Look, every defense of java I see is from developers and that defense is ostensibly about developing in java. How about considering how much it sucks for end users and admins who have to manage all this stuff?
Sure, just about every kid that graduated in the last 5 years knows java, I understand why there's so many java developers, but ffs with so many of you you'd think you'd be able to get together, pick one and say THIS is java.
No joke, I've seen devs in the same shop that struggle all day trying to get each others code to run each others workstations.
You've responded to an assertion I did not make. Is that because my actual assertion(s) cannot be rebutted? Or do you think people reading this will fail to spot the obvious logical disconnect between your comment and mine?
Sun don't have the capability, and I'm not sure that anyone has, to provide a full and relevant specification that will allow code to be developed that will run on any application server from any vendor.
And that's why end users groan when a good idea gets written in java.
How many flavors of java are there now? Too many I think, even the abstraction layers distros use to manage the mess don't work half the time. It's gotten to the point where if I discover the only existing solution is written in java I just go without.
Really, I don't even try anymore. There may be some great software out there that runs super fast and bug free, but I'll never know, don't want to know.
This "you owe me something, how dare you not satisfy my wishes"
Your on about something else entirely. This has nothing to do any sense of entitlement as you are and were aware before you made that statement. And pretending you know nothing about.0 releases doesn't change reality.
No. It is ALWAYS the speakers responsibility to make himself understood. Thats a law of the universe fact bud. Just move on already.
Second, 'API Stable'? Too late. Defined already. By the rest of the world. You don't get to redefine it with some qualifying sentence later.
Look how many posts here in this thread point out and PROVE that your revisionist history is false. Citations and links even. Bad decisions were made, but enough time has passed that it's only still being talked about because you and others can't give trying to change the past.
People read '4.0'. The people who made the decision to call it knew damn well what they were communicating to the public by calling it 4.0.
I haven't actually used any version of kde4 yet so I don't know or care how bad 4.0 was. But I do that if I don't understand what you're saying, it's YOUR FAULT. EVERY TIME. If you want to be understood it is your responsibility to make yourself understood. There is no onus on me to understand what you write or what comes out of your mouth.
It is the SPEAKERS responsibility to make sure he is understood. It is NOT the listeners responsibility to understand.
Calling an application -.0 MEANS something. The KDE devs who made that decision were very much aware of what they were communicating when they made that decision. The miscommunication is 100% their fault.
In my opinion no one in the universe is more an "authority" on usability than any other person in the universe. I think this Usability Expert idea is bs and the subject is 100% subjective.
Re:The Zen of First Post
on
The Zen of SOA
·
· Score: 3, Insightful
What you're calling a 'kit' I call 'unnecessary layers of abstraction' whether it's an application or yet another layer of management in an organization. From my perspective the number of software developers and executives that think another layer of abstraction is just the ticket has been growing exponentially for about a decade.
Look how you're talking to people, you see that in online forums, but not much in real life. Because in real life someone would leave their hand print on your face.
This isn't real life, go ahead and be an ass, but just know that you've given most of us here the image of a frustrated, spiteful, weak little man.
At this moment I'm not considering any points you make, I'm just laughing at you.
Disconnecting your internet connection when you need to be searching for a job is the most retarded idea I ever heard. It's an enabling resource, as is a phone and an automobile depending on where you live.
When these people...
You're 26 years old and you're so worldly and wise that you get to refer to the down and out as "these people" ? Or is it that you've never been one of them? Do YOU know what it's like to stand in line at a mission? To buy half chicory coffee? Ever live in your car for months at a time? How many times have you had to come to home to people dependent on you and announce you've been laid off? Can you relate to a desire ( the INSTINCT ) to preserve some semblance of normalcy for your family?
I think you lack the needed perspective to be judging these people.
And THIS:
Nothing is more disgusting than watching Best Buy drop off a Plasma screen TV to Government subsidized housing and I know full well they all have the $150/month HDTV Cable plan.
I gotta call you out on this one. Nothing pisses me off more than the never ending made up welfare cadillac anecdotes. That's right, I'm saying you made that shit up, you never saw Best Buy drop off a Plasma TV to a government subsidized home.
If there's a Just God, He'll grant you some experience in these matters.
I spent my junior high and high school years in Germany and Italy and I have to say, the men who work in construction or drive trucks are just as "macho" as you would expect to find in the U.S. As an adult I've traveled _a lot_ and American men generally have a better reputation with women than Europeans in the "respect for women" department. Of course I'm familiar with European men sometimes holding hands. That custom and 'macho' are apples and oranges though.
I fished up in Alaska for about 12 years. There's a lot of tough guys. It's a tough environment, and women that find work as deck hands (not speaking about the ones that go up to cook or do laundry) end up just as tough. People are locked in together like sardines for months. People get frustrated and vent. You quickly learn that you have to earn and _command_ respect if you're going to have any peace. There was a crab boat up there that was captained and crewed by mostly women (girls really). I met a Samoan who had just quit them because he was tired of being pushed around "by a bunch of girls". I hear they were a tough bunch on the job.
Now I work in a cubicle farm. There's no macho to be found anywhere. Actually from a strictly behavioral point of view there's no discernible difference between men and women there. I'd have to qualify that environment though as there's a good mix of Europeans and South Asians there.
Right, but they also had a much richer school environment. They did not have to suffer through this back to basics, three R's crap that started in the 80's. Creative problem solving, critical thinking, you don't get that with a 'stick to the reading writing and math' regimen.
When I grew up in the 70's we were always told the Japanese will never be as innovative as we are, in part, because their schools did not teach kids to think creatively while ours did.
Now, after 25 years of budget cuts and "back to basics" we have to import skilled people because not enough Americans want to be engineers. Am I the only one that looks at that whole picture and thinks "well no shit, look what you did to the schools..."
1)So _take_ you crappy old phising filter and _go_ home.
2)There haven't been any good changes in firefox since gtk. I hold my breath during incremental 2.0.n updates and watch carefully for any sign of ff3 in global updates.
A few years ago firefox could have changed everything. If really wanted everyone to leave flash for svg, they could have pulled that off. Etc.
Alright, put some numbers up. I've seen and heard comments like this for months, and the only numbers I've seen have come from Obama, numbers which contradict your assertion.
Come on, put up some factual data, with citations. You started a thread, back it up with something that can be verified and not some vague accusation like "He's a socialist" or "He said he's going to spread the wealth!"
I don't see this as evidence of bias on the part of reporters, I see it at evidence of the Democratic Primary running as long as it did.
Also, the Republican campaign(s) threw a lot of mud which of course prompted coverage. If Mccain hadn't put Obama in the news so much, he wouldn't have been in the new so much. If the accusations had more merit the resulting coverage wouldn't have been as positive as it was.
"This would have never happened if the government didn't show up and start encouraging lenders to make bad loans,..."
WTH? The Government encouraged lenders to make bad loans? And _you_ call 'Drivel'? Even if you discount my citation based on 'i hate liberal blogs' idealism, at least my assertion can pass a basic human nature/common sense test (Profit Motive anyone?). In what reality is someone motivated to force banks to make these bad loans? No one has anything to gain by that, there's NO motivation, it did not happen.
It wasn't Bush, but it was deregulation and it was Championed by conservatives. The reason why you don't see it mentioned specifically might due to some embarrassment over the bill being signed by Bill Clinton in 1999.
----from wikipedia--- Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which passed the U.S. Senate in one form on a party-line vote of 54 (53 Republicans and 1 Democrat) to 44 (all Democrats) and on a 343-86 vote in a different form in the House of Representatives, before being resolved by a joint conference committee; the conference report was approved by both houses of Congress (Senate: 90-8-1, House: 362-57-15) and signed by President Bill Clinton.[2][3] --------------------
Bullshit. The people making these qualified loans knew full well that they were likely to default, they didn't care because they also knew the loans would be bundled and sold.
NO ONE and NO LAW forced these people to make those loans.
Slashdot Mirror
Look, every defense of java I see is from developers and that defense is ostensibly about developing in java. How about considering how much it sucks for end users and admins who have to manage all this stuff?
Sure, just about every kid that graduated in the last 5 years knows java, I understand why there's so many java developers, but ffs with so many of you you'd think you'd be able to get together, pick one and say THIS is java.
No joke, I've seen devs in the same shop that struggle all day trying to get each others code to run each others workstations.
There's one glibc.
You've responded to an assertion I did not make. Is that because my actual assertion(s) cannot be rebutted? Or do you think people reading this will fail to spot the obvious logical disconnect between your comment and mine?
Sun don't have the capability, and I'm not sure that anyone has, to provide a full and relevant specification that will allow code to be developed that will run on any application server from any vendor.
And that's why end users groan when a good idea gets written in java.
How many flavors of java are there now? Too many I think, even the abstraction layers distros use to manage the mess don't work half the time. It's gotten to the point where if I discover the only existing solution is written in java I just go without.
Really, I don't even try anymore. There may be some great software out there that runs super fast and bug free, but I'll never know, don't want to know.
This "you owe me something, how dare you not satisfy my wishes"
Your on about something else entirely. This has nothing to do any sense of entitlement as you are and were aware before you made that statement. And pretending you know nothing about .0 releases doesn't change reality.
No. It is ALWAYS the speakers responsibility to make himself understood. Thats a law of the universe fact bud. Just move on already.
Second, 'API Stable'? Too late. Defined already. By the rest of the world. You don't get to redefine it with some qualifying sentence later.
Look how many posts here in this thread point out and PROVE that your revisionist history is false. Citations and links even. Bad decisions were made, but enough time has passed that it's only still being talked about because you and others can't give trying to change the past.
No. It is ALWAYS the speakers responsibility to make himself understood. Thats a law of the universe fact bud. Just move on already.
Second, 'API Stable'? Too late. Defined already. By the rest of the world. You don't get to redefine it with some qualifying sentence later.
No one read that sentence stop repeating it.
People read '4.0'. The people who made the decision to call it knew damn well what they were communicating to the public by calling it 4.0.
I haven't actually used any version of kde4 yet so I don't know or care how bad 4.0 was. But I do that if I don't understand what you're saying, it's YOUR FAULT. EVERY TIME. If you want to be understood it is your responsibility to make yourself understood. There is no onus on me to understand what you write or what comes out of your mouth.
Hey.
It is the SPEAKERS responsibility to make sure he is understood. It is NOT the listeners responsibility to understand.
Calling an application -.0 MEANS something. The KDE devs who made that decision were very much aware of what they were communicating when they made that decision. The miscommunication is 100% their fault.
In my opinion no one in the universe is more an "authority" on usability than any other person in the universe. I think this Usability Expert idea is bs and the subject is 100% subjective.
What you're calling a 'kit' I call 'unnecessary layers of abstraction' whether it's an application or yet another layer of management in an organization. From my perspective the number of software developers and executives that think another layer of abstraction is just the ticket has been growing exponentially for about a decade.
I blame books like this, and I blame java.
Look how you're talking to people, you see that in online forums, but not much in real life. Because in real life someone would leave their hand print on your face.
This isn't real life, go ahead and be an ass, but just know that you've given most of us here the image of a frustrated, spiteful, weak little man.
At this moment I'm not considering any points you make, I'm just laughing at you.
Your own fault btw.
Disconnecting your internet connection when you need to be searching for a job is the most retarded idea I ever heard. It's an enabling resource, as is a phone and an automobile depending on where you live.
When these people... You're 26 years old and you're so worldly and wise that you get to refer to the down and out as "these people" ? Or is it that you've never been one of them? Do YOU know what it's like to stand in line at a mission? To buy half chicory coffee? Ever live in your car for months at a time? How many times have you had to come to home to people dependent on you and announce you've been laid off? Can you relate to a desire ( the INSTINCT ) to preserve some semblance of normalcy for your family?
I think you lack the needed perspective to be judging these people.
And THIS: Nothing is more disgusting than watching Best Buy drop off a Plasma screen TV to Government subsidized housing and I know full well they all have the $150/month HDTV Cable plan.
I gotta call you out on this one. Nothing pisses me off more than the never ending made up welfare cadillac anecdotes. That's right, I'm saying you made that shit up, you never saw Best Buy drop off a Plasma TV to a government subsidized home.
If there's a Just God, He'll grant you some experience in these matters.
Move processors around so you get a different boot proc, if you haven't tried that already.
Some personal contradictory observations,
I spent my junior high and high school years in Germany and Italy and I have to say, the men who work in construction or drive trucks are just as "macho" as you would expect to find in the U.S. As an adult I've traveled _a lot_ and American men generally have a better reputation with women than Europeans in the "respect for women" department. Of course I'm familiar with European men sometimes holding hands. That custom and 'macho' are apples and oranges though.
I fished up in Alaska for about 12 years. There's a lot of tough guys. It's a tough environment, and women that find work as deck hands (not speaking about the ones that go up to cook or do laundry) end up just as tough. People are locked in together like sardines for months. People get frustrated and vent. You quickly learn that you have to earn and _command_ respect if you're going to have any peace. There was a crab boat up there that was captained and crewed by mostly women (girls really). I met a Samoan who had just quit them because he was tired of being pushed around "by a bunch of girls". I hear they were a tough bunch on the job.
Now I work in a cubicle farm. There's no macho to be found anywhere. Actually from a strictly behavioral point of view there's no discernible difference between men and women there. I'd have to qualify that environment though as there's a good mix of Europeans and South Asians there.
Right, but they also had a much richer school environment. They did not have to suffer through this back to basics, three R's crap that started in the 80's. Creative problem solving, critical thinking, you don't get that with a 'stick to the reading writing and math' regimen.
When I grew up in the 70's we were always told the Japanese will never be as innovative as we are, in part, because their schools did not teach kids to think creatively while ours did.
Now, after 25 years of budget cuts and "back to basics" we have to import skilled people because not enough Americans want to be engineers. Am I the only one that looks at that whole picture and thinks "well no shit, look what you did to the schools..."
Mod that man up!
1)So _take_ you crappy old phising filter and _go_ home.
2)There haven't been any good changes in firefox since gtk. I hold my breath during incremental 2.0.n updates and watch carefully for any sign of ff3 in global updates.
A few years ago firefox could have changed everything. If really wanted everyone to leave flash for svg, they could have pulled that off. Etc.
I'm going to konqueror or opera.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html
I'm waiting longer before hitting submit.
Alright, put some numbers up. I've seen and heard comments like this for months, and the only numbers I've seen have come from Obama, numbers which contradict your assertion.
Come on, put up some factual data, with citations. You started a thread, back it up with something that can be verified and not some vague accusation like "He's a socialist" or "He said he's going to spread the wealth!"
I don't see this as evidence of bias on the part of reporters, I see it at evidence of the Democratic Primary running as long as it did.
Also, the Republican campaign(s) threw a lot of mud which of course prompted coverage. If Mccain hadn't put Obama in the news so much, he wouldn't have been in the new so much. If the accusations had more merit the resulting coverage wouldn't have been as positive as it was.
got a link? not being sarcastic, genuinely curious as it seems you have some details I don't.
"This would have never happened if the government didn't show up and start encouraging lenders to make bad loans,..."
WTH? The Government encouraged lenders to make bad loans? And _you_ call 'Drivel'? Even if you discount my citation based on 'i hate liberal blogs' idealism, at least my assertion can pass a basic human nature/common sense test (Profit Motive anyone?). In what reality is someone motivated to force banks to make these bad loans? No one has anything to gain by that, there's NO motivation, it did not happen.
Got a citation? Any proof at all? No you don't.
It wasn't Bush, but it was deregulation and it was Championed by conservatives. The reason why you don't see it mentioned specifically might due to some embarrassment over the bill being signed by Bill Clinton in 1999.
----from wikipedia---
Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which passed the U.S. Senate in one form on a party-line vote of 54 (53 Republicans and 1 Democrat) to 44 (all Democrats) and on a 343-86 vote in a different form in the House of Representatives, before being resolved by a joint conference committee; the conference report was approved by both houses of Congress (Senate: 90-8-1, House: 362-57-15) and signed by President Bill Clinton.[2][3]
--------------------
And here is a thoughtful perspective on re-regulation from people you probably hate:
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisistheaflcio/ecouncil/ec03052008a.cfm
Bullshit. The people making these qualified loans knew full well that they were likely to default, they didn't care because they also knew the loans would be bundled and sold.
NO ONE and NO LAW forced these people to make those loans.