> ATi only ships binary drivers, and they are rather buggy so far.
The first series ATI drivers for the 9700 were good, actually. The only problem was that it didn't work with some people's cards, including mine. ATI released a new version in a few days that fixed all the issues, and the drivers have been rock solid for me since then.
This is true, but if you compare current 8500 drivers, it outperforms the gf3 Ti500. Before this last summer, however, the gf3 Ti500 always had the lead, mostly because of bad ATI drivers.
Of course, this is really not consequental anymore as neither the gf3ti500 or radeon 8500 are peaks of graphics card performance anymore.
> ATI has yet to do good in the software department. The only reason they release the spec is that they can't write drivers themselves. They can't even get one platform right, what makes you think that they can get all of them?
Actually, now, for all recent ATI cards, they are closed source, and since they did this, there has been a remarkable improvement with their driver quality (especially with the 9700 Pro).
Are you sure? Most people have had good success with the 9700 (pro). With it (and somewhat with later 8500 drivers), ATI seems to finally have turned around with drivers.
> I can't think of a game that needs more than that.
Of course, if you run very old games such as UT, you won't need a new video card, but if you play a recent game, such as ut2k3 or bf1942, and you want to play in high resolutions with things like FSAA, you will.
> I built this whole computer for less than the new 9700.
1. You are comparing a "All in Wonder" with TV tuner, etc.. with a regular card. 2. You are comparing a mid-range NVIDIA card gf4 ti4200 with the flagship ATI card.
Compare the price of a vanilla GF4 TI4600 (or 4800 when they come to market), and a vanilla Radeon 9700 Pro, and I'm sure you'll find different results (the Radeon will only be slightly higher priced for much better performance, yes, with even current games)
> monkeys who think getting 400 FPS in Quake3 timedemos means something over getting 300 FPS
Actually, getting 333 fps is very helpful in Quake3, because of the nature of the Quake3 Engine, it provides better physics. The previous best magic number was 125 fps. Toggling between the two can provide great improvements for many people who can sustain 333 fps.
> How do you get infected by a virus on Linux when everything is open source? Compile the code if you are paraniod, but if not, use MD5 or whatever the hell its called to verify every file you run.
Not everything in the Linux world is open sourced. There are many sectors of the software market that will continue to be primarily closed and propreitary. For example, any credible virus maker could easily distribute either a Linux or Windows versions of Quake3 with a virus embedded in it. Linux is not inheriently more virus-proof than Windows, but is so currently because of usage.
> Theres no way to hide a trojan in a file in Linux, its impossible to hide them because you can compile code yourself, even if you are infected by a virus due to your own stupidity of not checking the code, your entire computer is not infected, but just one user account, a virus cannot gain root access easily, and neither can a trojan.
Uh, when was the last time you personally checked (as in auditted), every line of a large(r) project, such as KDE, GNOME, apache, Mozilla, OO, etc.., before you compiled it and installed it. Do you really trust the source after you compile it? There have been many instances where crackers hack into open source websites/mirrors, and put in trojans directly in the source.
> Fact is, Linux is already the main target of hackers, no one writes viruses to kill home users computers.
Of course, but people will if Linux ever gets a big chunk of the desktop/home market.
> Patches dont work because they only protect you after you've been infected.
No, patches work so that the virii/trojan/hack doesn't work in the first place. Usually, other software must clear any infection.
It really depends on the bitrate. I am an audiophile, and I think I have quite sensitive ears, I beleive. However, at mid-level and beyond bitrates (i.e, 192-256 for mp3), I can't hear a difference between ogg's and LAME or new Fraunhofer-ripped mp3s.
Also, most times, I get comparable filesizes between OGG and mp3-vbr encoding. mp3-cbr is pretty much a waste of time (read some of r3mix's articles).
However, the main advantage to ogg's is that they have no patents attached.
He obviously has some errors in his hardware configuration then.
This is not the fault of the operating systems./me oogles all the kernel panics I got with linux/ppc for years and all the freezes I got with my x86 box with a VIA mobo, IBM hd, Linux, and DMA:/
That argument is not really valid. Every operating system supports virii and trojans. Granted, Windows has far many of them, but when patched/updated/auto-updated, something like WindowsXP should not be more prone to them than Linux. Windows just has way more virii and trojans as way more people use it.
If Linux ever conquers the desktop, you'll see many virii in it too.
> But for those who do run *nix as a desktop OS, there are so many alternative interfaces (how many themes for Enlightenment are there?) that completely blow XP out of the water, I cannot imagine where this deep desire for an XP clone comes from.
Have you thought that some people actually like/are used to Windows/WindowsXP and the Windows/XP look? Hence all the Luna theme knockoffs and Explorer-like file managers, and startmenu/taskbar knockoffs (kde, gnome, icewm, qvwm, just from the top of my head)
I don't think you understand the fact that there is no *one* true Linux experience.
It could be a number of things, such as:
1. Someone running Virtual Terminals and Screen only - no XWindows 2. Someone running XWindows with a "hardcore" window manager such as ion and ratpoison, or running an old window manager such as twm or mwm. 3. Someone running one of the mid-level window maangers such as wmaker, E, fluxbox, etc.. 4. Someone running stock versions of KDE/GNOME. 5. Someone running one of the various "windowzied" KDE versions such as Lindows/Lycoris/Xandros, etc.. 6. Someone running xpde.
None of them is the true "full Linux experience", because there is none.
On the other hand, if you really want to learn Linux from the inside out, I think you should take a look at LFS.
Try making him learn to administrate his computer a bit better. There is no reason winXP shouldn't be as stable as something like Linux if adminstrated properly. This is mainly because of Microsoft's improved quality and driver testing facilities since XP.
Sure.. as of October, according to this page, Yahoo searches/google searches/MSN searches were about equal in popularity here in the US. Of course, all three are/were powered by google.
Not really.. Yahoo searches have as many hits here in the US as Google's searches and MSN searches (all three powerered by google).. so, if yahoo's traffic is taken away, theoreatically, one third of google's hits from the US should be taken away. this is, of course, more or less for other countries.
I've had absolutely no lockups in X over the past six or so months. The drivers have come a looong way in stablity from the past. I remember about a year and a half ago, I used to get random lockups all the time, even after messing with many things like AGP 4x->2x, sidebanding off, fastwrites off, nvagpagpgart, etc.. But recently, it works fine pretty much out of the box.
Slashdot Mirror
> ATi only ships binary drivers, and they are rather buggy so far.
The first series ATI drivers for the 9700 were good, actually. The only problem was that it didn't work with some people's cards, including mine. ATI released a new version in a few days that fixed all the issues, and the drivers have been rock solid for me since then.
This is true, but if you compare current 8500 drivers, it outperforms the gf3 Ti500. Before this last summer, however, the gf3 Ti500 always had the lead, mostly because of bad ATI drivers.
Of course, this is really not consequental anymore as neither the gf3ti500 or radeon 8500 are peaks of graphics card performance anymore.
> ATI has yet to do good in the software department. The only reason they release the spec is that they can't write drivers themselves. They can't even get one platform right, what makes you think that they can get all of them?
Actually, now, for all recent ATI cards, they are closed source, and since they did this, there has been a remarkable improvement with their driver quality (especially with the 9700 Pro).
Are you sure? Most people have had good success with the 9700 (pro). With it (and somewhat with later 8500 drivers), ATI seems to finally have turned around with drivers.
> I can't think of a game that needs more than that.
Of course, if you run very old games such as UT, you won't need a new video card, but if you play a recent game, such as ut2k3 or bf1942, and you want to play in high resolutions with things like FSAA, you will.
> I built this whole computer for less than the new 9700.
Less than $250-$300? nice.
> Games or software that need 9700 over GeForce4 : 0
Have you played any modern games such as ut2k3 with 32 bit color and high resolutions, and FSAA and/or Aniso on?
Probably not.
Your comparison is completely invalid.
1. You are comparing a "All in Wonder" with TV tuner, etc.. with a regular card.
2. You are comparing a mid-range NVIDIA card gf4 ti4200 with the flagship ATI card.
Compare the price of a vanilla GF4 TI4600 (or 4800 when they come to market), and a vanilla Radeon 9700 Pro, and I'm sure you'll find different results (the Radeon will only be slightly higher priced for much better performance, yes, with even current games)
> monkeys who think getting 400 FPS in Quake3 timedemos means something over getting 300 FPS
Actually, getting 333 fps is very helpful in Quake3, because of the nature of the Quake3 Engine, it provides better physics. The previous best magic number was 125 fps. Toggling between the two can provide great improvements for many people who can sustain 333 fps.
> Oh and I have news for you as well, there will some other product few months after the release of GeForce FX that will badly outperform it
:P
Yep, and who is to say that ATI themselves won't put out a card that outclasses the FX at it's launch time.
> Normally I try to skip a at least two releases of the latest graphics card, unless there is some great leap in technology, or I have extra money...
Yep, same here.
Voodoo2->ATI Rage 128->TNT2->Geforce 1 DDR->GeForce3 200->GeForce4 4400->Radeon Pro 9700
I went from my gf3->gf4->rad9700-pro (one generation to the next to the next) because I had extra money
Doom3 will probably run fine on the 9700 pro, so I don't think I'll upgrade until the successor to the successor to the 9700pro/gf-FX comes out.
Umm, I've had Radeon 9700 Pro since mid-October.. the non-pro versions were much harder to find back then than the pro versions.
> How do you get infected by a virus on Linux when everything is open source? Compile the code if you are paraniod, but if not, use MD5 or whatever the hell its called to verify every file you run.
Not everything in the Linux world is open sourced. There are many sectors of the software market that will continue to be primarily closed and propreitary. For example, any credible virus maker could easily distribute either a Linux or Windows versions of Quake3 with a virus embedded in it. Linux is not inheriently more virus-proof than Windows, but is so currently because of usage.
> Theres no way to hide a trojan in a file in Linux, its impossible to hide them because you can compile code yourself, even if you are infected by a virus due to your own stupidity of not checking the code, your entire computer is not infected, but just one user account, a virus cannot gain root access easily, and neither can a trojan.
Uh, when was the last time you personally checked (as in auditted), every line of a large(r) project, such as KDE, GNOME, apache, Mozilla, OO, etc.., before you compiled it and installed it. Do you really trust the source after you compile it? There have been many instances where crackers hack into open source websites/mirrors, and put in trojans directly in the source.
> Fact is, Linux is already the main target of hackers, no one writes viruses to kill home users computers.
Of course, but people will if Linux ever gets a big chunk of the desktop/home market.
> Patches dont work because they only protect you after you've been infected.
No, patches work so that the virii/trojan/hack doesn't work in the first place. Usually, other software must clear any infection.
It really depends on the bitrate. I am an audiophile, and I think I have quite sensitive ears, I beleive. However, at mid-level and beyond bitrates (i.e, 192-256 for mp3), I can't hear a difference between ogg's and LAME or new Fraunhofer-ripped mp3s.
Also, most times, I get comparable filesizes between OGG and mp3-vbr encoding. mp3-cbr is pretty much a waste of time (read some of r3mix's articles).
However, the main advantage to ogg's is that they have no patents attached.
And this is why the most commonly used music player in Windows, winamp, has supported ogg vorbis for a while?
He obviously has some errors in his hardware configuration then.
/me oogles all the kernel panics I got with linux/ppc for years and all the freezes I got with my x86 box with a VIA mobo, IBM hd, Linux, and DMA :/
This is not the fault of the operating systems.
That argument is not really valid. Every operating system supports virii and trojans. Granted, Windows has far many of them, but when patched/updated/auto-updated, something like WindowsXP should not be more prone to them than Linux. Windows just has way more virii and trojans as way more people use it.
If Linux ever conquers the desktop, you'll see many virii in it too.
> But for those who do run *nix as a desktop OS, there are so many alternative interfaces (how many themes for Enlightenment are there?) that completely blow XP out of the water, I cannot imagine where this deep desire for an XP clone comes from.
Have you thought that some people actually like/are used to Windows/WindowsXP and the Windows/XP look? Hence all the Luna theme knockoffs and Explorer-like file managers, and startmenu/taskbar knockoffs (kde, gnome, icewm, qvwm, just from the top of my head)
Obviously you have never used something like KDE, GNOME, or one of the "windowsized" versions of KDE, such as Lycoris, Lindows, and Xandros.
It's pretty obvious that it's a local maximum in terms of users. This is of course, what the original poster was referring to.
> I want the full Linux experience.
I don't think you understand the fact that there is no *one* true Linux experience.
It could be a number of things, such as:
1. Someone running Virtual Terminals and Screen only - no XWindows
2. Someone running XWindows with a "hardcore" window manager such as ion and ratpoison, or running an old window manager such as twm or mwm.
3. Someone running one of the mid-level window maangers such as wmaker, E, fluxbox, etc..
4. Someone running stock versions of KDE/GNOME.
5. Someone running one of the various "windowzied" KDE versions such as Lindows/Lycoris/Xandros, etc..
6. Someone running xpde.
None of them is the true "full Linux experience", because there is none.
On the other hand, if you really want to learn Linux from the inside out, I think you should take a look at LFS.
Try making him learn to administrate his computer a bit better. There is no reason winXP shouldn't be as stable as something like Linux if adminstrated properly. This is mainly because of Microsoft's improved quality and driver testing facilities since XP.
Sure.. as of October, according to this page, Yahoo searches/google searches/MSN searches were about equal in popularity here in the US. Of course, all three are/were powered by google.
Not really.. Yahoo searches have as many hits here in the US as Google's searches and MSN searches (all three powerered by google).. so, if yahoo's traffic is taken away, theoreatically, one third of google's hits from the US should be taken away. this is, of course, more or less for other countries.
Oops.. I was thinking about UT in my head, but I guess seeing ut2003 in the grandparent post made me subconciously not put it in the list.
Which is obviously why he is reading slashdot: n3ws for n3rds.
I've had absolutely no lockups in X over the past six or so months. The drivers have come a looong way in stablity from the past. I remember about a year and a half ago, I used to get random lockups all the time, even after messing with many things like AGP 4x->2x, sidebanding off, fastwrites off, nvagpagpgart, etc.. But recently, it works fine pretty much out of the box.