With "Marketing" in your nickname, it cancels out and then some. Any whiff or hint of marketdroidness, and even a single digit UID would be worthless. Just ask SalesWeasel(871) with his triple digit UID. Betcha he wished he'd used something more cool...
You laugh, but the truth is I really wish they would write the drivers for PCI token ring cards. What is the point of some ultra-modern super-powerful unix, if you can't have legacy networking?
That, and they need to market a PCI localtalk card. It is a mac after all...
I love my Tandy machines, but I'm just not sure I can put it in that category. I'll have to think about it.
The c64 luggable I'm familiar with, and I agree it shouldn't count. If you do that, then all the fugly "lunchbox" computers count too, something I can't reconcile with what we expect of a laptop. As for me mentioning the Amiga, I was just running through the list of platforms. Of the 4 platforms ever marketed to consumers in a real way, I find it strange that the Amiga (distant 3rd) didn't do a laptop, but Atari (even more distant 4th) did. Interesting to find out that there were so many laptop versions of workstation class computers. That AIX link kicks ass, btw.
After 2 years of searching, I found the MacIP server software... it only compiles under BSD. Never have been able to make it work. Even so, I've only had mized success with the isa localtalk card.
Now, you might appreciate this, so I'll mention it. One of my projects, is to create a localtalk network so strange, it will curdle milk and make babies cry. So far, here is what I believe could be hooked into it.
x86 PC (already done, isa ltalk card) Macs (duh, already done) Amiga (zorro2 doubletalk card, trying to find it) SGI (Indy's serial ports are compatible at the hw level) NeXTstation (serial ports seem compatible, dunno if software was ever written) Apple II (both the GS and E have the hardware) Lisa (I've heard hints, but never read anything conclusive) Atari Falcon (ST series, had a mini8 "lan" port, that is compatible at the hw level) Newton (already done) RS/6000 (the old microchannel POWER based machines... could they use a microchannel ltalk card?)
Of course, I still need to build a complete HIPPI, starlan and econet segment, before I can claim masterpiece status.
I really need to get off my ass, and work on a PCI ltalk card. plx9052, a zilog scc... which brings us all back to the VHDL that I suck at.
Everything you say is reasonable enough. But there are some slight problems, all the same.
The police will respond, when corps complain that you sent MP3s, or use some copyright or trademark of theirs. Or at least they will, when the judges asks them to enforce a court order.
As for hoping that you're network presence will be mundane/boring enough, that no one will care... good luck. The PCI list website was attacked... and all that guy did was host a list of vendor/card IDs, to make writing open source device drivers easy. What about when some halfass CEO decides that your domain name is trademark infringement, even when you were using it long before they ever started using theirs?
Wifi is really only local. When they do find out, you're within a few miles of their narc. It sounds dumb, but police are good at their job. Something these asshat hackers never realize... investigation is something they excel at. Even if its just canvasing the area, looking for someone that fits a profile. But even if you can protect it from legal attacks, and law enforcement attacks... you and a few hundred of your neighbors are a poor substitute for a truly global network with thousands, tens of thousands of users.
x86 and Macs. I don't consider the model 100 a true laptop/notebook, just a portable. Besides, unless there were a desktop version (and it wasn't exactly backward compatible with the other tandy machines)... AIX laptop? Hmm, mind finding a url for me? I've already had to revise the list, some people turned up a few even I hadn't heard of.
#3 for me would be the sparcbooks, of course. #4 would be the Atari ST machines.
Now, since I've been made for the fool, here are the ones I didn't know.
#5 HP-UX/PArisc laptop. Seems to be legit, and available. There are of course workstation machines for this platform, and it meets all the modern laptop requirements that most would have.
#6 Acorn's RISCos, arm laptop (A4 ?). Screen looks kinda dinky, maybe even black and white, but the shape, usage, everything is there. Looks comparable with the early mac/x86 laptops at a glance.
C= never did make an amiga laptop, and homebrew doesn't count. Nor were there Alphabooks that I'm aware of (though there should have been). Did SGI ever bother to do a mips machine? Remember, the thing has to be battery powered, integrated display, and use the same OS/software as a desktop version of that platform. Are there any others?
PS Palmtop form factors don't count, even if they are now using those OSs in devices vaguely desktop-like.
Meta's advantage is that it's a generic tcp/ip network. 10,000+ applications/services already run on that. Meta+freenet is even stronger...
If they start proxying off the net completely, I don't know what could be done. Wifi is completely local, and easy prey for law enforcement... especially in an enviroment which has condoned ISPs blocking everything except email and their web proxies. If that were to happen, we'd have to delve into science fiction for answers... I doubt someone will invent a quantum entanglement transciver in their basement, though.
Seems like we might manage to tunnel traffic over HTTP, if they weren't truly proxying/caching the web content.
uIP was easy enough to get running on the 6502. The tough part is slip/ppp. The appleIIe is only doing localtalk, which still counts. Hell, it's even switched localtalk... Synoptics Lattistalk.
The appleIIe's corvus omninet card is unused, only have a second card for my TRS-80 Model II, and no concentrator (if it even used one). Would love to get my hands on the ISA omninet card, though it hasn't shown up on ebay.
The SGI Indy is on ethernet and 155mps ATM (only other machine on ATM besides my server). Trying to get its rs422 to do localtalk also... may not be possible.
The two sparcstations are on ethernet and token ring, and ethernet and HIPPI.
Point taken. It won't be me though, I can't even get this damn XC9572 to do what I want, and I'm only trying to do address decoding for a custom Z80 board.
I have 40 or so OS's on my network at home. Arcnet, token ring, ethernet, localtalk, omninet, ATM, FDDI... 68k machines (macs, amigas, atari's, NeXT, cisco routers, trs-80 model 6000), a few vaxen, an ARM 610 (apple newton), sparcstations, apple2's. A PDP-11/04. A Intergraph InterPRO 6000 clipper cpu machine (c300). PPC machines (macs, tivo, rs6000). A POWER cpu rs6000. An SGI Indy and DECstation round out the MIPS cpu machines. The 65xx and 68xx are too numerous to list. A few z80 machines. I even have the TMS9900 cpu, in the form or a ti994a. Sadly, only one Alpha Multia, and no OSF to load on it. Still looking for a PArisc. But I know practically nothing.
Excluding isa, pci and agp, how many expansion busses could you name, or would recognize on sight? How many OS's have you used? Tell me, how many platforms were ever made into a laptop/notebook form factor? Better yet, I'll answer that, 4. Name them. I mean, big AC, bring it on... I'm sure you're so much more knowledgeable than I...
Even so, if we ever need a name for a new month, I nominate "Hexidecember". It has a nice ring to it, and my trademark registration has already been filed.
It will "suck more"? In that it can't run your beloved Windows XP? You act as if this is even comparable to an Athlon, nothing done even as a college level compsci project with a $500 FPGA could hope to outperform such. It isn't the point at all. As for "worth the trouble", you seem to imply that any learning or hobby not pursued because it's obvious that it will be rewarded in the next 10 seconds is unjustifiable.
Me, I'd love to design my own little CPU, if I could even figure out how to manage even the simplest VHDL code. $100 books that have to be ordered, and nothing on the web kind of puts the damper on that. What's your excuse? You don't care how the magic video game box works?
Besides, in this day and age, anything this clueful deserves a brownie point or two. If you think otherwise, try working around all the A+ certified ijits (that I call coworkers) for 8 hours.
I love my Amigas even more than the IIc. Currently, I'm using arcnet cards for the amigas, but with that bridgeboard you should be able to use a cheap 8bit isa ethernet card (not as good as a proper ZorroII nic, but $1 instead of $100).
A real geek would also have an Atari ST, however.;)
My Apple IIe though, is getting more decked out every day. Trying to get the localtalk card in it working right, and I soon hope to have an omninet network to plug it into. Even making an effort to really learn VHDL, so I can finally design the glue logic for an ethernet card (cs8900 based). That, and the super serial card with uIP and some custom apple2 slip software....
Still, from time to time I'll dig up an old magazine that claims there was arcnet for the apple II, or even more bizarre, token ring (at 4mps). Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Like this matters one bit. Modern media is designed in such a way that it will rot, disintegrate, or otherwise degrade long before 50 years has passed. Guess who has the only master copy?
And if you archive it beforehand, you are technically violating one IP law or another.
Whether $300K or $1, this is a stupid idea. It isn't an obstacle at all for those who abuse IP/copywrite law, and is only a hassle for those that don't. The only lapses of copyright will be some guy's highschool term paper, that he never made any money on... coporations are more than willing to devote an entire office, or even department to maintaining their IP monopoly for eternity.
DirecTV doesn't buy my super-widgets, and I'm not getting paid for it. This causes a loss of profits on my part. I want to blame someone else, and that someone else is them. Can I sue, and do I deserve a big judgement?
DirecTV's problems stem from a bullshit business model. They need to kill the subscription thing, and sell access cards. Figure out how much to sell them for, so they make a profit, and be done with it. They are the only people who can realistically make these (even emulation requires a real card), and piracy would drop to zero, immediately. However, even though this is a non-bullshit business model that could potentially bring in modest profits, that's not nearly as lucrative as a bullshit model.
It's like trying to sell me air, when it's all around me on my property, and then getting pissed that I'm "stealing it" from you. The signal is there. I'll use it, whether or not I feel like paying them. But if they sold the hardware.... I suppose I could make it myself, but it would cost even more than what they sell it for.
What is happening, is that they'd rather let the goverment pay for enforcement, since they won't foot that bill, and recieve increased revenue. It's indirect, but basically they're stealing from the american people this way... the court system wouldn't get clogged up with this shit, the police wouldn't be wasting time arresting dealers. But they'd get less cash.
More importantly, people's fingers are circumvention devices, as are their brains. Both are used to post this hideous, illegal content. We can fix those problems with bonesaws though...
I'm glad you brought up the point about breathing public air. This is indeed a major problem, one for which I'm sure you will agree that I have discovered a most ingenious and perfect solution.
Much like the airwaves, which also technically belong to the entire populous, the atmosphere is a precious resource we could ill afford to do without. However, it is being wasted and abused on a scale that isn't even possible to measure. Second-hand smoke, industrial polution, farting, and air larceny are rife in our modern world. Perhaps in the past, the most efficient model of oxygen distribution was indeed, a "first come, first serve" style where everyone was responsible for breathing their own air, and that was it. But today, we need something more.
On that note, I'd like to state the incredible number of benefits that would result from privatizing the atmosphere, just as we have done with the airwaves. Following much the policy as that for the rf spectrum, we would allow major corporations and others to license out portions of the atmosphere for substantial fees... fees large enough to make a significant budgetary impact. Who could turn up their nose at that, in these days of economic uncertainty? Think tens of billions of dollars, folks. Money that can be spent propping up our important federal pork barrel projects, like the $230 million dollar Georgia State Museum of Peanut Technology. But back to my main point... these licensees of the atmosphere would then have a stake in our precious air supply, and as a result of that would manage if carefully, something our corporations have honed to a veritable science. Likely they would design some sort of air tax, so that we only payed for what we used. Smokers and the flatulent would be forced to reimburse society for the air that they waste. No longer would freeloaders run around hyperventilating just to take more than their fair share... or if they did, they'd certainly be paying when the monthly air bill came in the mail.
We would be creating thousands of jobs too, air auditors and assessors, management and enforcement positions. The possibilities are endless, an entire sector of industry being born out of a single, ahead-of-its-time concept. It could possibly kickstart us out of this economic funk we've been suffering through.
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With "Marketing" in your nickname, it cancels out and then some. Any whiff or hint of marketdroidness, and even a single digit UID would be worthless. Just ask SalesWeasel(871) with his triple digit UID. Betcha he wished he'd used something more cool...
You laugh, but the truth is I really wish they would write the drivers for PCI token ring cards. What is the point of some ultra-modern super-powerful unix, if you can't have legacy networking?
That, and they need to market a PCI localtalk card. It is a mac after all...
As a matter of fact, yes. The SPALP-1.
www.spalp.org/tutorials/italpaga
Mostly to keep things simple for a assembly language book for kids. It's 4bit, has 16 instructions, and can address 256 nybbles of ram.
AIX/PPC makes #7 then.
I love my Tandy machines, but I'm just not sure I can put it in that category. I'll have to think about it.
The c64 luggable I'm familiar with, and I agree it shouldn't count. If you do that, then all the fugly "lunchbox" computers count too, something I can't reconcile with what we expect of a laptop. As for me mentioning the Amiga, I was just running through the list of platforms. Of the 4 platforms ever marketed to consumers in a real way, I find it strange that the Amiga (distant 3rd) didn't do a laptop, but Atari (even more distant 4th) did. Interesting to find out that there were so many laptop versions of workstation class computers. That AIX link kicks ass, btw.
After 2 years of searching, I found the MacIP server software... it only compiles under BSD. Never have been able to make it work. Even so, I've only had mized success with the isa localtalk card.
Now, you might appreciate this, so I'll mention it. One of my projects, is to create a localtalk network so strange, it will curdle milk and make babies cry. So far, here is what I believe could be hooked into it.
x86 PC (already done, isa ltalk card)
Macs (duh, already done)
Amiga (zorro2 doubletalk card, trying to find it)
SGI (Indy's serial ports are compatible at the hw level)
NeXTstation (serial ports seem compatible, dunno if software was ever written)
Apple II (both the GS and E have the hardware)
Lisa (I've heard hints, but never read anything conclusive)
Atari Falcon (ST series, had a mini8 "lan" port, that is compatible at the hw level)
Newton (already done)
RS/6000 (the old microchannel POWER based machines... could they use a microchannel ltalk card?)
Of course, I still need to build a complete HIPPI, starlan and econet segment, before I can claim masterpiece status.
I really need to get off my ass, and work on a PCI ltalk card. plx9052, a zilog scc... which brings us all back to the VHDL that I suck at.
Everything you say is reasonable enough. But there are some slight problems, all the same.
The police will respond, when corps complain that you sent MP3s, or use some copyright or trademark of theirs. Or at least they will, when the judges asks them to enforce a court order.
As for hoping that you're network presence will be mundane/boring enough, that no one will care... good luck. The PCI list website was attacked... and all that guy did was host a list of vendor/card IDs, to make writing open source device drivers easy. What about when some halfass CEO decides that your domain name is trademark infringement, even when you were using it long before they ever started using theirs?
Wifi is really only local. When they do find out, you're within a few miles of their narc. It sounds dumb, but police are good at their job. Something these asshat hackers never realize... investigation is something they excel at. Even if its just canvasing the area, looking for someone that fits a profile. But even if you can protect it from legal attacks, and law enforcement attacks... you and a few hundred of your neighbors are a poor substitute for a truly global network with thousands, tens of thousands of users.
x86 and Macs. I don't consider the model 100 a true laptop/notebook, just a portable. Besides, unless there were a desktop version (and it wasn't exactly backward compatible with the other tandy machines)... AIX laptop? Hmm, mind finding a url for me? I've already had to revise the list, some people turned up a few even I hadn't heard of.
#3 for me would be the sparcbooks, of course.
#4 would be the Atari ST machines.
Now, since I've been made for the fool, here are the ones I didn't know.
#5 HP-UX/PArisc laptop. Seems to be legit, and available. There are of course workstation machines for this platform, and it meets all the modern laptop requirements that most would have.
#6 Acorn's RISCos, arm laptop (A4 ?). Screen looks kinda dinky, maybe even black and white, but the shape, usage, everything is there. Looks comparable with the early mac/x86 laptops at a glance.
C= never did make an amiga laptop, and homebrew doesn't count. Nor were there Alphabooks that I'm aware of (though there should have been). Did SGI ever bother to do a mips machine? Remember, the thing has to be battery powered, integrated display, and use the same OS/software as a desktop version of that platform. Are there any others?
PS Palmtop form factors don't count, even if they are now using those OSs in devices vaguely desktop-like.
I'd appreciate that very much.
Meta's advantage is that it's a generic tcp/ip network. 10,000+ applications/services already run on that. Meta+freenet is even stronger...
If they start proxying off the net completely, I don't know what could be done. Wifi is completely local, and easy prey for law enforcement... especially in an enviroment which has condoned ISPs blocking everything except email and their web proxies. If that were to happen, we'd have to delve into science fiction for answers... I doubt someone will invent a quantum entanglement transciver in their basement, though.
Seems like we might manage to tunnel traffic over HTTP, if they weren't truly proxying/caching the web content.
uIP was easy enough to get running on the 6502. The tough part is slip/ppp. The appleIIe is only doing localtalk, which still counts. Hell, it's even switched localtalk... Synoptics Lattistalk.
The appleIIe's corvus omninet card is unused, only have a second card for my TRS-80 Model II, and no concentrator (if it even used one). Would love to get my hands on the ISA omninet card, though it hasn't shown up on ebay.
The SGI Indy is on ethernet and 155mps ATM (only other machine on ATM besides my server). Trying to get its rs422 to do localtalk also... may not be possible.
The two sparcstations are on ethernet and token ring, and ethernet and HIPPI.
Not all are powered up simultaneously.
Or, you could sell it on ebay for $500. Save the mindless destruction for piece of shit x86/windows machines.
Point taken. It won't be me though, I can't even get this damn XC9572 to do what I want, and I'm only trying to do address decoding for a custom Z80 board.
Oh my god. A flamewar from the mid 80s has just been ressurected! ;)
Moderators, don't mod parent as troll/flamebait, you don't understand the joke.
I have 40 or so OS's on my network at home. Arcnet, token ring, ethernet, localtalk, omninet, ATM, FDDI... 68k machines (macs, amigas, atari's, NeXT, cisco routers, trs-80 model 6000), a few vaxen, an ARM 610 (apple newton), sparcstations, apple2's. A PDP-11/04. A Intergraph InterPRO 6000 clipper cpu machine (c300). PPC machines (macs, tivo, rs6000). A POWER cpu rs6000. An SGI Indy and DECstation round out the MIPS cpu machines. The 65xx and 68xx are too numerous to list. A few z80 machines. I even have the TMS9900 cpu, in the form or a ti994a. Sadly, only one Alpha Multia, and no OSF to load on it. Still looking for a PArisc. But I know practically nothing.
Excluding isa, pci and agp, how many expansion busses could you name, or would recognize on sight? How many OS's have you used? Tell me, how many platforms were ever made into a laptop/notebook form factor? Better yet, I'll answer that, 4. Name them. I mean, big AC, bring it on... I'm sure you're so much more knowledgeable than I...
Even so, if we ever need a name for a new month, I nominate "Hexidecember". It has a nice ring to it, and my trademark registration has already been filed.
It will "suck more"? In that it can't run your beloved Windows XP? You act as if this is even comparable to an Athlon, nothing done even as a college level compsci project with a $500 FPGA could hope to outperform such. It isn't the point at all. As for "worth the trouble", you seem to imply that any learning or hobby not pursued because it's obvious that it will be rewarded in the next 10 seconds is unjustifiable.
Me, I'd love to design my own little CPU, if I could even figure out how to manage even the simplest VHDL code. $100 books that have to be ordered, and nothing on the web kind of puts the damper on that. What's your excuse? You don't care how the magic video game box works?
The tenth day of the month of Hexidecember? Is that some EU thing?
Never heard of an FPGA?
Besides, in this day and age, anything this clueful deserves a brownie point or two. If you think otherwise, try working around all the A+ certified ijits (that I call coworkers) for 8 hours.
Yeh, the x86 has at least 1 more general purpose register.
I love my Amigas even more than the IIc. Currently, I'm using arcnet cards for the amigas, but with that bridgeboard you should be able to use a cheap 8bit isa ethernet card (not as good as a proper ZorroII nic, but $1 instead of $100).
;)
A real geek would also have an Atari ST, however.
My Apple IIe though, is getting more decked out every day. Trying to get the localtalk card in it working right, and I soon hope to have an omninet network to plug it into. Even making an effort to really learn VHDL, so I can finally design the glue logic for an ethernet card (cs8900 based). That, and the super serial card with uIP and some custom apple2 slip software....
Still, from time to time I'll dig up an old magazine that claims there was arcnet for the apple II, or even more bizarre, token ring (at 4mps). Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Like this matters one bit. Modern media is designed in such a way that it will rot, disintegrate, or otherwise degrade long before 50 years has passed. Guess who has the only master copy?
And if you archive it beforehand, you are technically violating one IP law or another.
Whether $300K or $1, this is a stupid idea. It isn't an obstacle at all for those who abuse IP/copywrite law, and is only a hassle for those that don't. The only lapses of copyright will be some guy's highschool term paper, that he never made any money on... coporations are more than willing to devote an entire office, or even department to maintaining their IP monopoly for eternity.
Heh. I was saw 900 sailors riding her simultaneously.
DirecTV doesn't buy my super-widgets, and I'm not getting paid for it. This causes a loss of profits on my part. I want to blame someone else, and that someone else is them. Can I sue, and do I deserve a big judgement?
DirecTV's problems stem from a bullshit business model. They need to kill the subscription thing, and sell access cards. Figure out how much to sell them for, so they make a profit, and be done with it. They are the only people who can realistically make these (even emulation requires a real card), and piracy would drop to zero, immediately. However, even though this is a non-bullshit business model that could potentially bring in modest profits, that's not nearly as lucrative as a bullshit model.
It's like trying to sell me air, when it's all around me on my property, and then getting pissed that I'm "stealing it" from you. The signal is there. I'll use it, whether or not I feel like paying them. But if they sold the hardware.... I suppose I could make it myself, but it would cost even more than what they sell it for.
What is happening, is that they'd rather let the goverment pay for enforcement, since they won't foot that bill, and recieve increased revenue. It's indirect, but basically they're stealing from the american people this way... the court system wouldn't get clogged up with this shit, the police wouldn't be wasting time arresting dealers. But they'd get less cash.
More importantly, people's fingers are circumvention devices, as are their brains. Both are used to post this hideous, illegal content. We can fix those problems with bonesaws though...
I'm glad you brought up the point about breathing public air. This is indeed a major problem, one for which I'm sure you will agree that I have discovered a most ingenious and perfect solution.
Much like the airwaves, which also technically belong to the entire populous, the atmosphere is a precious resource we could ill afford to do without. However, it is being wasted and abused on a scale that isn't even possible to measure. Second-hand smoke, industrial polution, farting, and air larceny are rife in our modern world. Perhaps in the past, the most efficient model of oxygen distribution was indeed, a "first come, first serve" style where everyone was responsible for breathing their own air, and that was it. But today, we need something more.
On that note, I'd like to state the incredible number of benefits that would result from privatizing the atmosphere, just as we have done with the airwaves. Following much the policy as that for the rf spectrum, we would allow major corporations and others to license out portions of the atmosphere for substantial fees... fees large enough to make a significant budgetary impact. Who could turn up their nose at that, in these days of economic uncertainty? Think tens of billions of dollars, folks. Money that can be spent propping up our important federal pork barrel projects, like the $230 million dollar Georgia State Museum of Peanut Technology. But back to my main point... these licensees of the atmosphere would then have a stake in our precious air supply, and as a result of that would manage if carefully, something our corporations have honed to a veritable science. Likely they would design some sort of air tax, so that we only payed for what we used. Smokers and the flatulent would be forced to reimburse society for the air that they waste. No longer would freeloaders run around hyperventilating just to take more than their fair share... or if they did, they'd certainly be paying when the monthly air bill came in the mail.
We would be creating thousands of jobs too, air auditors and assessors, management and enforcement positions. The possibilities are endless, an entire sector of industry being born out of a single, ahead-of-its-time concept. It could possibly kickstart us out of this economic funk we've been suffering through.