They are already doing it . Chumps are buying Android tablets with encrypted boot loaders. They think that because they can go to forums and download "custom roms" they're not in the garden, but they are. The encrypted boot loader is to keep people from installing (your distro) natively and to support DRM. So you can get roms that essentially amount to themes and apps that should just work anyway (and would just be there if you had an ipad) but you can't put gentoo on it. *This means you don't own your hardware anymore*.
Next up: motherboards with secure boot with UEFI. Since most people are chumps the day will come when unlocked hardware is no longer available to anyone.
And it all starts with the realization that you can't actually implement a DRM solution in software only. You *must* control the hardware and if you pay attention you can see the baby steps we're taking in that direction.
Wrong. A lot of people are boycotting hollywood, me included. Not only that I never miss an opportunity to remind people that buying a movie ticket *is* voting with your money. I've said as much several times in this forum, usually prompting replies that amount to "Well any boycott of Hollywood won't be successful so we'll just keep watching movies and complaining."
If you buy a movie ticket, purchase a cd or dvd YOU ARE VOTING FOR SOPA/PIPA.
Also, I'm boycotting Android because locked hardware is unreasonable (selling unlocked tablets and then locking them is stealing btw) and Google could damn well do something about it if they weren't evil. Even if it is just me picketing them from my living room -at least I don't feel like a hypocrite.
There has never been a movie made by anyone that's so good it offsets the damage the copyright lobby has done to our culture since 1978 and not one dime of my money will support them. It's *just* entertainment.
I think the breaking of layers is a little bit deliberate.
I've always explained "Linux" to people as a stack of layers where what's in each layer can be replaced. You can choose which system logger you want, which cron daemon you want, etc. And "distributions" are organizations who make those choices for you. Not all distros will choose the same system logger.
This flexibility makes almost anything possible, but niche use cases are becoming targets. The way things are looking, if Lennart Pottering doesn't think your use case is worth supporting, well, too bad because now we all have to use systemd and systemd has tentacles.
Android too. I used to see it as completely awesome until I bought an unlocked galaxy tablet and Samsung locked it for me a few months later. Now here I am in a walled garden just like an ipad -the only difference is that I have to rely on (ahem) "developers" to make apps work where they're already just there and working on ipad. Oh, and somehow I'm supposed to be impressed with the openness of Android since I can jump through 20 hoops and get sshd running on a 600 dollar not-a-phone LINUX tablet. Can't flash BIOS or change bootloaders though because then I might do something crazy like install native debian.
KDE, firefox, gnome, android...they all want to "control the experience".
BTW, I run gentoo for the same reasons you do. Because it lets me choose.
I told you already, Debian is the best at updates even across multiple versions. Also, OpenSuse and Fedora are where experiments happen and I doubt an "experienced Linux Admin" would be using them for something really important -unless she has the requisite depth to deal with a little breakage during an upgrade.
And posting again and again and again the same rant about an ABI isn't going to change the FACT that a stable ABI for drivers would make things worse for everyone. You keep trying to make comparisons to Windows in areas where it makes no sense at all to compare the two.
What's it going to take for you to realize that nobody cares if Linux gains market share on the desktop? You're making arguments (for years now) based the assumption that market share is a goal when in fact no one has such a goal.
Your perspective on this is so wrong and you've been corrected so many times by so many people I can't help but wonder if you've got some kind of learning disability or OCD or something. Seriously, not trying to be insulting at all. You've apparently started down this road in 2004 with some wrong assumptions that you just can't let go of, and that's really why you're so frustrated now.
So did Google require it, or is Samsung just a dishonest company? (by dishonest I don't mean the leaked statement above, I mean boosting sales with unlocked tablets and then locking them later)
Asus pretty much "blamed" Google for encrypting the boot loader on the Prime. I haven't seen any statements from Samsung on the matter. I did call and email support to see if they would, phone support told me to email and email support told me to phone.
Anyway, I know Samsung cannot be trusted and I'm suspicious of Google.
And this is a start. The recent story around the Asus Prime indicates that Google Video may be the reason that non-phone wifi only tablets have locked boot loaders, so I'm not seeing Android as "open" anymore. Really hope this is good.
Re:So how's the Windows version coming along?
on
KDE 4.8 Released
·
· Score: 1
Please, what driver is missing from Linux now that would suddenly be available if we (stupidly) gave you the stable ABI you won't stop demanding?
I can appreciate your perspective in some areas but this focus you have on a stable ABI is really off. You said it yourself, "If a company is gonna be open to FOSS the ABI isn't gonna change their minds one way or another" , and you are correct. Having a stable ABI isn't going to make previously non-existent drivers appear, it'll just allow the current ones to go unmaintained and rot.
Also, "the community" simply doesn't give damn whether shops are selling systems with Linux installed and this "stepping up to the plate" thing is never ever *ever* going to happen so stop asking already. If you want to sell Linux systems, start with the distro that has the best reputation regarding updates that don't break (even across major versions), Debian, and then YOU support it yourself.
This is the only option you will ever have. Really, let that sink in because your rants on this topic are so tiresome and misinformed. Only. Option. Ever.
Re:So how's the Windows version coming along?
on
KDE 4.8 Released
·
· Score: 1
I don't understand where the idea comes from, that a stable ABI is needed on linux. It's already trivial from me to download new drivers (it's called a kernel update and it happens about once a month) and I get them all from a central repository -on Windows I have to burn my time hunting for them.
The last thing I need is to for things to change so I have to navigate various vendor websites looking for drivers.
They were selling unlocked galaxy 10.1's, I bought one after opening it in the store and verifying the rumor...I enabled updates to get the new UI, not knowing that it had an extra step "...encrypting bootloader." Now it just sits on a shelf next to my Joe Samsung voodoo doll.
Encrypted bootloaders should be illegal on consumer devices. Trusted Computing should never have been allowed to sneak in slowly like it did. There were all those protests and objections, some lip service was paid, and here we are, fucked by the sheep again.
If the Android version doesn't have a (securely) locked bootloader too then yes you will be able to.
They all do though. I bought a galaxy 10.1 *specifically* because it came unlocked but they locked it in an OTA update three months later. This isn't even a phone, it's WIFI only...(seriously DIAF samsung, I will hate you forever)
No one would tolerate a PC that you can't flash BIOS on but there seems to be and endless supply of idiots and fanboys who think that somehow a tablet is "different".
Look at the topic, take a few moments to understand it. Now read your own post and see that you've merely listed several motivations in an annoying fashion and done nothing to help answer the topical question. Anyone who uses puzzles to screen applicants should not hire you.
The problem is that if weren't unnecessary abstraction layers and illogical "real world" metaphors there wouldn't *be* any unskilled users. These interfaces not only assume you're ignorant, they *keep* you ignorant.
The premise that I disagree with is that it's okay for people to go on thinking that "Safari is the internet". This isn't rocket science. Having some basic grasp of a hierarchy, or understanding the concept of a URL would not be difficult if the UI(s) weren't so disconnected from reality.
Um, pulse audio was a nightmare on *every* distribution for a *long* time. Might still be, I wouldn't know. I'm still holding on to my SB's so I don't need that crap.
This is backwards. Advocates of this idea should be the one to jump through hoops to justify taking away an option that has been there forever.
This idea doesn't solve even one problem for anyone. Anyone who can't grasp the file system will still be stupid after Fedora changes it, but mounting/usr on its own will no longer be an option. How is that an improvement?
They will break it, but don't worry they'll convince several other distros to follow their lead, since apparently they own Linux now. I'm not worried about breakage, only annoyed at the prospect of jumping through hoops to get no measurable gain.
Thing is, this whole thing is bullshit. *No one* who understands enough to be messing with lib paths is confused by the file system, and when this is done, anyone unable to understand the current system *STILL WON'T UNDERSTAND*. All that will happen is everyone once again re-arranging their lives to satisfy some whim at fedora/rh.
The United States of America has an incarceration rate of 743 per 100,000 of national population (as of 2009), the highest in the world.[2] In comparison, Russia has the second highest 577 per 100,000, Canada is 123rd in the world with 117 per 100,000, and China has 120 per 100,000.[2] While Americans only represent about 5 percent of the world's population, one-quarter of the entire world's inmates are incarcerated in the United States.[3]
by any chance were y'all an early adopter of CFEngine?
All in-house tools back then (though I wasn't there). Well, still actually. There are hallway conversations about chef and puppet. Some very well thought out scripts and rsync still work so there isn't a very strong motivation to experiment. A few people want to be able to put Puppet on their resume so it ( or something else ) will probably show up somewhere sooner or later.
I have to agree that labels are useful, but I also think this devops thing is a bit silly. Specifically I mean the enthusiasm around it, as if it's some kind of revelation. Well, I work in an environment where everyone is a developer and everyone has root. Maybe that's not as common as I thought.
Slashdot Mirror
They are already doing it . Chumps are buying Android tablets with encrypted boot loaders. They think that because they can go to forums and download "custom roms" they're not in the garden, but they are. The encrypted boot loader is to keep people from installing (your distro) natively and to support DRM. So you can get roms that essentially amount to themes and apps that should just work anyway (and would just be there if you had an ipad) but you can't put gentoo on it. *This means you don't own your hardware anymore*.
Next up: motherboards with secure boot with UEFI. Since most people are chumps the day will come when unlocked hardware is no longer available to anyone.
And it all starts with the realization that you can't actually implement a DRM solution in software only. You *must* control the hardware and if you pay attention you can see the baby steps we're taking in that direction.
those who refuse to boycott them
Wrong. A lot of people are boycotting hollywood, me included. Not only that I never miss an opportunity to remind people that buying a movie ticket *is* voting with your money. I've said as much several times in this forum, usually prompting replies that amount to "Well any boycott of Hollywood won't be successful so we'll just keep watching movies and complaining." If you buy a movie ticket, purchase a cd or dvd YOU ARE VOTING FOR SOPA/PIPA. Also, I'm boycotting Android because locked hardware is unreasonable (selling unlocked tablets and then locking them is stealing btw) and Google could damn well do something about it if they weren't evil. Even if it is just me picketing them from my living room -at least I don't feel like a hypocrite.
There has never been a movie made by anyone that's so good it offsets the damage the copyright lobby has done to our culture since 1978 and not one dime of my money will support them. It's *just* entertainment.
HOLLYWOOD MUST DIE
I think the breaking of layers is a little bit deliberate.
I've always explained "Linux" to people as a stack of layers where what's in each layer can be replaced. You can choose which system logger you want, which cron daemon you want, etc. And "distributions" are organizations who make those choices for you. Not all distros will choose the same system logger.
This flexibility makes almost anything possible, but niche use cases are becoming targets. The way things are looking, if Lennart Pottering doesn't think your use case is worth supporting, well, too bad because now we all have to use systemd and systemd has tentacles.
Android too. I used to see it as completely awesome until I bought an unlocked galaxy tablet and Samsung locked it for me a few months later. Now here I am in a walled garden just like an ipad -the only difference is that I have to rely on (ahem) "developers" to make apps work where they're already just there and working on ipad. Oh, and somehow I'm supposed to be impressed with the openness of Android since I can jump through 20 hoops and get sshd running on a 600 dollar not-a-phone LINUX tablet. Can't flash BIOS or change bootloaders though because then I might do something crazy like install native debian.
KDE, firefox, gnome, android...they all want to "control the experience".
BTW, I run gentoo for the same reasons you do. Because it lets me choose.
I told you already, Debian is the best at updates even across multiple versions. Also, OpenSuse and Fedora are where experiments happen and I doubt an "experienced Linux Admin" would be using them for something really important -unless she has the requisite depth to deal with a little breakage during an upgrade.
And posting again and again and again the same rant about an ABI isn't going to change the FACT that a stable ABI for drivers would make things worse for everyone. You keep trying to make comparisons to Windows in areas where it makes no sense at all to compare the two.
What's it going to take for you to realize that nobody cares if Linux gains market share on the desktop? You're making arguments (for years now) based the assumption that market share is a goal when in fact no one has such a goal.
Your perspective on this is so wrong and you've been corrected so many times by so many people I can't help but wonder if you've got some kind of learning disability or OCD or something. Seriously, not trying to be insulting at all. You've apparently started down this road in 2004 with some wrong assumptions that you just can't let go of, and that's really why you're so frustrated now.
Well, why did samsung sell unlocked wifi only tablets and then lock encrypt them at the same time they added google video? Also, this:
http://phandroid.com/2011/04/17/source-samsung-will-not-lock-bootloaders-unless-google-requires-it/
So did Google require it, or is Samsung just a dishonest company? (by dishonest I don't mean the leaked statement above, I mean boosting sales with unlocked tablets and then locking them later)
Asus pretty much "blamed" Google for encrypting the boot loader on the Prime. I haven't seen any statements from Samsung on the matter. I did call and email support to see if they would, phone support told me to email and email support told me to phone.
Anyway, I know Samsung cannot be trusted and I'm suspicious of Google.
And this is a start. The recent story around the Asus Prime indicates that Google Video may be the reason that non-phone wifi only tablets have locked boot loaders, so I'm not seeing Android as "open" anymore. Really hope this is good.
Please, what driver is missing from Linux now that would suddenly be available if we (stupidly) gave you the stable ABI you won't stop demanding?
I can appreciate your perspective in some areas but this focus you have on a stable ABI is really off. You said it yourself, "If a company is gonna be open to FOSS the ABI isn't gonna change their minds one way or another" , and you are correct. Having a stable ABI isn't going to make previously non-existent drivers appear, it'll just allow the current ones to go unmaintained and rot.
Also, "the community" simply doesn't give damn whether shops are selling systems with Linux installed and this "stepping up to the plate" thing is never ever *ever* going to happen so stop asking already. If you want to sell Linux systems, start with the distro that has the best reputation regarding updates that don't break (even across major versions), Debian, and then YOU support it yourself.
This is the only option you will ever have. Really, let that sink in because your rants on this topic are so tiresome and misinformed. Only. Option. Ever.
I don't understand where the idea comes from, that a stable ABI is needed on linux. It's already trivial from me to download new drivers (it's called a kernel update and it happens about once a month) and I get them all from a central repository -on Windows I have to burn my time hunting for them.
The last thing I need is to for things to change so I have to navigate various vendor websites looking for drivers.
They were selling unlocked galaxy 10.1's, I bought one after opening it in the store and verifying the rumor...I enabled updates to get the new UI, not knowing that it had an extra step "...encrypting bootloader." Now it just sits on a shelf next to my Joe Samsung voodoo doll.
I trusted Samsung and all I got was a locked bootloader :/
I look forward to alternatives.
What about everyone stops going to the movies?
Or, 'Don't worry Trusted Computing is for banks and the NSA, it won't really affect you, it's not like it's one day going to be on everything.'
Encrypted bootloaders should be illegal on consumer devices. Trusted Computing should never have been allowed to sneak in slowly like it did. There were all those protests and objections, some lip service was paid, and here we are, fucked by the sheep again.
If the Android version doesn't have a (securely) locked bootloader too then yes you will be able to.
They all do though. I bought a galaxy 10.1 *specifically* because it came unlocked but they locked it in an OTA update three months later. This isn't even a phone, it's WIFI only...(seriously DIAF samsung, I will hate you forever)
No one would tolerate a PC that you can't flash BIOS on but there seems to be and endless supply of idiots and fanboys who think that somehow a tablet is "different".
It's good that you posted as AC.
Look at the topic, take a few moments to understand it. Now read your own post and see that you've merely listed several motivations in an annoying fashion and done nothing to help answer the topical question. Anyone who uses puzzles to screen applicants should not hire you.
The problem is that if weren't unnecessary abstraction layers and illogical "real world" metaphors there wouldn't *be* any unskilled users. These interfaces not only assume you're ignorant, they *keep* you ignorant.
The premise that I disagree with is that it's okay for people to go on thinking that "Safari is the internet". This isn't rocket science. Having some basic grasp of a hierarchy, or understanding the concept of a URL would not be difficult if the UI(s) weren't so disconnected from reality.
This isn't about innovation. This is about Lennart wanting to control a few key pieces so that he can unilaterally remove obstacles to his own ideas.
IMO, to date, he has not solved one real problem, and I don't understand why anyone listens to him. His ideas are terrible.
That's not true.
What's the difference between a "disc" and a "disk?"
Um, pulse audio was a nightmare on *every* distribution for a *long* time. Might still be, I wouldn't know. I'm still holding on to my SB's so I don't need that crap.
This is backwards. Advocates of this idea should be the one to jump through hoops to justify taking away an option that has been there forever.
This idea doesn't solve even one problem for anyone. Anyone who can't grasp the file system will still be stupid after Fedora changes it, but mounting /usr on its own will no longer be an option. How is that an improvement?
They will break it, but don't worry they'll convince several other distros to follow their lead, since apparently they own Linux now. I'm not worried about breakage, only annoyed at the prospect of jumping through hoops to get no measurable gain.
Thing is, this whole thing is bullshit. *No one* who understands enough to be messing with lib paths is confused by the file system, and when this is done, anyone unable to understand the current system *STILL WON'T UNDERSTAND*. All that will happen is everyone once again re-arranging their lives to satisfy some whim at fedora/rh.
The United States of America has an incarceration rate of 743 per 100,000 of national population (as of 2009), the highest in the world.[2] In comparison, Russia has the second highest 577 per 100,000, Canada is 123rd in the world with 117 per 100,000, and China has 120 per 100,000.[2] While Americans only represent about 5 percent of the world's population, one-quarter of the entire world's inmates are incarcerated in the United States.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate
Which party? When did that become relevant? Do you think this is some kind of fake grass roots thing to favor one party over another?
I don't think so. I think the people protesting well understand that game is rigged on all sides.
by any chance were y'all an early adopter of CFEngine?
All in-house tools back then (though I wasn't there). Well, still actually. There are hallway conversations about chef and puppet. Some very well thought out scripts and rsync still work so there isn't a very strong motivation to experiment. A few people want to be able to put Puppet on their resume so it ( or something else ) will probably show up somewhere sooner or later.
I have to agree that labels are useful, but I also think this devops thing is a bit silly. Specifically I mean the enthusiasm around it, as if it's some kind of revelation. Well, I work in an environment where everyone is a developer and everyone has root. Maybe that's not as common as I thought.