I'll try, but I get WAY out of my league when you talk about anything bigger than n=3.
n represents dimensions. i.e. n=1 is one dimension, n=2 is two dimensions, n=3 is three dimensions, etc.
"simply connected" just means that the boundary surrounding something is connected. For example, in n=2 space (a piece of paper for example), if you drew a line around a bunch of ants, and connected the ends, it would be simply connected. If your line was actually two lines, and weren't connected (you had two groups of ants) then you have a multiply connected boundary.
A manifold (sorry, had to use it) is just an object without a boundary. The earth is a manifold, as is any other n=3 space (3d) object that is connected to itself. In n=3 space, the only way you can have a boundary is to have two different objects, in two different locations.
Homeomorphic just means one object is like another.
They generalize the whole idea to one where all the objects are compact. That just means that the objects "surface" area is as small as it can get for a given internal volume. For example in n=3 space, you can minimize an area (like the material of a balloon) in relation to the volume inside (the helium). Circles are compact for n=2 space, and spheres are compact for n=3 space. BTW, even though I state this as if it were a fact, we don't know about all the compact spaces where n > 2. It would *seem* to make sense that a sphere is the only compact object to 3 space, but stating that as a truth, as of today, isn't possible. Maybe we can do that after they win their million bucks....
So, the whole thing boils down to showing that a compact 3d object is the same as a sphere.
Grub uses names of insects (bugs if you will) to name its computers. Among some of the names are, ant, roach, termite, muva (macedonian for fly), beetle, brainbug (ok that's not a bug, but you get it).
Naming your computers something fun should be a requirement!
There's a big difference. We here at grub.org have been working on a distributed crawler, who's whole purpose is to crawl the net AND crawl local content with the sole purpose of looking for changed content, compressing it, and sending it back to us. We've also put together a hacked up install of MnogoSearch on our site (see here), that indexes what we we get back from our crawlers. (Please keep in mind that we flush the Mnogo database fairly often right now if you look.)
Even though we don't crawl beans compared to Altavista, Mnogo still chokes up at just under a million URL inserts a day (at it's best), and that's a problem because we are already crawling 3x that, and have a new client ready for release that does 3x the crawling what the old one did. The short of it is that a single Mnogo INDEXER can't keep up with our CRAWLERS by an order of magnitude.
Knowing all this makes me wonder which problem Altavista is experiencing. Or maybe it's something entirely different holding them up. On the crawling side, if they are only crawling every 60 days, and have 600 million URLs in the database, then they are crawling 10 million URLs a day. If you crawl 10 million a day, at 15K a piece, then you are using about 15Mbps of bandwidth, which surely they have, right?
On the indexing side, not all your pages will update every time you visit them, which means you can just index the ones that changed. We see an update rate of about 60% (the new client shows this to the user, BTW) on pages that we crawled a few weeks ago. Given that they needed to insert/reinsert those pages, their database/engine would need to insert about 500 words per page, or 3 billion inserts a day total for all the pages that they indexed. Keep in mind that they may not be able to delete words located on a particular URL, because you'd need an index on URLs on the word table which can slow things down and get REALLY big.
If it's a crawling problem, then I suggest calling us.;) If it's a matter of deletes/inserts, then I guarantee that their reworking their schema right about now.
I'd really hate to see Altavista go, they were my first choice until Google came along and started kicking ass.
Actually I have a couple of puny little 2500s and no contract and they still helped me with an IOS bug a year after I purchased them - eventually giving me a free upgrade of the IOS. If for ANY reason (IOS/hardware) a Cisco is having problems I guarantee that Cisco will help you.
About a year and a half ago I bought a used 3600 and then found out via Cisco tech support that that particular run of 3600s had a hardware bug and they RMA'd the damn thing, shipping me a BRAND NEW unit before I returned the other one. Past that, I called later with a problem of my own causing, and they still had a couple of their techs help me out.
All in all, Cisco does a great job of supporting their hardware.
Kicking out editors has nothing to do with this argument. The point is that if you lose enough of your editors, and you are TOTALLY dependent on them to maintain your database (like dmoz is), there's not hope in hell that you'll make it.
dmoz, much like us, is reliant on its contributers to build its directory. Without the contributer's/editor's/client's blessing, and continual contributions, you have a database that is pretty much worthless. Gracenote has a bigger advantage than dmoz or grub.org does over its users/contributers in that it has already built the bulk of its database, and only needs occasional updates to it to keep it current.
Someone like
Musicbrainz could just as easily restrict access to their database at a later date, even though it's currently licensed under OpenContent. (I really doubt they would do this, BTW).
Look, if Netscape chose to screw the community by closing or limiting access to the database, it would surley piss off the editors which would then be cause them to stop doing submissions. No submissions = No database. I suspect that projects like dmoz and grub, who rely on a constant influx of information to stay current, will be kept honest by default That said, I think that dmoz has taken a step in the right direction trying to address these issues.
First off, we didn't expect to get Slashdotted so fast. We really
weren't ready, but we do appreciate the attention that it has brought.
I'd like to address some of the issues that you guys have brought up because
they ARE important to us. After all, you are (hopefully)running
the client and we do care about what you think.
OK, about the money thing. A few of you are blasting us for trying
to make a buck off this idea. Last time I looked, it takes money
to pay for servers, bandwidth and programmers! We didn't start
this thing with the intention of ripping people off - we did it because
current search engine crawling technology is behind the times and we thought
we could fix it. Don't fault us for having a revenue model and a
desire to build a solid company that feeds us.
A LOT of you guys could benefit from having your web pages continuously
indexed. It would help your customers AND it possible could increase
the quality of service you provide. Besides, we aren't proposing
to charge you for this service if you help out by running the client -
that would defeat the purpose of the whole project.
Don't you already pay for bandwidth that gets used up by Google, or
even Excite? What's the difference if we use it instead, and it possible
works better for you in the end?
About the bootloader thing. Sorry about that guys, I didn't realize
there was an Open Source project named Grub until we had the cards printed,
domain registered, incorporated and had the plaque on the door. I've
fielded a few emails about Grub (the bootloader) and we try to get them
pointed in the right direction. BTW, we don't have anything
to do with grub.com either
About the security problems. We have thought about this and do
have a solution proposed (though not implemented). We are planning
on scheduling the same URLs out to multiple clients, in much the same way
that SETI@Home does. If we get bogus results back from a particular
client, then we'll know fairly quickly that someone is pulling a fast one
on us. There are a few other things we can do, but it will take time
to implement them.
About the database. We really don't know about licensing the thing.
Any comments or suggestions are MORE than welcome. We would like
to leave it open for anyone to use or query, but charge LARGE corporations
(like Google) for accessing LARGE bits of it.
Give us some ideas on what you would like to see us do and we'll listen.
We aren't planning are charging just anyone for this service. If you want to be indexed on a regular basis, then you'll have to pay for it. If you run the Grub client, you don't have to pay, nor does anyone else that you want to list. We realize that you are giving up bandwidth for the project and we plan on making good to those that do run it.
I've been on IRC for years and all sorts of stuff trades hands there. Anything from MP3s, pictures, and warez can be had in plenty. The problem with IRC has always been that it's too damn hard to figure out how to get that stuff - at least for the casual user.
Interfaces that rely on IRC (and DCC), make it easier for the average Joe to use.
Over on O'Reilly's site I noticed Dave Sims discussing whether or not distributed computing software should be considered the same as P2P software. I have to agree with him somewhat on this issue as the project that I'm working on right now is not exactly 100% P2P (in fact some argue is 0% P2P). However, I think it's important to understand that a lot of the same framework has to been coded up in either P2P or distributed computing products, and maybe that's justification enough to mix the terms.
Is your canidate HOT? Or not?
on
Quickie Twister
·
· Score: 1
Looks like the preliminary "amihotornot?" election results are favoring Al Gore.
Gore has a strong lead, and at this time is ranked a solid 4.3, hotter than a lot of the other guys on the site.
Bush is not so fortunate, being at the bottom of the pack at 1.5.
I've had the chance to research a lot of db systems lately and although I love MySQL, no row locking and the lack of transactions is a drawback. I'm thrilled that they will now support it, but in the meantime you might want to check out Frontbase. They really have it going on (just got vc money too) and they have been SUPER helpful in answering our questions.
Realtime, distributed indexing of the Internet. Coming soon!
Because there is *very* little coding going on with Interbase right now. The amount of support provided is quite a bit less than MySQL, which makes it harder for people just getting started with db system.
<p>
Kord
I own a small ISP and the only "hub" that we have is actually a switch. Something that you guys might be missing is, that in order for Carnivore to work, it has to be on the same network segment as the machine who you are trying to monitor. In the case of a dialup user, this could be any on of 20 terminal (ppp) servers. (on my network at least)
If the FBI wanted to monitor one of our customers, they would have to put the RADIUS server, the mail server, the proxy server AND all our routers on the same network segment. The reason that we run a switch is because we were getting network resets on a normal 100Base-T hub. Running a switch eliminates that problem and
if we were *forced* to put them back on a hub, it would definately cause us some greif.
What I'm wondering is how the FBI handles making these ISPs do what I'm describing? How do the bigger ISPs deal with having to put all their machines on the same network segment? I realize that some ISPs may be running fiber, but even still, not switching the main parts of your network can cause huge problems in performance. How far is the FBI prepared to go to monitor a particular user?
Distributed, real-time indexing of the Internet. Coming soon!
Our company, grub.org, is writing a distibuted web crawler.
The project is a cross between a peer-to-peer client network and a centralized server network. Clients use their resources to enable crawling the Internet and then report back to a central server which will serve up searches for the public. Web administrators will want to run the client to enable auto indexing of the sites they host on their servers.
We should have a client ready sometime in November, so be sure to check back with us then.
I bought a Palm several years ago and now, when I go look at new ones, the display *still* looks the same. What I don't need is a clumsy phone based on a Palm with a poor display in it. I wan't COLOR damnit! (and not that cheesy, hot in my hand, poor exuse for a PDA that the palm color is) I want an ethernet cardd! I want a hard drive!
I've got all that and more in my Cassiopeia. Now if those guys would just hurry up with Linux for it....
My company has been doing a lot of research on drive storage solutions and we've looked at what Maxtor has to offer.
We've considered rolling our own solution by purchasing the new 80G Maxtor drives and plunking them into a rack mountable
server case, which is about 2x as tall as Maxtor's solution.
It would be around $1800 for (6) 80G drives, $450 for the rack and then another $550 for memory, motherboard, extra controller and processor. The total amount would be about $2800 for 480G of unRAIDed drive storage or 320G of RAIDed storage. That works out to either $5.83 a Gig for unRAIDed or $8.75 a Gig for RAIDed.
That's less than 2/3 the cost of Maxtor's solution and you can run your choice of OS and network file system.
Some of you guys have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about. Your rights when you deal with a company are often times the same as theirs. If they don't want to do business with you, then they can cut you loose - if the contract allows it. The majority of my customers are on a month-to-month agreement and if I want to cancel one for screwing up (whether actively or passively) then I reserve the right to yank their account.
To address the particular situation, I would have canceled the account to save the ISP. The author mentions a parallel to refusing business to a African American, but that is a flawed comparision. Just imagine if you had a nudist show up in Wal-Mart - who wouldn't throw him out for disrupting the *normal* flow of business?
The point here is that the attacks cause a disruption of service that affected (probably) thousands of accounts. As most of us know, DDoS attacks can't be stopped short of calling your upstream provider and begging them to filter them out. The logical thing to do is to cancel the account in question until things quiet down.
If any one of you idiots, who think the ISP didn't do the right thing, owned a business that fed you and provided a roof over your head, you'd know what I was talking about.
Unless you have an alternate solution (besides the lame one about calling the FBI) then I suggest you shut the hell up.
I vote they suck. I own an ISP and about a year ago got blocked by ORBS for running a mail server that allowed mail throughs. I upgraded the server, shut off access to the outside world for mailing through us and report said event to ORBS. ORBS kindly removed my name from their list and everyone was happy. Two months later, a dedicated customer of mine got stuck on the list AND my mail server got stuck on there again but this time as a relay for THEM! Needless to say, the customer was running a crappy mail server on an even crappier O/S (insert best guess here) and I had to block him to get myself off ORBS. Turns out the customer had the logs from the whopping 1000 emails that had run through his site (in the past 4 months) and we discovered what appeared to be "fishs" for a mail through situation on his server and they originated from a site on ORBS. Now they say they don't scan for mail through servers, but this evidence seems to say otherwise. It's my opinion that they will do and say anything it takes to support their cause, which isn't fair to everyone involved.
Slashdot Mirror
You can assume the best thing to rid yourself of those pesky demons would be to login and run:
/
chmod -R 777
Be sure to email me your IP address and I'll put you up on my holey server site.
Kord
Shameless plug, check out Grub!
I'll try, but I get WAY out of my league when you talk about anything bigger than n=3.
n represents dimensions. i.e. n=1 is one dimension, n=2 is two dimensions, n=3 is three dimensions, etc.
"simply connected" just means that the boundary surrounding something is connected. For example, in n=2 space (a piece of paper for example), if you drew a line around a bunch of ants, and connected the ends, it would be simply connected. If your line was actually two lines, and weren't connected (you had two groups of ants) then you have a multiply connected boundary.
A manifold (sorry, had to use it) is just an object without a boundary. The earth is a manifold, as is any other n=3 space (3d) object that is connected to itself. In n=3 space, the only way you can have a boundary is to have two different objects, in two different locations.
Homeomorphic just means one object is like another.
They generalize the whole idea to one where all the objects are compact. That just means that the objects "surface" area is as small as it can get for a given internal volume. For example in n=3 space, you can minimize an area (like the material of a balloon) in relation to the volume inside (the helium). Circles are compact for n=2 space, and spheres are compact for n=3 space. BTW, even though I state this as if it were a fact, we don't know about all the compact spaces where n > 2. It would *seem* to make sense that a sphere is the only compact object to 3 space, but stating that as a truth, as of today, isn't possible. Maybe we can do that after they win their million bucks....
So, the whole thing boils down to showing that a compact 3d object is the same as a sphere.
Kord
Shameless plug, check out Grub!
Grub uses names of insects (bugs if you will) to name its computers. Among some of the names are, ant, roach, termite, muva (macedonian for fly), beetle, brainbug (ok that's not a bug, but you get it).
Naming your computers something fun should be a requirement!
Shameless plug, check out Grub!
"This also makes it a lot safer to work with, i.e. you won't burn your eyes out if you accidently look into it."
It looks as if the author has learned this first hand if the font size on the instructions is any indication.
Check out Grub!
There's a big difference. We here at grub.org have been working on a distributed crawler, who's whole purpose is to crawl the net AND crawl local content with the sole purpose of looking for changed content, compressing it, and sending it back to us. We've also put together a hacked up install of MnogoSearch on our site (see here), that indexes what we we get back from our crawlers. (Please keep in mind that we flush the Mnogo database fairly often right now if you look.)
;) If it's a matter of deletes/inserts, then I guarantee that their reworking their schema right about now.
Even though we don't crawl beans compared to Altavista, Mnogo still chokes up at just under a million URL inserts a day (at it's best), and that's a problem because we are already crawling 3x that, and have a new client ready for release that does 3x the crawling what the old one did. The short of it is that a single Mnogo INDEXER can't keep up with our CRAWLERS by an order of magnitude.
Knowing all this makes me wonder which problem Altavista is experiencing. Or maybe it's something entirely different holding them up. On the crawling side, if they are only crawling every 60 days, and have 600 million URLs in the database, then they are crawling 10 million URLs a day. If you crawl 10 million a day, at 15K a piece, then you are using about 15Mbps of bandwidth, which surely they have, right?
On the indexing side, not all your pages will update every time you visit them, which means you can just index the ones that changed. We see an update rate of about 60% (the new client shows this to the user, BTW) on pages that we crawled a few weeks ago. Given that they needed to insert/reinsert those pages, their database/engine would need to insert about 500 words per page, or 3 billion inserts a day total for all the pages that they indexed. Keep in mind that they may not be able to delete words located on a particular URL, because you'd need an index on URLs on the word table which can slow things down and get REALLY big.
If it's a crawling problem, then I suggest calling us.
I'd really hate to see Altavista go, they were my first choice until Google came along and started kicking ass.
Shamless plug, check out Grub!
Actually I have a couple of puny little 2500s and no contract and they still helped me with an IOS bug a year after I purchased them - eventually giving me a free upgrade of the IOS. If for ANY reason (IOS/hardware) a Cisco is having problems I guarantee that Cisco will help you.
About a year and a half ago I bought a used 3600 and then found out via Cisco tech support that that particular run of 3600s had a hardware bug and they RMA'd the damn thing, shipping me a BRAND NEW unit before I returned the other one. Past that, I called later with a problem of my own causing, and they still had a couple of their techs help me out.
All in all, Cisco does a great job of supporting their hardware.
Shamless plug: Check out Grub!
Kicking out editors has nothing to do with this argument. The point is that if you lose enough of your editors, and you are TOTALLY dependent on them to maintain your database (like dmoz is), there's not hope in hell that you'll make it.
dmoz, much like us, is reliant on its contributers to build its directory. Without the contributer's/editor's/client's blessing, and continual contributions, you have a database that is pretty much worthless. Gracenote has a bigger advantage than dmoz or grub.org does over its users/contributers in that it has already built the bulk of its database, and only needs occasional updates to it to keep it current.
Someone like Musicbrainz could just as easily restrict access to their database at a later date, even though it's currently licensed under OpenContent. (I really doubt they would do this, BTW).
Look, if Netscape chose to screw the community by closing or limiting access to the database, it would surley piss off the editors which would then be cause them to stop doing submissions. No submissions = No database. I suspect that projects like dmoz and grub, who rely on a constant influx of information to stay current, will be kept honest by default That said, I think that dmoz has taken a step in the right direction trying to address these issues.
Shameless Plug: Check out Grub!
First off, we didn't expect to get Slashdotted so fast. We really weren't ready, but we do appreciate the attention that it has brought. I'd like to address some of the issues that you guys have brought up because they ARE important to us. After all, you are (hopefully)running the client and we do care about what you think.
OK, about the money thing. A few of you are blasting us for trying to make a buck off this idea. Last time I looked, it takes money to pay for servers, bandwidth and programmers! We didn't start this thing with the intention of ripping people off - we did it because current search engine crawling technology is behind the times and we thought we could fix it. Don't fault us for having a revenue model and a desire to build a solid company that feeds us.
A LOT of you guys could benefit from having your web pages continuously indexed. It would help your customers AND it possible could increase the quality of service you provide. Besides, we aren't proposing to charge you for this service if you help out by running the client - that would defeat the purpose of the whole project.
Don't you already pay for bandwidth that gets used up by Google, or even Excite? What's the difference if we use it instead, and it possible works better for you in the end?
About the bootloader thing. Sorry about that guys, I didn't realize there was an Open Source project named Grub until we had the cards printed, domain registered, incorporated and had the plaque on the door. I've fielded a few emails about Grub (the bootloader) and we try to get them pointed in the right direction. BTW, we don't have anything to do with grub.com either
About the security problems. We have thought about this and do have a solution proposed (though not implemented). We are planning on scheduling the same URLs out to multiple clients, in much the same way that SETI@Home does. If we get bogus results back from a particular client, then we'll know fairly quickly that someone is pulling a fast one on us. There are a few other things we can do, but it will take time to implement them.
About the database. We really don't know about licensing the thing. Any comments or suggestions are MORE than welcome. We would like to leave it open for anyone to use or query, but charge LARGE corporations (like Google) for accessing LARGE bits of it.
Give us some ideas on what you would like to see us do and we'll listen.
Kord
kord@grub.org
We aren't planning are charging just anyone for this service. If you want to be indexed on a regular basis, then you'll have to pay for it. If you run the Grub client, you don't have to pay, nor does anyone else that you want to list. We realize that you are giving up bandwidth for the project and we plan on making good to those that do run it.
More info in my next post.
Kordless
I bet after this, Mountain Dew is going to open a can of whoopass on them for using their name in a way "other than intended". Look out guys!
do
{
write_software(to_block_ads);
advertisers_come_up_with(new_ad_method);
} while (ads_still_exist);
Real-time indexing of the Internet coming soon!
Kord
I've been on IRC for years and all sorts of stuff trades hands there. Anything from MP3s, pictures, and warez can be had in plenty. The problem with IRC has always been that it's too damn hard to figure out how to get that stuff - at least for the casual user.
Interfaces that rely on IRC (and DCC), make it easier for the average Joe to use.
Real-time indexing of the Internet coming soon!
Kord
Kord
Realtime Indexing of the Internet. Coming soon!
Gore has a strong lead, and at this time is ranked a solid 4.3, hotter than a lot of the other guys on the site.
Bush is not so fortunate, being at the bottom of the pack at 1.5.
Realtime, distributed indexing of the Internet. Coming soon!
Kord
Because there is *very* little coding going on with Interbase right now. The amount of support provided is quite a bit less than MySQL, which makes it harder for people just getting started with db system.
<p>
Kord
If the FBI wanted to monitor one of our customers, they would have to put the RADIUS server, the mail server, the proxy server AND all our routers on the same network segment. The reason that we run a switch is because we were getting network resets on a normal 100Base-T hub. Running a switch eliminates that problem and if we were *forced* to put them back on a hub, it would definately cause us some greif.
What I'm wondering is how the FBI handles making these ISPs do what I'm describing? How do the bigger ISPs deal with having to put all their machines on the same network segment? I realize that some ISPs may be running fiber, but even still, not switching the main parts of your network can cause huge problems in performance. How far is the FBI prepared to go to monitor a particular user?
Distributed, real-time indexing of the Internet. Coming soon!
Kord
The project is a cross between a peer-to-peer client network and a centralized server network. Clients use their resources to enable crawling the Internet and then report back to a central server which will serve up searches for the public. Web administrators will want to run the client to enable auto indexing of the sites they host on their servers.
We should have a client ready sometime in November, so be sure to check back with us then.
The site is located at http://www.grub.org
Kord
I bought a Palm several years ago and now, when I go look at new ones, the display *still* looks the same. What I don't need is a clumsy phone based on a Palm with a poor display in it. I wan't COLOR damnit! (and not that cheesy, hot in my hand, poor exuse for a PDA that the palm color is) I want an ethernet cardd! I want a hard drive!
I've got all that and more in my Cassiopeia. Now if those guys would just hurry up with Linux for it....
Go Grub!
Kord Campbell
www.grub.org
I have a picture of Larry dancing (by himself) to the reggae band that was out at the OS convention in Monterey. Pretty funny.
My company has been doing a lot of research on drive storage solutions and we've looked at what Maxtor has to offer. We've considered rolling our own solution by purchasing the new 80G Maxtor drives and plunking them into a rack mountable server case, which is about 2x as tall as Maxtor's solution.
It would be around $1800 for (6) 80G drives, $450 for the rack and then another $550 for memory, motherboard, extra controller and processor. The total amount would be about $2800 for 480G of unRAIDed drive storage or 320G of RAIDed storage. That works out to either $5.83 a Gig for unRAIDed or $8.75 a Gig for RAIDed.
That's less than 2/3 the cost of Maxtor's solution and you can run your choice of OS and network file system.
Kord Campbell
http://www.grub.org
Their site would really rock if they had theses and thoses together in huge database. Kord
Some of you guys have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about. Your rights when you deal with a company are often times the same as theirs. If they don't want to do business with you, then they can cut you loose - if the contract allows it. The majority of my customers are on a month-to-month agreement and if I want to cancel one for screwing up (whether actively or passively) then I reserve the right to yank their account.
To address the particular situation, I would have canceled the account to save the ISP. The author mentions a parallel to refusing business to a African American, but that is a flawed comparision. Just imagine if you had a nudist show up in Wal-Mart - who wouldn't throw him out for disrupting the *normal* flow of business?
The point here is that the attacks cause a disruption of service that affected (probably) thousands of accounts. As most of us know, DDoS attacks can't be stopped short of calling your upstream provider and begging them to filter them out. The logical thing to do is to cancel the account in question until things quiet down.
If any one of you idiots, who think the ISP didn't do the right thing, owned a business that fed you and provided a roof over your head, you'd know what I was talking about.
Unless you have an alternate solution (besides the lame one about calling the FBI) then I suggest you shut the hell up.
Sorry, this just hit a nerve with me.
I vote they suck. I own an ISP and about a year ago got blocked by ORBS for running a mail server that allowed mail throughs. I upgraded the server, shut off access to the outside world for mailing through us and report said event to ORBS. ORBS kindly removed my name from their list and everyone was happy. Two months later, a dedicated customer of mine got stuck on the list AND my mail server got stuck on there again but this time as a relay for THEM! Needless to say, the customer was running a crappy mail server on an even crappier O/S (insert best guess here) and I had to block him to get myself off ORBS. Turns out the customer had the logs from the whopping 1000 emails that had run through his site (in the past 4 months) and we discovered what appeared to be "fishs" for a mail through situation on his server and they originated from a site on ORBS. Now they say they don't scan for mail through servers, but this evidence seems to say otherwise. It's my opinion that they will do and say anything it takes to support their cause, which isn't fair to everyone involved.