>>> It would also be easier on developers, those who want to reach a broad userbase.
Agreed.. People need to install gnome-libs and kdelibs, at least.
Re:Can it compete with KDE?
on
Gnome 2.0 RC1
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· Score: 2
> Now, it may be me, or it may be kde, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to make a window be ignored by ALT-TAB.
It works for me (i'm using sawfish+kde)
> Similarly, I can't figure out how to have frameless windows.
It works for me (i'm using sawfish+kde)
> And... where is the KDE version of red-carpet?! (I know - that's Ximian, not Gnome, but still...)
There will never be a KDE-version of red-carpet. This is because generally, red-carpet is a POS, imho. Get a real installation software from your distro maker. I use Gentoo, and emerge is great. Apt-get is also wonderful for installing such things.
Last I heard, not only were the giFT folks made an open sourced version of fasttrack (used by both kazaa and morpheus), but also, they were developing openFT, which is compeletely independent of kazaa, so if it were to go down, then we could still use it. there'd be no way to block it either, and it works much better (as in more reliably) than gnutella.
note that a few days after kazaa blocked giFT, they were sued by the RIAA. this was because they switched to a partially centralized network from a network that had previously only used central servers for authentication (which giFT had never used).
"... There is no "killer app" available today - even with the GeForce 3 being out for some time now - that will even begin to offer these cards a challenge, and with a GeForce 4 on the way, will NVidia be able to intise buyers into believing they need 300fps at 4800x3600 resolution? In the end, I begin to wonder if NVidia is beginning to find itself in a tough corner. Their hardware is revolutionary, but lacks any practical application."
Sure, I expect that killer app to be Doom 3/Quake 4. Another killer app could be any games based upon Direct 8.x.
Just because a killer application isn't out RIGHT now doesn't mean nVidia should stay put. That's the thinking of "we won't ever need 32 bit addressing" or "you won't ever need more than 640k of ram".
And not only that, but they have ATI right on their tails with the Radeon 8500, and what I expect to be it's speedy sucessors.
> They don't work with the kernel pre-emption patch.
Yes they do! I'm running it myself (2.4.13).
> They are still compiled against xfree86-4.0.2.
I'm not sure wether that's true. In any event, they seem to work with xfree4.1 (or whatever Debian unstable is upto now).
> They are on-again / off-again with -ac patches.
The -ac patches themselves are not known to be very compatable with everything. One reason it's not put into the kernel until it's stable.
> It's fine if you install Redhat (or should I say Linux 7.1) and don't ever upgrade your kernel or X server, but for everyone else (ie real Linux users) there are some fairly sad compatibility problems with the nVidia drivers.
I'm running debian sid, and the xserver/related packages are upgraded every once in a while. I've had no problems. I even replaced my two year old GeForce 1/DDR with a GeForce3, without fiddleing with anything in the drivers (just removing the old card, and putting in the new one).
you probably have bad hardware or have not configured all your bios settings properly..
I've had NO problems with the NVIDIA drivers after having used really bad ATI drivers.
If you want an alternative to the closed src NVIDIA drivers, get a Matrox. They have very high quality drivers (this of course, if you don't do gaming at high res and 32bit).
Not to mention that Quake3 doesn't exactly stress modern generations of Video Cards anymore. Look how many people play q3 with 1600x1200 with their geforce3's at 32bit. I can with quite reasonable fps:)
What's so "unreliable" about nVidia's linux drivers? I've had no problems with them (except that Linux performance isn't as good as winXX performace, but that might be because their windows drivers are regarded as best on the market for performance).
This is compared to my horrendous experience with the ATI Rage 128 and Linux, my last non-nVidia card. Granted, this was a while ago, and the drivers for Radeon might be more relibable. However, ATI's main problem is making poor drivers. It always has.. and judging from the first generation of Radeon 8500 drivers, will continue to be so for a while.
nVidia became so sucessful because of it's short release schedule. They release new products two times a year, every 6 months.
This 6 months, the GeForce 3 Ti200/500 came out. Last 6 months ago, the GeForce 3 came out, etc...
This kind of release schedule is what made 3dfx, an once undisputed leader in 3d technology, lag so far behind. Consequently, it's also what has made Matrox not even really care about the 3d market.
In fact, the Radeon 8500 in most "correct" benchmarks, falls within the speed of the Ti 500 and Ti 200. It is _NOT_ faster than the Ti 500, at least with current drivers. In terms of pricing however, it seems pretty good, as it falls right within the price of the GeForce3 cards.
However, it's currently not the GeForce 3 killer that ATI had made it out to be.
".. A Voodoo5 5500-esque Anti-Aliasing feature. The presumption is that the NV25 will bring a Rotated-Grid AA implementation.."
This is probably to compete with Ati's SmoothVision FSAA implementation, which is really quite slick. However, 3dfx was rumored to have really advanced FSAA implementations for their future Voodoo5 6000/6500 series. Perhaps the NV25 will include that.
too bad 1). it's only for mvsc only
2). no source
3). nothing for it for version 3 of Qt.
so it's not really that viable anymore.
that said, I think Qt is a wonderful toolkit, and I really appreciate the years of work that TrollTech has put into it.
I don't think TrollTech is worried about that happening. I has been said elsewhere by TrollTech that they did not release Qt/X11 under the GPL for a long time because they were worried that someone else would take over Qt's development by outpacing them (although I can't remember where, I think this was said in the interview with TT's president).
All in all, I think that it would have disadvantages and advantages, however, in this case, I think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for TrollTech financially. It'd increase the popularity of Qt a lot.
If TrollTech really didn't want this to happen, they wouldn't have released Qt under the GPL anyways. It'd be completely legal for anyone to do this, if he/she wanted to.
I don't think a GPL'd port of Qt for Windows would be necessarily bad to TrollTech. People who used this port of Qt would have produce Free (as in Speech) Software anyways. Since most companies could not accept this anways, they'd buy the commercial license anyways.
I don't see many Free Software developers rushing out to buy commercial Qt licenses so they can produce Free Software for Windows. So, basically, TrollTech would not be harmed financially, and would probably gain more users (which could mean more Commercial licenses, if some of the Free Software developers wished to make non-Free Software).
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> I'm sorry, but I don't think sawfish is the standard window manger for kde.
Well, you can't do the above things with Metacity either (pretty much the GNOME version of kwin).
Anyways, you can use any _NET_WM compliant window manager with either GNOME or KDE. This is the whole point of freedesktop.org, btw, and more.
> Hence, we run into the same issue as with all OSS. Sorry folks, that doesn't work in the main stream...
I doubt the average user wants to remove the frame from their window anyways.
Gimp isn't a GNOME app, btw. It's gtk-only.
>>> It would also be easier on developers, those who want to reach a broad userbase.
Agreed.. People need to install gnome-libs and kdelibs, at least.
> Now, it may be me, or it may be kde, but for the life of me, I can't figure out how to make a window be ignored by ALT-TAB.
It works for me (i'm using sawfish+kde)
> Similarly, I can't figure out how to have frameless windows.
It works for me (i'm using sawfish+kde)
> And... where is the KDE version of red-carpet?! (I know - that's Ximian, not Gnome, but still...)
There will never be a KDE-version of red-carpet. This is because generally, red-carpet is a POS, imho. Get a real installation software from your distro maker. I use Gentoo, and emerge is great. Apt-get is also wonderful for installing such things.
Requesting and requireing are two different things.
From what I've seen,
1. Crystal Space has not been active for a while
2. Crystal Space's internals are not as cleanly implemented as OGRE's imho.
There are a lot of 3d engines out there, however, both Crystal Space and OGRE are excellent ones.
Last I heard, not only were the giFT folks made an open sourced version of fasttrack (used by both kazaa and morpheus), but also, they were developing openFT, which is compeletely independent of kazaa, so if it were to go down, then we could still use it. there'd be no way to block it either, and it works much better (as in more reliably) than gnutella.
note that a few days after kazaa blocked giFT, they were sued by the RIAA. this was because they switched to a partially centralized network from a network that had previously only used central servers for authentication (which giFT had never used).
That's when I had an ATI card. :-P
"... There is no "killer app" available today - even with the GeForce 3 being out for some time now - that will even begin to offer these cards a challenge, and with a GeForce 4 on the way, will NVidia be able to intise buyers into believing they need 300fps at 4800x3600 resolution? In the end, I begin to wonder if NVidia is beginning to find itself in a tough corner. Their hardware is revolutionary, but lacks any practical application."
Sure, I expect that killer app to be Doom 3/Quake 4. Another killer app could be any games based upon Direct 8.x.
Just because a killer application isn't out RIGHT now doesn't mean nVidia should stay put. That's the thinking of "we won't ever need 32 bit addressing" or "you won't ever need more than 640k of ram".
And not only that, but they have ATI right on their tails with the Radeon 8500, and what I expect to be it's speedy sucessors.
> They don't work with the kernel pre-emption patch.
Yes they do! I'm running it myself (2.4.13).
> They are still compiled against xfree86-4.0.2.
I'm not sure wether that's true. In any event, they seem to work with xfree4.1 (or whatever Debian unstable is upto now).
> They are on-again / off-again with -ac patches.
The -ac patches themselves are not known to be very compatable with everything. One reason it's not put into the kernel until it's stable.
> It's fine if you install Redhat (or should I say Linux 7.1) and don't ever upgrade your kernel or X server, but for everyone else (ie real Linux users) there are some fairly sad compatibility problems with the nVidia drivers.
I'm running debian sid, and the xserver/related packages are upgraded every once in a while. I've had no problems. I even replaced my two year old GeForce 1/DDR with a GeForce3, without fiddleing with anything in the drivers (just removing the old card, and putting in the new one).
you probably have bad hardware or have not configured all your bios settings properly..
I've had NO problems with the NVIDIA drivers after having used really bad ATI drivers.
If you want an alternative to the closed src NVIDIA drivers, get a Matrox. They have very high quality drivers (this of course, if you don't do gaming at high res and 32bit).
Not to mention that Quake3 doesn't exactly stress modern generations of Video Cards anymore. Look how many people play q3 with 1600x1200 with their geforce3's at 32bit. I can with quite reasonable fps :)
> I'd prefer reliable drivers.
What's so "unreliable" about nVidia's linux drivers? I've had no problems with them (except that Linux performance isn't as good as winXX performace, but that might be because their windows drivers are regarded as best on the market for performance).
This is compared to my horrendous experience with the ATI Rage 128 and Linux, my last non-nVidia card. Granted, this was a while ago, and the drivers for Radeon might be more relibable. However, ATI's main problem is making poor drivers. It always has.. and judging from the first generation of Radeon 8500 drivers, will continue to be so for a while.
nVidia became so sucessful because of it's short release schedule. They release new products two times a year, every 6 months.
This 6 months, the GeForce 3 Ti200/500 came out. Last 6 months ago, the GeForce 3 came out, etc...
This kind of release schedule is what made 3dfx, an once undisputed leader in 3d technology, lag so far behind. Consequently, it's also what has made Matrox not even really care about the 3d market.
In fact, the Radeon 8500 in most "correct" benchmarks, falls within the speed of the Ti 500 and Ti 200. It is _NOT_ faster than the Ti 500, at least with current drivers. In terms of pricing however, it seems pretty good, as it falls right within the price of the GeForce3 cards.
However, it's currently not the GeForce 3 killer that ATI had made it out to be.
Yeah, apparently they will:
from the article:
".. A Voodoo5 5500-esque Anti-Aliasing feature. The presumption is that the NV25 will bring a Rotated-Grid AA implementation.."
This is probably to compete with Ati's SmoothVision FSAA implementation, which is really quite slick. However, 3dfx was rumored to have really advanced FSAA implementations for their future Voodoo5 6000/6500 series. Perhaps the NV25 will include that.
The GeForce 3 Ti 200's price is $199 already.
How about qwwm (or something like that?), icewm(with it's winish startbar), and even gnome. all can be fairly argued to be winish.
:)
kde is more os2-ish than win-ish, although win9x had lots of os2-ishness.
too bad 1). it's only for mvsc only
2). no source
3). nothing for it for version 3 of Qt.
so it's not really that viable anymore.
that said, I think Qt is a wonderful toolkit, and I really appreciate the years of work that TrollTech has put into it.
I beleive both are possible in Opera.
Just maximize any sub window, and when you open up a new window, it will "maximize by default" you basically have tabs.
Also, button3, or shift button-1 opens up a new sub window.
Note that this is in windows Opera. I can't imagine it'd be too different in Linux.
Bah, messed up that last post.
It'd called branding. It signifies that a particular program was written by a certain group, in case, the KDE developers.
Microsoft does it too.
Whats the html browser in Microsoft Windows called?
Microsoft Internet Explorer
What's the name of Microsoft's word processing application?
Microsoft Word
What is the name of Microsoft's C++ IDE?
Microsoft Visual C++
It'd called branding. It signifies that a particular program was written by a certain group, in case, the KDE developers.
Microsoft does it too.
Whats the html browser in Microsoft Windows called?
MicrosoftMicrosoft's word processing application?
Microsoft Word
What is the name of Microsoft's C++ IDE?
Microsoft Visual C++
I don't think TrollTech is worried about that happening. I has been said elsewhere by TrollTech that they did not release Qt/X11 under the GPL for a long time because they were worried that someone else would take over Qt's development by outpacing them (although I can't remember where, I think this was said in the interview with TT's president).
All in all, I think that it would have disadvantages and advantages, however, in this case, I think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for TrollTech financially. It'd increase the popularity of Qt a lot.
If TrollTech really didn't want this to happen, they wouldn't have released Qt under the GPL anyways. It'd be completely legal for anyone to do this, if he/she wanted to.
Gah, I talked about "xlib" and "_x11". That's enough to clue most informed users in ;p
I was talking about Qt/X11, which is licensed under the GPL, QPL, and an Commercial License. READ the original post :)
I don't think a GPL'd port of Qt for Windows would be necessarily bad to TrollTech. People who used this port of Qt would have produce Free (as in Speech) Software anyways. Since most companies could not accept this anways, they'd buy the commercial license anyways.
I don't see many Free Software developers rushing out to buy commercial Qt licenses so they can produce Free Software for Windows. So, basically, TrollTech would not be harmed financially, and would probably gain more users (which could mean more Commercial licenses, if some of the Free Software developers wished to make non-Free Software).