"The threads I've seen all point to a rewrite planned for GTK 2.6 but backwards compatibility is a sticking point."
I wonder why they just didn't do it for gtk 2.0, since it broke so much compatability anyways. I've seen threads before gtk 2.0 came out saying that it would have a new file dialog, then threads saying that gtk 2.2 would have a new file dialog, then threads saying gtk 2.4 would have a new file dialog, and now threads saying gtk 2.6 will have a new file dialog.
Oh yeah, there was even discussion before gtk 1.2 about a new file dialog:-)
No... trolltech is _privately_ traded, so they can control who owns their stock. However, ~5.6% is pretty much nothing when their employees own more than 60% of their stock.
> Actually, one of the things I find the most aggravating about Office XP is that the UI color scheme and widgets in Windows XP and Office XP do not match. They're different. Why did they bother?
Yeah.. they matched "their related technology" (the.NET flat style)
I have no idea why they did this.
> It doesn't really crash anymore, but you'd expect more polish out of this thing.
Agreed. However, simple economics come into play. They have a very dominating portion of the Office-suite market share and they won't produce much more market share by fixing some of the more aggravating bugs in Office. Meanwhile, large companies still continue to buy newer and newer versions of Office and upgrade their old versions. (while I know plenty of people using Office97 still, I haven't seen many buisnesses use anything less than Office2k)
> Of course, if I could afford the H/W and S/W, I'd buy an iMac (lamp), in a heartbeat -- and would forget all about the button differences;-)
That's weird how people who've never owned a Mac (presumably this is the case with you), actually want to buy one, presumabily for MacOSX. I own a ibook and I tend to run Linux more than MacOSX on it, because I like Linux+KDE better than MacOSX. On the other hand, I have a deep affection for classic MacOS that comes from years of being a hardcore Mac user.
But I think Linux on a Mac is one of the best solutions, because you can run OSX alongside with Linux with MacOnLinux. It's a very nice app.
Once more Linux applications (like KDE and GNOME apps) are more stable and "perfected" on OSX, I'll have another go and running OSX fulltime.
Microsoft implemented these kitchen sync features in Office in order to defeat its competitiors in market share. Most of these features had already appeared by Office95 when Microsoft really started dominating the Office Suite market.
Since then, there really hasn't been a competitor to Office that offers all of its features or has made any sort of dent in its market share, so Microsoft hasn't really had much of a compulsion to add a whole bunch of new features to its core Office apps (word/excel/PP). If you've not noticed by now, most of Office has been in maintainance mode for a long time. All Microsoft has done since Office97 is make the interface of the new versions of Office match the new versions of Windows and other related technologies.
Yeah, over the last few months, there have been a number of new and clean styles released for KDE that are very nice. Plastik is great, and so is Alloy and ThinKeramik.
I think this might be a backlash to the fact that KDE's default style, Keramik, is sorta "heavy" in the feel department. It'll be a bit lighter in KDE 3.2 though, but should be more imho (like ThinKeramik)
Erm, doesn't MacOS have the same button order as GNOME? Why would former Mac users not be used to that?
But yeah, I think KDE is a better choice for ex-MacOS/Windows users. Being a former MacOS user myself (who is also used to Windows), I can attest to this.
I've never said that about any other interface, considering how I hate CDE:-)
It looks like a cheap clone of win95, just not properly done and with inconsistancies everywhere. I think they should have just used bluecurve or something like that.
I really doubt that a company that current has more than 90% market share, and focuses it's products on 90% of the populace are going to worry about an obscure feature such as regular expressions that only 1% of the populace uses.
(to start out with, the development of the next-generation graphics/userinterface/toolkit stuff doesn't go on in the normal OpenOffice mailing lists, but rather at http://gsl.openoffice.org/)
Currently, OpenOffice's interface is based on two different subsystems: UNO and VCL. UNO (Universal Network Object) is the component model that OpenOffice uses. It is roughly comparable to Microsoft's COM. Unlike popular thinking, UNO is NOT COBRA-based, although it does use a COBRA-like IDL. VCL (Visual Class Library), is how OpenOffice draws it's interface. VCL is cross platform, and is designed to maintain a common look and feel in all the platforms that OOo runs on (mainly, Windows, OSX-X11, and non-OSX-X11..)
Now, the problem is that VCL doesn't interface with native widgets that well. There are some crude hacks to try to integrate OOo slightly better, such as Ximian's OOo, but they arent' as effective as using native widgets. It'll take quite a lot of work to make VCL do this, and won't happen before OOo 2.0. The current plan is to reimplement VCL to make it a very abstract library that eventually calls native functions.
Now, there are several ways that this can be done, and it hasn't been decided by OOo developers which course to take. First, there can be a mapping of controls themselves to native controls. For example, OOo could tell Cocoa/Carbon to "draw a button at 300,100", etc.. Another approach is to map windows and dialogs as a whole with native windows and dialogs. This would be akin to OOo asking an Aqua frontend to "display a print dialog". The final approach is to make VCL a simple UNO interface and make each OOo frontend "do their own thing". This is how existing applications like Abiword. Thus, each OOo frontend could look completely different.
There are several OOo frontends that are planned for OOo 2.0. A Win32 frontend, being the most important platform that OOo runs on, is a foregone conclusion. Also planned for certain is a Java-interface for platforms that don't have a native frontend yet. A native OSX (using Cocoa or Carbon) frontend is also likely to happen. On X11, there has been a strong commitment as of late from OOo developers not to focus on one toolkit, but to support several. A gtk+ frontend is a very certain frontend. It looks like there might be a Qt frontend too. Less likely is a wxWindows frontend.
Now, there have been many people who question why OOo just doesn't use a multi-platform toolkit like wxWindows, gtk, or Qt. The answer is that the OOo developers don't want to focus on any single one. Additionally, there are problems with certain toolkits, such as wxWindows, which lacks a significant amount of accessiblity support.
Because of the terminology he was talking about. He was talking about significant companies. Not significant software. Not significant distros. Not what was significant about package-foo 2929.222 coming out.
Indeed, RedHat and SuSE are the most import Linux companies.
> and it was struck down that they can NOT be held liable for what the end users do, I would think that could be used in court against nonsense like this..
There was no DMCA-type of law for guns, however. Apparently stealing copyright is more important than stealing lives in this country.
A emule clone, which in turn, was a clone of edonkey2000. I don't think the authors of emule or edonkey2k, which are both MUCH more popular than xmule (used mostly by Linux and OSX users), lived in the United States of RIAA, so they seem to be safe for now.
"Our group is made up of many people, Jordanians, Palestinians, Indians, Americans, Russians and Israelis. Some of us are Jewish, some Christians, some Hindus and other of us are Muslim.
Believe it or not, we all love and respect each other.
We all work and play together. Our families on many occasions eat at the same dinner table. We trust each other and are very close friends with each other. As a group, the most important thing in our life is our children, our families and love ones and of course our friends. "
Slashdot Mirror
> Also, I like the ability to see clearly what members are new in each class
Yup, I'd love to see this done in Qt.. it's even marked in the source I beleive (@since 3.1, etc..)
> what members are inherited and/or reimplemented.
I think it already is
> Also, getters and setters are listed together in the Java docs,
agreed.
"The threads I've seen all point to a rewrite planned for GTK 2.6 but backwards compatibility is a sticking point."
:-)
:)
I wonder why they just didn't do it for gtk 2.0, since it broke so much compatability anyways. I've seen threads before gtk 2.0 came out saying that it would have a new file dialog, then threads saying that gtk 2.2 would have a new file dialog, then threads saying gtk 2.4 would have a new file dialog, and now threads saying gtk 2.6 will have a new file dialog.
Oh yeah, there was even discussion before gtk 1.2 about a new file dialog
I won't beleive it until gtk 3.0
> will it ever have a font scheme that allows me to use AA fonts together with non-truetype X11 core fonts?
It has since Qt 3.x already. Qt 2.3 did not support doing this, however. Qt 2.2 and earlier didn't support AA fonts.
> The QT online documentation is not easy to navigate. They should take a lesson from the Java API docs and reorganize the QT docs along those lines.
Wow, I've found the Java API docs extremely hard to navigate.
Perhaps that's because of the bloat (in terms of classes) of the Java API, though.
No... trolltech is _privately_ traded, so they can control who owns their stock. However, ~5.6% is pretty much nothing when their employees own more than 60% of their stock.
> It means that all of the unix examples out there will work out of the box and not have to be translated into csh syntax.
Well, OSX has included bash for a long time, so people could always run their bourne scripts. Now it's just default.
Where in "News for Nerds", do you see "We support free software".
shut the fuck up.
> Actually, one of the things I find the most aggravating about Office XP is that the UI color scheme and widgets in Windows XP and Office XP do not match. They're different. Why did they bother?
.NET flat style)
Yeah.. they matched "their related technology" (the
I have no idea why they did this.
> It doesn't really crash anymore, but you'd expect more polish out of this thing.
Agreed. However, simple economics come into play. They have a very dominating portion of the Office-suite market share and they won't produce much more market share by fixing some of the more aggravating bugs in Office. Meanwhile, large companies still continue to buy newer and newer versions of Office and upgrade their old versions. (while I know plenty of people using Office97 still, I haven't seen many buisnesses use anything less than Office2k)
> Of course, if I could afford the H/W and S/W, I'd buy an iMac (lamp), in a heartbeat -- and would forget all about the button differences ;-)
That's weird how people who've never owned a Mac (presumably this is the case with you), actually want to buy one, presumabily for MacOSX. I own a ibook and I tend to run Linux more than MacOSX on it, because I like Linux+KDE better than MacOSX. On the other hand, I have a deep affection for classic MacOS that comes from years of being a hardcore Mac user.
But I think Linux on a Mac is one of the best solutions, because you can run OSX alongside with Linux with MacOnLinux. It's a very nice app.
Once more Linux applications (like KDE and GNOME apps) are more stable and "perfected" on OSX, I'll have another go and running OSX fulltime.
Microsoft implemented these kitchen sync features in Office in order to defeat its competitiors in market share. Most of these features had already appeared by Office95 when Microsoft really started dominating the Office Suite market.
Since then, there really hasn't been a competitor to Office that offers all of its features or has made any sort of dent in its market share, so Microsoft hasn't really had much of a compulsion to add a whole bunch of new features to its core Office apps (word/excel/PP). If you've not noticed by now, most of Office has been in maintainance mode for a long time. All Microsoft has done since Office97 is make the interface of the new versions of Office match the new versions of Windows and other related technologies.
Yeah, over the last few months, there have been a number of new and clean styles released for KDE that are very nice. Plastik is great, and so is Alloy and ThinKeramik.
I think this might be a backlash to the fact that KDE's default style, Keramik, is sorta "heavy" in the feel department. It'll be a bit lighter in KDE 3.2 though, but should be more imho (like ThinKeramik)
Erm, doesn't MacOS have the same button order as GNOME? Why would former Mac users not be used to that?
But yeah, I think KDE is a better choice for ex-MacOS/Windows users. Being a former MacOS user myself (who is also used to Windows), I can attest to this.
Erm, this runs on Linux, not Solaris.
And Linux has had a port to PPC for years.
And if you want an inexpensive Solaris box, get a x86 box, Solaris has been available for x86 for a number of years.
actually looks like a step back from CDE.
:-)
I've never said that about any other interface, considering how I hate CDE
It looks like a cheap clone of win95, just not properly done and with inconsistancies everywhere. I think they should have just used bluecurve or something like that.
I really doubt that a company that current has more than 90% market share, and focuses it's products on 90% of the populace are going to worry about an obscure feature such as regular expressions that only 1% of the populace uses.
But hey, that's just me.
In recent versions, quartz is used to draw text in XDarwin, and the dock is fully supported. Drag and drop is planned for the future.
(to start out with, the development of the next-generation graphics/userinterface/toolkit stuff doesn't go on in the normal OpenOffice mailing lists, but rather at http://gsl.openoffice.org/)
Currently, OpenOffice's interface is based on two different subsystems: UNO and VCL. UNO (Universal Network Object) is the component model that OpenOffice uses. It is roughly comparable to Microsoft's COM. Unlike popular thinking, UNO is NOT COBRA-based, although it does use a COBRA-like IDL. VCL (Visual Class Library), is how OpenOffice draws it's interface. VCL is cross platform, and is designed to maintain a common look and feel in all the platforms that OOo runs on (mainly, Windows, OSX-X11, and non-OSX-X11..)
Now, the problem is that VCL doesn't interface with native widgets that well. There are some crude hacks to try to integrate OOo slightly better, such as Ximian's OOo, but they arent' as effective as using native widgets. It'll take quite a lot of work to make VCL do this, and won't happen before OOo 2.0. The current plan is to reimplement VCL to make it a very abstract library that eventually calls native functions.
Now, there are several ways that this can be done, and it hasn't been decided by OOo developers which course to take. First, there can be a mapping of controls themselves to native controls. For example, OOo could tell Cocoa/Carbon to "draw a button at 300,100", etc.. Another approach is to map windows and dialogs as a whole with native windows and dialogs. This would be akin to OOo asking an Aqua frontend to "display a print dialog". The final approach is to make VCL a simple UNO interface and make each OOo frontend "do their own thing". This is how existing applications like Abiword. Thus, each OOo frontend could look completely different.
There are several OOo frontends that are planned for OOo 2.0. A Win32 frontend, being the most important platform that OOo runs on, is a foregone conclusion. Also planned for certain is a Java-interface for platforms that don't have a native frontend yet. A native OSX (using Cocoa or Carbon) frontend is also likely to happen. On X11, there has been a strong commitment as of late from OOo developers not to focus on one toolkit, but to support several. A gtk+ frontend is a very certain frontend. It looks like there might be a Qt frontend too. Less likely is a wxWindows frontend.
Now, there have been many people who question why OOo just doesn't use a multi-platform toolkit like wxWindows, gtk, or Qt. The answer is that the OOo developers don't want to focus on any single one. Additionally, there are problems with certain toolkits, such as wxWindows, which lacks a significant amount of accessiblity support.
No, it's not a X11 "emulator" for MacOSX. It's really quite native, even using Quartz to draw text in recent versions.
Because of the terminology he was talking about. He was talking about significant companies. Not significant software. Not significant distros. Not what was significant about package-foo 2929.222 coming out.
Indeed, RedHat and SuSE are the most import Linux companies.
> and it was struck down that they can NOT be held liable for what the end users do, I would think that could be used in court against nonsense like this..
There was no DMCA-type of law for guns, however. Apparently stealing copyright is more important than stealing lives in this country.
A emule clone, which in turn, was a clone of edonkey2000. I don't think the authors of emule or edonkey2k, which are both MUCH more popular than xmule (used mostly by Linux and OSX users), lived in the United States of RIAA, so they seem to be safe for now.
I think the Palestinian government just has a tad bit more to worry about than to shut down file sharing companies over the internet.
Of course, given proper threats, bribes, etc.. to the right people..
Their company page (http://www.es5.com/company.html) says:
"Our group is made up of many people, Jordanians, Palestinians, Indians, Americans, Russians and Israelis. Some of us are Jewish, some Christians, some Hindus and other of us are Muslim.
Believe it or not, we all love and respect each other.
We all work and play together. Our families on many occasions eat at the same dinner table. We trust each other and are very close friends with each other. As a group, the most important thing in our life is our children, our families and love ones and of course our friends. "
Even better would be a switch to SCons..