Yeah, I give up on you. I *specifically* said that if you have "figured out what the morality actually is" when I said if you believe you are right. The AC did a better job than me dealing with your lack of reading comprehension skills. So just forget I said anything ok?
Dude, do you even *read* my comment before you reply? Jesus. We're talking about a situation where people don't know if the action is illegal or not. There's no rules being broken here. We're talking about a situation where people think it should be ok to report security vulnerabilities but they fear they may get in trouble for it. You're talking about something completely different. Try to keep up with the rest of us.
Yeah, the third kind is this freakin' "middle way" of wishy washy compromise. I'm not a fan. If you think you have a right to do something, do it. If no-one cares, great you set a precedent that others can follow. If someone makes a stink fight. Don't ask permission, and don't go "testing the water" by half doing it. These middle way people, they only get half the job done and end up making it worse for everyone else because they go in timidly, and back off as soon as they hit resistance.
Yeah, for sure. This is what I said. These "misconceptions" are only held by geeks who believe rumours instead of actually bother reading the licenses.
Right, yes, that's a logical conclusion that one. People who are not feared by uncertainty and instead stand up to be counted, those people are vigilantes. Black people sitting at the front of the bus? Damn vigilantes.
Ok, you're the fifth guy to bring this up, so I'll address it. So what? The principle is the same. You're clearly one of these guys who thinks "hell, my wallet only had $5 in it, I might as well not file charges even if they catch the guy who stole it." You're one of these guys that says it is ok for the government to ban extremist groups from marching in the street, cause there's only a small number of people who are extremists. Or that we should pass a DRM law because only a few people really want the kind of access to content that DRM prevents.
I brought up the analogy of sweatshops as something you shouldn't let someone else do if you can help it. It doesn't matter that sweatshops are "more important" to you than DRM is to me. The fact is, Linus says that he really dislikes DRM, and he thinks it hurts people, but he's not willing to do what is in his power to do to stop it.
those that ask *best whiny voice* "Is it ok if I do this? Will I get arrested? Is it illegal to do this?" and those that proudly proclaim "I am doing this and no-one can stop me. If you think you can arrest me for this, YOU ARE WRONG."
The first kind of people contribute nothing to our freedoms. They are crippled by uncertainty and their annoying whining makes people think that, hey, maybe there is something to fear. The second kind of people challenge the norms and make that which was uncertain clearly not illegal. Hey, if they can get away with it, maybe I can too!
You've gotta reinterpret these things to the current revolution. He's already been ostracized by a dictator for failing to uphold the idealism of the mentor, even though the dictator believes even less in the ideals of the mentor. As for being killed? What's the open source equivalent of that? Sued into bankruptcy? Nah, you can be broke and still hold sway over the community. Personally, I think he's gunna end up cracking rocks for some kind of fraud.
They're selling them to people who don't give a shit about DRM. Ya know, short sighted people who think that all you need is to be able to listen to the song on approved players using approved software. As for the rest of your post... once DRM is commonplace the laws will be changed to make illegal any hardware that doesn't enforce it. The RIAA has only tried to have these kinds of laws passed, oh, 5 or 6 times now.
Yeah, there's no other jobs for workers with those skills that have better conditions. But if you improve their skills, or the skills of their children, the sweatshops will go out of business.
Tom Hall, Commander Keen's designer, made it a priority that kids see the consequences of their actions. Killing those evil little robots left their corpses rusting on the platform.
equal access to education. People work in sweatshops not because they are the only jobs available, but because they have no skills with which to compete in the international economy.
You, and most other people who have replied to me, seem to be stuck in this "consume consume consume" mode of culture. No wonder you don't mind DRM, as consumption is the only thing DRM allows.
Even more than just giving him your keys. If you see someone about to drive drunk, take their keys off them. If they won't give up their keys, kick their ass until they do. If they try to hot wire their car so they can drive drunk, kick their ass some more until they pass out. I've lived in California and every single night I went out drinking watched the number of people who drive home drunk from the bars that close at 2am. I can't understand how US culture tolerates that kind of behaviour. A man's right to drive his car home stops the minute he becomes a danger to pedestrians and other drivers. He has no right to drive that car, and you have a moral responsibility to stop him. Coming from Europe I would have thought Linus would have more social responsibility than the drunks in California who let their friends drive drunk, but I bet Linus would be the kind of guy who says "who am I to intervene?"
wtf? People *choose* to work in sweatshops too ya know. Why do they do that? Because their is little choice otherwise. Are you trying to suggest that in the brave new future of DRM'd media we're going to have ample opportunity to buy media that is not DRM'd? What world have you been living in?
"At the same time, on a completely different tangent -- forget about technology -- I am a big believer in letting people do what they want to do. If somebody wants to do DRM it is their problem." Well, no Linus, it's not their problem. It's the user's problem. You're a big believer in letting people do what they want to do.. that's great stuff. Very liberal minded. I'm sure I've said something along those lines myself. Of course, I tend to clarify it with the caveat that what they want to do can't hurt or take away the freedom of others. Is that just an omission on the part of the reporter or do you really believe you have no moral responsibility to intervene when you see someone doing something wrong?
Am I gunna repeat this all day long or what? The license does not authorize derivative works.. copyright law prohibits all distribution that isn't explicitly authorized. It's a license written back in the freakin' 70's ok? The license was written for basically one client and it was adopted by vast numbers of people without legal advice. The license hasn't been upgraded since. Is it really so hard to believe that it has a big fat hole in it?
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Yeah, I give up on you. I *specifically* said that if you have "figured out what the morality actually is" when I said if you believe you are right. The AC did a better job than me dealing with your lack of reading comprehension skills. So just forget I said anything ok?
hey, that's the most sensible thing I've ever read about Linus. Thanks. It all makes sense now.
Doesn't that mean that everyone has a license?
Dude, do you even *read* my comment before you reply? Jesus. We're talking about a situation where people don't know if the action is illegal or not. There's no rules being broken here. We're talking about a situation where people think it should be ok to report security vulnerabilities but they fear they may get in trouble for it. You're talking about something completely different. Try to keep up with the rest of us.
Yeah, the third kind is this freakin' "middle way" of wishy washy compromise. I'm not a fan. If you think you have a right to do something, do it. If no-one cares, great you set a precedent that others can follow. If someone makes a stink fight. Don't ask permission, and don't go "testing the water" by half doing it. These middle way people, they only get half the job done and end up making it worse for everyone else because they go in timidly, and back off as soon as they hit resistance.
Yeah, for sure. This is what I said. These "misconceptions" are only held by geeks who believe rumours instead of actually bother reading the licenses.
If you think I'm a redneck, you haven't met my good friend.
Right, yes, that's a logical conclusion that one. People who are not feared by uncertainty and instead stand up to be counted, those people are vigilantes. Black people sitting at the front of the bus? Damn vigilantes.
Ok, you're the fifth guy to bring this up, so I'll address it. So what? The principle is the same. You're clearly one of these guys who thinks "hell, my wallet only had $5 in it, I might as well not file charges even if they catch the guy who stole it." You're one of these guys that says it is ok for the government to ban extremist groups from marching in the street, cause there's only a small number of people who are extremists. Or that we should pass a DRM law because only a few people really want the kind of access to content that DRM prevents.
I brought up the analogy of sweatshops as something you shouldn't let someone else do if you can help it. It doesn't matter that sweatshops are "more important" to you than DRM is to me. The fact is, Linus says that he really dislikes DRM, and he thinks it hurts people, but he's not willing to do what is in his power to do to stop it.
those that ask *best whiny voice* "Is it ok if I do this? Will I get arrested? Is it illegal to do this?"
and those that proudly proclaim "I am doing this and no-one can stop me. If you think you can arrest me for this, YOU ARE WRONG."
The first kind of people contribute nothing to our freedoms. They are crippled by uncertainty and their annoying whining makes people think that, hey, maybe there is something to fear. The second kind of people challenge the norms and make that which was uncertain clearly not illegal. Hey, if they can get away with it, maybe I can too!
So my advice: stop whining and grow a backbone.
You've gotta reinterpret these things to the current revolution. He's already been ostracized by a dictator for failing to uphold the idealism of the mentor, even though the dictator believes even less in the ideals of the mentor. As for being killed? What's the open source equivalent of that? Sued into bankruptcy? Nah, you can be broke and still hold sway over the community. Personally, I think he's gunna end up cracking rocks for some kind of fraud.
you will be, you will be.
They're selling them to people who don't give a shit about DRM. Ya know, short sighted people who think that all you need is to be able to listen to the song on approved players using approved software. As for the rest of your post... once DRM is commonplace the laws will be changed to make illegal any hardware that doesn't enforce it. The RIAA has only tried to have these kinds of laws passed, oh, 5 or 6 times now.
Yeah, there's no other jobs for workers with those skills that have better conditions. But if you improve their skills, or the skills of their children, the sweatshops will go out of business.
Tom Hall, Commander Keen's designer, made it a priority that kids see the consequences of their actions. Killing those evil little robots left their corpses rusting on the platform.
equal access to education. People work in sweatshops not because they are the only jobs available, but because they have no skills with which to compete in the international economy.
You, and most other people who have replied to me, seem to be stuck in this "consume consume consume" mode of culture. No wonder you don't mind DRM, as consumption is the only thing DRM allows.
Even more than just giving him your keys. If you see someone about to drive drunk, take their keys off them. If they won't give up their keys, kick their ass until they do. If they try to hot wire their car so they can drive drunk, kick their ass some more until they pass out. I've lived in California and every single night I went out drinking watched the number of people who drive home drunk from the bars that close at 2am. I can't understand how US culture tolerates that kind of behaviour. A man's right to drive his car home stops the minute he becomes a danger to pedestrians and other drivers. He has no right to drive that car, and you have a moral responsibility to stop him. Coming from Europe I would have thought Linus would have more social responsibility than the drunks in California who let their friends drive drunk, but I bet Linus would be the kind of guy who says "who am I to intervene?"
Yep, my right to participate fairly in the world culture and a worker's right to participate fairly in the world economy are completely unalike.
wtf? People *choose* to work in sweatshops too ya know. Why do they do that? Because their is little choice otherwise. Are you trying to suggest that in the brave new future of DRM'd media we're going to have ample opportunity to buy media that is not DRM'd? What world have you been living in?
So, ya know, if people want to run sweatshops then that's up to them and no doubt, if people wish to work in sweatshops then that's up to them too.
Having a "moral responsibility to intervene when you see someone doing something wrong" has got nothing whatsoever to do with it.
Grow up.
Is anyone a member of that tribe anymore? ESR is the Trotsky of the open source revolution.
Am I gunna repeat this all day long or what? The license does not authorize derivative works.. copyright law prohibits all distribution that isn't explicitly authorized. It's a license written back in the freakin' 70's ok? The license was written for basically one client and it was adopted by vast numbers of people without legal advice. The license hasn't been upgraded since. Is it really so hard to believe that it has a big fat hole in it?
Ok, so you're saying a derivative work isn't a modification? In that case, the BSD license gives you no right to distribute it.