> You said that they did it to be anticompetitive, but you have yet to mention what Apple has to gain by doing it.
No, what I said was they did and it *is* anticompetitive. The reason is simple: To get folks to put money in Apple's pocket, not anyone elses.
And quite frankly, I do not feel morally oblicated to swell AAPL's bottom line.
Why would I pay $1600 now to upgrade to a G4 400, when I can pop one in my machine (or rather could) for half the price in 6 months?
>The fact that there is a G4 with a Yose motherboard should make it obvious that a ROM update already exists.
No, what it makes obvious is that fact that the machines Apple *wants* to have G4s in them do. These would be ones you buy from them, as opposed to getting the G4 from another vendor.
>As for the OS 9 ROM requirement, it is not uncommon for Apple to ensure that firmware updates are in place when making an upgrade.
ROTFLMAO...
Please point to Flashable bios firmware havin' Pro Macs before 1999. What's this? They don't exist? Do tell.
>This frees them from testing with every single ROM version ever made. G4 issues aside, there's no reason not to have the latest ROMs.
Riiiight...are you aware that Apple presently make 4 machines, not 24? This assertion is no longer relevant.
> Judging by your user info, I would venture a guess that you're really pissed off at the problem. I will be too - if it isn't fixed. But for now, I'd suggest you calm down.
And I'd like to suggest that you wake up and smell the coffee? BTW...Do *you* have a Yose G3, or some old assed Mac? Have you recently contributed to the large amount of cash that Apple has sitting in the bank, or are you just blowin' smoke?
>Btw, Apple _can't_ say that any of their machines are upgradable due to a fiasco involving Performa upgrades a while ago that led to a class action suit.
For the Love of God, man...
Apple can say any machine is upgradable providing that it is. *That* particular case had to do with them not providing an upgrade they said they would, or that upgrade not working.
I was THERE...I bought one of those machines, and when I found out that the upgrade wouldn't work in a machine they said it would, without bloking the slots and reducing the functionality, they took it back and gave me a 6100.
So that all the "What's the Big Deal?/3rd Parties" mac folk in denial will be up to speed and stop looking like complete boobs to those in the know, let me tell you what this 3rd Party Upgrade maker did, and why they are now saying "Ooops! heheh...sorry"
They basically figured out how to roll the firmware revision back, hence allowing the G4 ZIF cards to function, pretty much proving there is a processor check.
Now, the problem w/ this is, well, this: OS9 has quite suddenly *required* that the Firmware update be in place or it won't install.
There is no way around this.
Since OS9 will be out in about a month and new releases of MacOS are always hot sellers, there is no way they can back up their claim the said ZIF upgrade will work, because it effectivly means freezing the machine at 8.6
This has, BTW, been verified by many people who are supposed to be keeping their mouth shut about such things (NDA) but are frankly too pissed to care.
So, would you people please do the right thing and fall in line now? If you keep up this "Who's to say it was intentional" nonsense there will be nothing us sane Mac using persons can do to save you.
Call xlr8 and ask them...they will tell you that they were mistaken.
Apple did it. Period. They did it intentionally. Period. It was underhanded, anticompetitive and just plain wrong.
Deal with it.
The fact the the G4 400 uses the Yose Mobo minus ADB should make it *real obvious*
The fact the Yose MB supports the G4, on the board via a re-jumpering should make it fairly obvious as well.
The fact that the G4 cpus were reeady before Apple was ready to sell them back in May should bring it all to gether for ya'
But the fact that OS9 has now been fiddled with to disallow installation on unflashed Yose G3s (this is a *recent* development, and one that has cause the accell companies great concern) should be the icing on the cake for you.
It's REAL OBVIOUS at this point. Any company that put R&D into jiggering around this latest bump in the road knows that Apple can easily render their method, and products moot.
So they have all pulled back and revised their original "we can get around it" PRs because in reality, they cannot.
Some of you (other) Mac Users should be ashamed of yourselves for moderating the 'pro Apple' posts on this story up.
This is wrong, wrong, WRONG.
As much as folks are predjudiced against mac hardware, and Apple in general, they are even *more* predjudiced against doe-eyed Mac users and Apologists for these EXACT REASONS.
Face it. Apple pulled a fast on, and it STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN.
Y'all might feel it is your personal duty to be unpaid employees for a Multi-Billion Dollar Multi-National Corporation, but it does NOT change the fact that this is singlehandedly the WORSE thing Apple has *ever* done.
I hope that some reasonable folks moderate this trash DOWN, because it really casts a shameful dull yellow glow on reasonable and thinking mac persons everywhere.
FIRST OFF, Comparing the various x86 processor jumps is PURE BS. The G4 is not the next step up, regardless of Apple marketing fu-fu...it's more akin to the +MMX step, just done a bit better.
Now, for some reality:
1) The present G4 works perfectly in the G3. Well, it *did* at one point.
2) These things (the cpus) were ready back in May. Apple was not. Apple asked Moto to hold off shipping the CPU's till Apple was ready, so that 3rd parties wouldn't get the jump on Apple. Moto Laughed.
3) many people (*many*) Knew the chips were ready and were complaining, so Apple A)changed the firmware in the Rev2 G3's and B) issued a firmware update trojan.
4) Anyone who didn't get sucked in to the initial round was sucked in when Apple issued and upgrade to OSX Server which "required" the firmware "patch".
5) As the final blow, OS9 will *not* install on a G3 without this firmware "upgrade". Fortunatly, this has gotten out, so that Rev1 G3 owners can be made aware of this latest trick.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what the majority of you all believe, Apple makes good stuff. I use it, its alright. Runs Linux great.
But there is no way in hell *anyone* can justify or evangelize this predatory bullshit behavior on their part...and if you look around on Mac Sites, you'll find most aren't.
This is a Steve Jobs production, plain and simple, and he going to get his hand spanked quite hard for it. There are legions of folks pulling their G4 orders on General Principle until the block is reversed.
I spend a lot of my web time here on/. and swallow a lot of Anti-mac shit without comment. But I wanted to just pipe in and point out that
A) All of us aren't into getting ass-rammed like a jailhouse bitch by Steve Jobs and B) most *pros* that *use* macs (web/design/graphics/science) as opposed to highschoolers that *brag* about them have learned to walk the thin line between Mac The Computer and Apple the Dicks that Make it.
We like our Macs but could do without Apple...especially *this* Apple.
...because you head is so far up Steve's ass you can check for colon cancer...
OR
As I said in another post...
Fuck Apple...fuck them right in the ear.
Don't listen to this MacMoron...listen to me...
A different Mac Moron.
Points:
1) The present G4 works perfectly in the G3. Well, it *did* at one point.
2) These things (the cpus) were ready back in May. Apple was not. Apple asked Moto to hold off shipping the CPU's till Apple was ready, so that 3rd parties wouldn't get the jump on Apple. Moto Laughed.
3) many people (*many*) Knew the chips were ready and were complaining, so Apple A)changed the firmware in the Rev2 G3's and B) issued a firmware update trojan.
4) Anyone who didn't get sucked in to the initial round was sucked in when Apple issued and upgrade to OSX Server which "required" the firmware "patch".
5) As the final blow, OS9 will *not* install on a G3 without this firmware "upgrade". Fortunatly, this has gotten out, so that Rev1 G3 owners can be made aware of this latest trick.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what the majority of you all believe, Apple makes good stuff. I use it, its alright. Runs Linux great.
But there is no way in hell *anyone* can justify or evangelize this predatory bullshit behavior on their part...and if you look around on Mac Sites, you'll find most aren't.
This is a Steve Jobs production, plain and simple, and he going to get his hand spanked quite hard for it. There are legions of folks pulling their G4 orders on General Principle until the block is reversed.
I spend a lot of my web time here on/. and swallow a lot of Anti-mac shit without comment. But I wanted to just pipe in and point out that
A) All of us aren't into getting ass-rammed like a jailhouse bitch by Steve Jobs and B) most *pros* that *use* macs (web/design/graphics/science) as opposed to highschoolers that *brag* about them have learned to walk the thin line between Mac The Computer and Apple the Dicks that Make it.
We like our Macs but could do without Apple...especially *this* Apple.
1) The present G4 works perfectly in the G3. Well, it *did* at one point.
2) These things (the cpus) were ready back in May. Apple was not. Apple asked Moto to hold off shipping the CPU's till Apple was ready, so that 3rd parties wouldn't get the jump on Apple. Moto Laughed.
3) many people (*many*) Knew the chips were ready and were complaining, so Apple A)changed the firmware in the Rev2 G3's and B) issued a firmware update trojan.
4) Anyone who didn't get sucked in to the initial round was sucked in when Apple issued and upgrade to OSX Server which "required" the firmware "patch".
5) As the final blow, OS9 will *not* install on a G3 without this firmware "upgrade". Fortunatly, this has gotten out, so that Rev1 G3 owners can be made aware of this latest trick.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what the majority of you all believe, Apple makes good stuff. I use it, its alright. Runs Linux great.
But there is no way in hell *anyone* can justify or evangelize this predatory bullshit behavior on their part...and if you look around on Mac Sites, you'll find most aren't.
This is a Steve Jobs production, plain and simple, and he going to get his hand spanked quite hard for it. There are legions of folks pulling their G4 orders on General Principle until the block is reversed.
I spend a lot of my web time here on/. and swallow a lot of Anti-mac shit without comment. But I wanted to just pipe in and point out that A) All of us aren't into getting ass-rammed like a jailhouse bitch by Steve Jobs and B) most *pros* that *use* macs (web/design/graphics/science) as opposed to highschoolers that *brag* about them have learned to walk the thin line between Mac The Computer and Apple the Dicks that Make it.
We like our Macs but could do without Apple...especially *this* Apple.
Can you name 10 GPL'd pieces of enduser software that are vastly superior (help, I'll settle for superior) in Quality, Execution and Stability/Support than 'proprietary' nearest equivilants?
5. The BSD license. A matter of personal taste, of course, but I believe free software should be free.
This is *so* true. As much Free Software Open Source = Linux FuFu I hear, the *one* thing I *never* hear the Linux Yelling and Shouting Contingent bring up is the fact that you cannot truly do *anything* you want with the code.
Now, as usual, whenever I post here, some retarded 12-17 year-old child will notice my email address and go off on an Apple Sux/Evil Pigs rant...that's fine.
But as a Linux, Irix, MacOS, and BSD user (daily) I have to say this:
In *my* opinion and years and years of experience, the BSD's and the evil 'closed' OS's all have definate advantages over Linux *at this time* and for simple reasons(...altho' I will admit that Microsoft is at the bottom of the quality barrel in said group...):
They don't *have* to be altruistic.
I find it very personally disturbing that the vocal proponents of all of this seem to feel the only legit way to make money and feed your family at any of this is to write needlessly bad and incomplete software, and sell 'docs' or 'support' for them. If the job was done right, that would not be needed.
Then there is the 'well if ou don't like it, fix it BS' I hear all the time. Now, what incentive is there for anyone to do this? If I find a piece of totally fucked up shitty-assed GPL'd 'free' (ha!) software, invest 6 months into bringing it up to snuff and making it into a quality, professional product, my reward is what again? The adoration of a rag-tag bunch of raggedly kids?
So...who feeds me?
And this is again why *I* like the BSD way: YOU are *free* to decide what you give and what you keep. You, not some faceless bunch of cretins who care not if you live or die, gets to say "Here guys," or "I think someone might think that my version is worth mortgage payments...if not, let 'em use the crap that I built it from."
As much as I like Linux (and I *do* like Linux. If I didn't, I wouldn't use it at work, and it damned sure wouldn't be taking up space on my home computer...) the lack of personal ownership issues seems to produce a large amount of software that is unfinished, unstable, unpolished...just un. Time after weary, drag assed time, someone starts a thing and doesn't finish it...they really have no practical, real-world tradable reason to do so.
And whats worse, if someone DOES come up with something, from scratch, with no GPL code, that does a whiz-bang job (VMware comes to mind) they are torn to pieces for not giving it away. I actually feel bad for these groups. They solve the problems and Linx folks WALK AWAY IN DROVES, opting instead for unfinished, largely unusable free Grade-A Reject CRAP. (I said it. I'm sorry, someone needs some *honest* Linux Advocacy here.)
But yet these same people will line up and kiss Carmack's ass for a freakin' GAME port. A GAME.
Oracle is doing the 8i thing for Linux, and folks are all like 'Aww screw dat...Postgresql is free!' as if 'free Postgresql' is even in the same *class* as 8i!
I mean honestly, the best Linux has to offer in terms of what's *excellent* are the gnu toolchain and Apache...and these ain't strictly Liux...now are they? Hmmm.
We are lucky we get anything better than shit for Linux. Don't mean to hurt folks feelings, but c'mon folks. Look around. Cruise thru Freshmeat and LinuxApps on a daily basis like I do and tell me that it ain't dismal.
But you won't.
So the inferior, drag-assed Lowest-Common-Denominator cycle continues, ad nausem.
But you get the source code...that makes it all better.
Coca-Cola used to be made with sweet, yummy sugar. Very expensive compared to the competition, but well, that's why Coke was it.
The problem: how do we switch to High Fructose Corn Syrup, and get away with it?
The Solution: Two years of New Coke, Max Headroom, and Catching the wave. Well, Max was ok, but new Coke sucked decidely, and *intentionally*. When the "swirchback" took place, the difference wasn't as obvious.
You *can* actually still get real Coke, btw. Look for it around Passover. It has a Kosher mark and yellow caps/marking.
Corn Syrup isn't Kosher for Passover...so they make it with sugar. But you knew that already, didn't ya'?
In theory, the 450Mhz MoBo/cpu combo will run about the price of a PII-500 cpu/Mobo combo. PPCs cost about the same as high end PII's at retail.
My story on this, with comment from Jason Haas (I learned about this during MacWorld Expo but was sworn to secrecy) should be running sometime today, but this thing has been in the works for quite awhile.
The funny thing is, anyone could have really done this because the specs have been sitting on IBM's public ftp site for years. After Apple killed clone licensing, nobody saw any reason to make the things.
And there are Quicktime players, not written by Apple, for Linux. Quicktime is a File format that is quite open. The problem is with the *codecs*...some Apple, some not.
As a Quicktme author, I can quite easily generate QT content that can be view from Linux...I just can use any old codec.
I've worked at home for most of this year, due to a car accident.
I have to tell you, it's NOT all wine and roses. I actually have serval friends (all GA/Designers) that have done it for years...it nearly drove one crazy and broke p another's marriage almost.
The problem is 'your job is not your life' unless you live alone.
And 'getting out' becaomes the highlight of what you do.
If you work at home, you *will* work more unpaid hours than if you were in the office...and smart companies know this.
You see, since its more uncommon than common in most markets, telecommuters work harder and extra so as not to 'ruin' it...for themselves, or others.
Conversely, these 'work-at-home-like' offices (motely fool's webdev is set up like this) has a dark side too...someone *else* decides when 'playtime' is over, and I've know more than a couple of folks that have been sent packing over these kinds of...misunderstabndings.
What I think is needed is a bit more balance...maybe 2 days at the office, 3 days offsite.
Ask your Grandma what here childhood was like. Even if she couldn't drink out out of certain water fountains, or eat in certain restaurants (mine was not), I'll bet she'll tell you that overall the world was still a better place.
I find it odd that in today's world, especially teenagers, folks are so 'causal'...but the causes have nothing to do with consequence.
When I was 17, not so long ago, all I wanted to do was see Nancy and Tipper burn in hell.
But I grew up in the 70's and 80's before Sex and Drugs were an unlikely but remotely possible path to death, not synonymous to it.
It's just wierd for me, someone who likes youthful things, to see a generation that is SO SMART about so much be so oblivious to the future.
Well, you got the smoking thing right, at least...although i ain't too keen on methods that are being used to drive the point home.
Preaching aside, my point is this: Let's not rule out or toss aside the responsibility that comes with the power.
You said it yourself:
"I have no problem with that, in fact based on what I've seen in reviews and TV episodes, I'd recommend that most parents not let their children see it..."
This proves you *know* its not right.
BUT, you then say...
"but to put that choice into the hands of a bunch of old ppl is ludicrous (sp?)."
Who else would you put it in the hands of?
Don't make the mistake our parents did (Young adults of the late 60's)...there *is* a such thing as too much freedom, in the wrong hands.
Look around you. Can you walk into a record store and *easily* find something you'd play for your Grandma, or a 4 year old? Do you feel safe outside your home? Been to a typical big city? Know where to find the open-air drug markets? Ever been a kid, and seen a kid shoot another kid in the face?
Ask your Grandma what here childhood was like. Even if she couldn't drink out out of certain water fountains, or eat in certain restaurants like mine, I'll bet she'll tell you that over all the world was still a better place.
" Every person the same age has the same amount of experience, regardless of intellect.
...
If you really believe that, you've had an easy life. Congratulations; not everyone is so lucky."
Heh. I wish that was the case. Heh.
But no one will be able to convince me that second and third graders have a 'natural right as individuals' to drink, curse, have sex and be generally beligerant. It's not good for them, or us.
As as parents, and responsible adults, or in the case of some here, soon-to-be adults, we would be wise to keep an eye on this.
Rememeber folks, Bill Gates (who gets a nice turn in the movie...heheheh) didn't become as rich, powerful and dare I say, dangerous as he is overnight. It took years and years of folks downplaying the threat and taking their eye off the ball.
So if you think some snot-nosed cursing disrespectful self-centered and self-absorbed *child* in the real world (as opposed to the movies...) is *cute* or *going through a phase*, remember this when they are twenty and have no regard for anyone or anything.
If you have a kid and you think it's no big deal now (not the poster, his position was clear) be not surprised when they are 16, bigger and faster than you and knock you on your ass when you try to put your foot down.
I've seen it happen. Repeatedly. It makes me...sad.
And in every case, the parent had a 'hands off, let 'em be their own person' attitude, and truely believed they were doing the right thing...
Slapping your Mom or Dad around certainly does not seem like the right thing to an 'old' guy like me...
This nealy brought a tear to me eye, in the very real sense.
I've always had a small fear that us 'Atari Babies' might look to some of the ills of our Moms and Dads as the Final Blueprint, and ignore some of the Good that their parents tried to instill in them before they fell the hell off.
I know the yougest of the young don't have the bennies of having a Grandma that was able to instill if not some "Good Old-Fashioned God-Fearing 'Mrekin Values" but at least some "Common Sense" (as opposed to what my Grandmother reffered to as "Book Sense"), but I always feared that enough of it didn't get thru to the 25-34 year olds like myself.
"Ok, first I agree with you for the most part, parents need to take responsibility for there children, however I do not see any problem with anyone older than 12 going to see this movie."
Two questions, and neither is meant to be condescending:
1) How old are you again? 16. Ahh to be 16 again 2) Do you have children? If you parents are doing their job, I'd say no.
That fact that you agree that parents should be responsible for their children, but then state that it's not a bad idea to have a 13yr-old a jubilent catchy Broadway-style musical piece titled 'Uncle Fucka', as well as checking out Saddam and Satan in bed whilst Saddam reveals several life-like dildos makes me wonder about your judgement.
You said:
"I do not agree with your idea that a 16 year old can't have just as much experience if not more than a 20 year old, it all depends on how your raised, if as you seem to think children should be moderated and prevented from seeing certain movies and such, then obviously they will have less experience than someone who does get to watch those movies."
This is a horride example about one of the ills of they so-called 'Human Potential Movement' that started in the 60's, which is now only rearing it's ugly head with my generation and the one below.
It's also a fallacy, as well as mathematically incorrect:).
Exposure does not bring experience, time does. it is the essence of what experience is. Exposed brings information, but not necessarily the facilities to handle it.
Look at the impact of children exposed to sex and violent abuse, or, if you want something less moralistic and more on the geek track, the experiences of prodogies thrust into adult and young adult situations.
I remember a boy that went to my College Prep High School named Bala. Some of you old enough may have heard of him as he made national news in the late 80's. he breezed thru City College high, and ended up at JHU at 12. He couldn't take it. He was not socially equipted for the environment. Most 17 and 18 year-olds aren't.
Putting a brilliant 12-year old in with a bunch of college freshmen has proven time and time again to be a bad idea.
What is needed is something that feeds the intellect, in an eviron that matches the experience.
You said:
"The only reason the movie got a R rating is because it insulted the beliefies and ideas of a majority of the US for the sake of making a point that people are to uptight about everything."
As someone who has seen the movie twice, I assure you that the R rating was well deserved. It is solidly aimed at adults and for adults. It contained more than enough nudity, adult language, adult themes and strong sexual content to warrant an R rating, regardless of it's socio-political message.
After you defy authority and sneak in to see it, let me know what you think.
And try to let me know from the point of view of a 29-year old Dad with two young boys.
I promise you that you won't be able to...but I well understand where you are coming from. It was not that long ago that I was 16:)
Slashdot Mirror
> You said that they did it to be anticompetitive, but you have yet to mention what Apple has to gain by doing it.
No, what I said was they did and it *is* anticompetitive.
The reason is simple: To get folks to put money in Apple's pocket, not anyone elses.
And quite frankly, I do not feel morally oblicated to swell AAPL's bottom line.
Why would I pay $1600 now to upgrade to a G4 400, when I can pop one in my machine (or rather could) for half the price in 6 months?
>The fact that there is a G4 with a Yose motherboard should make it obvious that a ROM update already exists.
No, what it makes obvious is that fact that the machines Apple *wants* to have G4s in them do. These would be ones you buy from them, as opposed to getting the G4 from another vendor.
>As for the OS 9 ROM requirement, it is not uncommon for Apple to ensure that firmware updates are in place when making an upgrade.
ROTFLMAO...
Please point to Flashable bios firmware havin' Pro Macs before 1999. What's this? They don't exist? Do tell.
>This frees them from testing with every single ROM version ever made. G4 issues aside, there's no reason not to have the latest ROMs.
Riiiight...are you aware that Apple presently make 4 machines, not 24? This assertion is no longer relevant.
> Judging by your user info, I would venture a guess that you're really pissed off at the problem. I will be too - if it isn't fixed. But for now, I'd suggest you calm down.
And I'd like to suggest that you wake up and smell the coffee? BTW...Do *you* have a Yose G3, or some old assed Mac? Have you recently contributed to the large amount of cash that Apple has sitting in the bank, or are you just blowin' smoke?
>Btw, Apple _can't_ say that any of their machines are upgradable due to a fiasco involving Performa upgrades a while ago that led to a class action suit.
For the Love of God, man...
Apple can say any machine is upgradable providing that it is. *That* particular case had to do with them not providing an upgrade they said they would, or that upgrade not working.
I was THERE...I bought one of those machines, and when I found out that the upgrade wouldn't work in a machine they said it would, without bloking the slots and reducing the functionality, they took it back and gave me a 6100.
Those were the days...but this crap...oh hell no.
-K
So that all the "What's the Big Deal?/3rd Parties" mac folk in denial will be up to speed and stop looking like complete boobs to those in the know, let me tell you what this 3rd Party Upgrade maker did, and why they are now saying "Ooops! heheh...sorry"
They basically figured out how to roll the firmware revision back, hence allowing the G4 ZIF cards to function, pretty much proving there is a processor check.
Now, the problem w/ this is, well, this: OS9 has quite suddenly *required* that the Firmware update be in place or it won't install.
There is no way around this.
Since OS9 will be out in about a month and new releases of MacOS are always hot sellers, there is no way they can back up their claim the said ZIF upgrade will work, because it effectivly means freezing the machine at 8.6
This has, BTW, been verified by many people who are supposed to be keeping their mouth shut about such things (NDA) but are frankly too pissed to care.
So, would you people please do the right thing and fall in line now? If you keep up this "Who's to say it was intentional" nonsense there will be nothing us sane Mac using persons can do to save you.
-K
The G4 400s are Yose G3s w/ No ADB and new skin. Nothing new has been added...not even AGP
-K
Call xlr8 and ask them...they will tell you that they were mistaken.
Apple did it. Period. They did it intentionally. Period. It was underhanded, anticompetitive and just plain wrong.
Deal with it.
The fact the the G4 400 uses the Yose Mobo minus ADB should make it *real obvious*
The fact the Yose MB supports the G4, on the board via a re-jumpering should make it fairly obvious as well.
The fact that the G4 cpus were reeady before Apple was ready to sell them back in May should bring it all to gether for ya'
But the fact that OS9 has now been fiddled with to disallow installation on unflashed Yose G3s (this is a *recent* development, and one that has cause the accell companies great concern) should be the icing on the cake for you.
It's REAL OBVIOUS at this point. Any company that put R&D into jiggering around this latest bump in the road knows that Apple can easily render their method, and products moot.
So they have all pulled back and revised their original "we can get around it" PRs because in reality, they cannot.
-K
Some of you (other) Mac Users should be ashamed of yourselves for moderating the 'pro Apple' posts on this story up.
This is wrong, wrong, WRONG.
As much as folks are predjudiced against mac hardware, and Apple in general, they are even *more* predjudiced against doe-eyed Mac users and Apologists for these EXACT REASONS.
Face it. Apple pulled a fast on, and it STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN.
Y'all might feel it is your personal duty to be unpaid employees for a Multi-Billion Dollar Multi-National Corporation, but it does NOT change the fact that this is singlehandedly the WORSE thing Apple has *ever* done.
I hope that some reasonable folks moderate this trash DOWN, because it really casts a shameful dull yellow glow on reasonable and thinking mac persons everywhere.
-K
>And the people complaining are not Mac users, they are Mac haters.
Could you be any more stupid? I believe as one of thefolks that bought one of those 750,000 1999 G3's I can hardly be classified as a 'Mac Hater'.
Apple, OTOH, can kiss my *entire* ass.
-K
It is now a known fact that this was intentional.
What a maroon!
-K
in the AIM (Apple IBM Motorala) Aliance and contributes.
They can still suck my ass, either way. I'm not amused by this crap AT ALL.
-K
This is typical Zealot spew.
/. and swallow a lot of Anti-mac shit without comment. But I wanted to just pipe in and point out that
FIRST OFF, Comparing the various x86 processor jumps is PURE BS. The G4 is not the next step up, regardless of Apple marketing fu-fu...it's more akin to the +MMX step, just done a bit better.
Now, for some reality:
1) The present G4 works perfectly in the G3. Well, it *did* at one point.
2) These things (the cpus) were ready back in May. Apple was not. Apple asked Moto to hold off shipping the CPU's till Apple was ready, so that 3rd parties wouldn't get the jump on Apple. Moto Laughed.
3) many people (*many*) Knew the chips were ready and were complaining, so Apple A)changed the firmware in the Rev2 G3's and B) issued a firmware update trojan.
4) Anyone who didn't get sucked in to the initial round was sucked in when Apple issued and upgrade to OSX Server which "required" the firmware "patch".
5) As the final blow, OS9 will *not* install on a G3 without this firmware "upgrade". Fortunatly, this has gotten out, so that Rev1 G3 owners can be made aware of this latest trick.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what the majority of you all believe, Apple makes good stuff. I use it, its alright. Runs Linux great.
But there is no way in hell *anyone* can justify or evangelize this predatory bullshit behavior on their part...and if you look around on Mac Sites, you'll find most aren't.
This is a Steve Jobs production, plain and simple, and he going to get his hand spanked quite hard for it. There are legions of folks pulling their G4 orders on General Principle until the block is reversed.
I spend a lot of my web time here on
A) All of us aren't into getting ass-rammed like a jailhouse bitch by Steve Jobs and B) most *pros* that *use* macs (web/design/graphics/science) as opposed to highschoolers that *brag* about them have learned to walk the thin line between Mac The Computer and Apple the Dicks that Make it.
We like our Macs but could do without Apple...especially *this* Apple.
...because you head is so far up Steve's ass you can check for colon cancer...
/. and swallow a lot of Anti-mac shit without comment. But I wanted to just pipe in and point out that
OR
As I said in another post...
Fuck Apple...fuck them right in the ear.
Don't listen to this MacMoron...listen to me...
A different Mac Moron.
Points:
1) The present G4 works perfectly in the G3. Well, it *did* at one point.
2) These things (the cpus) were ready back in May. Apple was not. Apple asked Moto to hold off shipping the CPU's till Apple was ready, so that 3rd parties wouldn't get the jump on Apple. Moto Laughed.
3) many people (*many*) Knew the chips were ready and were complaining, so Apple A)changed the firmware in the Rev2 G3's and B) issued a firmware update trojan.
4) Anyone who didn't get sucked in to the initial round was sucked in when Apple issued and upgrade to OSX Server which "required" the firmware "patch".
5) As the final blow, OS9 will *not* install on a G3 without this firmware "upgrade". Fortunatly, this has gotten out, so that Rev1 G3 owners can be made aware of this latest trick.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what the majority of you all believe, Apple makes good stuff. I use it, its alright. Runs Linux great.
But there is no way in hell *anyone* can justify or evangelize this predatory bullshit behavior on their part...and if you look around on Mac Sites, you'll find most aren't.
This is a Steve Jobs production, plain and simple, and he going to get his hand spanked quite hard for it. There are legions of folks pulling their G4 orders on General Principle until the block is reversed.
I spend a lot of my web time here on
A) All of us aren't into getting ass-rammed like a jailhouse bitch by Steve Jobs and B) most *pros* that *use* macs (web/design/graphics/science) as opposed to highschoolers that *brag* about them have learned to walk the thin line between Mac The Computer and Apple the Dicks that Make it.
We like our Macs but could do without Apple...especially *this* Apple.
Fuck Apple...fuck them right in the ear.
/. and swallow a lot of Anti-mac shit without comment. But I wanted to just pipe in and point out that A) All of us aren't into getting ass-rammed like a jailhouse bitch by Steve Jobs and B) most *pros* that *use* macs (web/design/graphics/science) as opposed to highschoolers that *brag* about them have learned to walk the thin line between Mac The Computer and Apple the Dicks that Make it.
Don't listen to this MacMoron...listen to me...
A different Mac Moron.
Points:
1) The present G4 works perfectly in the G3. Well, it *did* at one point.
2) These things (the cpus) were ready back in May. Apple was not. Apple asked Moto to hold off shipping the CPU's till Apple was ready, so that 3rd parties wouldn't get the jump on Apple. Moto Laughed.
3) many people (*many*) Knew the chips were ready and were complaining, so Apple A)changed the firmware in the Rev2 G3's and B) issued a firmware update trojan.
4) Anyone who didn't get sucked in to the initial round was sucked in when Apple issued and upgrade to OSX Server which "required" the firmware "patch".
5) As the final blow, OS9 will *not* install on a G3 without this firmware "upgrade". Fortunatly, this has gotten out, so that Rev1 G3 owners can be made aware of this latest trick.
The fact of the matter is, regardless of what the majority of you all believe, Apple makes good stuff. I use it, its alright. Runs Linux great.
But there is no way in hell *anyone* can justify or evangelize this predatory bullshit behavior on their part...and if you look around on Mac Sites, you'll find most aren't.
This is a Steve Jobs production, plain and simple, and he going to get his hand spanked quite hard for it. There are legions of folks pulling their G4 orders on General Principle until the block is reversed.
I spend a lot of my web time here on
We like our Macs but could do without Apple...especially *this* Apple.
-K
We could *always* rely on apple overpricing...thi is...is...an OUTRAGE!!!
:)
-K
I just bought a G3! What is Apple trying to do with this price competive BS?!?! My machine just dropped in resale value LIKE A ROCK.
Of course, it runs Linux really ducky, so it ain't wothless.
Damn, DAMN DAMN!!!!!
-K
Can you name 10 GPL'd pieces of enduser software that are vastly superior (help, I'll settle for superior) in Quality, Execution and Stability/Support than 'proprietary' nearest equivilants?
Not 'One Bright Day'...today.
TIA,
-K
5. The BSD license. A matter of personal taste, of course, but I believe free software should be free.
This is *so* true. As much Free Software Open Source = Linux FuFu I hear, the *one* thing I *never* hear the Linux Yelling and Shouting Contingent bring up is the fact that you cannot truly do *anything* you want with the code.
Now, as usual, whenever I post here, some retarded 12-17 year-old child will notice my email address and go off on an Apple Sux/Evil Pigs rant...that's fine.
But as a Linux, Irix, MacOS, and BSD user (daily) I have to say this:
In *my* opinion and years and years of experience, the BSD's and the evil 'closed' OS's all have definate advantages over Linux *at this time* and for simple reasons(...altho' I will admit that Microsoft is at the bottom of the quality barrel in said group...):
They don't *have* to be altruistic.
I find it very personally disturbing that the vocal proponents of all of this seem to feel the only legit way to make money and feed your family at any of this is to write needlessly bad and incomplete software, and sell 'docs' or 'support' for them. If the job was done right, that would not be needed.
Then there is the 'well if ou don't like it, fix it BS' I hear all the time. Now, what incentive is there for anyone to do this? If I find a piece of totally fucked up shitty-assed GPL'd 'free' (ha!) software, invest 6 months into bringing it up to snuff and making it into a quality, professional product, my reward is what again? The adoration of a rag-tag bunch of raggedly kids?
So...who feeds me?
And this is again why *I* like the BSD way: YOU are *free* to decide what you give and what you keep. You, not some faceless bunch of cretins who care not if you live or die, gets to say "Here guys," or "I think someone might think that my version is worth mortgage payments...if not, let 'em use the crap that I built it from."
As much as I like Linux (and I *do* like Linux. If I didn't, I wouldn't use it at work, and it damned sure wouldn't be taking up space on my home computer...) the lack of personal ownership issues seems to produce a large amount of software that is unfinished, unstable, unpolished...just un. Time after weary, drag assed time, someone starts a thing and doesn't finish it...they really have no practical, real-world tradable reason to do so.
And whats worse, if someone DOES come up with something, from scratch, with no GPL code, that does a whiz-bang job (VMware comes to mind) they are torn to pieces for not giving it away. I actually feel bad for these groups. They solve the problems and Linx folks WALK AWAY IN DROVES, opting instead for unfinished, largely unusable free Grade-A Reject CRAP. (I said it. I'm sorry, someone needs some *honest* Linux Advocacy here.)
But yet these same people will line up and kiss Carmack's ass for a freakin' GAME port. A GAME.
Oracle is doing the 8i thing for Linux, and folks are all like 'Aww screw dat...Postgresql is free!' as if 'free Postgresql' is even in the same *class* as 8i!
I mean honestly, the best Linux has to offer in terms of what's *excellent* are the gnu toolchain and Apache...and these ain't strictly Liux...now are they? Hmmm.
We are lucky we get anything better than shit for Linux. Don't mean to hurt folks feelings, but c'mon folks. Look around. Cruise thru Freshmeat and LinuxApps on a daily basis like I do and tell me that it ain't dismal.
But you won't.
So the inferior, drag-assed Lowest-Common-Denominator cycle continues, ad nausem.
But you get the source code...that makes it all better.
Heh.
The DC can output to vga via optional hardware, if the game supports it.... -K
New Coke was intoduced to cut cost. The deal:
Coca-Cola used to be made with sweet, yummy sugar. Very expensive compared to the competition, but well, that's why Coke was it.
The problem: how do we switch to High Fructose Corn Syrup, and get away with it?
The Solution: Two years of New Coke, Max Headroom, and Catching the wave. Well, Max was ok, but new Coke sucked decidely, and *intentionally*. When the "swirchback" took place, the difference wasn't as obvious.
You *can* actually still get real Coke, btw. Look for it around Passover. It has a Kosher mark and yellow caps/marking.
Corn Syrup isn't Kosher for Passover...so they make it with sugar. But you knew that already, didn't ya'?
So next Spring, stock up.
-K
In theory, the 450Mhz MoBo/cpu combo will run about the price of a PII-500 cpu/Mobo combo. PPCs cost about the same as high end PII's at retail.
My story on this, with comment from Jason Haas (I learned about this during MacWorld Expo but was sworn to secrecy) should be running sometime today, but this thing has been in the works for quite awhile.
The funny thing is, anyone could have really done this because the specs have been sitting on IBM's public ftp site for years. After Apple killed clone licensing, nobody saw any reason to make the things.
Thank God for Linux.
And there are Quicktime players, not written by Apple, for Linux. Quicktime is a File format that is quite open. The problem is with the *codecs*...some Apple, some not.
As a Quicktme author, I can quite easily generate QT content that can be view from Linux...I just can use any old codec.
-K
I've worked at home for most of this year, due to a car accident.
I have to tell you, it's NOT all wine and roses. I actually have serval friends (all GA/Designers) that have done it for years...it nearly drove one crazy and broke p another's marriage almost.
The problem is 'your job is not your life' unless you live alone.
And 'getting out' becaomes the highlight of what you do.
If you work at home, you *will* work more unpaid hours than if you were in the office...and smart companies know this.
You see, since its more uncommon than common in most markets, telecommuters work harder and extra so as not to 'ruin' it...for themselves, or others.
Conversely, these 'work-at-home-like' offices (motely fool's webdev is set up like this) has a dark side too...someone *else* decides when 'playtime' is over, and I've know more than a couple of folks that have been sent packing over these kinds of...misunderstabndings.
What I think is needed is a bit more balance...maybe 2 days at the office, 3 days offsite.
-K
What I meant to say was...
Ask your Grandma what here childhood was like. Even if she couldn't drink out out of certain water fountains, or eat in certain restaurants (mine was not), I'll bet she'll tell you that overall the world was still a better place.
I find it odd that in today's world, especially teenagers, folks are so 'causal'...but the causes have nothing to do with consequence.
When I was 17, not so long ago, all I wanted to do was see Nancy and Tipper burn in hell.
But I grew up in the 70's and 80's before Sex and Drugs were an unlikely but remotely possible path to death, not synonymous to it.
It's just wierd for me, someone who likes youthful things, to see a generation that is SO SMART about so much be so oblivious to the future.
Well, you got the smoking thing right, at least...although i ain't too keen on methods that are being used to drive the point home.
Preaching aside, my point is this: Let's not rule out or toss aside the responsibility that comes with the power.
You said it yourself:
"I have no problem with that, in fact based on what I've seen in reviews and TV episodes, I'd recommend that most parents not let their children see it..."
This proves you *know* its not right.
BUT, you then say...
"but to put that choice into the hands of a bunch of old ppl is ludicrous (sp?)."
Who else would you put it in the hands of?
Don't make the mistake our parents did (Young adults of the late 60's)...there *is* a such thing as too much freedom, in the wrong hands.
Look around you. Can you walk into a record store and *easily* find something you'd play for your Grandma, or a 4 year old? Do you feel safe outside your home? Been to a typical big city? Know where to find the open-air drug markets? Ever been a kid, and seen a kid shoot another kid in the face?
Ask your Grandma what here childhood was like. Even if she couldn't drink out out of certain water fountains, or eat in certain restaurants like mine, I'll bet she'll tell you that over all the world was still a better place.
-K
You said:
" Every person the same age has the same amount of experience, regardless of intellect.
...
If you really believe that, you've had an easy life. Congratulations; not everyone is so lucky."
Heh. I wish that was the case. Heh.
But no one will be able to convince me that second and third graders have a 'natural right as individuals' to drink, curse, have sex and be generally beligerant. It's not good for them, or us.
As as parents, and responsible adults, or in the case of some here, soon-to-be adults, we would be wise to keep an eye on this.
Rememeber folks, Bill Gates (who gets a nice turn in the movie...heheheh) didn't become as rich, powerful and dare I say, dangerous as he is overnight. It took years and years of folks downplaying the threat and taking their eye off the ball.
So if you think some snot-nosed cursing disrespectful self-centered and self-absorbed *child* in the real world (as opposed to the movies...) is *cute* or *going through a phase*, remember this when they are twenty and have no regard for anyone or anything.
If you have a kid and you think it's no big deal now (not the poster, his position was clear) be not surprised when they are 16, bigger and faster than you and knock you on your ass when you try to put your foot down.
I've seen it happen. Repeatedly. It makes me...sad.
And in every case, the parent had a 'hands off, let 'em be their own person' attitude, and truely believed they were doing the right thing...
Slapping your Mom or Dad around certainly does not seem like the right thing to an 'old' guy like me...
-K
This nealy brought a tear to me eye, in the very real sense.
I've always had a small fear that us 'Atari Babies' might look to some of the ills of our Moms and Dads as the Final Blueprint, and ignore some of the Good that their parents tried to instill in them before they fell the hell off.
I know the yougest of the young don't have the bennies of having a Grandma that was able to instill if not some "Good Old-Fashioned God-Fearing 'Mrekin Values" but at least some "Common Sense" (as opposed to what my Grandmother reffered to as "Book Sense"), but I always feared that enough of it didn't get thru to the 25-34 year olds like myself.
I'm glad I was wrong. Thanks.
-K
You Said:
:).
:)
"Ok, first I agree with you for the most part, parents need to take responsibility for there children, however I do not see any problem with anyone older than 12 going to see this movie."
Two questions, and neither is meant to be condescending:
1) How old are you again? 16. Ahh to be 16 again
2) Do you have children? If you parents are doing their job, I'd say no.
That fact that you agree that parents should be responsible for their children, but then state that it's not a bad idea to have a 13yr-old a jubilent catchy Broadway-style musical piece titled 'Uncle Fucka', as well as checking out Saddam and Satan in bed whilst Saddam reveals several life-like dildos makes me wonder about your judgement.
You said:
"I do not agree with your idea that a 16 year old can't have just as much experience if not more than a 20 year old, it all depends on how your raised, if as you seem to think children should be moderated and prevented from seeing certain movies and such, then obviously they will have less experience than someone who does get to watch those movies."
This is a horride example about one of the ills of they so-called 'Human Potential Movement' that started in the 60's, which is now only rearing it's ugly head with my generation and the one below.
It's also a fallacy, as well as mathematically incorrect
Exposure does not bring experience, time does. it is the essence of what experience is. Exposed brings information, but not necessarily the facilities to handle it.
Look at the impact of children exposed to sex and violent abuse, or, if you want something less moralistic and more on the geek track, the experiences of prodogies thrust into adult and young adult situations.
I remember a boy that went to my College Prep High School named Bala. Some of you old enough may have heard of him as he made national news in the late 80's. he breezed thru City College high, and ended up at JHU at 12. He couldn't take it. He was not socially equipted for the environment. Most 17 and 18 year-olds aren't.
Putting a brilliant 12-year old in with a bunch of college freshmen has proven time and time again to be a bad idea.
What is needed is something that feeds the intellect, in an eviron that matches the experience.
You said:
"The only reason the movie got a R rating is because it insulted the beliefies and ideas of a
majority of the US for the sake of making a point that people are to uptight about everything."
As someone who has seen the movie twice, I assure you that the R rating was well deserved. It is solidly aimed at adults and for adults. It contained more than enough nudity, adult language, adult themes and strong sexual content to warrant an R rating, regardless of it's socio-political message.
After you defy authority and sneak in to see it, let me know what you think.
And try to let me know from the point of view of a 29-year old Dad with two young boys.
I promise you that you won't be able to...but I well understand where you are coming from. It was not that long ago that I was 16
-K