Your Apple based computer is not superior to a PC for use on the internet.
Your logic assumes that one with a Windows PC uses Microsoft's security swiss-cheese Internet Explorer and Outlook/Outlook Express.
My computer, using Thunderbird and Firefox, has never once fallen victim to any sort of worm/virus/spyware. Comparing the lowest end Apple and PC products capable of getting on the internet to send/receive email and browse web pages, a computer from the Apple camp, the eMac, starts at $799 and goes up depending on how you want it 'customized' (such as it is for that line from Apple).
A similar machine, in this case - A Dell, starts at $499 with a 17" CRT (10% off sale right now, normal price is $549).
Both are capable of getting onto the internet via modem or (insert high-speed access type here). I decided to add a DVD+RW (8x) and a 1 year warranty/1 year at home warranty/1 year tech support, and MyDVD Delux to go with the DVD burner and the machine was *still* cheaper than the emac. FAR cheaper than the iMac (which starts at $1299!). Plus, the eMac only has a 40gb drive whereas the Dell has an 80 (Currently a free upgrade - normally has a 40gb). Adding a 160gb drive takes my price to $717 wich is STILL cheaper than a base model eMac.
I can go on. The Apple is *not* superior for the reasons you suggest so long as both are using decent software (read: Not IE and Outlook/Outlook Express).
If I had a choice between the hardware the Apple camp uses and the PC camp, I couldn't say wich I would choose. The Apple hardware certinaly does have some nice specs, however, everything I want to do with a computer is available in the "PC" camp. The same cannot be said for Apple. I am only one in a group of MILLIONS of people. I'm also not saying that the Apple line of products are crap, either. The whole purpose of this post was to dispell your belief that the Apple is superior because your computer hasn't gotten a virus/worm/spyware/whatever.
Take your soap box and go home, little boy. Your FUD isn't welcome here. Oh.. Have a nice day.:)
I don't know how someone would even go about making something like that. (Then again, I have no creative talent whatsoever, so I have no idea how artists go about making anything:)
The orange 'shadow' is just the pumpkin skin. The person had carved out the inside of the pumpkin and left the skin behind.
Probalby took quite abit of work, but it did look awesom..
Ok.. how about this service? I haven't had their service in over 2 years now, and having visited their web page, looks like they have moved on quite nicely. A visit to the newsgroup may provide better information. Back when I had the service, the web page was all smiles and kisses, and the newsgroups (both the official one that only customers could access and the unofficial one) were full of piss and venom.
Still an alternative to DirecWay and their FAP..
As a side note, I have only two service options available for me in the tiny town I reside:
Marktwain.net
Using Airspan equipment in the home. I get a static IP and 256k/128k for $44.99 a month, no port blocking whatsoever. I just have it on a Linksys router and can share to however many PC's I want (of course, the more PC's, the worse the speeds).
Missvaley.net
I don't know their equipment. You are FORCED behind a firewall at the ISP end. NO ports can reach you. You are REQUIRED to have a PCI wireless device (they provide) put into ONE PC. No sharing unless you use ICS (or it's equivelent). 384k-1.5mb/128k for $39.99.
I went with Marktwain.net's service so I could run my own mail/web server (and use the machine for learning how to setup other services). Wish I had better available, but I don't. =[
My god thats *TERRIBLE*, you're supposed to pay 1$ a month for music trickled to you at 8k/s?
No, we pay $9.99 a month to get our service. Less if we buy yearly or multi-yearly subscriptions.
Despite what others have said, I think the music channels sound awesome. I wouldn't say they are significantly better than an FM radio station, but they do sound good. I think those that are hearing 'degraded sound quality' probably have played it so loud that they are actually loosing their hearing. =]
I wouldn't know anything about taking the phone off the hook so I could use my computer. I ran OS/2 with 2 dial-in lines and a telnet line. I was still able to type/print my homework, get on the BBS on my own local node, play the games that were available, etc.
Only time I had to take the phone off the hook was when I was upgrading the PC (wich I did quite frequently back in the day).
I had somewhere around 150 active users (and many more in the database). I wanted to buy a car (I was about 18 at the time) and couldn't afford the car payment and the BBS, so I asked for a buck from everyone. Even if only half of the people donated, it would have kept the board alive, but alas, only two people sent anything in. A month later I took it down and sent the money back. By that time, the local ISP's and AOL were aggressivly advertising and getting people online and (ultimately) way from BBSs. =[
Let me ask still another question: "Ever wonder why people download Firefox now, despite IE *still* being bundled?"
You are such a fool, if you think that. People download it (and many MANY other things, illegal or otherwise) because 'broadband' is much more widely available compared to the time period I had been discussing.
Those OEMs didn't have to agree to the terms of the contracts they signed with MS. They *could* have sacrificed the price breaks MS gave them on Windows in favor of bundling all the great software you say was made by MS competitors. But they didn't do that. In the end, the "guilt" (I don't even like to call it that) lies with the OEMs moreso than Microsoft. Since those OEMs were dealing with the customers directly, one must assume that they thought the customers liked (i.e. would be more willing to purchase) cheaper computers with Windows preinstalled but no netscape more than they would have liked expensive computers with Netscape installed.
Sure they didn't need to, and for the reason you mentioned. However, it would have been stupid for them to NOT do so. They would have just gone out of business due to lack of sales and we would be right where we are today. Yes, the OEM's should have refused. If enough of them had the balls to do so, MS could not have gotten away with what they did. After the OEM's stopped putting Netscape and other office suites (for the longest time, IBM had Lotus SmartSuite and NS pre-installed), I had many customers ask me why. Now, why would they ask unless they had wanted that software?
Your arguements just don't hold up. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You can't cite anything that backs you up (meanwhile, there are a plethora of links I could provide with a few minutes of googling that woudl hold up my end). This has turned into an arguement of the sort I have at work with two of the idiots I work with. They make all sorts of claims, yet have nothing to show to back them up. You might as well not even respond to this as I'll never read it. This has gone on long enough and your toll is done here and now.
Okay, first of all, IE 3 was briefly bundled with the OS too. And what did people use? NETSCAPE! Horrah! I know I did, because IE3 was terrible. And then when I got to use IE4 alongside netscape, I realized, "Hey, this thing isn't a ridiculous slow resource hog! How 'bout that." and So that's what I used. Netscape was never great, and IE4 was when MS over took them.
IE3 was bundled with the OS starting with one of the Win95 OSR releases (2, or 2.5? I forget wich.) IE3 wasn't any more terrible than the current version of Netscape was. No matter how rosey-colored your glasses are, it won't change the fact that Microsoft *dissallowed* OEM's from bundling Netscape on their computers. Ever wonder why you didn't see Netscape or anything else on a new computer? Yup. That was Microsofts anti-competitive actions that did that. IE4 was when MS over took Netscape because it was strapped into Win98. When '98 came out, people upgraded/bought new PC's and there is where it started. It was never because IE was any better than Netscape. To state otherwise is obsurd.
And you're right, wtf would people on a 14.4 modem bother to download Netscape 4.whatever when IE4, which they already had (and was given out free in order to compete with free netscape, btw), was better anyway! Curse those handsome microsoft devils for making things *too* convenient!
If, as I stated previously, MS had allowed other browsers to be pre-installed by OEM's, I think things would be very different today. Damn MS's Handsome Devils for stopping competition for the furtherance of their own goals in-spite of their customers!
On to Apple accesseries. I rag on them because they aren't the end-all, be-all that you, and many other Apple-heads make them out to be. In your message, you had used it as a Plus to owning your Apple, not even acknowledging that the accessory you were speaking of was not exclusive to the Apple platform.
How much ram are we talking about? 512mb isn't enough to play smooth audio? Oh wait, yes it is, if you use winamp or wmp.
Are you high? I built a computer to replace my mothers crappy Gateway PC that only has 256MB RAM, and iTunes runs on it just fine. 'Course, the only reason iTunes is on it was because she had all these free song caps from Pepsi... but it still ran just fine.
If you had a problem with a PC and iTunes, then it was a problem with the PC you were using...
My Powerbook running itunes, quicktime, and Firefox disagrees with you.
Apple's measly 2%-5% market share disagrees with you. What is funny is that Apple has made it's own problem by cutting off the clone makers. I'd look at apple as a viable 'choice' if they hadn't done that. The hardware was good, the prices were getting more in-line with PC prices for the time, etc. Apple just couldn't stand that. They couldn't be content with being the MS of the PowerPC hardware. Stupid move, in my eyes. Yea, they are still around, but they will never be the large company that they could have been.
Not to mention that *any* Apple desktop computer I'd want to buy is exactly twice as expensive (if not mroe-so) than, say for example, a Dell desktop of comparable specs.
That's like having a choice between a decent car for about $30k or a luxury car for $60k or higher, and that is IT. Sure, there might be a few cars you can get for free, but you need to piece the thing together from parts you find all over the globe, but it's there!
So, why doesn't opera make a popular operating system? Why don't they release "Opera Linux" and bundle it there?
They should not need to do such a thing. It has been well documented, through the various court cases, that MS really only 'gave away' their browser to steal the share from the Netscape camp.
Now that the competitors have been screwed over, they can't just 'give away for free' back to MS to steal their share. Markets don't work that way.
The only reason the stuff that 'came bundled with windows' is "good enough" is because people aren't being educated that there are better products available. See my previous post to one of your own comments about this, and what I am personally doing about it. Keep in mind, however, that I am only one man. There is no way that I am going to have the time to get to enough people to change the world, as it were. People like you don't make things any eaiser. "Oh, forget all the others. They can't possibly be as good as what MS has - just drink some more of this Kool-Aid. Ooorr. I have this shiney new (insert Apple computer product here)!. Why don't you drop your perfectly good PC and spend a grand or more on this!".
Also - for more of a reason why MS was wrong for bundling, see the court cases. In most (if not all cases), they actually prevented the OEM's from bundling other companies software with the PC under threats of pulling the OEM agreements, or making them significantly more expensive! How is that NOT anti-competitive?
All I can say is that, after having read through your comments, you are full of shit. I would not be suprised if your eyes are brown...
Having re-read your post, I have another comment to elaborate on...
And I quoth:
And if it's so super wicked bad cool, advertise and tell people. I also said I've never seen Opera on a store shelf. How is that Microsoft's fault?
I think forcing OEM's to bundle IE and NOTIHNG ELSE (again, court documented) onto the computers had something to do with this.
Seems to me that advertising takes money. How are you supposed to generate that when MS won't allow large OEM's to bundle even a free version/time limited version of your product with the OEM's PC if the OEM wants to? As for store shelv's. Same problem. You can't purchase the needed components to get your software into a pretty box when MS has undercut your ability to advertise and get your product out.
Why should MS be allowed to say what can and cannot be installed by an OEM? Oh, that's right. There are laws against it. Something about being anti-competitive, or something like that... Microsoft has poisoned the well already. I am waking people up to that fact every day, but like I said. I'm only one person.
MS is not hurting consumer choice.
This comment from you is what proved to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are in fact a troll, and deserve to be moderated as such. There is court case after court case that proves you wrong. There are even numerous Class Action suits you can look up. (I'll leave you to your 'cuperior' ibook/powerbook/whatever you have to look those cases up yourself. You don't even need to leave Slashdot to do so)
In short, you don't get antitrust case after antitrust case (and, for that matter, class action after class action) if you aren't hurting your customers.
Well, that sentence alone makes me think you are a troll, but I'll respond anyway. I did run BeOS, for about 3 days, until I realized that it blew. A friend of mine had it on his mac and liked it, but always said the PC version sucked balls. I could never figure out the difference, but rest assured, Windows was better. And that is so depressing I think I'm gonna cry...
BeOS was very good. Booted very quickly, and while it was running, it crashed no more (and I'd say a bit less, actually) than Windows or Linux on the same PC. The problem Be had was getting applications to be built for it. Hmm. Wonder why that was. Probably "Well, the Windows apps are already there - lets not waste any of our time/money on something that could be much better when we already have this" attitudes.
Speaking of BeOS, ever hear what happened to OS/2? Yea, IBM is *partially* to blame for this one, but Microsoft certianly didn't help anything with it's tactics.
Well let's look at office suites. MS didn't have a monopoly on office suites. Corel used to make one (do they still? I haven't used it since it sucked so bad it made me puke.) What else was there? It's hard to blame Office's success on exploiting a monopoly when historically you had just one competitor, and that competitor sucked.
Well, Corel's office suite wasn't the ONLY other competitor. Lotus had it's SmartSuite available. Don't know if it still is or not, but it was there (I had two versions of it. SmartSuite '97 and another one.. I can't remember how it was labled.. had something to do with 2000. )
I'm sure there were others, however, the Lotus, MS, and Corel suites were the only ones I had really ever dealth with. I'd say the reason that many (bordering on most) people chose the MS suite was because it had Microsoft's name on it. In their minds, because it was from Microsoft, for it's Windows OS, it must have somehow been more reliable/better. Even though it was more expensive, they still chose it.
We already discussed media players, what about web browsers? Which one did everyone start off with? Netscape. In fact, if you had a memory that reached back more than 5 years you'd remember when everyone was cheering how microsoft missed the Internet boat. "HA HA, netscape and AOL have pwned MS!! They're stuck with that old cd-rom multimedia mantra! It's the web that's the future baby! They're done for!" That is, until ms came out with IE 4, and it blew netscape away. Virtually no one denies that. You mentioned Opera...I'm not sure I've ever seen that on a store shelf. And no, most people probably will not pay for something marginally better than what you get for free. That's not a consequence of monopoly abuse, it's just common sense.
I was trying to decide if you were retarded/a troll. The above shows me that you are. 'Course, that fact doesn't make me any better for responding, but that's my own problem. I don't like half-truths/mis-truths being left as-is.
The ONLY reason that IE took off like it did was because it was bundled with the OS. Again, people's mentality is what helped here. "Why should I spend the time downloading (at 28.8k for some people, 14.4k or slower for others!) Netscape when this Internet Explorer thing came with the computer?
IE is most *certiantly* not any superior to it's competitors. Know why Netscape had to remain free? Because MS abused the fact that they could send their 'browser' for free with each copy of Windows. That is the ONLY reason IE took off like it did.
I used Netscape up untill they started bundling all sorts of crap (REAL, AIM, etc) with it. I hated having to clear all that shit off of my computer, so I gave up -- untill Mozilla, and later, Firefox came around. Hell, I'm typing this from Firefox 0.9.2 right now (still need to update this computer). Why? Built in pop-up blocking, it's not vulnerable to all of the myriad of IE exploits, and spyware/malware CANNOT get into my machine without my knowing about it (curre
It won't matter if someone can strip it out. If this flag comes about and hinders my ability to record, I will take the RCA video/audio outputs of said device and plug them into my All-In-Wonder and record everything I want. Sure, it won't be the origional singal, but it's close enough and better than VHS...
Plus, I can output this back through my receiver (An Onkyo TX-SR701) which will display right on my TV (I use the receiver as a video switch as well, so no need to unhook it to hook the computer to my TV - or something..:) )
You are assuming people never upgrade their software apparently. How many people bought a [whatever brand computer] and then pirated the XP "upgrade"?
Of the computers I work on? None -- that I'm aware of. If someone tells me (or any of the other techs I work with) that they stole the copy of Windows (or any other software on the computer), we will not work on it. How stupid are people to admit that? Believe me, there have been plenty. We also turn away anyone that comes in with a CD-R and a written product key wanting us to install it onto their computer. Unless they can product a real copy and a product key, we just won't touch it.
We sell quite a few 'upgrade' packs of various different software packages in the company for which I work. Mostly Windows and the various antivirus software..
Why are you so bent on believing that people are just horrible people who do nothing other than steal all day? I'm sure they have other things to do! =]
5) Any new computer purchased from the company I work for
6) Any new computer purchased from GlobalComputer/TigerDirect under the "SysteMax" name
I really could go on and on. You sir, are in idot in the worst way; Or a troll. One of the two.
(Now, the above isn't to say that the users of said brand new computers won't 'borrow' some software from friends/family, but makes it a far cry less than "%100 stolded" as you had suggested. Rare indeed.)
You think $75 is outrageous? We charge $110 per hour from 0 to 30 miles from our building, $130 per our 31-60 miles, and $150 an hour 61+ (no travel time is charged). We are doing well with these fees.
Two computer companies have already gone out of business and they charged half of our rates ('course, they did pretty much in-shop work only, only venturing out on special occasions). Another opened up recently, but I don't expect it will last long.
Just shows that, while people will complain, they will pay what you believe you are worth.
I, and many others, have already pre-ordered this chip. When I first decided to start looking for a mod chip for my xbox, I had no idea which to go with. I started reading through forums, reading all the reviews I could find, etc. The one chip that kept coming up were the Xecuter chips (2.3 in it's various forms). Seeing that X3 was coming out, I decided to order that one; if for no other reason that to have the latest one.
I've had too many of my movies get ruined by other people (That'll teach me for being so nice) so I've decided that I'm going to store the 50 or so that I own onto my xbox. Once done, I can put them into a safe storage place where they can't be hurt. If something happens to the xbox, I can pull out my still intact origionals and put them back onto a replacement.
I don't own any games for my xbox. The only games I had any fun playing were a couple of the person vs person 'fighting' games (of wich I can't remember the names). It's sole purpose from the day it's modified untill the day it fails will be for playing movies.
Besides, compared to just about everyone I know, my movie collection is rather small. Even at somewhere around 50 movies, I hate looking at all of them -- all the time -- every day.
Now, I'm not typing all this to say that I don't believe the modchips are being used for piracy. I'm sure that is a major use of it. I think this is the one case where MS, MPAA, and game producers SHOULD sue people cought using this illegally. I don't know how they would find out, but that is an excersize left to them. I certianly don't know anyone that's going to admit to it..
All I can say to those who decided to pick apart my sentence structure and my grammar is to get a life. It's you guys that should be moderated as -1 Troll (or even -1 Offtopic; I see this post going either way myself), not my post. Hell, the negatively moderated post of mine wouldn't be there at all if I wasn't stupid enough to feed the real Troll in the first place.
Guess that's a lesson learned (well, for me anyway -- I doubt those who replied, not to add to my post, but to pick it apart learned anything at all). Hell, I have the karma to burn. Keep them coming. Decide to moderate all my posts to the negative if you feel the need to do so. You'll get corrected in meta-moderation anyway.
I dunno. If Google does come out with a new browser, it would half to offer something that I Just Can't Live Without
A grammar checker for text input boxes is something you might not want to live without.
Something that filteres grammar/spelling nazies would be a good addition as well. There is nothing wrong with what I typed. Let me guess, your going to complain about the fact I put 'half' in there instead of 'have'? I have done that all through my schooling, have never had it corrected by any teachers, and will never quit using 'half' in place of 'have' where I deem it appropriate.
Get over yourself. (Same goes for the rest of you who fall under the same catagory as this person)
From what I understood by reading the article, they might actually be planning to release some sort of modified version of Mozilla. Having more browsers using the Gecko engine sure can't be a bad thing. Plus, it will put some pressure on Microsoft to improve their browser and actually support standards.
If Google places it's name on a browser, it will sure become popular in a matter of days.
The success of standards depend on having multiple quality implementations. Right now, this remains a problem as only Mozilla does it right (Safari seems to be fine but I never really tested it).
I dunno. If Google does come out with a new browser, it would half to offer something that I Just Can't Live Without(C)(TM)(R) or I will just stick with what works (in my case, FireFox).
I have a feeling I'm not the only one who has this mindset.
Slashdot Mirror
Your logic is flawed.
:)
Your Apple based computer is not superior to a PC for use on the internet.
Your logic assumes that one with a Windows PC uses Microsoft's security swiss-cheese Internet Explorer and Outlook/Outlook Express.
My computer, using Thunderbird and Firefox, has never once fallen victim to any sort of worm/virus/spyware. Comparing the lowest end Apple and PC products capable of getting on the internet to send/receive email and browse web pages, a computer from the Apple camp, the eMac, starts at $799 and goes up depending on how you want it 'customized' (such as it is for that line from Apple).
A similar machine, in this case - A Dell, starts at $499 with a 17" CRT (10% off sale right now, normal price is $549).
Both are capable of getting onto the internet via modem or (insert high-speed access type here). I decided to add a DVD+RW (8x) and a 1 year warranty/1 year at home warranty/1 year tech support, and MyDVD Delux to go with the DVD burner and the machine was *still* cheaper than the emac. FAR cheaper than the iMac (which starts at $1299!). Plus, the eMac only has a 40gb drive whereas the Dell has an 80 (Currently a free upgrade - normally has a 40gb). Adding a 160gb drive takes my price to $717 wich is STILL cheaper than a base model eMac.
I can go on. The Apple is *not* superior for the reasons you suggest so long as both are using decent software (read: Not IE and Outlook/Outlook Express).
If I had a choice between the hardware the Apple camp uses and the PC camp, I couldn't say wich I would choose. The Apple hardware certinaly does have some nice specs, however, everything I want to do with a computer is available in the "PC" camp. The same cannot be said for Apple. I am only one in a group of MILLIONS of people. I'm also not saying that the Apple line of products are crap, either. The whole purpose of this post was to dispell your belief that the Apple is superior because your computer hasn't gotten a virus/worm/spyware/whatever.
Take your soap box and go home, little boy. Your FUD isn't welcome here. Oh.. Have a nice day.
While not targeted at children directly, try dlsreports.com.
I mis-typed this once in front of my boss and ended up with a picture of a vagina on my screen.
Luckily there were no customers in our shop at the time.
Going to the site now returns a 'search' page instead of the porn site it used to be. Maybee dslreports.com had it taken down?
That is incredible :)
:)
I don't know how someone would even go about making something like that.
(Then again, I have no creative talent whatsoever, so I have no idea how artists go about making anything
The orange 'shadow' is just the pumpkin skin. The person had carved out the inside of the pumpkin and left the skin behind.
Probalby took quite abit of work, but it did look awesom..
Ok.. how about this service? I haven't had their service in over 2 years now, and having visited their web page, looks like they have moved on quite nicely. A visit to the newsgroup may provide better information. Back when I had the service, the web page was all smiles and kisses, and the newsgroups (both the official one that only customers could access and the unofficial one) were full of piss and venom.
Still an alternative to DirecWay and their FAP..
As a side note, I have only two service options available for me in the tiny town I reside:
Marktwain.net
Using Airspan equipment in the home. I get a static IP and 256k/128k for $44.99 a month, no port blocking whatsoever. I just have it on a Linksys router and can share to however many PC's I want (of course, the more PC's, the worse the speeds).
Missvaley.net
I don't know their equipment. You are FORCED behind a firewall at the ISP end. NO ports can reach you. You are REQUIRED to have a PCI wireless device (they provide) put into ONE PC. No sharing unless you use ICS (or it's equivelent). 384k-1.5mb/128k for $39.99.
I went with Marktwain.net's service so I could run my own mail/web server (and use the machine for learning how to setup other services). Wish I had better available, but I don't. =[
My god thats *TERRIBLE*, you're supposed to pay 1$ a month for music trickled to you at 8k/s?
No, we pay $9.99 a month to get our service. Less if we buy yearly or multi-yearly subscriptions.
Despite what others have said, I think the music channels sound awesome. I wouldn't say they are significantly better than an FM radio station, but they do sound good. I think those that are hearing 'degraded sound quality' probably have played it so loud that they are actually loosing their hearing. =]
I wouldn't know anything about taking the phone off the hook so I could use my computer. I ran OS/2 with 2 dial-in lines and a telnet line. I was still able to type/print my homework, get on the BBS on my own local node, play the games that were available, etc.
Only time I had to take the phone off the hook was when I was upgrading the PC (wich I did quite frequently back in the day).
I had somewhere around 150 active users (and many more in the database). I wanted to buy a car (I was about 18 at the time) and couldn't afford the car payment and the BBS, so I asked for a buck from everyone. Even if only half of the people donated, it would have kept the board alive, but alas, only two people sent anything in. A month later I took it down and sent the money back. By that time, the local ISP's and AOL were aggressivly advertising and getting people online and (ultimately) way from BBSs. =[
Oh well.. =] Those were the days.
However, if say, Dell, tried to pull this with MS, they would lose enormous sales and have very few other products with which to sustain themselves.
I think you are underestimating the profits of printer ink cartridges! =]
Let me ask still another question: "Ever wonder why people download Firefox now, despite IE *still* being bundled?"
You are such a fool, if you think that. People download it (and many MANY other things, illegal or otherwise) because 'broadband' is much more widely available compared to the time period I had been discussing.
Those OEMs didn't have to agree to the terms of the contracts they signed with MS. They *could* have sacrificed the price breaks MS gave them on Windows in favor of bundling all the great software you say was made by MS competitors. But they didn't do that. In the end, the "guilt" (I don't even like to call it that) lies with the OEMs moreso than Microsoft. Since those OEMs were dealing with the customers directly, one must assume that they thought the customers liked (i.e. would be more willing to purchase) cheaper computers with Windows preinstalled but no netscape more than they would have liked expensive computers with Netscape installed.
Sure they didn't need to, and for the reason you mentioned. However, it would have been stupid for them to NOT do so. They would have just gone out of business due to lack of sales and we would be right where we are today. Yes, the OEM's should have refused. If enough of them had the balls to do so, MS could not have gotten away with what they did. After the OEM's stopped putting Netscape and other office suites (for the longest time, IBM had Lotus SmartSuite and NS pre-installed), I had many customers ask me why. Now, why would they ask unless they had wanted that software?
Your arguements just don't hold up. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. You can't cite anything that backs you up (meanwhile, there are a plethora of links I could provide with a few minutes of googling that woudl hold up my end). This has turned into an arguement of the sort I have at work with two of the idiots I work with. They make all sorts of claims, yet have nothing to show to back them up. You might as well not even respond to this as I'll never read it. This has gone on long enough and your toll is done here and now.
Buh-Bye.
Okay, first of all, IE 3 was briefly bundled with the OS too. And what did people use? NETSCAPE! Horrah! I know I did, because IE3 was terrible. And then when I got to use IE4 alongside netscape, I realized, "Hey, this thing isn't a ridiculous slow resource hog! How 'bout that." and So that's what I used. Netscape was never great, and IE4 was when MS over took them.
IE3 was bundled with the OS starting with one of the Win95 OSR releases (2, or 2.5? I forget wich.) IE3 wasn't any more terrible than the current version of Netscape was. No matter how rosey-colored your glasses are, it won't change the fact that Microsoft *dissallowed* OEM's from bundling Netscape on their computers. Ever wonder why you didn't see Netscape or anything else on a new computer? Yup. That was Microsofts anti-competitive actions that did that. IE4 was when MS over took Netscape because it was strapped into Win98. When '98 came out, people upgraded/bought new PC's and there is where it started. It was never because IE was any better than Netscape. To state otherwise is obsurd.
And you're right, wtf would people on a 14.4 modem bother to download Netscape 4.whatever when IE4, which they already had (and was given out free in order to compete with free netscape, btw), was better anyway! Curse those handsome microsoft devils for making things *too* convenient!
If, as I stated previously, MS had allowed other browsers to be pre-installed by OEM's, I think things would be very different today. Damn MS's Handsome Devils for stopping competition for the furtherance of their own goals in-spite of their customers!
On to Apple accesseries. I rag on them because they aren't the end-all, be-all that you, and many other Apple-heads make them out to be. In your message, you had used it as a Plus to owning your Apple, not even acknowledging that the accessory you were speaking of was not exclusive to the Apple platform.
How much ram are we talking about? 512mb isn't enough to play smooth audio? Oh wait, yes it is, if you use winamp or wmp.
Are you high? I built a computer to replace my mothers crappy Gateway PC that only has 256MB RAM, and iTunes runs on it just fine. 'Course, the only reason iTunes is on it was because she had all these free song caps from Pepsi... but it still ran just fine.
If you had a problem with a PC and iTunes, then it was a problem with the PC you were using...
My Powerbook running itunes, quicktime, and Firefox disagrees with you.
Apple's measly 2%-5% market share disagrees with you. What is funny is that Apple has made it's own problem by cutting off the clone makers. I'd look at apple as a viable 'choice' if they hadn't done that. The hardware was good, the prices were getting more in-line with PC prices for the time, etc. Apple just couldn't stand that. They couldn't be content with being the MS of the PowerPC hardware. Stupid move, in my eyes. Yea, they are still around, but they will never be the large company that they could have been.
Not to mention that *any* Apple desktop computer I'd want to buy is exactly twice as expensive (if not mroe-so) than, say for example, a Dell desktop of comparable specs.
That's like having a choice between a decent car for about $30k or a luxury car for $60k or higher, and that is IT. Sure, there might be a few cars you can get for free, but you need to piece the thing together from parts you find all over the globe, but it's there!
It's just not the same.
So, why doesn't opera make a popular operating system? Why don't they release "Opera Linux" and bundle it there?
They should not need to do such a thing. It has been well documented, through the various court cases, that MS really only 'gave away' their browser to steal the share from the Netscape camp.
Now that the competitors have been screwed over, they can't just 'give away for free' back to MS to steal their share. Markets don't work that way.
The only reason the stuff that 'came bundled with windows' is "good enough" is because people aren't being educated that there are better products available. See my previous post to one of your own comments about this, and what I am personally doing about it. Keep in mind, however, that I am only one man. There is no way that I am going to have the time to get to enough people to change the world, as it were. People like you don't make things any eaiser. "Oh, forget all the others. They can't possibly be as good as what MS has - just drink some more of this Kool-Aid. Ooorr. I have this shiney new (insert Apple computer product here)!. Why don't you drop your perfectly good PC and spend a grand or more on this!".
Also - for more of a reason why MS was wrong for bundling, see the court cases. In most (if not all cases), they actually prevented the OEM's from bundling other companies software with the PC under threats of pulling the OEM agreements, or making them significantly more expensive! How is that NOT anti-competitive?
All I can say is that, after having read through your comments, you are full of shit. I would not be suprised if your eyes are brown...
Having re-read your post, I have another comment to elaborate on...
And I quoth:
And if it's so super wicked bad cool, advertise and tell people. I also said I've never seen Opera on a store shelf. How is that Microsoft's fault?
I think forcing OEM's to bundle IE and NOTIHNG ELSE (again, court documented) onto the computers had something to do with this.
Seems to me that advertising takes money. How are you supposed to generate that when MS won't allow large OEM's to bundle even a free version/time limited version of your product with the OEM's PC if the OEM wants to? As for store shelv's. Same problem. You can't purchase the needed components to get your software into a pretty box when MS has undercut your ability to advertise and get your product out.
Why should MS be allowed to say what can and cannot be installed by an OEM? Oh, that's right. There are laws against it. Something about being anti-competitive, or something like that... Microsoft has poisoned the well already. I am waking people up to that fact every day, but like I said. I'm only one person.
MS is not hurting consumer choice.
This comment from you is what proved to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are in fact a troll, and deserve to be moderated as such. There is court case after court case that proves you wrong. There are even numerous Class Action suits you can look up. (I'll leave you to your 'cuperior' ibook/powerbook/whatever you have to look those cases up yourself. You don't even need to leave Slashdot to do so)
In short, you don't get antitrust case after antitrust case (and, for that matter, class action after class action) if you aren't hurting your customers.
Move on, troll.
Well, that sentence alone makes me think you are a troll, but I'll respond anyway. I did run BeOS, for about 3 days, until I realized that it blew. A friend of mine had it on his mac and liked it, but always said the PC version sucked balls. I could never figure out the difference, but rest assured, Windows was better. And that is so depressing I think I'm gonna cry...
BeOS was very good. Booted very quickly, and while it was running, it crashed no more (and I'd say a bit less, actually) than Windows or Linux on the same PC. The problem Be had was getting applications to be built for it. Hmm. Wonder why that was. Probably "Well, the Windows apps are already there - lets not waste any of our time/money on something that could be much better when we already have this" attitudes.
Speaking of BeOS, ever hear what happened to OS/2? Yea, IBM is *partially* to blame for this one, but Microsoft certianly didn't help anything with it's tactics.
Well let's look at office suites. MS didn't have a monopoly on office suites. Corel used to make one (do they still? I haven't used it since it sucked so bad it made me puke.) What else was there? It's hard to blame Office's success on exploiting a monopoly when historically you had just one competitor, and that competitor sucked.
Well, Corel's office suite wasn't the ONLY other competitor. Lotus had it's SmartSuite available. Don't know if it still is or not, but it was there (I had two versions of it. SmartSuite '97 and another one.. I can't remember how it was labled.. had something to do with 2000. )
I'm sure there were others, however, the Lotus, MS, and Corel suites were the only ones I had really ever dealth with. I'd say the reason that many (bordering on most) people chose the MS suite was because it had Microsoft's name on it. In their minds, because it was from Microsoft, for it's Windows OS, it must have somehow been more reliable/better. Even though it was more expensive, they still chose it.
We already discussed media players, what about web browsers? Which one did everyone start off with? Netscape. In fact, if you had a memory that reached back more than 5 years you'd remember when everyone was cheering how microsoft missed the Internet boat. "HA HA, netscape and AOL have pwned MS!! They're stuck with that old cd-rom multimedia mantra! It's the web that's the future baby! They're done for!" That is, until ms came out with IE 4, and it blew netscape away. Virtually no one denies that. You mentioned Opera...I'm not sure I've ever seen that on a store shelf. And no, most people probably will not pay for something marginally better than what you get for free. That's not a consequence of monopoly abuse, it's just common sense.
I was trying to decide if you were retarded/a troll. The above shows me that you are. 'Course, that fact doesn't make me any better for responding, but that's my own problem. I don't like half-truths/mis-truths being left as-is.
The ONLY reason that IE took off like it did was because it was bundled with the OS. Again, people's mentality is what helped here. "Why should I spend the time downloading (at 28.8k for some people, 14.4k or slower for others!) Netscape when this Internet Explorer thing came with the computer?
IE is most *certiantly* not any superior to it's competitors. Know why Netscape had to remain free? Because MS abused the fact that they could send their 'browser' for free with each copy of Windows. That is the ONLY reason IE took off like it did.
I used Netscape up untill they started bundling all sorts of crap (REAL, AIM, etc) with it. I hated having to clear all that shit off of my computer, so I gave up -- untill Mozilla, and later, Firefox came around. Hell, I'm typing this from Firefox 0.9.2 right now (still need to update this computer). Why? Built in pop-up blocking, it's not vulnerable to all of the myriad of IE exploits, and spyware/malware CANNOT get into my machine without my knowing about it (curre
It won't matter if someone can strip it out. If this flag comes about and hinders my ability to record, I will take the RCA video/audio outputs of said device and plug them into my All-In-Wonder and record everything I want. Sure, it won't be the origional singal, but it's close enough and better than VHS...
:) )
Plus, I can output this back through my receiver (An Onkyo TX-SR701) which will display right on my TV (I use the receiver as a video switch as well, so no need to unhook it to hook the computer to my TV - or something..
Anyway.. I've rambled long enough..
You are assuming people never upgrade their software apparently. How many people bought a [whatever brand computer] and then pirated the XP "upgrade"?
Of the computers I work on? None -- that I'm aware of. If someone tells me (or any of the other techs I work with) that they stole the copy of Windows (or any other software on the computer), we will not work on it. How stupid are people to admit that? Believe me, there have been plenty. We also turn away anyone that comes in with a CD-R and a written product key wanting us to install it onto their computer. Unless they can product a real copy and a product key, we just won't touch it.
We sell quite a few 'upgrade' packs of various different software packages in the company for which I work. Mostly Windows and the various antivirus software..
Why are you so bent on believing that people are just horrible people who do nothing other than steal all day? I'm sure they have other things to do! =]
1) Any new computer purchased from Dell
2) Any new computer purchased from Gateway
3) Any new computer purchased from HP
4) Any new computer purchased from Compaq
5) Any new computer purchased from the company I work for
6) Any new computer purchased from GlobalComputer/TigerDirect under the "SysteMax" name
I really could go on and on. You sir, are in idot in the worst way; Or a troll. One of the two.
(Now, the above isn't to say that the users of said brand new computers won't 'borrow' some software from friends/family, but makes it a far cry less than "%100 stolded" as you had suggested. Rare indeed.)
You think $75 is outrageous? We charge $110 per hour from 0 to 30 miles from our building, $130 per our 31-60 miles, and $150 an hour 61+ (no travel time is charged). We are doing well with these fees.
Two computer companies have already gone out of business and they charged half of our rates ('course, they did pretty much in-shop work only, only venturing out on special occasions). Another opened up recently, but I don't expect it will last long.
Just shows that, while people will complain, they will pay what you believe you are worth.
That last one would be the Swedish Chef. Thanks.
I, and many others, have already pre-ordered this chip. When I first decided to start looking for a mod chip for my xbox, I had no idea which to go with. I started reading through forums, reading all the reviews I could find, etc. The one chip that kept coming up were the Xecuter chips (2.3 in it's various forms). Seeing that X3 was coming out, I decided to order that one; if for no other reason that to have the latest one.
I've had too many of my movies get ruined by other people (That'll teach me for being so nice) so I've decided that I'm going to store the 50 or so that I own onto my xbox. Once done, I can put them into a safe storage place where they can't be hurt. If something happens to the xbox, I can pull out my still intact origionals and put them back onto a replacement.
I don't own any games for my xbox. The only games I had any fun playing were a couple of the person vs person 'fighting' games (of wich I can't remember the names). It's sole purpose from the day it's modified untill the day it fails will be for playing movies.
Besides, compared to just about everyone I know, my movie collection is rather small. Even at somewhere around 50 movies, I hate looking at all of them -- all the time -- every day.
Now, I'm not typing all this to say that I don't believe the modchips are being used for piracy. I'm sure that is a major use of it. I think this is the one case where MS, MPAA, and game producers SHOULD sue people cought using this illegally. I don't know how they would find out, but that is an excersize left to them. I certianly don't know anyone that's going to admit to it..
The clown! The Clown! The Clown is on fire! We don't need no water let the (bleep bleep) burn!
That was one of THE funniest things I've ever seen!
What?! They service every city. Maybe you meant to say that they didn't have your area code? Don't worry, they don't have mine either.
This was probably what you were looking for, and it took me all of a few seconds to find it.
All I can say to those who decided to pick apart my sentence structure and my grammar is to get a life. It's you guys that should be moderated as -1 Troll (or even -1 Offtopic; I see this post going either way myself), not my post. Hell, the negatively moderated post of mine wouldn't be there at all if I wasn't stupid enough to feed the real Troll in the first place.
Guess that's a lesson learned (well, for me anyway -- I doubt those who replied, not to add to my post, but to pick it apart learned anything at all). Hell, I have the karma to burn. Keep them coming. Decide to moderate all my posts to the negative if you feel the need to do so. You'll get corrected in meta-moderation anyway.
End of thread.
I dunno. If Google does come out with a new browser, it would half to offer something that I Just Can't Live Without
A grammar checker for text input boxes is something you might not want to live without.
Something that filteres grammar/spelling nazies would be a good addition as well. There is nothing wrong with what I typed. Let me guess, your going to complain about the fact I put 'half' in there instead of 'have'? I have done that all through my schooling, have never had it corrected by any teachers, and will never quit using 'half' in place of 'have' where I deem it appropriate.
Get over yourself. (Same goes for the rest of you who fall under the same catagory as this person)
From what I understood by reading the article, they might actually be planning to release some sort of modified version of Mozilla. Having more browsers using the Gecko engine sure can't be a bad thing. Plus, it will put some pressure on Microsoft to improve their browser and actually support standards.
If Google places it's name on a browser, it will sure become popular in a matter of days.
The success of standards depend on having multiple quality implementations. Right now, this remains a problem as only Mozilla does it right (Safari seems to be fine but I never really tested it).
I dunno. If Google does come out with a new browser, it would half to offer something that I Just Can't Live Without(C)(TM)(R) or I will just stick with what works (in my case, FireFox).
I have a feeling I'm not the only one who has this mindset.