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DirecTV takes on PirateDen.com
IgD writes "Pirate's Den is a DirecTV hacking website based in Canada. The site features a very busy chat forum where 'hobbyists' research and discuss ways of hacking satellite TV. The site makes money by selling advertisements and subscriptions to the chat forum. The owner claims all he is engaging in is free speech. He does not appear to directly market circumvention devices. DirectTV doesn't agree however. They apparently are demanding the owner close the site, transfer the domain and pay a settlement fee. Another interesting twist to all this is the fact that DirecTV is not legally able to market its services in Canada. You can read more about this legal battle at FreedomFight.ca."
So the game is afoot. I love it. Necessity breeds innovation, so it'll be fun to watch how Pirateden responds. Lets get it on!
3-Server OC-3 Linux Counter-Strike Cluster
www.rnp.ca
'hobbyists' research and discuss ways of hacking satellite TV
And they think police don't monitor the site? duh...
--
Why would DirecTV want the domain? They have no rights to it. Now who's the pirate?
Or are they just throwing salt in the ground so that nothing grows back? (Anyone get that vague reference?)
for its protectionist legislation that prevents DirecTV from legally selling its services in Canada, thus REQUIRING Canadians to act illegally to acquire the programming they clearly want.
Better yet, Canadian voters should elect less socialistic/paternalistic representatives. Just a thought.
Then they can miror the site and let unsuspecting people continute to use the site.
Then they'll sue verizon to tell them who they are.. ad nauseam
Honestly, this is not the best use of the internet that I can think of. Sites like this will only aid those people/companies that are trying to ban everything under the sun with stuff like the DMCA.
I don't think it matters that DirecTV can't market their stuff in Canada - the Australian courts have ruled that online material is published in the nation of the reader (google for the recent Joe Gutnick defamation case heard in Australia about an online article published by a US newspaper). If the US courts see it the same (or DirecTV takes 'em on down under), they probably won't stand a chance (that's assuming it goes to court, obviously).
Personally, I think that running a site like this (and making money off it, too) is pretty darn irresponsible of the guy running it. It's kinda like waving a red rag at a bull, only you're a little kid that's tied to a stake in the ground and the bull is more of a homocidal maniac with a penchant for child-slaughter.
The PowerPC includes for this purpose two instructions called SYNC and EIEIO.
I just don't get how intercepting a signal that is located in my own yard, using equiptment that I own, that would just go into the dirt anyway, could be considered theft. Cable theft I can understand. They have physical equiptment that they own that is used to get the signal directly to my tv. The satellite signal is going to be there whether I use it or not.
Seems like DirecTV should just hire a bunch of these people, they know what they're doing.
"Jerk store Jerry, jerk store... Jerk store!"
The site itself is a circumvention device. It's only purpose is to facilitate the distribution of specific information on illegal exploits of a proprietary network. Not only that, but jerko webmaster here is blatently profiting from such.
An open and shut case, just you watch.
There is also the obvious fact that this is conspiracy, in the strict legal sense, and there are ample laws in both jurisdictions, as well as treaty and international law in place to curtail such behaviour.
Let's all go out this afternoon and get a life.
Sure, maybe the comment at the end was a troll, but the first part I agree completely with.
What you forget it that the internet is the place where national sovereignty melts away.
Did you know that Direct TV cannot be bought in Canada due to law?
Direct TV in Canada?
There are only two sat companies in Canada recognized?
Canada doesn't recognize Direct TV
Here's another article
that explains the situation.
What you have is one country setting the laws for itself, but the internet crosses all national lines.
Instead of saying this is what the DMCA will be used for focus your efforts on the fact that the DMCA should be modified. Canada is doing us a favor.
So what exactly is a chat forum? Something like a car bicycle or a can bottle?
Fleur de Sel
Don't I have the right to decode the signals that they are sending into my yard? What if I want to see what these signals are doing to my body and family? I never asked them to send their signals into my yard.
You queried pirateden.com
- 0173
Registrant:
Rise Star (PIRATEDEN-DOM)
34-1150 North
Nanaimo, BC V9S 5L6
CA
Domain Name: PIRATEDEN.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Gray, J(JG7906) risestar@YAHOO.COM
Rising Star Comm.
31-60-1100 Princess
Royal
Nanaimo
BC
V9S5R5
CA
250-713
Record expires on 02-Feb-2005.
Record created on 03-Feb-1998.
Database last updated on 31-May-2003 11:38:51 EDT.
Domain servers in listed order:
DNS1.NISA.NET 207.194.212.8
DNS2.NISA.NET 207.194.212.9
My Slashdot submission was posted!!!!!!!
Come on, how can they defend their "free speech" and "fair use" rights if they openly call themselves "pirates"? That's like distributing a p2p sharing app called "kiddiefuckvidexchanger" and being surprised when the law comes around with arrest warrants.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
This guy and his seedy buisness are well known in email abuse groups
good job DirecTV, knocking em down one jerk at a time
In this turn of events, all that will win are the suits.
-- Multics
but in past cases where domain had to be transferred, was it not because the domain name itself violate someone's IP rights, i.e. registering VinceCarter.com or WarrenSapp.com and trying to make the individual/company/entity/whatever pay exhorbitant fees for the domain. I know the federal government can and does do this (force domain transfers in certain cases), but since when did owning the rights to a product give a company the same rights as law enforcement... yeah yeah yeah, I know, RIAA.. blah blah blah.. also.. Im looking at this [cira.ca rules for registering .ca domain names] and fail to see how Directnic can legally take over the domain anyway.... I could see how they could have a case for having the site shut down, but not much more... but then again I A N A L
DirecTV sues Slashdot.org under the DMCA for linking to an illegal site...
Go ahead. Laugh. I tells ya it just might happen!
Direct TV is hot on this and if what I have read is
correct, they have to be. It seems that their
encryption system is not all that hard to crack.
Much easier than DISH( ExpressVu).
Direct TV has and has had a running battle with
this, just another chapter. Sort of like the
spam blockers, its the game that counts.
...to have a location like a convention center or something where people can talk about whatever they like or specfically hacking? No.
Would it be illegal for this convention to charge an enterance fee? No.
Would it be illegal for the convention to charge companies a fee to advertise on it's walls? No.
Can an American company tell a Canadian convention center what it can or can not do? No.
The question then remains; does it matter weather this locations is physical?
Welcome to the land of the free...pay toll ahead...no photography...please open your bag...
It all comes down to the fact that if you're watchign their signals, they're not getting paid for it, and that causes a loss of profits. I don't know how their profits are doing, but if a company is starting to lose money, their first choice is to blame someone else and sue (SCO anyone?).
This is probably a gray area in the laws in the US. I'm sure some of the signals are copyrighted, so you're supposed to pay to use them. On the other hand, the signal's right there, so why not try to get at it? It's almost parallel to running Linux on the XBOX. It's there, why can't you do it? Because the company that created it doesn't want you to do it. That's why they want the DMCA.
The DMCA basically says that "if a company wants your money, they have a right to it", and here, DirectTV thinks they have a right to some money. Outside of the DMCA, however, I don't think this is well-definied in law, but IANAL.
On the other hand, don't go making a website devoted to cracking the signal. That's just asking for trouble. It'd be like if I started a website on how to pick car locks. It may be legal, but it may not be. It'd be different if they had made a name other than "Pirate's den", which is just asking for legal trouble.
There are A LOT of people cracking these cards for many people here on a regular basis. So many of us pirate DTV it doesn't feel wrong. Whether it is or not I could give a fuck...
I remember Black Sunday when all the cards went down. Since then it has been more difficult to keep cards up and running.
DTV should bring a legit service to our country (Some say our Gov't wouldn't let them in...which is understandable. The CBC was created to keep Canadians from becomming "too American"). I bet a lot of people who are tired of paying a lot of money to have their cards re-activated would turn to the legit service if it was a resonable price.
Unless of course the porno channels are pay-per-view, then DirectTV would surely loose all their suscribers to pirates.
The DMCA is not law in Canada, and thus it doesn't matter if it is a circumvention device.
- jdrake
I just don't get how intercepting a signal that is located in my own yard, using equiptment that I own, that would just go into the dirt anyway, could be considered theft. Cable theft I can understand. They have physical equiptment that they own that is used to get the signal directly to my tv. The satellite signal is going to be there whether I use it or not.
/sarcasm
I just don't get how intercepting a signal that is running through my own routers, using equiptment that I own, that just pass through as they would anyway, could be considered theft. Hacking the server I can understand. I have physical equiptment that I own that is used to get the signals directly. The data stream is going to be there whether I duplicate it or not.
Give me a break. You have as little right to hack satellite transmissions as you have to spy on military communications, cell phones, wireless keyboards, mouses and headphone, garage door openers, the EM emissions of my screen or anything else that happens to run across your airspace.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
If you need the perfect example of that, you need not look any further than the police crackdown on protesters of the 1998 APEC summit in Canada. The quick summary is that protesters were sitting on a road where the president of Indonesia would be driving through when the cops came up to them, told them to leave. Literally the next second (the video proves this), one Sgt. Stewart of the Royal Canadian Mounted Chimps pepper sprayed the entire crowd. Many of the protestors had to be hospitalized. It is truly one of the most disturbing police actions in Canada in recent memory.
My point is, if people who lawfully assemble and then are given no realistic opportunity to disband when the police/government decide that they don't like what they've seen (because of the economic advantages that would've come due to Indonesia's human rights abuses no doubt), and the subsequent inquiry into the matter is basically a cover-up exercise by the pseudodictatorship in Canada with no punishment for any of the RCMP in question, I doubt the courts in Canada will rule any differently in this case here.
Top that off with mandated minimums of Canadian programming content for each station by the CRTC, and you see that Canada really isn't the place for free speech at all.
In case others didn't know, DTV (aka Dave) recently shutdown 63 dealer sites in a huge bust. You can check out their own enforcement page at hackhu.com (a former info site). They are also suing end-users at an alarming rate based ONLY on shipping records for standard ISO smartcard devices. It has actually gotten pretty out of control with intimidation letters and complaints in the amount of $10,000. Lots of people don't even know they've been sued (many people have moved in the 2 years it's taken DTV to sue them). People are getting default judgements against them for the full amount request by DTV. Florida has been particularly hit hard with THOUSANDS of cases. I urge everyone to stay informed about this, because once again, they use the veil of the DMCA as justification for their efforts. Some of these people are being sued for buying a completely legitamate ISO7816 device that can be used for millions of other things than just DTV hacking. Check out http://www.legal-rights.org/ for more info on DTV legal info. I also have a forum section dedicated to the DTV legal battles with up to date lists of who has been sued and in what state. There is no discussion of hacking there.
forums.wumarkus.com
To anyone who has received an intimidation letter or summons, GOOD LUCK!
You seem to be forgetting that Canada among may other nations are signatories to international laws governing the RF spectrum. What can and can't be done. This is to keep conflict to a minimum and facilitate communications across boundaries. The fact of weither DirectTV has, or doesn't have a particular spectrum licensed to it in Canada is irrelivent. The question is what does the international laws that Canada agreed to say?
So
If a website like CERTs http://www.cert.org/
started using the information that these individuals have written, to inform sat/cable companies of what they have found, should that be illegal?
If the only difference is that CERT uses government dollars rather than advertisements, to foot the bill, and that it is run by american boys and girls in a university.
Does that give them special priviledges than most other folks who talk, or find about a hack?
Mabidex
I don't know what you're smoking, and IANAL, but Canada isn't like America when it comes to stuff like this.
If you look at the argument that DirecTV is trying to use to threaten the site, it doesn't have a leg to stand on (with respect to shutting down the site), even if the owner of the site himself has a Dish stealing signal (very likely). They can stop him from using a dish, but not hosting a discussion board.
Broadcasting this information, or talking about it isn't illegal. Otherwise news organizations wouldn't be able to talk about how a criminal may have, say committed a clever home invasion... that would be aiding and abetting some "potential" criminal who is consuming the news to steal ideas.
If they were smart, they would have just complained to the ISP to shut down the site. Many ISPs don't allow these types of discussion boards in their terms of service.
DirecTV is talking about applying some criminal laws in Canada that to those stealing signal. I don't think that DirecTV can get much from a civil case standpoint (unlike the US, I have yet to see a civil case to extract further penalty than the criminal punishments -- heck, OJ was found not guilty but still liable in civil court... why even bother having a criminal system?) DirecTV can't find any civil claim, since it's already illegal for Canadians to PAY them for programming. Hence, no lost revenues. Arguably, DirecTV can't really claim any psychological damage either (hehe), unless they can provide doctors' bills.
DirecTV does have a leg on identifying the so-called "anonymous" users and chasing them down one by one and getting them tossed in jail (unlikely) or having them fined heavily by the Canadian government (hehe, and none of this money would go to DirecTV, and I don't believe that DirecTV would be able recover any of their legal costs, which would be substantial). I think it's pretty unlikely for the Canadian government to want to spend money chasing down pirates of an American company that isn't really allowed to sell in Canada in the first place.
Ultimately, the crime of stealing the signal is very different from the intellectual masturbation of discussing how to steal it.
Ok, frankly i cant see how DirectTV is loosing money up here in canada. They dont sell a product up here for them to loose. It would prolly cost more for them to figure out a way to block their signal from getting onto canadian soil then anything else. It shouldnt be the responsability of a Canadian entity to stop americans from viewing the site. Does china shut down sites hosted in the states that talk bad about china? No, they setup a firewall to stop chinese citizens from accessing the site. American corp. doesnt like it? Maybe they should convince the 'FREE' ( HAH! ) states to setup a country wide firewall to stop citizens from accessing information on sites they deem unnacceptable. Just because its illegal in your country doesnt mean you have any jurisdiction in my country!
Yeah, but if Celine Dion came out and said she were ashamed that Jean Chretien came from Quebec, she'd be unlikely to be called Un-Canadian, have her CDs trampled by bulldozers, and receive death threats.
Our Prime Minister can strangle his own detractors, thank you. (I tried to find a link with the picture of him doing that, but couldn't... oh well)
Oh right. I'm going to sell my vote for access to DirecTV. As if there are absolutely no other issues to consider when electing a government.
Also, it's not illegal to acquire or use satellite signal receivers or dishes from the United States. It's illegal to sell them, and for a good reason. They don't provide any Canadian content and they don't provide Canadian commercials.
Why is this bad, you ask? Because the television industry is huge. It creates jobs, and employed people pay taxes. Taxes give us infrastructure, medicare and whatever else we need.
It's all about getting a piece of the pie.
They should have gotten a .ca domain or at least used a Canadian registrar. Network Solutions could be pressured in an American court to transfer the domain.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
"They are technically tresspassing by bombarding my property without my premission. "
Do you realize that technically everyone elses air is trespassing on your property. How about we put a stop to that and solve both societies, and your problem?
They have service so pathetic, they make the local
cable company, run out of Cletus and Cooter's
garage with speaker wire for media, look good.
In fact, their service is so incompetent, they
qualify for a guest appearance in a Monty Python
skit.
This box is dead, it has ceased to exist.
No sir, it's just taking a nap!
Also, their MPEG-2 compression is so blotchy it
looks more like low-bitrate MPEG-1.
I will never use DirecTV, ever again.
Beats me why anyone would want to steal it.
Might as well go steal manure from Farmer Browns
cattle. At least THAT would be worth something.
Let me get this straight.. Canadians can't pay for directv since it cannot be sold there. Hacking the signal causes no actual damage to directv or any of their legal subscribers. Since the hackers are unable to become customers, directv has not actually been materially damaged in any way. They have lost no money. On what grounds can they possibly sue this website in Canada?
this is a blatant case of freedom of speech. from mere browsing there is no illegal products being sold on that site.
wouldnt this be a worthy case for the EFF?
Aiding and abetting someone to theft (of service) is still i believe a criminal offence, same as cloned cards,cable cubes etc.
I know you are a troll but I'll nail you to the wall anyways...
I have smartcard readers and writers, about 20 smartcards and assorted smartcard software. So this makes me a criminal? I use them for developing login/logout systems for linux (as well as with ibuttons) but by your standard I'm a criminal that needs to get 6000 years in prison and fined 30 gajillion dollars.. oh an let a mass morderer get only 5 years probation.. he only murdered people but I have the potential of stealing 900 quadrillion in profits form every company on the planet and magically launch all the nuclear missles...
Ok I'm blowing it way up... but I'm making a point... electronics are not criminal. owning equipment IS NOT CRIMINAL and electronic crim is not an offense that is worse than murder yet people like you and the politicians believe so.
Knowlege is power, CEO's and Governments dont like knowlege in the hands of the general public.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It used to be "legal" to buy Direct TV in Canada several years ago. many peopel who winter six months of the year in Florida woudl simply bring thier systems back to home to Canada with them. Other people, often those who lived in the country where no cable TV was available, who drive into the US (approx: 90% of all Canadian live within 200 miles of the US boarder)and buy a setup, and start payments direclty off thier credit card. Everybody turned a blind eye, and while there was some hacking going on, it was just easier to pay for it out right. When the government in Canada made it illegal to buy Direct TV, thousands of Canadian with US satelite systems were screwed. Remember too, that the small dish systems came out int he USA about 3 years before a similar system was ready in Canada, so there was demand bu no supply. After "banning" Direct TV, that's when the hacking industry came out full bloom. the problem is, there are more hacked cards in New York City alone than in all of Canada, and if the hacking was going on only in Canada, Direct TV probally wouldn't care. But too many of the hackers make thier real money selling to the USA, which really PO's Direct TV (and right fully so). The interesting thing why many peopel get the US dish in Canada is for programming not available in Canada. For exmaple, the CRTC here in Canada willnto allow Fox News here - talk about censorship! Whatever you think of Fox news, the point i, we can watch Sex TV openly on local TV, but the O'Reilly report ot too dangerous for Candains to watch. Go figure? Oh yes, the other channel "banned" in Canada - Turner Classic Movies. :)
A site that DirecTV took over, www.hackhu.com better explains their intensions. Infact, DirecTV has take about 100 sites and made them anti-hacking sites like the one above.
Taken from http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/directv_vero/
ver y interesting, stuff.....read on
DIRECTV
DIRECTV® is the nation's #1 digital satellite entertainment service. Using the most advanced satellite technology, DIRECTV delivers access to more than 225 channels of television programming to homes and businesses that have proper satellite hardware, including a small satellite dish, a digital set-top receiver, and an access card. DIRECTV offers an incredible selection of movies, sports, music, special events and all your favorite television networks for every member of the family - all in the 100% digital-quality picture and sound for which DIRECTV is known.
What are access cards?
The access card is a plastic card approximately the size of a credit card that is distributed to customers together with the receiving equipment. Software contained in the access cards controls the receipt of DIRECTV programming. When a customer buys a satellite system with an access card from an authorized retailer, the customer is committing to subscribe to DIRECTV programming. After the purchase and installation of the equipment, the customer must contact DIRECTV to choose a programming package and to provide a method of payment. After the customer selects a package, DIRECTV will activate the access card, providing the customer with access to the selected programming and the ability to order and watch pay-per-view events. The access cards contained in the set-top satellite receivers are NON-TRANSFERABLE.
What are programmed or "pirate" access cards?
Access cards that have been reprogrammed or "pirated" allow people illegally to intercept and decrypt DIRECTV's signals and receive television programming without making any payments to DIRECTV. "Reprogramming" is done by illegally modifying the copyrighted software on the card to bypass DIRECTV's conditional access system and open all channels of programming, including pay-per-view movies and sports, which are only available legitimately after payment of a subscription or exhibition fee
What are bulk virgin access cards?
Bulk virgin access cards - that is, bulk quantities of access cards that have been stripped from DIRECTV's equipment - are sold to individuals and/or entities who illegally reprogram and resell them to people seeking unauthorized access to DIRECTV's signals. Sales of virgin access cards are in direct violation of the DIRECTV Customer Agreement, which indicates that these cards are non-transferable. Furthermore, there is no legitimate purpose for the bulk sales of access cards except to facilitate satellite piracy. Accordingly, sales of such cards interfere with DIRECTV's legitimate business expectation that purchasers of satellite systems will become subscribers of DIRECTV.
What are emulators, programmers and blockers?
These are all devices that enable people to modify access cards to steal DIRECTV's signals without paying for them. An emulator uses the capabilities of personal computers to mimic the functions of an access card. Emulators connect to computers running software that grants unauthorized access to channels. Programmers are devices that reprogram access cards to alter which channels are received. And blockers are devices that block attempts by DIRECTV to keep the integrity of its access cards intact.
What are unloopers?
Unloopers are devices used to "fix" or unloop pirate access cards that DIRECTV has attempted to diasble.
Why is it illegal to offer to sell, sell and use these cards and devices?
Federal and state laws protect satellite transmission providers such as DIRECTV and other copyright holders. Both criminal and civil lawsuits can be brought against violators of these laws. For example, one such law provides civil and criminal penalties for "any person who manufactures, assembles, modifies, imports, exports, sells or distributes any electronic, mechanical, or other device or equipment, knowing or having reason to know
Actually I suspect if Celine Dion came out and said something negative about Chretien the rest of the country would simply agree.
(Why is it, in my mind that he has only made good decisions in the last year or so.. now that he doesn't give a shit he makes more decisions for the right reasons... although, I still dislike him.
Original salting on Earth took place several billion years ago when a salt water pond dried up.
Original salting of soil ANYWHERE undoubtedly took place on some other planet; and possibly in another universe if anyone ever manages to prove other universes exist and if so define a temporal relationship to this one.
But for a short answer I go with "Carthage" as the intended reference.
" No it isn't. As soon as I start accessing their network I am directly impacting their network and their resourses, not to mention accessing information which is more than likely private and confidential. What I am talking about is intercepting TV. And there is no impact to their resources when I tap in."
So basically your argument is the same as others. If a direct cause and effect can be shown you might, might stop what you're doing. If the line between cause (watching pay TV for free) and effect (DirectTV's financial resources) is not immediate then you have done no wrong.
The funny thing about people who use this line of logic is that they assume that history hasn't recorded any examples of were people have conducted an action (DDT) that they thought was OK at the time, that was latter[1] shown to have a negative impact (Fragile bird eggshells lead to reduced bird populations). And lets not mention Thalidomide. Face it humans are lousy when it comes to forseeing the consequences of their actions. Or even worse they do and don't care (SCO). Victim? What victim, They looked into the future and didn't see any?
[1] Note that "latter" is sometimes after the original instigators have all passed away.
people will be scared of this?
People in the US and canada are willfully blind to simple reality.
All you have to do is look closely at the black rights movement in the USA. Everyone will see Martin Luther King, and all that wonderfull Ghandi like BS. But what they neglect to see why the US was willing the let King win, and that was because of the militant black movement and Malcolm X. They were the gun to the head of america if america wouldn't play fair. When too many heads got knocked in, Malcolm X got more recruits. If US powers hadn't eased off it might have become another civil war.
If you want to have an official front of peacefull protest, the powers that be have to know that theres an iron fist behind the kid gloves.
Though I don't think I have a right to Bell or Stars signals even though they come down on my property thats because the Canadian Government has licensed them. I get a better education and health care because of them. Same is true with cell towers and radio stations. True the go through my airspace but they contribute to our social programs. DirecTV doesn't though. In fact I think they should be fined on behave of everyone in Canada. Through out the case and fine them millions of dollars for not keeping there signals out of our country.
Living in Canada my whole life, I have to correct you. We're not a "pseudodictatorship" as you put it... we're a FRIENDLY dictatorship. :)
. bush.ap/index.html
As for free speech... you're picking a single instance that happened 5 years ago. I agree, it's a grotesque violation of civil liberties, and we've never been able to shake the shame. However, saying that Canada is not the place for free speech... well, I can't diagree with you more. The fact I can watch the CBC at any time of day and see boobs, hear cussing, showing of the middle finger etc (in essence, no censorship), as well as on other canadian stations such as Bravo, this to me proves that Canada IS a place of freedom of speech.
And hey, if we're going to decide whether or not a country has free speech or not based on a single instance, the states is a goldmine of exmples. How about in December of 2002 when a man was arrested for making a joke about how God will speak to the world with a "Burning Bush" (I think it's witty...)? Is that not stifling free speach as well? My bookmark to this article is no longer working, but it was here: http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/12/06/burning
I'm not much for cnn, but I saw this story on several newsites back in december...
So, the moral of the story is, don't bother getting into this mess (I'm glad I never did), because the game will be over soon.
There may be ample laws in both jurisdictions, but so far, the Canadian government has turned a blind eye to stealing American signals.
First, if there are laws then its not the government but the police / justice department per say that is turning a blind eye, and not the government as a whole.
If the Govenrment does not care, even if there is a law does it matter if it is technically illegal. We have all sort of laws that are not enforced and taken out eventually. Here it was illegal to be in a park before 7 and people ride their bikes every day. They only took it out recently but it was never enforced. If a law is broad stupid and never enforced or known of and police dont give a damn about it; having better things to do like our way low violent crime rate, then Kudo's.
Frankly I find it scary that corperations have so much say in making laws down in the states. We dont have as big of a lobby here. We are also forcing transperancy on all political donations and restricting contribution on donations. Thats probobly why we dont have DMCA or some other stupid laws here in the first place. Our government seems big on transparancy and according to our Freedom of Information Privacy Act we can request almost any information we want from our govenment(read it if you want to know what we can not request for privacy / legal / security reasons, but the attitude is there has to be a good reason for us not being able to request the info). I am big on keeping an eye on it even if I really cant do lots about what they are doing , irresponsible spending etc. We call them to task on stuff all the time.
What your suggesting here is what anti-mondialist acitivists are fighting against. Countries are sovereigns on their territories. DirectTV is not allowed to do direct business in Canada, but is still spreading its signal all over Canada. Canadians can legally decode DirectTV signal by any means, like they can use decss to watch dvds. Canada is not requiring their citizen to act illegally. DirectTV has no rights in Canada.
Canadian satellite television companies wants to control their local market, that's why they're also at war along with DirectTV. When those canadian companies will show they can protect their signals by legal and technological means, then DirectTV might want to do business with those canadian companies (read: impose its business). In the meanwhile, DirectTV is too happy doing his imperialist job by invading Canada with U.S. television. DirectTV is the M$ of satellite television.
Uh, OK, DAVE, whatever you say.
Oh should I say Richard Yarmuth? Or Scott Wilsdon?
Let's not talk about how you are filing illegal, frivilous lawsuits based on evidence that you know IN ADVANCE you have absolutely ZERO chance of winning in a court of law. I guess it's ok for you to clearly break the law (read the prior sentence: doing such is ILLEGAL) though.
Idiot. Don't you have anything better to do than spread your BS propoganda???
Because the original poster is too ignorant to realise that there is a difference between intercepting a signal and actual theft. It's like the difference between copyright violation and actual theft.
You're trying to preach an ethereal morality to a crowd that can apply logic to a situation and determine their own course of action.
Just because you believe something is wrong, doesn't make it so. It is merely your opinion.
First of all, I too have a dual philosophy about natural rights. I believe that when a government upholds natural rights, it does the best for all involved.
That said, when a government violates natural rights, it begins to decompose. Now, disobeying those unnatural laws helps the decomposition of the government along. Obeying them *doesn't* help the decomposition along. So I still think it's better to obey them.
But a very valid discussion [that will have no bearing on the laws we have; I am a realist too] is whether it is best overall for society if the government "licenses" particular frequencies.
Indeed, it is a valid question "what can property be", entirely. That should be determined both on the basis of natural law [start by watching animals], common law, written laws today, and so on. Then when you have all the differences, ask why they are different, and what the effects of each will be.
once DTV shuts these people down there will be nothing to worry about
Funny how the media people only tout the right of free speech when it benefits THEM.. if it doesnt, or is against them even in the slightest, then they cry foul..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You can buy Canadian satellite/ receiver packages for the US. The dealer basically takes US$, converts to Cd$, and pays from a Canadian address and checking account for you. You can't plug the receiver into the telephone line, of course.
The advantage? Sports, especially Olympic coverage. Canadian announcers just broadcast the games without all the anchor cut-ins and opinionating. It's nice to be able to watch a complete hockey game, the American broadcasters just plain suck.
And the best thing of all, no Bob Costas! Yeah!
FYI this guy is making over 200k per year for his so called members and has been since about 1997, they sure arent paying for the looks of the site and in fact are paying for the info that allows them free tv, oh and btw the way this site isnt just for Canadians and is frequented by 90% americans.
Plain and simple he is helping americans to *steal* DirecTV's signal with the content of his site and he will be going down sooner than later along with all the other pirates such as Scullion and that Charles guy who have thought all along they were above the law.
Nice troll, dude.
Your insightful reply did not contain the correct use of commonly used sentence punctuation. Don't be emberassed, just stop posting lame replies to spelling mistakes - when you clearly need to go back to the eighth grade and/or study your old Reader Rabbit cd's.
e lling
http://www.advicemeant.com/flame/04psych.shtml#Sp
#474 Spelling flame: A posting ostentatiously correcting a previous article's spelling as a way of casting scorn on the author, instead of actually responding to that point. Of course, people who are more than usually slovenly spellers are prone to think any correction is a spelling flame. Of such trivia wars are made. Spelling flames often contain spelling errors. Don't criticise typos or spelling mistakes - the rule is you lose by default. Everyone makes them - some more than others - and it really is a pathetic jibe. Flame is about content, not the structure of the post.
Jesus Christ, what the fuck are you on?
From the site:
H Card Status: Shutdown | Music Channels Only
HU Card Status: Hacked | Activation, 3M, Emulation Working
P4 Status: Currently Unhacked | Subscription Only
I received my P4 cards last October, and I'm assuming most others have received theirs as well... why not just turn off the HU cards?
Canadian RadioCommunications Act
9. (1) No person shall
(c) decode an encrypted subscription programming signal or encrypted network feed otherwise than under and in accordance with an authorization from the lawful distributor of the signal or feed;
10. (1) Every person who
(b) without lawful excuse, manufactures, imports, distributes, leases, offers for sale, sells, installs, modifies, operates or possesses any equipment or device, or any component thereof, under circumstances that give rise to a reasonable inference that the equipment, device or component has been used, or is or was intended to be used, for the purpose of contravening section 9,
(2.1) Every person who contravenes paragraph 9(1)(c) or (d) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction and is liable, in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or to both, or, in the case of a corporation, to a fine not exceeding twenty-five thousand dollars.
Exception
(2.3) No person who decodes an encrypted subscription programming signal in contravention of paragraph 9(1)(c) shall be convicted of an offence under that paragraph if the lawful distributor had the lawful right to make the signal available, on payment of a subscription fee or other charge, to persons in the area where the signal was decoded but had not made the signal readily available to those persons.
May I direct your attention to the word LAWFUL. In every court case in Canada save one, distributors of DTV receivers, cards, etc. won handily because their activities involved a service that has no lawful distributor in Canada. DTV is not licensed in Canada and never will be due to our strict Canadian content laws (some call it censorship but what it really amounts to is a quota of domestic TV over foreign broadcasts, the content is not at issue per se).
Now, the Supreme Court threw a curve ball when it ruled in April 2002 that the law provided a blanket prohibition on decoding signals from ANY source. Prior to this the law was in favor or decoding signals from someone other than a lawful source as every court decision came down in favor of the satellite dealers, so the decision was a bit of surprise. The ruling was limited in scope to the communications act itself not the act under the Charter of Rights, our version of the Bill of Rights, and that issue remains to be ruled on.
So, I would submit that while the decoding of DTV in Canada is technically illegal (for the time being pending the constitutional outcome) talking about decoding a signal is a far different matter. Contrary to what anyone here has said, Canada has very strong free speech protections. Under our Charter of Rights any interference with your right to free speech must be justified and the onus is on the government to prove that its intentions are not contrary to a "free and democratic society", limited to the dimishment of certain act, proportional, etc. The bar is quite high. DTV starts out in a losing position since by the interpretation of our Charter by the Supreme Court, Pirate's Den is protected speech, in fact all speech is protected. If you read our Supreme Court decisions they say this in pretty much plain english. Of course I am not a lawyer, but even a lay person can read a court decision and understand what they are saying. We shall see...
because you've paid for all the decryption hardware and card programmers, and go to the trouble of buying a new card and reprogramming it when they change their encryption. You're perfectly willing to pay for it, you just don't want to pay them as much as they're asking for it. It clearly has value to you, or you wouldn't go to the trouble of trying to decrypt it.
George Orwel got it wrong, the big brother problem is corporate america (microsoft, sco, directv, (used to be ibm a long time ago..)).
These big institutions have realized that intellectual property and the free exchange of ideas can now be controlled for profit motive. What better way that control what you can say in open, free forums. It used to be that if a sat signal dropped out of the sky and landed on your property, then it was yours to do with whatever you wanted, same with software running on your computer..now look at the mess of DRM corporate america has got us into, even mirosoft and SCO trying to make open software illegal and scare off anybody from trying to use it...the end result of all this will be brain implants that extract your money, labour (physical, itellectual (ideas)), monitor your thoughts and essentially control you during your whole existance. Human nature has not changed, just the use and application of technology to control you and make a profit doing it..just look at medicin in the US, it's got 40 million people without affordable insurance, that's a direct result of corporate pressure on the goverment to make it so..same here with directv and their pressure to make free speech illegal by simple means of threat of legal action (probabbly more legal pressure on goverments to follow). This current situation has more probably to do with directv's current (new) owners trying to get bigger cash grabs out of the market.
You're perfectly willing to pay for it, you just don't want to pay them as much as they're asking for it
Or you can't legally pay for it because of your country's content laws forbid Canadians from buying the service.
Ah, yes, the old "let's redefine 'theft' to mean something so narrow that the word itself becomes useless" trick.
Theft means taking something without permission. That's all. Whether it's "intercepting a signal" or something else. If you take it without permission, it's theft, and it's wrong.
And I'm not trying to preach morality at all. I'm merely pointing out that there is some, and that whoever modded the original post flamebait is apparently ignorant of it.
Morality's an absolute. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. There's no "opinion" about it.
Yeah, sure, whatever. Fucking pirates.
...in hacking the receiver rather than the card.
:-)
Think about it for a moment and you'll see I'm right.
>DTV can detect this condition and send a technician to "check" on the setup, just as cable companies do when they see an unfiltered pirate box on the line.
??? You mean everyone with DTV will be fitted with DirecWay? WOW! That's almost worth paying for (not).
>So, the moral of the story is, don't bother getting into this mess (I'm glad I never did), because the game will be over soon.
LOL. Thanks Dave! With the recent illegal dissemination of information about the P4 card, it won't be long at all.
All things considered, since I got into this game 3 years ago, by doing both of the US services at the same time, I haven't had a single dark day. Ever. And I never expect to. With some of the recent hacking stuff, even the upstream providers are shitting their pants (Oh, I love those 4:2:2 feeds. Please "protect" them with Nagravision! I'm so worried!).
I can't wait to see the hackers bust into this card. If it comes down to it, NDS is so pissed at DTV, they'll help the hackers if that's what it takes to make DTV look silly.
I bought a card reader a couple years ago, farted around with it, looked at some of the code on my access card, lost interest & threw it in a drawer. I might be lazy, but It looked like too much of a pain in the ass to do anything worthwhile with it. I never considered myself a signal thief- I've been a DTV subscriber for nearly two years- I pay my bill on time, usually buy a couple ppv's each month. I received my second threat letter from DTV yesterday, complete with a copy of court docs. I have 10 days from the 27th to respond. The word is that you can do nothing and get nailed with a $10k default judgment, call the phone number on the letter and settle for 3 payments totaling $3500, or fight it in court. I looked around and found that most people are saying that they are paying these DTV assholes the $3500. I intend to fight it to the bitter end- From what I hear, this will cost me around $300-$500 in liar fees up front, with God knows how much later. I've got the cash and intend to not be an easy mark. I'm also making a miniscule gesture and moving to cable or dish network- Doesn't hurt DTV in the least, but it makes *me* feel better :-). I wish there *was* something that I *could* do (uuummmm...within the boundaries of state and federal law, of course...) that would produce, in the correct persons, the the feelings of my fist slowly rotating in their asses.
This is the biggest piece of BS that DTV is dong and the DMCA allows this. People who bought a device over the net, mainly smart card readers which are perfectly legal are receiving letters from DTV and demanding money for this. If you dont reply they threaten with taking your to court. Well, umm if i buy a device over the net how do you know i used this device to steal/decode/decrypt your signal? Dont you have to prove I did this, buying something doesnt prove anything? Its like saying you own a CDR and you used to to copy/steal software so you should pay me X amount.. WTF, man the DCMA really allows for some evil stuff to happen to end users. beaware! :/
Pocket Girls. Mobile Adult Mini Mags for your Phone.
The P4 hack already exists and is being sold by employees of DTV. A friend of mine has already been offered it. The underground isn't in Canada, it's in Direct TV's office.
Having seen large lots of virgin P4 cards go across dssauctions.com at $150 apiece, I tend to believe the story.
2) On a DTV system you need to crack a 56 bit DES key every 8 seconds (yes, they send a new CWP every 4th i-frame). Think you can do that?
If it's in the air, it's out. There's no way you can honestly enforce this, at least not in Canada. Why? It's illegal for them to broadcast in Canada (for whatever reason); Canadian judges have ruled that it's not illegal to decode these signals since they don't offer them.
If your phone is hardwired and you make the effort to ensure it's fine, then police need a warrant to tap it. If you are using a cell phone, they don't. If you leave your curtains open, it's not illegal for the police to look in. It is illegal for them to use alternate imaging equipment which views wavelengths that'll pass through most visible-light opaque material, as was ruled.
Once again: if you are broadcasting a signal of some kind, or emiting reflected waves that you are not taking the effort to not transmit via curtains or using wires, you have no legal equivalnce of wired security, and are doing so at your own risk. Due dilligence is important.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
"Before you say a quick 'no', be aware of the recent decision by the German courts that eBay.com, despite being an American company, is subject to German law (hence the removal of their nazi paraphanelia)."
Uh, no, that was France. Plus, if you didn't know, eBay avoided any legal problems.
Guess what: US companies aren't subject to German laws. If people order shit that's illegal, the German post office is supposed to stop it. And, because they're nice, those companies (as you read in the article) will try and follow those rules. But it's not a legal requirement.
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
"So, the moral of the story is, don't bother getting into this mess (I'm glad I never did), because the game will be over soon."
Assuming Satellite TV is becoming a money loser because of piracy, I recommend DirectTV close up shop. What will this accomplish? Well one it will stem the loss of money. The entire pirate chain will be stuck with their investment in hacking equipment. Everyone else from "your signal fell in my backyard" Canadians, to "your signal is my God-given right" Americans will of course lose as well. Can't "enjoy" what is no longer there. As the computer in WarGames found out, sometimes the best action is to not even play the game. I recommend in the future to move to a closed system i.e Cable. The moral is that humanity is very good at ruining a good thing through selfishness.i.e from your environment on down. This process shouldn't be stopped. Pain be whatever it's form appears to be the ONLY thing (reason apparently isn't) that is understood. So be it.
You want to "intercept that signal", convert it to 'lectricity, and run a light bulb with the power? Have at it. You want to look at the pretty encrypted waveforms on a 'scope? Have fun.
You break the encryption so you can watch the signal for free? That's theft.
What if I use your name and social security number to obtain credit? I haven't used any of your resources, but I can certainly do damage to your credit rating.
It's not "applying logic" that you're doing. It's rationalizing.
Yes, they needed a licence in order to be able to broadcast, but I had the freedom to listen to that frequency before the company ever existed.
You Had that freedom. Your government sold that frequency to DirecTV, just as it sold other frequencies to other companies (mobile phone operators, etc) for various purposes. It's not like you're not benefitting from that sale is it?
If you don't like the situation, address the issue with your government. Don't try and justify signal theft* by using that "hey, it's out there so why can't I do what I like with the signal?" line. Because if you go down that route, you're accepting that your government (and anyone else for that matter) is just as entitled to spy on your communications using Echelon and other technologies.
Do you really want that for your phone conversations and internet traffic? No, I don't think so.
See where that slippery slope goes?
(*Or whatever you want to call it. I use the term signal theft because it's clearly understood, not because I want to label people as thieves.)
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
It is hard to believe that both Trailer Part Boys, and The Osbornes (both air around 10pm various days) are censored in the US and not in Canada. But Canada and the US use drasticaly different models for operation.
.ca address, it was purchased for the term from 1998-2005. Prior to November 2000, there would have been no way for him to obtain a .ca address, for the University of British Columbia's policy for assigning .xx.ca (where xx is the provincial abbreviation) were quite strict, and only for educational institutes (elementary, secondary, and post-secondary), and for firmly established Canadian businesses. (November was a great month for those who wanted to finally purchase a .ca address (or more to re-sell))
Several points of interest is the Canadian legal system. It is not in any means like that of the US. Canadian laws are divided into the morphing commonlaws of the provinces, and the more or less static federal chartered rights. It is up to the judge at hand to decide whether to honour a commonlaw or not, or to decide the case entirely on chartered rights (like freedom of speech) if they are wary of contradictory laws in place depending on province [canadian laws are pseudo-laws, and often come and go, or are ignored by courts]. Because of this any prior judge ruling at any court level is an isolated case which ideally is not to be taken into account in the proceding of any other case. The American mindset that a court ruling will set precidence for use in future cases just doesn't apply as it does in American courts.
If the fact that the website has not set up its own access rights to block the US based on the IP numbers assigned to the US (easily done to provide region control), and then under traditional Canadian legal practice, that will be considered an international case where only proper International Law will be considered, and Canadian Law at the discretion of the court.
Another big blow for the Canadian legal system is that there are no high payouts. The most you can usually get are the associated fines for the charge at hand, and even then, courts often limit that. [General practise for courts to limit any liability to less than CDN$10,000 from individuals, $100,000 from businesses] In short, our courts are for putting criminals away, and not for making money (in small claims, and other levels, if you sue, and lose, you must pay the legal fees that were incurred by the defendant for arguing a false claim, and depending on the person, expect to see a defament[sic?] of character case right back at them (CDN$150000))
If this were entirely a Canadian matter, there would be nothing against it. Decryption is not illegal. You can take classes at University to learn how to decrypt various signals. In the Canadian legal mindset, the fault is your own for not encrypting it well enough, and to be openly broadcasting it to people you don't want peering in. DirecTV licensed use of a particular frequency in the US - the use of this frequency is unregulated in Canada and they have no more claim to it than someone in their garage, provided they follow the CRTC provisions on frequency usage and range. DirecTV cannot even market to Canadians unless they conform to 60% Canadian content on all channels they offer, and black out commercials selling or depicting various items which are illegal in Canada as well (Love watching those little music montages for 30 seconds over a blanked US commercial)
As far as current Canadian politics go (gotta love Cretien), I can see no reason for the Canadian government to even cooperate with DTV's wishes and force him to appear in an American court. They would probably say that this is a Canadian citizen, freely speaking via equipment operating on Canadian soil. This will be a difficult case for DTV.
Speaking on the many points as to why pirateden.com didn't just get a
As for the for freedom of speech, Canada does value its citizens personal libe
If you need the perfect example of that, you need not look any further than the National Guard crackdown on protesters of the Vietnam war at Kent State. The quick summary is that the national guard opened fire on a group of unarmed people who were simply excersising their constitutional rights, and killed four of them. It is truly one of the most disturbing police actions in America.
My point is, if people who lawfully assemble and then are given no realistic opportunity to disband when the police/government decide that they don't like what they've seen (because of the economic advantages that would've come due to Vietnam's human rights abuses no doubt), and the subsequent inquiry into the matter is basically a cover-up exercise by the pseudodictatorship in America with no punishment for any of the National Guardsmen in question, I doubt the courts in America will rule any differently in this case here.
Top that off with a restrictions of which body parts can appear, or which words can be spoken in television programs by the FCC, and you see that America really isn't the place for free speech at all.
Has Slashdot sunk so low that saying stealing is wrong is now an invitation to fight
He's not saying "stealing is wrong" - he's saying "X is stealing", when X is most definitely not stealing.
The signals are in the public domain. How is it "stealing" to use something in the public domain?
Seems that nobody has mentioned this, and this post may be seen only by me, but when canadians hack the US satellite signal, the only one who loses out is Canada itself. These people obviously will not buy cable or canadian satellite, or if they do, they will buy vastly less than they would have (common sense). Therefore, canadian companies lose out, which would be the reason I would try to use if I were trying to make it against the law in Canada (so northern brothers, be on the look).
Another reason to make this illegal though, is forward thinking. In the future, it probably will be possible to intercept almost any wire wirelessly, i.e. reading the very tiny emissions from wires themselves. When this happens, do we want it legal to watch, read, and listen to everything we do? Hmm, maybe I should invest in lead houses, could come in handy...
Posted by yintercept - "...science...[is] the study of the 'divine creation.' "
How exactly do these receivers communicate back to DirecTV if they think something is wrong or it "flags" the bit rate of the emulator, I tend to think this is impossible unless you still plug in the phone line, and if your using a modified DTV box in the first place, why would you plug it in anyway?
We can already do this, and we call it Wardriving
"Decryption is not illegal. You can take classes at University to learn how to decrypt various signals. "
You do realize that such a blanket statement wouldn't fly in a court of law. For example I can learn how to pick locks as part of being a locksmith, but I can't use such to break into people's homes and steal their possesions.
The law may say that you can learn about decryption but it also says what you can, and can't do with that knowledge.
"In the Canadian legal mindset, the fault is your own for not encrypting it well enough, and to be openly broadcasting it to people you don't want peering in."
Lovely loophole. Wonder how the Canadian Military would feel about that if one of their citizens excercised their "freedom to decrypt", and profitted in some manner.
Does the same work for home-grown terrorist, or other crimminal organizations?
But your honor, it's all the victims fault. There front door was openly visable, and they only had a MasterLock (wich I learned how to pick at the University) instead of the superuber lock (I was out sick that day).
He He as the old joke goes: How do you know there's intelligent life in the universe? It hasn't come here.
this country is going to hell
The signals are in the public domain.
Wrong. Nothing is in the public domain unless (1) the owner of that thing explicity puts it in the public domain, or (2) the government seizes that thing and puts it in the public domain.
...that started Aplhastar, where they?
With all of this said, in actuality Canada is doing us a huge favor.
What are you talking about. Have you ever heard of something called free speech?? Next time why try reading the article twice before you comment on something and maybe you might comprehend it better.
Ok, closing piratesden I think that is purely an act of greed, It is freedom of speech, they do not distrubute any tools required to hack dtv. Also, Look 2 years back when hacking dtv in canada was legal, Directv wasent complaining hell, they couldent have subscribers in canada but were making money off the ones who had to pay for their receivers to hack the stream, It was all bell expressview ( greedy people who had to mess everything up ) I guess 250 billion dollers or what ever they make wasent enough for them, they had to start a court case against hacking dtv in canada. So if you want to get mad at somebody get mad at them, Not directv, as it was not them who started this war in the first place, mabye if bev wasent filled with the crappiest shit iv ever seen in my life i would actully consider paying for it, who the hell wants to watch a movie that you could of seen 2 months ago rented at store for a 10th of the price they want, and not to mention watch it the 10 million times possible since they change there movies about once every month, for that third post or what ever it was who said that hacking the p4 and p4.5 was going to be impossible, buddy youv havent been reading enough if you think that, there are 10x more secure things then that, that have been cracked and publicy distrubuted, it is only a matter of time before that is cracked as well, directv, and bell expressview are going to have to face the fact that there is no stopping piracy, if they want to charge rediculous prices for such crappy programming, I can go on for ever but i'm sure iv already put you all to sleep with my angry ramblings so il shut up now.
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