"hey see writing programs as assembly. It isn't assembly. It's design. You can't automate design."
that's an awesome quote. put another way, management is taking ideas that apply to manufacturing and trying to use them for engineering. it doesn't work.
the problem with paper trails, is that while there is a possibility for recount, it is difficult and expensive to call for one. Meanwhile the automated part is still a black box that can be hacked. this is not the case with pure paper ballots.
fyi - hand counting has been shown to be efficient and fast in other countries. break down the counts to small groups and tally the results. simple. if a machine counts, you need to first show that there could be an error before a count can happen. often by this time volunteers have left and the candidate has conceded. why not just do it in the open to begin with?
all machines and software can be hacked. hand counting is of course prone to error, but is much more resistant to wholesale fraud.
just about everyone I know that values their money keeps their own books to double check against what the Bank's computers tell them. Should I recommend they stop this practice because the bank's mainframes count better? Your argument is a straw man.
The point of paper ballots is not that humans can count better, it is that the process of their counting is completely transparent, well understood and repeatable. even open source systems like linux can be hacked if not implemented correctly. why not take a system that is known to work, cost effective and fast? newer is not better when dealing with the primary function of a democracy.
"checksums 'and other mechanisms'" can all be defeated, and moreover require computer experts to understand and verify.
paper ballots can be counted and understood by ordinary citizens with no technical expertise. paper ballots in other contries have been shown to be fast and cost effective when implemented correctly, as opposed to computer systems here that often cause budgets to run high and poor volunteers to become frustrated with tools they don't understand (why should they? this is democracy not an it department).
open source is not the answer. computers should not be relied upon to implement democracy.
open source is not the answer here. open source only gives you transparency as far as what the author wrote, not what is actually running on the machine.
paper ballots are what are needed. simply to use, proven methodology. count in the open, or under video tape, and only send in the results.
I think what the original poster meant was that you can't include GPL code in say, a bsd project. But you can do vice versa, because the bsd/mit licenses tend to be much more 'free'/liberal than the GPL. It was a good point imho.
Pleas join an existing, legitimate effort at http://verifiedvoting.org -
This site, rather than continually despairing at the fact that there are problems with electronic voting, has concrete steps that average citizens can take to make change.
Pleas join an existing, legitimate effort at http://verifiedvoting.org -
This site, rather than coninually dispairing at the fact that there are problems with electronic voting, has concrete steps that average citizens can take to make change.
please mod parent up - I posted a story about this site but was rejected.
Slashdoters need to do more than throw up your hands in dispair - time to take action. This site seems to be the focal point for electronic voting issues.
me too! especially since, Inferno OS, also a register based vm seems to be quite a lean and elegant appraoch. if parrot can pick up some of their threading system, then I think it will be a real winner. certainly the thought given to inter-language interropability is quite interesting.
yes it may take a bit to mature, but so what, the direction I think is good, not a copy of ms tech.
> They are not for the heavy gamers. They are not for video encoders.
seriously - the above was describing a heavy duty workstation, not a general purpose pc. for that, take out the lawn mower. i am seriously considering via platform for my next pc, the noise factor on my home built athlon is a big minus.
great point - I wish X apologists could answer that simple question. Without a doubt, everything since windows nt 4.0 has had a great desktop response even on low end hardware. You can feel the difference right away, less flickering on scrolling, smoother window movement and general clean and responsive gui. Clearly, there is something wrong with X to the extent that it doesn't perform as well. Perhaps most people have the reason wrong, and the the network transparency isn't it, but to sweep the problem under the rug as a 'configuration problem' is just pure bs. Linux is a great os, but lets get real about what it is and isn't that great at yet.
does no one recognize the feat that slashdot accomplished this year by not jumping the gun and announcing the pre-release as many other sites did (linuxtoday). they waited nicely until the official announcement on the slackware site, thereby letting mirrors propagate, instead of pouncing on the changelogs.
does no one remember what happened last time around when michael posted early? good times.... (and then was rude about it to top it off...)
Are there internet resources where employees can get legal advice? This type of contract law question seems to come up frequently. I suppose you could consult a laywer and fork out $100 or more, but are there other options?
totally agree - every time there is a stupid quiet pc or case moding story on slashdot I post to mini-itx.com. don't really know why people arent' more pysched, this is the board everyone claims they've been wanting - cheap, quiet, low power, mid range performance. perfect for web and multimedia.
Slashdot Mirror
totally agree...
"hey see writing programs as assembly. It isn't assembly. It's design. You can't automate design."
that's an awesome quote. put another way, management is taking ideas that apply to manufacturing and trying to use them for engineering. it doesn't work.
the problem with paper trails, is that while there is a possibility for recount, it is difficult and expensive to call for one. Meanwhile the automated part is still a black box that can be hacked. this is not the case with pure paper ballots.
fyi - hand counting has been shown to be efficient and fast in other countries. break down the counts to small groups and tally the results. simple. if a machine counts, you need to first show that there could be an error before a count can happen. often by this time volunteers have left and the candidate has conceded. why not just do it in the open to begin with?
all machines and software can be hacked. hand counting is of course prone to error, but is much more resistant to wholesale fraud.
just about everyone I know that values their money keeps their own books to double check against what the Bank's computers tell them. Should I recommend they stop this practice because the bank's mainframes count better? Your argument is a straw man.
The point of paper ballots is not that humans can count better, it is that the process of their counting is completely transparent, well understood and repeatable. even open source systems like linux can be hacked if not implemented correctly. why not take a system that is known to work, cost effective and fast? newer is not better when dealing with the primary function of a democracy.
"checksums 'and other mechanisms'" can all be defeated, and moreover require computer experts to understand and verify.
paper ballots can be counted and understood by ordinary citizens with no technical expertise. paper ballots in other contries have been shown to be fast and cost effective when implemented correctly, as opposed to computer systems here that often cause budgets to run high and poor volunteers to become frustrated with tools they don't understand (why should they? this is democracy not an it department).
open source is not the answer. computers should not be relied upon to implement democracy.
open source is not the answer here. open source only gives you transparency as far as what the author wrote, not what is actually running on the machine.
paper ballots are what are needed. simply to use, proven methodology. count in the open, or under video tape, and only send in the results.
I think what the original poster meant was that you can't include GPL code in say, a bsd project. But you can do vice versa, because the bsd/mit licenses tend to be much more 'free'/liberal than the GPL. It was a good point imho.
thanks for the additional info - I don't know why slashdot editors don't post this stuff on the front page
Pleas join an existing, legitimate effort at http://verifiedvoting.org -
This site, rather than continually despairing at the fact that there are problems with electronic voting, has concrete steps that average citizens can take to make change.
Pleas join an existing, legitimate effort at http://verifiedvoting.org -
This site, rather than coninually dispairing at the fact that there are problems with electronic voting, has concrete steps that average citizens can take to make change.
please mod parent up - I posted a story about this site but was rejected.
Slashdoters need to do more than throw up your hands in dispair - time to take action. This site seems to be the focal point for electronic voting issues.
Didn't they dump Slackware? Are they going to fund it again?
possible dune reference? readers of the series will remember that Muah'Dib gets blinded but can still function because of his vision into the future.
Hey - Go to
http://www.verifiedvoting.org/
And DO something about this!!!
me too! especially since, Inferno OS, also a register based vm seems to be quite a lean and elegant appraoch. if parrot can pick up some of their threading system, then I think it will be a real winner. certainly the thought given to inter-language interropability is quite interesting.
yes it may take a bit to mature, but so what, the direction I think is good, not a copy of ms tech.
> They are not for the heavy gamers. They are not for video encoders.
seriously - the above was describing a heavy duty workstation, not a general purpose pc. for that, take out the lawn mower. i am seriously considering via platform for my next pc, the noise factor on my home built athlon is a big minus.
great point - I wish X apologists could answer that simple question. Without a doubt, everything since windows nt 4.0 has had a great desktop response even on low end hardware. You can feel the difference right away, less flickering on scrolling, smoother window movement and general clean and responsive gui. Clearly, there is something wrong with X to the extent that it doesn't perform as well. Perhaps most people have the reason wrong, and the the network transparency isn't it, but to sweep the problem under the rug as a 'configuration problem' is just pure bs. Linux is a great os, but lets get real about what it is and isn't that great at yet.
does no one recognize the feat that slashdot accomplished this year by not jumping the gun and announcing the pre-release as many other sites did (linuxtoday). they waited nicely until the official announcement on the slackware site, thereby letting mirrors propagate, instead of pouncing on the changelogs.
does no one remember what happened last time around when michael posted early? good times.... (and then was rude about it to top it off...)
Are there internet resources where employees can get legal advice? This type of contract law question seems to come up frequently. I suppose you could consult a laywer and fork out $100 or more, but are there other options?
Go to mini-itx.com if you want a silent router/media computer. That _includes_ power supply - no fans at all.
If you want a powerful computer, that is a different story, but there are better solutions to the heat/noise problem that putting holes in your wall.
totally agree - every time there is a stupid quiet pc or case moding story on slashdot I post to mini-itx.com. don't really know why people arent' more pysched, this is the board everyone claims they've been wanting - cheap, quiet, low power, mid range performance. perfect for web and multimedia.
or you could just use via's mini-itx multimedia platform for around $100 (board, cpu, network, sound & video).
mini-itx.com
> I've come to the conclusion /. loves Microsoft
I second that
gee, good ol' slashdot taking potshots at linux now? this in addition to giving more press to ms then any supposed 'nerd' site I can think of?
this is bullshit folks.