I'm an idiot
on
Halloween VII
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· Score: 3, Insightful
To the extent that anyone draws a conclusion from this document like "we've got Microsoft on the run", that's just idiotic.
Why, exactly? If genuine (and I expect it probably is, since I can't see any benefit to Microsoft of leaking this), this document highlights what many of us already thought - Microsoft is having a tough time coming up with an effective response to Linux and OSS.
The strategies it suggests (making more noise about Shared Source, trying to win the TCO argument) aren't really hard hitting, but then, what else can MS do? People suggest that it will start using patents and IP law to get heavy with OSS projects, but I doubt it - it's too important for them to improve their image and stop being peceived as the bad guy, because that is why many people are considering OSS and Linux in the first place.
It suggests we're got Microsoft on the run to me, it basically says they recognise Linux/OSS as a strong competitor, and most of their weapons are blunt.
I've got some information for Bill Gates and Steve Ballamer that could help them save money. If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, can you please pass the information on?
You can get some really great deals on international flights by booking a "round the world" ticket. With these tickets you can stop off at a large number of different destinations on a trip around the world and pay a single low price. A friend of mine paid about $2000 to stop at 40 different destinations on five continents!
1) US courts regularly deny the authority of courts abroad
2) US courts regularly assume their rules apply abroad.
This stuff doesn't really matter but the EU is dealing with trade within the EU zone. So it doesn't really matter that much what the US thinks. And don't assume that the US can just do whatever it wants and get away with it. There's something called the WTO, which has ruled heavily against the US and in favour of the EU recently with regards to steel tarrifs. It's true that the US is a big bully, but the EU is growing and seems increasingly confident fighting back.
Could someone explain what the EU has power to do?
The EU can fine Microsoft upto I believe 10% of its global revenue, so it is a very big deal indeed.
Don't underestimate them. They have shown there teeth on several occasions recently and seem less frightened to use their powers than the authorities in the USA have shown. It's not so easy for corporations to engage in "lobbying" to get their own way in the EU as it is in the USA.
Re:PDF Files arn't easily modifiable.
on
Microsoft takes on PDF
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· Score: 5, Insightful
Let me just see if I understand Slashdot's position on all of this: [..] Now Microsoft want to use XML too... but that's also bad
It's simple. The people who post to Slashdot generally don't trust Microsoft. And they've good reason not to. Even when they say they are using a particular format, they deliberately do stuff to make it incompatible with anything that isn't from Microsoft.
Try this simple test. Open a document in Microsoft Word 2000. Save as HTML. Look at the HTML. You will find yourself looking at something that is unlike any other HTML you'll ever come across.
So when Microsoft say that XDocs is in XML format, it doesn't really mean it will be in XML format, just something they themselves call XML format.
Microsoft hasn't done anything recently that has convinced me that I can trust what they say. So I don't. The mistrust runs so deep that I, and I expect may other people who post on Slashdot, will be absolutely amazed if we open an XDoc and see something like this:
<title style="heading1">This is a title</title>
rather than (and this is a small extract from a very simple document in Word 2000 saved as "html"):
Of course we have the example of UK to show it is possible to transition from a welfare state to a free market.
That's right. As a UK citizen I am proud of how the UK has lead the way with privitizing its public services. It's made the UK a much better place to live! What with the expensive public transport system that fails to run on time and a health service that is now one of the worst in Europe. And what joy it brought when The Post Office spent vast sums renaming itself "Consignia" to be more commercial, and then reverting back to "The Post Office". How jealous the rest of Europe must be!
Whitin a Union (speccially the Comission) that spends milions with employes (read friends of politicians) and translators that don't do nothing (litteraly) >> spending ï½ 250 thousand is just a joke to shut up many of the European free software advocates.
Is a migration to Linux going to mean lower cost of government operation and lower taxes? Or is the money that they save just going to go to some other bloated government program?
Just because your own government isn't very good doesn't mean that governments the world over are crappy.
There is less lobbying in the EU (though loads of corruption)
That's right. There's much more corruption in the EU than the USA. That's because the EU doesn't have lots of sensible mechanisms in place to prevent giant corporations and friends of those in power from influencing policy in the way the USA does.
As much as I hate M$ this will eventually impact American jobs and world dominance right?
That's right. I suggest the best approach for America is to try to stifle Open Source and other such innovations. After all, stifling innovations is what made America great.
One of the differences for us that caused the divorce was that I was a big Windows user
Is this a joke? If not, man you really need to get your life sorted out. Disagreement over choice of operating systems is not a sensible reason for divorce...
And the guy who took it from the shoe did steal it. It is called "conversion" and the owner is entitled to sue to recover the property.
Technically you are correct, the legal term for this is "conversion". And the legal term for people who don't secure their valuable property is "dumbass".
Not really. If it was published, with a hyperlink, or 'obvious' URL, then yes. But as this was in an obscure location on the site with no obvious link to it, then it wasn't really being advertised as available.
In other words, it was in an old shoe in a hedge in a garden open to the public...
Hopefully this analogy is now exhausted and wants to go to bed.
If you kept it in a hedge in your garden (i.e., on your property as this report was), and someone took it, they would still technically be guilty of theft.
Except (to streach the anology to its limits), a public web server is like putting a sign on your garden gate saying "Open to the public".
I could see a moldy old judge siding with them, saying that using "www.intentia.com/~a2eslcf/info/docs/hidden883/fin ancial reports.html" for example would constitute an attempt at placing some level of security on the data for the time being, almost a password....
Dumbass:But your honor, that man has stolen a hundred dollars from me! I think I made a reasonable attempt to hide it by keeping it in an old shoe in a hedge at the local park. Who would think to look there?...what do you mean I'm a dumbass?
Contrary to popular american beliefs, Europe is NOT pro-Iraq, we're just not as keen on resorting to force nowadays since we saw the result of it at home.
Hey guys, just to make the argument clearer could you please make a distinction between Saddam and his cronies and the people/country of Iraq. I'm sure many Europeans (and hopefully Americans) would consider themselves pro-Iraq if we are talking about the country and people, but anti-Iraq if we are talking about Saddam and his cronies.
Hmm, let's see, people on rollerblades in skintight suits vs. CowboyNeal-esque folks waddling down the street? I don't think so.
Ah, but you're not taking into account that the penguins would fight with different strategies to the butterflies.
The butterflies would all work together and would fight in exactly the same way. But some of the penguins would stand at the top of flights of stairs and throw things. Others would spread pointy gravel on the ground then give the butterflies a good kicking when they fall over. Pairs of penguins would waddle together holding ropes close to the ground and making the butterflies smash face first into the pavement. Then give them a good kicking. It would be great.
30-40 guys and gals in butterfly suits colored in the Microsoft colors, and carrying MSN banners just rollerbladed by, screaming at the top of their lungs down the middle of Broadway.
I would love to see an equivalent number of guys in penguin suits go beat them up. I'd pay good money to see that.
They want open-source to get them rich, right? Less initial cost by the company, etc etc. What are the odds they'll profit-share with people they're getting rich off of? (well, ok, attempting)
Hey, you're giving free content to Slashdot by posting here! OSDN are getting rich off you, and they're not profit-sharing! You'd better stop posting to Slashdot!!
What if we had an election, via the net, and voted for a Head Penguin?!
I don't think that would be the best way. For it to work the Head Desktop Penguin would need a) to be known to most people in the desktop field b) to be impartial and fair, and c) to be respected. I think the best way would be for the desktop gurus from all the major distributions to discuss it together, and then choose someone from amongst them who would hopefully agree to being Head Desktop Penguin.
Give the Head Penguin a term of say, two years...
I think that due to the nature of the position, the term would be until the Penguin got bored/over-stressed, or given a vote of no confidence by the community.
We already have a good model of how this might function with the Linux kernal. Unfortunately I don't think it is going to happen for the desktop space, which is a shame.
Well, it depends what you want. If you are happy with Linux having less than 1% of the desktop market, then fine. But there are many people like myself who believe that the world would be a better place if OSS software were much more widely used. And that means the desktop. So, yes, at least from my perspective, Microsoft is the enemy, or if you'd prefer, the competition.
And no, Sun, the BSDs and Apple are not really the competition because they don't own 95% of the marketplace.
Plus, cooperation between Linux distros is somewhat implicit.
Except it doesn't seem to be happening that way. If you look at the kernel, there is a great deal of uniformity between distributions basically because there is a single, widely accepted head-penguin who is doing an excellent job (Linus). I'm sure that there are very few people who would argue that it would be great if we had dozens of incompatible kernals. The desktop space however doesn't have a head-penguin and it really shows.
It's possible to have a high level of co-ordination and co-operation as well as freedom and choice.
It's fantastic that there is so much happening in the Linux desktop area at the moment. But a plea to you guys -- can we have some co-ordination and co-operation please? Everyone seems to be doing their own thing in many areas. Remember, your competitioin is Microsoft, they have 95% of the desktop market (or there abouts). You should be teaming together to fight them, not amongst each other.
The OSS community can make a desktop that is better than XP. In fact, all of the bits of the puzzle are already there, it's just that they are in different distributions! (Xandros, SUSE, RedHat, Lindows, Debian...)
When Linux has a reasonable foothold in the desktop market, then go ahead, fight away. But until that day, please share and co-operate. For motivation, imagine Bill Gates giggling to himself and muttering "what a bunch of losers". Works for me.
Slashdot Mirror
To the extent that anyone draws a conclusion from this document like "we've got Microsoft on the run", that's just idiotic.
Why, exactly? If genuine (and I expect it probably is, since I can't see any benefit to Microsoft of leaking this), this document highlights what many of us already thought - Microsoft is having a tough time coming up with an effective response to Linux and OSS.
The strategies it suggests (making more noise about Shared Source, trying to win the TCO argument) aren't really hard hitting, but then, what else can MS do? People suggest that it will start using patents and IP law to get heavy with OSS projects, but I doubt it - it's too important for them to improve their image and stop being peceived as the bad guy, because that is why many people are considering OSS and Linux in the first place.
It suggests we're got Microsoft on the run to me, it basically says they recognise Linux/OSS as a strong competitor, and most of their weapons are blunt.
I've got some information for Bill Gates and Steve Ballamer that could help them save money. If anyone from Microsoft is reading this, can you please pass the information on?
You can get some really great deals on international flights by booking a "round the world" ticket. With these tickets you can stop off at a large number of different destinations on a trip around the world and pay a single low price. A friend of mine paid about $2000 to stop at 40 different destinations on five continents!
I hope this helps.
The EU beaurocracy is not exactly known for being speed
2001 Simultaneously introduce new currency across 11 countries
2004 Expand union to include another 10 countries
Yep, they sure look like slow movers to me.
1) US courts regularly deny the authority of courts abroad
2) US courts regularly assume their rules apply abroad.
This stuff doesn't really matter but the EU is dealing with trade within the EU zone. So it doesn't really matter that much what the US thinks. And don't assume that the US can just do whatever it wants and get away with it. There's something called the WTO, which has ruled heavily against the US and in favour of the EU recently with regards to steel tarrifs. It's true that the US is a big bully, but the EU is growing and seems increasingly confident fighting back.
Could someone explain what the EU has power to do?
The EU can fine Microsoft upto I believe 10% of its global revenue, so it is a very big deal indeed.
Don't underestimate them. They have shown there teeth on several occasions recently and seem less frightened to use their powers than the authorities in the USA have shown. It's not so easy for corporations to engage in "lobbying" to get their own way in the EU as it is in the USA.
[..]
Now Microsoft want to use XML too... but that's also bad
It's simple. The people who post to Slashdot generally don't trust Microsoft. And they've good reason not to. Even when they say they are using a particular format, they deliberately do stuff to make it incompatible with anything that isn't from Microsoft.
Try this simple test. Open a document in Microsoft Word 2000. Save as HTML. Look at the HTML. You will find yourself looking at something that is unlike any other HTML you'll ever come across.
So when Microsoft say that XDocs is in XML format, it doesn't really mean it will be in XML format, just something they themselves call XML format.
Microsoft hasn't done anything recently that has convinced me that I can trust what they say. So I don't. The mistrust runs so deep that I, and I expect may other people who post on Slashdot, will be absolutely amazed if we open an XDoc and see something like this:rather than (and this is a small extract from a very simple document in Word 2000 saved as "html"):
Of course we have the example of UK to show it is possible to transition from a welfare state to a free market.
That's right. As a UK citizen I am proud of how the UK has lead the way with privitizing its public services. It's made the UK a much better place to live! What with the expensive public transport system that fails to run on time and a health service that is now one of the worst in Europe. And what joy it brought when The Post Office spent vast sums renaming itself "Consignia" to be more commercial, and then reverting back to "The Post Office". How jealous the rest of Europe must be!
Whitin a Union (speccially the Comission) that spends milions with employes (read friends of politicians) and translators that don't do nothing (litteraly) >> spending ï½ 250 thousand is just a joke to shut up many of the European free software advocates.
Would this be an informed opinion..?
Is a migration to Linux going to mean lower cost of government operation and lower taxes? Or is the money that they save just going to go to some other bloated government program?
Just because your own government isn't very good doesn't mean that governments the world over are crappy.
There is less lobbying in the EU (though loads of corruption)
That's right. There's much more corruption in the EU than the USA. That's because the EU doesn't have lots of sensible mechanisms in place to prevent giant corporations and friends of those in power from influencing policy in the way the USA does.
(Yes, more sarcasm!)
As much as I hate M$ this will eventually impact American jobs and world dominance right?
That's right. I suggest the best approach for America is to try to stifle Open Source and other such innovations. After all, stifling innovations is what made America great.
(Sarcasm!)
One of the differences for us that caused the divorce was that I was a big Windows user
Is this a joke? If not, man you really need to get your life sorted out. Disagreement over choice of operating systems is not a sensible reason for divorce...
And the guy who took it from the shoe did steal it. It is called "conversion" and the owner is entitled to sue to recover the property.
Technically you are correct, the legal term for this is "conversion". And the legal term for people who don't secure their valuable property is "dumbass".
Not really. If it was published, with a hyperlink, or 'obvious' URL, then yes. But as this was in an obscure location on the site with no obvious link to it, then it wasn't really being advertised as available.
In other words, it was in an old shoe in a hedge in a garden open to the public...
Hopefully this analogy is now exhausted and wants to go to bed.
If you kept it in a hedge in your garden (i.e., on your property as this report was), and someone took it, they would still technically be guilty of theft.
Except (to streach the anology to its limits), a public web server is like putting a sign on your garden gate saying "Open to the public".
I could see a moldy old judge siding with them, saying that using "www.intentia.com/~a2eslcf/info/docs/hidden883/fin ancial reports.html" for example would constitute an attempt at placing some level of security on the data for the time being, almost a password....
...what do you mean I'm a dumbass?
Dumbass:But your honor, that man has stolen a hundred dollars from me! I think I made a reasonable attempt to hide it by keeping it in an old shoe in a hedge at the local park. Who would think to look there?
Contrary to popular american beliefs, Europe is NOT pro-Iraq, we're just not as keen on resorting to force nowadays since we saw the result of it at home.
Hey guys, just to make the argument clearer could you please make a distinction between Saddam and his cronies and the people/country of Iraq. I'm sure many Europeans (and hopefully Americans) would consider themselves pro-Iraq if we are talking about the country and people, but anti-Iraq if we are talking about Saddam and his cronies.
Hmm, let's see, people on rollerblades in skintight suits vs. CowboyNeal-esque folks waddling down the street? I don't think so.
Ah, but you're not taking into account that the penguins would fight with different strategies to the butterflies.
The butterflies would all work together and would fight in exactly the same way. But some of the penguins would stand at the top of flights of stairs and throw things. Others would spread pointy gravel on the ground then give the butterflies a good kicking when they fall over. Pairs of penguins would waddle together holding ropes close to the ground and making the butterflies smash face first into the pavement. Then give them a good kicking. It would be great.
30-40 guys and gals in butterfly suits colored in the Microsoft colors, and carrying MSN banners just rollerbladed by, screaming at the top of their lungs down the middle of Broadway.
I would love to see an equivalent number of guys in penguin suits go beat them up. I'd pay good money to see that.
They want open-source to get them rich, right? Less initial cost by the company, etc etc. What are the odds they'll profit-share with people they're getting rich off of? (well, ok, attempting)
Hey, you're giving free content to Slashdot by posting here! OSDN are getting rich off you, and they're not profit-sharing! You'd better stop posting to Slashdot!!
And the .5 party, the Liberal Democrats.
.5 party, not the Liberal demoncrats!
I think some people might argue that nowadays it is the Conservatives that are the
What if we had an election, via the net, and voted for a Head Penguin?!
I don't think that would be the best way. For it to work the Head Desktop Penguin would need a) to be known to most people in the desktop field b) to be impartial and fair, and c) to be respected. I think the best way would be for the desktop gurus from all the major distributions to discuss it together, and then choose someone from amongst them who would hopefully agree to being Head Desktop Penguin.
Give the Head Penguin a term of say, two years...
I think that due to the nature of the position, the term would be until the Penguin got bored/over-stressed, or given a vote of no confidence by the community.
We already have a good model of how this might function with the Linux kernal. Unfortunately I don't think it is going to happen for the desktop space, which is a shame.
Is Microsoft really the "enemy"?
Well, it depends what you want. If you are happy with Linux having less than 1% of the desktop market, then fine. But there are many people like myself who believe that the world would be a better place if OSS software were much more widely used. And that means the desktop. So, yes, at least from my perspective, Microsoft is the enemy, or if you'd prefer, the competition.
And no, Sun, the BSDs and Apple are not really the competition because they don't own 95% of the marketplace.
Plus, cooperation between Linux distros is somewhat implicit.
Except it doesn't seem to be happening that way. If you look at the kernel, there is a great deal of uniformity between distributions basically because there is a single, widely accepted head-penguin who is doing an excellent job (Linus). I'm sure that there are very few people who would argue that it would be great if we had dozens of incompatible kernals. The desktop space however doesn't have a head-penguin and it really shows.
It's possible to have a high level of co-ordination and co-operation as well as freedom and choice.
It's fantastic that there is so much happening in the Linux desktop area at the moment. But a plea to you guys -- can we have some co-ordination and co-operation please? Everyone seems to be doing their own thing in many areas. Remember, your competitioin is Microsoft, they have 95% of the desktop market (or there abouts). You should be teaming together to fight them, not amongst each other.
The OSS community can make a desktop that is better than XP. In fact, all of the bits of the puzzle are already there, it's just that they are in different distributions! (Xandros, SUSE, RedHat, Lindows, Debian...)
When Linux has a reasonable foothold in the desktop market, then go ahead, fight away. But until that day, please share and co-operate. For motivation, imagine Bill Gates giggling to himself and muttering "what a bunch of losers". Works for me.
This may interest you:
http://www.1dok.org/eng/index.html