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Feinstein and Rogers: No Clemency For Snowden
Ars Technica reports, probably to no one's surprise, that U.S. elected officials are unlikely to start seeing Edward Snowden as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government. From the article:"[Sunday], the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), and her House counterpart, Mike Rogers (R-MI), both emphasized there would be no mercy coming from Washington. 'He was trusted; he stripped our system; he had an opportunity—if what he was, was a whistle-blower—to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation. 'But that didn’t happen. He’s done this enormous disservice to our country, and I think the answer is no clemency.'"
He'd be kept quiet one way or another.
"f what he was, was a whistle-blowerâ"to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee,"
Those thugs continue to support government spying on citizens. Whistleblowing does nothing unless it's brought to the attention of someone who both cares and is in a position to do something.
BTW, Mike Rogers is complaining that "Federal data hub threatens privacy," with regard to the Federal Data Services Hub, a component of the health insurance exchanges created by Obamacare, but supports the NSA. He's a disingenuous hypocrite.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
he and others did and were ignored or worse prosecuted.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-09/world/39856622_1_intelligence-powers-single-point
...there is still the death penalty.
Does anyone actually believe that if he had gone to the Senate or the House that anything would change, that the concerns would have been addressed?
By the measure you use, it will be measured up to you. It might have been outrageous to think so before, but maybe there will come a day where you'll have to answer for what you did - and risk losing something more than reelection prospects.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
U.S. elected officials are unlikely to start seeing Edward Snowden as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government.
Then it seems unlikely that the people will see U.S. elected officials as something else than traitors to the U.S. population.
You see, being a traitor to the government is not the same thing as being a traitor to the nation or the people.
"call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information" and get shut up, laid off, and financially ruined. Really, who would call the forementioned instances and expect them to actually do something? "Don't shoot the messenger" is actually something nobody remembers to not do. Shooting the messengers ( or not reacting to the message ) leads to, well, people taking their messages elsewhere. Or not delivering at all.
He was trusted; he stripped our system; he had an opportunityâ"if what he was, was a whistle-blowerâ"to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information
What is she talking about? They all already knew what the NSA was doing. They OK'd it right along with the NSA budget.
I'm no Snowden fan, but if he had come forward he would have been dealt with as a "security risk" in a very permanent way. The only whistling would have been from the government "Whew, that was another close one."
he had an opportunity - if what he was, was a whistle-blower - to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information
Plausible deniability by Congress. "We didn't know". It's like Reagan and Iran-Contra. People said he didn't know. I figured there were two possibilities. Either he knew or he didn't, and I'm not sure which was worse.
He did what was right. Leave him alone.
So what exactly are the phone numbers for the House Intelligence Committee and the Senate Intelligence Committee, so that, you know, future whistle blowers can call them up, and not end up like Snowden?
'He was trusted; he stripped our system...' Snowden could claim exactly that against the NSA. This is beyond the pot calling the kettle black.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
"Weâ(TM)ve done this enormous disservice to our country, and he's exposed us for that."
" ... pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation."
You mean the House and Senate Intelligence Committees didn't know about this already? Aren't they in charge? Don't they make the rules? Didn't they say, and aren't they still saying, that it's all legal? In what alternate universe would Snowden think telling the intelligence committees would change anything.
Feinstein thinks we're all ignorant idiots.
Especially channels amenable to spying on US citizens, we would never have heard of Snowden or the spy programs. If he had then tried to publish via other means, neither would his family.
At the risk of Godwin:
If you were, say, a German administrator learning about the death camps and being absolutely appalled, reporting it to any senior Nazi official wouldn't do much good.
They don't speak for Congress or the Senate, they are the politicians who spent so much effort covering up what the NSA was up to and preventing the Senators and Congressmen from finding out.
They are fringe now.
Feinstein tried to put herself back into the mainstream by mock outrage over the Merkel bugging and demanding (faux) change, but she promptly put out a fake bill designed to legalize it all. I bet she didn't even write the bill, the NSA lawyers probably wrote it for her.
Rogers spouts talking points the NSA gives him, I don't know his motives but he can't keep a consistent story. His latest thing is that if nobody knows they're being spied on then it's not a privacy violation. Yet if a foreign power spied on his discussions with the NSA he'd freak out.
They really won't get to decide what happens to Snowden, they're just repeating the message they've been told to say.
This shows how messed these people are. Of course he was a traitor to the government. But he and no one else owes loyalty to the government. The fact that these people believe that they, personally, are owed loyalty says far more about them than it does about Snowden. If he's a traitor then the question is if he was a traitor to the country and it's citizens.
I'm inclined to go with "no".
SJW n. One who posts facts.
if what he was, was a whistle-blower—to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,
...then he would have been driven to the nearest desert in a nice black SUV, given a shovel and told to dig his own grave and disposed of nicely and quietly.
Worse, you're proud of it.
How is this fucking authoritarian fascist even sort-of, possibly, slightly representative of the views of the majority of Californians?
Someone who reveals secrets of spies has to have a very good plan for staying alive. First rule: Don't confide in anyone who might be on the payroll.
Someone get those call logs! I bet he called and nobody listened!
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
There is a lot more that Snowden has not released yet. He is wisely using the drip, drip, drip method of disclosure so the press and public have time to digest each successive piece of information. Before it's done, it will become clear that the House and Senate oversight committees were either derelict in their duties or complicit in illegal activities. They either knew or they didn't. Either way, eventually they will be the ones asking for clemency.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
Every time Rogers opens his mouth he says that the intelligence committee was fully briefed and that they knew what was going on. What Feinstein and Rogers are implicitly admitting is that Snowden didn't just blow the whistle on the NSA. He blew it on the intelligence committee too for not doing their job of oversight.
Its just silly to think he should have reported to them that they were corrupt and/or incompetent.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Feinstein knows full well that this country doesn't have a functioning justice system. If we did, she'd be behind bars herself.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
The disservice was done by the secret courts, the spooks and the "state within". They got caught, and in the long run, that can only be a huge service to the country. Who knows, they might even eventually come up with foreign policy that doesn't piss a lot of people off, thus making the whole apparatus for mitigating it unnecessary.
Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), and her House counterpart, Mike Rogers (R-MI) must go. At least out of office. Preferably to jail. These are the real terrorists.
Just wow. No shame whatsoever?!?!? Caught red handed and without the pressure of the press and the public of the world seeing it, there is now doubt whatsoever that it would just get buried under a enormous pile of "don't let this get out, keep it secret and carry on".
What the US has been doing is outright wrong, it's hypocritical and it's got to stop. If any other country was doing so much against so many countries the US would be outraged. Stop the hypocrisy. Stop the world police.
Okay, Ms. Feinstein, what about the PREVIOUS whistleblowers? The ones you studiously ignored? They followed your inane demands, and got nothing but CRIMINAL PROSECUTION out of it. Therefore, we have clear proof you are lying through your teeth.
Snowden with gonerment and country with citizen....
We have a big thank you to Snowden for making us aware of what is actually going on behind the scenes. As a result, I've taken extra security precautions. I don't really know whether or not they will do any good but suffice it to say that I'm taking it more seriously. And, by the way, the old argument, "If you have nothing to hide, you need not worry" is bullshit. Look at the innocent people that get wrapped up in the Criminal Injustice System.
Why exactly do they get to have a say in this? Why are we even listening to them?
Feinstein and Rogers are the two key figures responsible for most of these violations in the first place. They are the ones who tacitly sanctioned wholesale violation of the constitutional right against unreasonable searches. Yet their opinion on Snowden's guilt is somehow all over the news. It's amazing that the press is quoting Rogers' preaches on how Snowden has broken the law and needs to be persecuted, when both of these bozos voted to grant retroactive immunity for warrantless wiretaps they've sanctioned under earlier administration. As far as I am concerned, asking for their opinion is like asking a robber on what to do with a good Samaritan who stopped the robbery.
He was the system administrator.
He should have just done sudo su president.obama
and then emailed the newspapers all this stuff. Clean out all the logs of your commands, and keep working like nothing happened.
No clemency for Feinstein and Rogers.
If the SIC didn't know already, now that they DO know, what are they doing about it?
Finding those who broke the law and punishing them?
Or demanding extraordinary measures to get the one who told of the crimes killed?
THAT is why he didn't go through channels.
Enough said.
Snowden is kind of naive, along with the rest of the press wetting their pants over the NSA's antics. You really don't think the Russians, Germans and French don't spy on us? This isn't "Little Brother".
Are you upset because he's also blowing the whistle on you?
The cart has run away with the horse. It doesn't matter what they do now, he's a popular hero whose reputation is growing as fast as popular discontent/outrage is growing against the tactics of the NSA and the failures of the administration to stop it or even come clean about who knows what and when.
This is a huge problem for the government - once the popular hero becomes truly a hero, their every effort to try him or bring him to justice deepens the hole they're in, and god help the US government if Snowden goes to jail - he'll immediately become a demigod.
They should use this as a wake-up call and change tactics or hopefully even policy. But it doesn't seem like that's going to happen.
Run, Snowden, run.
If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
They're banged up for war crimes.
Then hung.
On national TV.
You know, like the last moronic megalomaniacal leader of a country to be found guilty of war crimes,
In the meantime Feinstein is busy pushing a new bill through Congress. It will not only legitmize NSA spying on everyone but also impose even harsher penalties for anyone who dares speak out. Despite of majority of citizens now being clearly against it (despite of all bullshit and propaganda thrown at them by corporate media). I know it makes many Americans angry but I don't see much difference between civil liberties in US and China right now, the only one being that US regime is far superior in concealing itself behind "freedom and democracy" mirage.
The issue is pretty complicated as it is not yet clear if the german government would want to go "all the way" in a major disagreement with the US government. As the US has posed itself this would be political and economic pressure of the highest order.
I doubt our goverment (the german) will go for it but let us assume for some reason that they do. It'd be the first time the US has to use that tactic against a major aconomic and political power in the world, not just some, no offense intended, "second grade country full of brown people". It surely would be a very nasty situation for both sides and you can bet that Germany would suddenly get backup from all kinds of parties. Not just the EU, as heavy as that would be, but probably also from Russia and others.
When pondering this, I am not sure if the right question is "Would germany be willing to go all the way?" but "Can the US even afford to go all the way?"
Assuming they create a major fallout with germany over this, it would also mean they have a major fallout with europe and everyone else who just waited to chip away influence of the US all over the world. They'd suddenly find themselves to be isolated just has they have been before WWI. Do the US want that? Can they afford that? I do not know, but I think the US can consider themselves to be extremely lucky Merkel got reelected who'll play the "No conflict, no matter the price" card. If the last ten years had went a bit differently in regard to our political landscape, someone here might be willing to actually risk this. This could go very, very ugly for the geopolitical stance of the US.
Dianne Feinstein will never amount to anything more in life than a filthy, stinking cunt, so why should I give a fuck what it thinks?
It's not mutually exclusive.
"..as a righteous whistleblower rather than a traitor to the U.S. government."
'The government' is not the same thing as 'the country'.
Snowden is..
...a righteous whistleblower.
...a traitor to the U.S. government.
...not a traitor to the US and its people.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
If this continues. If you do not replace every member of congress up for re-election with people who will reclaim the power the legislature gave away to the executive branch, you'll have no right to complain.
Stop complaining about people. Do something. Replace them.
Majority of Americans know that Snowden isn't a traitor. This means if Snowden is a traitor in government's eyes, then the majority of Americans are also traitors in government's eyes. If majority of American are considered traitors,
As long as American Nazis are in charge.
Please make a note of it.
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Snowden is a freaking hero just Like Manning. Snowden knew the shitstorm he was going to step into when he did what he did.. And contrary to the liars in the government what he released did not risk anyone or "aid the enemy" unless the American public is by their definition the enemy..
The fact that they all are trying to play it down and it's working because americans in general are stupid as a box of rocks and are not screaming at the top of their lungs in the streets about this is proof.
I am pretty disgusted with my fellow citizens and how they happily give up their rights for the sake of fake security...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Oh, that's rich! You can't make this stuff up, folks.
Snowden: "Hello, Senator? The NSA is tapping the phones of US citizens"
NSA tech:"No we're not - he's lying! (oops!)"
How much dirt Snowden has on Frankenstein and Mr. Rogers?
Especially channels amenable to spying on US citizens, we would never have heard of Snowden or the spy programs. If he had then tried to publish via other means, neither would his family. At the risk of Godwin: If you were, say, a German administrator learning about the death camps and being absolutely appalled, reporting it to any senior Nazi official wouldn't do much good.
And it didn't for those who naively did tried to do this. Case in point, John Rabe, a Siemens employee in China saved the lives of tens of thousands of Chinese civilians in during the rape of Nanking. He was rewarded with a gag order upon his return to Germany for embarrassing an ally. Post war he was brutally interrogated by the NKVD and then by the British and died in abject poverty sustained by money and food donated by the people of Nanking. Rabe he was one of the lucky ones. Many altruistic individuals who saved lives during WWII ended up being punished by their own countries for what they did.
he had an opportunity—if what he was, was a whistle-blower—to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information,' Feinstein told CBS' Face The Nation.
We all know what happens to whistle-blowers that blow within....they are quieted, discredited, fired and smeared before they have a chance to tell any that would actually do anything about it. Had he done that business would be continuing as normal and of course that's what they prefer.
He's not asking for clemency. The media fabricated the entire "story"
Feinstein just gives me the creeps. She'd just LOVE to put us all in little boxes, with a camera and microphone running 24/7.
I can't think of a case in recent history where the actions of a single individual have had such far-reaching, global consequences. At the very least awarding Snowden the peace prize would be a political black-eye for the Obama administration and would help to cast these lickspittles and apologists and other assorted voices of Sauron as being ethically retarded. It would also go towards repairing the prize's failing reputation, especially in light of the 2009 award.
I'm going to come out right now and say it: Snowden is a fucking hero. However pure or impure his intentions were, the fact remains that a lot of very powerful people are now having to go into damage control and make excuses and otherwise cover their asses. It remains to be seen whether this will have long-lasting political ramifications. Although, given that the American political system is fundamentally corrupt - the political parties are basically two sides of the same filthy coin - I have my doubts.
There was no disservice done to me from what Snowden released, if the governments honestly didn't know they were being bugged they are too stupid to last.
In fact, no matter what you think of Snowden it's pretty clear that our "security" services are incompetent, so he did us the favour of clearly exposing that.
In addition, the rhetoric coming from the likes of Feinstein and her ilk (Bloomberg, Schumer, etc) is what really concerns me.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Oh please don't put Snowden and that steaming asshat in the same bucket. Snowden did something beneficial to all Americans. Manning did not. Manning did what he did to make a name for himself. He used a shotgun approach, probably got a lot of people killed, ruined our ability to effectively operate in a foreign war, and gave aid and comfort to our enemies. No. Manning deserves to be drawn and quartered. Now Snowden probably could have been a little more diplomatic about what he did, but I do believe that he had the country's best interests at heart.
You're correct to feel that way, she *is* the enemy.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Revealing the NSA/CIA spies on everyone was no more interesting than knowing the MSS, FSB, Mossad, or BND does the exact same thing. The fact that the NSA was monitoring the same data as Chinese Unit 61398 regularly does was a surprise to no one. If you're anyone who uses modern digital communication then assume you've on a party line with numerous countries listening in. Why narcissistic Snowden thinks he should get clemency, for revealing something any intelligent person knows happens anyways, is baffling.
It all depends on your breadth and length of view.
... Proper disclosure: I'm not an American.
Over the past months and the near future, Snowden is definitely causing USA damage.
In the long run though, he just might help to make the world a better place... and at a huge personal sacrifice no less. In my book that's the definition of a hero!
Snowden is a hero and needs no clemency. It is one thing for a government to spy upon people but it is quite another to pretend not to spy on the public. If the government had simply announced a need to study the public electronically and with other means as well many of us would care less. But a government based upon lies makes us all wonder if the government is not an enemy.
As far as turning information into other government agencies that would be useless. The Warren Commission's laughable look at the JFK assassination ruins the notion of trusted governmental inquiries.
This was this weird story in 2002 or so about a German businessman who was of Arabic extraction who claimed to have been kidnapped by the US military. Once it was realized that he merely shared a surname with someone he was released after a few weeks. I believe they tried to get him to sign something that he wouldn't sue and was dropped off somewhere in Europe. At the time he was accused of being having cracked up.
If they've kidnapped people from Germany before, I'd imagine they'd do it again.
Ahh another uneducated moron hating on manning's release. What he released was diplomatic cables and video of outright murder. Only a fucking idiot would think it "killed people". Dont let facts change your mind, go on with your stupidity.....
Right wing authoritarians believe it, because the authorities say so. This free e-book explains it. http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Pick up the phone, say I have some information? And be disappeared off the face of the planet.
Hmm let's see. There's this one thing called public opinion and voting. So, if they don't want a big, fat, "you're fired" come election time, they better start supporting Snowden. You're either against the big, evil, spying government or you are it.
You obviously are extremely clueless about how this world works. It works by hook, crook and bribe. If that's not enough they have a Shah to install.
"he had an opportunity—if what he was, was a whistle-blower—to pick up the phone and call the House Intelligence Committee, the Senate Intelligence Committee, and say I have some information"
Seriously? With all the stuff that has gone on here, do you actually expect that any legitimate whistle-blower would do what she's suggesting? To bravely step forward and TRUST politicians to recognize the whistle-blower and be courageous enough to defend them from prosecution for telling the truth?
I've got news for you. There's a big problem of trust here, and it isn't with ordinary employees of the government, it's with the people at the top. When the people at the top clearly and emphatically say that they're sorry it went so far and took so long to talk about these issues in public, then I'll consider that route plausible. The mass surveillance was whispered in rumors and in consistently obstructed in court cases that were trying to get to the bottom of it for *years*. At any time these idiots on the House Intelligence Committee and Senate Intelligence Committee, whose *job* it was to keep the public informed and represent the public's interests, could have stepped forward and said "We need a public conversation about how far we should allow mass surveillance to go", but nobody had the guts to do so. Nothing. Rubber stamps all the way. Any of you @!#$^!*$!ing elected representatives of the people who knew about this could have spoken up. You had power. Why would a lowly government employee feel inclined to trust them with the information given that they knew the politicians knew about some of this stuff for years, but those very powerful people were apparently too afraid to speak up or they approved of the whole thing?
!@$^* you and your after-the-fact excuses. I'd suggest some new whistle-blowers do exactly what she's saying, except that I wouldn't trust these politicians to follow through with it. The politicians had about 10 years to do the right thing: ASK THE PUBLIC about it. They didn't. You reap what you sow: distrust in the ranks and in the citizenry. You should care more about that than prosecuting people for telling the truth that you should have.
If calling the House Unintelligence Committee would have done jack. Then those pinpricks would be doing something now.
Now, Fienstein should be removed in the next election. Hell, I think there is more of a case to be made for treason and hanging on the part of Feinstein.
America is NOT supposed to be China.
We have laws that declared doing these actions are illegal.
A lot of our elections are rigged. This is why so many results do NOT coincide with polls.
Yes, I think that voters looking for a reason to continue to be apathetic will readily believe it. They might even assume that the government will go ahead and fix itself "even though Snowden brought this up the 'wrong' way." Feinstein and Rogers aren't making these statements because they fail to realize their hypocrisy. They're saying this shit because they're very cunning politicians who know how to play the press and defend their benefactors in the intelligence community. I think this WILL mollify a disturbing number of people. These congress people didn't bumble their way to the near top.
It's hard for me to blame the voters too. Most people don't have the time or mental energy to support themselves and their families AND maintain government against shit like this. I'd be happy if most voters stopped being paranoid about foreign threats. People are aware of the dangers of big government, their concerns are just eclipsed by fears of islamic cultists with pipe bombs. Cure that and I think it will be possible to trim back the NSA and military industrial complex. I think it will clear up before too long though: the paranoia seems to be driven by the 24 hour cable news culture, it's very effective at making people worried all the time. And I see the cable news watching population getting older and not being replaced by younger generations. It will be a lot harder to construct the same threats to justify the NSA to the public online, at least as it is now. With cable news, you get the soundbite, no cross-talk, and before you can question it, it's moved onto something else. You walk away with the idea that Snowden is a traitor and OH NO! TERRORISTS!!!
Cable news needs to hurry up and collapse, or we need real leaders to cure us of our paranoia. I'm prepared for a long wait.
Interesting that the Legislature is now also trying to make Judiciary decisions... if they had focused on their task of overseeing, investigating and creating rules for the Executive, we probably wouldn't have been here in the first place..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_powers
Ok... Then there will be none for either of them either.
When we convict them of Treason and Hang Them...
As Traitors to America!
We have two parties, both establishment-supporting. They've taken away all effectiveness in our systems intended to petition for redress, and then they demonize anyone who doesn't stick to just these channels.
Any lawmaker who believes our present official-channel redress methods genuinely offer legitimate chances of redress should be voted out of office. Preferrably by their own party in primaries, otherwise you just get someone equally dirty from the other side. Though in California, having been a California voter, I can honestly say the California version of both parties are as filthy as they come these days.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
No clemency for Feinstein, Rogers, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Clapper, Alexander, or any other the hundred or more other people who swore oaths to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. They are the rankest, vilest of traitors and have done more damage to our country than anyone else in history. They deserve the death penalty.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
It wouldn't exactly be smart for a whistle blower to go the people he intends to blow the whistle on first. Not unless he wan't to go for a swim in a pair of concrete boots or something like that.
Err, if you can read, imbecile, you can see I've listed other countries besides China, including other democracies. Just face it. Snowden is a BORING loser who revealed nothing new or important.
My hope is that people in the State of California will read messages like this and firmly remove Feinstein from office permanently. She's a traitor to the US, not Snowden.
> Snowden is a freaking hero just like Manning.
Agree. Too early to start printing "Snowden/Manning 2016" bumper stickers?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
So they're butthurt that Snowden did an end-run around them and the rest of crony-crammed Congress - because he knew they couldn't be trusted to be forthright - and took what he'd learned straight to the press and the public, and now determined to see him get a lethal injection in retaliation for the snub? Do they need to be reminded again that they work for us and our interests?
Think twice before you help re-elect either one of them.
If he'd picked up the phone, would it have been the last thing he'd have done as a free man before he disappeared into the black rendition gulag?
Lamest.excuse.ever.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
you are ignorant, those other "democracies" don't have a Bill of RIghts such as the USA has
Always interesting to hear politicians make such forceful unqualified statements when they know more than half the country (Significant numbers of D's and R's) think this guy is a hero.
With any luck Feinstein and Mr "You can't have your privacy violated if you don't know your privacy is violated" will find themselves looking for work when their term is up for renewal.
Perhaps adding more fuel to the fire...but Senator Feinstein was also the one who shortly after Sandy Hook was attempting to disarm the populace as well. So her perfect world is an unarmed populace with 24/7 government surveillance. Did she sleep through US Heritage classes in college?
Yeah right. Like anyone trusts the Congress to set things right.
Feinstein and Rogers undoubtedly completely understand and heartily agree with what the NSA is doing in the first place. They should be tried for treason (along with the entire NSA leadership) and be executed once their guilt is established.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Feinstein is my enemy, and the enemy of all who would not be subservient to the state.
No clemency for Feinstein!
Hey guys, you were supposed to make it so that NSA employees would end up in jail for doing the things that Snowden revealed them to have done. You failed. Why would anyone trust you?
The very fact that you haven't arrested Alexander on at least contempt of Congress charges, suggests you have either been totally derelict in your oversight, or else you already knew about how the NSA was working against the interests of the country.
Voters, I urge you to stop giving clemency to Feinstein and Rogers, and people like them. They are not acting in good faith.
Modern fascism at its finest point!
these same people would be hoisting him up as a hero. However, it was their man that was caught out and their administration that was caught out so now he's a villian.
The victors rewrite history in their favour.
some karma... and kinda lukewarm about it.
RE: hold the most embarrassing information in a safe place with instructions to release it if he is killed. That's what a smart guy would do. And the US agencies know he is a smart guy.
Thus giving Iran, China, Russia and really most of the rest of the non-US world a great incentive to kill Snowden?
Yeah, smart, real smart.
Rumor has it that Snowden has some sort of dead man's switch that triggers the immediate release of all the files, unredacted, if he is harmed or imprisoned.
That would make him even more of a target, by people that would like everything released immediately and unredacted. Such as the Russians.
You're assuming he's not traded the unredacted copies to the Russians for security. Although if that were the case, I'd expect he'd live there permanently. Perhaps in this scenario, the Russians have already decided that, but to limit the damage in Capitalist America, aren't saying so.
She's been a stupid cunt since her SF city jobs. She's worthless: a dragon lady with no fucking heart.
captcha: fruits
...I actually agree with that she-bitch Feinstein that he shouldn't get clemency. However, that's where it ends for me. Not giving clemency is different than hunting down.
To me, leave the guy alone. Let him live out his life in whatever country he wants that isn't America, free from the threat of assassination or jail. The only caveat is he's lost his U.S. privileges. It's kinda like Wallace in Pulp Fiction: "You lost your L.A. privileges".
Here's my thing: he DID break the law. Now, me, I say he did it for the right reasons and I'm glad he did... but he still did leak classified information and that can't go unpunished. But, to me, the punishment of never being able to set foot in his home country again is plenty. I don't need him dead and I don't want him in jail. There's plenty of other nice countries out there Mr. Snowden- pick one and make it your home and enjoy the rest of your days. But you don't get to come back here either.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
From the things I've read, Singapore has better social services.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Maybe, maybe not. But can't we at least agree that none of this, not even one measly percent, is about security, least of all for ordinary citizens? It's about hegemonial goals. It's about having an edge over the competition (both the guys you call 'friends' as well as the guys you call names), both in terms of politics, policies and economy. It has nothing to do with crazed terrorists or bomb-carrying Iraqis. Can we please agree on this? That'd enrich the whole debate with at least a smidgeon of honesty.
If a train station is a place where a train stops, what's a workstation?
Thus giving Iran, China, Russia and really most of the rest of the non-US world a great incentive to kill Snowden?
If they are really interested in embarrassing the US no matter the cost, why the hassle with killing Snowden?
Russia and China could simply "accidentally" leak the information themselves to the press.
What, you though that Snowden managed to gather any information that wasn't already known since long time to the FSB and MSS ?
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
by people that would like everything released immediately and unredacted. Such as the Russians.
If the Russians were that much eager to publicly display US wrong doings, they could simply "accidentally leak" it from they own source.
I seriously doubt that Snowden managed to gather info about something that the FSB hasn't known for a long time already.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
You're assuming he's not traded the unredacted copies to the Russians for security.
And would the FSB learn from them that they didn't know already? ...) has been at this "spying" game for a much longer time than even the NSA themselves.
You're forgetting that the FSB (formely known as KGB, formely known as TcheKa
I really think that Snowden tells the truth when he declares that both Russia and China haven't accessed the information he has gathered.
- It's highly unlikely that there anything in there that the FSB and MSS haven't already learned long before.
- It would be diplomatically problematic for them to do it. Better continue gathering their information through their own ways (completely secret to the USA and the general public - well at least for some. I think there are quite enough people aware of China back-dooring as much equipment they ship as possible) than risking tapping into this publicly controversed source.
All in all, the content isn't worth the hassle. Let Snowden in peace, and take the opportunity of letting him publicly paint the USA as the bad guy without even *needing* them to publicly point fingers (and thus needing to admit their own treasure trove of spied informations)
Although if that were the case, I'd expect he'd live there permanently.
Probably not, they'll keep a few year though. By then, the public and the political scene would have completely forgotten him and moved to the next sex scandal, or next over-blown and over-reacted holywood terrorist plot, etc.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Mod parent up.
WOLF-PAC (despite the ridiculous name) is a great organization, and possibly the best chance we have at fixing our government.
I highly recommend everyone at least reads up about them.
Getting involved with WOLF-PAC is easy, free, and lets you get involved with your representatives at a local level. At the very least, it's a great way to get personally involved in politics. It's fine to bullshit about politics online. It's good to go out and vote. But it's great to actually get involved.
Support WOLF-PAC and help reclaim our government. Please.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
My simple question for Feinstein would be thus:
"What Snowden has released has been literally going on for years. How has there been no report, release, or action by the House Intelligence Committee, or the Senate Intelligence Committee thus far? Was Snowden the only one with sole access to this information? Clearly your current method is non-functional. Who is doing the real disservice to their country?"
Has to keep supporting corruption to distract her constituents from how corrupt she is.
Democrats or Republicans - fake "choices" for stupid people.
Feinstein is a bigger idiot for attempting to deny clemency which she can't offer in the first place. There are very defined procedures including being convicted of a crime, which currently Snowden has not been.
Authority: U.S. Const., Art. II, Sec. 2; authority of the President as Chief Executive; and 28 U.S.C. 509, 510.
1.1 Submission of petition; form to be used; contents of petition.
A person seeking executive clemency by pardon, reprieve, commutation of sentence, or remission of fine shall execute a formal petition. The petition shall be addressed to the President of the United States and shall be submitted to the Pardon Attorney, Department of Justice, Washington, D.C. 20530, except for petitions relating to military offenses. Petitions and other required forms may be obtained from the Pardon Attorney. Petition forms for commutation of sentence also may be obtained from the wardens of federal penal institutions. A petitioner applying for executive clemency with respect to military offenses should submit his or her petition directly to the Secretary of the military department that had original jurisdiction over the court-martial trial and conviction of the petitioner. In such a case, a form furnished by the Pardon Attorney may be used but should be modified to meet the needs of the particular case. Each petition for executive clemency should include the information required in the form prescribed by the Attorney General.
1.2 Eligibility for filing petition for pardon.
No petition for pardon should be filed until the expiration of a waiting period of at least five years after the date of the release of the petitioner from confinement or, in case no prison sentence was imposed, until the expiration of a period of at least five years after the date of the conviction of the petitioner. Generally, no petition should be submitted by a person who is on probation, parole, or supervised release.
A terrorist is a freedom fighter who isn't on your side.
Casteism
Which doesn't say much for his life expectancy, But as things stand, the US "Justice" system isn't going to be getting their hands on him.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Unjustifiable down mods days later the best you've got? Yes. Typical JEW tactic.
Russia and China do not have the Snowden information.
If you mean "Russia and China ignore the information that Snowden knows", I really doubt it.
FSB and MSS (and numerous other organisations) have been at this spying game for much long. Chance are that they have gathered similar knowledge through their own channels for a long time.
Probably nothing that Snowden and co will reveal will be any surprise for them.
That's why I say "they could accidentally leak them".
If they only exclusively wanted to throw mud at the USA (as the parent poster proposed), they could probably have more than enough to throw from all they have collected over the year (they've been at this since even before Snowden was even born).
He says he has every reason to believe that Snowden put the NSA files out of the reach of China or Russia. It's not like he had them in his backpack or anything, and certainly not on his computer or cell phone. According to Gellman, the only people who got any access to the documents were the small handful of reporters who Snowden chose very carefully.
I'm not arguing that Snowden didn't follow perfect data security procedure (It's after all his specialty, he was pretty much aware of proper procedure, simply as part of his job. Unlike other whistleblowers full of big idea but no good plan to remain safe).
I'm arguing that these files were never a surprise to China and Russia.
They haven't even tried to get ahold of them probably because they're not going to learn much new stuff that they didn't know already through their own channels.
Also, trying to get access to Snowden files would very probably turn out diplomatically problematic (depending on how they try doing it, Snowden or others might be able to expose them).
Better avoid the public outcry, avoid touching Snowden's stuff:
it's not worth the hassle, and they probably know already the information which is inside.
I recommend the Barton Gellman stories about the Snowden affair in the Washington Post. {...} You can say a lot of things about Snowden, but he appears not to be a dummy and seems to know a bit about computer security and how to protect data from unauthorized intrusion.
I read quite a lot about this from various sources. Indeed Snowden seem to know his stuff and follow proper procedures (And that's no surprise. Security WAS his job until he decided to blow the whistle, so it should be expected from him to know his stuff). Same as the other guy involved (Bruce Schneier has also written about the subjet of how to remain secure).
But on the other hand think about it:
- snowden was just one single guy. working as a consultant as a sysadmin. gathering document over a few months. working alone. Although he is very bright, he has limited resource.
And he managed still to pull this stunt.
- Russia and China have highly trained personnel, probably as bright as Snowden. But they have way much more resource than him and have been a this game much longer (as far back as the FSB was still called KGB, and even before that when it was the Tcheka).
Ask your self: what did *THEY* gather as information over these decades?
Could there anything be then in Snowden's files that Russia and China haven't already known for ages ?
To make a carricature: I might sai that movies' double and triple agents are an understatement, in reality all these organisations are probably full of people working for five countries at the same time out of witch three countries are probably secretly aware of each other.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
How come government officials are reacting the exact opposite fashion of what most Americans are reacting? Majority agree that Snowden did us a great favor, as citizens, but still the people who take our money and supposedly speak for us are labelling him a villain? It's not just the typically backwards GOP, this time; it's the Democrats, too. How are things this bad? If we voted for you, why do you hate us?