I refuse to believe that any sane person in their right mind would allow a child to see this.
Before you break out the naphtha, read on.
As an adult, i enjoyed the movie very much. it goes right to the heart of something that has bugged the hell out of me for many years: the lack of responsibility that parents take, or refuse to take, for their children.
Now, I'm by no means 'old' (I'm 29, to be exact) but the one thing I refused to get caught up in is the whole society/movie/tv/radio/Canada Blame Game.
Modern society has, I'm sorry to say, shifted its focus FAR, FAR away from the *proper* upbringing of our children. And the *worse* group is *not* the Moralists...oh no. It is the group that wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater, that wants to remove sane limits because 'limits' in and of themselves are 'bad'.
Are they? There are reasons why *children* should not be exposed to certain things, and they aren't that complicated: Children have limited experience. As adults it is *supposed to be* our job to allow them to grow long enough to have the *experience* to make good judgements.
It has *nothing* to do with intellect, rebellion or any other romantic notion. It has to do with a cold, hard truth that often escapes the average mind, but geek culture especially:
Every person the same age has the same amount of experience, regardless of intellect.
That is to say, that unless they are brain-damaged or suffer from mental illness, a 22yaer-old CEO has the same amount of practical, real-world survival experience as a 22-year old drummer in a garage band. They may excel at different disciplines, but overall they are on the same level.
Now, put a 12 year-old in a typical situation of a 22-year-old. No matter how *smart* they are, they lack the saavy that comes with the additional 10 years of life experience.
We are all smart here, and if we put our respective flag-wavings aside, you can see that there is merit to this.
*I* know that South Pak is a compelling look into the evils of society *as a whole* refusing to accept the responsibily laid upon them...especially today's career and goal oriented Dads and Moms, who feel it is perfectly OK to leave your 10 year-old unattended for 18 hours a day. If they tun out bad, the blame is easily shifted away from irresponsibe parents. If I had my way, the *parents* of those murderous Littleton boys would be dropping trou and grabbin' ankles...they are just as guilty, if not moreso. The kind of parents and their enabling society who feel that it is not *their* job to monitor the crap their kids watch on TV, the garbage they listen to, who the hell they hang out with and where they get things from that they as parents did not buy, or give them money to buy.
That's the messae behind the movie, cursing, killing, pandering and taboo-blasting aside.
I'm 29...I understand this. If I were 12-16, my understanding, or more to the point, what I did with that understanding, is another point entirely, and would most likely be to my detriment, and the detriment of others around me...simply because I just wouldn't know any better.
The South Park movie contains strong statements about the way parents in our country and society *should be* and I for one agree with the message 100%
That's why my kids, and any other person's kids I know who's parents will listen won't be getting anywhere near that movie.
Responsibility is a bitch. Parental responsibility is something I feel a lot of you here haven't faced yet, but when you do, and you know that the long-term existance of another life rests squarely on your shoulders, then you too will know just how much of a bitch responsibility is.
Go see South Park. Leave your little cousin at home.
...there is no way in hell I'd let any child of mine anywhere near that movie.
The Soundtrack is foul and funny as shit. They are pushing it to the edge.
Remember movies get ratings based on conent and context. The corruption, excuse me, the complete and total corruption of little White Kids is not something censors have any sense of humor about in 'Merka.
Remember the movie Kids, a movie that should be *required viewing* by teenagers (IMHO)? They cut the movie to hell and gone and still could not get an R-rating?
Or how about the horrible Spawn movie? They wanted to, and damned near did, give it a R rating simply because it was about a guy who went to hell and came back...just to keep the kids away from it since it was based on a comic book.
BTW, South Park ROOOLS...when it isn't in perpetual repeats...
...a bigger epub picked it up. All over the US, @Home has been doing this, and get indignant if you 'call them' on their ploy.
You see, along with lowering the xfer rates, making thinks like video out or audio out or game servers (which folks, are really what they are trying to kill. Every OS out their with any usage numbers runs a webserver when it boots up...) useless, they are slightly (and in some cases not so slihtly) raising the rates, or charginge extra for the cable'modem' when they previously were not.
The reason most folks around here that I know (power users and such) got cable modems was to avoid the limitations and cost of DirectPC, which @Home consantly compared itself to in its sales material.
Now they are really no better.
But, I'm a Sprint customer; they'll be taking care of me real soon...
Documentation is in fact a seriously killer app. One that Linuxdom sorely lacks, I might add...
And you are right about one thing. Back in the day, Linux offered a promise of nothing, and quite frankly, that was a strength.
These days, the 18-24 crowd fuels a fire that cannot burn. Linux cannot leave its Techie niche because it is born, breed and fed by folks that don't see the point of canning all of their bright ideas so that someone that isn't so bright can take advantage of them.
As far as I'm concerned, the darkest day in Linuxdom came when Microcr, er, MindCraft delt their hand. You can argue the 'benchmarketing' all you want, but M$ basically played an old, old game that the OSS crew wasn't ready for:
Shit, or get off the pot.
I've seen many, many Linux-Centric products with great potential, but they fall down in the Class, Style and Execution categories.
But know one wants to hear a word of it.
I've heard the following insane notions:
"GiMP is as good as, if not better than PhotoShop" -Not if you want to print anything for the really-for real world on a really-for-real press. Sorry.
"KDE brings Linux to the Destop...it's better than Windows" -This is highly arguable at best. Delusional is more like it. And Gnome? OK. Riiiight. You won't be killing the giant with this combo.
"Zope is a better Application server than WebObjects, and you can't beat the price." Hooboy. Complete nonesense. But-
Zope isn't bad. It has shitty docs, a kludgy install process, and a *much* more programmer-oriented bent than the Zope boys want to admit...but it ain't even close to WebObjects.
But it's not bad.
There's the PHP/Cold Fusion thing too. Again, PHP, very powerful...if C is your bag.
Look at it this way, if no other way will 'parse' for you.
Everthing outside of the Win32 Office Suite that M$ offers has been from the start a *baaad* knock-off or fast-follower of something superior. Office is the ONLY thing MS makes that's worth having...and they know it. Look at the MSRP.
You need to aim higher, and shed the nerd/geek elitist shield and join the party, or wind up a bigger, more knarly and eccentric version of 'Team OS/2'.
Where do you want to go tomorrow? Think Better.
If any of this gets through to 1% of you guys, then the whole thing has a chance in hell. But as long as OSS SocioReligious Groupthink reigns supreme, then ass out is all y'all is gon' be.
and the so-called "Linux Movement" branch thereof is in fact this:
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that I have seen since 1993 from the Linux Camp has yet to approach the quality of *any* commecial offerings, even crappy SCO. Not in the Application space, the kernel...nothing.
Call me a troll, tell me how I "don't get it" all you want, flick me off as an annoying Mac guy (who has been using Linux longer than *many of you, BTW) if it makes you feel better, but the truth is not *one of you* can point to a single thing that is solely OSS built and supported that does a better job, with clearer instructions as to how to get the job done (a *very* important part of the equation) than a commercial offering.
You can't. We, as I'm somewhat a part of this group as a Linux user, have yet to get over this hurdle.
What's worse is anytime anyone, from within, from the outside or in the middle, brings up this point, it's greeted with vitriol...or worse.
But never solutions. Never.
The best anyone comes up with is Apache or the Apache/PHP combo, but it doesn't meet all of the requirements.
The OSS, and specifically Linux, model is based in fact on socialists priciples, which, quite frankly have been proven to cater ultimatley to the Lowest Common Denominator, the 'just enough' concept if you will.
Ask yourselves this: if it was such a great idea in the first place, then why in hell do we have all these other Unix vendors/flavors and other OS's in the first place?
Added Value.
Does linux add value? Sure it does. You get the source. The real question is this:
When it all comes down to it, ideology aside, does it really matter?
The answer is 'no' it does not. As nice as the "Major Multinational XYZ backs Linux, ports Widgets2.3" press releases sound, the reality is Linux is more of a niche OS than MacOS is, but less so than BeOS.
It's niche is the Hacker Niche. The only reason why it's getting any play at all is that everyone pretty much hates MicroSoft, and the hacker pool is fairly young, cheap and easily manipulated by ideology. Great cheap skilled labor force for Multinationals that don't have their heads up the'r behinds.
Linux does not bring anything new to the table, which is why it will never overtake WindowsAnything in the hearts and minds of the majority.
You see, not since those heady days of the Early 80's has anyone, hardware or sofware wise come up with something earth-shattering.
Well, maybe Palm Computing, but these were ex-Apple guys. May RealNetworks-no, wait, ex-MS folks.
Be. Well...not exactly.
If you have any insight, you'll see where this is going.
What the Linux crowd needs to do is focus on changing the *way* people *use* computing and computing devices, instead of why Open Source is So Great.
Because, looking at it with *objective* eyes, it has yet to live up to the hype, the promise, or the poential I felt it had oh-so-long ago, downloading Slackware disk sets on a 2400bps Genuine HayesModem on a Mac to and xfering the files to a hacked together 386...
I talked the the isp of the indidual in question. They have a very interesting setup.
They cater to corp types that want access so that they can post, etc. w/o exposing their employers to litigation and so on.
To this end they route all outgoing to one ip address to further mask an indidual machine frome outsiders.
So far, so good.
However, they have a standing policy (as well as their upstream provider) that they carry no responsibily for user posts (icluding IRC, etc) but don't 'condone' it. They won't issue any punitive action, in other words.
I'm not sure how I feel about this either, but I suppose it is a 'sign of the times...'
The net is relatively self-policing, but when folks up the line shirk this duty, where does this leave us?
Mind you this is not an anon reposting service, but a full-service ISP.
Have we lost something here (on the net) with this sort of approach?
More to think about, because as I said, many of use here make a living online that is so tied to the net, that oftentimes no other physical-media equivelent (paper/cdroms/pcbs, etc) exist.
I always post as me, use a real email address etc for a very important reason that I think a lot of us have overlooked.
The net gives the above-average/saavy user great power, greater than say the phone to which the average person uses to connect to it, but in most cases, not as great as say, broadcast tv.
What it does not do is add a level of *personal responsibily* on parity with that power.
I'm going through this right now. I'm being defamed on a 'public forum' on a privately-owned website by someone using an assumed name because this person *thinks* I am someone else.
Now for the most part, we learn to ignore it. In this case the poster is making quite nasty, and patently untrue statements, some even with racial overtones (which I generally ignore as well) to an audience that I write for, and cannot verify the basis of his false claims do to software/platform related issues.
What's more, is that since this individual feels that he is 'protected' by his ISP's 'hands-off'-ish policy, he can continue, despite repeated warnings, with impunity.
Now I ask you: is this what we had in mind, people?
Sure, not quite on the same scale as spreading false financial info...or is it?
As we move ever-forward, many (many) of us make our living totally within the confines of BitSpace.
And word, true or otherwise, travels real fast out here.
Sure, we want to be protected from the spammers, etc.
But for the level of power the net gives the indiviual, we may need another level of checks and balances as well for public posting.
At least here on/. you can demote the AC's. Maybe we need a Net-Wide 'license to post' as well.
I grabbed it (the binary distrib) and installed it last night.
It is in fact BS4.4 over Mach3, wth Apple/NeXT's supplemental directory structure.
There was no GUI included...it runs in/as a shell.
If you've ever used NeXT/Openstep (or MacOS X 10) it will all look familiar to you.
Apparently, *this* core, Darwin 0.2, and not the one that MacOS X Server is currently running on top of, is what Mac OS X ("Client"), which was released as a Developer Preview yesterday at WWDC, is based on.
Apple has moved to egcs as well.
So, for all those that think Apple is full of Poopy-Doo Doo's, it's right there in front of ya'.
Apple is and will be building it's libraries (MacOS API, Java and Openstep/CoCo) on top of what's on that website...just like they said.
So as much as some of us like to rag on Apple, it appears to be w/o merit this time...they are doing what they said they would. And I don't see anyone else with a commercial OS even releasing a teensy bit of what makes it tick...
The kernel should be able to be brought up on a PC, but I need to have a closer look at whether or not they run the shell in character mode on a PC), or on a bitmapped screen like in the old Openstep. If it's on a bitmapped screen, there might be driver issues...
I suppose I could just ask them...Wilfredo Sanchez spends a lot of time on the dev list...
Dreamweaver is *the* tool for design. Not only is it true WYSIWYG, it also does *not* reformat your code, is JavaScript extensible, has great site management, but also has direct support for Cold Fusion, WebObjects, etc, and if you're clever, you can add support for things like Zope as well.
As to the 'text editor' crowd:
"Using a text editor to code HTML pages is like doing page layout in raw Postscript."
For a prime example of the kinds of, er, citizens that I have to deal with, check out www.macopinion.com's forums.
There is a huge differnce from a Senior Staff Software Engineer for Lockheed Martin Astronautics (John) and some moron calling themselves MaCfReAK or some other such nonsense getting it loud and wrong...
It's a VERY good movie. No reviewer can do it justice, and quite frankly, if you didn't go into like I did (I completely ignored everything about the movie but the trailer) you've got a preconceived notin or two that will *quickly* go away.
As for our most Excellent Star...
He can't help himself. I guess he figures better a plastic man than being cast as Ted for the rest of his life. Although Ted always slips out one way or another...
Look and Feel...blame the Kroffts.
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Hey, if it was worth stealing, then it was worth protecting.
The two best ui's on Earth are Apple flavored:
The Next UI, and the Mac UI.
C'mon. Give'em credit where credit is due.
-K
I'm so ashamed - AS WELL YOU SHOULD BE
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Because it would be helpful to me.
Because it would be helpful to tother BSD users.
Because it would be helpful, period. -K
And what is Linux, if not
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a rehash of the same ol' thing? What *real* innovation has come out of all of this? I mean let's be honest here:
Linux is a Unix clone.
Right?!?
has this NOT been done and done to death?
As a matter of fact, virtually every attempt I've seen to do something truely new (Qt/cgi0 has been beaten back.
I am peronally getting REAL FUCKING TIRED of you children and this constant stupidity...
And folks wonder why I hate the Bottom Half of GenX (I'm 29, screw you TOO pal).
There is nothing wrong with Apple, IBM, Intel, MicroSoft, RedHat, Caldera, Corel or anyone else having something Unique and Proprietary. Absolutly nothing.
And as a *DAILY* LinuxUser (on Intel...doesn't yet run on my new G3) I have to tell you guys...you are FAR WORSE than the most Rabid Mac, AtariST or Amiga users I've ever met in all my years.
What's WORSE is that you all seem to feel high and mighty over core OS technology that is over 25 years old, that has been done and done and done and done some more. To Death. The newest from scratch OS out there is BeOS, and ya' TRASH THAT TOO...
I personally DO NOT GET IT. I'm using a slapdashed piecemealed Unix clone called Linux on a slow assed PII 300 Gateway that has a whole bunch of 18-22 year olds believing they are part of something *new* (huh?!?), but I can turn my chair a quarter of a turn and find a Sun, another quarter of a turn and find an sgi orgin. Two companies that have been doing it longer and better, but they get the bullshit from you folks too.
Here's my expert opinion on open source: Find a Grown-UP real live company to manage some of you rude, loud-mouthed technoreligionists, THEN see how much broad market penetration y'all get.
I mean for the love of God, a couple of days back I saw a bunch of basher messages because LinuxPPC was being distributed with MacWorld!!
This is a BAD THING for Linux/OpenSource/slashdot weenieheads?!?!
Whatever. Linux World Domination will come riding in on the bash prompt...
Ha!
You should be thanking all of these companies (Apple/IBM/SGI/Sun/Microsoft) who figured out 15 years ago what you nimrods haven't learned yet:
The secret is to take all of your infinite cleverness and 'can' it so that everyone doesn't have to have a degree (or anywhere near it) to benefit from your wisdom.
But you idiots are too busy arguing over which shitty FE/GUI is better for linux (or none at all) instead of figuring out how to make it a non-issue to the end users.
I hope all the power DOES go out in January...it will give you folks some time to learn people skills, cus' we're even meaner IRL...
I interviewed the creator of iMacFloppy months ago (he's designed several point of sale/online ordering systems as well) to ask him, quite frankly, why not email attachments, etc.
The point was to that whatever was stored could be retrieved from any machine, anywhere via a simple web interface. No custom software, etc.
As for setting up personal ftp servers, using some sort of net file system...these things are not single shot, quick and easy no brainers.
And quie frankly, as many of you 16-24 year olds that hang out here know, being clever for the sake of having something to brag about in a flame war (to borrow from jefferson Airplane) "doesn't mean shit to a tree"...
Or to put it another way: As smart as some of you folks (think you) are, you can't market you clever ness for shit; you're to self-deluded with you 'eleetness' (like anyone has been genuinly so since the 80's...).
None of you would have ever thought of the idea, let alone it's marketabily, because it's too 'stupid'.
Shame. You probably could have done it better.
You could probably also design better UI's for the blind or terminally Computerphobic, based on linux underpinnings...or the next N64 for that matter.
But why? Easy = stupid to you folks.
There's a LOT of cash to be made wrapping complexity in a candy-coated shell, and the *really* saavy folks figured it out a long time ago:
"It takes someone really smart to figure out something complex, but it takes a true genuis to make accessable to simpletons."
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I refuse to believe that any sane person in their right mind would allow a child to see this.
Before you break out the naphtha, read on.
As an adult, i enjoyed the movie very much. it goes right to the heart of something that has bugged the hell out of me for many years: the lack of responsibility that parents take, or refuse to take, for their children.
Now, I'm by no means 'old' (I'm 29, to be exact) but the one thing I refused to get caught up in is the whole society/movie/tv/radio/Canada Blame Game.
Modern society has, I'm sorry to say, shifted its focus FAR, FAR away from the *proper* upbringing of our children. And the *worse* group is *not* the Moralists...oh no. It is the group that wants to throw out the baby with the bathwater, that wants to remove sane limits because 'limits' in and of themselves are 'bad'.
Are they? There are reasons why *children* should not be exposed to certain things, and they aren't that complicated: Children have limited experience. As adults it is *supposed to be* our job to allow them to grow long enough to have the *experience* to make good judgements.
It has *nothing* to do with intellect, rebellion or any other romantic notion. It has to do with a cold, hard truth that often escapes the average mind, but geek culture especially:
Every person the same age has the same amount of experience, regardless of intellect.
That is to say, that unless they are brain-damaged or suffer from mental illness, a 22yaer-old CEO has the same amount of practical, real-world survival experience as a 22-year old drummer in a garage band. They may excel at different disciplines, but overall they are on the same level.
Now, put a 12 year-old in a typical situation of a 22-year-old. No matter how *smart* they are, they lack the saavy that comes with the additional 10 years of life experience.
We are all smart here, and if we put our respective flag-wavings aside, you can see that there is merit to this.
*I* know that South Pak is a compelling look into the evils of society *as a whole* refusing to accept the responsibily laid upon them...especially today's career and goal oriented Dads and Moms, who feel it is perfectly OK to leave your 10 year-old unattended for 18 hours a day. If they tun out bad, the blame is easily shifted away from irresponsibe parents. If I had my way, the *parents* of those murderous Littleton boys would be dropping trou and grabbin' ankles...they are just as guilty, if not moreso. The kind of parents and their enabling society who feel that it is not *their* job to monitor the crap their kids watch on TV, the garbage they listen to, who the hell they hang out with and where they get things from that they as parents did not buy, or give them money to buy.
That's the messae behind the movie, cursing, killing, pandering and taboo-blasting aside.
I'm 29...I understand this. If I were 12-16, my understanding, or more to the point, what I did with that understanding, is another point entirely, and would most likely be to my detriment, and the detriment of others around me...simply because I just wouldn't know any better.
The South Park movie contains strong statements about the way parents in our country and society *should be* and I for one agree with the message 100%
That's why my kids, and any other person's kids I know who's parents will listen won't be getting anywhere near that movie.
Responsibility is a bitch. Parental responsibility is something I feel a lot of you here haven't faced yet, but when you do, and you know that the long-term existance of another life rests squarely on your shoulders, then you too will know just how much of a bitch responsibility is.
Go see South Park. Leave your little cousin at home.
-K
You'll see.
It's a great movie for aduls, but 13years/younger really have no business in the theatre.
I think limits should be placed on *kids* not adults.
My two boys won't be seeint it hat is for damned sure.
I'll be at the matinee =)
-K
...there is no way in hell I'd let any child of mine anywhere near that movie.
The Soundtrack is foul and funny as shit. They are pushing it to the edge.
Remember movies get ratings based on conent and context. The corruption, excuse me, the complete and total corruption of little White Kids is not something censors have any sense of humor about in 'Merka.
Remember the movie Kids, a movie that should be *required viewing* by teenagers (IMHO)? They cut the movie to hell and gone and still could not get an R-rating?
Or how about the horrible Spawn movie? They wanted to, and damned near did, give it a R rating simply because it was about a guy who went to hell and came back...just to keep the kids away from it since it was based on a comic book.
BTW, South Park ROOOLS...when it isn't in perpetual repeats...
-K
...a bigger epub picked it up. All over the US, @Home has been doing this, and get indignant if you 'call them' on their ploy.
You see, along with lowering the xfer rates, making thinks like video out or audio out or game servers (which folks, are really what they are trying to kill. Every OS out their with any usage numbers runs a webserver when it boots up...) useless, they are slightly (and in some cases not so slihtly) raising the rates, or charginge extra for the cable'modem' when they previously were not.
The reason most folks around here that I know (power users and such) got cable modems was to avoid the limitations and cost of DirectPC, which @Home consantly compared itself to in its sales material.
Now they are really no better.
But, I'm a Sprint customer; they'll be taking care of me real soon...
-K
Documentation is in fact a seriously killer app. One that Linuxdom sorely lacks, I might add...
And you are right about one thing. Back in the day, Linux offered a promise of nothing, and quite frankly, that was a strength.
These days, the 18-24 crowd fuels a fire that cannot burn. Linux cannot leave its Techie niche because it is born, breed and fed by folks that don't see the point of canning all of their bright ideas so that someone that isn't so bright can take advantage of them.
As far as I'm concerned, the darkest day in Linuxdom came when Microcr, er, MindCraft delt their hand. You can argue the 'benchmarketing' all you want, but M$ basically played an old, old game that the OSS crew wasn't ready for:
Shit, or get off the pot.
I've seen many, many Linux-Centric products with great potential, but they fall down in the Class, Style and Execution categories.
But know one wants to hear a word of it.
I've heard the following insane notions:
"GiMP is as good as, if not better than PhotoShop"
-Not if you want to print anything for the really-for real world on a really-for-real press. Sorry.
"KDE brings Linux to the Destop...it's better than Windows"
-This is highly arguable at best. Delusional is more like it. And Gnome? OK. Riiiight. You won't be killing the giant with this combo.
"Zope is a better Application server than WebObjects, and you can't beat the price."
Hooboy. Complete nonesense. But-
Zope isn't bad. It has shitty docs, a kludgy install process, and a *much* more programmer-oriented bent than the Zope boys want to admit...but it ain't even close to WebObjects.
But it's not bad.
There's the PHP/Cold Fusion thing too. Again, PHP, very powerful...if C is your bag.
Look at it this way, if no other way will 'parse' for you.
Everthing outside of the Win32 Office Suite that M$ offers has been from the start a *baaad* knock-off or fast-follower of something superior. Office is the ONLY thing MS makes that's worth having...and they know it. Look at the MSRP.
You need to aim higher, and shed the nerd/geek elitist shield and join the party, or wind up a bigger, more knarly and eccentric version of 'Team OS/2'.
Where do you want to go tomorrow? Think Better.
If any of this gets through to 1% of you guys, then the whole thing has a chance in hell. But as long as OSS SocioReligious Groupthink reigns supreme, then ass out is all y'all is gon' be.
We'll see.
-K
and the so-called "Linux Movement" branch thereof is in fact this:
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, that I have seen since 1993 from the Linux Camp has yet to approach the quality of *any* commecial offerings, even crappy SCO. Not in the Application space, the kernel...nothing.
Call me a troll, tell me how I "don't get it" all you want, flick me off as an annoying Mac guy (who has been using Linux longer than *many of you, BTW) if it makes you feel better, but the truth is not *one of you* can point to a single thing that is solely OSS built and supported that does a better job, with clearer instructions as to how to get the job done (a *very* important part of the equation) than a commercial offering.
You can't. We, as I'm somewhat a part of this group as a Linux user, have yet to get over this hurdle.
What's worse is anytime anyone, from within, from the outside or in the middle, brings up this point, it's greeted with vitriol...or worse.
But never solutions. Never.
The best anyone comes up with is Apache or the Apache/PHP combo, but it doesn't meet all of the requirements.
The OSS, and specifically Linux, model is based in fact on socialists priciples, which, quite frankly have been proven to cater ultimatley to the Lowest Common Denominator, the 'just enough' concept if you will.
Ask yourselves this: if it was such a great idea in the first place, then why in hell do we have all these other Unix vendors/flavors and other OS's in the first place?
Added Value.
Does linux add value? Sure it does. You get the source. The real question is this:
When it all comes down to it, ideology aside, does it really matter?
The answer is 'no' it does not. As nice as the "Major Multinational XYZ backs Linux, ports Widgets2.3" press releases sound, the reality is Linux is more of a niche OS than MacOS is, but less so than BeOS.
It's niche is the Hacker Niche. The only reason why it's getting any play at all is that everyone pretty much hates MicroSoft, and the hacker pool is fairly young, cheap and easily manipulated by ideology. Great cheap skilled labor force for Multinationals that don't have their heads up the'r behinds.
Linux does not bring anything new to the table, which is why it will never overtake WindowsAnything in the hearts and minds of the majority.
You see, not since those heady days of the Early 80's has anyone, hardware or sofware wise come up with something earth-shattering.
Well, maybe Palm Computing, but these were ex-Apple guys. May RealNetworks-no, wait, ex-MS folks.
Be. Well...not exactly.
If you have any insight, you'll see where this is going.
What the Linux crowd needs to do is focus on changing the *way* people *use* computing and computing devices, instead of why Open Source is So Great.
Because, looking at it with *objective* eyes, it has yet to live up to the hype, the promise, or the poential I felt it had oh-so-long ago, downloading Slackware disk sets on a 2400bps Genuine HayesModem on a Mac to and xfering the files to a hacked together 386...
-K
Ok...how about 'online' or 'via the internet' then?
Sheesh! Was that really called for?
Now see, if you were an AC, I'd be way more pissed somehow.
Go Figure.
-K
I talked the the isp of the indidual in question. They have a very interesting setup.
They cater to corp types that want access so that they can post, etc. w/o exposing their employers to litigation and so on.
To this end they route all outgoing to one ip address to further mask an indidual machine frome outsiders.
So far, so good.
However, they have a standing policy (as well as their upstream provider) that they carry no responsibily for user posts (icluding IRC, etc) but don't 'condone' it. They won't issue any punitive action, in other words.
I'm not sure how I feel about this either, but I suppose it is a 'sign of the times...'
The net is relatively self-policing, but when folks up the line shirk this duty, where does this leave us?
Mind you this is not an anon reposting service, but a full-service ISP.
Have we lost something here (on the net) with this sort of approach?
More to think about, because as I said, many of use here make a living online that is so tied to the net, that oftentimes no other physical-media equivelent (paper/cdroms/pcbs, etc) exist.
-K
I always post as me, use a real email address etc for a very important reason that I think a lot of us have overlooked.
/. you can demote the AC's. Maybe we need a Net-Wide 'license to post' as well.
The net gives the above-average/saavy user great power, greater than say the phone to which the average person uses to connect to it, but in most cases, not as great as say, broadcast tv.
What it does not do is add a level of *personal responsibily* on parity with that power.
I'm going through this right now. I'm being defamed on a 'public forum' on a privately-owned website by someone using an assumed name because this person *thinks* I am someone else.
Now for the most part, we learn to ignore it. In this case the poster is making quite nasty, and patently untrue statements, some even with racial overtones (which I generally ignore as well) to an audience that I write for, and cannot verify the basis of his false claims do to software/platform related issues.
What's more, is that since this individual feels that he is 'protected' by his ISP's 'hands-off'-ish policy, he can continue, despite repeated warnings, with impunity.
Now I ask you: is this what we had in mind, people?
Sure, not quite on the same scale as spreading false financial info...or is it?
As we move ever-forward, many (many) of us make our living totally within the confines of BitSpace.
And word, true or otherwise, travels real fast out here.
Sure, we want to be protected from the spammers, etc.
But for the level of power the net gives the indiviual, we may need another level of checks and balances as well for public posting.
At least here on
-K
...is exactly why our society is a fscked as it is now...
Responsibility, felix, is what keeps most of us from just 'walking out the door'.
A foreign and unpopular concept these days, i know, but still.
Nevermind. I'll just join the pack and blame the 'net, "Hollywood" and idSoftware for the ills of society...
Sorry folks. Personal issue. Prolly shoulda just kept quiet...
-K
I grabbed it (the binary distrib) and installed it last night.
It is in fact BS4.4 over Mach3, wth Apple/NeXT's supplemental directory structure.
There was no GUI included...it runs in/as a shell.
If you've ever used NeXT/Openstep (or MacOS X 10) it will all look familiar to you.
Apparently, *this* core, Darwin 0.2, and not the one that MacOS X Server is currently running on top of, is what Mac OS X ("Client"), which was released as a Developer Preview yesterday at WWDC, is based on.
Apple has moved to egcs as well.
So, for all those that think Apple is full of Poopy-Doo Doo's, it's right there in front of ya'.
Apple is and will be building it's libraries (MacOS API, Java and Openstep/CoCo) on top of what's on that website...just like they said.
So as much as some of us like to rag on Apple, it appears to be w/o merit this time...they are doing what they said they would. And I don't see anyone else with a commercial OS even releasing a teensy bit of what makes it tick...
The kernel should be able to be brought up on a PC, but I need to have a closer look at whether or not they run the shell in character mode on a PC), or on a bitmapped screen like in the old Openstep. If it's on a bitmapped screen, there might be driver issues...
I suppose I could just ask them...Wilfredo Sanchez spends a lot of time on the dev list...
-K
See Dreamweaver.
I wonder, has any here actually *used* a modern tool? The days of Pagemill are *loooong* past on the pro circuit.
For someone who has been in Grapic Design and Publishing for *years* I have to disagree.
It's like saying that GiMP and Photoshop are in the same league.
They aren't.
If you want a pro design tool, you get pro tools.
If you want to be a code monkey and have geek bragging rites, you do it the hard way.
If you're *smart* you use both.
Me, I'm smart.
-K
I highly reccommend Macromedia's product line:
Dreamweaver 2
FireWorks 2
Freehand 8.
All xplatform, and tuned to Web development.
Dreamweaver is *the* tool for design. Not only is it true WYSIWYG, it also does *not* reformat your code, is JavaScript extensible, has great site management, but also has direct support for Cold Fusion, WebObjects, etc, and if you're clever, you can add support for things like Zope as well.
As to the 'text editor' crowd:
"Using a text editor to code HTML pages is like doing page layout in raw Postscript."
Period.
-K
Postcript, and Rage-,er, PageMaker.
I find it funny how similar uniformed platform zealos are, regardless of the platform and te Mantra that they spew...
-K
And you are DEAD wrong buddy.
As good as the GiMP is at what its good at, it is practically useless to profressional print designers.
It's funny, too, because as a Linux user, I see this all the time from people that all like like Scriptfu-thiss or GPL-that....
But, as it's been stated, it's not suitable for printing.
Ah well.
-K
by any reasonable definition of the term.
For a prime example of the kinds of, er, citizens that I have to deal with, check out www.macopinion.com's forums.
There is a huge differnce from a Senior Staff Software Engineer for Lockheed Martin Astronautics (John) and some moron calling themselves MaCfReAK or some other such nonsense getting it loud and wrong...
-K
There is no spoon.
It's a VERY good movie. No reviewer can do it justice, and quite frankly, if you didn't go into like I did (I completely ignored everything about the movie but the trailer) you've got a preconceived notin or two that will *quickly* go away.
As for our most Excellent Star...
He can't help himself. I guess he figures better a plastic man than being cast as Ted for the rest of his life. Although Ted always slips out one way or another...
Hey, if it was worth stealing, then it was worth protecting.
The two best ui's on Earth are Apple flavored:
The Next UI, and the Mac UI.
C'mon. Give'em credit where credit is due.
-K
Because it would be helpful to me.
Because it would be helpful to tother BSD users.
Because it would be helpful, period.
-K
a rehash of the same ol' thing? What *real* innovation has come out of all of this? I mean let's be honest here:
Linux is a Unix clone.
Right?!?
has this NOT been done and done to death?
As a matter of fact, virtually every attempt I've seen to do something truely new (Qt/cgi0 has been beaten back.
Hmmm.
It just shows ta' go ya' i guess...
You tell'em, baby!
:)
It's nice to see someone that at least has some experience about a thing posting a comment in a cool, calm and professional tone.
I loved the part about mtv for Linux, BTW
Now i the MacAmp (oops...might be time to rename...) could work out shoutcast/icecast support...
-K
Or any of the other (very nice) HiQ QT3 codecs...
As for the apple bashing:
I am peronally getting REAL FUCKING TIRED of you children and this constant stupidity...
And folks wonder why I hate the Bottom Half of GenX (I'm 29, screw you TOO pal).
There is nothing wrong with Apple, IBM, Intel, MicroSoft, RedHat, Caldera, Corel or anyone else having something Unique and Proprietary. Absolutly nothing.
And as a *DAILY* LinuxUser (on Intel...doesn't yet run on my new G3) I have to tell you guys...you are FAR WORSE than the most Rabid Mac, AtariST or Amiga users I've ever met in all my years.
What's WORSE is that you all seem to feel high and mighty over core OS technology that is over 25 years old, that has been done and done and done and done some more. To Death. The newest from scratch OS out there is BeOS, and ya' TRASH THAT TOO...
I personally DO NOT GET IT. I'm using a slapdashed piecemealed Unix clone called Linux on a slow assed PII 300 Gateway that has a whole bunch of 18-22 year olds believing they are part of something *new* (huh?!?), but I can turn my chair a quarter of a turn and find a Sun, another quarter of a turn and find an sgi orgin. Two companies that have been doing it longer and better, but they get the bullshit from you folks too.
Here's my expert opinion on open source: Find a Grown-UP real live company to manage some of you rude, loud-mouthed technoreligionists, THEN see how much broad market penetration y'all get.
I mean for the love of God, a couple of days back I saw a bunch of basher messages because LinuxPPC was being distributed with MacWorld!!
This is a BAD THING for Linux/OpenSource/slashdot weenieheads?!?!
Whatever. Linux World Domination will come riding in on the bash prompt...
Ha!
You should be thanking all of these companies (Apple/IBM/SGI/Sun/Microsoft) who figured out 15 years ago what you nimrods haven't learned yet:
The secret is to take all of your infinite cleverness and 'can' it so that everyone doesn't have to have a degree (or anywhere near it) to benefit from your wisdom.
But you idiots are too busy arguing over which shitty FE/GUI is better for linux (or none at all) instead of figuring out how to make it a non-issue to the end users.
I hope all the power DOES go out in January...it will give you folks some time to learn people skills, cus' we're even meaner IRL...
-K
for making a Un*x workalike without using Un*x source code :/
Sheesh.
I interviewed the creator of iMacFloppy months ago (he's designed several point of sale/online ordering systems as well) to ask him, quite frankly, why not email attachments, etc.
The point was to that whatever was stored could be retrieved from any machine, anywhere via a simple web interface. No custom software, etc.
As for setting up personal ftp servers, using some sort of net file system...these things are not single shot, quick and easy no brainers.
And quie frankly, as many of you 16-24 year olds that hang out here know, being clever for the sake of having something to brag about in a flame war (to borrow from jefferson Airplane) "doesn't mean shit to a tree"...
Or to put it another way: As smart as some of you folks (think you) are, you can't market you clever ness for shit; you're to self-deluded with you 'eleetness' (like anyone has been genuinly so since the 80's...).
None of you would have ever thought of the idea, let alone it's marketabily, because it's too 'stupid'.
Shame. You probably could have done it better.
You could probably also design better UI's for the blind or terminally Computerphobic, based on linux underpinnings...or the next N64 for that matter.
But why? Easy = stupid to you folks.
There's a LOT of cash to be made wrapping complexity in a candy-coated shell, and the *really* saavy folks figured it out a long time ago:
"It takes someone really smart to figure out something complex, but it takes a true genuis to make accessable to simpletons."
Think kids. Get paid for it.
-K