Then I'm sure that you'd prefer to deal with Russia and China, where crime and corruption is so deep that the US can't match. Freedom is measured in connections and money to a much higher degree than you could ascribe to the US.
In the US, the average citizen enjoys more freedom than could ever be had by citizens of countries run by Snowden's new (and fair-weather) friends.
Find him, grab him, put him through the most excruciating interrogation, then go from there. He'll talk, given that he's not likely to have had formal training in resisting interrogations, much less from the US.
Mass releases won't help if they're matched with an entity (the United States) that can make it perilous for all of them to try.
The information may appear favorable but the problem is that he acts against all citizens given his cowardice and allegiance to the enemies of the United States. Those enemies are Russia, China and their allies that oppose the US, not the citizens of the US. He acts only against the US - with no secrets released that are damaging to Russia or China.
The best course of action is to quietly offer pardons and other favorable offers for anyone in the US that acts towards ending the Snowden problem on US soil. Encourage allies of the US to do the same in their own countries as well as to US-based actors. If that means making the whole "angle-grinding" affair look nice, then fine. The message to the unauthorized holders of classified information (that is, information that the public at large has no need to know) is that siding with Snowden puts them at great peril - with an equal amount of surprise.
Of course, this won't please people who have modbombed me with the various forms of (-1, Disagree and Disappear this opinion) instead of deciding to reply.
They wont be hurting for work, since they have proven themselves by getting hired by the NSA - not an easy task. Those people would provide another entity a competitive advantage for their knowledge and skillsets. They wouldnt have to bother with people that would discount competence just for being associated with the government.
The Snowden types, on the other hand, would have trouble due to their recorded disloyalty to their employer overriding any technical competence. They would represent a risk to an employer that is exemplified by action at an employer, not presumption by association with the NSA.
I wouldnt discount someone that worked at the NSA, but would welcome them.
I'd think that there was a similar morale drop in the 1970's, but the NSA has managed to survive that decade unscathed. Once Snowden is finally stopped (not an if, but when), the morale will eventually go back up like it did in the 1980s.
Some people aren't fit to have a security clearance. For some people, they learn that when they learn that they can't get a clearance. Others learn that when they break the rules and lose their clearance. Snowden was one of the latter and thinks that he's more special than anyone else than releases secrets - just because he contains PR-friendly ones.
It gets even better: The upcoming generation of Thinkpads are making the keyboards worse in two more ways:
* Color Scheme - Even more removed from the Thinkpad line due to the removal of the blue highlight color. * Function keys? You'll have to press FN-Esc to get them. They call it "Windows 8" optimization.
The best bit, is pretty much every Thinkpad owner complained, so they did a big public announcement calling all their customers idiots and telling them they are wrong, and that they'll come to love the rubbish direction Lenovo is moving in. That's a fucking awesome way to run a business...
Which one? Kohut has repeatedly done that (especially with Flexview - something that finally has returned in the W540) in his defense of Lenovo's design decisions. The only announcement I've seen is their "it's evolution" announcement about making their Thinkpads in "graphite black" gray - and it doesn't seem to imply that they're wrong.
About the only thing that Lenovo gets right may end up being their service department - see my parent post about it. It's part of what's kept my laptops working well out of warranty (in addition to part interchangeability).
Given that this kind of stuff happens, I just order from the high end and then make it last. It's served me well for the four generations that I've dealt w/ Thinkpads (A31p/T42p/T60p/W520) such that they can do their job. The less friendly something is to service, the less likely it will be designed to last.
In addition, I've also seen an degradation in quality in the contractors that come by to do service. When I had my T42p repaired, there was a good chance of getting a full-badged employee (or someone competent enough) to fix it for NBD onsite service. Today, the same service level is more likely to get a bottom-dollar contractor that doesn't do it as a main line of their work (where my last W520 had a satellite TV contractor come in).
I've stayed *very* far away from the "gaming" portables given their unbalanced nature. They're made by ODM's that have little-to-no documentation or parts, making them unreliable and hard to service as time passes by. Those machines are why I've bought Thinkpads, since IBM/Lenovo made it a point to make a good design (where the battery is not simply a 50min UPS, but a 3-5h+ power source on a mobile workstation).
To get anything redeeming out of Dell, you have to order from the business-oriented laptops - such as their Precision line. The biggest drawbacks are that you end up having to pay more to get the same feature set, have to go through a bureaucracy to transfer ownership for support, and have the same problems with support as regular Dell machines. The only upside is that some
On the other hand, Lenovo still has the service and support, but is bastardizing their Thinkpad line in every way possible. Buying the Thinkpad line meant that you could get away from all the things that Lenovo now wants to put in it - lower quality consumer-grade features. While the W540(about the closest thing to the flagship of the Thinkpad line) brings back Flexview, it takes away the Thinkpad black form factor that has been there since the beginning(replacing it with a "graphite black), and has the PCjr chiclet keyboard.
I just hope that Colorware isn't the only practical option for correcting Lenovo's wish to make the Thinkpad a not-Thinkpad.
Of course not, both issues are important enough that they can be discussed on their own instead of bundling them together every fucking time. "But the Chinese..." is getting to be a bit of a worn out excuse by now don't you think?
Nope. The Chinese have yet to demonstrate that they are not a threat, and are thus a necessary part of the discussion.
This isn't about China, this is about Cisco and similar that have left backdoors that apparently hundreds of thousands of private contractors know about. Don't you think that is a big enough deal? What happens when one of that huge number of people has a money problem and sees the backdoor as a solution? What happens when the NSA does a Boeing vs Airbus again and you happen to be at the place with less political connections then get hit with taxpayer funded industrial espionage?
The Airbus deal was as bad as Dubai Ports and Huawei - all threats to national security. Thankfully all of them were rejected.
As for the private contractor, that's a question of controls, policy, and vetting of candidates for integrity. In your hypothetical case, the contractor gets canned and receives justice through the court system.
Thankfully, I haven't worked for a company in the United Statesthat is foreign-controlled such as Airbus, nor do I plan to do so.
Why shouldn't we know a vector by which criminals and (foreign) spooks can get trade secrets?
That is precisely why China deserves more attention. If Snowden had released stuff that was damning on Huawei, other PRC-linked "companies", or any Russian interests, he would be releasing redeeming information.
...since 'Murica has been railing about how the Chinese are infiltrating their stuff (while alleged to have done the same thing), and complaining about countries which restrict a free internet...
Given that the US has yet to do things that the other countries do to their networks, no moral high ground has been lost. The US doesn't censor to the degree that the BRIC countries do(no Great Firewall for example) and doesn't monitor like the other ones do(without *any* regard for a crime). The US is still bound by the Constitution, which makes it hard for the NSA to do what Third World countries do easily(which is to monitor without a specific purpose). The only thing that you could claim is that the US does it cleaner than everyone else.
If those other countries don't care for US equipment, then it will reflect badly on them when they receive lesser performing equipment - while being spied on by China. It's their choice - have lower performance and active espionage from a despotic country(China), or higher performance and possible monitoring from a First World country(the United States of America).
Had someone decided to keep secrets secret, sales would have been unaffected. The improper disclosure is what is harming the economy, not the NSA.
On the other hand, he has said nothing about Huawei, a government-linked/owned entity with security issues (never mind their theft of Nortel IP). Their association is even closer and damaging than what Snowden alleges of the NSA - given Huawei's rightful rejection in the US and Australia.
In addition to adding drones to its workforce, Balfour Beatty is exploring the possibility of incorporating “body area networks” into its work-sites. Such networks consist of wearable tech devices that monitor various bodily functions such as heart rate, stress levels, and hydration. For companies, the idea is that such networks could alert management when individual workers stress or fatigue levels make them ineffective on the job, or even a danger to themselves and others.
If anything, it'd be more likely to be used to get rid of soueone that is hard to fire(e.g. whistleblower, minority, union support) while maintaining a clean excuse. They'd just point to the sensors and fire/not renew the contract of the worker.
Who would benefit from the lack of a Western presence in Indonesia to counter human trafficking (and the terrorism that comes with it)? It wouldn't be ordinary Australian, Indonesian, or American citizens, but would be human traffickers and terrorists that benefit from a lack of oversight. By asking the question "cui bono?", Snowden's disclosure can be proven to be harmful to ordinary people - in at least this case.
Given how much terrorism already goes through that part of the world, Snowden's actions only made things worse. This is a clear case where he is shown to desire to cause harm instead of benefit. There is no heroic position in providing information that *will* help terrorists.
If anything, it means that Australia (and by extension, the US) has(have) a new justification for military action in that part of the country - should Indonesia wish to side with interests hostile with the West. Realistically, Indonesia is probably not going to do anything adverse against Australia beyond saber rattling - they need Australia more than Australia needs Indonesia.
The problem with that is it allows enough time to replace people who end up doing the same thing. The worst that happens is that you get the Nixon situation where nearly everyone gets pardoned and Snowden falls just short of his goal. The NSA has seen his kind before and will route around the damage that he is causing.
In the short run, he may score a PR victory. In the long run, he will fail.
Intelligence operations aren't like building a new bridge in a congressional district. Chances are that most people want the bridge, welcome the jobs and spending in the district, will think highly of the congressman for getting it (if needed), many people will use the bridge when it's completed, and people might even vote for the congressman in the future. By definition the target of an intelligence operation isn't going to want it, will avoid its consequences if possible, might try to capture or kill the people involved with the operation, and might even completely avoid things associated with it in the future.
That's what Snowden is not understanding - his actions are having unintended consequences. He's taking the idea of "National security be damned" to new levels with his PR campaign. That is the precise attitude that will not only endanger US citizens, but will eventually endanger his own life - whether he runs out of information (and the NSA survives) or some private citizen gets to be the most lucky person in the world for taking him out.
To preempt the "but our current president is doing the same thing": You think that he doesn't mind damaging the NSA too? They may not be on the same page, but they certainly are within the same chapter of the same book.
When will we hear about what China and Russia are doing from Snowden? That would be some very nasty information, but it would redeem his character. It might also make it a bit easier to be lenient at his eventual conviction.
(oh, and by the way, modbombing the unpleasant truth about Snowden doesn't make your case better.)
Odd how the US and Russia traded their places in the good vs bad game, eh?
Given the level of corruption that exists in Russia, the US has a long way to go before they "trade sides". As for what was alleged in Germany, that's what the NSA's supposed to do as a line of their work.
But frankly, going back to the US would be about the dumbest thing he could possibly do. What for? To stand in a kangaroo court? C'mon. So he can say why he did it? He can do that already. He really has nothing to gain from turning himself in.
That is the only way that the truth can really be uncovered. Just because the evidence would all but guarantee a conviction != kangaroo court.
In addition, he's more likely to live if he turns himself in versus being pursued by those working for the US. Same would go for those that received the information or talked to him.
Espionage is not supposed to be something that is pleasant or glamorous - but it is necessary to preserve the way of life that only can be had in the US.
Slashdot Mirror
Then I'm sure that you'd prefer to deal with Russia and China, where crime and corruption is so deep that the US can't match. Freedom is measured in connections and money to a much higher degree than you could ascribe to the US.
In the US, the average citizen enjoys more freedom than could ever be had by citizens of countries run by Snowden's new (and fair-weather) friends.
When you're working with an entity at the size and capability of the United States, that will likely not happen.
Find him, grab him, put him through the most excruciating interrogation, then go from there. He'll talk, given that he's not likely to have had formal training in resisting interrogations, much less from the US.
Mass releases won't help if they're matched with an entity (the United States) that can make it perilous for all of them to try.
The information may appear favorable but the problem is that he acts against all citizens given his cowardice and allegiance to the enemies of the United States. Those enemies are Russia, China and their allies that oppose the US, not the citizens of the US. He acts only against the US - with no secrets released that are damaging to Russia or China.
The best course of action is to quietly offer pardons and other favorable offers for anyone in the US that acts towards ending the Snowden problem on US soil. Encourage allies of the US to do the same in their own countries as well as to US-based actors. If that means making the whole "angle-grinding" affair look nice, then fine. The message to the unauthorized holders of classified information (that is, information that the public at large has no need to know) is that siding with Snowden puts them at great peril - with an equal amount of surprise.
Of course, this won't please people who have modbombed me with the various forms of (-1, Disagree and Disappear this opinion) instead of deciding to reply.
They wont be hurting for work, since they have proven themselves by getting hired by the NSA - not an easy task. Those people would provide another entity a competitive advantage for their knowledge and skillsets. They wouldnt have to bother with people that would discount competence just for being associated with the government.
The Snowden types, on the other hand, would have trouble due to their recorded disloyalty to their employer overriding any technical competence. They would represent a risk to an employer that is exemplified by action at an employer, not presumption by association with the NSA.
I wouldnt discount someone that worked at the NSA, but would welcome them.
I'd think that there was a similar morale drop in the 1970's, but the NSA has managed to survive that decade unscathed. Once Snowden is finally stopped (not an if, but when), the morale will eventually go back up like it did in the 1980s.
Some people aren't fit to have a security clearance. For some people, they learn that when they learn that they can't get a clearance. Others learn that when they break the rules and lose their clearance. Snowden was one of the latter and thinks that he's more special than anyone else than releases secrets - just because he contains PR-friendly ones.
If there's an example of what wrath is, this case should be one of the textbook examples.
Unlike Google, at least this product was made available to the general public on its release, not to a select few.
Then again, has Google ever not applied the Stanford snobbery of the invite system on a product?
It gets even better:
The upcoming generation of Thinkpads are making the keyboards worse in two more ways:
* Color Scheme - Even more removed from the Thinkpad line due to the removal of the blue highlight color.
* Function keys? You'll have to press FN-Esc to get them. They call it "Windows 8" optimization.
The best bit, is pretty much every Thinkpad owner complained, so they did a big public announcement calling all their customers idiots and telling them they are wrong, and that they'll come to love the rubbish direction Lenovo is moving in. That's a fucking awesome way to run a business...
Which one? Kohut has repeatedly done that (especially with Flexview - something that finally has returned in the W540) in his defense of Lenovo's design decisions. The only announcement I've seen is their "it's evolution" announcement about making their Thinkpads in "graphite black" gray - and it doesn't seem to imply that they're wrong.
About the only thing that Lenovo gets right may end up being their service department - see my parent post about it. It's part of what's kept my laptops working well out of warranty (in addition to part interchangeability).
Given that this kind of stuff happens, I just order from the high end and then make it last. It's served me well for the four generations that I've dealt w/ Thinkpads (A31p/T42p/T60p/W520) such that they can do their job. The less friendly something is to service, the less likely it will be designed to last.
In addition, I've also seen an degradation in quality in the contractors that come by to do service. When I had my T42p repaired, there was a good chance of getting a full-badged employee (or someone competent enough) to fix it for NBD onsite service. Today, the same service level is more likely to get a bottom-dollar contractor that doesn't do it as a main line of their work (where my last W520 had a satellite TV contractor come in).
I've stayed *very* far away from the "gaming" portables given their unbalanced nature. They're made by ODM's that have little-to-no documentation or parts, making them unreliable and hard to service as time passes by. Those machines are why I've bought Thinkpads, since IBM/Lenovo made it a point to make a good design (where the battery is not simply a 50min UPS, but a 3-5h+ power source on a mobile workstation).
To get anything redeeming out of Dell, you have to order from the business-oriented laptops - such as their Precision line. The biggest drawbacks are that you end up having to pay more to get the same feature set, have to go through a bureaucracy to transfer ownership for support, and have the same problems with support as regular Dell machines. The only upside is that some
On the other hand, Lenovo still has the service and support, but is bastardizing their Thinkpad line in every way possible. Buying the Thinkpad line meant that you could get away from all the things that Lenovo now wants to put in it - lower quality consumer-grade features. While the W540(about the closest thing to the flagship of the Thinkpad line) brings back Flexview, it takes away the Thinkpad black form factor that has been there since the beginning(replacing it with a "graphite black), and has the PCjr chiclet keyboard.
I just hope that Colorware isn't the only practical option for correcting Lenovo's wish to make the Thinkpad a not-Thinkpad.
Of course not, both issues are important enough that they can be discussed on their own instead of bundling them together every fucking time. "But the Chinese ..." is getting to be a bit of a worn out excuse by now don't you think?
Nope. The Chinese have yet to demonstrate that they are not a threat, and are thus a necessary part of the discussion.
This isn't about China, this is about Cisco and similar that have left backdoors that apparently hundreds of thousands of private contractors know about. Don't you think that is a big enough deal? What happens when one of that huge number of people has a money problem and sees the backdoor as a solution? What happens when the NSA does a Boeing vs Airbus again and you happen to be at the place with less political connections then get hit with taxpayer funded industrial espionage?
The Airbus deal was as bad as Dubai Ports and Huawei - all threats to national security. Thankfully all of them were rejected.
As for the private contractor, that's a question of controls, policy, and vetting of candidates for integrity. In your hypothetical case, the contractor gets canned and receives justice through the court system.
Thankfully, I haven't worked for a company in the United Statesthat is foreign-controlled such as Airbus, nor do I plan to do so.
Why shouldn't we know a vector by which criminals and (foreign) spooks can get trade secrets?
That is precisely why China deserves more attention. If Snowden had released stuff that was damning on Huawei, other PRC-linked "companies", or any Russian interests, he would be releasing redeeming information.
...since 'Murica has been railing about how the Chinese are infiltrating their stuff (while alleged to have done the same thing), and complaining about countries which restrict a free internet...
Given that the US has yet to do things that the other countries do to their networks, no moral high ground has been lost. The US doesn't censor to the degree that the BRIC countries do(no Great Firewall for example) and doesn't monitor like the other ones do(without *any* regard for a crime). The US is still bound by the Constitution, which makes it hard for the NSA to do what Third World countries do easily(which is to monitor without a specific purpose). The only thing that you could claim is that the US does it cleaner than everyone else.
If those other countries don't care for US equipment, then it will reflect badly on them when they receive lesser performing equipment - while being spied on by China. It's their choice - have lower performance and active espionage from a despotic country(China), or higher performance and possible monitoring from a First World country(the United States of America).
Had someone decided to keep secrets secret, sales would have been unaffected. The improper disclosure is what is harming the economy, not the NSA.
On the other hand, he has said nothing about Huawei, a government-linked/owned entity with security issues (never mind their theft of Nortel IP). Their association is even closer and damaging than what Snowden alleges of the NSA - given Huawei's rightful rejection in the US and Australia.
(Think about it before pressing -1, Disagree.)
In addition to adding drones to its workforce, Balfour Beatty is exploring the possibility of incorporating “body area networks” into its work-sites. Such networks consist of wearable tech devices that monitor various bodily functions such as heart rate, stress levels, and hydration. For companies, the idea is that such networks could alert management when individual workers stress or fatigue levels make them ineffective on the job, or even a danger to themselves and others.
If anything, it'd be more likely to be used to get rid of soueone that is hard to fire(e.g. whistleblower, minority, union support) while maintaining a clean excuse. They'd just point to the sensors and fire/not renew the contract of the worker.
Who would benefit from the lack of a Western presence in Indonesia to counter human trafficking (and the terrorism that comes with it)? It wouldn't be ordinary Australian, Indonesian, or American citizens, but would be human traffickers and terrorists that benefit from a lack of oversight. By asking the question "cui bono?", Snowden's disclosure can be proven to be harmful to ordinary people - in at least this case.
Given how much terrorism already goes through that part of the world, Snowden's actions only made things worse. This is a clear case where he is shown to desire to cause harm instead of benefit. There is no heroic position in providing information that *will* help terrorists.
If anything, it means that Australia (and by extension, the US) has(have) a new justification for military action in that part of the country - should Indonesia wish to side with interests hostile with the West. Realistically, Indonesia is probably not going to do anything adverse against Australia beyond saber rattling - they need Australia more than Australia needs Indonesia.
The problem with that is it allows enough time to replace people who end up doing the same thing. The worst that happens is that you get the Nixon situation where nearly everyone gets pardoned and Snowden falls just short of his goal. The NSA has seen his kind before and will route around the damage that he is causing.
In the short run, he may score a PR victory. In the long run, he will fail.
They can't go into details since they don't want to violate the same rule that Snowden is regularly breaking.
Intelligence operations aren't like building a new bridge in a congressional district. Chances are that most people want the bridge, welcome the jobs and spending in the district, will think highly of the congressman for getting it (if needed), many people will use the bridge when it's completed, and people might even vote for the congressman in the future. By definition the target of an intelligence operation isn't going to want it, will avoid its consequences if possible, might try to capture or kill the people involved with the operation, and might even completely avoid things associated with it in the future.
That's what Snowden is not understanding - his actions are having unintended consequences. He's taking the idea of "National security be damned" to new levels with his PR campaign. That is the precise attitude that will not only endanger US citizens, but will eventually endanger his own life - whether he runs out of information (and the NSA survives) or some private citizen gets to be the most lucky person in the world for taking him out.
To preempt the "but our current president is doing the same thing": You think that he doesn't mind damaging the NSA too? They may not be on the same page, but they certainly are within the same chapter of the same book.
When will we hear about what China and Russia are doing from Snowden? That would be some very nasty information, but it would redeem his character. It might also make it a bit easier to be lenient at his eventual conviction.
(oh, and by the way, modbombing the unpleasant truth about Snowden doesn't make your case better.)
Their job is to spy. Unfortunately, terrorists would rather use proper enforcement (as you wished it to happen) to hide.
If you have to find the needle, you have to go through the whole haystack.
Kind of hard to itemize things that lack documentation - especially if it would harm things by being documented.
Odd how the US and Russia traded their places in the good vs bad game, eh?
Given the level of corruption that exists in Russia, the US has a long way to go before they "trade sides". As for what was alleged in Germany, that's what the NSA's supposed to do as a line of their work.
But frankly, going back to the US would be about the dumbest thing he could possibly do. What for? To stand in a kangaroo court? C'mon. So he can say why he did it? He can do that already. He really has nothing to gain from turning himself in.
That is the only way that the truth can really be uncovered. Just because the evidence would all but guarantee a conviction != kangaroo court.
In addition, he's more likely to live if he turns himself in versus being pursued by those working for the US. Same would go for those that received the information or talked to him.
Espionage is not supposed to be something that is pleasant or glamorous - but it is necessary to preserve the way of life that only can be had in the US.