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Pentium 4 Requires New Case And Power Supply
An unnamed correspondent writes: "It turns out that, for the Pentium 4, we're all going to need to buy a new case and power supply. The standard heatsink will weigh 450g (about 1 pound) and will therefore need four supports below the CPU, supports that require a new motherboard tray. Also, the Pentium 4 will need a new power supply with a new four-connector plug. This means that, if you want a Pentium 4, your old case and power supply will have to go. :( SE has more on it in their IDF Report." A little like AT / ATX and all the cousins; it's not that surprising that something has to give, but a shame that some of today's very nice cases will have to be tossed or modified to fit the P4.
Actually, *I'm* just thinking down the road to what the first P4 laptops are going to be like... :-)
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
450g heat sink! What'll they do for the laptop crowd, a built-in R134 refrigeration unit or a liquid nitrogen sprayer?
Both will add a manageable 20 pounds; however one will suck the battery dry in 4 minutes, the other could spill and crack your legs off like toothpics.
Whatever happened to all that hype about Star? and reducing power consumption or something. This sounds like a really inefficient use of electricity. Cause:
1. They're making more processor power by just adding more electricity
2. All that extra electricity needed to run fans and such.
Still I guess that's what ya gotta do when AMD is beating you out.
Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
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Don't get me wrong, I like the company, but there's a reason we talk about I86.
Leaders lead. Others follow.
This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
This situation sounds rather like a blast back into the past when a VAX 11/780 produced enough heat to keep your house warm.
And there are other perspectives from which it doesn't make sense, particularly the "IA-64" perspective. I thought that Intel was trying to start off a migration process to the New And Improved 64 bit IA-64 platform. Releasing Still More Pentiums doesn't seem terribly sensible.
On the other hand, people may react to this properly, thus:
and conclude that they should look to the "kinder, gentler, lighter-heat-sinked" IA-64 systems.If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
The thing runs hotter, what's the big deal? I remember fixing an old IBM XT that was sitting in my buddy's auto shop for almost 15 years. All of the circuitry was covered in oily grime and the 8088 was barely warm to the touch. The Sun Enterprise 3000's at work have massive fans surrounding the processors, does that mean that the Sparc is a lousy technology??? Technology changes, as time goes on Intel's engineers will run similar chips at lower temps. If heat is that important to you for whatever reason, wait until then to buy the thing.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
actually, what the article said was "This bad-boy feels more than twice as heavy as any socket heat sink we've seen other than what ships with Apple's G4s." (emphasis mine)
this may mean that the g4 heatsink is merely half as heavy as the pentium's instead of less than half as heavy like the other heatsinks they've seen...
i thought, therefore i was...
Socklet[0] A was necessary for technical reasons
new bus and all). Intel's socklet wasn't.
[0] Convenient general term for slot and socket, since they are often pin-for-pin compatable.
Throw-out my SuperMicro case, yeah right.
processor from a different company, or switch to a mac ;)
According to the article, the G4 heatsink is bigger.
Unless you meant iMac, or the fanless cubicmac. Mmmm. Fanless....
---
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Surely thou shalt repent of thy cunning.
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A Pentium IV is not the same as a Pentium III.
It has a 20 stage pipeline instead of 10 stage, a 400 MHz system bus instead of 133 Mhz, SSE2 with 144 new instructions, an "advanced transfer cache", and other changes.
There's an article describing some of the differences here.
On the other hand the PIII 1.13 GHz really is just an overclocked PIII 1 Ghz. That's probably the source of your confusion.
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
Torrey Hoffman (Azog)
"HTML needs a rant tag" - Alan Cox
Yeah, but the trouble is that this time around it's because Intel has gone knockers over trying to outdo AMD as far as clock speed is concerned. Yes, you can run an "ordinary" P3 750 at 1,3 GHz, but only if you stress it to the point of being able to cook your dinner on it. It's not exactly breakthrough engineering, though, so why bother requiring different cases because you've just thought up the corporate answer to millions of people overclocking their CPU's "just for the hell of it"?
What this new move shows is that Intel is growing increasingly desperate because they apparently can't seem to get the Itanium (or what's it called today) out fast enough and there's this little company called AMD whipping their ass by releasing overclocked versions of their *slightly* surperior design (Athlon). It also shows that Intel is afraid AMD will eat up their marketshare if they don't come up with some kludge to make it seem at least as if they're keeping up. A company more secure about its prospects would simply shrug and continue to work on their superior (maybe) next generation design. Witness how Microsoft has, for years, simply ignored the threat of Linux because they didn't *perceive* it as a threat. In the same way Intel used to ignore AMD back in the K6 days. Now that there's an Athlon, they start to resort to idiocy such as enforcing the special brew heatsinks made by OverClockers Inc. as a new *standard*.
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hrm, now that i think about it, i can't remember it it was the BX or LX chipset. anybody else know/remember?
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
I mean, that extra weight has got to be good for something, in fact I think I can see the ads now...
Announcer: "Here at Intel we realize that laptop lefts are increasing, which is why we're doing our best to help reduce the thieves or make them easier to catch. How so? The answer is simple, weight. That's right weight. Take your normal laptop, easy to pick up, easy to run away with, why? Because it's too light. Now take this new laptop with Intel's new Pentium 4 Processor, it's heat sink alone weighs 1 pound, the processor itself is larger, as is the case (ok, I'm guessing at this one) all this extra weight means that to the average thief, your laptop is not as appealing as one with a processor by the 'other guys'. Not only that, any thief who does try to take your laptop will be burdened down with extra weight and will be less likely to run as fast as if you had another laptop. Intel, isn't your laptops safety worth a little more?"
*That Intel Sound*
Legal Sounding Announcer: "Intel makes no guarantees, implied or otherwise as to your laptop's safety."
-GreenHell
"I won't mod you down - I feel the need to call you a twit explicitly, rather than by implication."
Intel (and AMD) change to slot designs to allow off-chip caches that ran at high speeds. Then, Intel and AMD switched back to sockets to lower packaging costs when the cache sizes could be fit on a reasonably sized chip again.
Actually AMD went to Digital's Slot A because Intel patented their Slot 1 and was charging obscene licensing fees for it. And since people are *already* buying a different mobo built specifically for Athlons, I don't buy the argument that this form factor switch is meant to tip the scales against AMD. The mobo/processor is so much more expensive than a $40 power supply that it really doesn't make a damn bit of difference WHAT case you use. The vast majority of people purchase their computers prebuilt anyway, and don't care whether the case will fit their old motherboard.
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
You forgot, the heatsink has to be attatched to the case, you'll just have to beat him with the whole case. And you just said why intel is doing this, because "normal" users are ignorant dumbasses that think mhz means all. Hell go up to some random guy/girl on the street and ask them if a p3 933 is better than an athlon 900, if they don't ask what an athlon is then their answer will most likely be the p3.
Devalis
Sounds like is has 4 "goal posts" (Like slot B boards do)that go through the board and bolt into the other side of the case. Guys you don't "have" to buy a new case. just drill out the holes. That saves you a case though now it seems you're going to need a new PS and oh it's gotta to be one of the Intel certified PS's or it may not work right.
I find it ironic that Intel's are consuming more
power and more space as they increase in speed.
While Alphas on the otherhand are consuming less
power and getting smaller as they increse in speed. Anyone seeing a trend here?
I'd like to see one of these thing fit in a 1U rack and stay cool. Nevermind a merced.
Peter
--
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As for the sparcs, their high temperature is justified, and, since they run on custom hardware anyway, it can be designed for this.
At the other end of the spectrum, we have Apple with its nice, cool, but still extremely powerful G4s. They may not be as powerful as the fastest x86 cpus, but mhz per mhz they are far superior, and are also cooler than the processors they approximately equal.
No that was willie...
Is the P4 the same as the Itanium/Willamette? I thought P4 was an *inbetween* stage, waiting for Intel to finally ship their next generation CPU. This is what all publications (both online and offline) I read had me believe.
P4 is the same thing as Willamette. Itanium (aka Merced, aka ia64) is a totally different CPU.
How come they require such an enormous heatsink if they've revamped the engineering?
I think it's because it will be in the 1.5-2 GHz range. Note that power increases almost as the cube of the clock speed because at the same time, you increase the switching rate, the voltage (so you can switch faster) and the current. (that's also why Transmeta's CPU was so low-power when it ran at lower clock)
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
As far as I'm aware, P4 is Willamette and is their next generation CPU. It's an IA-32 x86 chip with a completely new core. Intel had not shipped a brand new x86 core since the Pentium Pro.
Itanium will be the first processor to use the IA-64 architecture.
As for the heat issue, I don't know. I'm not a thermal engineer, nor do I want to be after that class I had to take.
With all of Intel's problems these days, I'm wondering a few things - like how much of this is caused by Intel rushing the P4 because AMD is kicking their ass.
Doesn't it seem even a little suspisious to anyone that the form factor "has to" change again just as AMD starts making inroads into Intel's market?
And pardon me for raising my uneducated head, but why is Intel dictating what the form factor should be? Seems to me that should be done by something like the IEEE or somesuch. Please, correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't allowing ONE company the ability to arbitrarily (but its necessary for innovation... yeah, sure it is) change "industry standards" give it a slight competitive edge?
Who controls the ATX form factor specs anyways? Intel?
Sorry, I know its not the same, but this sort of smacks of the fiasco with Socket 7. Change to a slot design to break compatibility, then change back to a socket for performance... only now they're trying to do it with case form factors.
I know AMD can and will change/keep up, but this means that they have to do work which they wouldn't of had to do before - all because Intel decides to be sloppy with power consumption (I assume that the huge heat is generated by using huge power - makes sense anyways)
Just my $0.035
Neil.................
I used to have a cool sig.
Who does this surprise? I seem to remember some plan earlier for Intel to make the Pentium II require all new cards, cables, hard drives, everything.
Of course, it never happened....
-Ross
What's really inadequate about AT form factor? The power connectors can take it and they can fit power supplies with the watts you need. Fans can be designed to blow air through them. There can be plenty of room for hard drives. Let's see, power, cooling space, what more does a mobo need?
What has ATX delivered? The connectors are turned 90 degrees. It's got some wake on LAN stuff that I'd rather do without, but that surely can be put into AT. It's got a new power connector, and I'm not sure what it does different. That X in the name is cool.
This is just going to make some more boxes into junk. I'll be happy to walk down to the computer store and buy your used ATX cases later, if people stop making AT mobos. Waste sucks.
I don't get it.
Soon, Intel will require that you have a fusion reactor in your case and a cryo unit to keep everything cool.
Intel wishes they could :P
Well some of us try to cut costs whenever possible
e.g i wouldnt usually spend $3000 dollars on any new technology
so "Screw you guys im sticking with AMD!"
when everything is working perfectly.. BREAK SOMETHING before something else FUCKS up!
More hidden Funny: stuff. The first 20 posts of /. articles are such utter trash :-P how did this shit get into the 100's?
AMD list on their web site what power supplies are approved for Athlon. If you're building your own system then go with one of these and you can't go wrong. If you want to cheap out with a 250W supply, then good luck to you!
By the end of the year AMD will have moved to their new Mustang "corvette" core which massively cuts power requirements and enables mobile athlons. This is what I'm waiting for to upgrade (Mustang/DDR) - not Intel's space heater P4!
It sits wide open with various parts hanging out of it at any given time.
... hence the large quantities of dust. Don't spill your Mountain Dew...
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
Don't hold back, I'm dying to know how it turned out.
Dude, check and mate
check and mate
Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
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Let me get this straight...you spent extra on a "very nice, very expensive case", and yet claim not to have any money? I bought the cheapest case I could find and spent my money where it counts, on the inside.
The reason that the heatsink weighs a pond is because it has a SOLID COPPER BASE!!! this is for thermal conductance, and as any self-respecting overclocker knows. Heat is Bad!, lower CPU temp means BETTER STABILITY!!!! My hot AMD still has some issues with running after a few hours of q3a. What im more concerned about is "....on faster procesors, EMI shielding will be required to meet FCC standards...." WTF!!! Im worried im gonna wake-up one day to find my PC has irradiated me !!!
"Out the 100Base-T port, through the router, off the bridge, past the firewall..... Nothing but Net."
If any processor needs the kind of power that only this new type of motherboard can accomidate, and then needs to radiate it away with a one pound(!) heatsink, the processor has problems, not the case/motherboard/power supply technology.
Who are you to say that the processor has problems simply because it has a large heat sink? Do people question putting in side impact beams in cars? "There must be something wrong with the car if it needs side impact beams, the doors must be flimsy". Do people question the fact that in order to drive your old Pinto with it's brand new Ferarri engine installed, you will probably have to upgrade the tires to drive at full speed?
You and me may not agree with Intel's design philosophy, but that doesn't mean that they are manufacturing a faulty processor... it just means that their design goals do not include cheaper, more efficient, cooler, lower power consumption for their main stream processors. They want to make the fastest x86 chip possible and because of many reasons, the solutions they come up with to create newer and "better" chips are not exactly going to be elegant.
I personally would hate to haul a laptop around that required an extra pound, and if it din't come with it, it would burn the pants off my legs.
.sdrawkcab si gis siht
The case unit with 1 Hard disk drive installed weighs ~139 pounds. IBM does not recomend moving this unit without assitance to prevent injuries
That is theft deterence!
Read my plan to save the Bengals
[NEWS, Nov. 1, 2002] The recent and intense global warming of the planet, over 7 C in just 14 months, is finally explained. International research centers using 12 observation satellites discovered the heat increase came from a new breed of microprocessors from Intel Corporation, the "Pentium IV". The heat generated by thousands of Pentium IV processors since its introduction in 2001 is being held responsible for the rise of sea-levels which caused the death of over 500 million people throughout the world and the flooding of 23% of all emerged lands of the planet.
In a net interview with Andy Grove, chairman of Intel Corp. who is now living on a giant floating base above what was Los Angeles, he declared "We are pleased our new Pentium IV processor had the effect our PR staff predicted: DEVASTATING!". He also announced Intel was actively working on a new "hot" processor, but complained their research was "limited by the available energy available in our solar system". The interview was interrupted by a sudden power failure.
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
One thing I just thought about: If this is indeed factual, and you will *require* a new case, will Intel patent the design of said case? If you want to run a P-IV are you going to have to buy an OFFICIAL Pentium-IV(or at least Intel sanctioned) case?
Dude, it's a case. I'm sure there are multiple solutions to the issue of housing this new beast so I wouldn't get a worked up about it. Besides, we don't even know if this is going to ever arrive or need this new case when it does or a hundred other things.
Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
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Two questions, though:
I'm really wondering now, ignorant shit that I turned out to be.
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
What's up with the 1 pound heatsinks??? You can get nearly the same performance out of a G4 cube with no fan. Or you can get a G4 MP machine and still end up using less power and beat out that 1.4 GHz P4 (complete speculation)...
What will installing a P4 do to one's electric bill anyhow?
Moreover, what's up with the 1 pound heatsink??!?! ONE POUND! Isn't Moore's law supposed to make things SMALLER?
i agree, and the correct phrase is "...Bent as a nine-bob note..."
"Out the 100Base-T port, through the router, off the bridge, past the firewall..... Nothing but Net."
Sparc's do not run on "custom hardware", whatever that is. Sun and several clonemakers manufacture thousands of workstations and servers every year.
That is like saying a Pentium 2/400 is running on a 'custom-made' BX motherboard.
As far as Apple is concerned, G3's are designed with a completely different philosophy, with it's own strengths and weaknesses.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Just a few points...
Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price
Well, if Intel had pushed for onboard SCSI instead of going with IDE, maybe we could be using Ultra160 drives at the price of current IDE drives.
USB was a decent technology that freed up those IRQs.
The technology is OK, but the implementation sucks. Try distinguishing between two mice, two keyboards, or two of anything without unique IDs connected to USB.
USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees?
Stop repeating that bit of misinformation, OK? Licensing fees for Firewire (which are a puny $1 per machine) go to a non-profit consortium formed by companies using Firewire, of which Apple is only one. As for USB 2.0, come back when there's actually hardware available.
As for AGP, I'd really like to see a performance benchmark of PCI vs. AGP.
I've seen such benchmarks; the difference is minimal until you get up to AGPx4. In fact, for most people there is no detectable difference.
for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend.
I'm really not sure what you meant to say here.
They wanted backside cache, and a slot was the only way to do it at the time.
Not true. Apple was able to do it with G3's without moving to a slot architecture.
Slot1 isn't as closed as you think. AMD's license with Intel would have allowed them to use it as well.
Untrue. It was precisely because Intel had the Slot1 specifications locked up with patents that AMD had to select a different bus architecture for the Athlon.
The new UP1100 comsumes a whopping 90W board and CPU.This board has a CPU soldered in not to mention on board DE500 ethernet and sound (ali/trident). And you don't have to drill holes in your case to use it ;-). Alphas are going to comsume less power once they start fabbing in 0.18 micron. Thats gonna happen soon and with that will come an increase in speed.
;-).
Alpha engineers may not be interested in power comsumption as their number one priorty but when you consider the present offerings for Alpha chips for what they consume for power is a good deal. It aint no PowerPC but it's no Merced either
Peter
--
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www.alphalinux.org
This logic does not work so well..
So I want an engine that has 350HP and gets 10mpg or a 350HP engine that gets 50mpg? You see? I dont think they are doing things properly they are just shoving mhz out there at a sacrifice of any real gains in engineering and ultimately engineering so I dont want to get stuck with some fucking Piece of shit I just paid twice what I did for an AMD that is less energy hungry, yet faster
See? And who in their right minds puts a Ferrari engine in a Pinto.
Who in their right mind puts a Pound Of cooling on a processor? No one I can think of except maybe OC'ers.
See.. As been pointed out of the G4 can make all these gains in processor speed and run WITHOUT a fan.. what gives what is intel doing differently when we have seen it can be done in a different more smooth way?
So.. I definately disagree with the design philosophy.
Intel might as well just drive a couple of dumptrucks full of money to AMD Headquarters everyday. Let's see: they can't compete in the chipset market anymore because RAMBUS won't let them make DDR enabled chips 'till 2003, that's why Intel resumed their previous licensing agreement with VIA. And finding a P3 at 1ghz or faster requires you to either perform a miracle or to have friends or family at Intel. Intel is in it deep, and they know it...
Are you god?
spoo
I think Tyan have a Slot1 baby AT board available (although the last time I saw one was about six months ago).
It's a big conspiracy all right - to make the ia32 architectures on the market more gratuitiously incompatible with one another. This was Intel can nobble AMD and VIA some by forcing suppliers to choose between desinging systems suitable for VIA and AMD kit, or Intel. VIA and AMD then either have to convince manufacturers to keep two product lines going, or drop a bundle on redesigning their product lines.
Perfect monopoly behaviour, and a great way of hitting the second-sourcing market.
--
My name is Sue,
How do you do?
Now you gonna die!
What else do I have to base my entire self-esteem upon?
IN any case (what a pun), my point was that a processor that competes directly with a "theoretical" pentium Four fits two in a case. I don't think your pentium 3 arguement holds up.
tcd004
With the Transmeta promising better energy management and everything else, I think its about time that Intel licensed the technology. At this rate I am going to have to upgrade my floors to something that support this much heat. Are we going to start seeing fire-hazard warnings on the cases?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
May i ask a cuestion? have you created this account only to make the joke on the top of the page? I mean, it's pathetic when an AC replies to himself, but going trough the hassle of making a new account... i don't have words....
English Out!
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Computers are getting to be the geek equivalent of giant SUVs driven by soccer moms. Seriously. All these people who don't do anything except surf the web and play MP3s and download pr0n and twiddle with their kernels...and they have monstrous machines with four fans and two pound heatsinks. It's starting to get to be very annoying in the same way.
I can't compete with that dude that mounted his mobo on pegboards or that other fellow who mounted his inside a cardboard box. But mine is not going to burn the house down.
Actually, no. The P4 has doubled the depth of its instruction pipelines to 20 compared with the 10 of the PIII. However, they haven't put as much effort as they should have into improving their branch preiction, with the result that every time there's a missed prediction, the entire pipeline has to be flushed. This is not good for performance, and will make the P4 slower than the PIII for almost all current applications (clock for clock).
I can see keeping my lap warm in winter. It sucks not to have a heater in my van. Brrr no more.
Ray tracing/3d modeling... Thats why i'm getting a desktop for my next PC, even though I'd prefer a laptop.
I disagree-- you draw comparisons between ISA and PCI (well, the previous author did too, to be fair), then state that this situation does not exist with these new motherboard/case design requirements. But it does, the new ATX standard exists soley to support newer processors (I don't see how this couldn't benefit future AMD processors as they move forward). The new power supply standards will benefit AMD as well, since it's their processors that have notoriously drawn the MOST power from motherboards.
If these aren't "better alternatives", I don't know what are.
All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
Anyone else out there think that intel is just planning ahead? I mean think about it, i doubt this processor will be much, if any, hotter than the p3. Maybe intel is just introducing this with the new processor so when they start having problems with ramping the p4 they already have a big heatsink attatched and can attatch bigger ones because it is held up by the case, sounds like a better plan then introducing a new case design because the 2ghz p4 is getting hot. And if that is correct by the time the p4 hits 2ghz alot of the cases people own will fit this format. Devalis
And just 2 months ago I spent $350 for a real nice server case w/ dual power supplies. I plan on using this case for at least 6 years, just upgrading the CPU & Motherboard. Throwing away a perfectly good standard just because Intel can't handle the heat is a big problem.
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If information wants to be free, it also wants to be tainted and biased.
This is not the way to build a lasting empire.
Yeah, I can't believe I can't put a Pentium or better in my 486's case. And for that matter, I can't put a P2 or P3 in my AT Pentium case.
The P4 is a new generation chip, not just a speed enhancement. This isn't the first time it's happened. Get over it.
AMD supporters - let's see you put an Athlon in your K5's case.
Windows 2000: Designed for the Internet. The Internet: Designed for UNIX.
This is just like Intel to think they can make and modify existing standards to fir thier inability to work with the current standards. I know now that I will never buy another Intel product again because I will be fueling thier egotistical revolution to try and make the PC Chip business a 1 company thing just like Microsoft tries to do with thier software. I think the stock market will also see that Intel is shooting itself in the foot and thier stock prices will fall accordingly. Luckily I have a couple hundred shares of AMD! God I love watching companies commit suicide!!!!!!
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Brent Jones
You have to take your chances on SlashDot, not to mention the sources people use in their postings. I recall the recent Mac Cube episode. Someone leaked what turned out to be accurate photos of the the thing, yet one guy did an elaborate analysis of how it had to be a hoax faked in Photoshop. You never know until you know.
:)
On the bright side, where else can you see such a collection of flamers and trolls every single day of the week, every hour of the day?
news:alt.revenge
For stupidity, histrionics, flames, trolls, and studied viciousness even SlashDot can't hold a candle to it.
Mostly I just wanted to use the word 'heatsinkery'.
Face it, procs are going to use more heat. Why NOT run your proc at 1.3 GHz. A fan costs maybe $10-$15, and I'd pay that for the extra 350MHz. As long as there are no stability concerns (and there don't seem to be any) what's the problem? Also, as far as I can tell, the Athlon uses significantly more power and makes a lot more heat than a PIII. The increased heat and power usage of CPUs are a unilateral trend. Witness those Alphas that take nearly 90 watts of power! I doubt a UltraSparc takes less current than a PIII. In fact, in power/heat department Intel isn't the worst.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Did it ever occur to you that 1.4ghz processors with huge die sizes might be more difficult to cool?
Apple designs their computers as complete units, including the cooling system.
Note that the heat sink on the G4 is about the same size as the one on my Alpha 433 (which sucks down more juice than even the most power hungry Athlon)
Neither the alpha nor the G4 have an on heat-sink fan, but they both have carefully designed cases that channel the air that's blowing out the fan on the case right over the heatsink.
Not really defending Intel (if this rumor is true), but this pro G4 bullshit is getting pretty extreme. Its a pretty good chip, but its still too hungry for laptops. There is a very good reason the laptop I'm typing these words on has a 500Mhz G3 rather than a G4.
You are in a minority. Most people, especially businesses, buy a box from a vendor and use it as is. It is usually not cost effective to upgrade the system. Replacing a motherboard is a major waste of time and money. It is cheaper to replace it with a new box.
I think it's because it will be in the 1.5-2 GHz range. Note that power increases almost as the cube of the clock speed because at the same time, you increase the switching rate, the voltage (so you can switch faster) and the current.
But isn't this somewhat mitigated by the fact that higher clock rate CPU's tend to use newer process technology, where the thinner gate oxides actually require running at a lower voltage?
Most LX boards are ATX. In fact, I can remember ATX boards being common for the later socket 7 boards.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Just underclock it to 750Mhz and you can use your same old heat sink/power supply/ and case. Would that make you happy?
Do you really think that engineers enjoy putting huge heat sinks on processors for no reason at all?
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
Ever heard of Slot A and Socket A
AMD are just as Bad!"Out the 100Base-T port, through the router, off the bridge, past the firewall..... Nothing but Net."
Ohhh, Timmer?
Given the wake of stories that were posted on slashdot that turned to not be true or the situation changed or such, why are we giving so much credence to an "unamed correspondent?"
The internet isn't mass communication it's mass hysteria
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Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
<O
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Don't discount the value of a nice case. Especially for people who *do* do a lot of upgrading, having a case that makes such things easy is a Good Thing. Cheap cases may have poor circulation, causing overheating, or be too flimsy, causing high-RPM drives to vibrate and eventually damage themselves. Stamped edges that haven't been finsished can cut you, and inadequite motherboard support can cause PCI cards to not seat well. Inferior power supplies may drop out under load or heat, and damage peripherals (I have had this happen 3 times with cheap cases--that is a major reason I get high quality stuff, too).
Like my monitor, I consider a high quality case to be an investment that will last through several CPU generations. Having to go buy a new one (If I weren't going to switch to AMD) would not kill me, but it is rather annoying.
Why oh why is this such a big fucking deal? In 2001 the Itanium is going to be spit out of the giant Fabrige egg that is Intel why are you letting the stopgap measure known at the P4 cloud your vision? My old Katmai P3 500 works pretty damn well at most everything I use it for. The so-called P4 is nothing more than a testbed for die techniques and code morphing to be included into later generations of Intel chips. For you and I running Quake 3 we're not going to see terrible improvement in anything. We need to move past this 32-bit kludge we've been stuck in for the past decade. What awaits us is 64-bit gigahertz goodness. Fuck the P4, I want some soma.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
Using a threaded drill, it shouldn't be too difficult to modify your existing ATX case to put in the extra screws.
:-)
Getting a PSU however will probably be difficult as they are often all kinds of different sizes.
You don't need to worry about the screws if you work in a zero-G environment however
The Pentium Pro is by far the best processor Intel has ever made.
Not another case to buy again - I just barely got all my machines up to the ATX format cases($450)
Makes me wonder if they are trying to push the P4 to market before it is ready. (Who cares about the heat! We need something to beat AMD now! sayeth Intel)
I still have a issue with the ATX power conector for the MB. I found that it never was quite reliable when it came to the green wire (The soft on/off switch) I would instead like two wires for that - one to the front panel switch, one to the MB
IMHO the ATX MB/Power connector sucks shit
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
Boycott the P4! Overclock your P3!
Exactly what "crappy" products has Intel released?
;-)
The first-gen Celeron, need I say more?
Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price (20GB for $150). Didn't think so.
The point is not what is cheap and fast now, but what could have been cheap and faster had Intel backed it, with onboard SCSI.
USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees?
Firewire is Apple's brand name for the IEEE 1394 open standard, incidentally developed by Apple. Don't want to pay Apple, don't call it Firewire (or i.Link, Sony's interpretation, only lacking supplied power), its still the same thing.
You can't judge a company on marketing speak.
Well some people do, and you've got to admit, Intel's PIII="faster internet" promos are about as ridiculous as it gets.
However, you can judge them by the fact that right now, the PIII is the fastest Quake chip.
Yep, thats all thats important after all
Spyky
...In that 'case', I'm going the AMD way.
Goodbye Intel, it was not always fun.
We've got a IBM Netfinity 5500 in the office at the moment. There's a sticker on the back with a picture of 4 people lifting the damn thing. (weighs 121 pounds, but boy is it sexy!)
"If you unscrew Bill Gates' navel will the bottom fall out of the software market?"
Re question (2) - Blame Can^H^H^H Motorola. The lack of >500MHz G4 chips is what lead to Apple having to release dual proc 450/500 machines instead of a faster version of the single proc.
Of course, the number of people buying computers is going up and up, so Intel's revenue is still going to go up -- but they're no longer getting the *percentage* of the consumer CPU revenue that they once did.
Now, are we _sure_ that this report is real? I've not been on Slashdot too long, but I've seen more retracted/inaccurate stories listed here than I feel comfortable to admit. Don't get me wrong, love the site, but I'm afraid I need to take it with a whole grain of salt - make that a whole shaker.
I'm going to have nightmares of a midget being torn from a cylindrical, beeping robot, screaming about one pound heatsinks and producing robot offspring...
---
That's because Intel keeps FUCKING with us. They lie, they release crappy products, they make absurd FUD-filled product roadmaps they have
no intention of fulfilling, they release products that do not ship in sufficient quantities,
>>>>>>>
Exactly what "crappy" products has Intel released? As far as I can remember, the fastest chip on the block is still the PIII 1.13 GHz. At least according to SysMark2000 (a script of 8 common applications) and Quake. Check out the reviews of the 1.1GHz Athlon at www.sharkyextreme.com. What FUD filled road-maps? Sure Itanium has been delayed several times, but hell, all chip-makers have these problems. For example, AMD and it's long delayed K5.
they perpetuate old out-dated worthless technology
(x86, ISA, IDE, etc.),
>>>>>>
x86 chips are the price/performance leaders for most things. They tried to kill ISA two or three years ago, but consumers wouldn't let it die. Intel in no way pushes IDE that hard, I think the PC market in general does that. Show me an alternative! Find me a SCSI harddrive that can match my Maxtor DiamondMax 20 at the same price (20GB for $150). Didn't think so.
and the new technology they do promote is almost always totally bass-ackwards, and designed primarily to either grab
more marketshare, or defend marketshare they have to the death, by any means other than what you'd logically think would be the BEST way to
get marketshare: make faster, more stable, more affordable chips than the competition. (USB, Slot1, AGP, etc.)
>>>>>>>>
As for pushing technologies to gain market share, that's what companies do, live with it. However, in recent memory, all of Intel's desicions have been pretty good. USB was a decent technology that freed up those IRQs. PCI was a whole lot better than VLB. USB 2.0 might not be as good as firewire, but do you really want to pay Apple licensing fees? As for AGP, I'd really like to see a performance benchmark of PCI vs. AGP. Not all of us can afford 32MB cards, and for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend. Slot1 was a mistake. However, what was their alternative? They wanted backside cache, and a slot was the only way to do it at the time. AMD had to do it too. (BTW> Slot1 isn't as closed as you think. AMD's license with Intel would have allowed them to use it as well.)
And most infuriatingly, the main reason Intel seems to succeed is because stupid people buy into their "Intel Inside" campaign, that a PIII makes
surfing the internet faster.
>>>>>>>
You can't judge a company on marketing speak. Let's see, the recent Suse Slashdot banner touts Suse 6.4 as the best OS ever. That's why Linux sucks! However, you can judge them by the fact that right now, the PIII is the fastest Quake chip.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
9 months ago, I bought an AMD Athlon 650 for $500. Turns out it was faulty and the problem showed up worse as the weather got warmer. Past couple of months, the system wouldn't run for 15 minutes without serious instability. Processor guarantee was only 30 days so I decided to bite the bullet and get a new one. Well, I was going to upgrade to 700 or 750MHz while I was about it but AMD has discontinued *all* slot A processors. Bear in mind that I bought the 650 shortly after the 700Mhz was announced (I wanted to get a 700 but couldn't get my hands on one). I was facing having to splash out for a new motherboard as well as the processor less than a year after I'd bought the originals. In the end, the best I could get was another 650 and that was the only slot A processor the place had left.
Rich
I couldn't agree more, especially with multiple drives... I had problems with this, not lessened by the fact i belted the case out a bit..., I usually always buy a separate 300W powersupply, ignoring salespeople who say the 220 or 250 supplied will be "more than you could ever use"... Hmmm, 4 10,000 rpm drives, P-III, several USB devices, Viper card, SCSI adapter, DVD decoder, SCSI CDR and IDE DVD and several bay fans... Sorry, I prefer not to risk it...
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
I can't help but think that these new Pentium 4s are only going to be more overclocked chips... we all saw what happened this week with the new Intel 1.2 gHZ chip. I thought the P4 line was supposed to be switched to a lower micron to reduce heat? Whatever happened to that idea? With all of this recent (bad) Intel news, it sounds more and more like AMD has a golden opportunity here...
That intel really sucks.
slashcode: .sig not found
I went from a 200mhz 604e with a HUGE HONKIN' HEATSINK (but it didn't need a fan on the heatsink) to a 300mhz G3 that gets easily twice as much done (easily verifiable on, say, renders in POV) and has a tiny purple heatsink the size of an ornate postage stamp. And still no CPU fan. :)
You are most breathtakingly wrong :)
Wish I always got (3, Informative) that easily. Maybe I should change my sig.
I have a positive modifier on Troll. When I mod someone Troll their karma should go UP!
It's not like you wouldn't have to go buy a new motherboard, ram, etc., for your new P4, so you might as well buy a whole new case as well. If I was going to spend $3000 on the latest technology, I wouldn't try and save money buy reusing my old case. Stop bitching :)
Fight Spammers!
Yah, serious in like the 6100s 33mhz memory bus. Whee!
That said, I'm quite happy with my 50mhz bus PowerCurve running a 233mhz i picked up for $23 on ebay sitting in one of those g3 zif cards. But a 50mhz fsb is admittedly too slow. Putting in a p4 designed for a 400mhz fsb would be wasted on present-day 100 or 133 mhz fsbs.
blessings,
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
I think we now know who the real culprit in global warming is, ban all Intel Products
Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
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I'm still using my 486 with VISA buss mobo and it works quite well, thank you.
Six years ago I invested in that 486 because Intel promised backward compatibility for future Pentium processors. They dropped the ball. The only upgrade then was a new motherboard, and my integrity in Intel was destroyed. That's 1/2 the reason I am leaving the Wintel platform.
I refuse to keep up with the Joneses by replacing my PC every 1.5 years; I got my own retirement to fund, not theirs. I can get at least ten years out of an automobile, and I expect to get that much out of my PC.
CPU replacements should be as simple as swapping a chip or subboard, but *don't* make me buy a complete new system. We've already got more than enough disposable non-bidegradable junk sitting in our landfills.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Star Trek movies worked the same way, the odd numbered ones sucked.
"Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
It'll probally run similar to an ATX power supply, but with a different connector, as to force you to upgrade those. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried for force Rambus to be used with them either. But, to the point of this. I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to tweak an ATX power supply to run the board. I also imagine the board mounts will be nearly the same, except the holder for the heatsink, which shouldn't be too hard to add. of course, this fits in with the "upgrade cycle" that they try to get you on.
Don't call my crazy, that's what they called me back in the home!
Okay, so we got this new P4 thing that weighs tons, draws more power than it takes to wake up Godzilla, and could replace your home furnace, but then we got this G4 thing that doesn't even need a fan and yet still seems to be twice as efficient for the megahurts. Now guess which one I want...
Only two itsy complaints: (1) why didn't Apple put more expansion bays in the PMac G4?, and (2) Why is it still 500 MHz? How do you go about overclocking the dang thing?
Anyone ever tried to get a G4 mobo in an ATX case? I'd take a drill and hacksaw to mine (even though it's a really nice case) if I could get a G4 to fit in, just for those extra bays. Anyway, wouldn't a beige ATX tower with a Mac inside look cool? How about funny?
What's Intel thinking? Simple, they are thinking that the VAST majority of users NEVER UPGRADE their machine! SOME will add more memory or a hard drive, but even that is rare. I saw a report somewhere that said something like 80% of all PCs are never upgraded/repaired
In other words, we are the minority
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
I used to believe this but my CPU runs about 4C hotter with the case closed than open. And yes, I have installed an extra case fan. Rich
Actually, *I'm* just thinking down the road to what the first P4 laptops are going to be like... :-)
Intel and the laptop designers had better watch out on this one...
After all, didn't that little old lady get millions when the McDonalds coffee scorched her lap?
Personal injury lawyers take heed!
Would this mean that the Intel Inside sticker would qualify as a warning?
MAB
The way I figger it, if you can afford $1200+ for a first-run P4 CPU + mobo, you can certainly afford $30 for a new case.
--
www.kitchengeek.com -- Nosh for
Bad news: It won't fit in an old case.
Worse news: Here's the new case design!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's disgusting to think you would need a heatsink that heavy, especially since it needs 4 supports. Luckily, people still make exceptions. It's just another reason to use a processor from a different company, or switch to a mac ;)
I'm thinking that this will make laptop integration very difficult.
I'm thinking laptop desintegration/meltdown...
Intel seems to be doing this a lot lately. They're trying to control the whole computer by leveraging their market share in CPUs. If you want to use Intel's CPU, you have to use the case that Intel dictates. I suspect that they'll have a lot of influence over this case design.
---
END OF LINE
yeah - hose are valid issues. Butthe thing to remember with the PIII 1GHz and the P4 1X GHz is that it is not the processor that is the bottleneck right now.
If you bench the two next to ewachother in a similar config - the difference is slight - that is because the bottleneck is the PCI bus.
We now have fast procs - fast mem - great video (ala Gforce et al) but we have a slow ass 33/66mhz pci subsystem. We need PCIx at 133? to increase the overall bandwidth of the systems - the procs are thirsty for it.
oh - and not to mention some nicley optimized SW to really put all that tech through its paces....
Seems kinda hefty, they have pics of the golden orb P4 cooler at plycon.com, maybe it weighs a pound. I just brought a 300watt ATX and a nice ATX case figuring that I could at least give myself a case that would last. Guess not. Hopefully the Sledgehammer won't need this silly upgrade.
-- taking over the world, we are.
now its a good thing that i didn't bother to plaster my entire box with linux stickers like that one site thats kind of like copyleft reccomends...or else if i actually supported myself being spyed on by big brother i'd have to buy a new box.
what site am i talking about?
i wish i could remember, somebody help me out damnit.
Rock 'n Roll, Not Pop 'n Soul
Rock 'n Roll, Not Pop 'n Soul
carldrawings.dk3.com
My old case is busting at the seams to hold all that pron, anyway.
`
Warning: It is a federal offense to impersonate The President.
Also if anyone else has any expirence with these machines I'm looking for some online documentation or perhaps some where to purchase parts for them. These are the specs:
Pentium Pro or normal w/ 60mhz co/pre processor (on daughter board)
4 simm slots, also another VESA slot labeled "mem board" which i have not been able to find. The appear to need parity ram
Dual channel SCSI-II (AIC-7770)
450 watt PS
LCD Panel on front displays:
"PentiumTM 90"
"System Ready"
That being said...why do they put those "cup holders" in the cases that slide out when I press that button? Perfect size for a cup! *g*
As for the new power supplies, I actually prefer this arrangement to AMD's schtick with Athlons. Sure, it will take any old power supply, but it won't behave right for most of them.
New board, new cases, new RAM, new peripherals. It happens. It's expensive. Get over it. Do you really want old technology sticking around just because we're stubborn? (ISA, coff coff).
My mom is not a Karma whore!
In the Macintosh world, a number of machines
are easily upgradeable by installing a processor
card. This with even old machines (like PowerMac
6100's, can be found for under $50) to G3's -- despite some fairly serious motherboard differences.
I can't imagine that somebody wouldn't want to try this for PC processor upgrades. Could make a bundle (unless it cost more to do than buying a new motherboard and power supply).
Libertarianism is rich wolves and poor sheep playing gambler's ruin for dinner.
My vehicle's engine is still able to use today's fuel, and it's 16 years old. The same can be said for cars that are 60 years old.
My current processor will not beable to power the software of a few years from now.
It may be neccessary to move on and abandon old base technology from time to time, but Intel's really not in a postition to be screwing with the upgrade paths of their loyal customers. (I'm sure that there are some) At the same time, I don't trust a chip that requires reinforced cases to support its mass.
Intolerant people should be shot.
We've all tried this before, and its not such a big deal. Casings will not require large manufacturing modifications, eventhough it may be impossible for the consumers to do it @home. As long as they don't change all of the connectors (inside and out) I wont be too heated up about this.
2/8th byte,
Daniel
Or...
what the living hell are those freaky guys over at Ford thinking anyways? this leaves no upgrade path for existing horse and buggy customers, unless they can make more "overdrive" bags of steroid-laden oats. which means that anyone who wants a car is going to need a new chassis. oh, and probably some wheels.
If you like Sunnyvale CPU's better, then use 'em. If you prefer a horse and buggy to a car, then go for it. Just quit whining, OK?
Slashdot is entertaining like pro wrestling is entertaining
Try and picture what a Z80 at 200mzh to 1gzh..
The Z80 is great and is still used for simple appliences (Remote controls use the Z8 but I'm not talking that simple.. the larg sat dish boxes use the Z80..I don't know what direct TV uses but I suspect something more powerful is used)
But the z80 wouldn't hold up well against a Pentium...
The pentium dosn't hold up well against the G4, AMD chips or the Sparc...
We allready went past RISC and entering Code morphing... More over X86 isn't even 1980s tech.. it's still very burnned in the 8 bit procesor design. The 680X and 6800X represent the 1980s technology and RISC 1990s...
Thankfully Intel has chips that do not have procesor structure dating back to the 4004...
But the Pentium 4 isn't it...
I'd expect a one pound heat sink on a 500 mzh Z80...
Try building a game console as powerful as the playstation with the same tech used to build the Channel F... Could it be done? Hack yeah...
And you'd have the worlds larggest building while you were art it...
I don't actually exist.
Intel sells more chips to large OEMs than to individuals. Will OEMs care about this? Nah. If there's any associated cost, they'll just pass it on to the consumer.
If you were an OEM, would you want your customers upgrading their existing computers? Or would you prefer they buy a new one?
So maybe Intel caters to the whims of their largest customers, the OEMs. If that's true, I'd say that's shortsighted. Because ultimately its still the end-user who drives demand, not the middleman. End-users need to be educated, though, that there are alternatives.
--Lawrence Lessig for Congress!
1) We would be returning to luggable systems to accomodate the girth of this overclocked mainframe CPU. If they're able to make a mobile version which can fit in the present super-slim notebooks with only a tiny heatsink and usually no fan, then it should be childs play to make a desktop version with cooling needs similar to the present processor.
2) Overclockers have taken systems meant to go no faster than 550 MHz and brought them to 900+ MHz using elaborate active cooling schemes, some of them almost entirely contained within a standard ATX case. Intel does not need a redesigned case, they need to modify their heat sink design to accomodate the industry standard.
3) There is no need for a new PS connector. The ATX power supply already has unused pins, like most any other standard connector. These lines can be used for Pentium 4 power supplies, allowing for backwards compatibility.
4) Everyone knows the Pentium 4 is a dead-end design, and won't want to redesign their cases and power supplies again with the IA64.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Intel could care less about the people who are worried about having to replace their cases. People who are upgrading processors, almost by definition, are buying in very small quantities. Nearly always, one and sometimes two at a time. Corporation have been turned off to component upgrades. It's cheaper for them to buy a whole new system than to pay someone to upgrade systems individually, and then incur all the other compatability problems that won't be covered by a warranty.
Since their big customers are buying whole new systems anyway, it's no problem to specify a new case and PS design. Dell and Gateway will make a few changes that will be amortized to nothing over the 100,000 units they will build.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Is there any motherboard yet (or announced) that will take two FPGA celerons? Say the 566s, o'clocked to 850? Or has Intel thrown a monkey-wrench in making those guys SMP?
For that matter, where are the FC-PGA dual processor boards?
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
yeah like my VISA buss broke down a while back, and i got it fixed by this guy who was like yeah i take amerikan express...
so like i got it replaced by a PIC buss and i havn't looked back since.
"Tension is the great integrity" -- R. Buckminster Fuller
Case manufacturers won't be too upset by this - guaranteed increased revenue!!
I can't beleive that this was honestly unavoidable. First of all, nobody needs a heat sink that needs extra case support, and if your cpu does need it that means your cpu must be REALLY badly designed if its that hot. And as to the power supply, this is the same thing. If they need so much extra power they must be doing something wrong. The mobo can supply alot of power. I cant beleive that there is no way to design a power source that works like the old ones, through the pins.
So what I want to know is who is the marketing guy who came up with this excuse to make people buy all new cases! The AT->ATX was a little different in that we had alot of new changes like the bios power control and stuff like that. But I cant accept that this is anything more a ploy to line the rich peoples pockets.
140 pounds? This is requires "assistance"? Bah. Weak little people with your "no lifting anything over 70 lbs labour laws"! 300 pounds I could see, but 140?
(For the record, I'm 6'8", and have carried 300 pound objects by myself in the past.)
Intolerant people should be shot.
But the dust justifies playing with the can of compressed air!
:-)
Well, ok, that's true enough
Canned air is even more fun to hold upside down and freeze spiders.
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
It takes a lot to keep those radio tubes cool. I have a vision of one day being able to fit a whole processor on a silicon wafer no larger than the tip of my pinky finger. You laugh, but just wait...
no this ISNT flaimbait... but "from the please-let-Apple-OEM-some dept."??? Why on EARTH would Apple, who unveiled less than a month ago a totally fanless system want to put a 1 lb. gargantuan CPU that would melt your floor without the large array of fans and heatsinks. Apple has NO interest in Intels moves (besides this being a not-desktop-targeted CPU). Apple may be pissed at Moto right now, for slacking on chip production (small chip fab facilities :( ), but there are 1000 alternatives before Apple has to sink to Intel chips... so... go Apple! (I'm getting either a Cube or dual g4 tomorrow... go educational discount! :) )
---
"I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Well, it's nice to see the shoe on the other foot.
I think with this story, those that have been busting Alpha's balls for so many years about power consumption and heat dissipation can now direct their attention elsewhere.
As Pete said, Intel/AMD's power/heat consumption go up as Alpha's go down. Alpha will never be there with StrongARM or Transmeta in power/heat, but we're certainly in a much better position than Merced or P4!!
Disclosure: I work at API.
What's my Karma Mr. Burns? "Excellent"
Hello? Have you held a Palm Pilot lately? We're generally making computers go faster and larger, and then taking older technologies and making them smaller. So eventually we'll have a 386 equivalent in a watch and a P6 3333 on our desktop.
Apple's newest computers ship without active cooling. They've been able to reduce the heat produced by their systems to a manageable level.
While admittedly I wasn't considering a Willamette purchase, it certainly increases the barrier to building a P4 system. This is obviously the result of the higher clock frequencies, but is it really necessary? Does anyone else forsee a lackluster public opinion on the P4? A 1 lb. heatsink? Imagine what the fan might sound like (40 cfm!)
disgust.
Need I mention the recall of the 1.13 GHz PIII? As I see it, AMD is kicking Intel's butt, they're about to release the new Athlons, mobile Athlons, have already released the Duron, and work to get the x86-64 processors out is going pretty good, and Intel is running scared....VERY scared
I hate sigs...
Is it me, or is Intel really trying to make things awkward with the Pentium IV? I can understand IA64 chips requiring a new case - they are meant for high end server applications anyway - but for a processor which is consumer/workstation level to require new cases and power supplies...
Of course it isn't that hard a requirement, it is just that these new cases will cost a lot initially because they will be an unusual shape. It might also take a while for the non-beige cases to appear as well.
Standards are good. AT, ATX, MicroATX etc. I am sure that this will be ATX+, or ATX2, or something.
It is also a bad reflection on the Pentium 4's power consumption - and Intel want to put this baby in laptops by the end of next year!
AMD's chips are cheaper and faster than intel's but for a while at least intel was able to say "we're more reliable-we use less power". Now they can't say that anymore-we've seen the 1.13 ghz overclocked P !!! fiasco, this latest news about the Pentium 4 and don't forget that the itanium will also be a toaster-you may need an 800 watt supply for that one (ouch!). On the other hand, AMD is doing the right thing-their next gen athlon will take up less power than before
---
Good point. Being one who has never given much thought to the prefab OEM market, the reality of it never occured to me. I stand (sit?) corrected.
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
This isn't the first time we've heard of hardware being just shy of unusable (I'd actually say this isn't usable). Anyone remember what Intel was saying about the original Pentium before its release? Eventually, Intel figured out how to engineer it to not need to liquid cooling.
Give it a few months and it'll fit in standard (for intel, anyway) hardware, ready for the masses. Otherwise it just won't sell enough to justify the cost of development.
-Ducky
http://duckpond.org
It sure seems like it. First, low availability of Ghz+ systems. Second, the Rambus debacle. Now this. AMD couldn't have planned it any better.
" ...when will they find a clue?"
Perhaps when they no longer make revenues of more than $30 Billion a year...
We often tend to doubt these 'captains of industry' from the safety of our armchairs, here on slashdot, but few of us can ever hope to approach this kind of success. How can we possibly know what is savvy or correct at that scale? I think I'll side with the expert considerations of the people that run such a monstrous company than the consummer-centric bashing this mob has to offer. Intel is perfectly aware of their competition.
:)Fudboy
:)Fudboy
I guess I'm only a Fudboy, looking for that real Transmeta
P6s and K7s both use superscalar RISC pipelines with x86 decoders bolted on. Changing instruction sets wouldn't make the CPU much smaller or cooler at all. Look at CISC as machine code compression, reducing instruction bandwidth needed to keep the pipelines busy.
I say this with an open mind. I convinced my roommate to buy a 500Mhz G3 iMac instead of a gateway or other "newbie" PC.
:-(
What a mistake!
The design is awesome. The Pro mouse and keyboard look awesome (yes, the 'no-button' tech is easy to get used to). But jeezus-h-christ does MacOS suck! I felt like I was using a 200Mhz processor. My 450Mhz overclocked celeron running win2k feels about twice as fast as that iMac.
Subsequently, we grudgingly boxed the thing up after it froze THREE TIMES on the first day of use. Sad thing is, Apple has a no-refund policy*, so we're selling it on eBay.
Now I know why Apple didn't want to release the G3/G4 specs to Be -- they're stalling until MacOS X comes out. Sure as shit, PPC people would be switching from MacOS 9 to BeOS 5 in droves for performance reasons.
-thomas
* Yes, that is right -- absolutely NO REFUNDS. Apparantly Apple has no confidence in their products.
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
"And like that
- You must be older than dirt! Can I have your autograph Mr. #691?
Oh, and I forgot to mention smartasses...jer
The one pound heat sync would make a welcome addition to most lap tops. The extra pound of weight would a great theft deterant.
Wonder what Transmeta thinks of it.
*reread*
Oh- 'W2K'. My condolences. If you ever do actually get an iMac, rather than just making stuff up on slashdot, hope you figure out how to throw away 90% of the crud and cruft it ships with :)
*g* anecdotal evidence != 'open mind'. I hammer on my ol' upgraded 9500 day in day out for years on end and never need to take it anywhere to get it fixed. It's the most user-maintainable thing you could want, doesn't exhibit 'OS rot' like windows installations. Given initiative I could go find software to crash it and freeze it (hell, I use netscape every day, and that is the _king_ of non-deterministic crashability- months go by without a hitch and then WHAM WHAM WHAM *g*) but why should I, when I have tons of apps, including ones I can write myself, that don't crash?
*hee* some open mind there, fellow slashdot user #210999 ;) next you'll be saying that linux can't be used on the desktop ;)
Last I heard, the FBI doesn't participate in sodomy as punishment. You sure have some sick ideas.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Here's the full spec in PDF format.
The market price for one of these buggers, paid in twenties, should easily approach 450 grams. At least it'll free us up to buy that slimmer wallet we've always wanted.
Totally agree.. I bought a nice enlight AT case 4 years ago. It's still my primary box's case. I've painted, hacked, sawed, glued, and multilated the case, and it still serves me quite well. :-)
I especially like the fact that I can get in, rip the HDs, cdrom, floppy, basically *everything* but the cards out without a single tool. Everything is on slide rails. (the cards are held in with a single screw tho)
Enlight is still making cases. I have 5 very nice Enlight ATX cases in use at my place. There's hand-removable rails for the 5.25 bays, and the 3.5 bay snaps out real easy. There's also an extra intake fan in the front and an extra exhaust fan in the back, not to mention the large row of vents on the side. The sides are held on by a single (optional) screw and slide off individually. Very slick, and not single sharp edge. Worth every cent!
Disclaimer: I don't work for Enlight or own any Enlight stock.
Just think about it for a second. Intel is designing computers with built-in theft deterrent systems. Who want's to steal a desktop when they're guaranteed a hernia just for picking the damn thing up?
:p
I'm certainly deterred by the P4, and I guess that's the real proof this is a Theft-Deterrent because according to the RIAA I'm a thief.
Steven
--
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
Heheh... if the processor is that hot, and you've got a plastic case on the laptop... well, the China Syndrome probably wouldn't be very comfortable if it happened in your lap.
-J
Karma: T-rexcellent.
Well, if Intel had pushed for onboard SCSI instead of going with IDE, maybe we could be using Ultra160 drives at the price of current IDE drives.
>>>
Intel wasn't the first company in the core logic chipset game. Nearly all of the early PC chipsets used IDE. It wasn't until much later that Intel started making chipsets, and at that point, IDE was already entrenched. You can't fault Intel for just doing like everybody else when they made their first chipsets.
I've seen such benchmarks; the difference is minimal until you get up to AGPx4. In fact, for most people there is no detectable difference.
>>>
Those benchmarks are for cards like the Voodoo series (up to V5) that don't use AGP effectivly. I'm talking about REAL AGP cards.
for those people with 4MBers, AGP is a godsend.
>>>>>>>
If you've only got 4MB of local graphics RAM, you're sure as hell going to see the difference between AGP and PCI. And that's not that uncommon. A lot of cheap comps come with only 4MB of memory but AGP 4x.
Not true. Apple was able to do it with G3's without moving to a slot architecture.
Untrue. It was precisely because Intel had the Slot1 specifications locked up with patents that AMD had to select a different bus architecture for the Athlon.
>>>>>>>>
Read MaximumPC (or maybe boot's) interview with AMD's President. He specifically says that they have a cross-license agreement with Intel that would allow them to use Slot1, but used SlotA for the higher performance.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Why thank you.
I feel better already.
<O
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8===D
A One Pound Heatsink !?!!? I think Intel missed the bus on the idea of the point of an upgrade is to make faster and smaller. I mean sure, I'm sure they could make a 1 Terrabyte drive thats on a 3' wide platter, but they're not !
Resting on your laurels always catches up
with you.
GM and Ford made a lot of money in the 1970's
making gas guzzling cars.
Then the hondas and toyotas arrived.
You know the rest of the story.
Its not like anyone who isn't named Michael S. Dell is going to be able to buy one from someone other than Michael S. Dell.
Microsoft Windows still relys on the Intel chip.
Linux runs on a wide range of systems including the x86 and other operating systems have a non Intel box as it's primary target.
With how Linux only systems use Transmeta or MIPS chips and how well Linux runs on the Mac the death of the x86 chip might accually improve the popularity of Linux sence it runs better when you run it on non x86 boxes...
(Apple dosn't make money on MacOs.. thats purely to add value to the Mac so people will buy it... Linux on the Mac dosn't hurt Apple at all)
While Windows NT can and dose run on non X86 chips.. it runs like butt..
If people stop upgrading the X86 chips due to things like 1 pound heatsinks... The X86 dies...
For the first time in history a mega monopoly will find itself with no market...
Naaa Microsoft will go into making computers....
I don't actually exist.
Truthfully, there has to be innovation in the way that cases are being made anyhow. I know that there are many of us in the IT field who run into problems installing X equipment in Y case due to some problem or another. The major concern has to be that vendors follow a set STANDARD (psst... Microsoft, learn this term) that allows all equipment to fit all motherboards/cases/power supplies. I keep running in to cases where I have remove the internal drive bay assembly to fit RAM in with X mother board, or I have to purchase X adapter tray to make Y drive fit Z case. PCs are supposed to be modular!!! Why would I buy a hard drive that I can't use if I change my case? Why would I buy a CD-ROM mounting kit if I have to buy a new one to fit my case? Why would I buy a new motherboard if I have to replace my case to get the RAM installed??? This is a problem throughout the entire computer industry, and not just hardware. Standards need to be set, and followed. Just because a hardware vendor decides that they want to create a different widget, we shouldn't all have to replace other hardware to make it work.
Deven Phillips, CISSP
Network Architect
Viata Online, Inc.
Wherever you go, there I am...
These processors run at multi GHz speeds. When frequencies get that high they tend to be referred to by radio enthusiasts as the 'Microwave' frequencies, so are the CPUs actually going to be cooking themselves from inside because of the simple fact that they're going so fast?
This might go a little way to explaining why the faster CPU's need such whacking great lumps of metal bolted to them.
If you want to look at it look at http://www.teleport.com/~ffsupprt/spec/, and it'll give you the full specs of it.
Imagine a server farm of multi P4s, duct the hot air away from them and you've got enough warmth there to heat the whole building/street/town depending upon the number of P4's...
This could be a great way of actually SAVING power!
It turns out that, for the Itanium, we will need to buy new furniture and replace our home electrical wiring. The 4-microchip, 100-million-transistor behemoth will require a 600-pound heatsink to dissipate heat from its 1kW of electrical power consumption.
This type of power cannot be carried by regular home wiring, of course, so it is expected that consumers who want an Itanium computer will replace this insufficient equipment to support their new computers.
Fsck this hard drive! Although it probably won't work...
foo = bar/*myPtr;
Check out Project Upper/Mute, an all-around awesome compiler fra
In the final analysis we can know what is savvy or correct at that scale much the same way we know what is savvy or correct at any scale- by looking at it and listening to people who know something about it. There are an awful lot of slashdotters with special knowledge on one thing or another, and many of them post. There are also a lot of slashdotters who say nonsensical things (like "All CPUs consume lots more power as they get more capable", which is not only contradicted by reality but obliterated by the nanotech concept for computations), and there's no label on them reading 'total fool, disregard'. You have to figure that out for yourself.
Personally, when I am confronted with a syllogism like "We often tend to doubt these 'captains of industry' from the safety of our armchairs, here on slashdot, but few of us can ever hope to approach this kind of success.", I find it much easier to stick on the 'total fool, disregard' label. But it can be fun to explain _why_ such a judgement gets made. Someone might even learn something :)
1. Go to your elecreonics retailer (whoever it is..) Get the extra connector and some wire.
2. Go to your local Autoshop (Whoever that is..) and get some 'Scotchblock' connectors.
3. Locate the 12V wires on your ATX, tap in the new connector with the scotchblock connectors.
4. Plug in and fire it up. Job Done.
honestly, the cases will cost at LEAST $100, and i am sure the heatsinks will run you about $30-50 for a cheap one. Think back to when the ppros first came out and how expensive everything for those were, and then imagine how much worse it will be for the P4 price wise since Intel is hurting so bad from the all the fiascos (820, rdram, etc) their marketing department has landed themselves in. Intel HAS to rape the customer in every way with the P4 to make back the money it lost on their previous diasters. looks like it will be thunderbird for me :)
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
Ah, the "Pentium Overdrive" socket.
When the Pentium was in beta, Intel sent preliminary specifications to motherboard manufacturers for a 486 to Pentium upgrade path via the "Pentium Overdrive" socket.
When the Pentium was released, the specification had *changed* and those preliminary "Pentium Overdrive" sockets would *not* work with the new cpu. The upgrade was promised but not delivered.
Imagine my disappointment when, after doing hours of homework to invest in a motherboard with a promised upgrade path, the OEM tells me that my mobo has a non-compliant "Pentium Overdrive" socket.
Later 486 mobo's have the correct implementation, but the only way to tell if your mobo is true Pentium compatible is to call the manufacturer, as there is no socket pinout, color, or other circuitboard trait that identifies it as a non-compliant Pentium mobo.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Who needs a 2 Ghz P4 in the first place??
No sig for you!!
I guess a 1 pound heat sink mean there won't be any laptops in the near future. But there aren't any P4s in the near future from what I understand... so I guess it all works out.
Don't circuits experience electro-migration the higher voltage you put through them? Aren't these chips already running hot? Is there any reason for these fast processors? I think the only reason Intel is pumping up the MHz is because it's all they have to sell. If Intel made SCSI drives they'd focus on faster/cheaper and we'd all have RAID 0 arrays at home.
I'm not buying one of these new chips for a very long time. I'm sticking with my Intel PIII 600.
About a pound, you say? Extra support struts, you say? Big flaming hot chip, you say?
I'm thinking that this will make laptop integration very difficult.
Agreements? Disagreements? Corrections?
-J
Karma: T-rexcellent.
I'm sure Intel will be gald to sell the cases that the P4s will sit in. I'm guessing $200 for a case sounds reasonable to the CEO.
Quality cases go for at least $100. Don't trust those $60 el-cheapo cases; I bought one once, and only two of the slot cover screwholes were actually threaded! Now that case houses my Celeron 466 linux toy, in which the 2 Voodoo2s keep being pushed out of the PCI slot.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
I wonder how many wats the power supply will be, I thought I remember hearing it was gonna be some insane number like 800W, but dont take my word on that one.
But seriously, why does Intel keep doing this. Obviously you cant just keep making the processor larger and larger, and give it more and more power, why dont they try and innovate a little, or a least if they do, tell us about it sometime. I haven't seem much of anything about the 'new' core they have on this thing.
All they are right now are professional overclockers, and they suck at it too.
-- Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people. Guns just make bullets go really, really fast.
Just because Intel is changing something, does not mean that the whole industry will. We will need to keep our eyes out for AMD and others. Of course, Intel has made mistakes before this could be another one. Just because they are an industry leader does not mean that this won't be the next Pinto or Gremlin or something.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
Yet _another_ reason I will be ignoring Intel's offerings next time I buy a CPU.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
Has anyone bothered to contemplate the size of a 1 POUND heat sink? This guy is on serious dope - I've seen the Pentium four and the heat sink is nowhere near that large that it could possibly weigh in at a pound. And for that matter, since when would a one pound heat sink, when spread across the face of a CPU footprint, require FOUR supports on a motherboard? Wake up and smell the troll....
Even casual involvement excludes total freedom by it's inherent nature. John Valby
after I bought a Pentium II 350 Mhz processor in 1998 to be able to get the 100 Mhz bus, that was the end of Intel purchases for me. So I thought, I ended up getting the dual BP6 with a Celeron. But now I am sitting on a KT133 Asus motherboard with a 600 Mhz Duron, that I could upgrade easily to a 1.1 Ghz Thunderbird if I wanted to. All while running on a 200 Mhz FSB with PC133 SDRAM running at 133 Mhz!! Now can I get a comparable situation from Intel for the same amount, or even remotely the same amount of money??? NO. Where should one stick there money, AMD of course. The stock isn't doing to bad these days either. This seems like it just might dent Intel's position even more, do I care... uhhh no!
I'm not using one yet.
Intel should be glad that IT managers still seem to find solace in an "Intel Inside" label.
Heh... so all I have to do is buy an Athlon, eh?
Last I checked, I had to throw out my AMD K6II and my 256MB of RAM and my mobo to upgrade. So what if I have to toss my $65 case and power supply, too? As long as there's enough competition, the new ones shouldn't cost much more.
According to The Register, 2cpu.com's benchmarks of the PentiumIV aka Williamette have been "Satlinised" (or is it Apple'd?;-)
If this lends credence to the benchmarks, which were btw on screenshots as : Drhystone 1262 ; Whetstone 242 ; Eight Queens 2477 . . . . yada yadda but *this is what interests me* : ALU mem bandwidth 1408mb/s, FPU mem bwdth 1520mb/s, then that 400mhz bus really does kick butt and I'm prepared to live with buying a new mobo
I suppose if some daredevil cared to mirror the pages I might email them, but I'm otherwise scaredy today :-(
Idle random thoughts only, you can look the other way now
Development in cars (technological) is 10 times slower than computers. So in fact you should be very glad when you can still use it after one year.
Also, nothing stops you from using your computer after 10 years, with software from 10 year ago.
Be sure to keep some spare parts in stock though.
Quoting from an article on The Register back on August 22:
Albert Yu was asked if he could give a rough idea of when a 2GHz Pentium might ship. Although his response was "I have no idea", Barrett intervened to say that he wasn't at liberty to divulge it. However, Barrett added that the demo used no special cooling. The part was air-cooled.
A 450g heatsink requiring a new case isn't special???? What next?
SANTA CLARA (AFU-NEWS) Today silicon circuit behemoth Intel demoed the Pentium 4 CPU clocked at 2.5GHz The presence of an anchor from the Queen Mary bolted to the top of the CPU was described by Albert Yu, Senior Intel VP, as "normal cooling." Versions of the CPU running at lower clock speeds could be cooled by bolting them to anvils, manhole covers and recycled steel plates from the heads of Intel marketing folks. "A special cabinet may be required," he added.
Vote Naked 2000
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
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Besides the technological advance, as Sid Meier's would have called it, this might have a huge impact on the market as it will definitely slow down the sales because of people's looking forward to increase the price/perfomance of their next purchase.
We saw the same phenomenon when Microsoft announced Windows95 without delivering it, hence slowing down the sales of people like Norton or whoever else having the 95 version of their products ready but without the possibility of selling neither W95 nor W3x versions as the market was congested by a constipated giant.
Now, you didn't tell us about the RAM but I also think the standard will, once again change here and only big OEMs (Dell, Compaq, etc.) will win while small OEMs might have much more problems with their existing stock which price they have to cut even shorter.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
what the living hell are those freaky guys over at intel thinking anyways? this leaves no upgrade path for existing intel customers, unless they can make more "overdrive" processors for slot-1 and -2 mobos. which means that anyone who wants a p4 is going to need a new case & power supply, mobo, and cpu. oh, and probably some rambus rdram.
meanwhile, back in sunnyvale, amd offers smaller, faster, better cpus which actually provide an upgrade path for existing customers.
it seems like intel just keeps getting more and more introverted. when will they find a clue?
perhaps once the low-end celeron-style p4s come out, they will have some sort of upgrade path...
--
A perfect chip for an Internet Toaster-oven, and Internet Freezer-defroster ;-)
"Open code, in other words, can be a check on state power." -Lawrence Lessig
I thought it was a given that microprocessors had the capability of hitting even higher speeds, but that the biggest problem was with heat. We were going to have to be looking at new physical setups anyway, weren't we? If not with the P4, then with the P6, etc?
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
I can cook my eggs on my P4 heatsink. The only problem is, I have to cook in the dark, because if I turn the lights on at the same time as the computer, it blows the breaker. :-)
Here I sit in front of a P2 233. I write stuff in Perl. The most taxing thing I run is Outlook.
At home I have a Duron 600. I play games. The most taxing thing I run is Unreal Tournament.
Fact is, most office applications are fine on a low spec machine, and most home user software (games) is fine midrange. With newer T&L graphics cards the CPU is doing less and less. Unless someone thinks up an entirely new and extremely intensive genre of computing application the average user isn't ever going to need 2GHz chips. Sure, the 3D graphics houses, ISPs, ASPs, and a few bean counters will feel they need that speed, but they can afford a new case.
So why worry? Do you stress because your current case can't take a P3 900 Xeon chip? You're odd if you do.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
I like the comment later on in the artcle that "The RADEON supports IDCT (inverse discreet cosine transfer), which accelerates MPEG2 decoding." Thank goodness they won't be transferring my cosine out in the open, without any protection from prying eyes! I appreciate an MPEG board with a sense of decorum.
Walt
One thing I just thought about: If this is indeed factual, and you will *require* a new case, will Intel patent the design of said case? If you want to run a P-IV are you going to have to buy an OFFICIAL Pentium-IV(or at least Intel sanctioned) case?
Another thing-- Unless they change where the IO block is (where the keyboard, serial, and mouse connectors are), perhaps you could drop it in an ATX case and build your own heat sink? Or will Intel indeed change the very form factor to keep us from doing this?
Hilary Rosen's speech was about her love of money and her desire to roll around naked in a pile of money.
Not a typo. The CPU was $60, and I run it at 950 Mhz. (Yeah, no shit.) However the Motherboard did cost me $220..... Go check pricewatch. It's a duron 600.
Power Power Power! Everything is needing more frikken power! My damned room is gonna sound like a jet airplace by the time I start upgrading to new equipement. POwer plants around the country are going to have to increased thier output because a few thousand people need to power up thier machines. And my damned hyrdo bill is gonna cost me a fortune.
By any chance does this new case generate its own power aswell? Do I just have to replace a rat and or a wheel every six months to run my system?
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
Back in the 40's - 50's people did have to upgrade their home wiring and fuse box to accomodate new-fangled electrical appliances at the time, that were using way more current than what previous appliances did. These appliances were:
Clothes Dryers
Hot Water Heaters
Dish Washers
Air Conditioners
As well as the plethora of other small appliances coming out. Houses simply weren't wired to take the load.
However, I am sure before we see the need for such drastic measures for a computer, we will have a public outcry for better, more efficient software...
I support the EFF - do you?
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
develop a lighter heatsink
or...
by then time the p6 comes out the major weight of the system will be the 20lb cooling system required.
This is just stupid - how much power is this thing pulling? and I thought the 400mhz UltraSparcII's had head problems - yeesh!
Intel is releasing a chip that will require modifications to ATX.
Therefore, it would be worthwhile to assume this chip will consume over 100 watts.
So if air is defined as: the mixture of invisible odorless tasteless gases (Merriam Webster) should we really be calling it compressed air? Boy, does the stuff smell! *is reminded of "Whip-its*
If only I'd used the dictionary this often in college... :-)
Sounds like they're taking the IBM route:
"Looks like we're bleeding market share. Let's see if we can boost sales by making all of our products PROPRIETARY".
Remember MCA? I didn't think so. This kind of thing is what almost killed IBM, I wonder what's going to happen to Intel?
I've been called a "Fucking Dick" by better people than you.
I'm of two minds on this. The ATX design has been a godsend for people like us that fiddle with our boxes all the time. I can't imagine getting rid of my trusted Inwin full tower.
However, this would be the chance to get a sexy new case with blowholes, lucite, and neon lights. Did anyone read the spec in detail to determine if they include fittings for cooling your overclocked CPU with chilled water?
The main problem will be the time it takes for case manufacturers to ramp up production. Making two distinct lines of cases has got to lower their profit margins. Lower profit margins means higher prices to us, the consumer.
Anyone know what AMD thinks about ATX 2.0? Their chips suck power like nobodies business.
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
BTW, S300 (Russian SA missile launcher system) control center contains built-in crane for moving one of the blocks. (Hope I would not be sued for this... Well, karma is more important.)
---
Every secretary using MSWord wastes enough resources
Merriam-Webster defines a case as:
1 a : a box or receptacle for holding something b : a box together with its contents
2 a : an outer covering or housing
My "case" covers nothing and only serves as a receptacle for dust! It sits wide open with various parts hanging out of it at any given time. Why is this P4 going to change anything?
If my new heatsink needs support, I'll buy it a bra with underwire......
Well.. I guess that's progress...
Intel's cases are rather nice (Astor, Columbus, etc) compared to the average crap you find at computer parts stores and on the Internet. We use several for our servers at work, they have nice built in fans, and are designed specifically for their motherboards. I know its a pain you can't use another brand motherboard, but the Intel Server motherboards are quite nice as well.
Chris
Slashdot seems to have anti-Intel mania! Let's see, how may chips HAVEN'T required new cases? Upgrading from socket7 -> Slot 1 usually took a new power supply, 486-> Pentium did too (AT -> ATX) and for my Dell 300MHz, upgrading to an Athlon is going to require a new case and power supply as well. (Dell makes very small power supplies.) Seriously, though, it's not Intel's fault. You're complaining that a 1.5GHz chip takes more power. Well, duh! Most Athlon upgrades take more power too. As for the extra power connecters, at 1.5+GHz, there are probably too many electrical concerns to not put them in. The screws probably can't be helped either. This sucker is going to make a lot of heat, and I don't think Intel wants another Slot1 fiasco (chips flopping out of the slot.) AMD's new Athlons aren't going to be any better, in fact, at .15micron (compared to .13 micron) they're going to make even more heat (Athlon's do anyway) and use more current than the P4.
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Sir, please allow me to offer you a penis bird.
I hear it is great relief for constipation, such as what you appear to be suffering.
<O
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Since this article is simply citing information from SharkyExtreme (the original of which is linked), it is not Slashdot who you are calling into question here, but SE, who claims to have gotten the info directly from Intel, at their Developer's Forum, and it doesn't seem they have any reason to lie....
Perhaps we should consider the true source here, rather than questioning it because it's on Slashdot.
However, I have the feeling that Intel might not be the strong market leader any more. It wasn't long ago when few people had a non-Intel CPU in their PC...but amongst people I know, an increasing number are turning to the Athlon rather than the Pentium. It could be that the P4 design might actually set Intel back quite a bit if PC manufacturers decide it'd be easier/cheaper to supply AMD chips instead.
To quote Douglas Adams, I think Intel are just about to be first against the wall when the revolution came.
This whole P4 heat thing reminds me of a comment made in a magazine back when the Pentium 60 was new. A magazine reviewer made a simple remark:
"It overheats and it's crap".
A nice, eloquent and to-the-point description of the original P60 from those who usually feel they need to waffle! And it looks like history is repeating itself...
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Looks like Intel decided that we're out of shape and need to get a workout in. Could you imagine if you got a dual P4 -- or God forbid, a quad? Shit, you're talking over 4 pounds in heat sink alone! Let alone the power supply, sheet metal for the case, and the air conditioner to cool your room down (the heat has to go somewhere doesn't it?). Move all this stuff around a couple times and you'll be ripped!
On the other hand, I guess you could toss out the fireplace and just roast marshmallows by the warmth of your computer.
(singing) Chestnuts roasting on an open case...
Dude, both of you should listen to that penis bird guy. If he can overcome the death of his penis bird than you two can work out your differences. The Dude
Assuming this is true, it makes you wonder what the hell they think they're doing with their chips. A heatsink that's too big to fit in current standard cases? Sounds like a standard overclocker's nightmare . . . and kinda suggests that's what Intel's doing . . .
The scariest thing is that these P4 chips aren't going to be any faster, clock for clock, than Athlons (again, assuming that articles I've seen around are reasonably reliable). Why can't Intel manage to come up with something like that? Why do they have to keep on using a brute force solution (More clock speed! And damn the torpedoes(sp?)) to something that AMD seems to have found a relatively elegant solution to?
Argh . . . Just one more reason to lose respect for those suckas . . .
himi
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My very own DeCSS mirror.
Someone already has.
Evergreen Technologies has the Accelera PCI which takes a Celeron CPU and a PC100 SODIMM on a PCI card. However, this doesn't yield as much gain as the apple upgrades, since PCI wasn't built with the bandwidth necessary to support an extra CPU.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
A one pound heatsink? I don't think we'll be seeing the P4-powered laptop anytime soon. Then again, what are you doing with your laptop that you need more than 800MHz or so?
" There are two companies today that hold the majority of control over where the PC is heading. AMD isn't one of them, VIA isn't one of them, and no, Apple isn't one of them either. The companies are Intel and Microsoft, and their influence goes further than you think."
What the hell? He thinks that Intel and Microsoft are leading the way? After the first paragraph, I stopped reading.... I'm definitely all about AMD now, more than ever. Did he forget about Sun, Red Hat, Caldera, etc... or is he just "so" impressed by the P4, that he thinks it's the only way to go????
Can you imagine what this is going to do to the laptop market? How do they expect to offer a P4 laptop when it requires a 1 pound heat sink? I'm having flashbacks to the "lunchbox" portables!
Granted, little is known about exactly what the P4 is supposed to do, and why it needs so much power, but I doubt that such a big change was really necessary.
When AMD decided to make a higher-powered CPU, they simply used the existing platform, but then again, they don't have the kind of clout Intel does when it comes to these kinds of things. Anyhow, AMD just created a list of recommended power supplies that matched their spec on the existing interface. Why can't Intel do the same? Do they really feel the need to up the power by so much to require all this extra stuff?
Apparently so. This wasn't a decision to gain consumers, it was a decision to attack their competition (look, we have all this stuff and they don't; it must mean we're better). People who buy OEM machines won't be all that affected, though, as they're bying the whole package anyhow. Those of us who like to pick-and-choose our parts are probably going to look elsewhere for at least the next couple of years. I know I will. I intend to keep that sweet Supermicro 750A around for a long time. Goodbye, Intel.
I don't know about you, but my servers run on the power of cotton candy and happy thoughts. -Anonymous Coward
This is going to kill my karma but there's no way I can keep quite ....
... I hear there's this company called AMD and they make decent CPUs that cost less and give comparable if not better performance to the Intel chips, but for hundreds less! I'm sick of this attitude that for stability and reliability you buy Intel. It's single minded purchasing like this that keeps innovation out of the marketplace.
:)
Ok, if you're unhappy about Intel why sit there and whine about it? Do something that will make Intel think twice about pulling dumb shit like this. BUY A COMPETING CHIP! I know it's crazy but
Disclaimer: I run and AMD Athalon 800 / Soyo SY-K7VIA / Geforce256 / SB Live rock solid under both SuSE 6.3 and Win98SE. So I may be a bit biased
I recently inherited an ancient 386 from my father, and I threw myself into the task of installing Linux on it and slapping it into some kind of decent shape. The software side was pretty much no problem, but the machine was housed in a monstrous 286 case which is so big and heavy that I'm convinced it contains lead weights.
So, the last phase of the whole makeover was to drop all the guts into a new case. I was greatly dismayed to discover how difficult it is to find old AT-style cases, especially if you have something specific in mind (I wanted a very small mini-tower).
I don't appreciate yet another change. Is it not possible to design a case that is versatile enough to accommodate advances in technology?
I mean, look at the ridiculous mileage that the industry has milked out of the whole x86 architecture. If chipmakers can do that, can't they do the same with the case? The ATX case, by comparison, had a pretty darned short life.
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
For those true CPU hogs, "you've gotta catch em all".
Does anybody really need that much juice anyways? Just buy that super duper video card.
Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
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Penis bird industries (Nasdaq sympol PNIS)
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X
8===D
Well, I don't know what the hell your talking about, possibly comparing the most packed Alta-vec instruction to regular instructions on a pIII, mac-heads (and other types of zelots) seem to do that a lot, and its always just as annoying.
Asside from your fucked up, bassless 'math' the benchmarks show a very diffrent story, the G4 is faster then a pIII at the same speed, but no where near twice the speed. like 1.2 or 1.3 times as fast. This intel chip is running at nearly 3 times the clock speed, there is no way a g4 could keep up with that, ever.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Maybe this overly simplistic but.. Doing more stuff requires more power. More power means more heat. The End.
Just means that ovens and stoves will get internet access before toasters and platewarmers.
you are a dick.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Yes, but you have been able to put two or even four intel chips in one case since, like, 1992. The guy next door to me is running dual p3's right now. and unlike Mac Users, us wintel people actualy have a non-beta OS that can use them, actualy a choice of several.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
My guess is that the P4 is so power-hungry that it's right on the ragged edge of what they can make actually work - which means that more reliability problems may well lie ahead.
Makes you wonder how big a heat sink the Itanium's gonna need...
And I think we can expect to wait a while for the first P4 laptop - or at least the first with decent battery life...
Here is a list of parts/equipment for jerry-rigging you ATX case to accept a P4 chip/board:
1. 1 Dremmel Mototool
2. 1 Can Premium Lager (For after)
3. 1xHot Glue Gun
4. 2xWine Cork (cut in half)
Instructions:
Preparation
Using the Dremmel, remove any pieces of steel from your existing ATX case that may be blocking your shiny new P4 mainboard. Loosly mount the board in your ATXcase, and mark the screw holes. Using the Dremmel again, drill out the neccessary holes. Roughly mark the area BELOW the processor. Using the Hot Glue Gun, mount the cork halves on the marked area under the processor. (some shaving may be required)
Installation
Re-mount the main board, processor and RAM in the ATX case, and secure with screws (Be sure the cork is not too high, hairline fractures are a bad thing)
Drink the can of Lager while booting up your new P4 in an ATX Case!
Note: You will still need to buy a new power supply (More on how to rig the old one in my next post)
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
OK, fair enough. I've never seen an Intel case, and I figured maybe it was a marketing thing. I didn't even know they *made* cases; guess I need to re-edumacate myself.
Acting stupid isn't much fun when there's someone around who knows better
Come on this is another intel pain in the ass, hope fully this will not be like the c440gx board requiring a case the only intel sells to work properly and have the right powersupply i mean come on $1200 for a case for a machine thats kinda insane, and i am sure not buying a new cause i will modify the $750 server chassie that i have right now any whoo the next chip i am buying from intel will be dual or quad itaniums just becuase there going to be the best stuff out there for graphics :)
-intel musn't die i they have to much of my money :)
I have an AMD duron, and it runs cold at 650 Mhz. The core voltage is a puny 1.6V. The processor uses less power then any I've ever owned. The motherboard came with software to SLOW DOWN THE FANS when the cpu temp is low, and my fans have been running at fractionnal spped (Nice and quiet) since i plugged it in. Where do you get these crazy ideas.
BTW. Screw intel, buy a duron. $60 and I can run it at 950Mhz with no problems! (Oh, and it fits in my ATX tower)
Since my last upgrade was from 300MHZ to 500, both AMD and i just spent more cash on my case than the chip including shipping and that took about two years. I figure I'll be getting one of these new fangled 1GHZ machines sometime around 2004 or so. By then I'm hoping for implants directly to my cortex so I'm not that miffed, just unimpressed.
on a side note the P4 is going to be aircooled just like all chips are (as manufactured) Why don't AMD or Intel just do what we'll do to the chips when we get them from the git go. Water cool them or super air cool them or use some kind of advanced peltier system? Anything to show that they are thinking ahead. I'd be more willing to accept water in my PC than a 1 pound heatsink.
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I know this because in 1980 I was tutoring a EE and Chem double major, who told me that she had a friend using it to remove caffeine from coffee.
Here is some links:
CO2 Decaf Sin! Do you drink too much coffee?
Co2 in paintball
Fight Spammers!
You realize that 'sodomy' includes oral sex when practiced by heterosexuals, right? That makes most straight people I know 'sodomites'. Hell, many of 'em even do anal sex.
So, just from the ignorant and bigoted tone of your note, I'm pretty sure you don't know many gay people at all. And you're mostly probably slamming yourself with your own statement (ever given or received oral sex? You're a sodomite!)
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
Wow. P4 laptops are gonna be a bitch. ;)
\//
Gorkman
This may seem stupid.. but on the boxes of UPS's they have a table setup so that you can see how long the UPS will last on different types of Pentiums (II's use more than I's, III's use more than II's), etc.. With a whole new power supply, how much of an effect will this have on UPS's?
Alpha has been shrinking EV6's, so I guess power has gone down--but clock speeds are about to go up big time, so power will go up, as well. I'm sure EV7 will be quite power-hungry. Alpha's do seem to have better power-scalability than do Intel processors, not really sure why. Irregardless, Alpha engineers and thoroughly uninterested in saving power, so I wouldn't expect the current trend of lower power Alpha's (if there is one) to continue.
I know a lot of gay people, and NONE of them would ever stoop to copying tcd004's styles.
- Spryguy
- Spryguy
There are three kinds of people in this world: those that can count and those that can't
sure, the k7 generates lots of heat; but its on socket-A (no special motherboard support needed) and while the power supply is MORE crucial for the k7 than the p3, you can easily find a compatible/recommended PS for your athlon.
intel seems to intiquate things WAY too soon for my liking. just another nail on the coffin for them...
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
You are so ready for Crusoe.
(get those chips out here dammit)