantities of something. But there seems to be some kind of piece missing where they're unable to use their impressive mass-manufacturing skills to actually make stuff people want without foreign help.
... So what your saying is I now need to run Windows in a virtual environment.
so what I run ESI or something to then run Windows... yeah w/e M$
Dear /.
For fuck's sake: the headline is backwards.
It's Microsoft that won't support the new chips outside of Win10, not the other way around...
It feels like it is _intentionally_ misleading no less.
Slashdoot has really taken a nosedive in quality.
I'm glad I'm OS agnostic, obviously having a favorite makes you into a liar and an asshat.
we will stop buying them then. Buy NVIDIA
PCLinuxOS works outta the box....F***....Microsoft
Looks like the yummy snack of the 90's got stale in the 2000's and is becoming too moldy to swallow. Shame there are no alternatives... Oh wait, Linux, Android, ios, assembly languages, RTOS, etc.
OSX?
Assuming that by PlayStation you meant a PlayStation 4, not the original 1995 PlayStation, how many PS4 games tolerate mods? True, some people have reasons to prefer a vanilla experience, but without mods, there wouldn't be Team Fortress or Counter-Strike or the entire MOBA genre (which began with a mod titled DotA).
Nah! Find an open source equiv app
Sometimes there isn't one. Players for rented movies are a big deal for this, as is tax preparation software updated annually for dozens of jurisdictions with guaranteed accurate calculations.
Rented streaming movies come with digital restrictions management to deter keeping a movie longer than the agreed-upon rental period. This cannot be made free software because a user of free software could insert the equivalent of a tee command to make a pristine digital copy of the work to keep.
Likewise, individual and small business income tax preparation software has to be updated annually for each state or province, and "ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY" on the expert translation from legalese into program code doesn't cut it.
If there is so little demand and nobody builds their own systems why is there such a huge selection of motherboards, cases, processors and peripherals to chose from? Not just online but local retail?
Because some people's use cases allow a desktop PC. Other people, on the other hand, really need a laptop in order to get work done during the carpool or transit commute. And perhaps I haven't looked hard enough or live in the wrong place, but I haven't seen a wide variety of barebone laptops in "local retail".
Google KVM?
Not everybody wants to have to buy two computers, one on which to run each operating system, and use a keyboard, video, and mouse switch. It's especially impractical for laptop users.
(looks down past the ads)
Oh, you meant that KVM. How well do, for example, games and CAD run under the Virgil virtual GPU?
I wonder if this means Chromebox will eventually go all ARM.
Like many others here I find this pushing for windows 10 at the point of explosion.
Currently I use windows 8, I see it as a compromise, as it can be made to run very similar to windows 7, you get very similar levels of control albedit I do think its a bit less stable. But its a way to use modern apps on a stable code base.
Windows 10 where control of updates is removed along with a ton of data mining is not my cup of tea and hence I refuse to run it.
If push comes to shove and the day comes that I buy hardware that wont run on windows 8, or win8 reaches EOL for support, then I will switch to linux for daily tasks, windows would be on dual boot purely for running games only.
Linux as a desktop is very useable now days, its design is similar to win9x gui and performance in many cases is vastly superior due to the less bloat on the system.
[youtube.com]
I was hoping for a text article, not videos, because I can skim a text article in a lot less than 8:18 + 14:57 = 23:15 plus interstitial ads. But from the first minute of the second video, it appears to have a separate GPU for each guest operating system. I don't see that happening very easily in a laptop. GPU bypass with one GPU means you can run one guest operating system at once, making this a glorified dual boot.
Micro$oft forcing Windows upon people demonstrates their own internal beliefs that given choice their product is not desirable.
I am sorry but the title is just backwards. It is not that the new CPUs that will only support Windows 10 (I am sure we will be able to run all sort of Linux and BSD flavors) it is rather that older Windows versions that will not get updated to support new platforms (as correctly stated in the body of the post).