that means only exploring stuff that boring suits think might generate a bottom line.
even worse, it means exploring stuff that suits think will generate the highest amount, leaving us with an intellectual monoculture.
i understand the csiro has already re-invested into further wireless research as a result of this, but i also hope they're able to spread it around the organisation, even some pie-in-the-sky stuff ( the original wifi patent came about as a result of some radiotelescope research... hows that for pie in the sky?:) )
Perhaps government agencies should leave "business" to businesses.
Perhaps business lobbies should leave "government" to governments.
pun aside, the csiro is a research organisation, funded by the commonwealth, and providing a return on the investment through patenting the outcomes of its research. another former public asset was the commonweath serum laboratory ( CSL ), which was sold at a price some years ago, and no longer returns its profits to the previous owner ( the australian government ).
we've been down this path with telcos, water authorities and power distributors ( privatisation ), and as far as i can tell, the only upside is if you land a senior management or board level gig with the new owners. certainly not the consumers, let alone the lower level employees who are thinned out before sale, then outsourced as soon as the public outcry over privatisation settles down.
i for one am all for government businesses, as these tend to be much more long-term result focused ( though short electoral cycles and the penchant for the right to strip and sell the assets do get in the way), which leads to steady training and employment through higher education in these fields.
universities in australia are largely publicly funded, and although there has been a push by some recent governments to make such institutions profitable in the short term, applying the long term lens to education is key to economic development for both public and private business.
why then do you think its bad for governments to be running institutions that can return on the investments they make?
its the first and only sensible response in the whole thread!
got a smallish business? google apps for the domain will be free
really, you pay a fraction of the cost of running your own mail / calendar / collaboration services with the additional benefit of them also handling the spam filtering for you.
i too ran my own smtp/imap servers for years, but have switched and will never look back!
ha. 'the city', and by that we generally mean sydney and melbourne, have been propping up 'the country' for generations with tax dollars from manufacturing and tertiary services ( and the like )
and now, with the voracious chinese economy booming to provide a viable market for all that red dirt, the bleating about 'contribution' comes up.
Sun Java and Adobe Flash have lacked 64 bit support
eh?
sun has had 64 bit binaries for linux as long as i can remember, at least since 1.4.x, and i'd take a loose bet they had 1.3.x 64 bit packages too. ( any earlier and you'd be stretching to find a 64 bit intel/amd linux distro...)
the java runtime itself has been natively 64 bits for a long time.
you _may_ be getting confused with the horrendous java applet plugin for _browsers_ which i think has only recently been part of the distributed java bundles.
please - consider that the internet filter shenanigans has been an elaborate charade to woo that nufty 'family first' senator steven fielding, and as soon as he's gone, labor can drop the charade entirely.
in that regard, if you must vote below the line, reserve the last couple o spots for family first.
( oh, and given there are 60 candidates for the senate in victoria, a 61 for anyone will render your vote null and void...)
Tony Abbott apparently doesn't understand a thing about modern networking
ahh, if it were only modern networking mr. Abbott didnt understand - the reality is that he, like his hero predecessor mr. Howard, and his predecessor's hero mr. Menzies, simply dont understand a world past about 1955.
its been around for years, and has kept my ssh service nice and available for almost as long.
basically, keeps a contrack record for tcp new attempts on the configured port(s), with threshholds for how many attempts before being temporarily blacklisted, then a timeout for how long before they can go again.
fail2ban and denyhosts fee way to high up in the stack for my liking
But for embedded/minimalist supporters, it means they need to add more hardware to their machines to support the now-larger kernel, chock full of features they'll never need or want.
well, not quite. more like the minimalist guys need to spend more time stripping out the bits they dont want ( menuconfig or rm -Rf from the source..).
more likely to have it scripted anyway so they dont start from scratch with each new kernel release.
or their own git trees...
either way, for the minimalist distros and embedded device guys, all the extra stuff in the kernel sources are simply excluded/ignored from the build. if anything, the option to pick and choose from the broader set of perhaps kludgy or duplicated code is probably keeping their binaries pretty tidy.
are you saying that the british universal healthcare system _prevented_ mr. hardy from purchasing it himself?
didnt think so.
just because pfizer can come up with an expensive new drug ( that is their business you know ), doesnt instantly provide rationalisation to purchase it.
any evidence of what the benefits to this expensive new drug were?
i'd say that if mr. hardy had kidney cancer, which had spread to his lungs, his days are pretty well numbered as it is, so handing over a metric assload of cash to pfizer in order to extend his life by a matter of (probably only) weeks would be sheer self indulgent madness.
it comes down to this: would mrs. hardy like to be the one to pick and choose which services to deny others in need from the healthcare system in order to cover the cost of the expensive medication?
without the markitecture diagrams and execuspeak please.
the vast ( and i mean _vast_! ) majority of needs in an application database are covered just fine by free/open source tools, speed, reliability and redundancy inclusive.
the remainder probably could benefit from reconsideration of architecture and data access design.
the only reason you would nominate oracle is if your department needed to blow a remaining budget in order to get the same budget next year.
that or oracle sales reps helped write your requirements documentation.
The sensible thing to do would be to run Oracle Linux for your Oracle products and Red Hat (or CentOS if you didn't want support) for everything else. As they are all virtually the same, it's a lot easier for your administrators.
IMHO, the really sensible thing to do is not run oracle products at all. even the bea purchase and rebadging of the weblogic/aqualogic app server doesnt change that.
i've never bothered to look at oracle linux, because i can get 'free' redhat through centos, and when i want paid support, i can get it directly through redhat.
without some other differentiation, what is oracle providing that isnt there from the others?
actually, this part of my original rebuttal was in relation to the troll's assertion that everyone had ditched java...
there is a time and a place for everything, but if your penny-pinched cheap ass hardware cant run the software, then where do you lay the blame?
certainly every mobile phone i've had in the last 5 years has run java applications which are responsive and stable ( i concede this is usually one golf game per phone, but still...), and i dont go for the top of the line bright and shineys...
And to cap it all, the JVM is utterly non-portable, so much so that barely 1/4 of the highly varied boxes in my computer room complete the installation cleanly
perhaps you need to take the 'how to double-click install.exe' course again?
i call you an epic fail!:P
[ i know i shouldnt feed the trolls, but i'm bored ]
Now it's racks of big ass servers or blades groaning under badly designed layers and layers of Java 'middleware'
so your premis here is the problem is the language/platform rather than the design at fault?
If you have insane amounts of CPU and memory to throw at it to cover up the slowness
either you need to replace the tandy coco you mention later as your primary pc, or you could actually _try_ it before you bag it. ( trying it again after 1997 might also be an idea..)
Must have missed it.
that tends to happen when you have HASUB* syndrome. it happens, dont worry about it. you probably havent noticed a lot of stuff.
.. some rant about java and vista bloat related to java desktop. and then brings solaris and mac into it. pfft.
yawn.
No, you notice when a small app starts sucking up all available memory. Java sucks memory so hard GNOME starts looking lean in comparison
i can malloc my way into something that smells the same in c too.. only in java you're less likely to leak.
hey actually put players on shelves that take upwards of two minutes to go from tray close to anything useful appearing on the display
huh? i drop blu-ray disks into my ps3 and its playing within a few seconds. you're smoking crack.
I've got a cheap crappy basic cell phone. You can almost see individual pixels draw on the darned thing...
unless you run an application on your cheap crappy phone, you're probably looking at just the cheapness and the crappiness of the phone, not java.
i think what you really meant in the above post was more along the lines of 'get off my lawn'.
i know this is slashdot, but occasional fact checking really cant hurt if you're going to go on a raving rant about your hatred of specific technologies.
*HASUB syndrome: Head And Shoulders Up Bum syndrome
you're confusing java applets circa 1997 with the java platform.
take a look through the it job listings and see how much java comes up.
much, if not most, server side *enterprise* work is done in java, which is a mature, robust, reliable, performant and scalable platform for which there are myriad commercial and open source libraries to give any project a great set of building blocks and frameworks on which to build.
i check out language du jour a couple times a year, and every time it reaffirms java's benefits.
the problem with applets is they were generally pretty hacky, but there are some good ones out there.
( check out the yahoo games website - my wife has been addicted to literati for years, and its a nice little java applet ).
java on the desktop has a place too, however its the same set of rules for design and structure as applets: done well, nobody would know/care what language its written in, but done poorly without care for threading models and it'll quickly turn into a steaming pile.
then theres j2me, and i'd wager if you have any tivo type device, or even set-top box for your cable service, or blu-ray player, or most mobile phones these days, then you have java working for you there too.
not that i'm arguing for applets by any means, but the more people spread the same old rants as above, the more i'm inclined to correct them.
They tend to believe that economic problems can be solved by the application of government force.
bullshit. the _vast_ majority of free market economists believe in the absolute authority of market forces, which when left unchecked have proved how spectacularly wrong they are.
Slashdot Mirror
we do indeed, but they arent like yours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_playing_field
they arent of a regulation size either.
which brings us back to: SI units, please
that means only exploring stuff that boring suits think might generate a bottom line.
even worse, it means exploring stuff that suits think will generate the highest amount, leaving us with an intellectual monoculture.
i understand the csiro has already re-invested into further wireless research as a result of this, but i also hope they're able to spread it around the organisation, even some pie-in-the-sky stuff ( the original wifi patent came about as a result of some radiotelescope research... hows that for pie in the sky? :) )
Perhaps government agencies should leave "business" to businesses.
Perhaps business lobbies should leave "government" to governments.
pun aside, the csiro is a research organisation, funded by the commonwealth, and providing a return on the investment through patenting the outcomes of its research. another former public asset was the commonweath serum laboratory ( CSL ), which was sold at a price some years ago, and no longer returns its profits to the previous owner ( the australian government ).
we've been down this path with telcos, water authorities and power distributors ( privatisation ), and as far as i can tell, the only upside is if you land a senior management or board level gig with the new owners. certainly not the consumers, let alone the lower level employees who are thinned out before sale, then outsourced as soon as the public outcry over privatisation settles down.
i for one am all for government businesses, as these tend to be much more long-term result focused ( though short electoral cycles and the penchant for the right to strip and sell the assets do get in the way), which leads to steady training and employment through higher education in these fields.
universities in australia are largely publicly funded, and although there has been a push by some recent governments to make such institutions profitable in the short term, applying the long term lens to education is key to economic development for both public and private business.
why then do you think its bad for governments to be running institutions that can return on the investments they make?
.. just slip it into neutral - for manual or automatic transmission, then gradually apply the park brake.
on those rare occasions something like this comes up up the news, i cant help but think a) bullshit, and b) neutral, dipshit!
why is this modded -1?
its the first and only sensible response in the whole thread!
got a smallish business? google apps for the domain will be free
really, you pay a fraction of the cost of running your own mail / calendar / collaboration services with the additional benefit of them also handling the spam filtering for you.
i too ran my own smtp/imap servers for years, but have switched and will never look back!
No money goes back to the regions
ha. 'the city', and by that we generally mean sydney and melbourne, have been propping up 'the country' for generations with tax dollars from manufacturing and tertiary services ( and the like )
and now, with the voracious chinese economy booming to provide a viable market for all that red dirt, the bleating about 'contribution' comes up.
correcting my own presumptions,
seems java 5 was the first 64 bit sun distribution for linux.
takes a while to get there, but you can still click round the oracle java sites and find the binaries..
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/jdk/142/
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/5u22/jdk
for the impatient
still, java 5 released sept 29 2004, so i guess i'm stretching to remember installs from 6 years ago
Sun Java and Adobe Flash have lacked 64 bit support
eh?
sun has had 64 bit binaries for linux as long as i can remember, at least since 1.4.x, and i'd take a loose bet they had 1.3.x 64 bit packages too. ( any earlier and you'd be stretching to find a 64 bit intel/amd linux distro...)
the java runtime itself has been natively 64 bits for a long time.
you _may_ be getting confused with the horrendous java applet plugin for _browsers_ which i think has only recently been part of the distributed java bundles.
They do regression testing.
and yet vista was released...
*ducks
Victorians: Vote [61] Stephen Conroy
please - consider that the internet filter shenanigans has been an elaborate charade to woo that nufty 'family first' senator steven fielding, and as soon as he's gone, labor can drop the charade entirely.
in that regard, if you must vote below the line, reserve the last couple o spots for family first.
( oh, and given there are 60 candidates for the senate in victoria, a 61 for anyone will render your vote null and void...)
Tony Abbott apparently doesn't understand a thing about modern networking
ahh, if it were only modern networking mr. Abbott didnt understand - the reality is that he, like his hero predecessor mr. Howard, and his predecessor's hero mr. Menzies, simply dont understand a world past about 1955.
works quite well for me
http://www.snowman.net/projects/ipt_recent/
its been around for years, and has kept my ssh service nice and available for almost as long.
basically, keeps a contrack record for tcp new attempts on the configured port(s), with threshholds for how many attempts before being temporarily blacklisted, then a timeout for how long before they can go again.
fail2ban and denyhosts fee way to high up in the stack for my liking
with solaris going gpl, i think linaris is more likely :)
HP-UX, AIX, Minix, Irix...OSX
some variants match the nix, others dont.
maybe just *X would be more accurate?
But for embedded/minimalist supporters, it means they need to add more hardware to their machines to support the now-larger kernel, chock full of features they'll never need or want.
well, not quite. more like the minimalist guys need to spend more time stripping out the bits they dont want ( menuconfig or rm -Rf from the source..).
more likely to have it scripted anyway so they dont start from scratch with each new kernel release.
or their own git trees...
either way, for the minimalist distros and embedded device guys, all the extra stuff in the kernel sources are simply excluded/ignored from the build. if anything, the option to pick and choose from the broader set of perhaps kludgy or duplicated code is probably keeping their binaries pretty tidy.
so...
are you saying that the british universal healthcare system _prevented_ mr. hardy from purchasing it himself?
didnt think so.
just because pfizer can come up with an expensive new drug ( that is their business you know ), doesnt instantly provide rationalisation to purchase it.
any evidence of what the benefits to this expensive new drug were?
i'd say that if mr. hardy had kidney cancer, which had spread to his lungs, his days are pretty well numbered as it is, so handing over a metric assload of cash to pfizer in order to extend his life by a matter of (probably only) weeks would be sheer self indulgent madness.
it comes down to this: would mrs. hardy like to be the one to pick and choose which services to deny others in need from the healthcare system in order to cover the cost of the expensive medication?
define 'enterprise class'.
without the markitecture diagrams and execuspeak please.
the vast ( and i mean _vast_! ) majority of needs in an application database are covered just fine by free/open source tools, speed, reliability and redundancy inclusive.
the remainder probably could benefit from reconsideration of architecture and data access design.
the only reason you would nominate oracle is if your department needed to blow a remaining budget in order to get the same budget next year.
that or oracle sales reps helped write your requirements documentation.
'enterprise class' pffft.
The sensible thing to do would be to run Oracle Linux for your Oracle products and Red Hat (or CentOS if you didn't want support) for everything else. As they are all virtually the same, it's a lot easier for your administrators.
IMHO, the really sensible thing to do is not run oracle products at all. even the bea purchase and rebadging of the weblogic/aqualogic app server doesnt change that.
i've never bothered to look at oracle linux, because i can get 'free' redhat through centos, and when i want paid support, i can get it directly through redhat.
without some other differentiation, what is oracle providing that isnt there from the others?
so yes, it is just a rip off of red hat.
.. pull my finger.
actually, this part of my original rebuttal was in relation to the troll's assertion that everyone had ditched java...
there is a time and a place for everything, but if your penny-pinched cheap ass hardware cant run the software, then where do you lay the blame?
certainly every mobile phone i've had in the last 5 years has run java applications which are responsive and stable ( i concede this is usually one golf game per phone, but still...), and i dont go for the top of the line bright and shineys...
And to cap it all, the JVM is utterly non-portable, so much so that barely 1/4 of the highly varied boxes in my computer room complete the installation cleanly
perhaps you need to take the 'how to double-click install.exe' course again?
i call you an epic fail! :P
[ i know i shouldnt feed the trolls, but i'm bored ]
Now it's racks of big ass servers or blades groaning under badly designed layers and layers of Java 'middleware'
so your premis here is the problem is the language/platform rather than the design at fault?
If you have insane amounts of CPU and memory to throw at it to cover up the slowness
either you need to replace the tandy coco you mention later as your primary pc, or you could actually _try_ it before you bag it. ( trying it again after 1997 might also be an idea..)
Must have missed it.
that tends to happen when you have HASUB* syndrome. it happens, dont worry about it. you probably havent noticed a lot of stuff.
.. some rant about java and vista bloat related to java desktop. and then brings solaris and mac into it. pfft.
yawn.
No, you notice when a small app starts sucking up all available memory. Java sucks memory so hard GNOME starts looking lean in comparison
i can malloc my way into something that smells the same in c too.. only in java you're less likely to leak.
hey actually put players on shelves that take upwards of two minutes to go from tray close to anything useful appearing on the display
huh? i drop blu-ray disks into my ps3 and its playing within a few seconds. you're smoking crack.
I've got a cheap crappy basic cell phone. You can almost see individual pixels draw on the darned thing...
unless you run an application on your cheap crappy phone, you're probably looking at just the cheapness and the crappiness of the phone, not java.
i think what you really meant in the above post was more along the lines of 'get off my lawn'.
i know this is slashdot, but occasional fact checking really cant hurt if you're going to go on a raving rant about your hatred of specific technologies.
*HASUB syndrome: Head And Shoulders Up Bum syndrome
you're confusing java applets circa 1997 with the java platform.
take a look through the it job listings and see how much java comes up.
much, if not most, server side *enterprise* work is done in java, which is a mature, robust, reliable, performant and scalable platform for which there are myriad commercial and open source libraries to give any project a great set of building blocks and frameworks on which to build.
i check out language du jour a couple times a year, and every time it reaffirms java's benefits.
the problem with applets is they were generally pretty hacky, but there are some good ones out there.
( check out the yahoo games website - my wife has been addicted to literati for years, and its a nice little java applet ).
java on the desktop has a place too, however its the same set of rules for design and structure as applets: done well, nobody would know/care what language its written in, but done poorly without care for threading models and it'll quickly turn into a steaming pile.
then theres j2me, and i'd wager if you have any tivo type device, or even set-top box for your cable service, or blu-ray player, or most mobile phones these days, then you have java working for you there too.
not that i'm arguing for applets by any means, but the more people spread the same old rants as above, the more i'm inclined to correct them.
They tend to believe that economic problems can be solved by the application of government force.
bullshit. the _vast_ majority of free market economists believe in the absolute authority of market forces, which when left unchecked have proved how spectacularly wrong they are.