Since a long time art pretends to be useless (it was not the case till the 19th century, where, in a world that was not yet objective nor real the question about useful- or uselessness was not even to be raised). It is therefore logical that it should have a predilection for trash and waste, which is also useless. To turn any object into a piece of art you just have to make it useless. What the ready-made achieves by taking away the function from the object, without changing it in any way (by the way, Duchamp was not so obsessed with the ready-made : he said "One ready-made from time to time, but not ten a day !")
From this article from Baudrillard. Granted I'm not sure how much I agree, but I think the art as "funtionless" arguement is wholly a new idea springing only from the early part of the 20th century. We still recognize great arcitechture as art, such as the Golden Gate Bridge, the Chrystler building, Notre Dame, and part of the beauty of these lies in their functionality. Granted I also see some industrial design as art, such as the style of the iPod and the OS X interface, as packaging simplicity into a complicated form.
I think art is a pinched definition. If we claim art is "functionless" can't we claim that art's purpose or function then is to be "functionless", defeating its own definition. Art is purpose driven, it exists to do something. In the end it may just be "art is what our culture collectivly calls art"
I think there has been some attempt at art, though. Katamari (however its spelled), for example contained a surrealistic simplicity. A game like Killer 7 had potential of being very much art (narrative and style), but sadly it was limited by its format somewhat, if it was a move, though, it would have been a cult hit. Then we have a game like Wind Waker (Zelda) which tries very hard to be artistic.
I think the problem is contextual, right now we can't see them as art, because we live in a time when art is defined by a limited scope of possible mediums. Just like movies back at their advent, they were something to waste time, offer shallow entertainment, but in retrospect we can call some of them art. Granted recognition will only be granted to >1% of the titles out there now, but I can see it happening. How this judgement looks when it comes is a mystery though. Will they be art-as-engineering (the Golden Gate bridge, Chrystler building), art as in movies, or books? A weird combo of the three?
I had to, lucky for them XP doesn't support RAR format, ditto with the automatic compression handling on OS X (where I need an app for tar, bzip, and sit). Oddly, the average XP user doesn't actually use.zip files, ever, at least from my experience. The software they do download is generally an installer, and they never worry about compressed packages.
While anecdotal, I say it isn't hurting them, because their still around, producing software.
But how do we define intelligence in a non-speciescentric way? Our current definition of intelligence hinges on compairing other examples to ourself. Dolphins are intelligent (by human standard), wherease blue-green algea isn't (by human standards). But both could be defined as intelligent in that they occupy their niche sucessfully, and display the amount of adaptability needed to thrive in said niche. Less sucessful than us, perhaps, but we're generalists.
See the general problem behind defining extra-human intelligence?
Agreed. I remember the hastle of having to install WinRar everytime I did a fresh install of Windows 3.11-98SE (with some NT line in there, but ignored for simplicity). Did XP (or OS X 10.whatnot) handling zip internally files really hurt the compression market? No, but it was a boon to consumers, simplifying things signifigantly, even if it was stepping on some toes. The OS producer (listen up Linux devs!) should be more worried about making the OS as complete as humanly possible, and this includes including features supporting commonly used operations. This now includes scanning for viruses and burning DVDs. This doesn't really hurt the market, since these features are less complex and complete than a stand-alone 3rd-party solution. Even if XP could handle.zip, I still had WinRar, even even OS X (my beast of choice, today) can burn CDs and DVDs, I still use Toast, it has more advanced features. Granted for simple jobs the 3rd party app might be ignored, but it will always serve for more robust features. I'm sure a scanner supplied by MS will fill the need of some segment of the population (those novices who don't even know what a virus is, nor how to find a 3rd party app and keep it updated), more advanced people will rankle under the necissary simplicity. Same for a DVD burning app, it will offer basic functionality, but for more advanced tasks ROXIO or Nero will be needed.
Using OS X as an example, how many people use Quicktime (bundled) as their primary media viewer? Most of the people (who are more advanced in their usage) use VLC or mPlayer, since it supports more codecs, and formats, and allows you to do much more sophisticated tasks.
Take Notepad out of XP, it infringes upon the text editor market!
As the rare objective Mac user, I must agree. My years of experience with XP Pro and 2000 were not really negative on the OS side, stability wise. My XP was capable of 3 months of uptime, generally, which is better than my record running OS X (reboots due to patches mostly, but a couple of nasty OS crashes), and this is with pretty heavy computing. Lots of program crashes, but very few BSoDs.
Granted the maintenense got rather heavy, with spyware sweeps, and weekly anti-viral fests. That and hardware problems, which one cannot really blame MS for.
One acronym: MUDs. A good MUD pulled off the full MMOPRG experience, with story, character interaction, grinding, etc... All within a pure text enviroment. These are why I put off playing modern MMOs (starting with UO), because I realized that they could eat a large portion of my life. Almost the entirety of the 90's was wasted on killing Fidos. Hell, your not hardcore until you break up with your real girlfreind because she is distracting you from your leveling grind.
I agree and disagree. While the day-to-day content was very much mindless "step and fetch/kill", it does at least have a grand over-arching story, which isn't half bad. I remember finally completeing the Onyxia quest, and having the guards escort me through town, and inviting a massive cloud of newbs to watch the guard slaughter her. I actually had some emotional resonance to that, it made me feel proud. Perhaps this was because I was playing on a RP server, so I had a bit more pathos for my character than I would have on a PVP server.
When I was just wondering around with a friend, we stumbled on the Dark Portal, I didn't even realize it was there. But being a massive fan of the whole Warcraft series, it made me very happy, to actually wonder upon it. since it is the very (virtual) cause to me wasting years of my life on playing Warcraft games, and thus is a somewhat important momument. Same thing with standing before Thrall. The general context of the game is completely imbedded within a good story, even if the daily questing generally isn't (though some of the big threads are pretty good).
I agree though, that some of the game is ruined by the "hardcore" folk, I was generally casual, and much maligned (being one of perhaps 3 feral druids on our server at the time, and wearing pure shadowcraft, cadaverous). And the emphasis on level 60 raiding is rather annoying too, where the game enters the diablo "Barbie" trap, where it becomes all about collecting better outfits, and who has the most spare time to waste. Your behind if you don't have 6 hours to waste on Core runs, and your behind if you want to play your character the way you see fit, and not in some cookie cutter build. The endgame is boring, its more about status than fun.
I read a book about this, forgot the title, so take this with a grain of salt. It turns out that about 60% of lefties (and a signifigant portion of righties) are ambidextrious. I eat left, bowl right, write left, bat right. General rule is that fine gestures are done by the left hand, and more gross gestures are done by the right. No idea why this is, but it seems a general rule in the majority of left-handers. it might be the mental exercise of developing in a right handed world. (School desks... oh lord... don't get me started).
I'm still hunting for a decent multi-button mouse for lefties, but they all are ergonomic for righties. I know MS does offer one if you send away, but I'd rather try it first. The best I could find was the logitech 5 button mouse.
Once upon a time, a long long timw ago there were blocks... Many many blocks, of colors, falling. And well, the great king of Tetrisonia told you, his loyal minion, to... er... rotate them in two dimentions, since Tetrisonia is a suburb of Flatland, so that they form nice little rows, to asuage the kings OCD, and then, and only then will they conveniently disapear thanks to the help of the Dwarves of Makeing Blocks Disapear and Such. But, beware young adventurer, if the blocks reach the oh-so-close heavens, then the great Wizards of the Really Obnoxious Defeat Noise will make a really obnoxious defeat noise, and the game will be over. And you'll die, perhaps, or just continues 3 times until you give up, and fling the magic Gameboy Brick of Doom against a wall.
This is in that book? I'll pick it up next time I swing past a Borders, it seems interesting. Sorry I can't really comment until I read it, but the scenario you underline seems plausable and interesting.
I haven't read it (though I will) so I can't really dispute the premises, but I take most theories of prehistoric human disasters with a grain of salt, since there also exist naturalistic explanations for many of the phenomena now attributed to human causes (mass-extinctions, for example, though the theory of the fall of Greece would be more applicable). It seems that humans, as a whole, really like to blame past problems on themselves if it serves to further modern agendas. In the last couple thousand years we have seen several global climate events of a large magnitude (ice ages, mini-ice-ages, and warming trends) that have had natural causes, and had sever effects on human societies, so my default view on blaming climatic events on humans is generally to say it is naturally caused until a burden of proof shows otherwise. Again, not critiquing your premise, just explaining my position.
Before irrigation, Egypt was green. GREEN! Now it's a fucking desert.
Care to cite a source on this? The whole region (the Sahara) was much greener in the past, this is true, but desertification started long before the advent of agriculture, and has been creeping along for the last 30,000 years or so. Egypt, at least as long as it has held civilization, always been mostly desert, which is why the largest population centers there (now, and thoughout history) have been next to the Nile. Also do a brief refresher of Egyption mythology to see the importance of annual Nile flooding for their agriculture thoughout the ages. 60,000 years ago Egypt indeed might have been more grassy than today, or even 30,000 years ago, but it changed previous to the advent of heavy agriculture.
I think Brazil is doing much better ecologically than we are, even if this "risk" to topsoil is real. Top soil can be managed through intelligent farming techniques, it can even be retained and replenished thanks to modern farming technology. Even fertilizers can be used to replenish mineral and nitrogen content of the soil, and while if used unintelligently this can lead to enviromental impacts, this is not a necissary consiquence.
In the end, the enviromental consiquences of ethenol is much much less than using fossil fuel (which, BTW, has nothing to do with dinosaurs, or even prehistoric fauna, it is the result of ancient, but much after dinosaurs, swamps and boglands decaying).
I really don't see how Brazil is destroying their economy. All indicators say that their succesfully applying a socialist model to it, with great results. Granted, their not quite up to "first world" standards, but in light of the region, and history, they're doing great for an progressive emerging economy.
I guess the estate of Hegel should sue, since he used it first. Actually I think it was a common german word in the 18th and 19th centuries, so I guess common language has prior art. It means spirit of the times, which is pretty applicable to both Google's use, and this use.
I'm sorry, I have a way of coming off more extreme than I actually am. I do start off polite, I am a very polite person by default, especially when it comes to underpaid peons since I understand the difficulty (and low reward) for such work, and know that this is many of their starter jobs. So a certain amount of slippage is definately expected and allowed, and beyond that my first reaction is politely bringing it to their attention, and if that fails asking for their manager.
I have had kids flat out refuse to bring the request to their manager, though. Or the manager being an unhelpful and rude asshat. So I see no harm in stepping up the pressure, and making it difficult for them doing business, holding up lines, telling other customers in line whats going on, making damn sure to make life difficult until either my complaint is addressed, or it becomes obvious that the store is run by jabbering 14 year old drop-outs. But the first course of action, politely addresing the situation, generally works.
Cops have never been involved, nor have I ever been banned from an establishment, it never escalates that far, when I reach the top of the chain of command on location, I generally just get everyone's names, and end up following up on it later.
I just don't, as it seems I'm suppoosed to, give up with bad service and go my way. I'm not resigned to it, and don't tolerate it. I don't care who you are, doing your job well is a sign of human worth, and I hold those people to the same standards in which I hold myself, and the same consiquences I would expect for myself.
It is illegal in Arizona too, but the loophole is that you have to pay for the cup generally. I've seen it range from 10c to 25c a cup, which isn't much to us, but for the truly down and out it is enough to limit access. Some stores won't even let the homeless in to ask, if someone "scruffy" is seen entering the door, they are "politely" asked to leave.
I thank you for sharing my unpopular position. I've noticed more and more how people will just put up with any crap service they get, smile and go on their merry way. I really think that this shows the higher ups that people will tolerate it, and thus can make it part of the model. If you put a cog in it, perhaps it will allow someone to see a serious problem in their service model.
I'm very happy that people think my wanting service somehow translates into "something for nothing". This is not what generally, only when service breaks down in the first place. If I order a burger and fries, and I get a cold fish sandwich, then yes, I want not only my damn burger and fried, but my money back. This seems fair. In the tech-support area I can't think of much that would compare right now, but I'm not asking for a free month of... whatnot. I want to be treated as a human being, and not some boreing gnat that you have to deal with daily by force, I want it to at least seem that I matter, and my customer experience is important to you, and those who you represent. The free stuff issue should never come up, and I would be happy if it didn't, since it means there there was a serious break of service previous to it.
All I really want out of the service sector is to be treated like a human, and not some necissary variable in the corporate machine.
I used to do the same sort of work, customer service / tech help, and at times I really REALLY wanted to be nasty, but I moslty refrained. (Yes, the people who came of as assholes got treated as such) If you were polite, and attentive, you would never realize that I was an asshole. I try my damnest to give what I get. Good service and I'm calling up the chain of command to commend you, in resturants leaving a massive tip, you get the point.
Weak? What does weakness have to do with it? Its not like I'm on some Neitzchean kick or something. I don't have sympathy for the stupid, correct. I can't stand bad service, correct. I can't stand apathetic teenager who are too... whatever... to do their jobs. If you have a task you should do it well, period. I guess I am an asshole for having expectations that I hold people to. Though, then again, perhaps if other people had expectations the world would be a better place.
I am all about sympathy to those who deserve it. Lets say we have two homeless people, though... One who got layed off, is crippled from debt, etc... Him I will go out of my way to help. Say we have another one, who just decided that crack was fun, and is too lazy to work, him deserves nothing but what he decided to get. Same goes with the service industries, if you treat me like a human and do your job within the conventional bounds of rightness and wrongness your fine, and I'll try to make your life easier. If your a drooling dolt who is inattentive to his job, or treats corporate policies as an excuse not to care, then I really don't care.
This is exactly what I meant, reguardless of troll mod. though if the policy, such as in the story, is completely idiotic, then I will be (as some insightful slashbot called me) an asshole up the chain of command. I really don't think that underlings are quite clear from blaim in bad policy.
The other day I ws talking to a coffee slinger in Phoenix about the homeless, and he told me that he is not allowed to give them water for free, even when it is 113 degrees outside, but does so anyways, even when this can cost him his job. This goes to show that people can be decent, it throws light on all the people being asses for "just doing their job", there is a choice, and at times it is their responsibility to make the right thing happen.
Also, as above, there is some reluctance for the underlings to let complaints go up the chain of command.
Falling Down comes to mind, what does it hurt to sarve breakfast to someone 5 minutes late, even if it is against some idiotic policy?
I like to fume at bad service, for several reasons...
A) I generally get my way, and get the service for free. B) I cause a stoppage in the smooth flow of business by holding up line, getting supervisors, managers etc... C) Hopefully I do in front of as many customers as possible, to cause the most possible discomfort in the highschool drop out serving me, and his buinsess college dropout boss.
I've noticed though, that we get bad service because we expect bad service (and the idiotic phrase "he's not paid enough to care", I say he's paid we too much then, welfare perhaps would be about right). We quiety take it, and go on our way, sending the message that we like it, if more people raised a stink, it might improve, or at least corporations might at least realize that it matters.
As for the poor minimum wage kids serving me, tough. I hope they get fired. If making a burger is above their skillset, then they really don't deserve much sympathy.
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Sounds like Jean Baudrillard's take to:
From this article from Baudrillard. Granted I'm not sure how much I agree, but I think the art as "funtionless" arguement is wholly a new idea springing only from the early part of the 20th century. We still recognize great arcitechture as art, such as the Golden Gate Bridge, the Chrystler building, Notre Dame, and part of the beauty of these lies in their functionality. Granted I also see some industrial design as art, such as the style of the iPod and the OS X interface, as packaging simplicity into a complicated form.
I think art is a pinched definition. If we claim art is "functionless" can't we claim that art's purpose or function then is to be "functionless", defeating its own definition. Art is purpose driven, it exists to do something. In the end it may just be "art is what our culture collectivly calls art"
DNF as a dada statement of the beauty of the opposite of being? Aesthetics via negation?
I think there has been some attempt at art, though. Katamari (however its spelled), for example contained a surrealistic simplicity. A game like Killer 7 had potential of being very much art (narrative and style), but sadly it was limited by its format somewhat, if it was a move, though, it would have been a cult hit. Then we have a game like Wind Waker (Zelda) which tries very hard to be artistic.
I think the problem is contextual, right now we can't see them as art, because we live in a time when art is defined by a limited scope of possible mediums. Just like movies back at their advent, they were something to waste time, offer shallow entertainment, but in retrospect we can call some of them art. Granted recognition will only be granted to >1% of the titles out there now, but I can see it happening. How this judgement looks when it comes is a mystery though. Will they be art-as-engineering (the Golden Gate bridge, Chrystler building), art as in movies, or books? A weird combo of the three?
I had to, lucky for them XP doesn't support RAR format, ditto with the automatic compression handling on OS X (where I need an app for tar, bzip, and sit). Oddly, the average XP user doesn't actually use .zip files, ever, at least from my experience. The software they do download is generally an installer, and they never worry about compressed packages.
While anecdotal, I say it isn't hurting them, because their still around, producing software.
Same could be said, to a more limited and smaller extent, of cats, sharks, and humans (apes, limited). Life is smaller, but not qualitivly different.
But how do we define intelligence in a non-speciescentric way? Our current definition of intelligence hinges on compairing other examples to ourself. Dolphins are intelligent (by human standard), wherease blue-green algea isn't (by human standards). But both could be defined as intelligent in that they occupy their niche sucessfully, and display the amount of adaptability needed to thrive in said niche. Less sucessful than us, perhaps, but we're generalists.
See the general problem behind defining extra-human intelligence?
Agreed. I remember the hastle of having to install WinRar everytime I did a fresh install of Windows 3.11-98SE (with some NT line in there, but ignored for simplicity). Did XP (or OS X 10.whatnot) handling zip internally files really hurt the compression market? No, but it was a boon to consumers, simplifying things signifigantly, even if it was stepping on some toes. The OS producer (listen up Linux devs!) should be more worried about making the OS as complete as humanly possible, and this includes including features supporting commonly used operations. This now includes scanning for viruses and burning DVDs. This doesn't really hurt the market, since these features are less complex and complete than a stand-alone 3rd-party solution. Even if XP could handle .zip, I still had WinRar, even even OS X (my beast of choice, today) can burn CDs and DVDs, I still use Toast, it has more advanced features. Granted for simple jobs the 3rd party app might be ignored, but it will always serve for more robust features. I'm sure a scanner supplied by MS will fill the need of some segment of the population (those novices who don't even know what a virus is, nor how to find a 3rd party app and keep it updated), more advanced people will rankle under the necissary simplicity. Same for a DVD burning app, it will offer basic functionality, but for more advanced tasks ROXIO or Nero will be needed.
Using OS X as an example, how many people use Quicktime (bundled) as their primary media viewer? Most of the people (who are more advanced in their usage) use VLC or mPlayer, since it supports more codecs, and formats, and allows you to do much more sophisticated tasks.
Take Notepad out of XP, it infringes upon the text editor market!
As the rare objective Mac user, I must agree. My years of experience with XP Pro and 2000 were not really negative on the OS side, stability wise. My XP was capable of 3 months of uptime, generally, which is better than my record running OS X (reboots due to patches mostly, but a couple of nasty OS crashes), and this is with pretty heavy computing. Lots of program crashes, but very few BSoDs.
Granted the maintenense got rather heavy, with spyware sweeps, and weekly anti-viral fests. That and hardware problems, which one cannot really blame MS for.
One acronym: MUDs. A good MUD pulled off the full MMOPRG experience, with story, character interaction, grinding, etc... All within a pure text enviroment. These are why I put off playing modern MMOs (starting with UO), because I realized that they could eat a large portion of my life. Almost the entirety of the 90's was wasted on killing Fidos. Hell, your not hardcore until you break up with your real girlfreind because she is distracting you from your leveling grind.
I agree and disagree. While the day-to-day content was very much mindless "step and fetch/kill", it does at least have a grand over-arching story, which isn't half bad. I remember finally completeing the Onyxia quest, and having the guards escort me through town, and inviting a massive cloud of newbs to watch the guard slaughter her. I actually had some emotional resonance to that, it made me feel proud. Perhaps this was because I was playing on a RP server, so I had a bit more pathos for my character than I would have on a PVP server.
When I was just wondering around with a friend, we stumbled on the Dark Portal, I didn't even realize it was there. But being a massive fan of the whole Warcraft series, it made me very happy, to actually wonder upon it. since it is the very (virtual) cause to me wasting years of my life on playing Warcraft games, and thus is a somewhat important momument. Same thing with standing before Thrall. The general context of the game is completely imbedded within a good story, even if the daily questing generally isn't (though some of the big threads are pretty good).
I agree though, that some of the game is ruined by the "hardcore" folk, I was generally casual, and much maligned (being one of perhaps 3 feral druids on our server at the time, and wearing pure shadowcraft, cadaverous). And the emphasis on level 60 raiding is rather annoying too, where the game enters the diablo "Barbie" trap, where it becomes all about collecting better outfits, and who has the most spare time to waste. Your behind if you don't have 6 hours to waste on Core runs, and your behind if you want to play your character the way you see fit, and not in some cookie cutter build. The endgame is boring, its more about status than fun.
* There must be a word better suited to this discussion than dexterity, but it eludes me at the moment. ;-)
xterity, for the dextrals and sinistrals.
I read a book about this, forgot the title, so take this with a grain of salt. It turns out that about 60% of lefties (and a signifigant portion of righties) are ambidextrious. I eat left, bowl right, write left, bat right. General rule is that fine gestures are done by the left hand, and more gross gestures are done by the right. No idea why this is, but it seems a general rule in the majority of left-handers. it might be the mental exercise of developing in a right handed world. (School desks... oh lord... don't get me started).
I'm still hunting for a decent multi-button mouse for lefties, but they all are ergonomic for righties. I know MS does offer one if you send away, but I'd rather try it first. The best I could find was the logitech 5 button mouse.
Once upon a time, a long long timw ago there were blocks... Many many blocks, of colors, falling. And well, the great king of Tetrisonia told you, his loyal minion, to... er... rotate them in two dimentions, since Tetrisonia is a suburb of Flatland, so that they form nice little rows, to asuage the kings OCD, and then, and only then will they conveniently disapear thanks to the help of the Dwarves of Makeing Blocks Disapear and Such. But, beware young adventurer, if the blocks reach the oh-so-close heavens, then the great Wizards of the Really Obnoxious Defeat Noise will make a really obnoxious defeat noise, and the game will be over. And you'll die, perhaps, or just continues 3 times until you give up, and fling the magic Gameboy Brick of Doom against a wall.
The End...
This is in that book? I'll pick it up next time I swing past a Borders, it seems interesting. Sorry I can't really comment until I read it, but the scenario you underline seems plausable and interesting.
Sorry, I had my times wrong... It still does not hurt my point that these changes were probably not human caused.
I haven't read it (though I will) so I can't really dispute the premises, but I take most theories of prehistoric human disasters with a grain of salt, since there also exist naturalistic explanations for many of the phenomena now attributed to human causes (mass-extinctions, for example, though the theory of the fall of Greece would be more applicable). It seems that humans, as a whole, really like to blame past problems on themselves if it serves to further modern agendas. In the last couple thousand years we have seen several global climate events of a large magnitude (ice ages, mini-ice-ages, and warming trends) that have had natural causes, and had sever effects on human societies, so my default view on blaming climatic events on humans is generally to say it is naturally caused until a burden of proof shows otherwise. Again, not critiquing your premise, just explaining my position.
Care to cite a source on this? The whole region (the Sahara) was much greener in the past, this is true, but desertification started long before the advent of agriculture, and has been creeping along for the last 30,000 years or so. Egypt, at least as long as it has held civilization, always been mostly desert, which is why the largest population centers there (now, and thoughout history) have been next to the Nile. Also do a brief refresher of Egyption mythology to see the importance of annual Nile flooding for their agriculture thoughout the ages. 60,000 years ago Egypt indeed might have been more grassy than today, or even 30,000 years ago, but it changed previous to the advent of heavy agriculture.
I think Brazil is doing much better ecologically than we are, even if this "risk" to topsoil is real. Top soil can be managed through intelligent farming techniques, it can even be retained and replenished thanks to modern farming technology. Even fertilizers can be used to replenish mineral and nitrogen content of the soil, and while if used unintelligently this can lead to enviromental impacts, this is not a necissary consiquence.
In the end, the enviromental consiquences of ethenol is much much less than using fossil fuel (which, BTW, has nothing to do with dinosaurs, or even prehistoric fauna, it is the result of ancient, but much after dinosaurs, swamps and boglands decaying).
I really don't see how Brazil is destroying their economy. All indicators say that their succesfully applying a socialist model to it, with great results. Granted, their not quite up to "first world" standards, but in light of the region, and history, they're doing great for an progressive emerging economy.
I guess the estate of Hegel should sue, since he used it first. Actually I think it was a common german word in the 18th and 19th centuries, so I guess common language has prior art. It means spirit of the times, which is pretty applicable to both Google's use, and this use.
I'm sorry, I have a way of coming off more extreme than I actually am. I do start off polite, I am a very polite person by default, especially when it comes to underpaid peons since I understand the difficulty (and low reward) for such work, and know that this is many of their starter jobs. So a certain amount of slippage is definately expected and allowed, and beyond that my first reaction is politely bringing it to their attention, and if that fails asking for their manager.
I have had kids flat out refuse to bring the request to their manager, though. Or the manager being an unhelpful and rude asshat. So I see no harm in stepping up the pressure, and making it difficult for them doing business, holding up lines, telling other customers in line whats going on, making damn sure to make life difficult until either my complaint is addressed, or it becomes obvious that the store is run by jabbering 14 year old drop-outs. But the first course of action, politely addresing the situation, generally works.
Cops have never been involved, nor have I ever been banned from an establishment, it never escalates that far, when I reach the top of the chain of command on location, I generally just get everyone's names, and end up following up on it later.
I just don't, as it seems I'm suppoosed to, give up with bad service and go my way. I'm not resigned to it, and don't tolerate it. I don't care who you are, doing your job well is a sign of human worth, and I hold those people to the same standards in which I hold myself, and the same consiquences I would expect for myself.
It is illegal in Arizona too, but the loophole is that you have to pay for the cup generally. I've seen it range from 10c to 25c a cup, which isn't much to us, but for the truly down and out it is enough to limit access. Some stores won't even let the homeless in to ask, if someone "scruffy" is seen entering the door, they are "politely" asked to leave.
I thank you for sharing my unpopular position. I've noticed more and more how people will just put up with any crap service they get, smile and go on their merry way. I really think that this shows the higher ups that people will tolerate it, and thus can make it part of the model. If you put a cog in it, perhaps it will allow someone to see a serious problem in their service model.
I'm very happy that people think my wanting service somehow translates into "something for nothing". This is not what generally, only when service breaks down in the first place. If I order a burger and fries, and I get a cold fish sandwich, then yes, I want not only my damn burger and fried, but my money back. This seems fair. In the tech-support area I can't think of much that would compare right now, but I'm not asking for a free month of... whatnot. I want to be treated as a human being, and not some boreing gnat that you have to deal with daily by force, I want it to at least seem that I matter, and my customer experience is important to you, and those who you represent. The free stuff issue should never come up, and I would be happy if it didn't, since it means there there was a serious break of service previous to it.
All I really want out of the service sector is to be treated like a human, and not some necissary variable in the corporate machine.
I used to do the same sort of work, customer service / tech help, and at times I really REALLY wanted to be nasty, but I moslty refrained. (Yes, the people who came of as assholes got treated as such) If you were polite, and attentive, you would never realize that I was an asshole. I try my damnest to give what I get. Good service and I'm calling up the chain of command to commend you, in resturants leaving a massive tip, you get the point.
Weak? What does weakness have to do with it? Its not like I'm on some Neitzchean kick or something. I don't have sympathy for the stupid, correct. I can't stand bad service, correct. I can't stand apathetic teenager who are too... whatever... to do their jobs. If you have a task you should do it well, period. I guess I am an asshole for having expectations that I hold people to. Though, then again, perhaps if other people had expectations the world would be a better place.
I am all about sympathy to those who deserve it. Lets say we have two homeless people, though... One who got layed off, is crippled from debt, etc... Him I will go out of my way to help. Say we have another one, who just decided that crack was fun, and is too lazy to work, him deserves nothing but what he decided to get. Same goes with the service industries, if you treat me like a human and do your job within the conventional bounds of rightness and wrongness your fine, and I'll try to make your life easier. If your a drooling dolt who is inattentive to his job, or treats corporate policies as an excuse not to care, then I really don't care.
This is exactly what I meant, reguardless of troll mod. though if the policy, such as in the story, is completely idiotic, then I will be (as some insightful slashbot called me) an asshole up the chain of command. I really don't think that underlings are quite clear from blaim in bad policy.
The other day I ws talking to a coffee slinger in Phoenix about the homeless, and he told me that he is not allowed to give them water for free, even when it is 113 degrees outside, but does so anyways, even when this can cost him his job. This goes to show that people can be decent, it throws light on all the people being asses for "just doing their job", there is a choice, and at times it is their responsibility to make the right thing happen.
Also, as above, there is some reluctance for the underlings to let complaints go up the chain of command.
Falling Down comes to mind, what does it hurt to sarve breakfast to someone 5 minutes late, even if it is against some idiotic policy?
I like to fume at bad service, for several reasons...
A) I generally get my way, and get the service for free.
B) I cause a stoppage in the smooth flow of business by holding up line, getting supervisors, managers etc...
C) Hopefully I do in front of as many customers as possible, to cause the most possible discomfort in the highschool drop out serving me, and his buinsess college dropout boss.
I've noticed though, that we get bad service because we expect bad service (and the idiotic phrase "he's not paid enough to care", I say he's paid we too much then, welfare perhaps would be about right). We quiety take it, and go on our way, sending the message that we like it, if more people raised a stink, it might improve, or at least corporations might at least realize that it matters.
As for the poor minimum wage kids serving me, tough. I hope they get fired. If making a burger is above their skillset, then they really don't deserve much sympathy.