One descipency I'd like to point out. MS has "had"
Windows NT ported to 4 differnt architectures since release 3.5 and was actually developed on a RISC processor. An intel vintage, I forget the model. From there it's underpinnings where easily moved to Alpha , PPC, and mips. FYI Microsoft STILL does all their Win 64bit development on Alphas even though they dont support it anymore. I've been told by employes at microsoft of labs FULL of XP1000's... Doing nothing but win64.
After I figured out what the price was for.... You should be able to get 1 CS20 per 8 imac 1u's. I didn't realize that was a cluster cost. There's not much informatation on their site saying any different. If dual Alpha's cost that much I would have one instead of my 3 year old 600MHz LX. Allthough a new UP1100 uni-proc board/chip can be had for about $2000. Now for comparable Alpha clusters available "now" you can see for example http://www.microway.com/products/clusters/alpha.ht ml. They have one that hits the Imac price range dead on.
Have you seen API networks new CS20? http://www.api-networks.com/products/cs20.shtml
. Dual 833Mhz/667Mhz processors or a single 833.
. They handle 2GB of RAM.
. built in dual ethernet
. two 64 bit PCI slots each on their own bus
. onboard ultra160 scsi and UDMA 66 IDE
. Many "network aware" features
. able to boot linux from flash rom
. Did I mention Alpha's are 64 bit?
but API's is much faster:-).
http://www.api-networks.com/products/cs20.shtml
Would you like a dual 833MHz ev68 Alpha with each having a 4MB DDR cache? I would.
The best part is these PPC cluster slices cost about the same as a CS20 (like a UP2000) but the CS20 (otherwise known as 'shark')is a dual processor system!!!!
Also the CS20's boot linux from the flash rom and have neat little network enhancments that makes deploying them easy as turning them on.
They're kidding right? Everyone where I work
has a cell phone. Top of the line samsung and we dont pay a dime. Otherwise you'd be burdened with making weekly expense reports etc etc. Why doesnt your company just pay for the thing?
If "open source" (what ever their definition of it is this week) is what Sun has to say to get folks attention then hell thats what they'll do. An "open source" java from Sun means nothing without Java itself being submited to a standards body like ANSI. More lip service from Sun's marketing to make them look like the nice guys while they plan their next points of attack against MS and the Linux/Unix world.
Traditionally the problem with the Nvidia cards was that it's video bios made some 32bit calls that wernt supported by the x86 bios emulator in SRM. Since SRM-5.8 has been released this problem has since been fixed. So the "only" thing holding back Nvidia support in X/DRI is for some folks to work on it's Xserver. FYI with regards to 3D acceleration DRI does work on Alpha now with the Voodoo 3. Glide3 has also been ported to 64bit and works. --
www.alphalinux.org
WTF is up with the attitude? yes at one time Alpha documentation was scattered far and wide. Now that alphalinux.org exists you can find it all in one place including all the mailing lists for all the distros, searchable too. With regards to your fdisk question Rh-6.2's disk druid creates BSD disklabels for you AUTOMATICLY. Only for those who have harddrives that are misreporting their size or some other strange reason you have to use fdisk.Look at the SRM howto and learn howto BSD label disks properly and you're on your way.
maybe you didnt find the answer in the documentation but what you didnt do was ASK us a question in which i'd be more than happy to help.
And if their is a problem with the documentation nothing is going to be fixed until someone TELLS us.
Judging the entire Alpha line of boxen by it's first incarnation (the jensen) is not a fair comparision. Jensens are totally different from any other Alpha. It's the equivilent of a 286 in terms of age. There is a great step by step howto on installing RH on a Jensen at alphalinux.org, it was just updated recently for use with aboot-0.7 and all supporting files updated as well. http://www.alphalinux.org/docs/jensen.shtml .
All other Alphas (except maybe ruffian) are a breeze to install linux on and the documentation is plentiful.
After it's done installing windows it boots up in a sort of "safe mode" so OEM's can load drivers etc. There's alittle pop up window that always comes up that says "when you're ready to shutdown for good yadada, press this button" and that what change a registry key entry (if forget which) so next time the machine came up for a first time user.
Now what if you hit that button by accident? well in win 98 (not SE) you press CTL+ALT+F(2?) and that would get you back in to the OEM stage. In SE you have to do some wierd ass registry hack so it resets itself. It was so time consuming and aggrivating to do we'd rather reload the drive.
for the curious of how this exactly works visit.
oem.microsoft.com . You'll need to create yourself an account but once in you'll have access to all sorts of goodies. This is 'supposed' to be for OEM's and VAR's only but they cant verify it soooo...:-)
you need to register here first to get in,
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/
I worked for a small shop that used 'ghost'
extensivly. We also had OEM preload disks that we customized so that windows install was totally non-interactive. The bulk of the time was spent by the CD copying the CAB files to the harddrive. So what we did is once our preload disk copied all it's cab files and its about to reboot we stop it there and clone the disk. Now turn the machine back on and the harddrive boots into the scripted windows installer. After the OEM audit stage the machine is shutdown awaiting for the customer to turn it on for the first time and enter their license info. Is there anything wrong with this?
Not from my point of view. I could understand if MS was pissed off because shops where cloning disks that allready have been registered. Otherwise what's their problem?
This is the reason why you won't see a socketed Alpha. Because of all the signaling they require it just generates way too much noise to be a socketed chip. Hence the Slot B cartridge which handles this issue nicely. Seems Intel is finding this out for the first time:-) I would be wary of any socketed PIV or Merced.
Oh come now.... Aren't we jumping ship a but early now? I don't know about the rest of you folks but I can't 'twitch' nearly as fast as I used to and i'm only 21. That means I don't play Q3 anymore.
Truth be told I'd rather play AD&D but who has the time?
I can't believe the writer is telling me that ALL
americans regardless of age love shooters over RPG's. He's obviously reffering to the 12-25 group. I know older folks how play computer games
and very few of them can play something like decent or quake.
There is no plauge sweeping the nation because we are all immoral bastards. Folks are getting lazier,plan and simple.
You have now spoon feed TV, internet on demand, and an abundance of engaging video games. No wonder why some people who aren't the most self motivated people in the world get sucked into this void of being a vegetable.
You wanna blame someone? Blame the parents for not kicking their kid off the playstation and giving them an alternative like oh I don't know. Sports, Hanging out with friends, A JOB, and so on.
The new UP1100 comsumes a whopping 90W board and CPU.This board has a CPU soldered in not to mention on board DE500 ethernet and sound (ali/trident). And you don't have to drill holes in your case to use it;-). Alphas are going to comsume less power once they start fabbing in 0.18 micron. Thats gonna happen soon and with that will come an increase in speed.
Alpha engineers may not be interested in power comsumption as their number one priorty but when you consider the present offerings for Alpha chips for what they consume for power is a good deal. It aint no PowerPC but it's no Merced either;-).
Sounds like is has 4 "goal posts" (Like slot B boards do)that go through the board and bolt into the other side of the case. Guys you don't "have" to buy a new case. just drill out the holes. That saves you a case though now it seems you're going to need a new PS and oh it's gotta to be one of the Intel certified PS's or it may not work right.
I find it ironic that Intel's are consuming more
power and more space as they increase in speed.
While Alphas on the otherhand are consuming less
power and getting smaller as they increse in speed. Anyone seeing a trend here?
I'd like to see one of these thing fit in a 1U rack and stay cool. Nevermind a merced.
with a million dollars? Good lord. They could
have made a UP2000 cluster with hundreds of machines doing the same job a whole hell
of alot faster. Better yet they could do the
same job as the SGI big iron could at a much
cheaper price. It shows that you use what you're used too... --
www.alphalinux.org
I've followed inferno for quite some time hoping lucent would do something with it. Now that source code is somewhat available I'll get the chance play fiddle with this on Alpha. Groovy -- www.alphalinux.org
I don't think thats ever going to happen and I'll give you one good reason. Tru64 has the BEST clustering/failover technology ever developed and it's been around the longest in that area as well. It inherited these capibilites from you guessed it , OpenVMS. Also Linux compatibilty could be achieved by porting glibc to Tru64. Then AlphaLinux binaries would be able to run on Tru64 with 0 modifications. -- www.alphalinux.org
Compaq has never released FX!32 for AlphaLinux to date. There is em86 which runs intellinux binaries in full emulation but it's nothing at all like FX!32 and no where near as fast. Q has ported spike to AlphaLinux. Maybe FX!32 is next? -- www.alphalinux.org
// Damn I wish these comment boxes were wider, I hate HTML
>>Microsoft never ported MS Office to Alpha.
Not entirely true. They ported Word and Excel ( i have the CD's). Corel ported all of wordperfect suite 8 to Alpha/NT (minus netscape and that mail center thingge)
>>On Linux, there is a severe paucity of >>"commercial" applications for Alpha, and some of >>the critical applications for "desktop" use are not available.
Well we dont have staroffice but we DO have applixware. Anyways I do most of my work with opensource tools.
>>Notably, Netscape is not readily available. (I know that the Digital UNIX version can be hacked into submission,but it is not an easy rpm -i netscape.rpm away...)
actually yeah it is as easy as RPM -ivh . Look on the Redhat-6.2 CD. Tru64-compat-1.0-3.alpha.rpm netscape-common-4.72-1.alpha.rpm netscape-navigator-4.72-1.alpha.rpm netscape-communicator-4.72-1.alpha.rpm
and Java works too.
>>On the server side, Oracle for Linux is not available. Ditto for Informix, Sybase, DB/2,...
So does that mean I can't use Postgresql or MySQL? Oracle and company will port when the time is right.
>More critically, Linux/Alpha is a considerably more "brittle" platform than Linux/IA-32.
Do you mean unstable? hardly the case.
>>Linux may not be the rats-nest of spectacularly nonportable software that Windows NT is, but getting things like KDE, GNOME, GIMP, and such has been a fairly slow process. Hardware compatibility lists are similarly "brittle."
KDE runs excellently on Alphalinux and so has the GIMP since the RH-5.x days. GNOME works reasonably well. What hardware support is so lacking? There is support for a few RAID cards, nearly every SCSI and network card out there.
>>I've tried running the Diamond Rio package, rio on my Alpha box; it gets quite confused, probably due to some 32-bit-ism in the "driver."
Packages can't be fixed if you don't tell anyone that they are broken.
>> More critical is the paucity of graphics cards supported by XFree86 on Alpha. It is probably similar for other 64 bit platforms; you're restricted to whatever there are "open" drivers for, and there are some cards (Cirrus comes to mind) that have architectures that are distinctly unfriendly to 64 bit operations.
That's strange... I don't know how my Voodoo 3000 works then with XFree-4.0. Nevermind the 3dfx framebuffer and ggi. Which is very fast BTW. The only thing Alpha is missing out on right now is hardware accelerated graphics drivers on the newest cards and thats being worked on now.
>>All of this adds up to Alpha not being a particularly consumer-friendly platform. People that "just want it to work" will find it somewhat challenging in this regard.
If thats true then Sparc and SGI are just as "consumer-unfriendly platform". 64 bit computing at the time when windows NT was on Alpha was never meant to be a home PC but a high performance workstation. What people are you referring to?
>>This is presently the case for Linux/Alpha; it was the case for Windows NT/Alpha. Absolutley not. More hardware and software is supported by Alphalinux than NT ever had. Also the community and commercial support greater than NT ever had...
>>The same will likely be true for IA-64, for a goodly while, by the way. The pains that Alpha has had may help IA-64 porting efforts to be less painful, but what "cramps" persist are likely to be irritants to adopters of IA-64.
at first yes but with the influx of 64 bit developers and commercial interest will make those growing pains short and sweet.
>>In short, I don't think this was a likely niche, except amongst "daft hobbyists," which doesn't represent all that "nice" a niche...
Thats rude. I know alot of UNIX admins and MCSE's that say the same thing about Linux in general. I apologize that most people who use Alphas have no choice but to use the fastest and most mature 64 bit platform out there to get their WORK done.
Slashdot Mirror
One descipency I'd like to point out. MS has "had"
Windows NT ported to 4 differnt architectures since release 3.5 and was actually developed on a RISC processor. An intel vintage, I forget the model. From there it's underpinnings where easily moved to Alpha , PPC, and mips. FYI Microsoft STILL does all their Win 64bit development on Alphas even though they dont support it anymore. I've been told by employes at microsoft of labs FULL of XP1000's... Doing nothing but win64.
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
http://www.linuxalpha.compaq.com/sourceforge/proje ct/?group_id=6
Digital Video capture over IEEE on Alpha.
--
www.alphalinux.org
There's always maple.
--
www.alphalinux.org
After I figured out what the price was for.... You should be able to get 1 CS20 per 8 imac 1u's. I didn't realize that was a cluster cost. There's not much informatation on their site saying any different. If dual Alpha's cost that much I would have one instead of my 3 year old 600MHz LX. Allthough a new UP1100 uni-proc board/chip can be had for about $2000. Now for comparable Alpha clusters available "now" you can see for example http://www.microway.com/products/clusters/alpha.ht ml. They have one that hits the Imac price range dead on.
--
www.alphalinux.org
Have you seen API networks new CS20? http://www.api-networks.com/products/cs20.shtml
. Dual 833Mhz/667Mhz processors or a single 833.
. They handle 2GB of RAM.
. built in dual ethernet
. two 64 bit PCI slots each on their own bus
. onboard ultra160 scsi and UDMA 66 IDE
. Many "network aware" features
. able to boot linux from flash rom
. Did I mention Alpha's are 64 bit?
--
www.alphalinux.org
but API's is much faster :-).
http://www.api-networks.com/products/cs20.shtml
Would you like a dual 833MHz ev68 Alpha with each having a 4MB DDR cache? I would.
The best part is these PPC cluster slices cost about the same as a CS20 (like a UP2000) but the CS20 (otherwise known as 'shark')is a dual processor system!!!!
Also the CS20's boot linux from the flash rom and have neat little network enhancments that makes deploying them easy as turning them on.
How's that for bang per buck?
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
They're kidding right? Everyone where I work
has a cell phone. Top of the line samsung and we dont pay a dime. Otherwise you'd be burdened with making weekly expense reports etc etc. Why doesnt your company just pay for the thing?
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
If "open source" (what ever their definition of it is this week) is what Sun has to say to get folks attention then hell thats what they'll do. An "open source" java from Sun means nothing without Java itself being submited to a standards body like ANSI. More lip service from Sun's marketing to make them look like the nice guys while they plan their next points of attack against MS and the Linux/Unix world.
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
Traditionally the problem with the Nvidia cards was that it's video bios made some 32bit calls that wernt supported by the x86 bios emulator in SRM. Since SRM-5.8 has been released this problem has since been fixed. So the "only" thing holding back Nvidia support in X/DRI is for some folks to work on it's Xserver. FYI with regards to 3D acceleration DRI does work on Alpha now with the Voodoo 3. Glide3 has also been ported to 64bit and works.
--
www.alphalinux.org
WTF is up with the attitude? yes at one time Alpha documentation was scattered far and wide. Now that alphalinux.org exists you can find it all in one place including all the mailing lists for all the distros, searchable too. With regards to your fdisk question Rh-6.2's disk druid creates BSD disklabels for you AUTOMATICLY. Only for those who have harddrives that are misreporting their size or some other strange reason you have to use fdisk.Look at the SRM howto and learn howto BSD label disks properly and you're on your way.
maybe you didnt find the answer in the documentation but what you didnt do was ASK us a question in which i'd be more than happy to help.
And if their is a problem with the documentation nothing is going to be fixed until someone TELLS us.
Regards,
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
Judging the entire Alpha line of boxen by it's first incarnation (the jensen) is not a fair comparision. Jensens are totally different from any other Alpha. It's the equivilent of a 286 in terms of age. There is a great step by step howto on installing RH on a Jensen at alphalinux.org, it was just updated recently for use with aboot-0.7 and all supporting files updated as well. http://www.alphalinux.org/docs/jensen.shtml .
All other Alphas (except maybe ruffian) are a breeze to install linux on and the documentation is plentiful.
Regards,
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
Those sort of limitations are actually a problem
on 64 bit operating systems like an Alpha. For example Wildfire.
--
www.alphalinux.org
actually I remember seeing on the xfree homepage that the creator3d card is supported in XF 4.0.1 with DRI no less. See the change log...
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
After it's done installing windows it boots up in a sort of "safe mode" so OEM's can load drivers etc. There's alittle pop up window that always comes up that says "when you're ready to shutdown for good yadada, press this button" and that what change a registry key entry (if forget which) so next time the machine came up for a first time user.
:-)
Now what if you hit that button by accident? well in win 98 (not SE) you press CTL+ALT+F(2?) and that would get you back in to the OEM stage. In SE you have to do some wierd ass registry hack so it resets itself. It was so time consuming and aggrivating to do we'd rather reload the drive.
for the curious of how this exactly works visit.
oem.microsoft.com . You'll need to create yourself an account but once in you'll have access to all sorts of goodies. This is 'supposed' to be for OEM's and VAR's only but they cant verify it soooo...
you need to register here first to get in,
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
I worked for a small shop that used 'ghost'
extensivly. We also had OEM preload disks that we customized so that windows install was totally non-interactive. The bulk of the time was spent by the CD copying the CAB files to the harddrive. So what we did is once our preload disk copied all it's cab files and its about to reboot we stop it there and clone the disk. Now turn the machine back on and the harddrive boots into the scripted windows installer. After the OEM audit stage the machine is shutdown awaiting for the customer to turn it on for the first time and enter their license info. Is there anything wrong with this?
Not from my point of view. I could understand if MS was pissed off because shops where cloning disks that allready have been registered. Otherwise what's their problem?
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
This is the reason why you won't see a socketed Alpha. Because of all the signaling they require it just generates way too much noise to be a socketed chip. Hence the Slot B cartridge which handles this issue nicely. Seems Intel is finding this out for the first time :-) I would be wary of any socketed PIV or Merced.
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
Oh come now.... Aren't we jumping ship a but early now? I don't know about the rest of you folks but I can't 'twitch' nearly as fast as I used to and i'm only 21. That means I don't play Q3 anymore.
Truth be told I'd rather play AD&D but who has the time?
I can't believe the writer is telling me that ALL
americans regardless of age love shooters over RPG's. He's obviously reffering to the 12-25 group. I know older folks how play computer games
and very few of them can play something like decent or quake.
There is no plauge sweeping the nation because we are all immoral bastards. Folks are getting lazier,plan and simple.
You have now spoon feed TV, internet on demand, and an abundance of engaging video games. No wonder why some people who aren't the most self motivated people in the world get sucked into this void of being a vegetable.
You wanna blame someone? Blame the parents for not kicking their kid off the playstation and giving them an alternative like oh I don't know. Sports, Hanging out with friends, A JOB, and so on.
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
The new UP1100 comsumes a whopping 90W board and CPU.This board has a CPU soldered in not to mention on board DE500 ethernet and sound (ali/trident). And you don't have to drill holes in your case to use it ;-). Alphas are going to comsume less power once they start fabbing in 0.18 micron. Thats gonna happen soon and with that will come an increase in speed.
;-).
Alpha engineers may not be interested in power comsumption as their number one priorty but when you consider the present offerings for Alpha chips for what they consume for power is a good deal. It aint no PowerPC but it's no Merced either
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
Sounds like is has 4 "goal posts" (Like slot B boards do)that go through the board and bolt into the other side of the case. Guys you don't "have" to buy a new case. just drill out the holes. That saves you a case though now it seems you're going to need a new PS and oh it's gotta to be one of the Intel certified PS's or it may not work right.
I find it ironic that Intel's are consuming more
power and more space as they increase in speed.
While Alphas on the otherhand are consuming less
power and getting smaller as they increse in speed. Anyone seeing a trend here?
I'd like to see one of these thing fit in a 1U rack and stay cool. Nevermind a merced.
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org
with a million dollars? Good lord. They could
have made a UP2000 cluster with hundreds of machines doing the same job a whole hell
of alot faster. Better yet they could do the
same job as the SGI big iron could at a much
cheaper price. It shows that you use what you're used too...
--
www.alphalinux.org
I can't resist... "Name's Ash, click-clock, housewares"
--
www.alphalinux.org
I've followed inferno for quite some time hoping lucent would do something with it. Now that source code is somewhat available I'll get the chance play fiddle with this on Alpha. Groovy
--
www.alphalinux.org
I don't think thats ever going to happen and I'll give you one good reason. Tru64 has the BEST clustering/failover technology ever developed and it's been around the longest in that area as well. It inherited these capibilites from you guessed it , OpenVMS. Also Linux compatibilty could be achieved by porting glibc to Tru64. Then AlphaLinux binaries would be able to run on Tru64 with 0 modifications.
--
www.alphalinux.org
Compaq has never released FX!32 for AlphaLinux to date. There is em86 which runs intellinux binaries in full emulation but it's nothing at all like FX!32 and no where near as fast. Q has ported spike to AlphaLinux. Maybe FX!32 is next?
--
www.alphalinux.org
// Damn I wish these comment boxes were wider, I hate HTML
...
>>Microsoft never ported MS Office to Alpha.
Not entirely true. They ported Word and Excel ( i have the CD's). Corel ported all of wordperfect suite 8 to Alpha/NT (minus netscape and that mail center thingge)
>>On Linux, there is a severe paucity of >>"commercial" applications for Alpha, and some of >>the critical applications for "desktop" use are not available.
Well we dont have staroffice but we DO have applixware. Anyways I do most of my work with opensource tools.
>>Notably, Netscape is not readily available. (I know that the Digital UNIX version can be hacked into submission,but it is not an easy rpm -i netscape.rpm away...)
actually yeah it is as easy as RPM -ivh . Look on the Redhat-6.2 CD.
Tru64-compat-1.0-3.alpha.rpm
netscape-common-4.72-1.alpha.rpm
netscape-navigator-4.72-1.alpha.rpm
netscape-communicator-4.72-1.alpha.rpm
and Java works too.
>>On the server side, Oracle for Linux is not available. Ditto for Informix, Sybase, DB/2,
So does that mean I can't use Postgresql or MySQL? Oracle and company will port when the time is right.
>More critically, Linux/Alpha is a considerably more "brittle" platform than Linux/IA-32.
Do you mean unstable? hardly the case.
>>Linux may not be the rats-nest of spectacularly nonportable software that Windows NT is, but getting things like KDE, GNOME, GIMP, and such has been a fairly slow process. Hardware compatibility lists are similarly "brittle."
KDE runs excellently on Alphalinux and so has the GIMP since the RH-5.x days. GNOME works reasonably well. What hardware support is so lacking? There is support for a few RAID cards, nearly every SCSI and network card out there.
>>I've tried running the Diamond Rio package, rio on my Alpha box; it gets quite confused, probably due to some 32-bit-ism in the "driver."
Packages can't be fixed if you don't tell anyone that they are broken.
>> More critical is the paucity of graphics cards supported by XFree86 on Alpha. It is probably similar for other 64 bit platforms; you're restricted to whatever there are "open" drivers for, and there are some cards (Cirrus comes to mind) that have architectures that are distinctly unfriendly to 64 bit operations.
That's strange... I don't know how my Voodoo 3000 works then with XFree-4.0. Nevermind the 3dfx framebuffer and ggi. Which is very fast BTW. The only thing Alpha is missing out on right now is hardware accelerated graphics drivers on the newest cards and thats being worked on now.
>>All of this adds up to Alpha not being a particularly consumer-friendly platform. People that "just want it to work" will find it somewhat challenging in this regard.
If thats true then Sparc and SGI are just as "consumer-unfriendly platform". 64 bit computing at the time when windows NT was on Alpha was never meant to be a home PC but a high performance workstation. What people are you referring to?
>>This is presently the case for Linux/Alpha; it was the case for Windows NT/Alpha.
Absolutley not. More hardware and software is supported by Alphalinux than NT ever had. Also the community and commercial support greater than NT ever had...
>>The same will likely be true for IA-64, for a goodly while, by the way. The pains that Alpha has had may help IA-64 porting efforts to be less painful, but what "cramps" persist are likely to be irritants to adopters of IA-64.
at first yes but with the influx of 64 bit developers and commercial interest will make those growing pains short and sweet.
>>In short, I don't think this was a likely niche, except amongst "daft hobbyists," which doesn't represent all that "nice" a niche...
Thats rude. I know alot of UNIX admins and MCSE's that say the same thing about Linux in general. I apologize that most people who use Alphas have no choice but to use the fastest and most mature 64 bit platform out there to get their WORK done.
Regards,
Peter
--
www.alphalinux.org